The Eric Metaxas Show - E.W. Jackson (continued)

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Bishop E.W. Jackson continues his discussion of "Sweet Land of Liberty," and reveals what forces and ideas within the Democrat Party caused him to leave it.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. But now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas. Hey folks, welcome to what we call Hour 2. In Our 2, we continue the conversation from Hour 1 with E.W. Jackson, author of Sweet Land of Liberty, Reflections of Patriot descended from Slaves.

Sweet Land of Liberty. It's such a beautiful phrase from a beautiful song. You love this country, and you are articulate about why you love this country. and we've been talking about that. So you, I just want to continue with your story. So you decide at some point, you're in Massachusetts at UMass, and you're obviously gifted, intellectually gifted. So you're doing well. What was your major?

Philosophy. Oh, geez. Philosophy. Where does that come from? Well, you know, it started when I was in the Marine Corps, believe it or not. I started reading philosophical books. and found I just loved it. Like what? I can't believe it. You're in the Marine Corps.

You grow up in a, in foster homes, your troubled kid committing petty crimes. How do you end up in the Marine Corps reading philosophical books? Like, well, who put what into your hands at the wrong time? You know, I always love words. Always. Even growing up, you know, once I began to do well academically, I fell in love with words.

I would get the reader's digest and try to memorize all the vocabulary words of the readers digest. I got that weird gene, too. I think we got it from different ancestors, but I got the same weird gene. So you just had this innate love of words and learning. And I was actually reading Socrates and Plato and just decided, why don't I major in something I already love?

And I wanted to go to law school because I'd met lawyers while I was in room for. But black people don't do well in philosophy departments. Didn't somebody tell you that? So you decide to major in philosophy. So this is in the 70s at UMass philosophy major. Did you study Thales? I just wanted, this is just an opportunity for a dumb joke. Thales was a pre-Socratic, but Thales did not know that.

I just want to be clear about that. But we know that about Thales. All right, so you major in philosophy, and then what? You know, it's interesting. I really believe that in part I was searching for truth. I wasn't saved then. I really believe I was searching for truth, trying to understand what was life really all about. And of course, I remember reading Soren Kierkegaard, purity of heart is to will one thing.

And sort of going, what is that? What does he really mean? What is willing one thing? And so in some ways, I really believe that that was one of the pathways God used to get me saved. Because when I got saved, I began to read the Bible as one of those philosophical books. Isn't interesting, though, because I mean, I was an English major, but for me it was the same thing. Even though I wouldn't have said it, I was actually searching for truth. And I knew that innately.

And if you're searching for truth, you know, you're going to travel along these paths. Plato, Socrates, Kierkegaard. Kierkegaard was a Christian. It's kind of interesting how you, you know, you find your way. And so at what point did you? you become a Christian? Wow. My father got saved late in life and I went to work at a law firm and stayed with him for one summer in Philadelphia. We lived in Chester, Pennsylvania, but I was working for a law firm in Philadelphia. And before I left, my father said to me, guess what I'm doing?

Now he saved a different man, okay? I mean, loving father, good father, but now a different man because now he's an actual disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. He said to me, I'm reading the Bible from cover to cover. He said, and I, it's just, it's an amazing thing. On my way home, Eric, I thought to myself, well, I don't know about all this Christian stuff, but the Bible is one of the important books in society, and I'm studying the great books. I want to read the Bible out of intellectual interest, you know. And that's how I mean, but that's, but that's just true. In other words, if you want to know history, if you want to understand culture, you want to understand anything, you'd be a fool not to be familiar with the Bible. And so just for that reason alone, you're reading it, and it has this

magical effect. Oh, my goodness. You know, my wife would come home from church on a Sunday morning before I was saved, and I would look at her and say, how much of my money did you give that preacher today? My wife would look at me. So you married a Christian woman. Oh, that's so good. She would shake her head, just the demon possessed right up to the eyeballs. And I was, but I started reading. in September, 1976, and when I came across David, that's when conviction started to happen.

Really? Because David was such a strong warrior of a man, you know, a model of a man. Yeah. But yet tender and loving about God. And it got me. What makes this man talk about God like he's his best friend,

like he's in love with him? And that was when I began to say, well, Lord, whatever you showed him, if you're real, show me. and he did. Wow. He did. So December 22nd, 1976, I say the old song captures it.

