The Eric Metaxas Show - Fr. Robert Sirico

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

Fr. Robert Sirico, has written a book that outlines the "timeless and moral economic wisdom for life's choices," and is in the studio to discuss, "The Economics of the Parables." 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Taxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. I, uh, I'm excited because I get to talk to someone that I genuinely like. Most people I only pretend to like. Secretly, I don't like them at all, but I pretend. You know what I mean? It's all an active show business. fake. But today I have someone on that I really like, and I find him fun to talk to. His name is

Father Robert Serico. Yes, a Catholic priest in the studio to talk about economics because Father Sirico is or was the head of the Acton Institute. Now he claims to have retired. I don't believe it. Father Serico, welcome. Good to be with you. Now, I want to talk about this, because we're going to talk about you have a new book out called the economics of the parables. So Jesus' parables and economics. Okay. You're big into the free market. You have written a book called Defending the Free Market.

You wrote another book called A Moral Basis for Liberty. I'm kind of big on that. When did you found the Acton Institute? And what is the Acton Institute? So the Acton Institute was founded in 1990 with my friend and colleague, the co-founder, Chris Mowran, who is now the successor president, so it's a good succession. And what basically, as I saw in seminary, as you've seen in religious circles, that religious people have a soft place for socialism.

And I think that comes from a lack of understanding of the importance of liberty in creating and allowing virtue and in creating wealth, if we're concerned about the poor. And very often their good intentions override sound reasoning. And so we try to resolve that. It's an interfaith institute. So we deal with people from all across the board, evangelicals, Catholics, and everything else. Well, I can't remember. Do you know Oz Guinness?

I don't know if you know Osgreens. Yes, sure. Oz has spoken for us. Oz Guinness introduced me to the idea. He coined the term the golden triangle of liberty. Yes. And I was astonished and sickened. When I discover something that I'd never seen before, I'm just embarrassed.

How is it possible that I got so far in life without understanding this basic idea of how liberty and virtue and faith, how these things work together? And I thought everyone in America needs to understand this. It's absolutely fundamental. And we understood it at the founding. Well, of course. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had a founding. Yeah, exactly. Precisely.

But it is true that Christians, in particular can be a little soft-headed, which is a nice way of saying stupid, and not understanding that socialism ultimately is the enemy of freedom. And we really have to have a biblical view of these things. So you founded the Acton Institute in part to help accomplish that. Yeah. And that is in Michigan. Any reason? Why did you end up in Michigan? You're a New Yorker. I am a New Yorker from Brooklyn, the B train right down there. The B train. I found it because I was assigned to work in Michigan, the order that I was part of at the time.

I've since incarnated, we call it, when you kind of become diocesan priest. We've got all these fancy words. Well, 2,000 years. A very Latin roots are incarnated. 2,000 words you'll incarnated, not incarnated. Right, incarinated. That's right. So you have your authorization there.

And so I've been there for all these years and really have enjoyed it. a lovely big little city. I'm sorry. But you haven't drifted across the Tiber into the Dutch Reformed camp because Michigan is very Dutch reformed. It is. When Chuck Colson came to speak for us,

I think our second anniversary, we had Bill Buckley, and then Chuck Colson. And Colson came and said, I had to come to the Vatican of the Reformed Church to see the audacity of this priest setting up shop in the middle of the city.

Actually, that's very well put. And we became good friends. after that is you know that because we've been together many times. Well, exactly. I've known you over the years and I've spoken at the Acton Institute and I've had various things. I'm not at all surprised you've written a book called The Economics of the Parables, brand new book. Regnery, pretty good publisher. So let's talk about it, the economics of the parables.

First of all, why do Christians? It's really disturbing to see people get muddle-headed when, when it comes to really important things like this. But you find this, I know for sure in the Catholic tradition and in the evangelical tradition, you get a lot of people that are very sloppy and open the door to socialistic ideas, as though that's a good thing.

Obviously, they think that they have a soft heart, but they don't understand that it just doesn't work. Well, I think the best of them are just confused. And they don't think deeply about it. We live in a prosperous society, so we won't have to think deeply about where all this came from. But this is the exceptional moment in all of human history. The wealth that the world has now has never, ever been seen before.

