The Eric Metaxas Show - Dr. Frank Turek

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

Apologist and author Dr. Frank Turek returns to answer the big questions and shares his latest column

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. We'll get you from point A to point B. But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own. But if you'll wait right here in just about two minutes, the bus to point C will be coming right by. And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the airways, Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Today is what, the 19th?

I always have to, you know, orient myself. December 19th, I believe Thursday? Correct. Okay. So, Chris, if I'm ever wrong about the date or just feel free to correct me because it's vital information. Also vital information to whom will I be talking today? Today, in the next segment, we have a special treat. Frank Turek. Frank Turek is, I'll say this when he comes on, but I'll say. it now. He's one of the premier Christian apologists of our time. He's amazing. And he's going to say some stuff. I promise you in the next couple of segments, he's going to say some stuff that's going to shock you. You're going to say, what? I have never heard that before. Can that be right? I promise you. Buckle your seatbelts. So that's in our one today, my dear friend, my dear friend, Frank Turrick. he's amazing. You need to just know about him and follow him.

He's a huge resource to strengthen you in your faith. Amazing. In our two, we're going to talk to Todd Blyleven. I thought we were going to air that yesterday. Todd Blyleven was at the horrific Las Vegas shooting, which was, I don't know how many years ago this is now, eight years ago, seven years ago, seven years ago, something like that, horrifying. He was in the midst of this, like in a war zone, carrying wounded people, carrying dying people,

watching them die, dealing with their wounds. You're just not going to believe it. So we have him coming up in our two. Tremendous program. In the weeks ahead, as we get into the holidays, we're going to do some Socrates in the city encores. I am tomorrow and Saturday at Amfest in Phoenix. And I'm going to be recording all kinds of people. So we're playing that stuff in the weeks ahead.

I want to remind you, we are doing a campaign with Christian Solidarity International. They literally free slaves. There are enslaved people in Sudan, hard for us to comprehend in our world. But in a world of radical Islam, actual slavery is a thing. They typically have enslaved Christians. So it's up to us Christians in the Free West who know that slavery is evil to do what we can.

So what can we do? Well, CSI has boots on the ground. They have relationships in that world. of the world, which they have created over decades, folks, over decades. And every year, depending on how much money is raised, they have the ability to go into these areas and free a number of slaves. What they need from us is some money. $250 is enough money to free a slave and to set that person up in a life of freedom. There are many women and children that are enslaved. There are many children that have grown into a life, been born into a life of slavery. Amazing, folks, that this is real,

but more amazing that we get to do something about it. What a wonderful opportunity. So I exhort you by the grace of God that we get to do this. I exhort you to take advantage of this. The website is metaxistalkis talk.com. Suzanne and I have pledged $5,000 this year, and every $250 frees a slave. So every $1,000 frees four slaves and set them up in a life of slavery. So a gift of $5,000 frees 20 slaves. The goal that we've been given by CSI, is 676 slaves.

That's based on previous years, and they've come to us asking us to do that. We're a very long way from that. So we hope that you, like Suzanne and me, will leap up now because we need the help now. The website I mentioned is metaxis talk.com. you'll see at the website if you click on metaxis talk.com right at the top of the pages a banner and it gives you all kinds of options and this you know it doesn't matter where you

are in life you do what you can some people prefer to say you know we're going to do this but we're going to we're going to give monthly and that's more affordable for us um so you can give a little bit monthly. If you can give $250 that frees a slave, and I keep saying for Christmas, why not do that in somebody's name and say, in your name, we didn't know what to get you. So here's what we did. We did this in your name. And so every $250 freeze a slave. I also want to give you the phone number. The website is metaxis talk.com. The banner is right at the top of the page and it'll walk you through it. But the phone number, if you prefer to call, and I know for a lot of you, that's just easier. You can talk to someone. You can call CSI at 888 253,

