The Eric Metaxas Show - Eric, Chris, and Keith Review The Weekend

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Eric is joined by Chris and Keith and they address the bias in Late Night TV and his recent newsmax appearance on Greg Kelly.

Welcome to the Eric Metaxas show. Would you consider yourself smart, insightful, precocious, astute, clever, wise beyond your years, and good at checking a cesareth for synonyms? Well, then you've come to the right place. Here now is the handsome, attractive, striking, gorgeous, and quite frankly, breathtaking, Eric Mattaxas! Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the program, folks. This is officially July 14th, Monday. Chris Himes and Keith Jinta are with me here.

Gentlemen, welcome. Good morning. Happy Monday. I got some stuff to get off my chest. This is actually quite serious. I don't normally say things the way I'm going to say them right now. This is I feel a deadly seriousness in what I want to say right now to anybody who's listening, who anybody who wants to hear it.

I'm speaking, I don't normally say this. I don't only say I'm speaking as a Christian. I am always a Christian and I'm always speaking as a Christian, but I'm rarely speaking officially as a Christian where I would reference it explicitly. But I do that because there are times when you see the only possible way forward is with God. We can fool ourselves oftentimes into thinking that There are answers that are secular answers that are somehow apart from God. Of course, anything that's good and true and beautiful ultimately comes from God, whether you acknowledge it or don't. But there's a time when you have to stop faking it and you have to say God is the only answer.

Now, we can say that, too, as a cliche, God is the only answer. Love is the answer. Like, whatever, no, you have to be more clear. And so today, I want to say a few things. And again, I'm speaking very much publicly as a Christian, as a public Christian, when I say these things. What am I referring to? Forgive me for taking so long to get to the punchline. I'm referring to the division that has revealed itself in what we might call the MAGA movement or what is called the MAGA movement.

we have people who are pro-Trump people attacking viciously other people who are pro-Trump people. And I want to say, and I'm only echoing what Ronald Reagan said, but most people are, you know, I'm probably too young to remember what Ronald Reagan said. But it's simply true, whether he says it or I say it or anyone says it, that you have to have wisdom and you have to understand when not to attack the people on your own team. When you're doing greater damage by attacking the people on your own team, even if you have differences because you will have differences. Right now, there are great differences in the MAGA movement,

in the conservative movement, in the America First movement, in the I Love America movement. There are real differences, and there are people on either side of those differences who are so sure that they're right that they have zero grace for anyone who doesn't hardly agree with them. What am I talking about specifically? Well, two things. number one, what President Trump said, I guess two days ago in a truth social post about Pam Bondi and about the Epstein files, what he said, disappointed many of us. That issue of the Epstein files, that's number one, where there are people that would simply agree with Trump. and say, look, whatever he's for, I'm for it. And I trust him. And there are other people

who are declaring now that Trump has, you know, sold his soul to the devil and to the deep state. And he's in bed with all of our enemies because he, whatever, whatever. So there's, that's one place of disagreement. And I've been dismayed mainly by the viciousness and the, despair. And I don't see God in that. So I want to talk about that. But another thing that needs to be mentioned, which is a similar thing, is this Israel stuff. And again, if you follow the news, you get all this stuff. But the other day, Charlie Kirk at his TPSA event had many, many speakers, among them Tucker Carlson. And this is where it gets complicated,

and this is where I'm speaking as a Christian, where you have to have grace. I don't know with whom I agree on some of these issues. When somebody like Tucker Carlson is questioning things or whatever, he can be kind of annoying in that way because some of us see him as giving, credence to people who maybe would be described as anti-Semitic. Some people would describe Tucker as being anti-Semitic.

