The Eric Metaxas Show - Franklin Graham and the Benham Brothers

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

Franklin Graham is in the bunker with a report on Samaritan's Purse and their ministry in Central Park; then, the Benham Brothers have an update on David's arrest last week and the state of free speech in America.

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I tell all my relatives to take it. relief factor.com. It's the show you've all been waiting for. Until now, until literally right now. Literally right now. Literally. Now your host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Metaxus show. This is obviously the bunker edition.

I'm not in the glorious TBN studios. I'm here in what I like to call my home office, which has been cleaned up just for you. But I've got a really special guest. In fact, I've got three special guests. guests. First, I get to speak with Reverend Franklin Graham. Then I'm going to speak with my friends, the Benham brothers, they're twins, so there's two of them. I can't explain it. But right now, Pastor Franklin Graham, welcome to this program. Thank you. It's great to be with you. Thank you for having me today. Well, listen, you know how much I love you and how much I love the work you are doing.

I visited the Samaritan's Purse Field Hospital here in Central Park twice. I got to meet your team there, Ken Isaacs and the whole gang. And I have been so moved. I brought my family there on Holy Saturday. What you all are doing, I just want people watching this program to know in case they didn't, that you didn't need to do this. This is God's work in New York City. And as a New Yorker, I'm just thrilled.

Eric, it's just something God has done for him to open up Central Park for us right across the street from Mount Sinai to partner with Mount Sinai. And they've been a tremendous organization for us to partner with. To me, it's just kind of a God thing. And then, of course, so many New Yorkers have been so supportive. People have brought food. People have come by to say, thank you. We've even had one of our patients who passed away. He was very sick when he came to us and he didn't make it.

But the family came to thank our staff for taking care of their loved one. And we've had just that kind of outpouring of gratitude and thanks from just people from all across the city. We get a few naysayers, but that's okay. We're used to that. those are called nattering nabobs of negativism that's a spirou agnew by way of william sapphire um i have to tell you uh franklin i mean you know i love you and i love your family and um on sunday morning just this past easter um we were kind of wondering gee what what should we do on easter you know we're going to attend our own church online but we were thrilled at 10 a.m uh to see you uh and michael w smith right there in

Central Park at the field hospital having a service. I told everyone I knew to tune in. It was just very moving to me. And I'm just, what gave you the idea to do that? It's just a beautiful idea. Well, one of the men that we work with called me, and he just said, frankly, have you thought about doing something from Central Park on Easter Sunday, right there at the field hospital?

And as soon as he said that, I thought, this is the right thing to do. but I wrote Rupert Murdoch and asked him if he would give me 30 minutes on Fox News. He responded immediately, said yes. And so we worked with the team at Fox, and we produced the program ourselves and gave it to them. But there were no restrictions, was able to present the gospel, and they gave me as much time as I wanted. So we were just very thankful and grateful to Rupert Murdoch, to the folks there at Fox for all their help on

on Easter Sunday. But for millions of people who are, for me, the first Sunday on Easter Sunday in my lifetime that I haven't been in church. And I think it was for most people, for most Christians.

And we needed something. And I think God just opened up that door where we could present the gospel there in front of the hospital in Central Park. So Eric, it was a, it was a great moment and we're just again thankful to Rupert and those folks at Fox. Well, and because I have been there twice, I made these little videos and stuff.

I'm familiar with the area. And it's so interesting to think that even while you were doing the service, you know, you have to have social distancing. So you couldn't have a crowd around listening to you. And then behind you, of course, is an actual hospital with tents. So, you know, you can't be making noise. there are people potentially dying, at least very ill. And so the whole thing, it was just beautiful.

So I just want to, you know what, I just want to thank Fox News and Rupert Murdoch, because we need more of that in the media, Franklin. You know this. We need way more of this stuff in the media. And America's hungry. And on behalf of New Yorkers, I want to thank you. And I also want to say that people forget that there are two New Yorks. We think of secular New York.

