The Eric Metaxas Show - Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, author of "The Truth Is No Defense," talks about how the world pandemic is effecting her own country of Austria, currently part of "a steady descent into a police state."

Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. I just found out I'm supposed to be someplace else right now. So my sincere apologies, but I simply won't be able to introduce today's host, Mr. Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. You're not going to believe this, but according to my calendar, today is Wednesday. And if that's true, it means that tomorrow is Thursday, which is the National Day of Prayer. We've talked about this with Pat Boone. In fact, in our time, two of the program today, we're going to re-air my interview with Pat Boone, where we talk about the National Day of Prayer. But I just want to get you ready for hour two. It's worth listening to a second time if you've already listened to it. If you haven't already listened to it, it's not

worth listening to a second time. Does that make sense? No, it doesn't make sense. But that's hour two. We have Pat Boone. But perhaps even more exciting right now, this is crazy. In hour one, I'm talking to a friend who is in Austria, Elizabeth Sabatish Wolf. How do we pronounce your name? I never get it straight. In Austria, it would be Elizabeth. Elizabeth Sabatish Wolf. But how do we say it, Elizabeth?

How do we say it in America? Elizabeth Sabatage Wolf. That's easy for you to say. And you might not. Well, you're doing a great walk. What do you know? Listen, you, I, I, I, You've been on this program before, and I think of you as someone who really, who gets the big issues of liberty and free speech.

And we've talked about this in previous programs. But you sent me an email recently where you were talking about what's going on in Austria. In other words, in America, in New York City, you know, we've got all kinds of issues with this pandemic. But because it's a global pandemic, I have sometimes forgotten that people, all around the world are dealing with this in their own ways. And what you said to me in your email was so chilling, I thought it would be wise to get you on the program so we could hear you explain it to us. Now, by the way, I don't want to forget right behind you,

if people are watching on video is your book, The Truth is No Defense. The Truth is No Defense. It's an important book. And of course, you're the author. and we've talked about that previously on the program. People can watch that at the YouTube channel for the Aircomataxi show. But right now, on this day, Wednesday in Austria,

tell us what is happening or explain what you've already explained to me in that email. Well, first of all, I'm not in Vienna because I decided to pack up my daughter to, you know, I'm basically exiled. I'm in the mountain areas in the southwest of Austria. I'm about an hour's drive away from Italy. And my husband, who was in the Army, a medical doctor in the Army, told my daughter and me right at the beginning when the shutdown began in mid-March to pack up and leave. Get out of the city right now. It's time to leave.

Schools were closing and we needed to get out of there. It was very chilling because the same day, he wanted to join us actually. And in the middle of the night, he was called to barracks, which has never happened before in the 20 years of our marriage, that he was called to barracks to prepare his hospital, which he is in charge of, for patients of this new virus that no one really knows anything about. So just to remind my viewers, your husband is a medical doctor in the Austrian army. Yes, correct. and he is in charge of the largest hospital, army hospital in Austria. So he knows what he's doing. He's seen war.

He's seen combat. He's, you know, he's been taken hostage before. So he knows what he's doing. And if he is recalled to barracks to prepare the hospital, it sounded, the situation sounded very serious. Now, so we packed up four-hour drive from Vienna, and my daughter and I set up camp here in our little house in the prairie, in the mountains, actually. And what I've been witnessing, and it doesn't really make a difference if I'm, you know,

I'm in Vienna or in the mountains, is a very steady descent in Austria is descending into a police state. You said, I'm sorry, not dissent. You said descending. Descending into a police state. into a police state. We've seen elements of that, of course, in the United States, but it sounds like it's worse from what I read. So talk about that, if you would.

What is going to? Well, the situation is, you know, we don't have the kind of constitution that you have with all the, we don't have a sort of bill of rights. We don't have the rights given to us. by our creator, our rights are granted by the government, the European Union, basically anyone. And if those rights are granted by the government, they can be taken away by the government very easily. And what I've witnessed is within just a few days, actually, in mid-March, I would say until March 22nd, 25th, something like that.

it was a sweeping removal of our rights. We could not congregate. We couldn't meet. We couldn't go out. We were prevented from going out, which later on, when those rights were somewhat returned to us, the government said, oh, you have those rights all along, but we just wanted to scare you. We wanted to make you afraid. We wanted you to comply.

and we applaud you for complying. So the government, as always, is not honest with us. So it was basically fearmongering, scaring people into compliance, and it worked. It really did. I have to say, Elizabeth, before you continue, that is very interesting. In other words, we don't have that by the grace of God yet in the United States, where the ruling class typically treat those self-governing citizens as their subjects. What you've just said sounds as though the government, the state in Austria, really has a different view.