In fact, before 200 years ago, everybody lived at roughly the same economic standards. But isn't that the point? In other words, we are so spoiled by the blessings that have been given to us by the free market that most people today think this is normal. And some of the economists point to that. They say, this could be a danger. to the free market. And I think that's part of the reason. I think another confusion is that people think that if you are sharing, that's somehow that's socialism. I mean, socialism, you know.

Well, but if you're sharing privately, that's a good thing. But if you're forced to share because of big government demanding that you share, that's no longer. You're a man who loves a good quotation. Winston Churchill, 1908. He said, the socialists of the Christian era said everything that I have is yours. The socialists of today say everything that you have is mine. And that's the difference. It's taking and giving. There's a moral, a qualitative moral difference between sharing what you have and having it confiscated from you. You're not morally ennobled by the fact that somebody takes your wealth from you, even if they do good work with it. But you are, if you share it.

your wealth. So why a book on the economics of the parables? You've written on, you wrote a book called Defending the Free Market. Why the parables specifically? Well, like every preacher that we know, the parables are a part of our whole portfolio. I've been meditating them on all my life on them. And what I want to say right at the outset, though, and this is very important, I am not saying that Jesus is teaching economics. That's not my point. That would be isogeeting rather than exegeting. What I am saying is that it's wondrous to see the assumptions that Jesus is utilizing with regard to private property, wealth, differing wage scales, competition, legacy, and contract. All of these things he's talking about in very normal natural terms. And that's what I'm trying to highlight. I'm trying to extract from the parable.

the assumptions that you see in the teaching of Jesus through these wonderful stories. Sometimes it's hard not to be amazed, astonished, that the one who was God, who died for our sins, I mean, that he would speak about these mundane things, that he would talk about wages and things. It's hard for me to get my head around that. You know, I can theoretically accept the incarnation.

It's like theory. But then when you actually see him talking like... The incarnation is anything but theory. It's the word became flesh. Of course Jesus is going to use the real world to teach us about heaven because that's what he came to do. He was in flesh. He was born in time and a place.

It follows logically. I'm just saying that it's still, when you get to that part of it, then it becomes real. Then you realize it's not just, oh, yes, he became man. No, he was one who you could touch and hear and smell and taste and see. I have a book coming out in the fall called Letter to the American Church, principally addressed to the evangelical church, although really to anybody. But in it, I have a chapter on the parable of the talents, which I find just extraordinary. It's just an extraordinary.

Do you write about that in here? Let's talk about that because it's an amazing, it's really amazing. Everything he says is amazing, but let's talk about that. One of the things that's interesting about the parable of the talents is that the word talent is we use it today, a gift that a person has, comes from that. It was an economic unit in the ancient world. That's what a talent is. We're going to a break. I love learning about words.

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That's inspireinsight.com. Go there. Welcome back. I continue my conversation with Father Robert Serico. Catholic priest, former head of the Acton Institute. You're now, what, emeritus? Emeritus, yeah, but I'm still working with the Institute. I just don't have to attend every finance meeting.

Okay, that's positive. It is. Let me loose. The book is the economics of the parables. You just as we went to the break told me in my audience something, which I don't think I knew this, or maybe I heard it once and I forgot, but that the parable of the talents, the talents in the ancient world were coins. An economic unit.

An economic unit. And now... So we use that term talent as a gift that we have. Because in that parable, of course, you remember. And I use the one from Matthew. There are two versions of it. But I thought the one from Matthew is a little more straightforward, simpler to, you know, expound on.

There are three servants. One is given five talents. One is given two and one is given one. And he goes away. And what it says at the beginning, I think it's a very key but subtle. thing. He says he gives each according to his ability.

So the capacity of these guys is not what's in question. You can't say oh well the other guy just didn't you know, no. It was something moral. It wasn't something intellectual or something to do with experience. The failure of the one who doesn't reproduce his talents is moral and we see it at the end. Oh, there's no question. Yeah.