We think of secular white New York. most of New York City is black and Hispanic people who are serious Christians, and they are often not represented by people like our mayor and so on and so forth. So thank you on behalf of the millions of Christians in New York City and the greater New York area. I just want to thank you on behalf of them. Well, thank you, Eric. And again, we just let me give God the glory, and we thank him for opening doors. I know you do. I want to ask you about the controversy. I heard, you know, I read a couple of articles, and I responded a little bit online, that there are people criticizing you in Samaritan's purse for your views, having a biblical view of sexuality. I consider it utterly bizarre that somebody would criticize a pastor and an evangelist for holding to a biblical view of sexuality. What do you? have to say about this? Well, this is a few people there in New York that have expressed

concern that we would be in Central Park, that the mayor would allow us to be in Central Park because I hold extreme views on marriage. And my view on marriage is biblical. It's between a man and a woman. That's what the Bible teaches. And these groups, of course, don't agree with that. And so therefore they think because of those positions that I should not be qualified to be in New York, period, and that I would be asked to leave. And so they have gone to the governor, to the mayor. And it's, you know, if they disagree, that's fine. They can have their views. But we're in the middle of a fight right now to save life.

And this really isn't the time because they're wanting us to collect all kinds of information and provide information to them. And it's kind of bizarre that in the middle of a fight to save life, that they would want to harass us this way. That's what it is. It's harassment. So we have to defend ourselves. We have to get legal people to look at it because it's the legal issues that they're trying to bring against us. But we're going to continue to help the people in the city. We're not going to stop for a second.

And we're not going to back up one minute to neglect. the people that God has sent us there to serve. And we're going to continue to do that to the very best of our ability. And we don't discriminate there. This is one of the things they thought being an evangelical Christian that we would only serve evangelical Christians. It's just not true. Anybody who comes into our hospital, they could be gay, be transgender, they could be a

Muslim, a Hindu, people of different faiths, or just no faith at all. we're going to treat everybody the same. And matter of fact, I would say, send me the people that don't believe in God. Send me those folks because our staff would love them and pray for them and care for them. And it would be my hope and prayer that by the time they left our hospital, they would be followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. So we've got a great team of people down there that just love and care for everybody. And we certainly would never discriminate or hold back care because of person.

person believed differently or dressed differently or had different color of skin. We just don't do that. Well, we have some friends here in New York who sent us a video of a friend of theirs. A guy named Whitney Kilsen. I'm sure you have already met him, but he's somebody who lives practically across the street, you know, in that expensive neighborhood, and he saw something going on. He checked it out. He does not hold the views that you and I have, and yet he was moved, so moved by what he saw that he decided to get involved and to include his friend. And when I went there on Holy Saturday with my wife and daughter, we just happened to bump into him. And it was just a precious, precious thing to get to talk to him and to hear his heart because he has been obviously moved by what's going on.

We're going to go to a quick break. Do me your favor Wop in the door I let me Then I looked over Jordan and what did I see Coming forward to carry me home

There was a band of angels Are coming after me Coming forward to carry me home So I've just been moved Reverend Franklin Graham Talking to you now because it reminds me of what I've been seeing at the hospital just the two times I've gone there.

I want to make a comment to a lot of people don't know this. When you all decide to do this, it's because of your love of Jesus. And you make no bones about that. You're not just trying to do good works. You're not just trying to do something. You do this specifically because of God's call to you. And so you say that we want Christians to serve with us. They have to sign a statement of faith. anybody does this. I mean, if there's a Muslim hospital or everybody in America has the right, you know, to say, we're doing this for these reasons and we want these kind of people. But when I went there with my wife and daughter last Saturday, we just happened to come. It was around 630. And it was while the shifts were changing, obviously the nurses and folks have 12-hour shifts. And I noticed that before the nurses went into the, their shift, they were having a devotional time. They were singing hymns. And I thought to myself, this is why you have the right to say we only want people who love Jesus to be on our team. We'll serve anybody, but we reserve the right to have people here because what we're trying

to do, it's not merely about medical excellence, although you have tremendous medical excellence. And I've seen that. I've corroborated that from non-Christians. But it's just a beautiful thing. Tell us a little bit about the Ebola virus, because I know that a lot of the excellence that you brought to New York City and to this pandemic, coronavirus, has to do with the experience of Samaritans Perst doctors in Africa fighting Ebola. Thank you, Eric. That's right. So many of our doctors and nurses did get their experience treating Ebola. Ebola, the coronavirus is a very difficult virus, and it's very serious, but it's not Ebola. Ebola, your organs begin to melt within you.

