The Eric Metaxas Show - Eric at St. Michael's Church

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

Eric gave the sermon at St. Michael's Church in Charleston, South Carolina, and emphasized how Christians, past and present, who boldly lived out their faith made dramatic, positive changes to the culture.

Hey there, folks. As you know, I am on a book deadline. And so I thought, I don't have time to do a show today. But I just spoke in Charleston, South Carolina. And I think you would enjoy some of what I said. Some of it you will despise. You will hate. You'll throw stuff at your radio, at your computer. If you're watching this on YouTube, you'll be angry. But a lot of it you'll really like. I was speaking at St. Michael's Anglican Church, one of the most historic churches that I've ever been. and in the pulpit was, I don't know, 12 feet off the ground, like astounding height. And I spoke about a lot of stuff. I spoke about things in New York, whatever.

Anyway, we're going to play that. For the next couple of hours, there's all kinds of stuff. There's Q&A. Here it is. Eric Metaxus. Eric, welcome to St. Michael. Thank you. Gosh.

First of all, it would be wrong for me, not to begin by quoting Betty Davis as I look around and I say, what a dump. I don't know how you people worship in this place, but somebody needs to paint it or just do something because it's unacceptable. This is God's house. Clean it up. Every time I come here, I have to correct jokes about how beautiful and historic it is. It is amazing, and it's interesting preaching from this height, because no matter where I'm preaching mentally, I'm up here in my own mind. But it's rare that I'm actually up this high, feeling pompous and like I should step down. So thank you for making me uncomfortable, Al Zadig.

This really is, it's an honor to come here to the city. You all know how great Charleston is. I don't need to tell you. I'm honored almost everywhere I go to have wonderful friends. But in this city particularly, I have a number of really dear friends of many, many years. at the top of the list, Marade Sullivan, who's made most of this happen. You probably don't realize it, but Marade has made most things happen. She's, I think, in the back there. I want to thank Marade and her husband, Jim, for hosting us and our friends, the Scurries, Richard and Pam Scurry,

who were someplace here. But these are dear old friends. So not only do I get to come here and flog my book, I know you'll buy many copies because Al told me you would, but I get to be with dear friends, and including Al, and so many of you that I've known over the years, and the Klein's, George and Pam, we all go back to St. Paul's Dary Inn, and that's part of what I want to talk about. Community is very, very important. It's one thing for me to yak on about Tim Keller and New York and how great that is, but I'll tell you, before all of that, there was something called the Clapham Circle. the Clapham Society. William Wilberforce, about whom I have written, oversaw the most dramatic

revolution in society. My dear friend, Oz Guinness, says that Wilberforce, some of you know Wilberforce mainly as the man who led the abolition of the slave trade in the British Empire. He was a member of parliament, a politician. But Osginus says that he was the most successful reformer, social reformer in the history of the world. That came out of his Christian faith. Around, I guess, age 26 or something like that, he had a dramatic conversion. If you saw the movie Amazing Grace, they don't go into any of that. They were so hip that they had to find a, you know, non-Christian director. You know, when you're trying to really do something cool and then you work against yourself. So they found a great director, but he was almost hostile to

to the faith story. And so I was happy that in my book, I was able to tell the conversion story of Wilberforce because you realize when this guy got his conversion, you know, a lot of us kind of grew up and we think we're Christians and stuff. And then something happens and you realize, well, maybe I was a Christian, but I really wasn't that Christian. Wilberforce had a dramatic conversion at a time when everybody in England thought they were Christians because I'm not a Jew. I'm not an atheist. I'm not a Mahamadan. I think that was a the term in those days, I must be a Christian. Well, Wilberforce realized he wasn't.

