The Eric Metaxas Show - Gene Ho (Encore)

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

Gene Ho, official photographer of Donald Trump’s campaign for the presidency in 2016, is in the studio to share a snapshot of the real man in the Oval Office, captured in his book, “Trumpography.” (Encore Presentation)

know that Eric worst dentures had a bit in his family for generations? It's true. They're discolored and disgusting. But they have deep personal meaning for Eric, so we ask that you respect that. And now your host, Eric Mattaxas. Hey, hey, hey, folks, it's the Eric Mattaxas show. And have I got a show for you? Have I got a guest for you? I'm sitting here. I don't know how to sum this up. I'm sitting here with the official campaign photographer for Donald J. Trump. His name is Gene Ho, H-O. And your story, Gene, is so incredible. First of all, welcome the program.

Oh, man, thank you so much for having me here. I love it. Your story is crazy. Like, I don't know where to start. First of all, your last name is H-O-H-O. Ho. Any relationship to Don Ho? No, most common question ever.

But no, not at all. I knew there was no relationship. I can sing Tiny Bubbles. I can sing Tiny Bubbles if you need to. The fact that you're aware of the song Tiny Bubbles, I just want to say A plus. Go to the head of the class. So you are, you live in South Carolina.

Yes. And you got to be the official photographer for the Trump 2016 campaign. So there's a lot going on around that. I want to ask you all about that. And then I want to ask you, you just told me that you came to faith as a Christian as a result, very recently, of your relationship with Donald Trump and this whole crazy thing. thing. Yes. I mean, this is the most bizarre story because I was a big time liberal and did the photography for Trump, supported Trump. But right after that, first of all, you know, Trump's a wonderful, genuine dynamic man. But right after the election, so I was there with the Trump campaign

for all two years. But wait, you were politically liberal and he hired you to be his official campaign photographer. Trump doesn't care. He just wants to know if you get the job done. We all know about that. Wait a minute. Everybody knows he's a racist and stuff. Aren't you? Obviously, right? Are you? Aren't you slightly Asian? Yes. With the name like Ho, I'm guessing, what is that, Lithuanian? Just kidding. Okay, so you told me that your first language growing up was Chinese.

Let's go back. Let's go back. Tell me where did you grow up and where are your parents from? Well, both of my parents are Chinese, so they came from my mom from Hong Kong and my dad from mainland China came here and then Chinese was my actually, Cantonese was my first language. I grew up on Long Island, New York, Long Island. I started off speaking Chinese. And then when I was about three or four years old, my dad said, listen, we're going to speak English in this house. So that's why I don't really have any kind of,

that I know of Chinese accent. Wow. Okay. So you're you're really Chinese in the sense that your parents are from there and they come to this country and decide to make you speak English. Now, at what point growing up in Long Island? I know where you're from in Long Island on the North Shore there. Right. Because my relatives are from there. When did you decide you want to go into photography? Basically right out of high school, I went and traveled down to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and lived there ever since then and had a really dynamic business. This is a 30-year business of photography. At one time, I had 25 photographers working for me.

We were doing long before this Trump thing, I was doing high-end weddings. They called me this celebrity photographer because I would do photo shoots of people from Hollywood, sports stars, all that. Who are some of the people that you have photographed, just to tell my audience that you really are a celebrity photographer? Well, on our website, we had different people. We had like Danny Trajo, who's an actor there. We had a lot of the football stars, and for a long time, I did the photography for the Atlanta Falcon cheerleader. So that was a tough job. Wow.

Okay. So you obviously are very successful. you build a bit. I mean, I have 25 photographers working for you under you. That's like, okay, you've got a big business going on here, and you're obviously doing very well. How in the world, since you were politically liberal, did Donald Trump discover you? This was almost a chance encounter. Eric, the most interesting thing about it, I was just doing an event. It was the Tea Party convention, like Donald Trump was there, Ben Carson was there, and I saw them all, and I was doing pictures of everyone there. But I saw Trump and I was like, wow, this guy, first of all, I thought

he was, honest, I thought he was going to be a jerk when I first was going to meet him. He just blew me away. He wasn't a jerk. He was so genuine and he made people around him feel important. He made me feel important. Was he too genuine? This, I'm telling you, blew me away. So then I took pictures of everyone, but I was really impressed with Trump. So I sent pictures into his organization, not thinking anything of it. And I get an email, and it says this letter, Trump said, Gene loved the photos.