I mean, you begin to bleed from your nose. You begin to bleed from your ears. You begin to bleed from your eyes. Every orifice on your body is secreting blood. And your body just seems to the organs actually just melt inside of you. It's a terrible, terrible disease, very contagious. Just I can't tell you how dangerous Ebola is. And Samaritan is first, there's only two.

organizations that has any experience in dealing with Ebola. It's Samaritan's Purse and Medicine's on frontier out of Europe. And we have worked with them. They've worked with us. But we're the only two organizations that do this. And our doctors and nurses have developed protocols and procedures that protect them and keep them safe and keep them from catching Ebola. And so we bring those same practices to the field hospital.

We treat the field hospital like it was an Ebola treatment center. And we are very careful. We have the inner core of the hospital is a hot zone, and nobody comes into that hot zone unless they're gowned and dressed a certain way. And then when they leave the hot zone, someone helps them take their outer garments off, take their shoes off. We wash the shoes with like a bleach solution.

And we don't allow people to walk. We wear their street shoes into the Ebola, or excuse me, into the coronavirus area. And so we treat everybody in New York just like it's an Ebola treatment center, and it protects them, and it protects our staff. We want people to be healed, and we want to heal them,

and we want them to be able to walk out that door. And so we take infection very seriously, and none of my workers up to this point, whether it's Italy or whether it's in New York, has come down. down with a coronavirus. It's because of what we learned in Africa treating Ebola because one of our doctors there, Dr. Brantley got Ebola and he just about died, but God saved his life.

And we learned a lot from that. And we've made different protocols so that won't happen again. I had the privilege of talking to Dr. Brantley and actually meeting him in person. and what you all are doing going on the front lines in this way. People need to understand it's real, you're risking death. It's a beautiful thing. I want to talk to you, Franklin, for a moment, just about the times we're living in. What upsets me most is when Christians and Americans in general don't understand religious liberty and free speech.

In other words, the idea that having the same views on sexuality as Jesus of Nazareth, makes me hateful or a bigot is an absurdity. Let's face it, it's an absurdity. Having the view that the Muslim religion, not the people, but that the religion is a false religion, and that all false religions do not have their source in God, but in something very dark and deceptive, that is what we call standard boilerplate, traditional, historical, orthodox, Christianity, but people are trying to demonize what the faith has held for 2,000 years as bigotry. And I just want to say the reason I feel so strongly about supporting you and what you're doing here in New York is that people need to understand. You don't need to agree with someone,

but you need to respect their views and to suddenly label you and the people associated with you as bigots or hate mongers. It's fundamentally an American. And it's also, it's also, it's also simply illogical. You're not saying anything that your father didn't say and that Billy Sunday didn't say and that every Christian didn't say going all the way back to the early Christians. You're right, Eric. But what it comes down to the bottom line are these are people that hate God. They hate his son, Jesus Christ, and they oppose him at every turn. And so that's a where we are. And this whole thing on sexuality is a huge issue in our country. It's a huge issue within our church. And I wish our pastors would be stronger on this issue. We need them

to be stronger on this issue. Because what happens is our young people are going to state schools and they are being fed this information that it is okay to experiment with sex. It's okay for two men to be together, two women to be together. You need to experiment and discover your sexuality. And so our young people are getting exposed to this in school. And there isn't any pushback. And we need to be standing for the truth. And God made us and created us. And we just can't forget that there's a creator. One day we're going to have to stand before him and give an account to him for the way we have lived our lives. And I want the young people today know that God's got a plan for their life. He loves them, he cares for them, but he's made us male and female. And that is it. And there's no other

X or any other group out there. It's just male or female. Franklin, think of the irony. Every serious Muslim believes what you just said. No one is calling them bigots. Every serious Jew believes exactly what you said. Jesus, the Jew, the rabbi, believed exactly. what you said. So I just want to call on my fellow Christians. If we don't stand up for the truth, and by the truth, I don't simply mean the truth that we're talking about sexuality, but the truth that we have the right in America to hold to traditional biblical views without being demonized. That's part of what has made America great. And as soon as we go down this path, as soon as we dignify it, as the mayor of New York, Mayor de Blasio did, dignifying it,