I woke up this morning with my mind stayed on Jesus. He invaded that room. I walked out of that bedroom that morning and found my wife sweeping my son's bedroom, tapped on the shoulder and said, what church do you go to? I think I want to go to church with you on Sunday because you know what? I think I'm saved. Needless to say, she almost fell out. I don't think it's going to last.

That's just my guess. Wow. Yes. Okay. So this happens for you. And you are at this time, are you at, this is just before, you're at the law school now. I'm in Harvard Law School. I'm right smack in the middle on the Christmas break when I got saved.

So I'm a year and a half in. I got a year and a half to go. And when I went back, whoa, the reaction was as dramatic as my. What do you mean? Because I went back a different man than I left. I mean, I left a salty Marine Corps veteran, you know, cursing and drinking and doing it. And I come back talking about Jesus. Yeah.

And you know, my wife told my mother-in-law when at first he said, Harvard Law School has been too much. He woke up this morning talking about Jesus. Something is wrong. He's cracked. They got to him. He cracked. Exactly. So, wow, that's honestly, that's so amazing.

Did you get to hear Solzhenitson's address in 1978 at the Harvard? Because that was the Harvard undergraduate graduation. So I don't know if that would have been separate. That was the undergraduate graduation. And no, I did not. Well, it's so interesting. So you graduate law school in 78. But you had, by that point, you took a few classes at the divinity school.

Now, we all know that those divinity schools are not exactly evangelical, Bible-believing divinity schools. I don't know what you. you experienced in the 70s. It was bad. Yeah. It was bad. Yeah. I literally went home at times with my faith shaken. Yeah. I mean, because I'm a young Christian. That's their goal. That's their goal. It's, but anyway, you got out of there and your faith was still real. You were ordained as a pastor in 1979. Now, did you know what you wanted to do with your life at that point? I mean, here you are, you have a Yale law degree. You're ordained a pastor.

I'm sorry, you have a Harvard law degree. You're ordained as a pastor. Did you want to be full-time ministry as a pastor, or did you want to do law? Where were you? Eric, I actually left law school for a week, thinking that I want to go serve God. What am I doing in law school? Right. And a week later, God convicted me that that was not the leader.

of the Spirit of God, that was me. And so I went back and my dean said, I never touched you. You have not been unenrolled. Just go back to class. So that's how conflicted I was. I felt a desire to practice law, but a calling to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. That was what I really wanted. So I was kind of following the typical Baptist track. You know, you get called to a church and you pastor that church and then you get called to a bigger church and that kind of thing. So that's how my ministry started. So you did, so you obviously graduated Harvard Law School. Yes. But then you did start pastoring in a Baptist church.

Started pastoring and practicing law at the same time. Yes. And which has been done before. I've got a friend who's a pastor and a lawyer. It could happen. So, but you, it sounds to me like you never really bought into, you know, the cultural Marxist anti-American ideas. You know, I was very interesting.

in public policy because one of the things that happened when I got saved was God convicted me that this country is a gift from him and Christians are stewards of it. I mean, all right. Now that, we're going to stop there. We'll be right back. That's a great idea. We'll continue with that in just a moment. Don't go away. I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of iconic American brands selling us out to appease radical leftists. But it's not just beer and sneakers. For years, big mobile companies. have been dumping millions into leftist causes, and we had to take it because another option didn't exist.

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Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Bishop E.W. Jackson, the new book, Sweet Land of Liberty. So you were just talking about something that obviously very close to my heart, this idea that America is really God's idea. And he has been using this country. Liberty, real liberty, self-government is his idea. We see it, of course, in the covenant relationship that Israel has with God, directly with God. And here it is again. And of course, there are people trying to destroy it. And you are trying to help us understand how it's a glorious thing that we need to preserve. And we are in a fight.

