The Eric Metaxas Show - Dr. Robert Pacienza

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Eric is joined by Dr. Robert Pacienza to talk about the overturne of Roe versus Wade 1 year later 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, looking for something new and original, something unique and without equal. Look no further. Here comes the one and only Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the show today. They tell me is Monday, June 26th, 2020.

That sounds like a date far in the future. I don't really think I would live this far into the 21st century. I'm kind of scared. Actually, I am really thrilled today because I get to talk today about something that happened two days ago over the weekend. I do not do radio over the weekend. And so today, June 26th, I want to talk about what happened two days ago on my mom's birthday, by the way, June 24th, June 24th, two days ago marked a date that will live in for me. That's not a word infamy.

The word infamy is a word. But Pearl Harbor was a date that would live in infamy. This is a date that should be celebrated. because it's the first anniversary of the overturning of that mockery of American law called Roe v. Wade. Not a mockery simply because it's immoral. That's a separate issue. A mockery of law because it was a bunch of Supreme Court justices, the proverbial old white men in robes who decided that someplace in the Constitution,

normal people can't find it, but they could kind of sniff it out with the special legal minds that there was a right to abortion. That was overturned by the grace of God after 50 years of that lunacy. I want to talk to today about the happy day of what happened a year ago and the happy day of the first anniversary of what happened a year ago on June 24th, 2020 with Dr. Robert Passienza. You may know him. He's the senior pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale. He's also president's CEO of Dr. James Kennedy Ministries. Dr. Robert Posseanza, welcome the program. Eric, thanks for having me on. You wrote about this. You've spoken about this. It's been a little bit scandalous to me and others. How few churches celebrated a year ago when this monstrand.

on several levels called Roe v. Wade when it was overturned. To me, it was like the fall of the Berlin Wall. It was like the end of the Soviet Union. This was a day you should be dancing in the streets because the thing that everyone said could never happen, will never happen. Don't vote in 2016 because it's not going to make a difference. Turns out your vote in 2016 made a monstrous difference, changed. history in an unprecedented way, and we just celebrated the first anniversary. So what are your thoughts? Yeah, this should be something that should be an easy celebration for every Christian in North America. We have estimates over the past year, anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 babies were saved because of the overturning of Roe. This should be something that should have easily been celebrated from every pulpit. in North America, but as you just said, unfortunately, many of the pulpits were silent.

I don't need to tell you as a resident of New York City, but on 9-11, nearly 3,000 people perished on that day, and it was an atrocity. But every day in North America, 3,000 babies are being slaughtered because of abortion. We have a 9-11 in our country every day. And so when we have the highest court of the land overturning and reversing this amazing decision that was made, an infamous decision made 49 years ago, 50 years ago now, this should be something that we should be shouting from the rooftops, celebrating that Christians can make a difference in culture. And I think we really did miss, unfortunately, an opportunity in many of our pulpits to use this. as a case study, this is what happens when Christians do get engaged in the public square. We can make a difference.

This started with one Christian Attorney General in Mississippi, of all places that decided to make a, to take a stance regarding the Dobbs case and look where we are just a few years later. Are you familiar with the Dobbs case? I'm really not. I don't even understand what it was that happened exactly. Or maybe I was paying attention at the time a year ago and I have forgotten. Yeah, I can't remember exactly when it happened, but it was several years ago, the Attorney General of Mississippi and the governor at the time, Phil Bryant, decided to shut down, I believe, the last women's center in Jackson, Mississippi. And that court case made its way all the way eventually to the Supreme Court. and when the Supreme Court made the decision last June that they had every constitutional right as a state to close down that women's center, they, of course, had to then reverse their position on Roe.

But I think the point that we need to not miss, here's just a few Christians engaging in the public square in Jackson, Mississippi, and look what can happen. And I think sometimes we think these Supreme Court cases are insurmountable, that there's way too daunting that we just can never imagine that our country can reverse course. But isn't that been the story of Christians over 2,000 years? We have 2,000 years of historical precedent of Christians engaging culture and bringing about the most flourishing societies that the world has ever seen. I didn't expect to bring it up, but my newest book is called Letter to the American Church. And this is basically my argument in that book, that this lie that we're somehow supposed to avoid politics or avoid trying to change the culture is everywhere in the American church. It's not in your church, Coral Ridge, and it's not in the churches that invite me to speak. but in many, many churches around this country, there's a fear, sometimes a downright antipathy