saying he's going to send monitors to the Samaritans' purse hospital to make sure that everything's on the up and up. I thought that's just despicable. It's a lack of leadership to dignify what is genuinely hateful. Those accusations were genuinely hateful. People are just taking cheap political shots. But I think Christians and non-Christians need to stand up against it, need to be bold and say, listen, you don't have to agree, but at least be fair. Don't demonize people just because you disagree with them. Well, I think it's important for us to stand for what we believe and not back down and not be scared. Many Christians, remember Peter, when the Garden of Githemite, he followed our Lord at a distance to see what the outcome might be. there are a lot of Christians today that are following at a distance

because they want to see what the outcome might be. And if things are good, then they'll raise their hand and they'll identify themselves as a Christian. But if the crowd is booing the Christians, then they're quiet and they kind of slink off into the shadows. We don't want to be like Peter was when he denied our Lord and just be following at a distance. We need Christians who will stand up and proclaim their faith,

and do it boldly and not be afraid or intimidated by these various organizations that want to shout us down and make us afraid. I couldn't agree more. It's why I write about so many heroes. My new book is called Seven More Men, and the Seventh Man in that book, The Seventh Hero, is Billy Graham, your father. I just want to say that we need to study the lives of these heroes who are not afraid to speak the truth. You, sir, I consider a hero. I'm so grateful to call you a friend and to know that you're my brother. Thank you, Franklin Graham, for being my guest today.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Eric. God bless. Heroes and role models have always been tremendously important to me. In my new book, Seven More Men, I tell the uplifting and inspiring stories of Martin Luther, George Whitfield, William Booth, George Washington Carver, Sergeant Alvin York, Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Billy Graham.

Each of these men have the courage to surrender themselves to a higher purpose for the sake of others. Become acquainted with these seven incredible heroes and your life will be immeasurably richer. Order your copy of seven more men today. For more info, go to my website, Eric Mataxis.com. Christian bestselling author and speaker Richard E. Simmons does not shy away from the big questions of life. his latest book is called reflections on the existence of God, and it tackles the biggest question of all, does God exist? I've read this book, and I got to tell you, I'm a little biased,

but you can imagine that I like it a lot, because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says, I've taught apologetics for many years and I've read every scholar mentioned in this book.

Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend. I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list. Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how important this is to me.

your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself life's toughest questions. Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of Godbook.com. That's existence of Godbook.com. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Metaxus show.

As you know, in some places this is a radio show and other places, this is a TV. show right now i don't know what it is all i know is that i have two of my favorite people as my guests their brothers they were born on the same day which technically makes them twins they are david and jason benham i call them the benham brothers benham brothers welcome to the program thanks for having us eric you look dapper as always you do man i'm just like hair i could tell you hasn't gotten a haircut in a while. You're looking good, though. And you guys look so groomed, it makes me uncomfortable. Let me just say this. You all have been involved in a lot of stuff. We're friends because we both care about the pro-life movement

or more importantly we care about the unborn human beings. And David, you were on the program last week talking to me about what happened to you in front of an abortion clinic. in North Carolina, what happened was an outrage. And I want my TBN audience and my radio audience to hear this because this is something that we need to discuss and we need to figure out what we're going to do about it because this is unacceptable in America. So tell us what happened to you. And Jason, if you want to chime in, feel free. I'll begin with just one quick statement that our constitutional rights don't go out the window when we're facing a global pandemic. I got a phone call last Saturday from our sidewalk counselors who are counseling for our ministry,

a federally recognized public charity called Cities for Life. Jason and I founded it 10 years ago. We have sidewalk counselors that offer help and support and social services from baby showers to medical support to housing assistance, whatever these mothers facing an unwanted pregnancy might need. And so this isn't some protest or demonstration. This is actually a loving social service that we offer to these mothers in the midst of this crisis. So I get a phone call Saturday morning from our attorney that said, hey, there's about 15 police officers at the local abortion facility, and they're threatening arrest to our sidewalk counselors.