We're in a war to preserve these things. I learned duty to my country in the Marine Corps. I fell in love with my country when I became a Christian. Because I realized I was not here by accident. This is not just something that I plopped down from somewhere, but that this was the plan. of God for me. And then I saw it in Acts 1726. He is made from one blood, every nation of men, to dwell on all the face of the earth and determine their pre-appointed times and the boundaries

of their dwellings. And I realized I had a role to play in being a steward, a citizen of this country. I wasn't sure how that would play out. But the only thing I knew was the Democrat Party, and I got involved in the Democrat Party and realized it wasn't very Christian. And so... Even back then. Even, oh, yes. Even back then. No, I know. I know. It's interesting, though, because a lot of times people still think, you know, there are people who don't get involved politically. They go, it's all the same. You know, Tip O'Neill, he's still the speaker, right? No. It has gotten worse and worse and worse and worse to the point where now it is, you know, led by cultural Marxists who are anti-American, anti-Christian, which I'm sorry to say that, but that's a fact. And it's very bleak. But you and I both know this didn't start yesterday. This has been happening more and more as the years of pay. past. No, when I got involved with the Democrat Party, I met Barney Frank, who was at that point not an open, openly practicing homosexuality or known as a, quote-unquote, gay person.

But it was clear that the policies of the party were very much in favor of abortion and homosexuality and these sorts of things. And I came under conviction at that point and realized, well, Lord, I thought you wanted me to somehow serve my country or be a part of shaping public policy. But all black people are Democrats, right? And all black people do poorly on standardized tests. These are facts, folks. You cannot kick against the goads. That's just the way it is.

It turns out maybe not. So I had to leave. I had to leave the Democrat Party. Came under conviction. I mean, really came. So what state were you in at that time? Massachusetts. So you're in Massachusetts, and this is the 80s.

And this is the 80s. I just want to have a confession. I voted for Jesse Jackson in the Democratic primaries. I was a Democrat. I voted for Dukakis even after I had become a Christian. But then eventually I began to understand, you know, I don't think this is going to work. I think that that party no longer represents the values that I thought it did. But it's interesting that you were, you know, that you saw this at the time and you moved away. way and were you involved politically? I had gotten, in fact, I had been appointed to the Massachusetts Democratic State Committee. So I was one of that top, maybe 100 people who were fairly influential, because when I got out of law school, I got some fairly important positions, and it kind of brought me into the center of the action, so to speak, politically. But it became apparent to me very, very quickly. Again, just as a matter of Christian conscience that I couldn't be a part of this. That there's something wrong here.

And you know, the interesting thing is when I saw how they were in violation of Christian principle, then I began to see, you know, they were in violation of a lot of stuff that didn't make sense. Economically, the role of government, taxes, there were a lot of things that they were off on. But what began was abortion and their views of homosexuality and trying to normalize it and regularize it, that I realized I couldn't be a part of. of that. So I had to leave. And it wasn't easy because I figured I was going to get some harsh reactions from people I knew. Oh, this is no question because, you know, I cannot think, you know, when we're talking about the early 80s, I guess, is this the early 80s when you

made this? Yes. Yes. I'm trying to think of who were prominent black conservatives. You know, it was pretty lonely for you at that time, right? That's right. There weren't very many. Right. And in Massachusetts, I mean, it was slim pickings. Yes. So, yeah, you were really very brave to do this. This is a big deal.

Well, you know, I've always said this. I don't owe my first loyalty to a race. I don't even owe my first loyalty to my wife and children whom I love with my whole heart. I owe my first loyalty to Jesus Christ. He's the one who bought my life. He's the one who saved me from hell and damnation. And I've got to obey him and follow him. And so as hard as it was, I was particularly concerned about how my father would react, a Roosevelt Democrat.

But, you know, as always, my father said to me, said, son, it's a different world. Well, it's so funny because my in-laws, Suzanne's parents, were the classic FDR Democrats. And it's kind of funny because you want to say, yeah, well, if FDR was the Democratic Party, I could see how you might go for that. But things have changed. JFK is no longer the Democratic Party Daniel Patrick Moynihan is no longer the Democratic Party Jimmy Carter is no longer Democratic Party we are in a world so far removed

from the best of the Democratic Party that you just got to get real you know what are you going to do pretend it's not true and it's gotten worse dramatically dramatically yeah it's gone dramatically worse so so you have been How long have you been hosting your radio show?