3522. That's 888 253, 3522, 888, 2522, 888, 2523, 8523, 253, 3523, 3522. 888, 2523, 3522, or go to metaxisistock.com. It's an opportunity to put your faith into action. And I've been talking about it over the weeks past, but it's just amazing to me that we get to live out our faith. In many cases, people would say there's nothing you can do, pray. That's real. But when you can do something, the Lord wants us to do something. He wants us to take action when we can and not merely to pray. The reason I wrote my book Letter to the American Church and my book, Religinalist Christianity, is because I see that a lot of lot of us have some bad ideas about what it is to have faith, and it relates to the Bonhofer story,

we're supposed to live out our faith. Obviously, we're supposed to pray, but not merely to pray if God gives us an opportunity to do something. If he gives us an opportunity to do something, we need to do something. So it was Christians who led the political battle against the slave trade in the British Empire with William Woborce in the lead. They led a political battle. They didn't just pray. They prayed. And they acted political. there are many times we can pray and act. In this case, it's not political, but it's financial. So the number is 888-253-3522.

The website is metaxis talk.com. I hope that everybody who listens to the program will feel the burden to do something. And again, folks, maybe it's give $5 a month. You go to the website where it says metaxis talk.com, the banner comes up. When you click on it, it gives you all these different options. But anybody can do, everybody can do something. And I hope that you will do something. Tell your friends about it.

I often think people often say, what can I do? This is something you can do. There are other things you can do. but if you're at a loss for what do I do, this is something we want to give to you to do. As I said, Suzanne and I are giving this year. And I feel that when it's as stark as there are people in slavery and I can do something about it, it's hard not to do something about it. And I hope you feel that.

I hope that it's hard not to do something about it when you know that you can do something about it. and when you think how far our American dollars go, it's shocking that it would only be $250 to free somebody from slavery and set them up in a life of freedom. So whatever fraction of that you can do, whatever multiple of that you can do, please do it. MetaxistalkisTalk.com. That's the easiest way.

You'll see the banner at the top of the page. But please give generously. They need our help. CSI is utterly reputable. It's why we partner with them every single year. And we do this to God's glory. So give as you can metaxistalks talk.com. Folks, I've got to be realistic about my diet in December.

It's got to be the worst month of the year in terms of eating. No matter what you do, you're inevitably going to find yourself eating things, treats, meats, dishes, leaving very little room for the right stuff. But I will take balance of nature every single day. Balance of nature is made from whole fruit and veggie ingredients. And I will not skip taking those daily supplements. It's the one thing I'll get right because feeling good is important to me, especially in December. Join me in pushing back against the dreaded December diet crash.

You can do that by getting Balance of Nature today. Use my discount code Eric and sign up as a new customer to get 35% off plus free shipping and their money back guarantee. It's an awesome December discount, but you have to use my discount code Eric. Call them at 800 2468-751 and use discount code Eric or order online at balance of nature.com. Use discount code Eric to get 35. percent off plus free shipping balance of nature. 800 24668-751 use code Eric. Hey, this is Eric Mettaxas. For years I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993. Nutrametics offers a variety of health bundles.

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Folks, welcome back. I am excited. I don't care what you say. I am excited. Why am I excited? Well, because I get to talk to my friend Frank Turek. Frank Turek, before I bring him on, because I don't want to embarrass people when the camera's on them, he is one of the premier Christian apologists of our time, putting it mildly, absolutely amazing. I've privileged to call him friend. Frank Turek, welcome back. The great Eric Metaxus, you know, you sound like a megachurch pastor when you say, I'm excited. They always say that. Whenever they start the service, it's always, I'm excited. Why don't they ever say, look, I'm just okay today? Or I'm kind of depressed. I got to I got to talk to this guy today.

Well, I am often depressed or just okay, but I don't, so I don't say I'm thrilled if, if I'm not actually thrilled. I'm actually thrilled. Can I, can you blame me? I'm thrilled. Yeah. You don't look thrilled. Come on.

I don't look thrilled. I'm a little under the weather. Okay. If you're forcing me to be honest, I'm a little under the weather. You need both. I'm a little hungover. Just kidding. No, I, I, um, I am a little tired.