Now, I'll just say real quick, Eric, when the whole COVID stay-in-shelter laws came into place, they deemed what was essential and non-essential businesses, and abortion was considered an essential business. And inside the provisions of the statute of the stay-and-shelter local ordinances and state statute, they talk about public charities are still essential, especially if you're giving social services. So we, as a ministry, if abortion is going to be essential, then our ministry is essential. So our sidewalk counselors were there, and we actually, as an organization, decided, let's go above and beyond. Let's still practice social distancing, because I mean, we want to

love all of our neighbors as well, both born and preborn. So we had sidewalk chalk that marked out spacing of over six feet with our sidewalk counselors, hand sanitizer, all of that. And we only had three sidewalk counselors there on Saturday. So I show up and the police came right to me and said, sir, you can't be here. We cannot have a gathering of more than 10 people. And I said, well, hold on a second. First, there's not 10 people here. Second, I am the chairman of the board of a federally recognized public charity. We have every right to be here. And he said, no, you don't. You cannot be here. This is a protest. There's more than 10 people here. He's just making this stuff up.

And you can see this in the video. Maybe he didn't know the difference between four and ten. Is that possible? I guess. Well, here's the thing. Listen, you've got to give people grace, okay? You guys are such Pharisees. Maybe this individual did not know the difference between four and ten.

Did you ever think about that? You didn't even think about that, did you? I mean, he should have thought about that, yes. But you know what? He probably wasn't homeschooled. And we weren't either. So we're not really good at adding you. But let me say this real quick.

Before Jason jumps in, you know, like, Eric, if you show up to a grocery store, and it's, I don't know that you even have these in New York, but in here we got these stores. No, no, no, no. You've got grocery stores, but strip centers. Where a big old grocery store is the anchor, and then all these other chain stores located to the big strip center anchor tenant. You know, if you show up to a grocery store and you look down at the FedEx building and you see three people standing there, 10 people standing in front of the grocery store,

and another two people over there at the, you know, the hair and nail salon, you don't say, oh, man, there's 25 people here. That must have been what he did because this abortion facility is in the middle of a commercial. It's like a commercial building with 200 commercial companies that are all around it on about a one-mile stretch. So if he looked down a quarter mile and saw two or three people, maybe he lumped them in with us. This is, I mean, it's really insanity what's happening here, Erica. And one of the things that we talked about together on your show last week that we're seeing even worse now is that the Charlotte Observer and the local media outlets, along with the police department and the city attorney and now the mayor's office are all going along with this whole story that we staged a protest of 50 people. That's literally what they're saying.

They don't have pictures. They don't have video. We have the pictures. We have the videos. and nothing shows that what they're blaming on us is true. It's just not true. So they ended up arresting me. Well, I want to get to that, but I was going to say it's very hard when someone out and out lies,

because then you realize, you know, it's kind of like you're in a boxing match and somebody pulls out a knife. What do you do at that point? In other words, here they are lying, misrepresenting things, and then people pick it up. Charlotte Observer and other journalistic institutions whose job it is to check the facts and to tell the truth. I mean, we're never going to get it right 100% of the time, but that's really the main goal. When you see them doing biased, you know, fake journalism, it's so grievous. It's grievous. It shouldn't be grievous to everyone in America, not just the people who agree with us on this issue.

This is very, very important. We're going to go to a break here. So hang on one second. Folks. We'll be right back with the Benham Brothers. All right, folks, I'm talking to the Benham Brothers. It's the Eric Metaxis show. We were just discussing this idea of how you know what happened.

You were there. I know you guys. You know, you're not, you know, there are, let's be honest. There are activists and people who don't hold to the standards that the two of you do or I would of the truth. And they're going to do whatever they need to do to succeed in their activism. But I know when you say that there were three people there, there were three people there. And when it is portrayed differently by the police and then by the newspapers, people begin to lose faith and are losing faith in these institutions that we must have faith in. In other words, that we can't have a country where you don't trust the authorities, where you don't trust the press.

When it gets to that point, everything breaks down. So I am just stunned you had to go through this. And then you said you were arrested. So tell us about that, David. Yeah, so they arrested me. So like I said, we had three sidewalk counselors there. And then we had a mobile sonogram unit just down the road with two sonogram technicians inside the unit. So they arrest me.

There was no one standing around me. I had a couple of sons behind me standing at a distance. And so they arrest me. But here's what's interesting, Eric. While they are arresting me, my hands are in cuffs. There was a woman who had spoken to one of our sidewalk counselors. Her name was Rina. she went on board the mobile ultrasound unit.

