The Eric Metaxas Show - Dwight Chapin

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Dwight Chapin brings an up-close-and-personal look at Richard M. Nixon with an in-depth new book, "The President's Man: The Memoirs of Nixon's Trusted Aide."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey, folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. You know, usually I do this program and I talk to a lot of people. Let's be honest.

They're duds. They have nothing to say. Today, I thought we'd take a different tack. We talked to somebody who's written a book who has a ton to say and to whom I am very excited to speak. His name is Dwight Chapin. Who is Dwight Chapin? He has written a book. This is extraordinary. It's called the President's Man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aide, Dwight Chapin.

Just an honor to have you in the studio. Thank you, Eric. It's great to be here. It's hard for me to believe because you don't seem old. enough to have been Nixon's trusted aid. Both of us were friends with Chuck Colson, who himself was young when he was Nixon's special counsel. Where was he? Yeah, special counsel to the principal. He was 39 or whatever. But you must have been practically a kid. How old were you? And when you say you were his trusted aid, in what capacity did you serve him? So people have a context of the book

that you've written called the president's man? Well, I was 28 when he was inaugurated as president and went into the White House. So my first years in the White House, I was, or first year, I was 28 years old. But when he ran for governor back in 1962, after he lost to Jack Kennedy, he ran for governor in California. And I was 20 years old. And I was hired by the man that would become his chief of staff. Bob Haldeman. I was hired when I was 20 to be a field man in Southern California. So I had

first met him when I was 20 years old. Did you grow up in California? I grew up basically in Kansas until I was 14, and then my family migrated out to California when I was 14 years old, and I went to college out there. So how did you come at age 20 to be so politically astute and involved that you could be hired to work for Nixon's gubernatorial campaign. I got very interested in politics, and a friend of my mother's Kathleen Haidt, who was a writer on gunsmoke, she Wait, now, wait a minute. Say that again. My mother's high school roommate, or yeah, college roommate, was one of the women that created

the show Gunsmoke. I just, when somebody says something like that, I feel if we had the budget, balloons would be released. And, I mean, the idea that that is the case, because that's one of the great American shows. It was at the top of the charts there for decades. So a woman who helped create gun smoke was involved in that. Yes, because she had worked at CBS radio when she first went west to California. And one of her great friends was Charles Collingwood, who was an old broadcaster, very prominent at the time. And he arranged for me to work in the CBS newsroom at the 1960 convention of Jack Kennedy. And I worked for CBS, and I clipped the wire ticker and so forth.

And I was right there among all of the correspondents, Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Eric Severide, taking in copy and taking it back. and shipping it around. And I think that's when I got my first real interest in politics. I thought, there's something electrifying about this. You know, you hear about politics getting into somebody's blood. And I think that's when it got into mind. So when 1962 came around, I didn't have a summer job,

and my dad always insisted I have a job. And he knew somebody that worked in the Nixon for governor's campaign. and Nixon was at this time running, he had lost the candidate and he's going to run for governor. So I went down and interviewed with a young crew cut guy, 38. He was the campaign manager, and his name was Bob Haldeman. Did he ever get rid of that crew cut? Did he sell it to museum?

He did. He got rid of the crew cut when he left the White House. Yeah. Well, Haldeman's famous for things other than his crew cut, but none as anodont. as the crew cut. The thing is that, so you were a very young man. I don't remember, I mean, I know a lot about politics,

but I cannot remember. Did Nixon end up running for governor in 62? I don't remember that. Yes, he ran against Pat Brown. He obviously lost. There we go. Yes, he lost, and that's when he decided to move back to New York. As you know, everybody comes through New York,

and he wanted to be here where the action was, and so he came back to New York. York. And for eight years, he was out of office until he decided to run for president and won in 1968. The wilderness years. Yes. Yes. I remember I was in my own memoir, Fish Out of Water. I referenced being in kindergarten when Nixon was running in 68. My father was a big Nixon man. And it's extraordinary to think how long ago that suddenly all is, which is why I'm so grateful that you decided to put it in a book. Again, it's called the president's man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid. So you work for Nixon in your 20s. It's an amazing thing. You have Encomia from Newt Gingrich,

