The Eric Metaxas Show - George Carneal

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

George Carneal tells his story and discusses his book "From Queer To Christ"

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Ladies and gentlemen, we ask you now to count down from 10, silently, if you don't mind. And when you get to one, you'll hear one of the greatest voices on this or any other planet.

Three, two, one. Eric Matt Taxi! Hey there, folks, welcome to the program. Chris Heimes, listen, I just want to say some people do not watch videos of this. Yeah, that's true. So those people who are listening now via radio or podcast cannot see that I have a Trump spray on tan. They can't see that. And I'm glad they can't see that.

Yeah, I believe it's, I don't know, Cheeto Orange is the color. They also can't see. see that I'm wearing so much hair product because when my hair gets a little too long, I have to like glue it down. Yeah. Because this morning, I had a little crisis. I call up my barber, Angelo Spiotta. Yeah. Angelo Spiotta Salon.

If you come to New York and you want the greatest haircut ever, you go to Angelo at Spiota Salon. It's on 38th Street, S-P-I-O-T-A, right? This morning I called up to kind of find out, hey, I'm leaving for Europe. in a couple weeks, whatever. When is Angela? Angelo's in Europe. What? And I don't know if I'm going to be able to get a haircut.

This is a real problem for me. I've been going to him for 26 years. Yeah. And now as you've gotten older, your hair's gotten more unwieldy. It gets more and more difficult to cut. Yeah. All right. It's like a wild stallion.

Let's move on here. We have some important things to share. I'm sorry. I apologize, folks. But this is a Trump spray-on tan. I'm investing. You could meet up in Europe. He could catch your hair over there.

Maybe there's a... Hey, why not? Coordinate that. Hey. No, he's in Italy and I'm going to England and Greece. So anyway, okay, look, today on the program, in a couple of minutes, we have the man who made the Flynn documentary. We had General Flynn on last week.

We will have him on in the weeks ahead for sure. But today we're talking to Scott Weiper, the guy who made the film, who produced film about General Flynn. So this is going to be very exciting. In hour two, we have George Corneal. He wrote a book with a weird title, but it's interesting. It's from queer to Christ. Sounds like something we'd make up, except his story is real.

And any time I can talk to somebody who has come out of the gay lifestyle, and it is just amazing. So we talked to him yesterday, and I actually think parts of the conversation were very important. So that's an hour two today. I should mention before I get into some interesting stuff that I want to share with the group, I should remind folks if you are interested in homeschooling your kids or if you're interested in pulling your kids out of public school and finding a genuine Christ-centered K-12 education for your kids. the one place we are now recommending is herzog foundation.com.

They, we've gotten to know these folks, and they are all over this. It is spectacular. When people ask me what's happening in America, why I have hope, this would be one of the examples. The fact that somebody has funded the Herzog Foundation so that they can help Americans figure out how to homeschool their kids easily and get their, this is big stuff, folks. So when people say, what can I do? This is what you can do is you can get involved in homeschooling your kids or any of this stuff. Go to Herzog Foundation.com. I didn't want to forget to mention that.

Okay, so now we should mention that next week, next Tuesday, the 25th of June. Your birthday is next week, too. My birthday is the 27th of June, but don't mention it on the air. Okay. You can mention anything you want to mention, but don't mention that June 27th is. my birthday because I just, I don't want it to get out. So don't mention it on the air. Privately, we can talk about it. Like we can talk about it here, but, but I want to say that on the 25th, I am interviewing at Socrates in the city, R.FK Jr.

Wow. And how famous do you have to be so that you can just use your initials? Like, I'm not E.J.M. the first. I'm just Eric Metaxis, but he's R.FK. Jr. And RFK Jr, as we know, is running for President of the United States. I'm not going to vote for him. But I like him in many ways. I disagree with him on the issue of abortion and some other things. But I'm going to interview him at Socrates in the city here in New York on the 25th of June. That's next Tuesday.

Friends of mine, this morning a friend of mine, Bruce, who's been on the show, he says, hey, I'm thinking of coming. And I'm like, well, you better get your ticket because it's point. to sell out. There aren't many left. Yesterday I was on Newsmax in the middle of the day. And on Newsmax, I'm talking to their audience about this thing. So like a bunch of tickets sold yesterday. So we're getting close. If you're interested in being there, buy your ticket. Go to Socrates in the city.com. And I guess I should say that there are two tickets. They're VIP tickets where you get to meet him and hang out with him beforehand. And then there's regular tickets. there will not be like a dinner or anything afterward.