toward cultural engagement, as though what, as though somehow that is against the gospel or against whatever winsome witness we're supposed to have. Dr. James Kennedy for decades, I mean, in whose pulpit you now stand, he was a vocal advocate of bringing biblical values, which are God's values, God's extraordinary, beautiful, sacred, human affirming values into the culture. And you obviously have followed in his footsteps. What do you make of all the churches that shrink from doing that? Yeah, it's quite unfortunate. I had the privilege as a teenager coming to faith under D. James Kennedy. He was my spiritual father and my mentor, and now consider it a distinct privilege to lead the church that he founded and now the media ministry, D. James Kennedy ministries.

And it's unfortunate that pastors want to shy away from politics. The word politics is simply defined as the affairs of the city. And I often remind our people at Coal Ridge, if politics is the affairs of the city, how in the world are we not? to be involved and engaged in shaping the affairs of the city, the state, and our nation. We have not only historical precedent, as I just mentioned, but we have biblical precedent. We have Joseph engaging Pharaoh. We have Daniel engaging Nebuchadnezzar being an official, a civil official in Nebuchadnezzar's court.

We have all of the men and women that engaged Babylon, not staying on the edge of Babylon, but engaging Babylon, planning houses and building houses and planning crops and engaging in commerce and engaging in politics in Babylon for what reason for the flourishing of all people. We have Jesus in Matthew chapter 5 saying you are the salt of the earth and the light of the world. You are a city on a hill. That word city is polis where we get the word politics from. All throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, we see the call of God's people. to engage culture and part of that cultural engagement is to engage politics.

Look, it couldn't be clearer, ladies and gentlemen. Believe me, if you got this wrong, repent, get it right, very important. We'll be right back. We're talking to Robert Passienza, Pastor at Coral Ridge. We'll be right back. Every day, the parallel economy grows bigger and bigger. It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke propaganda being jammed into every product they consume.

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innumerable voices, a cacophony of voices saying, it doesn't matter. This is the law of the land. This will never change. And by the grace of God, it changed a year ago. We need to celebrate that, folks. We need to celebrate this. This is a moral victory. It is a victory for liberty in America.

It is a victory for life of every kind, not just unborn life, but the idea that life is sacred, there's no way around that. If you are black, if you are a Jew, you were demonized as not quite human as someone we can dispose of. But people rose up, often Christians, and said, no, no, no. The Bible says we are all equal in God's eyes. We are all sacred. We are made in the image of God. and no one can dare to touch these souls.

Well, in America for us, that was the unborn for a long time. And in many states, it still is. But the overturning of Roe v. Wade of the supposed constitutional mandate for taking the life of the unborn, that is gone. We need to celebrate and say, thank you, Lord, for this. So I'm talking to Dr. Robert Passienza. He's the senior pastor at Coleridge Ministries. I, Coleridge, Presbyton Church, and the president, CEO of Dr. James Kennedy Ministries, which for decades has been standing as a voice in the culture. And, you know, Dr. Pausienza, I just have to ask you, why do you think, I mean, it's interesting to see how this has shifted over time.

Most people always saw this as a moral issue. This is a moral issue, just like slavery was a moral issue. But you find people looking away from the immorality of treating human beings in this way or of killing human beings. They look away from that as though that doesn't matter and they just try to say, well, it's just a political thing. Or they shift it and they say it's a women's issue. But half of the unborn who are being murdered are women. So I don't know how they think it's a women's issue. I know it's awful.

but you really have to go back 250 years ago when our nation was founded. It's not opinion. It is fact that the Judeo-Christian worldview was the predominant worldview influencing our founders and the establishment of the American government, including all of our founding documents. And the Judeo-Christian worldview, as we know, is built upon objective truth. And so all of the laws that were granted to people in our nation, All of the rights were defined as inalienable rights that come from God.