I hadn't been, you know, I try to work out with weights twice a week, and my schedule has been so crazy and I got sick. So I hadn't worked out in a while. Finally yesterday, I was like, I got to work out, even though I don't feel well. And I don't know if this ever happens, but if you lay off for a while and you go back,

oh my gosh. So today, part of the reason that I'm a little whacked is I just think, like, you know, if you don't work out for a long time, it just kind of hits you harder. You know, I remember you were running through Central Park like a year ago, and you got the smell of,

marijuana. You remember that? You tweeted, or as you were running by, you said, Loser! No, I didn't say that close. That's close. No, I was, I was doing the big loop around, you go up around 110th Street, which is Harlem, right? Yep. And there were four young men, teenagers. And now, you know, at my age, I think of them as kids. Like, they're my kids. So I'm like a fatherly guy, right? So I'm jogging along. and I smell the weed, which I hate. Ugh, it's just disgusting. But I see it.

And as I'm jogging past these four teenagers. Wait a minute. You said the smell of failure. Is that what you said? No, no, no. Close. I said, I said exactly this. As I'm jogging, I said in an authoritative fatherly tone I was aiming for, I said,

smells like failure. That's it. And I just kept jogging. They were like, eh, I don't know, who knows what they said. but I thought, why did I do that? I did that. No kidding. I mean, you know, they're nasty people who will still say what they want to say, but I know, I don't lie, right?

And I, I said it out of a genuinely fatherly, like, you know, I didn't have time to say, hey, young men, what are you doing standing in Central Park smoking weed like stupid idiots? That's what I would have liked to say. But, you know, tough love that young men need. but I didn't I was just jogging and I don't know where I came with it but I thought smells like failure so but but what you're bringing up is that later that day I kind of thought well that was an interesting encounter so I posted on X you know I mentioned it it blew up like absolutely nothing I have ever seen I had people boom friends of friends commented on it and I was like well you don't follow me on Twitter they're like, yeah, but we heard about it.

Somebody took, like, it was just, and of course, most of it was people attacking me for being an idiot and saying something like that. I mean, you know, it's a free country. I could say what I want. But that's so funny that you remember that. That's almost two years ago, I think. Is it two years ago?

Two years ago. You know, I ran the New York City Marathon three times and probably ran right by where they were. But that's way back. That's way back in the 70s and 80s. Eric. Are you serious? You're running that long? I love that. I love that race. It's still going on in November, you know? Yeah. I try to be out of town. I want to be out of town for that and the Puerto Rican Day parade like nightmares. The traffic, you don't want to be anywhere near here.

Well, listen, Frank, you, I mean, I want people to know who you are. A lot of the things, I mean, part of the reason I do this program is to introduce my audience to people. Now, a lot of people listening absolutely know you, but a lot don't. And I think they need to know Frank Turrick. So Turich is spelled T-U-R-E-K, folks. You got it. T-U-R-E-K, Frank Turic, who originally grew up in New Jersey, right or wrong. Yeah, forget about it.

Right there. Now you're in Charlotte, North Carolina. And your website is cross-examined.org. Now, why did you name your ministry and the website cross-examined? A double meaning, because we're examining the cross, and we're cross-examining people that say Christianity's false. We give evidence that Christianity's true. I co-wrote a book a number of years ago called I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

And so we go to colleges, we go to high schools, we go to churches, and we present the evidence. In fact, I think I may be coming to NYU in 2025. We're going to be out there maybe in Washington Park. Wouldn't that be fun? Washington Square Park. That's a great place. Yeah. That's a perfect place. You know, we go and we give evidence that Christianity's true, and we take questions from

anybody who are skeptical about Christianity, about what the Bible says, and that's what we do. People often ask me, Eric, how much time does it take for you to prep for your show? And my answer is invariably zero. I don't prep for the show. I don't. The answer is, Eric, what are you? Are you, did you hit 60 yet? perhaps, why do you ask? Because that's your answer.

How long it takes, prepare for you on show? 60 years. I was going to say, it's like my life is prepped. But the reason I say that is like, so I don't have questions for you. You're my friend, Frank Turrick. You're just fascinating to talk to. But I just remembered something, which if I had prepped for the show, I would have written this down. You, I follow you also on Instagram.

And you said something recently that I'd never heard before. I was so fascinated, and I should have made a note, I want to ask Frank about this. I didn't. But by the grace of God, he brought it to my mind as I'm in fact talking to you. What am I referring to? I will tell you, you were asked the question, I don't know, the venue, but you were asked the question about why don't Christians observe the Sabbath? Why don't we take that as seriously as the Jews did?