So there's this big division. And what I want to say is what I think the real issue here is a spirit of division. Now, again, I'm speaking as a Christian. Some people don't understand this concept of a spirit of division that is a demonic principality, which we're talking about. But it doesn't matter. What I mean to say specifically is that in this case, Laura Lumer, who is radically pro-Trump, viciously attacked Charlie Kirk for allowing Tucker Carlson. to speak at his event. Now, are we all so dumb that we can't see beyond level one? Okay, level one

is maybe we disagree with some stuff Tucker said. Great. Should Charlie have said, I will not allow Tucker Carlson to speak? We're not talking about Minister Farrakhan. We're not talking about David Duke. We're not talking about Milo. We're not, we're talking about Tucker Carlson. So we can disagree with Tucker Carlson, but the idea that we wouldn't allow him to speak, I find preposterous. But Laura Lumer is viciously attacking Charlie Kirk, who is a hero, a hero. She's attacking him for what? For effectively being gracious for saying that. Maybe if I disagree with Tucker on some stuff, I don't need to have that. that front and center. I will give him a platform to speak because I think maybe a debate,

a healthy airing of differences can lead to the truth. Laura Lumer, who's a journalist, has very viciously attacked Charlie as a sellout, and I just want to publicly denounce that. I believe that she is, she has given end to what I'm calling a spirit of division, that even if you disagree with Tucker, I think we ought to accord him grace. What's his name? Bill, is it Bill Ackman, the billionaire Jewish philanthropist? Yeah. he put out a long post on X,

strongly disagreeing with what Tucker said. That's perfectly appropriate, right? In other words, we want to get to the truth of it. If Tucker is saying some things that Bill Ackerman is disagreeing with, and again, this gets into the whole, I mean, it ties into the Epstein stuff, right? But what I'm saying is there's a place for healthy debate. but to demonize Tucker for saying these things to the point where you wouldn't allow him on your stage, Charlie didn't do that. Why didn't Charlie do that? I'll tell you why. Because Charlie has wisdom

and because Charlie understands grace. You do not specifically as a Christian have to be so black and white that if somebody says stuff you disagree with, you say, that's beyond the pale. I will not allow him to speak at might. Now, I guess there's a point where you do that, but what I'm saying is it was perfectly appropriate for him to allow Tucker to speak. Tucker is not the devil. Tucker is a friend on so many issues. And when we come back, I will, I'll pick this apart. But this is very, very important for America and the world,

which is why I'm talking about it. We'll be right back. Mike Lindell and my pillow employees want to thank you, my listeners, for all your continued support. Mike has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. He didn't stop by creating the best pillow. He created the best bed sheets ever. Yes, Mike is offering the best deal on his percale bedsheets.

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Use discount code Eric to get 40% off this week only. Folks, welcome back. I'm ranting and raving, and you have to give me grace to do that. I'm speaking today, I, Eric Mataxis on the Eric Mataxis show, am speaking about some stuff that's been in the news that if you listen to this show, you listen to me, you know that I almost never ever do this, where I just, Chris Heimes, my producer said, empty the clip. Empty the clip, man.

It's a drive-by. It's a Monday morning drive-by. It's a Monday morning, Texas drive-by. But some things need to be said, right? So there's a lot here, okay? This ties into, I mean, actually, you know, as I mentioned, what Tucker said at, you know, the other day. I mean, I'm not going to get into it much, but just to briefly let you know. So Tucker gets up there at Charlie's event, and he says some things now, I don't know if they're right or wrong.

So I'm not siding with Tucker, but I'm siding with Charlie. in allowing Tucker to say these things. So what is Tucker saying? Tucker was saying in effect that Tucker is not a fan of the Israeli government, not a fan of Netanyahu. I, Eric Mattaxes, do not know whether I agree with him. In other words, he might be right. He might not be right.

I am still trying to figure it out. It seems to me that many wise people who love America, who love Donald Trump, are trying to figure these things out. And so Laura Lumer is saying that because of what Tucker has said, he is effectively an anti-Semite and a monster, and Charlie shouldn't have given him a spot. I disagree with that. So part of what Tucker said relates to the Epstein files. He says that it seems that Epstein may well have been an agent working with Mossad, which is the Israel Intelligence Agency and with the CIA, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That is utterly plausible at this point.

And for somebody to ask that question, of course, is legitimate. And if you think that makes them an anti-Semite, I think that's ridiculous. The reason I think it's ridiculous, the reason I'm speaking up is because I wrote a 600-page book on Dietrich Bonhofer. I stand with Israel, and I advocate standing with Israel. And in the conversation between Tucker and Ted Cruz, I would be more on the Ted Cruz side. This is not to say that I completely disagree with Tucker. I don't. But we ought to be able to have a healthy debate without giving in to what I've called a spirit of division where you demonize Tucker for asking the questions. You demonize Tucker for saying what he said. He's trying, it seems to me, to figure this out. And I don't get the impression that he's a hidebound thinker. I think that, again, even if you're a I end up disagreeing with him, I respect his process enough that I would certainly allow him to speak if I were running something like the TPUSA conference from a few days ago.

