The Eric Metaxas Show - Eric Reflects on the Life and Faith of Charlie Kirk and the Reality of Spiritual War

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Yesterday, the world lost Charlie Kirk, Eric reflects on his friendship with Charlie and the incredible life he led. 

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. We'll get you from point A to point B. But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own. But if you'll wait right here in just about two minutes, the bus to point C will be coming right by. And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the Airways, Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Good morning. What happened yesterday makes it even challenging to say,

good morning, which you know. My dear friend, my brother in Christ, Charlie Kirk, was murdered yesterday. You knew that. I had already pre-recorded a program for today, and tomorrow I wasn't planning to even do radio today. We rarely change our plans. but what happened yesterday, there's so much to say. I want to say up front, first of all, I'm not going to try to say everything today. On Monday and Tuesday, after I've had some more time to think about this, we'll have a number of guests.

We'll do more justice to what happened. We'll try on Monday and on Tuesday. I've been working on an essay about this that I'm going to send out to my email list today, Ericmetaxis.com. If you're signed up for my newsletter, you'll get my thoughts. But for now, let me just say a couple of things. I loved Charlie, and I think I would embarrass him. when I would say to him, I love you, Charlie.

You know, when young men are kind of funny that way. But I'm a Christian, and I'm not, and I'm older, so I'm not embarrassed about telling people I love them, especially when I do. And oftentimes, Charlie would give a speech or something. I'd be next on the docket or whatever it was, and he's coming off. I'd be like, I love you, Charlie.

because he was, we all know this, he was an outrageously special, outrageously special gifted human being. I can say bluntly, other than Donald Trump, I cannot think of anyone with more outrageous, raw talent from God. Let's be clear, it's from God. God invented and created Donald Trump. God created, invented and created Charlie Kirk. And I was in awe of Charlie's talent.

And probably he was too, because, you know, you don't know if you're 12 feet tall, like you can't take credit for your height, but it's a little wild to realize. Charlie was 12 feet tall. He had a gift that was just an outrageous gift from. God. But what you can do is you can use it for yourself or for God's purposes. He used it for God's purposes. That I know. I also said yesterday on X that it's not too soon to say Charlie was a murder. He was murdered for his faith in Jesus Christ at the heart of everything he did. This is no exaggeration. I mean, there are lots of conservatives out there who I would say, oh, yeah, he's a Christian,

but it wasn't the motivating force for them. For Charlie, it was. That was at the heart of everything he believed. It was at the heart of his worldview. His worldview didn't come out of, you know, Edmund Burke and William F. Buckley. It came from the Bible, filtered through Edmund Burke and William F. Buckley and a number of other heroes, Rush Limbaugh, of course.

But his faith was at the heart of everything for him. And I know that because I knew Charlie personally, prayed with Charlie. It wasn't, his faith wasn't an afterthought or it wasn't an add-on. It was at the heart of everything. So his murder yesterday was, he's a martyr. He's a martyr. Some of you know I'm writing a book on the American Revolution. In the early days of the American Revolution, one of the great heroes,

Not so much remembered today, but one of the truly great heroes was Joseph Warren, Dr. Joseph Warren. He was the animating force of the whole cause before the revolution. And he was killed at the Battle of Bunker Hill. So just at the very beginning of the beginning, he was killed. Everyone felt that loss the way we today feel the loss of Charlie. everyone assumed that this was the leader of the cause. Joseph Warren was the leader of the cause. He would have been commander-in-chief of the army instead of George Washington, would have been the first president before George Washington. I mean, Joseph Warren, but God who is sovereign allowed Joseph Warren to leave this world at the Battle of Bunker Hill. just as God who is sovereign allowed Charlie to leave this world now rather than 30 or 60 years from now,

which would have been more acceptable to us. So there's a lot here, but we've got to say that Charlie was a martyr, is a martyr. the most important thing in his life was his faith in Jesus. And God is sovereign. And the God who is sovereign, this is hard for us to process, but I need to say this. God who is sovereign, who pointedly saved Donald Trump's life from what ought to have been his murder, did not save Charlie's life. yesterday. That is very hard for us to process that God could have, and he didn't. God allows evil.