Henry Kissinger, and Henry Kissinger wrote his blurb in regular English. Normally, it's in that Kissinger accent, that Germanic accent. So you did, you did, you. You know, You must have known Chuck Colson, who, of course, is my principal connection to Nixon. Yes, I knew Chuck. I knew Chuck very well. There's two Chuck's Chuck pre-prison and Chuck post-prison. And it took me a little while to come around and believe that this transformation had taken place. But I spent a lot of time with Chuck after he got out of prison and when he started doing his prison fellowship work.

and I can guarantee, as you very well know, this man carried the Lord in his heart. Well, that's the extraordinary thing is that when a conversion is that dramatic, it is natural to be skeptical. I mean, when Saul of Tarsus said, I'm going to stop persecuting Christians and I'm going to start preaching the gospel, very few of the Christians of that day, many of whom are now officially saints, believed that this could be true. Right. And I'm old enough to remember the sneering at Chuck Colson's conversion to faith. Yes, everybody questioned. This nasty man, you know, how is it even possible?

It's clearly a ploy to redeem himself and so on and so forth. And I've often said that one of the proofs of Christian faith, of Christian conversion, is a life like Chuck Colson. For the people who knew him before, as you did, and after, you just say there's no accounting for that. If I have to solve for X, there's only one answer. It's a miracle. God did something that cannot be achieved through, you know, force of will or a Tony Robbins conference or whatever it is. But to your book here, so what do you cover in the book? I imagine it's a smorgas board of your experiences with Nixon.

Yes, it's full of all kinds of stories. but what I really am aiming to do in my book, and I think I get there very easily, is to tell the story of the man I knew. There's so much misconception about Richard Nixon. You know, most people look at him and think he's either about Watergate or he's about China. But this is a man that served for almost a half a century as a public servant, and he did great things for the country. His accomplishments were significant.

And I try to zero in on the accomplishments, but I spend a lot of time analyzing and explaining why he thought the way he did and where his brilliance came from. This is a man who worked his way up the ladder. I mean, when he was a young man, he'd get up at 4.30 in the morning and go into Los Angeles and pick out the groceries for his father's produce store and then go off to school. Here's a young man who got into Harvard but couldn't go because he couldn't even afford the train ticket, so he went to Whittier.

Here's a guy that they called his nickname at Duke Law School was Iron Butt because he studied, Constantly. We're going to have to pause here. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot have never made a big deal about. But I think it is a big deal. I really do.

They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even until about four to five months after. If you keep ordering it, friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering Relief Factor month after month if it doesn't work. So yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older or to the three week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you at a pain too. Go to relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 838. 8-800-800-500-8384 relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Hey, folks, if you could make money off of abortion or pornography, would you do it? I hope the answer is no.

But I want to tell you, Robert Netsley, the founder of InspireInsight.com, he was the president of his local pro-life pregnancy center when he discovered that he owned investments in three companies manufacturing abortion drugs. Well, God helped him to see that he was making money from abortion. pornography, LGBT activism, and the list goes on. And that's why he created Inspireinsight.com. Inspireinsight.com gives you instant access to biblical values data on over 23,000 stocks, mutual funds, and ETFs so you can invest to the glory of God. You need to go to Inspire Insight.com today and screen your 401ks, IRAs, and other investment

accounts. I did, and I was shocked. Now I'm able to clean out the junk and invest in companies actually doing good things. Go to inspireinsight.com today and register for free. That's inspireinsight.com. Go there. Folks, welcome back. We're talking about Richard Nixon, the president. The book is The President's Man,

the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aide, Dwight Chapin. So, Dwight, really, we are now around the 50-year mark for Nixon's trip to China. You were with him on that trip. I was with him on the trip. I went with Dr. Kissinger first in October of 1971. You can just call him Hank. Yes.

