The Eric Metaxas Show - Dr. Joseph Nicolosi

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi has been canceled on various platforms for espousing Reintegrative Therapy, which has helped people deal with sexual addictions and same-sex attraction.

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey, folks, welcome to Tuesday, Tuesday, the 25th of January. January? Just 11 months until Christmas. Isn't that sweet? I can't wait. I can't wait. I know. It's right around the corner.

Gee, better do your shopping. By the way, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas back at you. Thank you. I always want to say it early and late. Hey, today, we've got two special guests. In hour one today, we're talking. a Dr. Joseph Nicolosi Jr.

This is the kind of stuff that it's why I have a program because you can't find this information anywhere and this is very, very, very, very, very, very important information. What's the information? People, all kinds of people around the world struggle with same-sex attraction and they're being told there's nothing you can do about it. It's a great thing.

Go with it. That's garbage, okay? on a number of levels, but you'll rarely hear people give you the truth. Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, Jr., has a lot to say on this, and I hope not only will you listen to my conversation with him, but you'll share it on Rumble, on Twitter, wherever you are on social media. We have to get the word out, folks. There are people struggling, looking for help, and they're being told, shut up.

We don't want to hear about what you want. This is who you are. whether you like it or not. That's not right. That's not right. We live in a free country. So we're going to talk to Joseph Nicolosi, Jr., tremendous hope for people struggling in that area. In our two, we have Ryan Helfenbine, my man, Ryan.

He is with the Standing for Freedom Center at Liberty University. We're going to be talking about the March for Life, and we were just together in D.C. By the way, I didn't talk about anything yesterday with regard to the weekend. My weekend started early because, we flew down to Washington, D.C. for the March for Life, which was Friday. Friday, yep. And we went to a dinner. Tim Tebow was the speaker at the dinner.

And Abby Johnson was given an award. Now, some people know, she's the woman that was a decorated, planned parenthood executive, who saw the reality of abortion and completely changed her life. and she's now an advocate for the unborn. We'll have her on this program again. We've had her on the past. But it was just a wonderful evening, got to meet so many tremendous people in D.C.

But I then flew to Colorado Springs the next day. And I want to tell you, everywhere I go I get encouraged. Colorado Springs, I know there are many ministries there, but I had the privilege to speak in the church, a church called The Road. Pastor Steve Holt, is the pastor at the Road Church. And it was so wonderful to get to know that community of people at the Road Church in Colorado Springs.

And Steve Holt took me the day before to see Andrew Womack's operation. Now, some people know who Andrew Womack. He's got a huge ministry, and we taped an hour-long TV program, so I'm sure that'll be on in a month or something like that. But just we just did a lot of stuff. It was wonderful. But if I have to tell you the highlight, can I tell you what I think is the highlight? Okay, do it. Okay.

After every service, I have this privilege of, you know, signing books. People have just heard me speak. And a lot of them bring their books from home and they want me to sign. They want to meet me or take a picture or something, right? Well, that for me is just a huge blessing. I enjoy that. I just enjoy meeting these people. and a couple of young guys, I'm pretty sure they were named Ethan and Nathan.

They're kind of like, you know, these trouble making redheaded stepsonns, except they, they're not stepson and they're not redheaded, but they had that gleam in their eye. What did they carry in line for me to sign a pillow, a my pillow pillow pillow. Oh, wow. And they said, we ordered this with the code Eric, would you sign it? And I thought, is this the funniest thing ever? Who's ever been asked to sign a pillow? I don't know about you, folks, but this was my first time to sign a pillow. Wow.

And I got out the Sharpie. I signed the pillow. And, of course, I had to put it on the picture on Twitter and on Instagram because I said, this is just, this is too wonderful. It's a good reminder to go to mypillow.com or my store.com and use the code Eric. Eric. Eric. You could also go to Nutrimetics.com and use the code. Eric.