Thank you very much. And then they asked me to do their first event with Trump. Had only 50 people there, if you can imagine. That's how small it was. It was long before you even began. Holy cow. It would blow your mind to go to an event where Trump was, and they had empty seats up front.

It's bizarre. So this is the right at the beginning of the beginning. Right, right at the beginning. And stayed there and did this stuff until the last day, until election day. And basically, after election day, that's where all the problems began for me. Okay, so, but I mean, just to frame the story for my audience, so you're telling me that you were his official campaign photographer,

do the whole campaign. Yeah. So you saw a lot of stuff. I saw, I had access not only to the backstage, but at times I actually had access to the green room where he was. I did the pictures, a lot of them that went on his Twitter, and just provided the campaign with photography. and also did the VIP photos backstage.

So I saw him interact with everybody, interact with other people backstage. And what I find interesting, because you're saying what I have noticed as well, and people keep saying that he really is a nice guy, because I've experienced that. And then everybody who seems to have spent time with him, they go out of their way to tell you he's very genuine,

which you don't, you know, if you're watching him in the media, you have no idea. what he's exactly like. Well, you know what? That is what the man is behind the scenes. And I'm telling you, during the campaign, I preceded the predated the campaign. So when I went on there, I didn't have a non-disclosure agreement. I could have wrote anything in my book about Donald Trump. I could have told lies about him, quite frankly, and cleaned house.

I could have got paid a lot. But I decided to write a book about him and tell the truth. Okay, and that's the book I have here. Yes. It's called Trumpography. how biblical principles paved the way to the American presidency. Now, this is amazing. Trumpography, how biblical principles paved the way to the American presidency.

So you're telling me, when you went to work for him, you were a liberal and you were not a Christian. Exactly. This is, like, this is not that long ago. I am telling you, this is a few years ago. And right after, right after that Trump won, and I tried to keep it a secret. I'll be honest. I almost wanted to be part of the silent majority. So after on the last day, I basically endorsed Trump because I didn't want people to think I was endorsing them because I was working on the campaign. The campaign finished on the last day. Right before Election Day, I endorsed Trump.

Who knew he won the election? And then my world came crashing down. My liberal photographers quit on me. People boycotted me. I got attacked. I got audited by the IRS. And it was a brutal audit. Most audits last three months. My audit lasted nine months. And it destroyed me. And it was then basically that I found God. So do you think it was genuinely vindictive on the part of the deep state IRS that they were going after people who were pro-Trump?

The audit was so brutal that my accountant said that in her 41 years as a CPA, She has never seen an IRS audit that brutal. It was bad. I tell you, I hear this stuff and smoke is coming out of my ears because the idea, the idea that in the United States of America, we would use the government to punish people for their political views, if I could, these people would be put behind bars or hanged for treason. This is the most extraordinary betrayal of foundational American principles.

When you hear this, when you hear about Lois Lerner under Obama targeting Tea Party, you think this cannot be. Like, there's no way in America we would be doing this. I mean, Nixon tried to do some stuff like this, and, you know, he gets impeached or he would have been impeached. I mean, I'm sitting here with you, and I just can't believe this. Well, you know what? It did me the best favor ever, because in times of darkness, you could run away from God or you could run to God. And really quick, I call it the Jesus chair. I remember sitting there being audited and didn't know what to do.

And I just pulled up another chair. I said, Jesus, if you want to sit in that chair, sit in it and help me. Okay, we're going to come back. We've got the full hour with Gene Ho. The website is Gene Ho, G-E-N-E-H-O, Gene Ho.com. We'll be right back. Tiny bubble, tiny bubble. Be happy to make me feel fine.