And typically my answer, if I'm standing on a stage and somebody asked me that, I would, right away, I feel a sense of guilt. Like, you know what? Yeah, we've kind of blown that. We should be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's the whole story. I've talked about this at other times, not really having a definitive answer.

You, my friend, blew me out of the water with your answer. Would you please share that with my audience? Sure. Well, the old covenant is obsolete, according to Hebrews. Hebrews 813. And the old covenant includes the Ten Commandments. Now, before you guys stone me for saying that, that the Ten Commandments don't apply to Christians. They do apply to Christians when they're repeated in the New Testament, and nine out of the ten are repeated in the New Testament.

The only one that isn't is keep holy the Sabbath because the Sabbath has arrived. Jesus is our rest. We rest in his work. We don't earn our way to salvation. Jesus earns his way or earns our way to salvation. He's the perfect sacrifice in our place. So we rest in him. And Paul even says in Colossians chapter 2, don't let anyone tell you you have to obey any Sabbath their festival day.

So we can observe it if we want to, but it's not an obligation because Jesus fulfilled it. That is mind-blowing stuff, Frank Turrick. Have you heard many people say that? I have never heard anyone until I heard you say that. I'd never heard that. You know, I've been going to a lot of churches for a lot of years. Well, I learned under Dr. Norman Geisler, who has forgotten more than I'll ever know. He passed away about five years ago, and he talked a lot about the difference between the covenants, the old covenant and the new covenant. The old covenant is obsolete. It does not apply anymore, except when it's repeated in the New Testament. And so keep holy the Sabbath is not repeated in the New Testament. Jesus is our Sabbath. Right, but part of the problem is that Christians are always talking about the Ten Commandments, Ten Commandments. We want to close the Ten Commandments. And one of the Ten Commandments is, that and let's be clear in the 20 centuries of the Christian faith I would say most Christians to

some extent have kept the Sabbath maybe a different kind of Sabbath but we have taken that seriously on Sundays for example stores were closed up until I was a kid in Connecticut I mean all over there so there's something to the concept of the Sabbath there's something the concept of the day of rest and so on and so forth you're just saying what it's not obligatory It makes sense to do, but it's not part of the covenant. It's not part of the new covenant. In fact, the early believers began to worship on Sunday because that's the day he rose. That was a work day, of course, in the Jewish calendar.

But they began to move their observance to Sunday because that's the day he rose. But Sunday is not the new Sabbath, because there is no Sabbath that we have to obey. Sunday was just the day that he rose, and so they worshipped on Sunday and they had church services on Sunday. In my book, Seven Men, one of the seven men is Eric Little. Some people know his story from chariots to fire. Yeah. And he, the whole story centers around the fact that he would not run on the Sabbath on the Lord's Day.

When we come back, I'm going to keep talking to our friend Frank Turrick about this subject because this is so fascinating. Frank Turrick can be found at cross-examined.org. Folks, I think you already know you owe it to yourself. Go to cross-examined.org. We'll be right back. Folks, I've got to be realistic about my diet in December. It's got to be the worst month of the year in terms of eating.

No matter what you do, you're inevitably going to find yourself eating things, treats, meats, dishes, leaving very little room for the right stuff. But I will take balance of nature every single day. is made from whole fruit and veggie ingredients, and I will not skip taking those daily supplements. It's the one thing I'll get right because feeling good is important to me, especially in December. Join me in pushing back against the dreaded December diet crash. You can do that by getting balance of nature today. Use my discount code Eric and sign up as a new customer to get 35% off plus free shipping and their money back guarantee. It's an awesome December discount,

but you have to use my discount code Eric. Call them at 800-2468-751 and use Discount code Eric or order online at balance of nature.com. Use discount code Eric to get 35% off plus free shipping balance of nature. 800 246-8-751. Use code Eric. Hey, this is Eric Mettaxas. For years, I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993. Nutrametics offers a variety of health bundles. Whether you want to support your immune system, improve your sleep, promote joint comfort or detoxification support, Nutrametics has a health bundle right for you. The best part about Nutrametics, every year they donate a minimum of 50% of their profits to Christian charities and missions. That's right, 50% of their profits. Nutrametics has a goal

of surpassing 100 million in giving by 2030. Many of you take supplements already. Switch to Nutrametics. It's the highest quality, and they donate 50% of their profits. Get 15% off by using the code Eric during checkout. Go to Nutrametics.com and search health bundles, support your health while helping others in need. Go to Neutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Neutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Nutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off.