But these guys, when they brought the pillow, I just, it was so hilarious to me that they brought this pillow. It looked like it'd been through the wash a couple of times. It looked like it dated to the Confederate era. It looked like an older my pillow. But honestly, it was so funny. So I signed the pillow and I put it on Instagram. And I just discovered that we've hit 25,000 followers on Instagram. I typically hadn't posted a lot on Instagram, but we're kind of ramping that up.

So if you want to follow me on Instagram, obviously I want to encourage you to follow me on Instagram because we need to double that number by tomorrow. Yes. If I'm going to win the 10 speed bike, I need to double that number. So please follow me on Instagram. So far we have 25,000. We want to see that number double. Otherwise, I don't get a 10 speed bike. And then what?

Kids in the neighbor are going to laugh at me. I'm still driving my 3-speed Huffy. That's totally uncool, man. I'm cool. Can I pop wheelies? Yeah, I can pop willies. But it's time for the 10-speed. So you need to go to Instagram, and you need to do that.

And you'll see my photo with the signed pillow and Ethan and Nathan in Colorado. I tell you, I just meet the most wonderful people wherever I go. You live the life that I wish I had. You know that? Well, I'm glad I'm fooling you. Traveling can be tough. I have to tell you. I won't go into details.

But half of it is just like wearing the mask on the plane. And you're like, wow. It's like this mask. I can't breathe. I can't, you know, whatever. And I thought if only somebody would invent a mask. Yes. Where you can really breathe and eat your food.

Yes. And brush your teeth without taking off the mask. And I thought maybe Albin knows something about that. Funny you should mention that, Eric, because I worked all weekend on this. Like, you know, like my pillow, he worked and he worked. He tried this. He tried that. I came up with a mask that everybody out there can wear, they can breathe, they can eat.

And here it is, folks. Here's the, I think it's an N95. or something? This works. This is why... This is working. People need to watch this on video. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not subscribed to my newsletter, you're not getting the videos.

You've got to go to Eric Mattaxas.com, sign up for the newsletter, you get the videos. Because who doesn't want to see? Albin's invention. Albin, you're the Alexander Graham Bell. There you go. Of, you know, masks for the rest of us. I appreciate it. Eli Whitney has nothing on me.

It's like Festivus. For the rest of us? There it is. These are masks for the rest of us. Yeah, because listen, you know, it's two years now, right? At first it was two weeks. Yeah. And then it was going to be, you know, two months.

Now it's two years. Yeah. People thought it was like bell bottoms, earth shoes, new Coke. They thought it was a passing fad. Right. But now they're ready for something like this because this answers everything. Well, because you can wear these masks all the time. All the time.

You can wear them in the shower. There you go. You can, gosh, you can wear them while you're kayaking. whatever suits you. Even if, let's say you're a triathlet or a decathlet, you can win the gold medal at the Communist Olympics

wearing one of these masks by Albin. Now, Albin, you're not manufacturing these yet, so we have to get to that. Not yet. See, I want to see if people write in. I want to see how many, you know, pre-orders, because I don't want to just go out there and start taking scissors to mask. You know, that's a lot of work. I was going to say that is a lot of work. And by the way, folks,

don't do it yourself. You need the professional. Albin is a professional. Maybe not in this field, but in some other fields, he's a professional. And you want to trust Albin with the scissors. It can be very dangerous. Listen, if you cut yourself, don't sue us, okay? We warned you.

You need to order these masks from Albin. And Albin, let me just say. CDC approved. It's a wonderful thing that you can drink hot or cold beverages. I'm drinking prop water right now. You're drinking prop water, which is a, that's a showbiz name for vodka. And this is an Eric Metaxus radio show mug. You can, you know what?

We should actually mention this. Yeah. If you go to Salem, wait, what's the website? Shopmetaxis.com. Shopmetaxis. Oh, yeah. They're selling my books, autographed copies of my books, at some insane price. But if you go to shopmetaxis.com, you can also get mugs, t-shirts, and eventually these men,

And Hamster Homes, the complete six book set. I autographed with a cartoon drawing of myself. So it's autographed as well. Ladies and gentlemen, do you understand what we're trying to tell you here? I knew this was going to turn into a pitch for something. When we come back, Joseph Nicolosi Jr., very important. Thank you. Hey there, folks. Have you ever looked for a business podcast?