And so we believe that, for instance, the doctrine of the Amago Day, the image of God in all people, is what has led to 250 years of flourishing in our society. It's what have ultimately ended the slavery in North America in the 19th century. It's what led to the Civil Rights Act of the 1960s. But what has happened is there's been an attack ultimately on truth. in our nation. That's the bigger conversation. We have attacked truth and what we have been sold as a lie is that we will be more free as a society if we have a purely secular public square. And we bought that lie even inside the church over the last 50 years. If we secularize our universities and our media and our public square and our public institutions, we will be more of a free

people because we're breaking free of the oppressive truths of our founders and of those that have gone before us. I think we can answer that, you know, emphatically and be able to say, how is our nation doing 50 years into this secular push to basically strip God from the public square? We can answer the emphatically that we are not flourishing as a society. We are floundering. And so what happens is when we talk about abortions. when we talk about race, when we talk about marriage and family, if we make them purely political

issues and not moral issues, then it just becomes a subjective debate. Who can argue the loudest? Who has the best defense? Who has the best argument as far as making their case regarding how we define marriage and gender and sexuality and life? Instead, the church needs to say, no, these ideas and these rights are actually steeped in Judeo-Christian worldview, which is built on God's objective, absolute truth. And we don't have the privilege or the right to redefine these ideas that have been sacred

in America and that have led to flourishing. If we want it flourishing society again, we've got to get back to the understanding of how the Judeo-Christian worldview shaped our founders, our founding documents, and the establishment of America 250 years ago. That's what's fascinating to me is how many in the church. how many Christians have bought the lie that it's possible to be neutral, that secularism is neutral. I wrote a book called Is Atheism Dead?

And it's kind of funny, sometimes in the course of writing books, I discover things that just completely blow my mind. And I saw clearly that there is no neutral. When you take God out, you end up with nihilism, which ultimately devolves to satanic values. I don't say that lately. In other words, the idea that we can all have some kind of, you know, tolerant

enlightened culture, ultimately you realize no. The French and the French Revolution were trying to do that. It ends in a blood bath. It ends in exalting human reason

in such a way that it becomes a mockery of God, a mockery of God's values. And we're seeing this now, actually, right? Like a lot of us kind of bought the idea on some level that, okay, well, the battle for same-sex marriage is just about people doing what they want. It really has nothing to do with anything else. Let people do what they want, even if you disagree.

That's what that's about. And as time has passed, we have seen what most of us feared that it does not end there. that when you pull out, you know, these basic tenets, everything begins to crumble, and you end up with something that is just a grotesque mockery, often a willful mockery of God. And I kind of think that's God's mercy to us in a way. He's showing us what happens when you go down this path or this path, that this happy, neutral, secular world that was promised, it's a chimera, it's a phantom.

It does not, it's not possible. And we're kind of seeing that rather clearly right now. Secularism does not lead to more freedom and more liberty. It's the exact opposite. My seminary professor R.C. Sprole wrote a book called The Consequences of Ideas and the Consequences of Secularism we are seeing in full. force today in the 21st century in North America. In order to have our founders understood, in order to have a common liberty for all, you needed a common morality. In order to have a common morality, you needed to have a common belief in an almighty absolute being. So you take away

that absolute being and you create a purely secular public square. You have the loss of a common morality and then you have a loss of a common liberty and freedom for all people. And that is certainly what we are seeing, and it is absolutely destroying our nation, our society, and our cultural institutions. Well, I mean, there's just, there's no doubt about it. And the more I've studied history, the more clear it becomes to me that it was usually Christians bringing Christian values into the cultural sphere, into the political sphere, who brought about the changes that most people would celebrate today, right?

we look at William Wilberforce, a politician, becomes a serious Christian and decides, oh, I guess that means the slave trade is evil. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I would not want to be treated that way. How can I treat others that way? How can my government treat others that way? And we, in Great Britain, we in England call ourselves a Christian nation. So he brings biblical values in and we celebrate the abolition of the slave trade. We celebrate the abolitionists, most of whom were Christians in America, bringing about the abolition of slavery.

These are moral issues. We celebrate the civil rights movement. Jackie Robinson, Rosa Parks, were Christians motivated by their Christian faith. And I just find it extraordinary that we have forgotten that it was Christians bringing Christian values into the public square, into the cultural sphere. saying this is moral, this is immoral, we've got to fight for what is right and moral and true. They never said this is secular. This is a human reason has brought us to this place. Human reason doesn't bring you to justice for all to respect for the lives of all as equal. We'll be right back. We're talking to Dr. Robert Passienza. He's the president's CEO of Dr. James Kennedy

the ministry senior pastor, Coleridge Presbyterian Church. We'll be right back. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such

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a ton of additional sizes and all new colors. Just go to Mypillow.com. Click on the radio podcast square to grab a pair of the all-season slippers for $25. Limited to 10 pairs at checkout. Enter promo code Eric or call 800-978-3057. 870975. for this incredible offer. So please order now. Welcome back. We are celebrating the one-year anniversary of the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Folks, we need to celebrate it.