And when he became a Christian, his eyes were opened, and he saw everything differently. And the problem we have today is that we live in a society that, in a sense, has come from what Wilberforce gave us. So a lot of the values that we have in our culture, you can be an agnostic or an atheist, you will still say, hey, we need to give back. And I would say to that person, why do we need to get back? What do you mean? Why should I give to the poor or anything like that? All of these are gospel values. And Wilberforce dragged these gospel values into the culture. They were not in the culture when he was coming up in the world. And this is one of the reasons we need to know our

history. You can be an officially Christian nation and not be at all Christian. They were profoundly pagan. So when the gospel entered that society, through Wilberforce, frankly, right? He was the center, the catalyst of all kinds of stuff. Not only does slavery get abolished, which it did, but all kinds of other things happen. In effect, what I say in my book is that it's as though he invented what we call the social conscience. And today we think, well, everybody's got a social conscience. Every single agnostic and atheist knows, for example, oh, racism is wrong. Well, ask them why is it wrong. It'll be uncomfortable, but go ahead, ask them. You say, why is it wrong? I don't get that. Why? I know why it's wrong. Do you know why it's wrong? If you want to have those

kinds of values, you at least need to acknowledge historically where they come from, right? And I don't mean they come from, you know, the church. They came from evangelical Christians. They came from the kind of people who read the Bible and said, we've got a problem here. Because according to this book, we have to love our enemies. We have to treat those who are different with love. We have to all that follows from that. It took its time working its way through history, unfortunately. but the way you get the abolition of the slave trade in Great Britain and the way you get the abolitionists in this country and the civil war in this country, all of this comes from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And so when we talk about things that are today considered crazy, right? If I say racism's wrong, everybody will agree. They have no clue most of them why they agree. They just know it's wrong. And that's good, but it would be nice if they knew why it's wrong. It would be nice if they knew it's because God said we are all created equal in his image, period. He has declared it.

Every single human being is equal. That touches the unborn issue as well. If you're a human being, God said that he loves you, that he died for you, that you are sacred and immortal, and we need to treat each other that way. So we know where that comes from. In this day and age, if I say, you know, you should love your enemies. You should pray for your enemies. You should forgive those who have done terrible things.

I've had the privilege of having Reverend Thompson on my radio show. That is the kind of an idea that blows people's minds. They don't understand it. They look at you like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What about justice? Well, it opens a door to talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes, there's justice, but there's this thing called grace. What we believe is supposed to be countercultural and supposed to be radical.

If you're just going with the flow in culture and agreeing with what everybody says, be careful. Be very careful. Because usually what everybody believes will lead you to hell. I'm not the first person to say that. If everybody's agreeing on something, I can promise you you want to be very, very careful what you're agreeing with. Does it line up with the Bible? God gave us the Bible. Well, I want to talk about what happened in New York, but I bring up the Clapham sect because that is the

model of what can happen in a very sophisticated society that is hostile to the gospel of Jesus Christ. The people who were serious Christians in Wilberforce's day were sneered at as enthusiasts, as Methodists, we know, right? They called them Methodists because they were the Holy Rollers. The crazy people, you know, who believed in the abolition of slavery, they believed in general egalitarianism, they believed in all this kind of stuff. They were considered nuts. Wilberforce comes into that situation, he brings the gospel of Jesus Christ, and slowly, by the grace of God, is able to create a network of people who begin to have an effect. Not only in politics, politics and laws are very important, but you have to go beyond that. If you want to bring Jesus into the culture, you have to use the arts. You have to use the culture itself.

So Wilberforce got that. And I think part of what happened in New York is very similar to this. There were so few serious Christians in Manhattan that I knew all of them. If you try to find a good church in Manhattan in 1985, there were almost none. Let there be no doubt, big tech and the far left have joined forces to purge America of conservative views. But even if you keep your accounts, you don't have to give big tech websites access to your data. That's why I choose to protect my online activity by using ExpressVPN. Ever wondered how free to access social media companies make all their money?

Well, by tracking your searches, video history, and everything you click on, and then selling your valuable data. When you use ExpressVPN, you anonymize much of your online presence by hiding your IP address. That makes your activity more difficult to trace and sell to advertisers. What's more, ExpressVPN encrypts 100% of your data. to protect you from eavesdroppers on your network. And the ExpressVPN app couldn't be easier to use. You just tap one button on your phone or computer and you're protected.