It's treating you as subjects to ruled. The idea that they would somehow arbitrarily decide that. you need to be scared or they need to send a message or something, that really is, is chilling because it crosses that line. So what you've just said, you know, even though it's not horrific in terms of, you know, killing or anything like that, but it crosses a line. And that, that to me is quite chilling that you were in that treated as subjects of a ruling establishment. That's exactly what has scared me. And of course, the government tells us, well, we're sort of in charge of your health, of public health.

So because we're taking care of you, you need to follow these rules. And it's basically a balance of, well, how many deaths justify the killing? And I'm saying, I'm using the word killing in this very, on purpose. How many deaths justify removing your civil liberties? Where do we draw the line? I mean, is it a thousand deaths in three months? Hey, we have more than a thousand deaths in three months. I mean, that's, that's crazy. You have, in the entire United States, you have, I don't know, what is it, 23,000 deaths a day, something like that, or maybe even more. And another chilling point is we have a police

minister, a minister of interior and I'm telling you, I mean, he's on television almost every single day and he reminds me and I of course 19th century Metternich. Metternich was a very feared police minister during the

upheaval, the revolutionary times in the Austrian Empire, not, it wasn't Hungarian Empire yet, the Austrian Empire. So Mettern very famous guy, police snitching on people, police. I mean, we're descending into a police state. We have police officers actually walking up to single mothers in a park. Forgive me, I didn't realize this is the 10-minute segment.

We're going to have to cut you off. We'll be right back. I'll let you finish that sentence. My apologies. Hey, folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Elizabeth Savage, Wolf. Her book is The Truth is No Defense. And Elizabeth, I just cut you off in the middle of a sentence.

You are right now in Austria. That's where you live. You're not in Vienna. But you were just telling us about how it sounds like you're descending into a police state. You know, as though going back to the times of metternich, or how do you say it? Metternich. Yeah, metternich. Well, we don't say it that way here.

But let me just say you were in the middle of explaining something and we had to go to a break. So please continue. Well, we have, you know, I used to always think the cops are my friends. Now, this is really changed since this whole COVID crisis because the police are now not our friends anymore. They are the ones enforcing those idiotic, stupid rules that were drawn up by the Minister of Health and the Minister of Interior. So we have cops swarming around, especially in the big cities, of course, finding single mothers 500 euros, which is approximately the same in dollars, for sitting in a park allowing their children to play ball,

for not following the social distancing rule. I mean, I'm always thinking, do I have to walk around with a ruler now, with, you know, a measuring, whatever you call it? I mean, is this what we're, is this how we want to live? imagine also you have a ban on kissing in public. This is new. This is now the Minister of Health starting May 1st. I don't believe what you just said.

I do not believe what you just said. Wait a minute. Look, we're talking, this is not North Korea. This is not Saudi Arabia. You're talking about Austria. And you are telling me that there's a ban on kissing in public. Can you give me their reasoning for this ridiculous? Yes, very easy.

Yeah, of course I can give you the reason. Social distancing. Because how are you going to, I mean, the police are going to ask you, are you actually living in the same household with the person you're kissing? So you're going to have to prove you're either kissing your daughter or your son or your husband or whoever, but you have to prove that you're in the same household. Now, is there no sense of rebellion left among the Austrian people? Because I would like to think that in America, if that were the case, I would kiss everyone.

I mean, I cannot believe how draconian and ridiculous and insulting and offensive this is. I would walk around with my wife and kiss on purpose just to poke a stick. in the eyes of those who say I shouldn't do it. It's amazing to me that you're telling me this. I really can't believe that. Eric, this is something that you and I would do. I mean, I would even go around kissing you, honestly. You know, I really wouldn't care because the rule is so stupid.

But it is understandable in the sense that they're saying the government and the rules and it's not even, yeah, it's not even a law in the, you know, I would need a constitutional lawyer to explain it because I'm not a lawyer. But of course, because you're supposed to practice social distancing in public, so you can't go around kissing. So you ask me about, is there any sort of demonstrations? Well, until last week, demonstrations were prohibited. And the police did, in fact, stop any, you know, congregations in public. there were two or three demonstrations last Friday because it was May Day.