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for any number of years, you know that one of the principal issues on my heart is what do we say to somebody who experiences same-sex attraction and who really doesn't want to. The culture tells him there's nothing you can do, enjoy it, this is who you are. It's my understanding that that's nonsense. And yet the messages are really difficult for people struggling with same-sex attraction. A number of years ago, I was introduced to the work of Dr. Jeff Satnover and Dr. Joseph Nicholas Sr. and I realize that the good news on this issue that you can change is either being suppressed or so vilified and mocked that people who are really struggling typically don't even hear about it, much less have access to it. So it came to my attention that the son of the late

Dr. Nicolosi was working in the same field, heroically. His name is Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, Jr., clinical psychologist, who deals with what's called reintegrative therapy. And he is my guest right now. Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, Jr., welcome. Thanks for having me. So talk to me about this. First of all, how did you get into this and where are we? How I got into this, I think I was, I'm sure, to some degree, influenced by my father doing this work and meeting the men that he worked with, men who would say, you know, I have these attractions, but these attractions don't define me. And I live in a culture that says, I have absolutely no choice. My choice is to suppress who I am and be miserable and just deny myself or take on a gay identity. And even if that conflicts with my faith, my values,

I have no choice. And they were looking for options and they were told that they had absolutely none. And so that's kind of how I started. And where we are now, where we are now is that there are different states that want to ban this kind of therapy. Canada just in the last week, Bill C4, where they make it a crime to help a person explore options other than LGBT. In Canada now with Bill C4, if you want to. explore heterosexuality, that's illegal. And there's punishment up to five years in jail time.

Okay, we have to be clear. I mean, this is so evil. Even if you want to change your sexual attraction, we have ideology that's pro-LGBQ ideology, whatever that is, that is so strong, it says we don't care about your freedom of choice. We are not even going to allow you to explore this, and we're going to vilify and, in many cases, criminalize getting help. That is a scandal. I don't care what side of this issue anyone is on.

You understand this is the absolute enemy of freedom of the individual. It's an amazing thing. And it always tells me who's on the right side. The one's trying to crush conversation, just trying to crush what they don't like. it tells me that they're scared. So they're just going to use political power to crush people who are trying to help other people. This even happened, Governor Chris Christie, former governor of New Jersey, banned this kind of therapy in New Jersey. It seems to me that if you can get help, if you want to get help, on what basis do they say, we don't want you to get help?

What do they say? They'll say this treatment is harmful. You're just suppressing who you really are. And you shouldn't even have it as an option. The government should take that option away from you. The government should decide. Taking a position in America called the separation of church and state, the government is not supposed to take a position,

any official position on these ultimate issues. It's supposed to be agnostic and let people work it out themselves. So we have the government effectively establishing a religion, a secular, humanist, materialist worldview of the human person that is at odds

with a biblical view. And yet, because of cultural pressure, this is happening over and over and over again. And you're telling me, not only are they doing this, but you're saying that there is help for people. If somebody's same sex attracted, there is help for them. They can,

can find a way out. That's right. We believe that everybody should be free to live a life consistent with their values, Judeo-Christian or otherwise. And no one, no government should bar access to another person's choice to live consistently with their values, including as it pertains to their sexuality. That's really what's at stake here. This is what is at issue right now in our culture.