We praise God in all circumstances. At least if you know God the way Charlie did, and I do, you do. You praise God. Even when it barely makes sense, it makes no natural sense, but you praise God. One thing I want to say is that Charlie fulfilled his assignment. Our mutual friend Jack Hibbs said yesterday in a post the words for Charlie are well done good and faithful servant he fulfilled his assignment and what he did in his short 31 years my goodness is so monumental it is so monumental that endless things are going to follow from it it's not like he's done like what he did he has raised up an army of people who love truth. Okay? When I say an army, not an army to be violent the way the secular left stoops to violence and murder. No, to be the enemies of violence. To go to war with violence through nonviolent means, through love and truth and words and prayer, that's the God

that Charlie knew and worshipped and gave his life for. lived his life for and gave his life for. That's the God we worship. So yes, we are in a spiritual war, but it's a spiritual war. And anybody stupid enough not to get that to resort to violence is playing into the hands of the enemy of God, playing into the hands of the enemies of truth. we are called to love radically, to pray for our enemies, to know there but for the grace of God, go I. And so the left has stooped to embrace what?

Filth and power and violence. They have become that. They were not always that in this country. They have become that. And I hope that the death of my friend will wake some of them up to see what they have become. It is, it is, this is a tough moment. I've just got a few other things to share. But I, I'm mostly speechless.

Most of what I have to say, I'll say in my, in my newsletter today, Ericmataxis.com. I'll put it on X. This is very, this is hard to process. but we praise we praise Jesus in the midst of all this darkness we praise God okay i'll be right back a major retail chain just canceled a massive order leaving my pillow with an overstock of the classic my pillows and this is your gain because for a limited time my pillow is offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices get a standard my pillow for just 1798 want more upgrade to queen size for only 2298 or king size for 2498.

Snag body pillows for 2998 and versatile multi-use pillows for just 998. Give your bed a whole new pillow set only while supplies last. Visit mypillow.com today. Use promo code Eric or call 800-97830577 to score these amazing deals while they're in stock. Plus when your order totals $75 or more, you'll receive $100 in free digital gifts, no strings attached. That's right. Premium pillows at unbeatable prices and bonus gifts to top it off. Don't wait, head to MyPillow.com today or call 800-978 3057. Now don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard My Pellow for only 1798 only while supplies last.

Hey there, folks. Welcome back. It's September 11th. And normally on September 11th, I would talk about September 11th. And in fact, in the next segment, we will play what I recorded yesterday about September 11th, my memories of September 11th. But it's kind of funny because September 11th was one of those days in your life that you'll never, never, never, never, never forget. Just like I will never, never, never, never forget ever September 10th, 2025 yesterday. I was, so when we come back, just to be clear, in the next part of this hour, I'm going to play, we'll play what I recorded yesterday, my memories of September 11th, 25 years ago almost.

And then after that, we're going to play. I had a conversation with my friend Dinesh D'Souza about the film he has coming out. Sometimes I actually think it's good for us to get our minds off of the thing. And the thing, you know, the murder of my friend Charlie, we can obsess on this. And it's kind of mentally healthy, emotionally healthy to talk about something else. So in the next segment, I'll play what I recorded yesterday about 9-11, my memories of 9-11. Then after that, I have a part of my conversation with my friend Dinesh DeSuzza about his new film, which is based on the book written by our friend Jonathan Khan.

So that's this hour. In Hour 2, I had a great conversation yesterday with my friend Larry Taunton, and I want to play that in Hour 2. Tomorrow I will play a very important conversation I had with Mel Kay. Some of you know her. She's amazing. We recorded that yesterday. for tomorrow.

And on Monday and Tuesday, after we've had some time to reflect, I'm going to go all in on talking about my friend Charlie, my friend Charlie Kirk. You know, I met Charlie when he was 24, and I was astonished as anybody with a brain would have to be at his talent, an awe-inspiring kind of talent. and you realize, wow, what is God going to do with this? And there was no doubt in my mind as I got to know him better over the years because I saw him everywhere and we had all kinds of encounters here and there

and conversations, mostly joky, joking, joking, joking, teasing, which is the joy of those kinds of friendships. I have the same kind of friendship with Dennis Prager. Just you have to work to stop joking. but I was kind of, there was no doubt, as I observed Charlie over the years, that there's no doubt, and this is a crazy thing to say, but it's a fact. There's no doubt that he will be president, you know, unless he's murdered. There's no doubt, and not just president, but a great president.

I mean, he had a level of talent that was truly astonishing. I don't say this lightly. The only person I could compare him to is President Trump. Just a level of gifting that you're just, you're in awe of the ability, this innate ability that is so extraordinary. A few moments ago, I compared Charlie to Joseph Warren, Dr. Joseph Warren, who was just one of the heroes of the revolution and who was cut down very early in life. if he was in his 30s and he would have gone on to be, you know, a George Washington figure. There's no doubt about it. And how God and his sovereignty allows these things.