I've been doing the radio show now for, I think, about seven years or so. Right. And you are on American Family Radio? American Family Radio. AFR.net. So you're a little bit like me in that you do a number of different things. So you've got your radio program, you're writing books. You are, do you pastor a church these days?

I do pastor a church? That's what I thought. In Chesapeake, Virginia, yes. Yeah. And what's the name of that church? It's called the called church out of Romans 828. The called. The called according to his purpose.

Well, so let's talk about the book Sweet Land of Liberty. Can I make one quick? Anything you want to say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To show you how bad it was, my wife and I were planning the dedication of our youngest daughter. And we had two friends who we thought were going to be the godparents who we thought loved us and it was going to be great. And this was in the 80s. This was in the 80s.

they found out that I'd left the Democrat Party and withdrew as godparents. Yeah. Said they did not want to be godparents to people who weren't Democrats. Right. I mean, so that's how strong whole, a strong cult-like whole this stuff has on people. So you said it wasn't a very popular move. Yeah. It wasn't.

It cost me something. Yeah. Well, these things will cost those things. I've tasted that in the last few years. And you know what? It's like what you said. I have to do what I think God wants me to do to the best of my ability. Maybe I make mistakes, but I have to try.

Well, so the book Sweet Land of Liberty, Reflections of a Patriot Descended from Slaves, you talk about things like American exceptionalism, all the kind of stuff that many people are talking about these days. And so let's talk about that. You love this country. Now, I think everybody should be patriotic. I don't care where you're from. You have a pride in, you know, and that's the good side of pride, right?

I'm proud to be this or proud to be that. Even with all the flaws and whatever, there's something, there is something good there. Yes. Because everybody's creating God's image and every culture has reflections of God's image. And some, you know, go way in the wrong direction. But when we're talking about America, we are talking undeniably about a unique experiment in liberty in history. There's no way around it. There's never been anything like it.

And look, I'm opposed to illegal immigration. I think people ought to come the proper way. But to me, one of the great testaments to what this country has to offer is the fact that our borders are flooded with people who will do almost anything to get here. Because they understand that this is a unique place. It is, and by the way, we don't have anybody at the border trying to get out. We don't have a bunch of people lining up saying, I'm getting out of this terribly racist, white supremacist nation. In fact, we often hear these criticisms from people who have done exceedingly well.

Well, for them it's guilt. They're so lost that they've done very, very well and they feel guilty and they have to kind of virtue signal. But, you know, they think they're identifying with the oppressed. And, you know, look, I remember buying that line myself. when I was at Yale, just buying that and not understanding how it was an error. But it's so we want to have mercy on some of these mistaken folks. But we've got to set the record straight.

We've got to be clear. What you said, I mean, I remember when 1971, when I visited East Germany, where my mother's relatives all live, we visited there. And I remember seeing the barbed wire, this is all in my book, Fish Out of Water, which I'm going to give you a copy of, but seeing the barbed wire and the guards, whatever. and I realized at age, I wasn't even eight, they're trying to keep people from leaving their country, their prisoners in their country, which is the exact opposite of what we have in the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, these things are true.

We'll be right back talking to E.W. Jackson, Sweet Land of Liberty is the book. Tell me why Relief Factor is so strong. successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated relief factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation

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including the My Pillo 2.0 mattress topper and my pillow towel sets. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Take advantage of this amazing offer. Go to MyPillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use promo code Eric at checkout. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Call 800-978-3057 or go to MyPillow.com now and use promo code Eric. Folks, welcome back. We're talking to E.W. Jackson. The book is Sweet Land of Liberty,

reflections of a patriot descended from slaves. It is important that Americans understand what you say in this book, Bishop Jackson, because there's so many lies and confusing ways of perceiving things. And we have to help those who might be persuaded of the truth to see. the truth. Not everyone will be. Some people are just locked in, their heels are dug in, and they've, they bought a narrative and they don't care. But there are people, I think, looking around, you know, especially people of color. They've been fed this line. And you look around, you go, I'm seeing evidence to the contrary. Maybe I'm missing something. But the indoctrination, the propaganda is so strong that you can understand why people are believing these things. I am particularly concerned that Christians, people who profess the name of Jesus Christ, buy into this stuff.