So, I mean, I think a lot of people, really it's about scare tactics. say, oh, there's electroshock therapy. They say anything they can say to make you think whoever is trying to help someone with this is a bad guy, is an evil fundamentalist person at some Bible camp in 1963. And the reality is there are folks like you working compassionately, trying to help people, and you're demonized and vilified. So I guess my question is, right now, I know there was a report recently, which is why we're talking, that something was able to rather dramatically help people with their attractions. So talk about that report a little bit. Yeah, so a large-scale longitudinal study published in the journal of human sexuality a few months ago

looked at trauma treatment for men with same-sex attractions. They didn't even have to be men who wanted to change to heterosexuality, just men who were open to exploring their sexuality. And these individuals, we used reintegrative therapy, and all we did was treat traumatic memories. That's what we do. We treat traumatic memories using evidence-based treatment approaches. We treat the traumatic memories. And over time, what they found was of these 75 men, they found a statistically significant increase in their heterosexual thoughts, feelings, behavior, and identity. So this is not just behavior modification. A statistically significant decrease in the same-sex attractions, thoughts, feelings, behavior, and identity, and a statistically significant increase

in overall psychological well-being. This is what they found. And we did some videos on YouTube and we talked about the studies and we spent quite a bit of time going through it, examining the method that people go through in the therapy. We want to make this open source. We want people to actually see the steps and hear about the published literature. And a week ago, YouTube banned the entire channel. banned all videos. They said they send me an email. This is hate speech. This is a violation of our standards. And we even had some videos where we showed the exact same treatment model used for a heterosexual, a heterosexual guy with heterosexual pornography addiction. They banned all of it and said it was hate speech. Well, this is where we are, folks. And if you're not part of fighting back against this evil, this tyranny, you're part of the problem. There are a lot of people say, oh, I don't want any controversy. Well, the controversy comes to you. If you want to help somebody or if you yourself want to get help, you are being labeled, hateful. It's just preposterous.

And we have to fight against it just on that level. So if somebody wants to find you or to anybody who can help them, what's the best place for somebody to go if they're looking for help along these lines? The best thing to do is go to, I believe, go to reintegrativetherapy.com, reintegrativetherapy.com. And just look at the science. That's the first thing a person should do. What does the science say? Are there other studies that show this? There's a ton of data.

Reintegrative Therapy.com, you click on science. We show there's evidence about brain scans, about how people have changed, using a variety of methods. People need to educate themselves. But they can find you through that website. Yes, absolutely. Totally. The reason I'm asking this is because I know many people, we're going to get emails from people saying, like, look, I have struggled with this, and I don't know what to do.

And I'm told, shut up. and don't deal with it. I'd like to deal with it. I'd like to get help. So reintegrativetherapy.com, not easy to spell, reintegrativetherapy.com. You mentioned that you deal with, what is it, it's some kind of a medicine that you give to people while they are. I don't really understand how you deal with traumatic memories. What is the reality behind that?

Yeah. So here's the basic concept. We have an individual. Think about something that activates a response to them. We're going to kind of go a little different here. We're going to go into the psychology world here. So my terminology is going to change. But we have the individual.

Think about something. Anything. It could be binge eating, your favorite food, anything. Or sexual fantasy. Something that isn't working for you and you want to explore. Hold it. Get the feeling. Feel it really intensely.

Feel the arousal. Get it really intense. And once you feel it really intensely, now imagine going outside yourself. and looking in your own eyes. Look in your eyes and just see. What do you see? What do you see?

And you look and look and look. And the therapist is guiding the client. And the therapist doesn't say anything. The therapist steps back. And in a self-directed manner, these individuals are seeing, yeah, behind all this, I see fear. I see pain. I see loneliness. Okay.

What memories does that lead you back to? And the client brings up whatever memories you want. We resolve this memory. We're using an evidence-based treatment approach. We go back to the fantasy. The fantasy usually has a significantly different decrease in the arousal level. But first, legacy precious metals is the company that I trust to give you good and patient counsel for investing in your retirement. The Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, not only do your expenses go up, but the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise.

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So you're telling me that now we have science that says people can change. And then the government and other entities are trying to shut this down. I mean, that just makes me mad because it's so wrong. There's so many people looking for help and it's so difficult. The studies have been done so that if somebody has an attraction, an addiction that they don't like. They say, I would like to see if I could change this. You are saying, yes, you can. Yes, there is hope.