And it's it's, but it's so fascinating because like anything that Jesus says, it's so deep that it's almost frightening. You realize this is God speaking. I mean, to come up with something like this. It's deep, but it's simple. This is the thing. It's like it's incredible. You think that you're just going to wade in a puddle and you find yourself in the ocean.

And it just keeps giving. I mean, I have, as I say, preached on these parables for many, many years. And one of the blessings for me of COVID was that I finally put this whole thing together and really was able to meditate in quiet on these things. And I kept finding things that just had escaped my notice previously. So this one who doesn't do anything with the talent is, is I think, the key to understanding a lot of the parable. Okay. So just to reiterate, if you don't mind, what the parable is so people can track. He entrusts these three servants with his.

his money, three, two, and one. And he says, now I'm going away when I come back, do something with this. And he comes back after a period of time. And the one with five gives him five more. He says, well done, now good and faithful servant. Come over here. And one with two, comes up with two more. And the one with one. Now, what's interesting is he hands the one back. He doesn't lose the money. He hands the one back. He said, and here's where we get the. understanding of it. He says, I knew that you were a hard man. So already we see he doesn't know who the master is. He doesn't know who he's talking about. He dislikes the master. He doesn't love the master. He doesn't love. He doesn't trust the master. Right. And he sees the master as

essentially a manipulative exploiter. Why do I say that? Because the next thing he says is, I knew that you gather where you have not scattered and reap where you have not sown. Now, let me tell you, when I read that with my economic hat on, I immediately heard the accusation of Marx against the free economy. Absolutely. That the production of wealth is intrinsically evil and exploitative, and that's why we need to denounce the free economy. And this is this man's attitude in the mouth of Jesus telling the story

toward the master, the generous, benevolent, trusting master. The other thing that he says right at the beginning is I was afraid. And I think that is the thing that hinders people from entering commerce, entering business. You know, it takes risk to produce wealth. If it didn't, we'd all be rich. It's not an easy thing to do. So you might lose in a moral economy. You know, the other thing I think would be very intriguing is if we took that,

and I kind of do these meditative things with the parables especially. What if we turn them around and switch some things up? Like in this one, I would say, what if the master came back and they had all lost the wealth? They tried, they invested, but things beyond their control, what would the master's attitude have been in that circumstance? I think it would be, now, there's no definitive answer. Well, I mean, but I think we can guess based on what is presented.

Basically, I've talked about this a lot when I bring up Bonhoeffer, right? Because I say that Bonhofer, he did the thing that, in other words, if you believe the Lord loves us, then even when we make mistakes, he gives us grace. He says, I saw what you tried to do based on your love of me. You tried to do this thing. Maybe you got it wrong. But I see that you did it out of love for me. In the case of those who are playing it safe, like the servant who buries the talent, he's basically saying to the master, I don't love you, I don't trust you. I don't trust you.

I'm afraid you're going to punish me if I do anything wrong. So I will do nothing. I will do nothing. I'll bury it. You gave me one talent. Here's your talent back. Leave me alone. Exactly.

And a lot of people have that misunderstanding. in terms of who God is. They're sort of like, I don't want to get in trouble. God's ready to whack me. So I'm just going to keep my nose clean, not taking any risks. And you realize you've completely missed God. Instead of seeing how much he is invested in you, you know, I think, what is it? Peter says in one of the epistles that we have been purchased and with so great a price.

In a very mystical sense, it cost God something. in theology we call the incarnation the great condescension of God. And so if we have that perspective, I'll give your talent a shot. Well, I was going to say that, so what's interesting to me is if you love the master, just like if you love God, you will try things to bless him. Like a kid, he says, I want to bless my dad, I'm going to do this crazy thing. And even if you fall in your face, your loving father is going to say, look what my son tried to do. I love him.

It's not whether he won or lost. It's like, look at his heart. Exactly. And the talent that is buried, it's this, I see it as a kind of a pinched religious in the negative sense, phariseical view. That God is scary. He's not my friend. And I just want to keep out of his way. And is cheap with his grace.