This is like celebrating, you know, the end of slavery in America. Massapation Proclamation, good thing. The end of World War II. We celebrated when that battle with fascism and, imperial, the imperial Japanese, brutal. When that was over, we celebrated. We need to celebrate the overturning of Roe v. Wade because not only is it a moral victory,

but genuinely lives have been saved. I'm talking to Robert Passienza, a senior pastor at Coleridge, between church in Fort Lauderdale. How many lives have been saved? I was with Abby Johnson, this heroic figure whom I consider a friend, And she was telling me that, yeah, today in Texas, it's virtually impossible to get an abortion.

And I thought, I can't believe I'm hearing that. Like that the overturning of Roe v. Wade a year ago has led to actual success. It's not just a theoretical thing, that the horror of abortion is clearer in a place like Texas than it was a year ago. That people understand, like, yes, I can't do. that's against the law. If I want to do that, I've got to travel to another state, which makes me think about and what is it that I'm doing? So what are some of the practical things that you see coming out of this?

Well, you're absolutely right, Eric. I mean, I've seen numbers anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 babies have been saved over the last 12 months since Roe has been overturned. But we do need to remember. We need to take time, obviously, to celebrate, as you just mentioned, This is a moment to celebrate. This is an opportunity for Christians to be reminded of what happens when they speak up. When they do bring God and they bring their convictions into the public square, they don't privatize their faith, but they act out with a public faith because they believe that the gospel is not only a personal private truth, but a public truth.

So this is a great opportunity to point to what happens when Christians get engaged. But we also need to remember that as the Church of Jesus Christ, although a major battle has been won, the war is not over. So this is not a time to become complacent. We need to now talk to our state officials. We need to be thinking about how do we continue to bring awareness to our local churches. We need to think through ways in which we can mobilize pastors and encourage pastors to speak up not just once a year, but often about the sanctity of human life. This ultimately comes down to the glory of God.

How is God's glory best displayed? It is best displayed through his image bearers. And when we are robbing people of life, the God given right to life to express and to demonstrate the glory of God in their life as an image bearer, we are ultimately robbing the world of the glory of God. And so pastors need to step up. We need to build awareness.

remember that the war is far from over, and now we need to take this battle to our state houses all across North America. And I want to be clear, ladies and gentlemen, I don't care who you are. If you can hear the sound of my voice, God is going to hold you accountable for your silence on these issues. You can't escape that because he's giving you a voice, and when you shrink from speaking the truth, you don't need to be a jerk about it, but you need to understand that you're voice counts. And I know that many, many people, including many people who profess to be Christians,

have been silent in the face of evil. Now, this is one example of the evil that we're facing, but the point is that human beings' lives are being destroyed. Human beings are being caused to suffer. When a woman has an abortion, ladies and gentlemen, do you understand what that does to the woman. Do you understand? Oftentimes, she's been bullied into this. I know this from my wife, because my wife ran a pregnancy center here in New York City. You don't hear this story that women are often bullied into this by boyfriends, by parents, by husbands. It is not a wonderful free choice for them. And even if they're persuaded that it is, they walk around with that wound for the rest of their lives. And many of them don't know that there's forgiveness in Jesus.

And it just cripples them and messes them up and haunts them in their private thoughts. God calls us to love that woman. And if you love women, if you love people, as God commands you you to love them, then you're obliged to speak out on this issue, which is harming women. You're just not hearing their side of the story or you're hearing this one part of the story that it's empowering and it's wonderful, whatever, which is an absolute lie. Even for those who believe it, it's a lie. We've just got a minute in this segment, Dr. Passienza. Your thoughts?

Absolutely. I think that's the other bit of practical advice and call to action for the church. Part of being the church is being the hope of the world, a light to the nations. And we need to be a light to these women that are on the one hand struggling, maybe, with a choice to abort a baby. We need to let them know that the life they're carrying has incredible value, and it's sacred because that life in their womb is created in the image of God.