Take back your online privacy with the VPN I trust at ExpressVPN.com slash Metaxus. By visiting my link, you'll get an extra three months of ExpressVPN service for free on a one-year package. Again, that's ExpressVPN.com slash Metaxus, E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-S-V-P-N. dot com slash metaxis express.com slash metaxis to protect your data today. Hey folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling

from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even until about four to five months after. If you keep ordering it, friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering Relief Factor month after month if it doesn't work. So yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older, or to the three-week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you at a pain too. Go to Relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 8303

8-800-800-500-8004 relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Investors, seeking steady cash flow, ready to diversify. NRIA has grown to be one of the nation's leading specialists and offers 10% annualized monthly payouts with bonuses targeted at 18 to 21%. That's right. You could receive steady 10% return monthly payments with bonuses. As their slogan says, they specialize in realty investing done right. You can even use your 401k or IRA to invest. NRA's 15-year track record and 1.2 billion in new construction development backs you. Learn how you can invest in this hard asset, real estate cash flow fund today and receive 10% annualized monthly payouts with bonuses. This is something savvy investors should research and consider. Call now 800-700-5483. That's 800-700-5483 or visit nria.net. An offer to buy

or sell any security is only made by our private placement memorandum. Read it first. See us at nria.net. Now, Dietrich Bonhofer, about whom I wrote a book, in 1930, he comes to New York, and he wants to go to some churches. And he finds the gospel is not preached in any of the white churches. The big churches, all up and down the avenues. I'm not going to name their names.

but he went there and liberal theology had already destroyed the gospel. So he would go there and he thought, this is their plain church. To hear the actual gospel, he had to go to the black churches in Harlem. And when he went there, he saw, oh, these people actually believe. Jesus died for my sins. Jesus rose from the grave. We pray for our enemies. All of that crazy stuff that Christians believed, it didn't exist in all those mainline churches.

and that mainline secular consensus carried through into the 1980s. Now, there were one or two churches, if you looked, but at some point, Tim Keller, whom many of you know, decided to plant a church in Manhattan. And it's kind of funny because he was doing, it's kind of like the Cheney thing, right? Not that I'm a fan of Mr. Cheney, but it's kind of like he's tasked with finding a vice president,

and then finally he says, I can't find anybody, I'll be the vice president, right? That's exactly what happened with Tim Keller. Tim Keller was hunting for the right guy and eventually decides I can't find it. I guess I'll have to do it. So he starts a church and I remember Suzanne, my wife and I, we didn't know each other then, but we both were there to visit that church. People said, like, hey, have you been to this church?

There's a church, whatever. And there'd be like 100 people. And Tim Keller was preaching. If you had told me then that this would grow and grow and grow and become, you know, Redeemer Presbyterian, everybody across the country is acting like, you know, holy cow, that's an amazing thing. Well, for New York, it is an amazing thing. If you can get a few thousand people going to do your church on Sunday morning, by New York standards, that's a mega church, right? That's huge. And it really was kind of a phenomenon. At the same time that Keller planted this church, David Wilkerson, very different from Tim Keller, decides he's going to bring a church to New York City. Now, it's just fascinating to me because part of what I think is vital to really bringing the faith into a secular situation.

It's a combination of ecumenism and multiculturalism. Now, I'm not using multiculturalism in the woke sense, but I mean, if you are in a really secular environment, you know we've got to focus on the basics. This is not about cultural Christianity, about playing church. It's not about a country. country club church where I'm going to go and everybody's going to be like me. The people who are going to go there are going to go there because they really believe. And usually what happens is you get a pretty multi-ethnic crowd in Times Square church. I've never seen anything like it. You go into that church and it's just extraordinary and everybody there is excited about God. And you know, it's a little bit more on the Pentecostal side. You go to Redeemer. Redeemer as we all know is 140% Korean. Did you know that? Yeah, I'm just going for a cheap joke. Redeemer was more on the

white side, not exclusively, but then this is true. A lot of Korean people kind of migrated over because there are a lot of Presbyterians, but it really always was fascinating to me to see that in the same city, you have these two very vibrant churches, and in many ways they're extremely different. And so I think that anytime you're tempted to do the same thing, you have to say, no, no, no. God is very big. God wants to reach everybody. Some people he's going to reach this way, some people he's going to reach this way. If you're really into worship, you know, you're not going to go to Redeemer Presbyterian Church. If you're really into Tim Keller's sermons, that's the place to go. There's nobody better. If you're really into worship, you go to Times Square Church,

and they would rock out and it was unbelievable and the Holy Spirit would fall and half of you demons would come out. I'm from telling you. All right, not really half of you. But the point is, like, you could feel the presence of God. It was amazing. And out of those two churches,

a beachhead was formed. And Suzanne and I saw all of this. We saw more and more Christians coming to New York. We saw more and more churches popping up. like it was kind of an amazing thing. These little churches would pop up over the years. Then we saw ministries pop up. Suzanne ran, it was called the Midtown Pregnancy Support Center.