Welcome back talking to our friend, Frank T-U-R-E-K, who heads up cross-examined. You can find them at cross-examined.org. So what we're talking about right now, I saw you on Instagram, one of the posts, that you're talking about what you just said a few moments ago. And so I was thinking, okay, Eric Little, and this applies so many people throughout history, they had a different view. They had a view of the Sabbath like it's one of the Ten Commandments. I'm obliged to follow it.

Therefore, I'll ne run on the Sabbath or something like that, would not run on the Sabbath. So historically, a lot of folks don't get what you're saying. This is, you know, this is kind of news, really, what you're saying. same. Well, it's in Colossians chapter 2. I mean, it's not a mystery. It's right there. And if you sense in your heart that you want to obey the Sabbath, for me, that would be a Romans 14 issue where Paul talks about the fact that if you have something on your conscience that you think you have to obey, fine, but if it's a disputable matter, don't put that obligation on other people, and they ought not put their obligations on disputable matters on you.

So it is a matter of conscience. If Eric Little felt like he couldn't run on the Sabbath for whatever reason, fine, then don't do it. But don't say that no one can run on the Sabbath because that's not in the new covenant. That's the old covenant. That reminds me of two things. It reminds me, first of all, of alcohol, right? If somebody says, I don't drink, we don't serve drinks at our house, you know, we don't believe, I will not have a beer. I will not have a glass of wine.

my attitude is, well, that's absolutely fine. It's more than fine if that's, you know, what you want to do. But if you then make a doctrine out of it and say the Bible says no one can have a beer with a burger or no one can have a glass wine, I'm going to say, wait a minute, you're adding to scripture, which is really blasphemous. In fact, you're violating Romans 14, Eric, that's one of the two examples Paul uses in Romans 14 when he says, a drinking wine or meat sacrifice to idols. If you have a conscience telling you you can't drink wine or eat meat sacrifice to idols,

fine. But don't put that obligation on other people. Don't say that they can't do so because it's a disputable matter. Obviously, alcohol is a dangerous substance that we have to be very careful with. But Jesus turned water into wine. The Proverbs talk about how wine makes a man grow happy. But it also says, They mean grape juice.

They mean grape juice and Kool-Aid. They're referring to, in the original Greek, it's Kool-Aid they're talking about. Pure sugar. That's why he warned them not to get drunk on the Kool-Aid. Yeah. Right. We can't get drunk on wine, but according to the scriptures, wine is permissible for appropriate use.

Just like anything else, if you abuse it, it turns into a sin. But you understand. I mean, I went to, you know, starting in 1990, I went to Times Square Church. David Wilkerson was the head pastor. And I remember I was newly saved sitting in the congregation. I think it was my friend Michael Brown preaching. This is the mid-90s. And making it clear as a bell that, you know, you can't drink a beer.

And then David Wilkerson said something. And then somebody said, yeah, he wrote a book called Sipping Saints. And I thought, ladies and gentlemen, you're holier than Jesus. But these people are convinced, you know, that. That's some people, I don't know, Michael Brown's views today, but I'm saying that Times Square Church in the 90s, you know, 99.9% of what they preached was fantastic. But I remember hearing that and as a young man thinking, what, that's not biblical. Where are you getting that from? But they actually convinced, they're convinced that that's, no, that's biblical.

Yeah, there are people that make those arguments and I think they're in violation of Romans 14. In fact, as I say, Paul actually uses wine in the illustration. He says, if you want to drink wine, fine. If other people don't, well, that's their conviction. Don't impose your conviction on them and vice versa. But you know what they do is they twist the scripture. They say, oh, but it's really referring wine in those days was different. It's referring to effectively grape juice.