We need to walk along women that have had abortions and post-abortion recovery care, letting them know that it's not the unforgivable sin, that there is forgiveness and redemption. We need to be talking about this with our children, Deuteronomy 6 churches, that are talking about the sanctity of human life around the living room and the dining room table and having talks early on about the sanctity

of all human life because all life is created in the image of God. This is the church being the church in the 21st century. Folks, in hour two, we have my friend Kevin McCullough. You may know him as Votesradamus. In hour two, in the next segment, we continue with Dr. Robert Passienza of Coral Ridge, Pasperstein Church. We'll be right back. touch and reach you.

Hey there, folks. Welcome back. We're celebrating today, June 26th. What happened two days ago, it was the first anniversary of the Dobbs decision by the Supreme Court, which marks the overturning of Roe v. Wade after five decades. There's a lot of work to be done. I have as my guest, Dr. Robert Paseenza, the senior pastor at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, which has been a heroic church.

James D. James Kennedy was a heroic figure who did not shrink from talking about these things, from understanding that if you're a Christian, you're obliged to talk about these things. And that if you're silent about these things, you're really complicit in enabling them to take over the culture and to destroy lives. So when did you, you know, Dr. Paseenza,

when did you realize that you wanted to go into ministry or that, you know, you wanted to wear the mantle, as it were, of D. James Kennedy? Because as you know, there are some pastors around this country who get this the way D. James Kennedy got it in spades. But there are many who don't. When did you understand this in your own life, that you saw that there is no division between politics and moral issues and our faith? that this is all something that we have to address? I came to faith at 14 years of age through the preaching ministry of D. James Kennedy, and he became, as I said earlier, a spiritual father and mentor of mine. And one of the things he always impressed upon me and those that grew up under his ministry

and his leadership is that there is no secular, sacred divide. That's neoplatonic dualism. but he always impressed upon us the importance of the lordship of Jesus Christ over all of life. We remember Matthew 28, the Great Commission, Jesus says, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given unto me, and that authority has now been transferred to the Church of Jesus Christ. And so we talk about not only, quote, unquote, spiritual things, but we talk about the physical domains of this culture and of this world.

We talk about government and politics and marriage and family and commerce. And so growing up under his leadership and under his mentoring, I knew that the calling of our generation, the next generation of pastors, had to carry this mantle forward. And as many have reminded me over the last seven years that I've been in this position, that if we needed public theologians like D. James Kennedy 50, 60 years ago, how much more do we need? needed today in the 21st century. I mean, there's no doubt about it. And I think what's really horrifying to me is to see the divide in the so-called evangelical church where you have Christianity today espousing the opposite views of what you and I are saying.

And you think, wow, when did that happen? Russell Moore, who, you know, I may have differed with him on some issues, but he is now boldly saying that if you espouse the views that you and I are now espousing, that we are power mongers, that we are mere culture warriors, as though he would have agreed with Wilberforce or probably Bonhofer, he thinks, but he disagrees today on these moral issues, that the church is the conscience of the state, that we are supposed to be voices. for the voiceless or maybe folks like that they're kind of playing a game they redefine the voiceless like the voiceless are you know the marginalized groups uh illegal immigrants or in other words they

they basically uh slice and dice things up in in this fashion so that if you have your values or my values that's power mongering that's culture worrying uh and that is merely about wanting to get power and if you espouse the views they do, well, that's social justice. I mean, there's a great divide in the church. I bring up Christianity today, and I have to say, I don't know that anybody reads that anymore. It's kind of like Newsweek or time. Like, it used to be a thing. It still exists.

But I don't know who can any longer take that magazine seriously. Eric, it's unfortunate. One of our latest initiatives that we launched here at the church is the Institute for Faith and Culture. It's institutefc.org. And if you go on there, it's issues, cultural issues, all from the lens of God's infallible word, helping people have what we call a biblical worldview for all of the issues happening in our culture. We recently tried to get an advertisement about the Institute, because we thought this would be a helpful resource for Christians in this cultural moment, an advertisement published in Christianity today.