Hey there, folks. That, of course, the great Don Ho. Who can forget Don Ho? Hey, I remember when he was on the Brady Bunch when they went to Hawaii. Unbelievable stuff. We're sitting here with no relation to him. Gene Ho, a photographer who is the official photographer for the Donald Trump campaign 2016 and is telling us his absolutely amazing story. Gene, you just told us that you were liberal. You were not a Christian, and that in the middle of the hell of being audited by the IRS, it strikes me, obviously, as being a vindictive, evil, evil thing. But in the middle of that, somehow you turn to God. Now, how did you even think to turn to God? Because most people don't, you know, how did that happen? You really, no, I won't say you didn't have a choice. You could run away from God during tough times or you can run to him.

You know what? I didn't have it. I was trapped. I had a big photography studio. 25 employees, they all started leaving me because they're, They're all liberal. They didn't like the fact that I endorsed Trump. So that's going on.

People were boycotting my company. And then on top of that, I'm getting audited by the IRS. Brutal, brutal audit. Basically, I'm running out of money. I feel like the biggest loser because I can barely take care of my family. And I have this audit coming down upon me. And it's long. It's like three times a size or in length of a normal audit.

And it was then I just said, like, I was crushed. I had to do something. And I tell the story about the Jesus chair. I just basically at one of my audits, I just pulled up a chair. And I said, Jesus, there's an open chair. If you want to sit in that chair and watch me through this, it would be wonderful. But I know people who are mature Christians who wouldn't have the presence of mine to do that. I don't think I would.

So what was it in your life? Were you raised as any kind of a Christian? Did you have a background of any Christian faith? Or did you meet people that were Christians later on? No. The truth of the matter is, I grew up basically with no relationship. religion. And really, you know, I had, you know, read the Bible over the course of, you know, growing up. But, you know, when you are there in the midst of it, and you are just taking the

world by storm, big, big photography company, making good money doing it. And then on top of that, celebrities, and then I'm doing the Trump thing. So I feel like the biggest hot shot in the world, for two years I'm doing photography for Donald Trump. And then to have that and to have my world crushed upon me with this. I just knew I needed to turn somewhere. And it was then I just started rereading the Bible again, but rereading it carefully and just welcoming Jesus back into my life. I mean, I don't know where to start. I mean, it's so amazing that that happened. And it's also amazing to me that you're a liberal surrounded by liberals. And, you know, I've got so many liberal friends. So this is not about that. It's just that it's interesting to me that in the course of

your experience with Donald Trump, politically, you changed enough that you were willing to stick your neck out and endorse him, even though you knew, you know, that you're going to, you're going to pay a price. I mean, I've paid a price nothing like you have. But I mean, you know, to be willing to stick your neck out like that, what was it about him or his campaign that made you depart from your thinking up to that point suddenly to do this? Well, here's a thing. When it comes to Trump, Trump, once I started, first of all, as a president, he definitely, when I was back then, I knew he would make a great president. The proof is what's going on right now. But the thing is, when I was in the midst of it, and I started reading the Bible and started thinking about it, what really changed me with this is that all the people that I read about in the Bible, the liberal left wants to put Christians into this little little box.

You know, they want us to be the little mouse in the corner. put you in a little box and say, hey, we can make fun of you. You shut up and stay in this little corner and just do your Christian things. But here's the thing. One of the things I read, Jesus said, you know, I send you out as sheep amongst wolves. And everyone remembers the first part where it says, you know, so be as innocent as doves. But he says to be shrewd as snakes. And what we need now, what Trump, I mean, everyone I read about in the Bible, these were strong Christian men that stood up for their beliefs. And that's what I found out we needed to do. We need to be strong Christians that stand up for what we believe and not be those Christians that they want to make fun of us and say, oh, just stay behind there, just stay quiet. That's what Trump has done.