We've known him for 50 years. It's just Hank. Well, Henry. Yeah, with Henry. So you went with Kissinger. I'm wondering also, well, anyway, so, but when we think of history, Nixon's trip to China, that is as historical as it gets. So talk about this.

It's the most historical diplomatic. a trip in history, really. It remains to be that. And it was incredibly complicated. Nixon sent Kissinger over on a secret mission, and out of that came an invitation for Nixon to visit. The president, sitting with him in the Oval Office, said, I'm going to go and I'm going to take nine people with me. We'll go on a jet star. It's going to be understated. It will be all business. and by the time we ended up making all the arrangements and getting it together, 391 people were part of our party. It took several airplanes, and it turned out to be a global event,

because what happened with television, everybody went to China with Nixon, and it was an event unlike any that had ever taken place in the country. And, you know, I'm sorry, the public tuned in in massive numbers morning and night because there was a 12-hour time change between Beijing and the East Coast. So all of the events that we would plan in the morning were on nighttime television here in the United States. I explain all that in the president's man. Well, we have to give some context because there are a lot of people listening who won't understand the geopolitical situation. when Nixon and Kissinger cooked up this genius plan.

We had the Soviet Union existed as a monolith. It was inconceivable that it would ever fall. They were the CNN of their day, ladies and gentlemen. And the idea that the Soviet Union, we were in this Cold War, Nixon was, of course, famously, dedicatedly anti-communist. And so he comes up with this idea of playing Red China against the Soviet Union, which is brilliant. But talk about that because it's fascinating. It's brilliant. And keep in mind, you know, at the center of this, we have the Vietnam War going on.

So he's trying to end the war and he's trying to negotiate all this. In fact, it's quite interesting right. When I saw the picture the other day of Putin over there in China for the Olympics, I thought, whoops, we've moved a long way from what Nixon was trying to accomplish. And actually, we need to figure out how to get this back onto that track. It's interesting, Eric, that 50 years ago, right now, when Nixon was opening up this door to China, He said, in 50 years, we're going to be adversaries, and we've got to be able to talk to one another. And that was one of his key purposes.

So he envisioned that this thing was going to get very complicated, and indeed it has. When you think of somebody as politically astute and as historically astute as Nixon, it's painful to see the current crop of bumblers who seem, they don't seem to know what might happen next week, much less than 50 years. Nixon understood that this was complicated, and of course Kissinger famously coined the term Realpolitik. You know, in other words, you could look at it cynically.

In other words, you could look at it cynically, and there is something dark to the idea of realpolitik. Right. Right. I think it is so consequential that we do not have at the highest level in our government people that think as strategically as Richard Nixon did. He looked at this in the long view. But to keep in mind, here's a man, he had been senator, he had been vice president under Eisenhower, He had been out of office in the wilderness years and traveled the world during that whole time. He thought of how he wanted what he was going to do if he should have the privilege of being elected president.

He was a man that was a consummate workaholic, if you want, that did nothing but try to conceive policy. And that is one of the things I think we really lack today. Well, Nixon was anti-communist, but he was not a conservative in the way that William F. Buckley was a conservative. Even when I say William F. Buckley, I start to sound like William F. Buckley. But because he did expand the government significantly in ways that I think are lamentable. So he was kind of a centrist, but because of, you know, growing up in the 50s or rather serving under Eisenhower in the 50s. He had a sense of the wickedness of communism and why it needed to be pushed against by the United States. Yes, he did. He was very anti-communist. But he, I would use the word, he was incredibly pragmatic.

And it wasn't in terms of the leadership side of things. It wasn't to argue with these adversaries. it was to try to work things out. I just want to add on the Buckley thing, we went to do Crossfire one night, and they had a technical failure. Well, now, no, wait, wait, who's we? This is you, the young man and the president of the United States?