It's now called Avail. And that was started by women from Redeemer. So when a church comes in, and I mean a real church, because remember, there were tons of churches there, nobody cared about women going through crisis pregnancies. Nobody understood that these women need somebody to reach out to them and to help them and to love them and to help them make the decision they probably wanted to make in the first place, but their boyfriend didn't want them to make it or they were alone. It's an amazing ministry. You know, it's pro-woman, and nobody really can argue with it.

It's a beautiful thing. So many lives were changed. There had been nothing like that in New York City, unfortunately the abortion capital of America. There had been nothing like it until Redeemer came. men and a group of women decided we want to do this. Many things like that happened. Redeemer also effectively launched the Geneva School, which is a classical Christian school in Manhattan. People say, how can you, you know, how can you raise your kids in Manhattan? Well, there's this amazing Christian school. And when you're in a city, and Suzanne can tell you more about this

than I can, but you learn how, just like any missionary, right, You want to be somewhat like the people you're ministering to. You don't want to come in there sounding like you're from another part of the world, acting, dressing like you're from another part of the world. You want to welcome them. So, Avail, ministering to these women, they had a model of care that was really progressive compared to a lot of similar centers around the country, which are doing great work. But the point is, if you really care about people, you're going to try to reach them where they are, right? the Geneva School was the same kind of thing. King's College, I mean, an amazing thing.

There were enough Christians in New York that eventually King's College decides that we're going to be in New York. And so suddenly all kinds of people are sending their kids to a Christian college in New York City. Now, again, when I use the word Christian, I mean evangelical, serious Christian, okay? And even when I say evangelical, you know,

I include Peter Craft in that. I mean, anybody who is serious because there are plenty of cafeteria Catholics and plenty people that they say, oh, I'm this or I'm that. But you realize that they're not. They haven't really heard the gospel. It hasn't transformed them. So I think about those days,

watching this happen in New York City, and realizing this is a big deal. This city has been secular for a long time. And when I say secular, you know, culturally kind of waspy country club churches, the gospel of Jesus Christ was not there very much. And so when it arrived, there was a place you could go. If you were looking for something, if you're going through a tough time,

and you wanted real answers, there were a number of churches that were happening. I think also of Socrates in the city, which I started in 2000. Gosh, I was just a kid. And I, thank you. And I remember thinking, what a weird thing that here we are in New York City and we have, you know, people at polite cocktail parties, they don't talk about the big questions, right? What are the big questions? Does God exist? Can we talk about that?

If he does, what's he like? Can we know him? Are science and faith compatible? You know, all of those big questions that every single person wants to know. in a secular place like New York, where do you go to hear somebody talk about that? So I invited in people like Os Guinness and others who gently and brilliantly opened up these things and made a safe place for people to begin to think about this. And if they would buy an Os Guinness book, that would introduce them to a whole other thing.

So this stuff went on. And it's amazing to think that in part because of people moving, around more than they used to. People from all around the country would come to New York to work in a bank or a job or something like that, and they would have good churches to go to. But this, it's gotten so out of hand that there are now hosts of churches. I don't even know the names of these churches. And I mean church churches, right? The kind of places where you go, you're going to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, you're going to hear the basics. You're not just going there, you know, to share the peace and to get slightly uplifted. Really.