You know, it was Labor Day in Austria and most of Europe. And there were demonstrations. But in the media, these people were denounced as conspiracy theorists, corona deniers. You know, this is, you get the sense. You know, don't go to these. We have some of that here. We've had that in Michigan where we have a mayor who, you know, she's a, a martinet. There's a word I haven't used on this program. And she, she seems to enjoy, you know,

this idea that she can exercise this somehow arbitrary power. And there have been demonstrations. And, you know, there's two sides to the story in the sense that, of course, people should be able to demonstrate. But I guess that my point is that when you in Austria, because I can only speak for the United States. But do you feel that this has a timeline? In other words, is this something that's going to change in the next few months? What is your sense of that? Well, I'm afraid it's not going to because I, you know, in my mind, I will never forget, Ram Emmanuel. Ram Emmanuel said, never let a good crisis go to waste. And this is exactly what we're witnessing right now and it doesn't really matter if it's an australian germany in the united kingdom uh even in the u.s

you know he where does it end we don't have you know i i like to say we are in in a sort of an open air prison but we don't have a sense of our release state because the government is not telling us so what are the actual factors uh what are the the doctors the biologists what are they tell the experts saying When is this going to end? They're not going to tell us because they're interested in keeping us silent. They're trying, they're not, you know, we now have to wear masks everywhere, so we all look the same. We have no facial expressions anymore. We're being called, I have to tell you that.

The Minister of Interior actually tells us he created a new word. Instead of calling the people who criticize the government's lockdown measures, murderers or potential murderers, he coined the word life and danger. So if you don't follow the rules, he actually calls you a life endangerer. You don't want to be that, right? What is the German? What's the German term? Leibons-gefairder.

In danger to be a fear-giverden. That sounds even worse. I have to tell you, you know, again, I always want to try to help educate my audience if they don't already know these things. But what we're talking about, it always makes sense to go back to the 1933, the Reichstag fire, right? In other words, when somebody wants control, they seize a crisis. This is the former Obama advisor, the former mayor of Chicago. Ramamai, you said you never let a crisis go to waste. Hitler in 1933, of course, used the pretext of the Reichstag fire to declare, you know, emergency. I can't remember the exact term. But in a sense, to wipe away what rights people had because they had to, because it was an emergency. But what's interesting, it's kind of like when taxes are raised or something like that or when the government is increased for some reason, there's a, like a new department, it never goes back to where it was before.

That's the key, right? It never goes back. So people say that, you know, there's going to be an extra toll or an extra tax or there's going to be a department of so-and-so because we need to do that right now. But it never seems to go back. It never seems to revert. And when Hitler took power, of course, you know, the assumption would be this is for six months.

This is for in ancient Rome, obviously, you could be maybe we would need a dictator. for six months or for we would renew that. We would need special powers, but then it would go away, even in ancient Rome. But in the current climate, these things seem to just go on and on. You just said that nobody's giving a date. Nobody feels any compulsion to defend the revoking of these rights of Austrian citizens. And that is very chilling. I have to say this is amazing to hear this.

It's a very bleak time here in Austria. I can tell you that. And for someone like me, who freedom for me is the most important feeling. And honestly, I have to tell you, for those of you who've read my book, and if you haven't, please do read it. When this crisis began back in mid-March, I did have to. the bout of post-traumatic stress is ordered because, you know, I know what it feels like to be stuck in a place, not to be able to leave, to be at the mercy of a dictator who at the time

was Saddam Hussein, I was stuck in the Austrian embassy in Kuwait, and I was not allowed to leave the house. So I know what it feels like, and it bothers me a lot, because freedom means everything to me, everything. I don't want to be stuck and I don't want to be masked. Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing thing to have to wear a mask in public. It's an amazing thing, as you're saying in Austria, that people aren't allowed to kiss. It doesn't seem real, does it? It seems like we've leapt 20 years into a dystopian future that's unimaginable.

We're going to go to a break. Folks, I'm talking to Elizabeth Sabatish. Wolf. Her book is The Truth is No Defense. We recommend it, and we recommend the previous conversation. Go on YouTube to the Eric Metaxa show, and you can listen to our conversation. We'll be right back. There's a chance you won't be leaving with me. And afterwards, we drop into a quiet little place and have a drink for two. Christian bestselling author and speaker Richard E. Simmons does not shy away from the big questions of life. his latest book is called reflections on the existence of God, and it tackles the biggest question of all,

does God exist? I've read this book, and I got to tell you, I'm a little biased, but you can imagine that I like it a lot, because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says, I've taught a apologetics for many years and I've read every scholar mentioned in this book. Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays, perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend. I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list.

Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how important this is to me. Your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself life's toughest questions. Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of Godbook.com. That's existence of Godbook.com. Darker shame, darling, dark a shame. Thank you for all the joy and pain

picture show. Hey folks, it's the Eric Metaxus show. Before I continue my conversation, I want to remind you that at Metaxistock.com, we have a new banner, a brand new banner for Angel Tree, that's the Prison Fellowship arm, that helps the children of those who are incarcerated. And we're doing a fundraiser this month alone to help those kids. We want everyone to participate. As you know, if you participate, you are entered into a grand prize drawing.

If you win, it's like a truck backs up to your house and just like dumps autograph. But it's insane. So just give anything you like and you'll be entered. You go to Metaxistock.com and click on the banner. Please participate and explain this to your kids. It's a beautiful idea. We're talking to Elizabeth Savage Wolf. She's the author of The Truth is No Defense.

She is this minute in Austria, about an hour north of Italy. Now, of course, the north of Italy has been the hardest hit, Elizabeth. But I don't assume that has any spillover, so to speak, into where you are. Well, that's exactly what the government used to scare people into compliance. The government told us, in no uncertain terms, in mid-March, Look, we have this crisis in northern Italy. It's going to spill over into Austria. We're going to, the chancellor, the Austrian chancellor even told us there will be 100,000 deaths in Austria.

And everybody will know someone who died of COVID-19. Of course, nothing of the sort happened. And strange enough, the area that I'm currently residing in, very close to the Italian border, has the least. least COVID cases in all of Austria. Now, makes you figure, you know, what's the big deal? And I really don't understand what the big deal is. The government made mistakes early on. They should have closed the borders much sooner.

They did not. I remember flying into Vienna airport in, what was it, on March 1st, actually, from Washington. and nobody asked me, where have you been? Have you had any contact with a lot of people? Yes, in fact, I did because I was at CPAC 2020, so I had lots of people and I did lots of hugging. Nobody asked me. There were no fever checks. I never had anyone take my temperature. And those were really grave mistakes made by the government. And nobody really really. really, you know, held, has so far held the government accountable for these major mistakes.

Those were blunders. And, I mean, there was blunder after blunder after blunder. And people still don't believe, citizens of Austria still don't believe that the government made any mistakes. You have to understand, the government now has a favorable rating of about 70 to 80 percent. approval rating. What do you mean? 70 to 80%. That's the people saying they approve the government?

Yeah. They approve all the government's actions. And it's just baffling. And I can't understand it. I mean, people are saying, well, you know, we need to save ourselves. We need to save people. I mean, I actually go to the grocery store and I don't wear a mask. I'll just wear a scarf, barely fulfilling the required.

of covering my nose and my mouth. And I actually had someone, the cashier, tell me, well, next time you need to wear a mask. And I look at her and I say, no, I don't because the rules are very clear. You either wear a mask or you use some other mechanical device to cover your nose and your mouth. And then she said to me, well, you know, you just need to take care of your health. That's the only reason we're doing this. And, you know, I just wanted to tell her, look, you know, my health is my business.

It doesn't concern you. I would have coughed on her. I have to tell you, when I hear this kind of stuff, you know, I've got a hair trigger. It's all the hot Italian blood in me. I'm not at all Italian, but it's just kind of an amazing thing, really, that I always noticed this, and I always found this kind of funny, that if you travel through Europe, you notice these cultural things, right? I mean, I noticed, I remember right after college, I travel all around Europe. And in every country, you notice the culture, right?

So in Italy, there's sort of a level of comfortable chaos, you know. Yeah. When you get to Germany, it's pretty strict. I remember if you cross the street against the light, which in America, we do all the time. Like, you look around. Especially in New York. And in New York, right? And if you do that in Germany, they look at you like, what?

What? Like, you can't do that. What are you doing? But in Switzerland, they rebuke you. They, like, openly rebuke you, you know? And it's interesting, those of us who live in America, which, you know, we are, we're free here. Even in blue states and blue places like New York, there's just an innate sense of cultural freedom. But it is interesting how different it can be in different parts of Europe.