And I've often said, I said it in my book, Religinalist Christianity. I think it's the first line of my most recent book, Religinalist Christianity, that we are in a spiritual war. But I believe it's the Lord's will that we win this war, this spiritual war. This is not a war with guns, folks. And I'll say it again, anybody stupid enough to try to retaliate. You are in bed with the devil if you are that foolish that you would, that you would not understand that this is a spiritual war. But when you're in a spiritual war, and it is a war, it's a cultural war, it's a political war. even if you know you're going to win, which we will, I believe that's God's will, that we take our country back, that we restore common sense, all of that.

Even if you know in the end you win, in a war, there are casualties. And Charlie Kirk's death, he's a casualty in the war. if you would have said to George Washington in 1776, listen, we're going to win. Well, that's great. That's what makes you keep going and keep fighting. But there will be casualties. And there were many, many, many, many casualties in the revolution. So one of the things we have to remind ourselves of is what Charlie,

knew and I know, but we have to remind ourselves, is that this world is not all there is. There is another world. And our ultimate fidelity is to God. We want to live out those values in this world. And it's important that we remember that. We keep our eyes focused on that. I was saying before that Jack Hibbs, who I was just at an event in California with Jack and Charlie a few weeks ago, a T-P-U-S-A faith event. And Jack just said that, you know, Charlie, he fought the good fight and he could hear the words of his Heavenly Father, well done, thou good and faithful servant.

that's what we should all long to do. And that's really what God's will is for us, is to let something like this horrible murder motivate us to live more boldly for God and to stop pretending that, oh, it's not so bad and everything's fine. No, we're in a war with evil, folks. But when you're in a war with evil, something like this reminds you you're in a war with evil and it reminds you you have to live more radically for God's purposes. And number one, it means loving your enemies by praying for your enemies and by doing

what Charlie did. I mean, he lived this out. He would go on campuses as he did yesterday when he was murdered and he would, in a civil way, talk respectfully to people who sometimes hated his guts, talk respectfully to them, not respond in hate. incredible to my mind that he had the ability to do that, the self-discipline, to smile and not to respond in kind. So, well, all right, so when we come back, I got my, just yesterday, I had some reflections on 9-11. This will all seem dated now.

I'll talk to Dinesh D'Souza about the film coming up in our. or two. I talked to my friend Larry Taunton. But for now, let me just say yesterday, you know, it's incredible. I recorded the show, drove Connecticut, went to the gym. When I got to the gym, I got a text, Charlie's been shot in the neck, put out a video for people to pray. I did that right away. Not long after that, a friend who is close to Charlie's family texted me. that they were pretty sure he did not survive. And that, you know, you just reel. I just reeled.

I said, that cannot be, that's not, it's too horrible, too horrible to imagine, too horrible. And so I kept praying. I prayed with Suzanne while it was at the gym. And then I got another text from a friend who is also. close to the situation and he said he didn't make it, he's with Jesus. And so I sat on the weight bench and I put my head in my hands, covered my eyes and just cried. That's a normal reaction, folks. That's a normal reaction. I'm going to have a lot to say about this on Monday and Tuesday. We'll reflect on this. We'll know more what's going on. But I just think that the most

important thing now is to motivate everybody if your life was ever touched by Charlie Kirk to dedicate your life number one to Jesus of Nazareth number one before anything before anything the most important thing give your life to Jesus open your heart say a prayer God if you are real into my heart miraculously. Show me who you are. Show me yourself. Lead me and guide me that I can live my life the way you want me to live it. So that when I go into your presence, people will say that person didn't waste his life one tiny bit.

That's what I think we need to do. I'll just, I'll leave it there. We've got plenty more coming up on Monday and Tuesday, but I just wanted to say this for now. So we'll just, we'll go back to our regular programming and God bless you. September 11th. Now, September 11th, it's one of those haunting dates. It becomes increasingly less haunting as the years pass. And I think I said yesterday, I'm glad about that.