churches have just exploded across New York City of all different kinds. And I think Keller was really amazing at this. He preached about we've got to love the city, which is itself an interesting idea. In other words, you do not adopt the secular values, but just as anyone going into a missionary situation, you say, I want to love these people. I want to help these people. I'm not here to kind of create, you know, my sandbox in the middle of this, in spite of this. I want to reach out to the people who maybe don't think the way that I do. So I'm going to be countercultural, but I'm not going to be deliberately combative. And that's, of course, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There's enough combativeness and Jesus who did everything perfectly, obviously met with tremendous

hostility, putting it mildly. So there's always that balance between how do I love people, how do I meet them where they are, but how do I prevent myself from doing that to the point where I start becoming like them rather than helping them to become like me? And that's a real issue. Let there be no doubt, big tech and the far left have joined forces to purge America. of conservative views. But even if you keep your accounts, you don't have to give big tech websites access to your data. That's why I choose to protect my online activity by using ExpressVPN. Ever wondered how free to access social media companies make all their money? Well, by tracking your searches, video history, and everything you click on, and then selling your valuable data.

When you use ExpressVPN, you anonymize much of your online presence by hiding your IP address. that makes your activity more difficult to trace and sell to advertisers. What's more, ExpressVPN encrypts 100% of your data to protect you from eavesdroppers on your network. And the ExpressVPN app couldn't be easier to use. You just tap one button on your phone or computer and you're protected. Take back your online privacy with the VPN I trust at ExpressVPN.com slash Metaxus. By visiting my link, you'll get an extra three months of ExpressVPN service for free. on a one-year package. Again, that's expressvpn.com slash metaxus,

E-X-P-R-E-S-V-S-V-P-N dot com slash metaxus, express.com slash metaxus to protect your data today. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot, have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day.

But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even until about four to five months after. If you keep ordering it, friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering relief factor month after month if it doesn't work. So, yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older,

or to the three-week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you at a pain too. Go to relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 800,000, 800,000, 8384, Relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Investors, seeking steady cash flow, ready to diversify, NRAA has grown to be one of the nation's leading specialists and offers 10% annualized monthly payouts with bonuses targeted at 18 to 21%. That's right. You could receive steady 10% return monthly payments with bonuses. As their slogan says, they specialize in realty investing done right. You can even use your 401k or IRA to invest. NRA's 15-year track record and $1.2 billion in new construction development backs you. Learn how you can invest in this hard asset real estate cash flow fund today and receive 10% annualized monthly payouts with bonuses. This is something savvy investors. should research and consider. Call now 800, 700, 700, 5483. That's 800, 700, 5483, or visit nria.net. An offer to buy or sell any security is only made by our private placement memorandum. Read it first.

See us at nria.net. Lucky can one guy be. I kissed her and she kissed me. Like the fella once said, ain't that a kick in the head. The room was completely black. I think in these days of cancel culture and political correctness, the forces that want to tell you shut up with your stupid, bigoted ideas about abortion or marriage or whatever it is, you know, you have to realize that times do change.

New York in 1990 and 1995, that wasn't as much of an issue. But I think that you have to be willing to get in there in the name of Jesus to reach people, and that there are people really hungry for the truth. And I think that what we saw at the time in New York, we didn't realize it that something was happening. But I do think that it was because we were New Yorkers, we spoke the language.

I mean, I grew up in New York City. I had the misfortune of going to Yale University. And, you know, you kind of get culturally acclimat, So you speak that language. And so I speak that language, but secretly inside, I'm a new creation in Jesus. And you're able to reach people. I think oftentimes humor is a way to reach people. If you're cracking jokes, people realize, well, you're not some glassy-eyed member of a cult.

At least, you know, you know how to laugh. So all of these things added up to something. I don't want to neglect embracing the arts. Keller talked about that as well. And that is a big thing, isn't it? Not to be anti-intellectual or to be countercultural to the point that you despise the arts, but you use the arts. So a lot of those things happen in New York.