Yeah. the attitude. And you see that also in the prodigal son, don't you? You see the older son having exactly that attitude toward the forgiveness the father generously shows who's younger son, which is also a contract dispute. It's an inheritance dispute, really, the prodigal son. That's another one of the parables that I did. So how many parables do you write about? I did 13. I could have done more. You know, some commentators say there are 200 parables in the Gospels. I can't see that. I think they would be wrong, but we'll let it go. They're not here to defend themselves. But this is

13 of them, and I could put three or four more in there, I think. Well, what other ones shall we exeat? Do you want to do the prodigal son? Do you want to do... Sure. Let's do the prodigal son. Okay, so this is the story, of course, of the young

man who asks for his inheritance, which was not undone. People say, well, how do you ask for inheritance before the man dies? Your father dies. This was done. the ancient world. There were provisions for this. The elder son always got more than half of the estate because he was expected to maintain the home and if there was a mother or the other siblings and things like that. So the prodigal gets the inheritance, goes off, squanders it,

and then comes back. And the commentators say, and I think this is very true, the more I became familiar with this, the name of the story should be the loving father, not the prodigal son, because it's really all about the father. In the first case, it's the father's relationship with the son who has run off and scattered the money. But then at the end, even though shorter is nonetheless, every bit as intense, is his attitude toward his older son. The younger son is away from the father. the older son at the end of the story ends up away from the father. He's outside the house. Now, we don't know how it ends.

This is another one of the beauties. And I think the thing that gives the parables there durability is we really don't know what happens with this older son. Because the father, we see him beckoning him in. But the younger son, the older son, is resentful of the younger one having squandered the money and resentful that the father never. gave him even a calf to celebrate with his friends. Meanwhile,

the father says, but you've always been here. Everything I have is yours. What are you talking about? A misperception of the father. And we don't know if he is going to go back in and be reconciled to the father. It's very sad. It's so, it's just

so, again, I can't help be astonished by the depth of these parables. And you kind of have to wonder, you know, How did Jesus come up with these? Because they are just, every one of them is eternal. They're just these heavenly, glorious stories that give and give and given, you can just, you know. But there are things that are happening right in front of his eyes.

And in front of the eyes of all the people are listening to him. It's not stuff that you have to. They're very simple. But nobody else is coming up with anything quite like this. That's, you know. Okay. We'll be right back talking to Father Robert Serico about his. book, The Economics of the Parables. We'll be right back.

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gold. They can help you roll your retirement account into a gold-backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metals safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866 5281903 or visit them online at legacy pminvestments.com. I'm talking to Father Robert Serico, Emeritus, president. Is that what it's called? President Emeritus of the Acton Institute. Okay, so you've written a book called The Economics of the Parables, but at the end of the book, you go beyond the parables?

Yeah, good, maybe a third of the book, deals with economic themes that kind of run through the New Testament. I just kind of began writing it, and it just kept building. Things like, you know, the famous passage, and I'm asked about this very often, didn't Jesus say that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get in the kingdom of heaven? Isn't that a condemnation?

And didn't he say to the rich young ruler, which is what this passage is from? Right. Go and give away everything that you have. Yeah. And what I do is I ask, and if you read this, I ask, what's the first thing that Jesus says to this man? So this young man comes to me. He says, Master, what do I need to be due to say?

Well, keep the law. I've done that. Oh, very good. Okay. You're close. Well, then go and what does he say? The first thing he commands him to do, sell. I was going to say sell.

If I remember correctly, sell. Now, you never hear anybody elaborate on that. Jesus is asking him to engage in commerce. Not to give your stuff away. That comes later. To sell it first. And you presume now if he's going to then give it away, and it doesn't even say give it all away, but let's say he's going to ask him to give it all away, give it all to the poor.

Yeah. The presumption has to be that he wants him to get a good price on it because that's the way he can become a good servant. That's the way he can help the poor by getting a good price on his commerce. And if he had a lot, it probably would have taken him in a little while to have sold it. I mean, this is the whole lesson here. Right. Selling, buying and selling commerce is not sinful. Jesus is using as an example, the pearl of great prices, another one of the parables.