That's alone amazing because the lie in the culture is you are who you are. You can't change. So I guess Dr. Nicolaosa, you said it's the journal of human sexuality, but a report did come out recently that you have at reintegrative therapy.com. Is that right? That's correct. So tell us again, what does this report say? And how can anybody have a problem with a scientific study that shows what it shows? Yeah. So there was a report by some, this point maybe the one you're referencing, some organization that was an offshoot of the Southern Poverty Law Center. And they said this, these videos constitute misinformation. It was very broad, just misinformation, of course. That's the by the way. If you don't like stuff, if it both you, you label it official misinformation. folks, if you want to know what it was like to live in Nazi Germany, these are the early stages.

This is a stunning thing. Somebody who doesn't like something, they label it misinformation. It's like the state has declared you are spreading misinformation and you're going to get in trouble. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Everybody throughout history who's done anything of any major significance was considered by the elites to be spreading misinformation at the beginning of there were Freud, the founders of this country. the founders of this country.

I'm sure Bonhofer there have been tired. You're spreading misinformation. There's so many times throughout history. It's like, who gets to decide this? Can't people make the choice for themselves? Can't they independently investigate? We know it's not misinformation.

This is, you know, you know that legitimate study. So they're just doing this because they have nothing else to do except to use a label and to try to scare people. That's exactly. And this right now. Right. And so this is the tactic that we're seeing over and over. This is a great distinction right now between, as Dennis Prager makes this distinction, between a classical liberal and a leftist.

Because a classical liberal can debate. Okay, well, let's have a discussion. Let's look at the arguments based on their merits. Okay, that's how we would judge any other argument. But the radical left, which is now using authoritarian tactics, rather than engage in an honest intellectual debate in which we examine one another's positions, they simply label the other position and shut it down and censoring. That's a sign of people who have a very weak intellectual position,

and they have no choice but to use authoritarian measures, perhaps because deep down they know they would lose in an honest scientific discussion. Well, what I find funny and particularly ironic is that these are the people claiming that this kind of stuff is used coercively. In other words, they don't really, they don't want you to have any. choice in anything unless you choose the way they want you to choose. So obviously this comes into the abortion debate. This is if you really believe in choice, if you really believe in freedom, if you really care about people, then you allow them to make their own decisions. But these folks

don't want that. They want to shut down all discussion. But this must be exciting for you, the idea that there are people looking for help actually getting help. I mean, I think there are a lot of people that think there's nothing I can do. You're saying that for many of them, there is something they can do. That's right. The mainstream media and big tech are fundamentally being dishonest with the public on this issue. And this is the hypocrisy of the radical left, that they say, we celebrate all forms of fluidity. Celebrate yourself, celebrate fluidity. Fluidity is a fact. Okay, well, sometimes that fluidity means exploring heterosexuality. Why is that something to be banned in every other possibility?

I mean, there's a plethora now of new sexual identities. Those are all to be celebrated, but fluidity toward heterosexual is intrinsically what, pathological, is intrinsically harmful. This is the argument that they're making. This is the hypocrisy at the very core. Because you're establishing a model which makes them uncomfortable. You are suggesting, and the evidence. is suggesting that it is trauma in many cases that leads people to same-sex attraction.

That is not something you can say in this culture. When you say that, you're implying that same-sex attraction isn't wonderful. It's the result of, as I said, trauma. They have established this is the information that can go out. This other information is harmful. It's scary. it's negative, it's misinformation. And yet, according to these studies, this is what the science shows.

But evidently, there's some people who are not that interested in what the science really shows, what real science shows. That's right. That's right. The basic concept in three minutes, I'm going to distill something in three minutes here. My father, you mentioned earlier, was a clinical psychologist, and he treated probably more individuals than anyone in the history of the world with this issue. men with same-sex attractions. And when we get back for the next break,

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834, 800,5008384. Relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, Jr., clinical psychologist. You can find him at the website, reintegrativetherapy.com. Reintegrativetherapy.com.