I was a young man, a young aide. It was me. It was Mr. Nixon, who we call it former Vice President Nixon, Pat Buchanan and myself. And we're over having, through the taping of firing line, with Buckley. And the equipment goes down. So, excuse me, this is the 60s, maybe 60s. 168 campaign right before. So we, we end up at Buckley's home over in his brownstone for like two and a half hours. His mazone, his duplex. I've been there. So it's right on 70,

whatever, 74, 72nd and Park Avenue. But the main thing about that was these incredible brains chatting for an hour and a half as we all sat there, mesmerized by this conversation that was going on between two real heavyweights. Oh, it's extraordinary. Just to think that you were there. You should write a book about it. I did write a book about it.

Now, what took you so long to write this book? Because, honestly, this is an amazing effort because there is so much here. It's so significant. Why didn't you write this, you know, 25 years ago? Well, first of all, I kind of have a little bit disdain for the people that leave the White House and write their memoirs 10 minutes later. You know, I believe I have a certain look back here in a perspective after all that's happened to all of us. But I was really motivated by renovating the Nixon.

I was in charge of the renovation of the Nixon Library about two years ago. And in doing that, it came across to me how little. Americans really know about Richard Nixon and what all the misconceptions are. So in my book, I've tried to take and spell out not only the accomplishments, but what it was about this man that made him so special. And why he needs to be studied, why, in my opinion, he is really a role model of the kind of diplomat and statesmen that we need to be cultivating now. So what are some of the moments that you remember?

Because people always, you know, the one thing that those of us who weren't part of that world cannot experience, we can look at the big picture. But you were there in these small moments. I mean, it's extraordinary to me that you were with him when he was with Buckley at Buckley's home. And you're listening to this kind of thing. You must have realized that at the time that whether Nixon were to win or not, it's nonetheless historical. Yes. Well, I would say one of the most memorable things to me, and I talk about this in the book, was early in the administration, the buzzer went off. And when he pushed a buzzer, I went right into his office.

And he said, here, give these to Rose. And Rosemary Woods was his secretary. The famous Rosemary Woods. And he handed me a bunch of, about five or six handwritten letters. and the tears were coming down his face. And they were letters that he had written to parents of youth that had been killed in Vietnam. And, you know, Nixon was a Quaker. I mean, he believed in peace at the center.

He did not believe in war. And so, I mean, a moment like that is especially one that rings with me. And one other that's quite interesting, I think. We were landing in Rome. Actually, hang on just a moment. We were landing in Rome. We'll be right back with the rest of that sentence. The book is The President's Man.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record in front,

inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable. Gold is one of the best ways to protect your retirement. No matter what happens, you own your gold. It is real, it is physical, it's always been valuable since the dawn of time. Legacy precious metals is the company I trust for investing in gold. They can help you roll your retirement account into a gold-backed IRA where you,

you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metal safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at LegacyPMinvestments.com. Hey there, folks. Have you ever looked for a business podcast? You're into business, but you also like to be entertained. So maybe you're looking for a funny business podcast. Well, obviously some of them try to be funny.

They're just not actually funny, which is a problem. But I think we have the answer for you. if you like business news and current events with the side of actual comedy, I think you want to listen to. Okay, Albin, I can't say this with a straight face. I'm going to try. Ready? Okay, here it is. It's called IP Frequently. The hosts are David and Brad and IP frequently is solid business advice that tends to lean right, kind of conservatism with 80s music and current events. They're calling it the unicorn of business podcasts. I don't know if that's a good thing. If it's funny, probably a good thing. They're also calling it the Holy Grail of business podcasts. So subscribe to IP frequently and stay up to date on their weekly stream of episodes. Wherever you get your podcast,

go to IP Frequently.com. That's the letter I, the letter Pfrequently.com. Folks, welcome back. We're talking to Dwight Chapin, the author of the president's man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid 50 years ago. You were with him during all of this historic stuff. And you were just sharing another moment, a personal moment. Yes. The moment was that we were getting ready to land in Rome. And one of the

visits we were going to make was to the Vatican to see the Pope. And he called in his military aid. Was it Pope Paul? Yes, I believe. I believe it was Pope Paul. I'm just trying to guess. You would have that. Yeah, I think so. So what he said to his military aid,