You exchange something of a lesser value or something of a greater value. And this is what Jesus is telling him. And then you come to the point where it says, when the rich young ruler says, he goes away sad because he had. many possessions. And Jesus said, how sad it is. You know, by the way, when Jesus calls him, he uses the same words as the call of Matthew, and the call of Peter and Andrew. Come, follow me. We might have had a 13th apostle. Who knows? But he doesn't. And he's very sad. And that gives the occasion for that great metaphor. It is harder for a camel to, harder for a rich man tend to the kingdom of him than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, which by the way, please tell

every preacher that you hear who says, well, there is in the wall in Jerusalem a little, you know the story, a little entrance way that can be opened at night and you have to unload your camel to get it and that's the eye of the needle. That was built in like the 17th. 17th century. So it couldn't be what Jesus was referring to. Wow. You know, Jesus is using the rabbinic device of hyperbole. This is so impossible that, you know, it is a difficult thing. So how do we understand that? In other words, it does seem to suggest, it certainly suggests,

that there is something bad about what? wealth. In other words, it seems to suggest that. So how do we process that? Well, what it suggests is that anything that hinders you from following Christ is deadly. Anything. And we see this in the next passage because Jesus, the disciples, we act like this. Well, then who can get into heaven? And what is Jesus say? With God, all things are possible. That's right. With man, it is impossible. That is economic exchange or anything like it that is temporal is not what you need to get into heaven. You cannot buy a ticket into heaven. That it's his grace.

I mean, that's a separate issue, though, isn't it? I don't have the text in front of me now, but it's right there. It's that, it's that, but the idea is that wealth is dangerous to our souls. freedom is dangerous. Sex is dangerous. So everything that God created can be turned into an idol. Exactly. And wealth is...

Or it can be sacramental. I mean, in marriage, the passion, the erotic passion of marriage, which is the consuming act. That's the act that establishes in my theology, the sacrament of marriage, is sanctified by its orientation to God. Right. Why wouldn't wealth do the same thing? And other passages in the Gospels, we see that Jesus, we never think of Jesus as having wealthy friends. We always think of him in association with the poor. But who do you think Joseph of Arimathea was?

Do you know, and here's a shocking thought. This is going to flip some people out. In effect, Jesus went to the cross wearing a civil rose suit. Okay, what he was wearing, which was a garment, a seamless, garment. That would have been the equivalent today of a Seville Roos suit. It'd be like the guards at an execution saying, and let's not execute him. Let's not put bullets in that suit. Let's take the suit off and keep it, because that's really a fine suit. I don't remember. Does it imply where he gets it from? I can't remember. It doesn't say one, one could presume that it was Joseph

Aramathia because Joseph Aramethia is associated with another rather expensive gift, the tomb. the new tomb. And then you have Mary Magdalene, who anoints Jesus' feet with this aromatic nard where, who was the one who complained about it then, you remember? I think it was Judas. It was. It was scary it. That Judas. That Judas. All right. We wanted to go out on a positive note. We failed. We'll be right back talking to Father Robert Serico. The book is The Economics of the Parables. News, crazy days and reckless nights, limousines and bright spotlights. We were brothers through it all.

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Made with quality leather swayed. Call 1-800-978-3057. Use the promo code Eric or go to mypillow.com. Click on the radio listeners square and use promo code Eric. The offer will not last long, so order now with promo code Eric at Mypillow.com or call 800-978-378-3057. 800-978 3057. We're talking to the author of the economics of the parables. Those are the parables of Jesus. Father Robert Serico.

We live in a world, and you know this, the Catholic Church is guilty of this. are guilty of this. They misunderstand what the scripture says, and they take this kind of sloppy theological view that wealth is bad. Ultimately, that view, it's like a Gnostic view, it's a platonic dualistic view. It's not a biblical view. The biblical view says that everything can be good if we give it to God and use it for his purposes. He's the creator. He pronounced it good in the book of Genesis. Everything, oh, the material, world is good. The material world becomes the occasion for God. Look how seriously God takes the material world in the creation, in the details of the building of the temple and the building of

the Ark of the Covenant. And right on through to the incarnation, which is the re-ratification of the intention at the creation. If you need some evidence that God likes this world, he became a human being. I mean, it is. And then the bread and wine at communion. Now we have different theologies on communion, but nonetheless, look at this. Jesus didn't choose grapes and grain. He chose bread and wine. What's the difference? Bread and wine is undergone human work. Human work has great dignity. And it's not just the nature that is sanctifying. I've never heard of that. It's human labor. And God did not put man and woman in a jungle. he put them in a garden, which means work.