So it's just, I wanted to get your perspective on this. It is amazing. So do you really have no sense of when you can, you know, resume your life? You have no sense at all. There's been no guidelines or anything. Well, the only guideline right now is my daughter goes back to school, June 3rd, for just a few days because summer break starts, I think, July 7th. So she goes back for a few days. She's really looking forward to it.

high school seniors went back two days ago on Monday. So my daughter is really looking forward to returning to school. And I have to tell you, I am really enjoying spending quality time with my beautiful daughter. That's the best part. We're going to go to a break, but that's the best part. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Bend and low at the people's feet on the windy corner of the dirty street.

Will I ask him while he shine my shoes, how to keep from me? Welcome back. This is an international program, folks. We are talking to someone who claims to be in Austria. We have no proof, but we know that Elizabeth Sabatish Wolf is Austrian and she's probably telling the truth. We have no way, Elizabeth of knowing, because we're all in bunkers, right? I mean, we could all be anywhere. But you're giving us a perspective on what's been going on in Austria. And what is, what are you thinking about the months ahead because it is, it is a bizarre thing. People have canceled a lot going into the future. Like you kind of think, really? I mean, you're canceling stuff in, in August. I mean, won't we be normal by then? And what is the situation with regard to the economy? Because here, when you shut things down the way they've been shut down, it's very, very frightening for our economy and, you know, our future. The economy is completely shut, or was completely shut down. We, reopened for business in,

what was it, April 14th, the day after Easter Sunday, so it was Easter Monday or Tuesday. So it was a step-by-step process of reopening. We're still in the process of reopening. Schools reopened two days ago on Monday. You're ahead of us. I mean, we're still not there. I mean, we're, you know, all of the stores are closed.

I mean, you know, it's extraordinary. The restaurants don't reopen until May 15th. Now, honestly, I'm not really interested in going to a restaurant because I have to wear a mask. Every time I enter a restaurant or go to the bathroom, I can only take it off if I'm eating or drinking. And I can only meet with two other people. What's the point? Do you honestly think I'm going to spend money to sit there and be policed again by someone. Sorry, not interested. Another, there's no real sense of when, for instance,

this is very dear to my heart and my daughter's heart, when culture life will reopen. Yes, there will be museums reopening on June 1st as far as I know. But, you know, my daughter and I always go to the theater and I, you know, I just recently opened my calendar and I saw, you know, page after page after page of opera performances and musical performances that I am now missing. And it breaks my heart. I mean, we were looking forward to Bernstein's wonderful town, Cole Porter's Kiss Me, Kate. We were looking forward to, I mean, magnificent opera performances in the Vienna State Opera. And honestly, there's no sense of when opera or performing arts will reopen anytime.

soon because right now the rules are every person has to social distance and every person has one square meter probably one square foot or something of personal space that you need to have now how are you going to fill a theater with every other seat of you know unoccupied right everybody wearing a mask how we're going to sing an aria armors need to social distance too so that's going to be That's exactly. How are we going to perform Romeo and Juliet? Instead of six trumpets, maybe we're only going to have three trumpets. That's going to be tough. It is not going to work.

This is crazy stuff. I mean, honestly think that a person who would pay 300 bucks for the best ticket in the Vienna State Opera to see social distancing the opera, the opera Romeo and Julia. It is not going to happen. I will not sit in an opera for three hours. with my mask on, suffocating, choking. Not going to happen. And then the question, will Romeo and Juliet be allowed to kiss?

No. Can you imagine? That's really, that's on everybody's mind. Will they be allowed to kiss? Let me ask you, just because we've got, you know, three minutes left, the book behind you, people are watching on videos,

The Truth is No Defense. For those people who missed our previous conversations, what is the gist of that book? Because it's an exciting story, and I want people to know about it. Well, it's a story, about how I went through the Austrian and European court system for a decade of my life fighting a free speech charge.

I was found guilty for saying something about the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his child bride Aisha asking whether we should call the behavior of this man, this 56-year-old man and the consummation of his marriage to a six-year-old, actually 90s. year old, can we call it pedophilia? And if we can't call it pedophilia, what do we call it? And I was found guilty of, you know, basically for 10 years and lost the case, but I think it's a very important case. And people need to know that we need to fight for truth, even if it costs us a decade of our life, because it doesn't make a difference. They found me guilty. They said you can't say it. but the truth remains the truth.