He says, I want you to check around Air Force One and find out who's Catholic. And then he invited all that were Catholic, plus some of us that were not Catholic, that were part of the official party, to go with him for the meeting with the Pope. And I'll never forget this little Filipino steward who was standing there and the President of the United States introduces the steward from Air Force. force one to the Pope and this young man with the tears coming down his face, one of it had to be the greatest moment in that man's life. And I mentioned that because Nixon had that kind of sensitivity and would do things like that and no one ever knows about it. It's funny because Nixon, what happened in the 60s and Nixon, one way or the other, kind of fell fell into it, he became the sort of oer boogeyman of the left, the one whom everyone had permission

to hate because whatever it was. He was, he somehow represented, I guess when you think of the climate of the 60s, he became someone that was, he gave a face to what people believed they hated or they were against or something like that. So he's been. and so vilified in the 50 years since then, you know, unless you knew him personally or have a different view. And so it is interesting to hear about these human moments that you describe what he was actually like. And he had his weaker moments as captured on some of the tapes, unfortunately. But the question is, who hasn't had weak moments and terrible moments? The only thing is that either we didn't tape them or we had the good sense to burn the tapes.

Just kidding. It's still hard for me to believe that you were with him in China. How many days was he there for this trip? He was there for a complete week. And he said at the banquet, it was the climates of the trip. When the Shanghai communication was issued, he said, this was the week that changed the world. and about 20 some years later, we did an event in Washington at the Peace Center,

and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton came over and talked, and she said to say that it was a week that changed the world was one of the great understatements. Well, now it is, of course, complicated because, as you said earlier, Nixon was smart enough, precient enough to know that we would have trouble with China in the future. It strikes me that a lot of cavalier conservatives had this happy, clapy idea that, oh, you know, the free market is the Messiah. That if we have free market, it will lead to every kind of freedom, which is nonsense, doesn't make any sense. And practically speaking, of course, will never happen and didn't happen. But it doesn't seem that Nixon fell into that in the way that, let's say, President Clinton and President George W. Bush did.

I think that they were genuinely naive about China. Yes. The idea was that if we got all of this commerce going, that the Chinese orientation of their communism and everything else would start falling by the wayside, that has proven not to be the case. In fact, things may be tighter. there and now than they've been in generations. And there's no question that commerce matters and that we need to have it, but it's got to be secondary to the foreign policy aspects and particularly how these nations conduct themselves. And I think one of the great things that President Trump did was to elevate this whole awareness of what was going on with the Chinese. And, and, and, and, you know, and,

and basically start waking up our nation. And that is still underway. And I think it's catching. I think the public's getting it. But a lot of credit to President Trump for bringing that to the forefront. There's absolutely no question about that. The nefariousness of the communist Chinese.

It's unthinkable to most Americans because most Americans haven't had to deal with that level of evil. And so it takes us time to understand that those people will stop at nothing to gain power, to do what's necessary. And many, of course, in our own country, have helped this along. But I guess that's nothing new. I mean, there were many people, you know, from Lillian Hellman on in the 30s and 40s, who were apologists for Stalin, I mean, which seems somehow more shocking.

It's a fight. Americans need to understand that this is not some nice thing going back and forth. We're talking about ideological overcoming of other nations, and the Chinese have got to be put into the proper context, and our people have to understand what's at stake here. And I don't believe that the majority of the population knows. that. Not yet they don't, but we keep talking about it. By God's grace, they will wake up, and some are waking up. We'll be right back with the author of the president's man, the memoirs of

Nixon's trusted aide, Dwight Chapin. Hey, folks, if you listen to this program, of course, you've heard me talk at infinitum about my pillow and my friend Mike Lindell. Well, Mike has just announced that, you You will receive one of his books, and the book is next level insane. It is called What Are the Odds from Crack Addict to CEO? It's his story. You will receive it absolutely free with any purchase using the promo code Eric. Did you hear that?