He's taught us in America as Christians, stand up for yourself. Stand up for what you believe. And if we get attacked, fine. The whole thing is so funny because you imagine what we're talking about. There's some people who they, what I find interesting about Trump is that he, has, by dint of his outspokenness and sometimes saying things that you and I would not say, whatever, he has enabled people to give themselves some kind of permission to hate. They hate him and they love hating him and they feel they have permission.

It's kind of like somebody says, yeah, that's Hitler. You need to hate him. And I think to myself, especially Christians, you're not supposed to hate. You're supposed to pray for people, pray for your enemies, love your enemies, whatever. But we're seeing something very, very ugly. And part of the reason I'm bringing this up is that people repeat things about him that I know are not true. And I think to myself, if you don't like him, that's fine. But don't repeat over and over and over things that are not true.

It's just wrong. When you say he puts children in cages, wait a minute. That's not true. But they repeat it over and over and over. And of course, President Obama did the exact same thing with children at the border. Nobody mentions that. So this stuff is very painful. And I'm bringing this up because you mentioned that this experience with people constantly say he made fun of a handicapped reporter.

You have another story. Yes. One of the first pictures I took of Trump, it might have been on the first day or the second day. And the young man became my friend. But Trump was in a room and there was a quadriplegic man, you know, with the whole thing in a wheelchair, he moved his wheelchair with his mouth. I was there. he ended up becoming my friend his name is Joey Thomas

here's the crazy thing about it I was there took pictures of Trump talking to him I was working for the campaign I said to Cory Lewandowski and to Trump hey I got these photos for you you know here go ahead and use them they didn't want to use them they didn't want to use them

every politician would have been out there saying yes give me those photos so I can exploit this man in the quadriplegic he says I don't you know we didn't do that for that And then even later on when they said he was mocking a New York Times reporter, whatever, which he was and I was there. But even after that, I say, hey, by the way, don't you remember, I have this photo? Nope.

Nope. That's how people, that's the type of man that he is. That's actually very interesting. Well, the thing about this, that he's making fun of the reporter who, he, there's a video, if you watch it, whenever he made fun of anybody, all kinds of people, healthy people, he made the same hand gestures, kind of like a flailing. kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing. And so they tagged him and said, oh, he's making fun specifically of this reporter. And I thought, that is clearly not true. And yet they repeated over and over. And again, I say to people like, look, you don't have to like Trump. There's many things about him that I would agree with you. I don't like or this or that.

But for crying out loud, just tell the truth. Don't repeat lies over and over. You don't do your side any favors. You know, Eric, here is the proof that. in my book that I'm telling the truth. When I wrote this book, I was getting audited by the IRS, I was broke. The book didn't come out yet. I predated the campaign, so I never had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. I could have told just a little bit lies. Just told some lies about Trump.

Oh, I saw this backstage. I saw this backstage. They would have gave me a million dollar advance to say, yes, we want your book. Yes, because you were behind the scenes campaign photographer. Right. I could have told lies. But I told the truth. Yeah, you're a Christian.

now, you got to tell the truth, because you honor God, God will honor you. Now, the book is called Trumpography. Now, let's get into this here, because this is a, it's a beautiful book. You are obviously a photographer. So this is loaded with photographs of backstage stuff that you saw at the campaign, pictures of you and Ivanka and all this crazy stuff. But the title of book is Trumpography, how biblical principles paved the way to the American presidency. So how how how is that, what made you decide to do that? Why not just do a photo book? You know what? When I, the craziest story, everyone thought, everyone knew I was coming out with a book. That wasn't even a question, but I thought myself that it was going to be just a photo book. And this was at the time where I

started reading the Bible. And I was like, you know what? Trump did something just like that. And then I would read another story about a character. I said, whoa, hey, you know what? I knew that. I saw that. Trump did something like that. The thing is all these characters in the Bible, Everyone was always saying, well, he's not what you would think of a Christian to be. You know what? The people that I read in the Bible, these characters are tough people, tough people like Joshua that would just get things done. And God love Joshua.