You were just about to share Dr. Nicolosi is something. please go ahead. So we were talking earlier about the same-sex attractions and LGBT and and are there life experiences that may have an effect on this. And so my father was a clinical psychologist. He ran the largest clinic in the world that worked with these issues specifically with men. That was his specialty. And men would come to him over the years and they would, he'd start to notice that they would describe remarkably similar childhood experiences. And over years and years and years and years, he started to summarize what these men had told him. And the basic synopsis that he started to formulate was that as kids grow up, they go through different developmental stages,

right? So a six-year-old and a two-year-old are going through different things. Developmental stages are pretty much identical for boys and girls, stage after stage, up until about two and a half years of age. At two and a half years of age is what's called the gender identity phase of development. It's the first time where the boy has an additional developmental task that the girl doesn't have, which is to disidentify from the mother and identify with the father. You can see this in cultures around the world. You can go to New York, where you are, or California, or you can go to where I am. You can go to Brazil. Boys at this phase of development cross-culturally are really interested in male things, a superhero, Spider-Man, Iron Man, these different things. And at this phase, the child is

starting to distinguish that, oh, there are two different types of people in the world. Well, which one am I? And the kid is having to integrate a sense of gender in himself. We call this gender acquisition. And the theory, and of course, there's variations for different families, but the general theme that my father saw was that in homes in which the father could be more distant and sometimes critical, the mother higher anxiety, sometimes a bit intrusive, and the boy temperamentally sensitive. If you put these factors together, it seems to increase the probability that the boy may have difficulty at this particular phase of development. Oftentimes, if there's a brother, an older brother, the boy will have a hostile, a feared hostile relationship with the older brother. This is what Freud said,

Freud said every time he saw a patient who had male same-sex attractions, if that individual had an older brother, it was a feared hostile relationship with the older brother. And I would say approximately one-third of my clients were sexually abused. So you add sexual abuse in the mix. The more you compound these factors, the more the boy is going to have difficulty in that gender identity phase. And for many of these individuals who are not reported in the media, for many of these individuals, they attempted to make that shift over toward other males, but they experienced a hurt. a relational hurt, a feeling of rejection or something that interfered. And the boy didn't have other males to attach to. He experienced that hurt and he retreats back to the mother and doesn't make that gender identity shift. As he gets older, females are as close as friends.

He'll often say, I know females, I know girls like the back of my hand, but boys are different. And I get a lot of that female attention affection approval, but not as much of the male attention affection approval. And as years go on, eventually puberty occurred. and where are his attractions going to go to? Not toward females who seem safe and familiar, but toward males who for this man, this young man, feel exciting, mysterious, exotic, and these attractions tend to go toward the males.

And for many of these individuals, this is around 12, 13, 14, 15, the boy will try to pray that these feelings go away or try to shut the thoughts out of his mind altogether or try to make himself attracted to girls. but the feelings don't shift. And so he's conflicted within himself. And then we live in a culture that says, well, there's a reason why you have these feelings. You're gay. That's your identity. And it's almost like this kid's sealed off from other males. That gay label brings relief, but it also kind of separates him from others. This is who you are. This is your identity. You have no other choices. You were born this way. You'll always be this way. And your only choice really is to accept it. And that's where many of these are and and other narratives other than other than the one that we're seeing in pop culture are being suppressed. I have to say I have absolutely never heard an explanation like what you just gave, which is so spectacular because I can only imagine that there are tons of people listening to this program who say, that's me, that's my son, that's my brother, that this is,

This is something that, as you just said, this is known. This has been known for 100 years since Freud was looking at this. It's a pattern. It makes sense. It's not something that necessarily applies to everyone. But it is a widespread pattern. And the idea that we can know this and that we can help these young men, because we're talking about young men now, less than we are about lesbianism.

and same-sex attraction for women. But it's an extraordinary thing that we know these things and that this information is being suppressed because we have ideologues out there who cannot bear the thought that what they consider their identity is maybe not, you know, what ought to have happened. They seem to feel attacked by the very idea that maybe their same-sex attraction it is a result of something untoward. It's, I mean, it's understandable, but it's lamentable that they would feel so strongly

that they would try to suppress this kind of help. That's exactly right. And if another individual says, hey, that's not my story. Maybe it fits for other people. It doesn't fit for me. Hey, fine, no problem. But we're talking about erasing a part of history.