So, but Laura Lumer disagrees with this and has so viciously, I think, attacked Charlie that I get very, I get upset because to me, Charlie is exhibiting what I call. grace. And it's Christian grace and it's wisdom. It's to say that we're a big tent. And I'm not going to agree with everybody who comes onto my stage, but we are a big tent. We're part of a bigger movement because we are in a war. And in a war, you work with people sometimes with whom you disagree. I should point out to Laura Lumer that this country, in defeating the Nazis who murdered millions of Jews, We worked with Joseph Stalin and the satanic Soviet Union of Stalin. We did it because we believed that we had to make an ugly compromise to defeat the satanic Nazis who really hated Jews.

Sometimes we have to do that. Charlie Kirk at his conference also had on, what's her name? Julian Michaels, right? Julian Michaels is openly a lesbian. I know that Charlie and I don't think that pursuing a gay lifestyle is God's will, but this doesn't mean we cannot have friends with whom we disagree on that issue. So the question is, at what point do you say, that's it. I'm not going to talk to these people.

I'm not going to, you know, this is an important question. And so it requires real wisdom. And I'm speaking on this now, kind of putting myself out there because I think this is very important. And I think the nation's at stake. I think that if you become swept up in attacking everyone with whom you disagree, to this point, you do damage, you do greater damage. And I think that, you know, there are limits to the big tent philosophy. We'll say that. There are limits to it.

at the same time, you know, you cannot be, if you're all about purity and never working with anyone with whom you disagree, nothing gets done. I can bring up William Wolverforce. You want to read a great book on William Wolverford force? I happen to write one. It's called Amazing Grace. William Wilberforce and the heroic campaign to end slavery. William Wilberforce 200 and 30 years ago worked with people with whom he disagreed on many issues for. the greater cause of ending the satanic slave trade, just as America worked with Joseph Stalin to destroy the Nazis. This is complicated, folks. In our own history, in our own founding, many people like John Adams and Ben Franklin, who despised slavery, were forced to work with people

enslaved states to ratify a constitution so that we could have a nation, this doesn't mean they thought slavery was okay. That's politics and that's the world of reality. In the end, they were proved right because slavery was abolished in America and we have America exists today. So this is kind of basic stuff, but at the same time, I think it's very easy. If you love truth, as every serious person should, especially every serious Christian. If you really love truth, you have to beware of being led by your love of truth to lack grace. So regarding the Epstein stuff, regarding the Epstein file, I am as baffled as you about this issue. But Victor Marks, who said, nobody cares more about the sexual abuse of children than Victor Marks,

He came out the other day on Instagram, and he said some stuff on this. And I thought, okay, this is a guy. Nobody cares more about the sexual abuse of children than Victor Marx. He's putting his life on the line for this issue every day while we're debating, chatting. And he's a former victim of childhood abuse himself. So what he was kind of saying, and I thought it was a cogent point, is that we need to be thinking about the kids that are being abused today and tomorrow. on this week. And while it's, it's disappointing that it seems like we're not getting clarity on the historical case of Epstein that, you know, the bigger issue at this point is that there are

kids that are being victimized today that need help. Well, you know, this Epstein stuff, let me, let's go back to. Could I also say one thing before we move on to Epstein? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, the accusations that you're hearing from Luma and others like her, and, you know, is that these other people that she disagrees with are, you know, being their storylines or being influenced by people with foreign interests and things like that. And it's almost like when you have somebody making those accusations that makes you wonder, like, well, how do you know that's happening and who might be paying you to say this or that? I mean, it goes on both sides. So it's such a swampy, murky, you know, deep state infested arena that we're in that people, unfortunately, aren't acting genuinely in what they're saying in some cases. They're actually being influenced by contributions and all this stuff.

I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I think that enters into it. And by the way, I believe in our... Not with everybody, but some people for sure, it must be. I should just announce while I'm going on here that in hour two today, I believe we have Ned Ryan, gigantic hero. Gigantic hero.