The last year with COVID has been so strange. I kind of, I think, did this all? really happen? Is it going to come back? Because things are really strange. But I just have to say that one of the things that also comes out of this, I mentioned that churches have sort of popped up as a result of this. Well, one of the craziest things is that pre-existing churches have been taken over by people who really believe all that crazy Bible stuff. So there are a couple of churches we attend one of them, Jason Harris, whose parents I know are part of this community, although they're not here tonight. He came to Central Presbyterian Church, which was sort of your

classic Avenue church, you know, the people, all the right people would go to that church. And you know what happens to those churches where all the right people go, don't you? Yeah. Eventually, it's just a few old people. And there are a lot of churches in New York just like that. If you don't preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, eventually even church becomes Pass-A and all the people who used to go to church because it was the thing to do, they don't go to church anymore. So Jason comes in there, starts preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And now on 64th and Park Avenue, there is a vibrant church with amazing sermons, because he's a great preacher, and amazing worship. But it's done with enough cultural sensitivity that if somebody just stumbles in, there, they're not going to go, holy cow, what have I wandered into? They're going to say, gosh, this is interesting, and it seems like these people really believe this stuff. Maybe I'll

stay for a while. Maybe I'll listen. And so the church has grown really beautifully. I guess I want to say finally that America is becoming more like a city, as the mass media has really taken over, right? We don't have so much locality anymore, right? Like, it's kind of things that become, in a funny way, the language that people have in cities is increasingly the language around the country. And so it's important for us who live in cities to understand that we're speaking beyond the city in which we live. This kind of language sometimes of, whether it's sarcasm or joking or something like that, has become more and more a part of the conversation across the country.

So I'll stop there just because I know the Reverend Al has some questions and some ideas and things and I'm prepared for that. Well, Eric, you've given such a great context for the beautiful happenings in New York City. And many of us may not have known that, how that all came to pass.

Specifically, the tie between sanctity of life issues and the present presence of gospel churches. So can you tell us maybe just a little more about how issues of life from the unborn to the elderly turned when gospel churches were replanted there or planted for the first time? Yeah, I mean, and it cuts both ways. It's an interesting thing. When you start to get serious about Jesus, things are going to pop up, like the issue, for example, of the unborn. But what you notice, and this is what we've noticed in New York, is that if you get really serious about one of these issues, it's very ecumenical.

Because if you're in a very secular place, the only people who are going to be serious about this are going to be typically evangelicals and Catholics. So suddenly you're going to meet all the real Catholics who really believe that stuff and are willing to stick their necks out. And you make common cause. And so it's a beautiful thing to see because you put aside your theological differences because you say we agree radically on this issue. And we also know that this is an issue, as I said earlier, there are tons of people, mostly women, obviously, who are really looking for truth. Don't let the culture lie to you.

There are people out there hurting. They want someone to tell them. it's okay to have the baby. Think about that. We're supposed to believe in choice, right? Let there be no doubt. Big Tech and the far left have joined forces to purge America of conservative views.

But even if you keep your accounts, you don't have to give big tech websites access to your data. That's why I choose to protect my online activity by using ExpressVPN. Ever wondered how free to access social media companies make all their money, well, by tracking your searches, video history, and everything you click on, and then selling your valuable data. When you use ExpressVPN, you anonymize much of your online presence by hiding your IP address. That makes your activity more difficult to trace

and sell to advertisers. What's more, ExpressVPN encrypts 100% of your data to protect you from eavesdroppers on your network. And the ExpressVPN app couldn't be easier to use. You just tap one button on your phone or computer and you're protected. Take back your online privacy with the VPN I trust at ExpressVPN.com slash Metaxus. By visiting my link, you'll get an extra three months of ExpressVPN service for free on a one-year package. Again, that's ExpressVPN.com slash Metaxus. E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash Metaxus, Express.com slash Metaxus to protect your data today. Hey folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son,

owners Pete and Seth Talbot have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even until about four to five months after if you keep ordering it. Friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering Relief Factor month after month if it doesn't work.

So yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older, order the three-week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you out of pain too. Go to Relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800-500-584. relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Investors seeking steady cash flow, ready to diversify. NRIA has grown to be one of the nation's leading specialists and offers 10% annualized monthly payouts with bonuses targeted at 18 to 21%. That's right. You could receive steady 10% return monthly payments with bonuses. As their slogan says, they specialize in realty investing done right. You can even use your 401k or