He was brutal sometimes, but he got the job done. And it was just like Trump. That's what he did. Well, see, this is what's interesting because you're talking about a kind of biblical manhood that in our feminized culture, people want to think that being a Christian means being nice. And you think, wait a minute. Was David being nice when he cut the head off of Goliath? Was he being nice?

Did he repent? Did he say, I'm so sorry. Now my faith is more serious. I repent of killing Goliath. No. I mean, it's so much more complicated than people seem to make it. And I think let's at least be aware of the big messiness of what it is to live life so that you can see things clearly. So we're going to get back.

We're talking to Gene Ho. the website is jean ho.com g-e-e-e-h-o jean-ho dot com the book is trumpography we'll be right back christian bestselling author and speaker richard e simmons does not shy away from the big questions of life his latest book is called reflections on the existence of god and it tackles the biggest question of all does god exist i've read this book and i got to tell you i'm a little biased but you can imagine that i like it a lot because simmons offers insights for the those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says,

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Play the Hughes Corporation. So Albin and I, we oblige. That's Rock the Boat, number five on the Billboard chart. We're talking to Gene Ho. Gene, again, I don't know where to start. You just told me, I said to you, do you have family? So you've been married for a while? Yes, 10 years.

and I have my wife and my children and my two smallest children and my wife now. We travel the country together. We're on book tour. We're going to be in California next, but we're also on tour with Diamond and Silk. Now, that sounds like a joke. Are you really on tour with the amazing Diamond and Silk, really? I knew Diamond and Silk before they became famous because I was there with the campaign before they... There's got to be a joke there.

I knew Diamond and Silk when they were... I don't know. There's a show. I love Diamond Silk. And it's, I mean, it's the wonderful thing. I travel with them. Last year I went to seat back with them. They're walking around with their bodyguards and everything. And they're like the Beatles. Like everyone wants to say hello. Oh, no. When I met them, I just thought, are you real? Are you cartoon figures or are you real people? They're exactly who they are. I said to say that when I first met them, I thought, these guys, Diamond Slook are the biggest phonies in the world. And I'm sitting backstage waiting for Trump to get there. And we just became friends. We started talking. And I was like, wow, they're real. I like these phonies. These are real phonies. No, they are so wonderful.

But when you say you're on tour with Diamond and Silk, in what sense? You're the photographer? Yes, a multi-purpose. I do all their photography, so I'm their official photographer for whatever they need. So I'm on tour for that. But when I'm there and I'm at the show, I will also open the show for them. So I'll hop on stage, do my bit. What is with all these, like, exotic races being pro-Trump?

This makes no sense. Do you not understand he's racist? Do you not understand he's Hitler 2.0? What is wrong with Eugene Ho? You know what? What are you missing? Oh, the amazing thing, everyone that's ever met Trump, including minorities like myself, and here's the thing, when it comes to racism, minorities in this country like me,

we can sense prejudice, we can sense racism. I could tell you this. I've seen Trump backstage. He is not great. It's hard to fake it that long over two years behind the scenes. Sometimes in the green room. It's so stupid even that. Of course, I'm joking, but it's so absurd.

I mean, he has had so many black Americans, you know, yesterday watching the Super Bowl, you know, you see one of these ads. Jim Brown is in there. It's like Jim Brown was in the White House with Kanye. And there's so many people of every ilk. And then so many people who were liberals like Brandon Strock, you know, with the walkaway movement. So it really is extraordinary how the president has been caricatured. I always say, again, like, you don't need to like him. at least see the truth. Stop creating this monster so you can, you know, it's like a straw man.

Exactly. And, you know, the thing is, look at all the people that are around him. If they actually met him, they're one over. I mean, you could tell. I mean, people could tell when you meet somebody right off, almost right off the bat. Yeah. Well, I just find him the most funny politician in the history of the universe. Like he's so, when he gives the rallies, the things that he says, I die. Like, I'm hitting the couch. So, you know, like, I just, I find him just hilarious, the stuff that he says, you know. Just a wonderful man, wonderful man. It's, it's extraordinary.