He'll be with us, I believe, in hour two today. So let me say yesterday, part of what got me thinking about all this was that yesterday on X, I posted a picture of the president moments after the assassination attempt, which was exactly a year ago yesterday, a year ago yesterday. Donald Trump should be dead. But by the grace of God, I believe that's obvious. He was miraculously saved for God's purposes in American history. And we're in a war.

And that war matters. And so Donald Trump yesterday, it was yesterday was the anniversary of that. And I put something out on X. And just the response to what I put out kind of made me think about, I need to I need to talk about this. When I come back, I'll tell you what I mean. Welcome back. Okay, so I'm talking about yesterday was the anniversary, one-year anniversary of the assassination

attempt on Donald Trump. So I put out a post on X, and it got like 100 retweets. And I thought, this is interesting because I put it out early yesterday morning. And I thought, this seems really tepid. This is a moment to celebrate, a one-year anniversary. of God's hand in our history of miraculously saving the life of President Trump for God's purposes in American history, which I know is true. And the tepid response, I thought, you know what, there are people out there that are so angry at Donald Trump right now that they're throwing

him under the bus. As far as they're concerned, he is a deep state asset. He is a traitor. He is because of what he said, supporting Pam Bondi and saying, we should forget about the Epstein case and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, wow, this is amazing. And one point that I wanted to bring up with regard to this is I'm always fascinated by how people, some of whom are not that bright and not that well informed, are so sure of themselves that they would denounce the president of the United States, who I believe is a great. man, and maybe the greatest president we've ever had, that they would denounce him over this one issue without taking a deep breath, without giving him grace and saying maybe there's more here than meets the eye, maybe President Trump has bigger fish to fry right now and is doing this strategically. Now, look, maybe that's not true. But I think events of history and Donald Trump

should by now have proved himself to us that we would say, you know what, even when I really disagree with him, I'm going to give him a little grace. We got to, this is tricky. We got to see how this is going to play out. Instead, people are acting like if the election were held tomorrow for president, they wouldn't vote for him. And I just want to say, I'm astonished by that,

absolutely astonished and sickened by that. I think, folks, even when somebody grievously disappoints you, you got to take a deep breath. You got to give them a little grace. We're in a war here. Not everybody's going to get everything right. And, you know, I think a couple of things. There are those who are saying Trump is playing such a brilliant hand of 4D, you know, chess, bad analogy there, that he's setting the same. stage because of what's coming. I don't know whether to believe that or not, but I also think it's

quite possible that this is even beyond deep state, that they have now come face to face with the principality that governs trafficking and pedophilia and sexual abuse at the highest, highest levels. And maybe they've even been thrown back on their heels. I can't explain, cash. Okay, now just to say what you, just to clarify what you said, you posted this on your Instagram account the other day, and I thought it was very important what you said, and you're reiterating here, but just to clarify for people, what we're dealing with. And Keith, you have seen this because you have worked to fight sex trafficking personally. You've seen this stuff.

Yes. We are dealing at the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, with gigantic. demonic powers. We are going against a level of satanic evil that should frighten you apart from utter dependence on Jesus. And if you think you can fight these things in the natural, you'll get spit out, you know, just like RFK and JFK were murdered. You're going up against the darkest things in the universe. That's part of it. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Yeah, because we've not seen Trump act this way. Dan Benjino and Cash Patel.

Bondi, I do think, should probably go. I think she's not handled things well. But you can, one thing that I posted, Eric, was that I believe generally this is a good administration. These are good people. I believe the last administration were professional well-oiled liars. Oh, listen. They peddle lives. But what you just said, you said, I believe generally this is a good administration.

I want to correct you and say, like, this is a great administration. This is an administration so great, we don't deserve it. And this is God's mercy to America to give us these heroes from Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, Pete Hegset, down the line, hero after hero after hero, the idea that people would would snipe in this way. I mean, we have every right to expect justice and truth and whatever. But people are saying, well, we haven't had arrests,

therefore they're dragging their feet. I mean, I get that. I get that. But at some point, you have to really trust that Donald Trump does care about what we care about. I'll tell you right now, folks, If you think Donald Trump would not do everything he possibly could to crush pedophile sex trafficking, I think you're crazy. I think you're crazy. If you don't think he cares about that as much as anybody.