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But if somebody comes alongside them and says, yes, we want to honor that and we want to help you. Even if you're not sure if you want to have the baby, we're here to love you and to encourage you and to support you. the numbers of women that are utterly changed, they're mesmerized that somebody is honoring what they thought maybe they shouldn't even say if you're supposed to be some empowered woman. You're really not supposed to think that, are you? Well, yes, it turns out it's okay to think that. Turns out that God would like you to have that child because he may have some really amazing plans for that child. And when you begin hearing that, you think, gosh, I just didn't know that anybody thought that. And I think that's an encouragement to us to be bold. Because as much as people will tell you, shut up, we're going to cancel you if you say this or this or this or this. You can say to them in turn, excuse me, you shut up

because I know that for every one of you, there are 10 people eager to hear this. And God has called me to say this. And you don't have to agree. It's a free country. But what about all those people who are suffering who never hear this? this message. I'm here for them. And we cannot force people to agree with us, but if we don't

speak, if we are so culturally sensitive that we keep our mouths shut, folks, I mean, I hate to bring it backwards to whether it's Wilberforce or Bonhoffer, but do you know how many actual racists there are who said to Wilberforce, you need to shut up. You need to keep your faith private, we don't want to hear it. It's hurting us financially. It's just, we just don't want to hear it. Keep your faith private. And by the grace of God, he said, there's no such thing as private faith. The truth of God is the truth of God. If I'm wrong, show me in the scripture, but I can't back down on this. Why? Because you don't like it, because it might ruin my career as a politician. When you've met God, you don't care about your career, because you know the Lord is the author of

your life and your career, if you really believe in Jesus, you're going to be willing to be bold on these issues. And, you know, it doesn't mean we have to be rude, but we do have to be bold. And I think sometimes you have to be sensitive culturally to the moment you're in. There are cultures where you want to say to Christians, hey, tone it down, shut up a little bit so God could have some room to work. But there are plenty of other cultures where everybody's too sophisticated to talk about what God says, right so if today you talk about racism that's fine today that's not a problem today but talk about the unborn well now maybe somebody's going to have a problem you talk about i have a biblical view of

sexuality some people are going to have a problem you have to say listen this is not my idea god loves us equally and i'm as much of a sinner as anybody but this is what the word says and i think again there's that temptation that we want to talk about the issues that that everybody can agree on. And we have to be careful. There are going to be things that the Bible is going to say that some people are going to go, that's a great idea. And other people are going to go, I not only don't I agree with you, I'm going to try to shut you up.

Bonhofer was talking, of course, about many things in his day. And the church didn't want him to talk about those things. It's very easy for us today to say, oh, we would have definitely been on Bonhofer's side. That is absolutely not true, folks. most of us would have gone with the flow as we're doing now on other issues. Bonhofer was a heroic voice and a prophetic voice, and we have to really think about this. Today I could bring up the issue of religious liberty, okay? We're now even struggling with the issue of free speech, but as Christians, we have to think about religious liberty.

There are people today saying, I don't believe in religious liberty. And we have to say, well, the founders believed in religious liberty and God believes in religious liberty. And religious liberty means I can tell you what my faith says. You don't have to agree with me, but you can't shut me up because this is still a free country. And when you're talking about religious liberty, if you're a real Christian, you understand that that extends to people of every faith and people of no faith. And so if you want to think about a human rights issue in this day and age, there are more. Muslims in China suffering the tortures of the damned because we in America, we've got a good deal going with China, we're making some money, trade is good, maybe we don't want to talk about that. I'm here to tell you there will always be economic reasons to shut your mouth because it's very convenient and somebody else will take that money.

When the abolition of slavery happened, you understand that there are people that said, listen, if we in England abolish slavery, the French are simply going to pick up that business. It's just going to happen, right? I mean, it's no different than saying that, you know, my kids are going to do drugs, so I'd rather they do them in my house under my supervision, right? So they can smoke their weed in the basement. At least they're here. I know where they are.

Well, that mentality can lead you in some very wrong directions. And if you care about human rights as a Christian and you care about religious liberty, we have to stand up in this nation for religious. religious liberty, for Christians, for anybody, but in other nations where they are persecuting people, I mean, we don't have the firepower to go into North Korea and to free the Christians. No, we can't do that, but we better use our voices, folks. We better use our voices if the NBA or somebody else is saying, shut up, we don't want to talk about that, we're making a lot of money.