I mean, Freud, Young, a famous analyst was Anna Freud, Sigman Freud's daughter. many of these analysts saw these things, and that is just wiped from the record. I mean, we're just like, it's as if we're not allowed to talk about this. But the early analysts spoke very, very clearly about these specific phenomena. And here we are 100 years later. I think they would be shocked to hear now that to have a discussion about it would be hate speech.

Well, obviously, once you get Kinsey and others involved, Masters, and Johnson, and they really changed the narrative. They brought us into the world in which we live today where the strong implication was that sexuality is by definition on a continuum and even to question that is hateful and repressive. We're going to be right back final segment with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, Jr. Don't go away. Hey there, folks. Have you ever looked for a business podcast?

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Go to IPfrequently.com. That's IPfrequently.com. really exciting information. We're talking to Dr. Joseph Nicholas Jr. You can find him at reintegrativetherapy.com. This is exciting, Dr. Nicholas, because you are stating clearly that if somebody has same-sex attraction, there's a very high percent chance that they can change, that they can get help if they want to.

That news is so suppressed. I'm sure it's shocking to some people hearing this. Absolutely. Absolutely. They're not going to get this in the mainstream media. It's shocking. It's something that they've never heard before. Well, if somebody does want help or they want to find out more, where can they go other than the website that we've mentioned?

Well, I mean, if you go, if you Google it, you're going to get one point of view, which, hey, I mean, if you want to, if I were in an individual situation who is looking at this topic. Like, seriously, fine, go to Google, go to these different sources and hear different points of view. But we have to look at the scientific literature. We have to look at the new brain studies. We have to look at the new studies about how sexuality can really change. Reintegrative Therapy.com, click on science, and we have a bunch of different scientific studies that are not being represented out there that are in high-level peer review journals, neuroscience journals, looking at how sexuality can and does change.

the portions of the brain that are very much related to sexual attractions, such as the thalamus, the hypothalamus, we know that these are parts of the brain that not only change over the course of our life, but they change directly in relationship to life experiences. Our relationships, our experience, wires and rewires our brain. And so if sexuality can change, then there's a good chance that, oh, maybe these attractions for all of us. this is not just an LGBT thing, this is a human being thing, that our experiences had some kind of role in shaping this, and our life experiences can continue to. I mean, I have to say,

there are people, for all, you know, I could be one of them, right? There are people out there attracted to children, sexually attracted to children. Those people are being told, that's wrong, but there's nothing you can do about it, right? And here, to you, and I'm thinking, there may be people listening to this program who have attractions that they don't want that are ruining their lives. And they're being told, well, tough luck. There's just nothing you can do. You certainly can't act on it because that's a crime. But you're telling me that there is hope for people with attractions that are out of order or that they deem out of order.

I just think it is so cruel that there are people trying to suppress. hope that suppress this kind of change. It's, it's, it's dramatic. Other than your website, are there others that deal with this? How many doctors in the country are even taking this on right now? That's a very interesting question, because the numbers they're taking on are probably much larger than the numbers who are admitting that they're doing it. There are many individuals who see this. I mean, there are many individuals, here's a clear, clear example. There are many individuals who see people coming to them in psychotherapy and they say, these are my attractions. And I had an early childhood experience that I think shaped it. I was sexually abused. And I think that that experience

had an subsequent effect on my sexuality. Many therapists on a gut level, although politically, the current graduate school education and our pop culture ideology would tell us not to think about this. But in the privacy of the therapy room, many therapists see what's going on. They're just too afraid to talk about it. So there are many other opportunities. I think one website, the Alliance for Therapeutic choice and scientific integrity. That's another organization. There are others out there. The Alliance for Therapeutic Choice and Scientific Integrity. You can Google that. We'll have to leave it there. Folks, this is important stuff. Please spread the word. Dr. Nicolosi, thank you so much. Thank you.