I was in New York when it happened. I'll never forget it. But I would like to forget it. It was not pleasant. I remember having a weird feeling in the pit of my stomach for about a year because it was so disorienting to see something unprecedented happened, to see the nightmare, the unthinkable nightmare of the Twin Towers falling in front of my eyes. I mean, I remember watching it live on TV. And it never happened to me before,

but I remember watching the TV. I was home alone. And when I saw the tower fall, something happened to me that's never happened to me in my life, I burst into tears. I knew instantly thousands of people had just died in front of my eyes. It was a horrible moment. It was horrible, and it's almost impossible to make sense of something like that. And it's because of the unprecedentedness of it. You've never lived to anything like that. There are plenty people who've lived through horrors. There are people you're listening to me right now who you've lived through horrible stuff. You've had loved ones murdered. You many people, you've been in war zones.

You've seen terrible things or you've experienced terrible things. You've been raped. You've been violated or assaulted in other ways. If you've experienced those things, it's hard to explain it to somebody who hasn't experienced it. But most people, when 9-11 happened, who grew up as I did in a fairly stable country, you hadn't been prepared for that. And so it was so. It was so. stunning. I even remember that day, and most people hardly ever talk about this, but the tremendous uncertainty of what was going to happen next. I mean, as we look back 24 years, we know what happened, but at the time, you didn't know what was going to happen. So if a plane crashes into a tower

and another plane crashes into another tower and you watch them go down, I mean, it is just impossible to comprehend. And then a plane hits the Pentagon. And then another fourth plane crashes in a field in western Pennsylvania. By God's grace, that plane did not achieve its target, which was the U.S. capital. So at the time, this stuff is going on, and you don't know what's going to happen next. Is the Empire State Building going to be taken out? There was no way of knowing.

And I will, I'll never forget that feeling of having no idea what is going to happen next. So Suzanne and I and our daughter, who was at the time two, you know, we were in our apartment just glued to the TV because you don't want to go out. We were living in Manhattan four hours north of the site. And you could smell, and we did smell this sickly sweet smoke, which, uh, we were. was smoke containing the ashes of human beings. It was, you know, to use the cliche surreal, I remember the next morning saying, I've got to see if I can get a newspaper.

And I went out and to go out of your home in Manhattan and to see nobody on the sidewalks. It was like out of an episode of the Twilight Zone where the Earth is, you know, there's nobody left on. planet Earth and you're alone. It was absolutely surreal. If you saw one person or two people, you looked at each other, you know, with tears in your eyes practically because we're alive. Somehow we're alive. And I remember getting a newspaper managing to get a newspaper, which is

itself crazy. And I think that afternoon, Suzanne and I wanted to take our daughter in her stroller just to get out of the house. And we went to a nearby park on the west. sorry, on the East River near the UN. And there was almost no one out. It was so bizarre. This was September 12th. It was absolutely so bizarre. Now, of course, you know, for a few weeks,

America was united as it's never been. but then eventually, sadly, we went back to, you know, where we were before, not really caring about the fundamentals, God, life, liberty. We just kind of went back. And then, of course, George W. Bush and his neocon buds decided that attacking Iraq in Afghanistan and, you know, launching the end of the wars was the answer, which we now know, of course, it was not. not. So it really is, it's a strange thing. And it's strange to have such mixed feelings to think that we were all together about, you know, going after Osama bin Laden. And then somehow, uh, we didn't get him and didn't get him and didn't get him. I mean, it's amazing that you have to go into the Obama administration before we, we actually got him. How is it possible that we didn't get him?

I have no idea. I don't know what to make of it. But it's all, um, it's all strange. It's all strange stuff. Okay, so today on the program, I believe today I'm talking to my friend Dinesh D'Souza. He has made a film about the book that Jonathan Sacks has put out. Dinesh has made a film. I am in the film. I play the role of a confused cocktail waitress. and actually that might be wrong.

I'm just reading a teleprompter right now. I think I play myself in the film, but we'll talk to Dinesh about that. I think he'll be on the program today. My friend Larry Taunton is back on the program. We haven't talked to him in a little while, and I look forward to talking to him. All right, we'll be right back.

Welcome back. My guest is Dinesh D'Souza. talking about a brand new film called The Dragons Prophecy based on the book by our friend Jonathan Khan. And Dinesh, before we forget, where can people find the film? The film is out right around October 7th, so it's in theater, it's October 6th and October 8th, the two days around October 7th. It's also going to be streaming and on DVD the next day, October 9th. And all tickets at the website, The Dragons Prophecy Film.com.