You have to say, excuse me, we have to talk about that. Because if you were in Germany and you were doing business with the Nazis and I were a Christian, Wouldn't it be my obligation to say, that's dirty money? You can't take that money. You can't do business with them because human beings are being oppressed horribly. You have an obligation to them. You are supposed to love them. You're supposed to care about them like you care about yourself.

And some people say, well, it's just Jews. Who cares? It's just Muslims. They're in China. Who cares? The fact of the matter is, God cares and he commands his people to care. And so I think it doesn't matter what the issue is, but there are issues with regard to the unborn. There are issues with regard to sexuality.

There are people suffering. And we have an obligation to share the truth of Jesus with them. One of the most countercultural things you could say today would be to a young man struggling with a sexuality. You don't have to go down that path. You don't. Just like the woman who's told you, you must, you know, go to college and have your career, whatever, you can't have the child. You can say, you don't have to take that path.

God has another plan. That's countercultural, but if you love that young man, you want to give him hope. And guess what's behind your hope? God is behind your hope. God wants to bless that young man and help that young man. But we live in a culture that doesn't really care about those young men very much, unless they make the decision the culture teaches them. The unborn the shop and the store

Put the lock on the door You just get away Where your worries won't find you If you like The unborn is It's the central issue for us For Suzanne and me Just because it is everywhere

Everywhere you look People are dealing with this We need to come alongside them And it unifies people tremendously It's not just You know This church or that church

By the way it used to be Just a Catholic thing You understand, Protestants and evangelicals did not care about this issue very much until Francis Schaefer kind of brought it to the evangelicals from the Catholics, from natural law, and said, hey, we need to take this seriously. Look what's going on in this country. We need to talk about this. We're Christians.

And so suddenly this beautiful ecumenical movement came out of it. But I think that the best thing is that, you know, when we talk, about these things, we can do it in love, we can do it sensitively, we don't have to be activists, so to speak. We can do it in a way. Now some people will always accuse you of being an activist if they disagree with you, but we have an obligation to God to be bold in our witness, knowing that there are people hungry for what you're being told you can't say. And if we don't say it, if we don't have the boldness to say it, knowing that God commands us to live out our faith, not to keep it private, to live it out. It's when people live

out their faith, it's a shocking thing. I think the most shocking thing, because Reverend Thompson is here, any time in the news over the decades, it happened with the Amish a number of years ago, when people forgive murderers, it blows the mind of the secular culture. It is the most powerful thing. So loving our enemies, forgiving those who've harmed us, that is the most radical way you show that you're the member of a kingdom that's not of this world. And I really do think loving women who are struggling with crisis pregnancies, it is a way to minister people. They will thank you for the rest of their lives if you walk alongside them at that time. They will never, ever forget that you were the one that made it possible to have this person who's now their best friend without whom they cannot even imagine the world.

So I'll just, I'll leave it at that. Well, we're going to extend this to about midnight tonight. We've uncovered a lot of things we need to talk about. And my mind is full and exploding right now. You know, in the olden days, we used to say you can't use your phone in church. and now we're using it to communicate tonight. And so thank you, team, for forwarding these questions. And thank you, my friend.

But this is from a member of our youth group tonight who is asking, how would you go about discussing abortion when talking with a fellow Christian who is pro-choice? So thank you, youth group member, who called that in tonight. Well, the first thing you do, obviously, is rebuke them. Say it strongly. I rebuke you. And then you can say something more civil. I think, listen, I don't think you can really be a Christian and be pro-choice. I think there are a lot of people that are,

they're simply confused, and you have to help them to understand. God says human life is sacred. There's nothing to be discussed. Human life is sacred. He said it. It doesn't matter if it's the product of rape. it doesn't matter a human being is an infinite eternal creation and we do not have the right to kill other human beings and it makes no difference about the situation it doesn't matter if well they're in a coma anyway well they you know they're useless at this point they're not they're they're miserable it's simply not something that we can do Folks, you've been listening to The Eric Metaxus show. This is the Eric Metaxis show, but you've really been listening to a speech I gave last week or to some talk I gave last week at a wonderful church, St. Michael's Anglican Church in Charleston, South Carolina. That's what you've been listening to, and that's in both hours today.