Well, there's a special dinner. There might be a... Actually, yeah, there's some special dinner, but I don't know how do people find that? I think if they're signed up for the newsletter, or the Socrates Newsletter, they'll get an email today. If you're interested in a very expensive special dinner, email me directly, go to my website,

Eric Mataxis.com. Actually, this brings up another thing that I often don't bring up in these opening segments. There are tons of people who listen to this program who are not signed up to a... our newsletter. You're going to get all these interviews, video interview, the video version of these interviews. You're going to get all kinds of other information that we just don't have time to get into. And on the video, you'll be able to see how much hair product I'm wearing.

You'll be able to see that I'm wearing a Trump spray tan, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. You'll be able to see all kinds of stuff. So you go to ericmataxis.com. But if you go to Socrates and the city.com, you can sign up for the RFK event next week. Now, if you cannot be in New York City, you can live stream it, but you have to be a member of Socrates Plus. I ask everybody who listens to this program to sign up for Socrates Plus because there's all kinds of stuff that we put there that, you know, we, there's no other way for you to see it. But the live streams, it's just, that's worth it alone doing the Socrates Plus. So that is June 25th. If you're interested, folks, please, like, jump on it.

Figure it out and jump on it. And back to the RFK thing for a minute. Some people are suggesting that if Trump wins second term, that he should appoint RF Jr. to run the NIH or the FDA or something like that. Well, that's what my hope is that he would appoint RFK Jr. to run something. But, I mean, Trump needs to appoint all of these, like, disturbing. figures to run the places that they've criticized because they know where the bodies are buried. That's why General Flynn, you know, about whom we'll be speaking in a moment, that's why they got

rid of him, the deep state, because he knew where the bodies were buried in the intelligence community. They had to get rid of him. So anyway, oh my gosh. All right, coming up this week, Charlie Kirk, in case anybody wants to know my opinion of Charlie Kirk, I don't think it could be higher. He is doing God's work in this nation. I love him. He's a friend. He's doing amazing stuff. I know he has a book out, but he's doing so much. Pray for Charlie because God is really using him, and I know he's in the enemy's crosshairs. Charlie Kirk will be my guest this week. Looking forward to that. Also, Candice Owens. I'm going to say, hey, Candice, what's with the Jew hatred, true or false? You probably won't say that because I won't allow it. But no, obviously. She's got a new podcast

I'm only joking about stuff because I believe I can joke about it because I just find people are so serious. Like as if that could be like a real issue seriously? I don't think so. But she has joined a cult called the Roman Catholic Church. We're going to be discussing that with her about her cult status. We're talking to Mike Roe. I'm pretty sure that we'll be hearing that this week. We got a lot of crazy guests.

There's a lot of other stuff I want to talk about. but I will have to do that after my conversation with Scott Weiper about General Flynn. And again, an hour two, an amazing story of a man who for over 20 years was in the gay lifestyle and managed to find freedom through Jesus Christ. It's extraordinary stuff. All right. So finally, let me say again, it's vital. that if you want tickets to the RFK Jr. event, that you get them as soon as possible.

Because one of these days, maybe tomorrow, I'm going to say, that's it. So we're getting close. So if you want one, go to Socratesandcity.com. And if you want to go to Oxford, I know there's still tickets available for Oxford, June, July 9th through 12th. And we'll be right back. Okay, I have never seen a discount this huge from balance of nature. and this discount is for a very limited time,

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Legacy pm.investments.com. Check it out. Hey, the folks. Welcome back. If you listen to this program, you know that I take very seriously the issue of people struggling what we now call same-sex attraction. It's a hard thing. It's very difficult for people to know what to do.

And the culture gives us mixed signals. The church increasingly gives us mixed signals. And they kind of act as though, you know what, there's no way out of this. You should accept it. This is how God made you, which is a lie. And so a few times on the program over the years, I've had people come on to tell their story of their journey through this difficulty into the joy of walking with God and walking away from the lifestyle that they really thought was somehow fatalistically their lot, which is not fatally anybody's lot. So today I speak to George Carniol, who has written a book called From Queer to Christ. George, welcome to the program, and thanks for being willing to share your story.

Thank you, Eric. Thank you for having me. Tell us this story. Now, the book is pretty new. Yes, it's been before a couple of years, but I just wanted to share my story in terms of helping LGBT individuals understand that they are being lied to, that they will never find peace in that lifestyle. and it really just goes into my journey of how I got into that lifestyle and what God had to do to get me out of that lifestyle.