Because it is anti-Christ, really. It is counter to everything that God has taught us. I mean, for example, Black Lives Matter. People say, well, you know, this is a great thing because black lives do matter. Well, that's true. But, of course, in God's economy, all lives matter. But then when you look behind the scenes and you see that Black Lives Matter is a Marxist organization that denounces is the nuclear family, the traditional family that God created, that wants to try to pretend

that the sum total of problems of the black community is police brutality. When you've got almost 10,000 black people being murdered in the inner cities of our country, usually by other black people, and when they say, well, that happens in every community. Not at that level. It doesn't. It's almost genocidal. And so when you start looking at this through the lens of Jesus Christ and his work, you realize, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, what is the truth about the matter? And the truth

about the matter is that there are some internal problems that have nothing to do with race that have got to be addressed. And the only way, in my view, you can address those is through reference to Jesus. He's the answer, because what people really need is a change of heart. It's interesting, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, when he was a senator from New York, liberal, but a man of intellectual integrity. And in 1916, he put out his report on the black family, that the problems that we're seeing the black community stem from the breakdown of the black family.

And he was told, effectively, shut up. We're not interested in those facts. We've got other facts. And since then, everything he said, a well-meaning liberal New York senator has been dismissed. And we have seen the problems grow and grow and grow until you're talking to, you know, where we are in inner cities like Chicago right now, which is absolute meltdown. And the Democratic Party just refuses to deal with this. They will not deal with this.

I mean, I've spoken to so many people that have, you know, there are answers to this. But there's certain people that are like, I'm not interested. that Lori Lightfoot was not interested in those answers. You know, I run an organization called Stan, staying true to America's National Destiny. Stand. Stand, staying true to America's national destiny. Our biggest project right now, something we call the Forgotten Children Project,

because since 2020, Eric, 342 children have been innocent children. I'm not talking about gangbangers out in the streets. Kids murdered in their beds, murdered riding their bikes, murdered in their cars, in the back of the car, because somebody decided they're going to have a shootout and they didn't care who got killed and innocent children are dying. Far more than any number of black people in bad interactions with the police who end up seriously injured or hurt. And Black Lives Matter and the so-called civil rights establishment have nothing to say about it.

These are innocent kids who've done nothing to anybody. George Floyd, what happened to him was wrong. But George Floyd was also engaged in some pretty bad behavior that made it inevitable. He was going to have a clash with cops. These are innocent kids and nobody even wants to talk about it. So, yeah, somebody has got to bring us back to the fact, to truth and moral, judgment, and family. Because, again, you're right. The kids who are committing these murders, for the most part, they're being raised in single-parent,

female-headed households, often by mothers who were 14-13. 15, 16, when they had them. Well, and again, this gets to the lies that are out there. There is just no doubt that a father and a mother, that's like the first line of defense against chaos in your life. That's the first line of defense, the family. But we're seeing cultural Marxist forces taking over the culture. The government, mostly in the Democratic Party, but many in the Republican Party, have opened the door. to this madness. And this madness is destroying lives. And I say, and you say, it is the role of the

church to step up and to say, excuse me, we see what is happening. Human beings are having their lives destroyed. We don't want that to happen. We want solutions. We want to step up. But there are many, like you said, in the church, and evangelical churches around the country, that are woke, most of it is white guilt, confusion, whatever the heck it is. is they are being silent in the face of evil. They refuse to say what you are saying. So to me, we're going to go to a break here, but to me, what it really says is that at the end of the day,

they don't care. They came more about people looking at them and thinking, oh, they're virtuous, they're on the side of the, but they don't care about the, is the actual problem being solved? And this is churches across this country are being silent in the face of evil. That's why we're talking to E.W. Jackson, the book is Sweet Land of Liberty. Get a copy. Sweet Land of Liberty. We'll be right back.

Big bright, shiny yellow sun. Back. I am talking to E.W. Jackson. The book is Sweet Land of Liberty. It's a joy, Bishop Jackson, to have you with us on the program. I want people to know you're not just the author of Sweetland of Liberty, but they can find you at standamerica.us. standamerica.us. You're just one of those voices, and for me it's a privilege to have this program because I get to introduce my audience to people like you. They may not know anything about you, but you are one of those voices that needs to be put forward, and I'm glad you've written a book that people can get, Sweet Land of Liberty.