All right. So when you, they always talk about his stamina and his, I mean, it seems to me legendary that he's able to go the way he goes. On one of the last week, I mean, this was long before that the last week of 2016, I am telling you, we were sometimes doing three or four campaign rallies in one day. It was exhausting. I was getting sick. I was getting the flu. Everyone else was tired around them. And it was at that time, Trump was running circles around the whole crew. I mean, it was, it was legendary. I mean, that's the one thing I could say is legendary, his stamina. I mean, have you ever seen, like, he's been in the public

picture for how long. Have you ever seen like, oh, you know, my throat? I'm a little under the weather. It's a little freaky. He's not, I don't know what it is, but it's, it's, he's not, he's not, I don't know what it is, but he is. That is true. You think he's a robot? Be honest. You've been in behind the scenes. He could be a robot. No, it is actually hilarious.

And of course, it's almost like he's created to make people's heads explode because everything he does, you know, he eats fast food, he doesn't exercise. He's just kind of like, and he has unbelievable energy. And, you know, you think, how is this possible? That much I could say, I've never seen anything like it anywhere. Well, so you, when you put, Tell us about the book, because, I mean, you've obviously got through a hard time financially. Now you've got this amazing book.

I want people to know what they're getting with it. So the title is Trump Biography, How Biblical Principles Pave the Way to the American Presidency. Yes, and basically you've got to read the stories. These are behind-the-scenes stories. It's me as a fly on the wall explaining to people what I saw firsthand. And the other thing about it is I'm on tour now, besides with Diamond and Silk, but I'm doing events on my own, going to California. some of these events that I go to is just me there speaking 200, 300, sometimes 400 people are coming out to see me talk. And it's interesting, I'm just talking about the president.

He's not even there. And people are coming out to see me like they're going to the movie theaters. It's amazing. Well, yeah, we're experiencing a phenomenon. And if the media weren't so hostile to him, it would be dramatically different. Because we don't get to see, you know, the greatest hits of him. what he's doing. We only get to see every time he makes a mistake or something goes wrong. So it is interesting that he has tapped into something in America that you've seen it,

I've seen it. But if you're not watching, you know, the right channels or you're not, you're going to miss it because the New York Times and most of the mainstream media go dramatically out of their way not to cover the positive side. We're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to Gene Ho, his website, g-e-e-h-o, jean-ho.com, the book, Trumpography. Thank you for the joy and pain. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to the man behind the website, jeanho.com. His name is Gene Ho.

Gene, you're famous as a photographer, but it seems like you have branched out as a result of what happened with the Trump campaign. And suddenly you're a Christian. Okay, so did the rest of your family is your wife on board with your politics and faith? Like, what happened? Your life, you went to an earthquake. You know what? The one thing that I learned about it, and I'm telling you, my life as far as it was in the world, was exactly what you'd imagine. But once you leave Satan, Satan takes away everything that was his, but then God gives you everything that is gods.

And I tell you what, my family life during all of this, before this, was not that good. I mean, I've been married for 10 years. I even brought up divorce. I was this big hot shot photographer, right, doing all the stuff for Donald Trump. You know, all this stuff is going good. And then when all this stuff happened, we actually, during this time, my wife and I started reading the Bible together. Together. Together.

Well, at the same time, not concurrently. Was your wife raised in any kind of a Christian background? Yes, she was what you call a Christian, but she was a Christian in name only. You know, she was just a person that said, yes. Like Albin. Just a person that just went along with what it is, you know, go to church every once in a while, but she wasn't really in it. She started reading the Bible at the same time.

Because of your struggles. Yes, our struggles. Yes, it was bad. It was us going through it together. But now our family life is so much better. We travel around the country, me and my and our two smaller children, and we love it. I mean, if you could put two lies side by side, no comparison, the one with Jesus, way better. It's amazing because, you know, you rarely meet people who've come to faith recently.