And, you know, it doesn't really change anything because we need to continue fighting for the truth, whether it's in the COVID crisis or in the Muslim immigration crisis. The truth remains the truth. Well, it's interesting. My friend John Zmirak often says that, you know, freedom is the freedom to say Bruce Jenner, you know. we're living in a country where I think because of what's happening right now and because of what's been happening in Europe and because of your book, The Truth is No Defense, we have a sense of what we need to do to remain free or to become free to the extent that we've allowed ourselves to become less free and that we have to speak up. And you've been a brave voice in that, but we need thousands more, obviously. And so you've been an inspiration because what you went through, Elizabeth, You know, many people wouldn't. Many people wouldn't be willing to. But because you went through it, you give a lot of people hope. And what you said, you know, to ask whether a 50-something-year-old man consummating a marriage, quote-unquote, with a nine-year-old, can we call that pedophilia? Even if people disagree with you, certainly, you should be able to ask that question. So the idea that you shouldn't be allowed to ask that question. That's why, obviously, your book is titled, The Truth, is no defense. But people need to understand what's happening because it will happen unless we push back. So we're almost at a time. What are you doing? We have 30 seconds. What are you doing today and tomorrow? What do you get to do?

I do a lot of reading. I do a lot of writing. But mostly I'm just a mom right now, which I enjoy very much. I do a lot of cooking. And I do a lot of gardening. I do have a very beautiful garden. My peonies are finally blooming and I basically I'm enjoying the mountains so no I it sounds yes it sounds like you're you're doing just fine in some senses so listen thank you for coming on all the way from Austria Elizabeth Sabadich Wolf we love having you I hope to see you in person and kiss you when I see you we don't care what the authorities say God bless you thanks for being my guest thank you They let me know you were gone. Hey, folks, exciting news.

Yes, yes, exciting news on the Eric Metaxi show. Can I tell you what it is? Can I tell you? How can you stop me? Alvin, I'm going to tell them. Tell them, tell them. Tell them, tell them. We've just figured out this minute.

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Tell us, by the way. You, you, you call them those people. They're not those people. They're everybody. Everybody. Even if you give $10, you get a chance to win the grand prize, which is a lot of books signed by yours truly over there, Erica Taxis, right, including seven more men, right? And if you just give $200, you get a signed copy. Okay, so I'm going to try to clarify this if I can, if I can. Whatever you give, folks, you go to metaxis talk.com, click on the banner, any amount you give, any amount. We want to encourage everybody to participate. It's a wonderful idea. It's actually an important idea, great organization. anything you give, you're entered in a drawing, we've done this before, for an insane grand prize, okay, which means you get to visit the studio.

If you can't visit the studio, you get to send friends to visit the studio, like the whole nine yards, tons of fun. Okay. You get signed books more than you're going to want. You're going to be sick of these signed books, okay? But that's the grand prize, right? for anybody who gives $200, that's what Prison Fellowship is recommending for this package, any of those people, of course, you're entered in the grand prize drawing, but anyone who gives $200 gets a signed copy of my book, Seven More Men. It's just a way of thanking you, and we want to do that. And you also, of course, get a free subscription to Metaxus super.

If you don't want to hear commercials, you just want to click and listen to the program, no commercials. So you get that, okay? But we want to make clear that for $200, you get seven more men. Now, we should also clarify everybody who gives $500, gets to visit the studio, and you'll get a number of signed books, obviously. But the studio visit is a fun thing. It's a fun gift to give to a friend who maybe is going to be passing.

through New York. It's a lot of fun. Obviously, we're not in the studio now, but you know we're getting back there soon, right? And then I want to say finally, anyone who's able to give $10,000 to Angel Tree, anyone who's able to give $10,000 to prison fellowship and did this Angel Tree program, you're going to be blessing more kids than I can count in my head right now. And we would like to thank you by having dinner with you, spending an evening with you. We always offer that whenever we're doing anything like this. So I just want to make that really, clear. I also actually, Alvin, before we go for the day, we should remind people, if you have not already done so, go to no safespaces.com and put in the code save 25. You've got to see this.

It's been deep platformed, yada, yada, yada, don't forget, no safespaces.com and patterns of evidence.com. Patterns of evidence. And I think there's a code. Is the code Eric? Eric and Eric. The code is Eric. We're sort of out of time. I hate to be out of time, but we'll just have to talk to you tomorrow and we will. Thanks for listening.