The Dragons Prophecy Film. Film.com. You can order streaming and DVD now. Look, this is a film kind of made for the second anniversary of October 7th, but it has an enlarged perspective that shows us what America's role is here and also what our role is. Because one of the points that Khan makes very profound, I think, is that, look, if battles are going back to the beginning, if the Jews of today need to be tough and put on armor like the ancient Israelites did, then guess what? what? We who are the sort of spiritual Jews, we who are the spiritual Israelites, we the Christians, we need to go back to the way Christians were in the book of Acts. We need to have a kind of new

fervor, a new dynamism to our faith and a recognition of the spiritual stakes involved. That's what this film, it tries to help that process and help that kind of enlightenment. And what was it that led you, Dinesh D'Souza, to say, I want to make a film about this, because I know you, I know Jonathan Kahn, but when I heard that you were making a film of his book, I thought, wow, what a great idea. What was your process in that? Eric, I went to Israel for the first time with my wife, Debbie,

in December of 22. I was exposed to biblical archaeology for the first time. In fact, right about that time I read your book, is atheism dead? I was blown away at this idea that as the world becomes more secular, and you and I talk about this in the film, God is speaking back, is whispering, if you will, through the tablets and the artifacts and the stones and the seals. So I knew about all that. And then comes October 7th. And I go, you know what? This is a very interesting topic.

But I didn't realize it initially that the topic of biblical archaeology and October 7th were connected in that they go back to the fundamental question of whose land is it. So I had the past, the archaeology, the present, October 7th. And then I encountered John who comes on my podcast and talks about prophecy, and I'm like, whoa, we have the past, we have the present, we have the future. I think I can weave this together in a very interesting tapestry, and I'm very proud to say, I think this film delivers that in a big way. What do you make, Dinesh, of voices on the right? Like, I guess Tucker Carlson is a classic example that I've been on his show and I admire him, but he seems to see things differently. I guess I'm, you know, I always want to get stuff right. You don't just want to be an

apologist for Israel no matter what. But it really seems like there's this strange narrative out there that there are people that just a few years ago, I would have agreed with them on everything, but they have some view that, you know, 1948 is meaningless. Israel becoming a country, the Jews coming together after thousands of years away. That's meaningless. Who cares? It doesn't It's a strange thing to me because, I mean, I'm interested in what's true, but I find it hard to believe that that idea makes any sense, that it's a meaningless thing that Israel has been reconstituted. Tucker has some real moral blind spots. This is one of them. I've known Tucker Carlson 30 years. He worked for me in his early career. The two of us were on a speaking tour together in Australia just last year. We got along just fine. But Tucker does not know or understand the Bible. at all. Recently, I just saw him in one of his interviews, and he said this phrase, what is Judea and Samaria? And he wasn't asking sort of rhetorically, he didn't know. So you have a guy

like Tucker who thinks somehow that there is a disconnect between the Jews in Israel today and the ancient Israelites. The big question he posed to Ted Cruz was, are you really saying that the Jews of today are descended from the ancient Israelites? And the answer is, duh, yes. But, because it's not like some, the Jews were scattered in a diaspora, and some other sneaky non-Jews came and, you know, impersonated the actual Jews and came to Israel and said, here we are! And the real Jews got lost somewhere in Ukraine or Lithuania. I mean, this is like madness.

But it's being put out there with a straight face. Lots of people are falling for it. As well as the canard that a country of 10 million people, with a tiny GDP relative to ours, no kind of weaponry comparable to ours is somehow controlling us, almost as if someone would make a claim that the mosquito is controlling the elephant. I have to ask you, for some reason, on my Instagram feed, I have no idea why, but a couple days ago, all of this Nick Fuente's stuff kept coming up.

And I thought this is a diabolical figure. His hatred for the Jews, it actually frightened me, his racism. And I realized you debated him recently. What can you say? Well, Nick Fuentes has a kind of cult following, and it's on the right. And he was going out there basically saying, Charlie Kirk is a wimp. He won't debate me. You know, Shapiro, the Jew, won't debate me.

So I was like, you know what? I'll debate him. And I realized that Nick Fuentes basically, to him, history begins around like 2001. Because his big point is like, regime change is bad. Look at what happened in Iraq. And I was like, well, yeah, but there was regime. change in Germany, in Japan. There was, I can give you 40 examples of regime change that turned out beautifully. So I just went through this and you could just see his sort of startled face. I think

we're dealing here with a generational gap of knowledge and understanding. Fuentes and Tucker have something in common is that they both like to take the thing that nobody likes to say and say it really loudly. And part of their idea of going after Israel is based on this kind of, I I think juvenile iconoclasm. Juvenile iconoclasm. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. And I want to be really clear.