It would be a great time, by the way, to buy his warm and wonderful, my slippers. For a limited time, he's offering 50% off my slippers. We all wear them in my extended family, my slippers. Check it out. 50% off. Go to mypillar.com. Click on the radio listener square and use promo code Eric. You'll also get deep discounts on all my pillow products, including some overstock products, such as individual towels, blankets, comforters, and much more. Or call 800-978, 3057. That's 800, 978-3057. To use the promo code, Eric. Hey there, folks. Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley wrote that this is the book we've been waiting

50 years for filled with new details on every page and beautifully written, it will force us to reassess Richard Nixon yet again. That's funny because the reassessment of Nixon does continue. Every now and again, we get either another book or another person talking about a side of Nixon. and he's not the figure of fun, the tricky dick that he was during Watergate. He emerges as a dramatically more complex figure. Eventually he becomes, you know, the sage of, is it Saddle Ridge, New Jersey? Saddle River. Saddle River, New Jersey.

He had an extraordinary post-presidency kind of amazing that he would meet with people and provide. Were you able to stay in touch with him after the presidency? I did stay in touch with him, and you're absolutely right. In fact, one of the most treasured invitations that are, quote, elite leaders around the country would receive is to be invited to dinner in Saddle River with Richard Nixon. And all of the people from the liberal establishment that knocked him when he was in office fell over themselves trying to get invites to Saddle River

so they could hear the wisdom that he brought forward. You know, he wrote something like nine books after he left office. Actually, if you had to put a tag on it, he was former president, statesman, and author. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I mean, yeah, it seemed like every few years he would come out with some significant book. He worked hard on, though.

Very hard. I mean, that was his love. traveling and coming back and putting this pen to paper and trying to put forth what he thought was in the policy interest of the country. So other than this book, you yourself have not written books. I have not written another, I wrote a novel, but the novel has yet to be published. This book is much more important than any novel I could have written. It's kind of funny when you talk about novels. I was thinking no matter what that novel is like that is not yet. published. We all know it's better than the sound and the Fury by William Faulkner. Don't read that book.

Don't waste your time. What have you done since you left the White House? What kind of career have you been in all these decades? Yes, I published a magazine called Success for 13 years. I loved doing that. That was in Chicago. And then I went out to Asia, and I was the head of the Hill and Knowlton Public Relations firm office out in Hong Kong and ran the Asian operations. And then after that, I started my own firm and did consulting and strategic planning and marketing work every sense. And have you stayed in touch with some of the Nixon old hands? I've stayed in touch with every Nixon old hand except for John Dean. John Dean.

I remember, this is not a joke, when I was first hired to work for Chuck Colson, I hadn't even started yet. And I flipped on the TV. And so this must have been 1999. And who is on Charlie Rose, but John Dean? And I listened to John Dean. I barely recognized him from, you know, the Watergate era, and listened to him talk in his bitterness. and he even said things, nasty things about my future boss and friend Chuck Colson on the Charlie Rose program. And I was astonished to hear these things.

I think he was cynical. He was kind of stuck in the mode of cynicism with regard to Chuck that Chuck has just reinvented himself and there's nothing new. He's still the White House hatchet man who'd run over his grandmother to reelect the president. But so apart from Dean, nonetheless, you have stayed in touch with a lot of the folks. I assume Patrick Buchanan is one of them. Yes, he is. He's a great friend, a trusted friend.