But we are dealing with something that's very complicated. And I think, I guess I just want to say, I don't mean to cut you off, Keith, we're going to go to break. And when we come back, I'll let you say more. but I just want to say that I think it is about playing the long game, ladies and gentlemen. It is about playing the long game. And it seems to me that what the president was saying in his truth, social thing, is that the Department of Justice under Pam Bondi, Bongino and Patel at the FBI, they are going after some big, big fish. And we need to let them do that. We'll be right back.

folks we're talking about current events president trump all this crazy stuff epstein uh so keith jentz you were just making a point well my point and you were right to clarify that i i agree with you that this is a noble group they are heroes they've got a lot of integrity and nobility that we should trust but when we look at prior administrations that includes bush but obama and clinton and biden and They were so good at collectively packaging and laundering their lies that the populace just got, we just got so used to it. And even Corinne, John Pierre in the last administration, she lied every day from that podium. And what my point was going to be is that this group that we have now, they're not.

They're the opposite of that. And they, if they are being forced to lie, I watched Caroline Levitt at the podium. and I felt bad for her because she was having to defend Bondi, and I didn't think she believed what she was saying, because they're not good at lying. And that's actually a good thing. They're not good at it. And I think, like we were touching on,

they are all up against the reality of what they're facing right now. And it might be terrifying for some of them. And the end of that post they made was, we should be driven to our knees to pray for them. and pray against this darkness. Well, see, that's what really, the reason I wanted to get on here today to talk about this, that's where it all goes, is to say, in case you're wondering, ladies and gentlemen, we're not in a political war.

We're in a spiritual war with evil. Right. And if you do not have humility, if you think you've got all the answers, you will. My goodness, you've got to be kidding. me. You're attacking Charlie? You know, shame on you. That's ridiculous. I think that this attacking, attacking, attacking, we can be gracious. I don't agree with everything Laura Lumer says, but I don't attack her because I think she's a force for good. Just like so many people out there, and I would

include Tucker among them, he's a force for good. So when I disagree with him or I wonder, why is he saying that? This doesn't mean that I can't talk about what I disagree with. This doesn't mean that I can't question him, but to attack him viciously. In fact, I'll tell you, this morning, Laura Lumer on X posted that Tucker Carlson was not attacked by a demon in his sleep. He was possessed by a demon. That was her tweet, you know? And I want to say, okay, I'm pretty sure Laura Lumer doesn't even believe in demons.

I don't know what her theology is, but this is how vicious we're now getting. and I just think why? Why are we going to that level? It's just not right. It's just not right. Now, here's the other side of it, okay? Chip and Joanna Gaines. Oh, boy.

Maybe Keith, maybe you can sum that up. Oh, boy. Well, Chip and Joanna are beloved, you know, their television heroes, HDTV, fixer-upper. They got so big, they launched their own network called Magnolia. And they have, over the years, they have leaked, they've dropped some breadcrumbs that they are affirming. We'll use that term to the LGBTQ movement just by some of the guests and some of their handling of things. Well, now they're coming out with a new show on their network. So they're not being forced by HGTV.

This is their control. It's called Back to the Frontier. It's set in the 1800s. and they are going to do like a reality thing where they put a couple, a family out on the, on the, with only the things they would have had in the 1800s, and we watched them try to survive. So one of their stars, one of their focuses, will be a gay couple, two men who are raising two boys. And by the way, I poured through the annals of American history, and I marveled at the bravery of our gay historic American homesteaders who raised. They're purchased surrogate children on the prairie. But what's happening is because they've put this out,

and then everybody began to question and attack. Megan Basham has been right on point with her tone and her facts. And Chip, unfortunately, has completely fumbled this thing. And he's defending in ways that now it's just completely blown up. But the reason this is related to what we're talking about. talking about is you say, okay, here we have an issue of disagreement. And right. I think it is appropriate to to call out Chip and Joanna Gaines and say, listen, this is wrong. And we're not going to watch your show and we're going to tell everyone we know not to watch your show. What you're doing is wrong.

Right. And you know what? It comes back to the children again because Chip is saying all this hatred against gay people. It's like, well, hold on, Chip. You've got children involved here. So would you want your children to watch dad and dad walk out of the bedroom every morning? There's a level of not just abnormality. This is trauma for these kids that were denied the benefit of having a mother. They're growing up with these two men. And there are children at stake here. And they're going to now televise this and make it look normal.