And we were unfortunately denied because they said the content. was too political. You've got to be kidding. You have got to be kidding. All right. So the website is institutefc.org. Fc.org. And that institute was denied an advertisement in that magazine because it was deemed too political. I mean, listen, people who listen to this program, they understand Christianity today has gone over to the dark side. I'm sorry to say it. I've been published in Christianity today. They have been increasingly left-leaning for years and years. In 2017, when my Bonhoeffer, sorry, when my Luther book came out, 500th anniversary of the Reformation, I write this big book on Martin Luther, you know, my first biography since my big Bonhoffer book, Christianity today didn't even give

it one line. They didn't even acknowledge its existence. because I guess I had supported the GOP nomination for president who happened to be Donald Trump. They have become so political, folks, this is the irony. They have become so political at Christianity today that they are no longer willing to even talk to or to support the values of people who are coming from a genuinely Christian position. because there's no doubt that Institutefc.org, the Institute for Faith and Culture, that you are behind, you care about what God cares about, but they just said, well, if it's not our politics, it's too political. So that's where we are. Politics has been defined in that way.

Yeah, this is the magazine founded by Billy Graham, who was good friends with our founding pastor, D. James Kennedy. It's quite amazing what can happen in just a matter of decades. Well, I'm sorry we're out of time, but just wonderful to have this conversation with you. Folks, you should go to institutefc.org, and you shouldn't read Christianity today, not that anyone does anyway. Dr. Robert Paseenza, God bless you. Thank you for your time and for your ministry. God bless you, Eric. Hey, the folks.

Welcome back. My two guests today. Dr. Robert Passienza of Coral Ridge Ministries. One of the great churches, you know, I can't say this when I'm talking to the people. I don't want to embarrass them. But Dr. James Kennedy was the pastor at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale for decades. Just one of the heroes of the faith. And the man who stands in that pulpit today, where is that mantle, so to speak,

is my guest today talking about the overturning Arovi Wade. In Hour 2 today, we have our friend Kevin McCullough, who is always just brilliant on current events. You may know him as Votestradamus. I know him as Votesradamus. Sometimes I call him Votesradamus. You know, if we just meet on the street, hey, Votesradamus, how are you doing? but he's he's my guest in hour two today. I also want to remind you a couple things.

The film Nefarious, have you heard of it? It's not by Wes Anderson. No, that's a different film. Nefarious is available at SalemNow.com. The film Nefarious is based on the book by Steve Dase. We've had them on this program many times. It is brilliant. It is absolutely brilliant because it shows the unseen realm

the idea of demonic possession. It's kind of like they keep calling it, screw tape letters meets Silence of the Lambs, right? So it's really, it could be a stage play, actually. It should be a stage play, starring my friend Brad Stein as the death row inmate. But it's a film. You could see it at SalemNow.com.

We recommend it highly. It really will help you, and your teenagers, frankly, if they're inclined to see kind of an edgy film. It will help you to see it. see the spiritual reality behind much of what's going on. And the more you look into this, the more you realize, you know, this is not an opinion. This is reality. Just like, you know, the idea that everything's made of molecules and atoms, it's like, well, I can't see them. Well, well, you don't, you know, sometimes you can't see stuff, but it doesn't change the fact

that we know it's there. We know it's part of what we call reality. And the spiritual reality is something a lot of people dismiss or they kind of act like, well, it's utterly subjective. it's not. There's an objective reality, you know, just like God is God. He may speak to you differently than he speaks to me, but he doesn't change his character. The unseen realm is real. And so the film Nefarious helps us to see that. So I want to encourage you to go to Salem now.com. I should say this weekend, I was in Omaha, Nebraska, at Lord of Host's Church. I just had the best time there. I got to get at Pastor Hank Cooneman on this program. He's kind of amazing, frankly. And I want to, I want to get him on this program. His wife, Brenda, utterly delightful, co-pastors with him there. But it was just a joy to be at Lord of Host Church in Omaha, Nebraska. They don't shrink from the truth, ladies and gentlemen. And you may be, maybe you know Hank Cooneman from Flashpoint on the Victory Channel, but I got to tell you, just a joy to be there. Finally, before we go, I want to

remind you, mypillow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, how do I put this? There are sales and then there are sales. If you go to mypillow.com, okay? Everything you buy there, please tell your friends to use the code. Eric, please, you're helping this program to exist, and it's important for us to exist. If we don't exist, it means we can't exist.

You follow? So you got to use the code Eric at mypillow.com, but they have a sale right now. My slippers are $25. The list price is $149. These are like shoes. Usually you can get them way cheaper than $149, but never, ever, ever, ever can you get them for $25?

There's a limit of $10 per order. $25. Got to use the code. Eric, I want to recommend highly that you do that. Obviously, it's while supplies last. $25. Insane. Mypillow.com.

code Eric. Thank you.