Your faith, you know, you're obviously well into your adulthood here, and it laid in life, you hit this crisis. God comes into your life. That's, you know, a lot of people that doesn't happen. You know what I'm saying? It either happens early on or whatever. So it's God's mercy to allow you to go through this pain to find him. that happened to me. It happens to a lot of people. I think that's exactly it. It was basically it was the pain that I received from all of this going on. And that is the time in your life where you

need to draw closer to God. And I could have gone the opposite way. I could have gone further away. But, and I had chances to, like I said about this, I could have, I could have solved all my financial problems by saying, listen, I'm going to write this book about lies about Donald Trump, get paid millions and just cash out and go back to doing what I was doing. But decided not to. Yeah, you decided to tell the truth. Always a good policy. I think Jesus said that.

Seriously, though, it's beautiful that you get to travel with your wife and your little kids. And we're rediscovering our lives. Eric, I feel more alive today than I've ever been before. In my home where I live, not even a mile away, there's this beautiful. a lake. I lived there for 10 years, actually 15 years, never even thought, knew the lake was there because I never even took the time out of my life to just go ride bicycles with my children and explore and like, wow, we saw this lake. I've been living there 15 years, never knew there was a lake there. So you were kind of on the success train, and when the success train crashed,

you discovered God and your family and real life. You know what? And I'll be honest, I didn't choose it. I had, I was basically doing very well in life. It came crashing down. And thank God, he accepted me. Look, I love stories like this. I have a less dramatic version of it, but there's so many people that I've met over the years that the worst thing they went through ended up being the best thing that ever happened to them. And just imagine you could have continued your life the way it was, but God and His mercy allowed you to go through this, and here we are. You know, this is like another, it's another universe. You get to hang out with diamond and silk.

How cool is that? That is, I mean, people, sometimes people are more excited about diamond and silk than they are Trump. Well, come on. When I, someday when I get really big, I'm going to have them on this program. It's very tough to reach them. They're just a, they, they'll make a call for you. No, I mean, I've met them.

I don't know if they know me. I think they know my Donald, the cave. man books because we've corresponded on that. You probably don't even know that I wrote. I saw, I know about this guy. Come on. I wrote about this guy. Yeah, you could.

But they are, I'm trying to think where I met them, but they are so much fun. They're so cute. I mean, how do you not, they're just funny and cute and real. And Christians. And Christians, I've seen it. We were behind the stage. They're praying before every show that they do. Praying.

They obviously don't read Christianity today. Shame on them. You know, it's interesting, you mentioned that. I know that their father is a pastor, so they grew up in that world. And I keep noticing this, that Donald Trump surrounds himself with so many Christians. Mike Pompeo is an outspoken Christian. That's their secretary of state. Obviously, Vice President Pence very outspoken in his Christian faith. And more and more, around the president, you see these people of faith. The Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, profoundly outspoken Christian and on and on down the line. And a lot of the people who support him like Diamond and Silk and yourself are Christian. It's just interesting because it's not the narrative that you get from the mainstream media. And once again, it's the same thing I was telling you about, Eric, the mainstream media and the liberal are afraid of Donald Trump because he empowers. Yes, I know it is that Jesus is empowering us. But Donald Trump was the one who showed

us the way, hey, it's okay to be Christians and speak up for what you believe and stand up for the truth. Be adamant about standing up for the truth. Well, I mean, it's, again, there's a great irony that a man who obviously doesn't know the Bible particularly well and who hasn't lived his life in accordance with its principles in many ways has suddenly come to this place. And where you would write a book about him and you would say that in many of the things that he does in his life, he is, whether wittingly or unwittingly, embodying biblical principles. Again, you're not going to read that many places. And so I'm glad you write about it in your book.

When we come back, I want to talk to you just for a few more minutes, specifically about the biblical principles that paved the way for this man to become the president of the United States. and I want to find out about what you're doing in the future. But before we go to the break, Trumpography is the book, how biblical principles paved the way to the American presidency. Gene Ho, that's G-E-N-E-H-O-Geneho.com. He's the author. We'll be right back.