I like Tucker. I can disagree with Tucker on some stuff, but I really like him. Nick Fuentes, honestly, what I see, I find frightening, the fact that he has a cult following among people who are too ignorant to understand what he's pushing. Because it is a really,

you can feel the spiritual darkness of his hatred for the Jews. And he loves to take things in a real. really racist direction. And it's kind of funny because, you know, people like you and me, we're accused sometimes of being racist, whatever, and we are absolutely not that. But because of figures like him who really is racist, people on the right kind of get lumped in with that. It's a frightening thing. We've got a final segment coming up with Dinesh. The film is the Dragon's Prophecy. Folks, this is important. It's going to come out October 6th, 7th, 8th. Stay tuned for that. We'll be right back with Dinesh D'Souza.

Back, final segment with Dinesh DeSuzza. Dinesh, you were in Israel recently and you spoke directly with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Tell us about it. Yeah, I got 30 minutes one-on-one with him, and there's about five minutes of him in the film. I'm saving the rest just to do on my podcast later. But I wanted to, you know, Netanyahu is so much under siege worldwide that when I've seen him in interviews, he's very kind of clipped. He's very stiff. He knows what he has.

to say, and he speaks in a very measured way. So I wanted to throw him off his stride to bring out the real Netanyahu, which is like the real Trump. It's actually better than the canned Netanyahu. And so I unloaded some questions on him like, what do you think of Jesus? So right away, you can see his face. You know, he has to comment on Jesus. And he has very, he has very interesting things to say. And you have a very animated Netanyahu, who is a friendly sparring partner for me. And I think this Netanyahu is someone that people were really like, because he's been demonized, as you know, on the world stage. I think he's a hero. But very often, the Netanyahu that people need to see is not the Netanyahu that they do see.

And so I try to bring a little snapshot of Netanyahu in the film where people go, wow, that guy is a real character. And guess what? We are America first. He's Israel first, and he has every right to be. Well, of course he does. So you got Dinesh D'Souza gets Benjamin Netanyahu to let his hair down. And you did it without vodka. You just did it by throwing some questions.

I love that. I'm looking forward to seeing that. Now, you invited me to be in the film to talk about biblical archaeology. And it is fascinating. Obviously, you read my book, is atheism dead. But when I discovered myself the evidence for the book, Bible from, from archaeology, it becomes open and shut. It's not like, well, there's some evidence. It is more and more and more coming out. And it really does feel like God's hand. It's like the Lord is

saying, okay, now I want to bring this information out about science, pointing to God, about archaeology, pointing to the Bible as history. We're living in historic times. And you do bring that out in the film, that this is not just, you know, kind of more of what we've grown up with. Something has changed. Yeah. Here is your role in the You know, we have Jonathan Kahn giving this kind of spirited biblical analysis, but our audience is not exclusively Christian. And so I have to step back and say, all right, but there are people who are going to say, well, how can we trust the Bible? It's maybe like Greek mythology, like King Arthur, maybe this stuff is all made up. So when you talk about Pontius Pilate,

when you talk about the childhood home of Jesus, we went to all those places. And so we're showing the audience straight up, guess what? Here's Pontius Pilate. This is the fourth. This is the first historical reference to Pontius Pilate outside the Bible, and it's indisputable, and here it is. And so what we're doing with your section in the film is validating the historicity of the Bible as a kind of tool or template of analysis. And so it legitimizes where Jonathan Khan is going. It fits beautifully together. You're going to love this film, Eric. Once again, if I can say, the Dragons Prophecy Film.com, that's the website. You can order a streaming now, you can get your DVDs now, and it's in theater.

Tickets will be up in a week or so. You can get your tickets for the theater on October 6th and on October 8th. And dare I say it's an important film. That's the point, folks. There's a lot of films. This is important. It's important that we understand this, and it is important that we understand that the Bible is historical.

And I can understand people who don't get that because they haven't been confronted with the more recent evidence. More and more and more evidence has come out. Obviously, I write about it in my book, and Dinesh talks to me about it in the film. It is a startling thing that we're alive at a time where we can see this. And so we can present this evidence to people who aren't on the same page. And it's actually important we do, and it's important for ourselves that we know this is not something we believe. It's just true. So the film, The Dragons Prophecy, you can find it at the Dragons Prophecy Film.com.

Dinesh D'Souza, thank you so much. Eric, always a pleasure.