We've been talking about the role of the church. and how so many in churches, they don't understand that God has called them to stand up for all these things. And part of that is standing up for the founder's vision of America, which is a biblical view. Now people say, they were slave owners. Yeah, we know that that was wrong. We know that that was wrong. We don't know what's wrong in your life, but I'm sure there's something wrong in your life. But, you know, you can get some stuff very wrong and be right about other stuff.

So the founder's vision, which led, of course, to the abolition of slavery, which led ultimately to a country where we abolish the Jim Crow laws and where we have equal opportunity and people like you can go to, oh, I don't know, Harvard Law School. There are people that they bought this other narrative. They just don't want to hear about that. If America is an evil, degenerate, corrupt nation, that that's who we are, than the scripture is alive when it says righteousness exalts a nation and sin is a reproach to any people because we've become the 4.25% of the population of the world, we become the wealthiest, most powerful,

most successful, most productive, most creative, most innovative, most innovative, most innovative nation, most charitable nation. You can't do that and be doing everything wrong. You must be doing something right. And we need to be celebrating what we're doing right. I mean, one of the things that I'm trying to get people to see is that if you understand that God really, you said it earlier, and when we were talking, you said America came out of the heart of God, that America gave us God. If you understand that, then sure, we're not perfect. We know that. We as Christians aren't perfect, but we keep striving toward a more perfect union and striving to make the country a better place. And Marxism, socialism, secularism, atheism,

all the sexual perversion that we're being sold now as normative, as appropriate, as good even to children. That's not the way to go to continue the success. Well, I've got to tell you, you know, when they started shoving Pride Month down our throats like a year or so ago,

I just thought, you've got to be kidding me. Pride Month is a joke. It is Kwanza times 30. That's exactly what it is. It's like we're going to create this thing and we're going to shove it in your face. And if you don't agree, oh, you're a bad person, you're a big it. I don't think so. It's a joke.

But we have cultural forces pushing this stuff on our children. If the church does not stand against this, if patriots don't stand against this, if families don't stand against this because they're afraid somebody's going to call you names, well, then you're participating in the evil itself. We have to stand against this. And that's why I love you. because you're one of these voices. You've been standing against this stuff for a long time, and we don't stand against it out of hate. We stand against it in love.

If you don't think so, that's on you, because we answer to God. But all of this stuff is happening in our lifetime. And ultimately, I'm hopeful because I think things have gotten so bad that a lot of people are waking up who would ordinarily still be sleeping, but they're thinking, wait a minute, things are going insane.

Bud Light has a transgender person would stubble on his face as the voice. Like the lunacy has just exploded and people are thinking, you know what? I think it might be time to, you know, stand up. And Disney has a guy bringing children into the, I think it's called the Bobbidi Bibbidi place where you can buy all kinds of Disney stuff. Yeah. He's dressed in a woman's outfit with a great big old mustache as thick as mine. With a nasty stash, ladies and gentlemen.

No, but I mean, this is why if you ever spend a dime at Disney on an Anheiser-Bush product, ever at Target, folks, you've got to be out of your mind. If you do not send a message to these lunatics that are trying to destroy everything that holds us up as a nation and our family, If you don't stand up to them, you are part of the problem. I'm sorry to say this, folks, but this is very, we're at a serious moment right now. I spoke to a group of students who were graduating from a Christian school in Mechanicsville on Saturday, and I said to them, you've got to stop. And I think every Christian should do this.

Eric, clearly you have. I mean, I've read some of your books and you're a historian. Place yourself in the context of your times. why are you here now? I mean, why didn't God choose you for the 19th century, the 18th century? No, you're here, and you've got a unique role to play. And I think Christians, oh, my goodness, the importance of Christians at a moment like this, you just can't overstate it.

And if we're silent, if we don't stand up, if we allow cowardice to get the best of us and just, well, I don't want to offend anybody. I don't want people mad at me. You're going to end up. We have our first granddaughter. She's 14 months old. what in the world is this country going to look like when she's 20? I can't imagine.