That's their argument. If that were the case, why would there be warnings against it? If it's just grape juice, you couldn't get drunk on it. If it's so diluted, because they did purify their water with wine, but if it was so diluted, there would be no need to warn people, don't drink too much. You don't get drunk. You couldn't get drunk on diluted wine. Oh, no.

Look, it's so, it's obvious when you look at the context, but I'm saying that these people are convinced, like, oh, no, no, no, it's biblical. That's what it says. You know, and to me, that's no different than churches that say, well, in the original, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, therefore men can sleep. with men because, and they're, you know, they're, they're looking for, for excuses from the Bible, and they're twisting the meaning, but you can do it in both directions. You can do in the direction of what we would say progressive, you know, Christianity, or you could do in the direction

that we're holier than Jesus, and we think nobody drank wine. That's wrong. Yeah, yeah, you could go and be a legalist, or you can become someone who's a libertine, and both of those positions are wrong. You have to look at what the scripture says and live by what it says. And it does not say you can't drink wine. It does not say that you have to go observe the Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday or whatever it is. That's not what it says. Paul says expressly in Colossians 2. Don't let anyone tell you have to obey any Sabbath or festival day.

And he even uses wine in Romans 14 as an example of a disputable matter. Although the wine, he's talking about sacrifice to idols specifically. Now that was meat sacrifice to idols. Oh, he uses two examples. Wine and meet sacrificed idols. Yeah. Oh, I didn't get that. I thought the sacrifice to idols applied to the wine into the.

No, no, no. No, it's it's two different, it's given two different examples of disputable matters there. And, you know, we can think of disputable matters we might have. You know, can you watch our movies, you know, that kind of stuff that people always grew up on. I can't go out of our movie, that kind of thing. Can I shop at Target? Yeah. Well, you know, can I go to Disney?

Actually, in those cases, I would say biblically, the answer is a clear. No, no Target, no Disney, and I'm not joking. And we'll be right back talking to Frank Turek. Hey, folks, the story of My Pillow is a testament to faith and transformation. Mike Lindell, once battling addiction, found a new path when he embraced faith and began following Jesus. In gratitude, Mike is excited to share an exclusive offer with our listeners. Right now, the standard MyPillow is available for just 1488, a savings that's too good to pass up. There's a limit of 10 per customer, so don't wait to take advantage of this.

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Oh, it's great. Or pick up the luxurious MyPillow Bedsheets starting at 4998. Visit MyPillow.com or call 800-978305. Use promo code Eric to unlock huge discounts. That's promo code Eric, mypillow.com, 800, 9783057. Welcome back, folks, talking to our friend Frank Turrick, T-U-R-E-K, just like Turk with an E. Okay, Frank Turich, people can find you at cross-examined.org. What you were sharing, what you've been sharing is really fascinating.

And it's bombshell stuff. I know that there are Christians that are going to listen to this and go, what? The SAT, one of the Ten Commandments does not apply. That's right, folks. That's why you need to tune into this program. You're going to find out a lot of crazy stuff. Okay, Frank, you were recently in Egypt. I saw those videos.

What about it? What about you were at Mount Sinai, perhaps? I was in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. I just got back a couple of days ago. We were looking at evidence for the Exodus in Egypt and evidence that the real Mount Sinai's in Saudi Arabia. And if I had to guess, based on the evidence, I'd be 80 to 90 percent sure it is in Saudi Arabia, a place called Jabal-L laws. There's a lot of evidence there. In fact, I just climbed it last Friday with about four other folks, took a little over three hours to get up there.

And it is an amazing site. There's so much around it that indicates that this could be the real Mount Sinai, including the split rock of Horub. In fact, on our YouTube channel and our Instagram page, we have some videos of the split rock of horrib, which appears to be the split rock of horrib, this huge rock that had been split as Exodus 17 talks about, and water gushed out. Well, there's evidence of water erosion all over this thing, and this is an area, Eric, where they get a quarter inch of rain a year. Where do you get all this water erosion? Well, this huge rock apparently split and probably flowed for some time, creating enough water for those 600,000 to 2 million Israelites to actually live in that area for a short period of time around Mount Sinai.