And Chip has just been so off, surprisingly off the mark. And my closing line was that you go woke, you go broke back to the frontier. And that is true. And so there's a time to denounce stuff. There's a time to denounce stuff strongly. But I think how we do it. This is where I was going to say why at the beginning of all this, I said, I'm speaking as a Christian. We have to have the discernment.

What does it mean to say things in love? What does it mean to be loving? What does that mean? Sometimes it means we give grace to things we don't agree with. We give a platform to Julian Michaels, an open lesbian. We give a platform to Tucker Carlson saying things that whatever. Because it's a little complicated. You don't only have people on you agree with on everything, but it's part of a larger war.

and you, how do I put it, there are times when you do have to say no. And so Chip and Joanna Gaines, that's a classic example. You want to say to them, listen, Chip and Joanna, I get the idea of loving, you know, my gay and lesbian neighbors. But what does that mean? Does giving them a platform on a big show, like, is that good? It's not good. And we need to say that it's not good. and we even say that lovingly.

We say it strongly, but we say it lovingly. We'll be right back. If not for you, awake at night, to shining through. And we're going to have Ned Ryan, I believe, coming up here soon. But I want to keep going on this stuff. We're talking about how to disagree. That's what we're talking about. How, you know, how to show grace.

And I really believe there's a spirit of division. So you have people. MAGA people viciously attacking Steve Bannon Steve Bannon viciously attacked Elon Musk

I don't agree with this stuff folks I don't agree with it there's things I disagree with Steve Bannon about he's a hero I don't think he needs me to attack him there's things I disagree with President Trump about I'll give you an example

Two days ago, he put out a truth social post. I thought inappropriately attacking Rosie O'Donnell. I thought to myself, you're the president of the United States. The power that God has given you, the authority that God has given you is so immense that for you to stoop to, you know, attacking Rosie O'Donnell, it is beneath you, sir. also at this point, my God, you know, I don't know what I don't, I almost don't want to talk about it. But it really upset me that that someone that I love and respect would, would stoop to taking a shot at Rosie O'Donnell. Now, we understand Donald Trump really doesn't know how not to punch back.

So if somebody says something to him, even if it's Rosie O'Donnell, who's, I just believe the sad woman. I want to give her a hug. I do. I feel bad for her. She's so lost and bitter and stuff. And I think it just makes it worse when you, I mean, I think there's a time to show grace. And that goes for President Trump. If it were my call, I would, if I was part of his inner circle, I would beg him in the name of Jesus to show grace to this woman.

But, you know, I have to show grace to President Trump. Right. We're in a war. We're in a great war. And like they say, the Democrats don't have this problem. They do stick together. They rarely attack each other. They vote in lockstep. And the poor Republicans, we do shoot at our own a little bit too often. And you know, some of this is attacked by association, Eric. And I think of our friend Francis Chan, Pastor Francis Chan, such a good man. And he takes. takes heat because he will appear on the same stage with a Preston Sprinkle, or he sat down with LeCray. These are these are progressive Christians. And he said, he goes, I don't care who I associate with, who lets me speak. As long as I can speak the truth, I'll sit down with anybody. And so Charlie should not be attacked for giving a platform to Tucker. I don't even think that's what he did.

But I hope Trump could see the same thing. It's like we can't, we've got to hold the umbrella together, right? You mean the tent, the big umbrella? And the tent, the umbrella that's over the tent. Now, on the issue of Preston Sprinkle and whoever else, I would disagree. And you see, this is where we're going to even disagree with people we love. I'm going to disagree with Francis Chan on that, but I'm not going to demonize Francis Chan over that. it's one of these things where I think maybe there's no right answer.

Maybe we each have a point and we have to work. There's a time you have to show grace. So you know, he sat down with his Chan for that. He did recently did an interview with LeCray and I thought, uh-oh, here we go. This is going to be bad. And Chan was brilliant in it. And so it allows you to see the error of Lecray. Yeah.

Well, I think, hey, lucky for our audience. we're out of time in hour one. We'll be right back with hour two. We've got a lot more, folks. Don't go away.