Well, God will hold us responsible. This is the bad news, folks. God will hold you responsible for what you do and you don't do, what you say, and what you don't say. And, you know, one of the last pages of scripture, one of the last verses is about who will be cast in the lake of fire, the cowardly. Whoa. In other words, if you do not live with courage, God will be able to be. judge that. That's not like an extra credit Christian thing. That's basic

Christianity. Courage. Do you really believe these things? If you really believe these things, you will live them out with courage. And that's why, you know, you have a voice that people need to know you. And again, I want to tell people before we go to our final break,

the book, folks, it's Sweet Land of Liberty. Sweet Land of Liberty by E.W. Jackson, Reflections of a Patriot Descented from Slaves. The website stand America.us Standamerica.us. I want to exhort you to go to

my website, Eric Mataxis.com. Please sign up for my newsletter. We will send you the video of this conversation and you can share it with all your friends. That's important stuff. Ericmetaxis.com. We'll be right back. Welcome back.

A few minutes left with E.W. Jackson. Sweet Land of Liberty is the book. Sweet Land of Liberty, just a beautiful, hopeful title. Standamerica.us is where people can find you. So you sound like a very busy man. What are you doing generally? Well, look, to tell you the truth, I am now in my 70s. I am dedicated for the rest of my life to helping save this country. because I really believe that America is on the precipice, and we could end up with something unlike anything we even imagine could happen. And what I mean by that is a kind of totalitarian country. Oh, yeah.

And you see the signs of it already. Oh, no, it is happening. And unless we stand against it and understand we are in a war, unless we fight against this in every way we can, it's going to happen. Listen, this has cracks me up, too, because you're black. I mean, I was on a panel about Christian national. at the NRB recently. And when people talk about white nationalism,

I just laugh. I think to myself, are you out of your mind? That's like being in Nazi Germany and saying, you've got to worry about those Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks, they're going to take over. It's like, no, no, no. I think the problem is with the national socialist,

not with the Bolsheviks. So when people talk about, you know, white nationalism or Christian nationalism, I think, are you out of your mind? We're dealing with atheist globalism. They do not believe in any of the founding values. They don't believe in liberty. They want to crush you.

They want to destroy the family. They want to destroy this nation. They want to destroy our borders. And we have people drugged up enough that they do not seem to comprehend what we're facing. And I find that sad because we just had Memorial Day not too long ago. We remember D-Day. This is the country that stopped Nazism. This is the country that at least put the brakes on communism.

We got China breathing down our necks now. but for people to say those things, I really do find it highly offensive because what they're really trying to do is marginalize us and discredit us and say, oh, these people are just like the Nazis. And they don't know. We hate all forms of totalitarianism and oppression of people and robbing people of their rights. But you can't have a free nation without God. That's the thing that they don't understand. Let me make one other quick point to because it comes to your book on Dietrich Bonhofer. You know, I tell Christians all the time, you don't want to offend people. You ought to be willing to give you a life for Christ, let alone offending. And God may not call you to do that, but he calls every Christian to be willing.

So if you can't even speak to somebody because you're afraid they might get offended by me being a Christian, my goodness, how in the world are you ever going to lay your life down for him, which is what he calls us to be willing to do? And of course, he calls us to die to. self. Yes. So whether you die, you know, by being killed or you die to self, we're called to die to self. And Bonhofer said, you know, when Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die. When you die to self, you're not worried about offending people. You're not worried of people looking at you funny. You're worried about what is God think and what did he create me for. We've got less than a

minute left. Just any final thoughts, E.W. Jackson. Well, one, one of the quotes in my book, It's not the skin. It's the sin. And we focus on complexion and all of that when the real problem of human beings is estrangement from God. And the only antidote for that is the blood of Jesus Christ shed for our sins. Well, you couldn't have wrapped it up better. That is a fact. And I think we have to understand that this nation could not exist and freedom could not exist without faith.

but we have a government that cannot enforce faith. And so we have to encourage it. We're not putting it in our laws. Everybody has to go to church and have a quiet time. No, it is free and it is beautiful. It is liberty. The book is Sweet Land of Liberty. Reflections of a patriot descended from slaves.

Sweet Land of Liberty. I've been talking to the author, Bishop E.W. Jackson, thank you so much. Thank you.