She saw a picture of her child. She decided that she was going to keep her baby. And now our sidewalk counselor at Cities for Life has now placed her into our now mentor program. And inside that mentor program, we are going to accompany her to her prenatal visits. We're going to throw a baby shower for her. If she has housing needs or any of these other things, we plug her right in. Is she going to get that from Planned Parenthood? Is she going to get something like that from the abortion facility?

Heck no. So if our governor and our mayor and our leaders are saying that abortion is essential, then what we have now plugged this mother into is essential. So while I was getting taken off in the squad car, a mother was choosing life. And not only is her baby saved, but her situation has just improved immensely because now she is part of a network. There's another pro-life ministry in Charlotte called Love Life. They have a mentor network of over 300 families.

We have 45 families that have already worked with Department of Social Services to help with foster and adoption from our social services in Charlotte. So we're not some rabble rousers. We're not just guys that are coming in and trying to make a scene or any. No, we love our community. Now, as I was being taken away, there were a few other folks that were praying across the street that were kind of walking toward the scene. So if the police are saying I was staging a protest that nothing could be further from the truth. As I was being taken away, there were a few other people walking down, socially distant, wanting to pay attention. Like, what on earth is going on?

That's why after I got arrested, there were seven other people that were arrested as well. And so, Eric, it's very disturbing what's happening to our constitutional authority. By the way, I don't buy into, and we can't, as American citizens, buy into the fact that I was there representing a nonprofit public charity. I could have been there with 50 people if I wanted, but we chose not to do that. We were going above and beyond. So I don't even give the police or the mayor the credit of saying, well, there were 50 people there. We made a red. That is just, it's really crazy what's happening, Eric.

So anyway, we just appreciate guys like you and others that are giving us a voice because we're not here to just create controversy. We're here to love the unborn and to stand for us. our rights and to help mothers like Rina and the 5,000 mothers have chosen life since we started our organization and gotten plugged into all of the life affirming services and ministries that are really doing the heavy lifting. It's been an amazing thing and we're not going to let it stop. Well, listen, when you care about the unborn, as you guys do, sometimes it gets political. Sometimes Christians need to fight. In other words, when you have people doing what was done to you, We need to fight with them.

We need to fight with them in the courts. We need to fight with them in the court of public opinion. It's why I wanted to have you on this show, because what they're doing is wrong. And if we do not call them out on it, we will do so civilly. But if we don't call them out on it, and if we don't fight them, whether it's in the courts or in other ways, we are to blame because who's going to suffer? The unborn are going to suffer. They're going to be killed in their mother's wounds.

The mothers are going to suffer because they're going to walk around with that for the rest of their lives. So I think that it's no different. slavery times, if somebody said, well, I'm involved in the Underground Railroad, but I don't want to get political. So if, you know, some nasty, racist lawman, quote-unquote, decides to, I have to fight. I have to do something because I care about the slaves. And if I don't do anything, if I don't fight for what is right, I'm not the one who's going to suffer. The slaves are going to suffer. And so I think that a lot of times Christians are afraid to fight. They don't understand.

that God calls us to this battle for his purposes. If you care about the unborn, you cannot allow the governmental authorities who are put there by God to abuse their behavior. Now, who do you think was behind this? Because I find this so bizarre that they show up. I mean, they arrested seven people. Please explain to me why they couldn't just talk to you or issue a summons or whatever they wanted to do, but they actually arrested you. Yeah. It's viewpoint discrimination is what it is. And, you know, the mayor's office from the mayor pro tem actually publicly tweeted a picture of our sidewalk counselors a week before I was arrested. You can see the picture on her Twitter feed of our sidewalk counselors counseling a mother, social distancing, which we didn't have to do that, but we did,

above and beyond. And she said, at CMPD, Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department, shut this down. They're breaking the social distancing guidelines. She tweets this publicly. And that was a week of mayor pro tem. Julie L's, I selt. Well, she's the mayor pro tem. She's not the mayor, but it was the mayor's office. And she publicly tweets this. And then that Saturday, so this was Tuesday, Wednesday, somewhere around there.