It means tending the garden, making it productive, manipulating it, if you will, that is working with your hands. So the world is very important to go. What did Kuyper say about the world? Every square inch. I remember Chuck Kohlson knows you to quote that. And now I am quoting it constantly. It's a point that needs to be made, particularly now. So, yeah, Abraham Kuiper, the Dutch statesman and theologians said that,

There's not one square inch of all creation over which Jesus Christ, who is sovereign, does not say mine. It all is his. So this idea that we carve out our little religious corner, no, no, no, no, no, that's heresy. This is what weakens the church. And this is what weakens the church's witness in the world. And it wasn't always this way. I mean, historically, we had artists. We had musicians.

We had people who created great beauty. Now all of that has slidding over to Hollywood. And it's the antithesis. And we see the result of this impact. We need men and women who are going to take this world so seriously that they're going to apply their talents and understand that their piety is not a substitute for the technique of their business. I stole that quote from Aetien-Gil-San, a philosopher. And if we could do that. Is that how it's pronounced?

I've only read it. Aetian-Gil-Song? Yeah. Well, it's funny you say this just because when, you know, you watch, let's say, quote unquote, Christian films or this or that. And you think, listen, God is not happy when we produce junk and label it Christian. He expects us to create something glorious that reflects his genius and majesty and beauty and so on and so forth. But it is interesting the way we have, I mean, look, it's the endless temptation, right, to to carve out, it's kind of a reductionist worldview that you say that this little piece here is,

this religious piece belongs to God. And God says, no, no, no, I want you to take me into every part of the world, into the world of economics, into the world of art, into the world. But it's kind of funny how we have to continue correcting this error. We want to decorate things with the accoutrements of Christianity. Another philosopher, theologians said, we don't want to Christianize our business. You know, people want to put tracks and signs and stuff by Bible verses. I'm not against all of that. He said, we don't want to Christianize. We want to Christo finalize. That is, we want to bring the very logic of the business to its fulfillment in Jesus Christ, that all good work reflects God's glory. And we need to take our

businesses that seriously because it's an act of our worship. I somehow see, that idea happening a little bit. It's beginning to. I don't know why, but it seems to me that sometimes things have to get very bad for people to recognize, I need to get serious. I need to take my faith into politics. I'm going to run for something. I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do that because you start realizing that when you don't do that, you know, the tears take over. Yes, but just to use the political as an example, the object isn't that you become an evangelist as a politician. Right. But that you understand the art of politics so well that you craft policies that reflect the glory of God and the dignity of the human person. I always use the example, of course, since I wrote a book about him, of William Wolverford.

I mean, here's a man whose whole life was politics, and he took his faith into politics, and how many people in that day said to him, keep your faith out of politics, it has no business being in politics? And he said, no, that doesn't, that's not a biblical view. That's not a Christian view. The Christian view is that I'm commanded to take my faith, which is the truth of God, into every sphere. And look what he wrought as a result of it. And nobody today complains, even the progressives, don't complain that the religious, they may forget,

that it was the religious opposition to slavery that made it possible to emancipate people. Well, this is what I find interesting, and I deal with this in my book coming out in the fall, is that you have many people of faith saying, oh, no, no, that's political. You're not supposed to be political. I think, well, where did you get the idea that I'm not supposed to be political? Why are you bullying me from taking an action by labeling it political and assuming that we both agree I'm not supposed to be political?

Where do you get that idea from? It's not a biblical idea. Yeah. No, and it's the opposite, in fact. It's when we politicize our Christianity, not when we Christianize our world. And how do you mean that when we put a sense of Christian? What I mean is when we, what I was describing earlier, well, we think we're doing politics by just simply using it as a tent revival. We have to do the hard work that's involved.