Hey, folks, it's the Eric Metaxas show. I'm talking to the author of Trumpography. It doesn't make you think of photography. It's supposed to Trumpography, which is a book by the Trump campaign photographer, Gene Ho. Gene, you say that Trumpography is how biblical principles paved the way to the American presidency. Give us one or two of what you mean in here. I'll do one quick one.

One of them I talk about Absalon, and I get it. Most people say, well, couldn't you be a bad guy? You know, whatever. But with Absalom, he made people feel like the greater of amongst them. I'll give you a really quick scenario. Backstage, I did the VIP photos. I tell you what, backstage there was a lot of people there, sometimes some celebrities. Donald Trump would walk into the room and he would.

beeline to the most important person in the room, and it wasn't to celebrities. It was always, perhaps, it was the men in uniform police officers that were there, walk into a room, skip everyone, go right to the first responders, and police shake all their hands first. When you know there's other celebrities, most people go into the room and they beeline towards the celebrity, Trump didn't do that. He made people feel comfortable, and he honored people around him. Again, I hear this. I've seen it, but this is not the media narrative. He seems to have learned this at the feet of his own dad because they would go on construction sites. And even though they were the builders, he was trained by his dad to respect and

honor the guys in the hard hats, the cops. You know, he seems to be like a blue collar billionaire. Yes, absolutely. He's been described that way. Michael Bloomberg, of course, is as white collar as it gets. But Trump seems to be a kind of blue collar billionaire. What are some other these things that you saw behind the scenes? You know, besides that, it was actually how he interacted with my own family. I mean, you know, people talk about him all the time as, oh, he's such a racist or whatever. I mean, my son is biracial, and he looked at my son, and he doted on my son like it was his own grandson. And it just, he told me, won me over with that. I mean, I was so just watching him behind the scenes and he didn't need to do that for me.

I mean, I was a photographer there and he was a tough boss to work for, very demanding. But at the end of the day, he knew how to separate it and he knew how to honor people, especially in front of their families. And how is he demanding? Because I would expect, I had a friend who worked for him and I've heard stories. How is he demanding as photographer, you know. He's not going to keep you on for anything. If you don't get the photos out on time, get the photos out fast, get the photos out good.

He doesn't mind calling you out and say, listen, this is not what I want. This is not good enough. And I heard it. And it was tough for me to hear sometimes. But that didn't matter. He expects the job to be done, and that's why he makes a great president. It is interesting because that's a true meritocracy, right? He just says, like, you know, I want this, I want this, I want this, otherwise, you're fired.

And it is interesting. It takes a certain personality to be able to pull that off and not be a nasty person or whatever. And as you were saying, you always hear stories about people, you know, whether it's Anna Wintour or whatever. Eventually, word gets out they're nasty or they're mean or whatever. There's other politicians. You hear these stories. And I find it interesting that so far everybody I've talked to who spent time with him behind the scenes has a good report. I just find that fascinating.

And it's just such a bizarre. It's all the same. Like if you hear my story, he's the same story that a lot of people that know him. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. So I just find that interesting, you know, because we're living in a weird world where you watch the media and you get a certain, you know, a version of things. We're out of time, but I am so thrilled we had the time. Gene Ho, your website is jeanho.com. People can find all kinds of stuff there.

Thanks for coming into the studio. And thanks for sharing your story. Just a wonderful story. Really great. Thank you, Eric. Very pleased to be here. I just want to remind you, we're doing a fundraiser for a. Angel Tree. Right now, what Angel Tree is doing is they're sending care packages to the families where

one of the parents is currently in prison. And for $200 in this care package, $150 is grocery gift cards. You can just imagine how this will bless them by giving to AngelTree. You go to metaxis talk.com. Metaxistalks.com. I'll give you the phone number 888, 288, 2.5.5.2.com. 206, 2793. I know there are lots of folks right now you can pick up the phone and give anything, folks.