That Saturday, the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department showed up and made arrests. And so we know something's going on here. And so we have the Alliance Defending Freedom that is handling all that legal stuff. What Jason and I are doing is we're going after the conversation, after the narrative. after the culture bringing this message, you know, just right over your left shoulder, I'm looking at Dietrich Bonhofer, that amazing book you wrote that I absolutely love. Look, he was willing to be a voice. He wasn't a Christian that was going to back up and just allow the Jews to be led to slaughter

and allow his nation to deliver all the propaganda without a voice. And did he not say that it's one thing, you know, it's not enough to help hurting people. You must also stop the things that hurt them. This is very hard. to that. Yeah, this is hurtful for American. This is, we're going to, we're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to the, to the Benham brothers. It's an important conversation. Hey there, folks. It's the Eric Metaxe show. I'm talking to the Benham brothers, otherwise known as Diamond and Silk. Guys, I love talking to you. Which one of you is Diamond? That's me. Of course,

I'm Diamond. I'm Diamond. Actually, I'm honest with you. I love them a little bit more than I love you, but I love you all tremendously, so it works out. We were just talking about Dietrich Bonhoeff or David, and we were saying that Christians need to know that there's a time to fight. There's a time to fight. And I think many Christians today don't understand that. They just think, like, well, if you care about the unborn, how do you put up with this kind of stuff? Yeah, you know, the thing is, is that Jesus tells us greater love has no one than this, then they lay their lives down for their friends. See, the thing is, is that we have a distorted view of love in the church today.

It's L-U-V-V. It's not true biblical L-O-V-E, which means we're willing to lay our lives down. That's what Bonhofer did. That's what the great men and women of the faith did. They laid their lives down. And Jason and I, look, we're not these radical Christian activists. People call us Christian activists. We're not Christian activists.

We're just Christians who've read our Bible, who study history. And no, this is a moment for us as believers, as the Church of Jesus Christ, the pillar and support of the truth, to love others more than ourselves. And we're entrepreneurs. I mean, Jason, people go,

well, what was Jason doing when you were getting arrested? Well, he's running our businesses. And we're consulting entrepreneurs all across the country. Listen, now's a moment, not to just make income, but to have impact. Well, and that's why I have had a lot of people say, okay, Jason, so where we're, you during this time. And I tell everybody, hey, somebody's got to make the money around here.

Right, Eric? I mean, I got to make the money to support David. But the way that you were going to say I was hiding in the root cellar. He was. He was. That's where he was. Maybe maybe not. But, you know, the way that you stand for life right now, it may be that you actually get arrested in front of an abortion clinic like what David did. Or it may be that you're actually as an entrepreneur running your business and supporting pro-life organizations. Either way, you're exactly right, Eric. Now is the time to stand. Just like Dietrich Bonhofer, today, this is our Holocaust. And it's our responsibility to stand, whatever that looks like. Well, I mean, there's so many parallels. I can take it back to the burning of the Reichstag. I mean, if you look at that, when the Reichstag

burned, Hitler and the Nazis use the opportunity to seize power. And that's kind of what a lot of big government people do. They see a crisis. And even if they don't do it consciously in a consciously evil way. They just instinctively sees power. And so we're seeing things happening now during this pandemic that you would never see in the United States of America. And I want every American to understand you need to know what it means to be an American, what your rights are as an American, what your liberties are, what your religious liberty is. And there are going to be times you're going to have to be civilly disobedient. You may need to get arrested. Folks, people have died so that we can have these freedoms.

So I just want to say thank you to the two of you for doing what you're doing and for showing us the way, because these battles aren't going to go away. But if we do not fight, it's going to get worse. We need to fight. We need to show people what is right and what is wrong in America. And you don't have to agree with us, but you have to abide by certain rules. That's exactly right. And ultimately we know this is a spiritual battle.

So we've got to be motivated by compassion. We're happy warriors because we know the end of the story. But for now, for our children and our children's children, these God-given rights are worth fighting for. They're worth defending. And as Jason said, in whatever capacity that you can do it, stand up, get into the conversation. Hey, take this podcast, take this radio show. When it's out on social media, circulate it. Just get it to all of your friends.

Let them hear this conversation. And then you speak as well. We've got to get this going. This whole idea of Christians are not supposed to be political. That's pixie stick Christianity. We're done with that. That cotton candy Christianity is what's gotten us here in the first place. I wish we weren't out of time.

I love you guys. God bless you to be continued. Amen. Amen.