You know, you want to build a church that glorifies God. Well, the first thing you need to do is study geometry. That's Jill's son as well. That's good. Was Jill's son one of those Catholics? You can tell from his name, of course. Of course. Sorry.

But it is, no, it's, listen, it's so beautiful. Hey, I quoted Kuiper. I quoted Kuiper too. Neither am I Dutch. Truth is truth. And it's a beautiful thing. And we need to really help people to think

Christianly, to take our faith into everything. We're talking about that right now. I'm talking to Father Robert Serico. The book is The Economics of the Parables. We'll be right back. Welcome back. I'm talking to Father Robert Serico. What is that Italian?

Certamen. Just kidding. I know that. I know you're a Brooklyn, Italian, Catholic. Now, most people don't know this. And I had, I wanted to throw this in at the end. I was just thrilled when I learned that your brother, the actor, he was Paulie Walnuts in the Supranos. But what would you know about Pauli Walnuts? You're a good Christian boy. I am not a big fan of the Sopranos because it was very dark. No, no, don't, don't get me wrong. A lot of it was genius. But there's certain things I watch. A lot of the films. A lot of the Sopranos. A lot of the Sopranos. A lot of the Sopranos. A lot of the Sopranos. of the films of Scorsese, I watch it. There's genius, whatever, but there's a part of me that says, but it was a moral universe. If you compare the Sopranos to six feet under, you remember six feet? It was on the air at the same time.

I didn't watch that. It wasn't as entertaining. No, but it was dark. Yeah. There was no moral universe. You're right. In the Sopranos, you knew evil was evil. I'm not anti-Sopranos.

I'm not saying that it was certain times. And I'm not in HBO's... But there's certain things that they're hard for me to watch. It's sort of dark. I agree. It's sort of dark. But anyway, your brother played Pauley Walnuts. He did.

So, and was in Goodfellas. Yes. Another one of those films. Goodfellas is like right on the edge for me. Oh. Where it is. Goodfellas, I found disturbing. Well, no.

It was too close to home. But, well, but Goodfell is disturbing. But Casino, which followed 10 years later. Because Scorsese, it's so dark that it's glorifying the darkness. I don't know if he means to do that, but I think he does. Okay. We have to go back to the quest. Why do so many people say wrongly, but they say that, oh, the early Christians were socialists?

What do you say to that? Well, and, you know, this ties in with the poor because what they're referring to is probably the acts of the apostles where everybody had their needs met because they shared everything. First of all, it doesn't say that private property was abolished. In fact, quite the opposite because in the description of how early church shared, Peter himself says to somebody who brings money to Ananias and someone, When you had it, was it not your own? And after you sold it, did not remain your own? And yet you have come and lied by saying that you've given it all. So Peter is affirming private property. This underscores that this was sharing. And it was sharing for those in need. You see that the challenge of Christianity in the face of socialism is to say that socialism is a desiccated form of Christianity. It only deals with one-dimensional. of who the human person is, only their physical existence. But, you know, as Marvin Olasky, I think it was said, that compassion isn't giving to, it's suffering with.

You feed animals, you clothe, you keep animals warm and stuff because they're material things. You have to do something more with human beings. And that's the genius of Christianity, is that it wanted to take the whole person, not just their physical needs, yes, their physical needs. Well, but then that's the fundamental, problem with Marxism, right? It's fundamentally materialistic and atheistic. There's no way around it.

It reduces us to animals. Exactly. Exactly. And this is what's unfortunate. It's like Christians are trying to play catch up with the left when, in fact, the left stole our best lines. You know, in effect, it kind of distort them into this. We're talking about communion. We're not talking about rigid societies. We're talking about not class conflict, but class encounter. As Mother Teresa said, whether rich save the poor and the poor save the rich. It's reciprocal. All right, then we have ended on a positive note. Congratulations on the book. The economics of the parables. I got to go get a Kanish now. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, folks, Eric Matakis here. I'm away from the studio this week, but I wanted to bring you an important announcement. The fight for the unborn, as you know,

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