There's a bunch of other evidence. They go to our YouTube channel or our Instagram page. They're going to see a bunch of videos in the coming weeks that show evidence around this area in Saudi Arabia being the real Mount Sinai. That's crazy talk. You don't take that stuff literally. Come on. Yeah, absolutely. I think it really happened.

You know, the foundation of Western civilization, as my friend Eric Matakis once said, is the Ten Commandments. In fact, didn't you write a book called If You Can Keep It? Nah. You think you did, man. That's a rumor. It's a rumor. It has to do with the fact that our nation has Moses staring at the Speaker of the House

in the House of Representatives. The Ten Commandments are right there. They're the foundation of Western civilization, ladies and gentlemen. Except for the Sabbath one. Except for the Sabbath. Of course, I take this stuff literally. know that I joke. Not everybody knows that I joke. A lot of times I joke around and we'll get an email or somebody that I didn't understand. Were you, folks, if I say something really weird,

the chances are I'm joking. It's called sarcasm. If you live full time in New York. You have to right? You got to be sarcastic. It's the only way you can survive. Absolutely. So, but that's seriously how crazy that you were at Mount Horrib. that you saw the rock or that you really believe it. I mean, you can't prove it, but the evidence is pretty strong. There's also an altar at the bottom that just like Exodus says, there's a corral that would bring animals to this altar. There's Elijah's cave on the mountain we visited.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence. There's bull petroglyphs everywhere. Some say it's the golden calf altar. It's all there. I saw that on your Instagram account. And so let me ask you, do you do, was this like a tour, a group of people coming with you? Yeah, it was. We had about 30 folks on this trip that started in Egypt and went to Saudi Arabia.

And I have a great host. Her name is Rhonda Sand. She has a company called Living Passages.com. She organizes the whole trip. Ron? Yeah, right. Close. Yeah.

Oh, Rhonda. Sand. Close. Rhonda Sand. Yeah, she's fabulous. governor than governor ronda said it's different than the governor yeah she she puts together a great trip i've probably done a dozen trips with her almost and we've done israel footsteps of paul we've done we've been saudi arabia uh just uh just a just a a trip we do every year to bring a bunch of

people with us to really see the land of the bible and this was the first time we've been to egypt and saudi arabia because right now obviously you know we can't go to israel without some difficulty so we decided let's check out the exodus let's see if it really happened let's see what have there? I've never done this before, but next June, we're doing a, um, a tour, a cruise. It's one of these big cruise boats. Yeah, where are you going? Three, three or four hundred of, of our, our people. Uh, it leaves Athens, June 6th. Uh, and it's 10 days through the Greek islands. So we hit, you know, Crete, uh, Mikanos, Santorini, Ephesus, which of course is in Turkey. We sell to the Dardanelles were in Istanbul for two days.

I'm going to be speaking probably every other night or more on different books and stuff like that. So it's not really a footsteps of Paul tour or anything like that. But we will be going to some of the places where Paul was. And, you know, I just, I've never done anything like this. So I'm. I've done that trip a couple of times, Eric. And let me tell everybody listening right now, you want to go on that trip.

You're going to have a wonderful time. The Greek islands are beautiful. and you're going to see biblical sites. You're going to see Mars Hill. You're going to see where Paul was. You'd be probably going to drive down to Corinth, I imagine. Certainly if you go to Ephesus, you're going to see that. And then just every Greek island is just paradise.

Santorini, Micanos Roes. It is amazing. I mean, I'm dying to go. My least favorite place is Mechanos because I went there once, and it's like for, it's for shallow, rich people. And I'm not rich, but I am sure. shallow, but it's for shallow rich people. And I got to say that, but Santorini, the Thera, the crater, the, you know, but the most exciting for me is the last stop is Crete. I want to see the Palace of Nossos

excavated by Sir Arthur Evans in 1900. Oh my gosh, I'm dying to see that, dying to see that. I love stuff like this. You know, you and I obviously love archaeology. It's, yeah, it's exciting. But, I mean, the fact that you were in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, I still can't believe that you got to these spots. That's such a cool thing. I'll tell you, those places are friendlier now to tourism. Egypt has been for a while, and Saudi Arabia is just opening up that you probably heard of this Neum area.