I want to say a word on Dean. In the book, at the back of the book, there's an appendix, and we have some tapes from John Dean and Nixon in the Oval Office. And the way that it can work, a reader can go to those transcripts, and we tell them precisely how to go on the Internet and where to go on the internet, and they can hear the actual voices of Dean and Nixon talking. And what it proves beyond any doubt is that from the Watergate,

the time that it happened in June of 1972, through to March of 1973, when Dean met with Nixon in the Oval Office, he never told the president the truth of. of what happened. And we have this documented. It's one of the most important things in the book. Now, when you say that Dean never told the truth of what happened, what was it that he was being quiet about? And why do you suppose he was doing that? Dean did not tell the president the truth because John Dean was at the central, he was at the heart

of what happened. We have an FBI report in the back of the book that it calls John, This was written three years later for the director of the FBI after their investigation, and they label him the master manipulator of Watergate. And John Dean didn't tell the president what the truth was because he didn't want to expose his culpability. It's unbelievable. Well, I'm glad that you are setting this record straight because it is fascinating. When we think of the nefariousness of subsequent administrations, it makes whatever Nixon did look almost like nothing. Well, let me be clear here.

Richard Nixon was on with David Frost, and he apologized to the nation for his role in this. But you need to look at how it ended up that he got into it. And he was very miserved by an unfaithful aid. named John Dean. It's extraordinary. History is important, ladies and gentlemen. Facts are important. Don't base your opinions on semi-facts.

We're talking to the author of the president's man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid. Dwight, just a few seconds in this segment. What was the last time you laid eyes on Nixon? Oh, I believe we were at a reunion. union, maybe three or four months before he died. Wow. We're going to be right back, continued conversation with Dwight Chapin.

The book is The President's Man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid. Welcome back. The book is the president's man, Dwight Chapin. So you were with him from when you were a very young man to the very end of his life. Did Nixon change in your eyes? Was he a different man shortly before his death than he had been in the presidency in any way? Yes, I believe he changed. I met him when he was first after he had just been vice president. And like with anyone, I mean like with Dr. Kissinger, any of these men, I mean, they are getting older. They are getting that thing called wisdom, wiser, and they are working at a different pace. There's more space in discussions and thinking about things. So President Nixon, to me, was always the same man, but there was just this shifting and more of a relaxed thing about him.

He, in the days when he's running for office and dealing with the political issues, that calls for basically a different kind of social. psychic than when you've moved to being an author and you're looking back and reflecting. Bill Clinton had an interesting comment. He talked about Nixon's trip to Russia. Right before Nixon died, he went to Russia. And he came back and he wrote this very long memorandum to President Clinton, analyzing everything that was going on in Russia.

So it was kind of a prospective mentality. Wait, so Nixon died and why? what, was it, 2002 or something like that? And you're saying he went, so after the Soviet Union had fallen, Nixon went back. I didn't remember that. Oh, yes. And one of the things he always did was to talk to all of the leaders on the way up

that weren't not necessarily in power. So he never just relied on talking to whoever was running a country. He wanted to talk to the opposition. to the others involved. And he made that a practice throughout his whole political career. But he wrote this memorandum that President Clinton has talked about often. It's amazing what's happening with Russia today. I personally don't understand.

It strikes me that the reason we're in the mess we're in is because of the almost unprecedented weakness of the American presidency, that the weakness of America because of Joe Biden is so extraordinary that it is as dramatic an invitation to malice as you could ever see, whether to China and Taiwan or Russia and Ukraine. And I simply wonder what Nixon would make of where we are today. Well, it would be fascinating to know. he read a book that Charles de Gaulle wrote when Charles de Gaulle was a young man called The Edge of the Sword. And I talk about this in the book.

In that book that DeGle wrote, he talked about the need for the leader to be kind of separate from those that he's leading. One thing that's happened in America, in my opinion, is that our leaders have tried to be friends, if you will, to the general population. That's why it's almost like they take an entertainer's approach to having fans versus a separation that leads to a more thoughtful leadership. That is very, very, okay, we're going to drag you over into our two. Lock the doors, folks.

We'll be right back talking to Dwight Chapin. The book is The President's Man.