That's where we were. That's an area that the Saudis are developing for tourism because they're trying to create another source of income other than oil for themselves. and right along the Gulf of Aqaba, they're building these amazing hotels. The place is called Neom. N-E-O-M. People can look it up on the internet

and see what it's all about. Neum. All right, but if people want to find you, they can go to cross-examined. Dot org. That's right. And we also have a podcast called, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Two shows a week. Not as many as the Great Erickman, Texas, but we do two. Holy cow. We just do two. All right. Well, hang on. final segment coming up, folks, talking to Frank Turrick.

Folks, welcome back, final segment with Frank Turrick. Frank, it's interesting. You just asked me on the break what, you know, what's my latest book? And the latest book is Religinalist Christianity. And it ties into some of the stuff that we were just talking about, how there are some Christians that they're worshipping religious idols. You know, it's not satanic idols. It's religious idols.

And it's this idea that I'm so theologically pure. It's this idea that I'm holier than you are. I don't, you know, we don't drink alcohol. There's a temptation for certain kinds of people. Some people are tempted toward libertinism, as you put it. to sin to do all this stuff. Some people are tempted in the other direction. And they don't know the freedom in Christ.

They don't know that the joy. And it's interesting because that to me is part of the equation. It's like, what is God really saying? What is God really saying? Not what people say he said and then you say, well, that's good enough for me. But what is he actually saying? And sometimes, I mean, the reason I wrote religiousness Christianity was to deal with that. I think, how is it, for example, my previous book is Letters to the American Church,

how is it that Germans in Germany somehow believe that being pious, just doing church, was better than fighting the evil of Hitler and standing against Hitler? That's a kind of religious idol, which is ultimately satanic because you're serving the devil pretending to be serving God, but you're not. the ultimate idol is thinking that you can make it on your own. And since it is Christmas, maybe we ought to say, that's why Jesus had to come because you can't make it on your own. You can't be good enough.

You know, I often say to audiences, you know, you can get to heaven by being good. And then I pause and they're going, what do you mean? You just got to be perfect your whole life. Too late for me. How about you? Right. God is a standard of infinite justice, as we all know. And if he's infinitely just, none of us are going to make it, Eric.

That's why he had to add humanity to his deity. come to earth, live the perfect life in our place, allow the creatures that he created to torture and kill him so he could take our punishment upon himself and then by trusting in him, you can not only be forgiven, you can be given his righteousness. So you don't become righteous by following laws. You become righteous by following what Jesus has done. He gives us his righteousness. We simply accept what he's done.

and then out of love for what he's done, then we obey his commandments. But we're not earning browning poise by obeying his commandments. We're not putting God in our debt. God took all of our punishment upon himself. That's what Christmas is all about. That's why he had to come. That's beautiful and how appropriate that we should end there. I just didn't answer your question when you said to me off the year, what else am I doing?

I've been talking a lot about Bonhofer because the Bonhofer film came out. I don't know if you had a chance to see it. I haven't seen it yet. What do you think? Everybody, all my friends say, I haven't seen it yet. It's going away. It was in 1900 theaters. Now it's like in 500 theaters.

I think it's fantastic. I'm telling everybody grab someone and, oh, it's an amazing evangelistic opportunity. It's just been an amazing. Yeah, it's wonderful. It's not perfect. I mean, especially as the author of the Bonhover book, it's not officially based on my book, but it's a great film. But of course, you know, I'm quibbled with this and who cares.

It's like Chariates of Fire. It's an amazing film that really points to God. It's just beautiful. So I say to everybody, if you can see it, run. It's like it's absolutely fantastic. But I've been talking a lot about Bonhofer, which, you know, just ties into my, the theme of my book, Letter of the American Church and religionless Christianity is, what does it look like really to live out our faith?

What does that look like? And to me, in some ways, he's the ultimate example, certainly in the 20th century. Frank Turrick, thank you for coming on. I want you back as soon as possible. It's just like it's crazy when I'm talking to you. Folks, check out cross-examined.org, cross-examined.org. Frank, Turek, thank you, my friend. Great being with you, my friend.

God bless.