My heart breaks really for people with same-sex attraction because the culture, I mean, the culture can lie in any number of ways. It can tell you you're evil, you're a bad person, which of course is not true, no matter what temptations anyone faces. God loves us and wants to heal us. Or the culture could tell you, hey, go with it, go for it, go with it, go with this temptation. It's not a temptation. It's a beautiful thing.

Go for it, which is a different kind of lie. And in your lifetime, I know in my lifetime, we've seen both lies. We've heard both lies. We're the church is sometimes complicit in being the voice of the devil and saying you're an evil person for this rather than you can get. healing. And now it's saying this, whatever this is, is delightful, which is equally the voice of the devil and confusing. So what is your story? You were the son, you are the son of a Baptist minister. So tell us your story. Where did you grow up? And how did you first experience this trial? Well, Eric, I grew up in the South. My father's a pastor and we've moved and lived through several

states in several states in the south. But growing up, you're right, there is a dilemma and you're given mixed messages. And for me, struggling with my faith and a same-sex attraction, they were both equally important to me. And the real dilemma for me was, was when I'm being told that you can, if you go and love someone, that you are displeasing God and risk his wrath, or you can please God, but then if he doesn't change your desires, then I was facing a life of loneliness. And this was really the dilemma for me. And when you have a culture, the LGBT community, it really is like a cult. And having spent 25 years of my life in that lifestyle, mostly in the LA club scene, very liberal, and you're just fed a bunch of nonsense. And it took me so long, and even through

the liberal theologians who were lying and twisting the truth of God's word, Eric, it was such a battle to find out the truth. I didn't really know what to believe anymore. And it really took some time and by the grace of God, his patience with me to help deprogram me of those lies of the activists and of the liberal theologians. And not only that, Hollywood and the liberal media, they're all lying. It's a very destructive and dangerous lifestyle. And there are so many pitfalls in that life. While I do discuss this in my book, I'm not X-rated, but I don't sugarcoat it. So I really just kind of dismantle all of the lies. I discuss all of those talking points. And it just really took some time, but by the grace of God, he helped me to see the truth and I eventually died out of that

lifestyle. You know, I often have said that the cruelest thing you can do to a young man who is in church, who is who is experiencing these strange feelings of attraction to the same sex is to tell that young man something that's confusing or worse than that. to affirm him in that rather than say, this is not who you are. That lie, that's at the heart of all these lies that we're being told, no, no, no, that is who you are. And I think to myself, that breaks down logically in two seconds. You know, if a man or a woman who's married has an attraction to somebody who is not his or her spouse, you don't say,

that is who you are. You need to follow that attraction. You say, wait a minute, no, that attraction is bad. You need to do something about that. You can have the attraction, but don't affirm yourself in it. Don't say I have to follow this attraction. That's one of the central lies that has been spewed out in the culture, but often in the church now, that this is who you are and that you can only be free

if you follow this attraction. It's an extraordinary. lie and it's out there. And I think a lot of times, let's be honest, George, it's a lot of times people think they're being compassionate. I mean, they really think, look, this is what compassion looks like. But it's a Freudian lie. It's this idea that we're defined by our sexual impulses, which is just nonsense. But how did you, how did you experience this? And it was as you're growing up in the church, what were you thinking initially as a young man? Well, Eric, the dilemma for me was this, with my father being a pastor, I couldn't talk to him about it.

Celebrities weren't coming out. This was not something you were proud of. There was a lot of shame attached to it. So I had a real disconnect with my father. And then I would go to school where I was bullied and rejected by my male peers. So I was really lacking in male bonding. And then when I was around Christians who really didn't have the heart of Christ, who were talking about the faggots and, you know, God created AIDS to kill the fags and they're going to hell,

this really stole any hope I had. And so, Eric, where I, when I walked into a gay bar at 18, and it was the first time that I had guys treating me differently, it wasn't the right kind of attention I needed. But at that time, I just soaked it up because I was so desperate for male bonding. And I was also in an environment where I was no longer being bullied and assaulted. And I felt safe. And yes, it felt good for the first two or three years. But within about a three-year period, I was so depressed and suicidal. I was battling drugs and alcohol.

I had a sex addiction. I had turned to prostitution. I eventually attempted suicide. And it would still be another 22 years before God would fully get me out of that life. But Eric, it was so frustrating because in the church, when I and so many other gay men would go to pastors and tell them we're struggling. There were pastors who were telling gay men, well, we don't deal with that and your own, your own, castrate yourself or go kill yourself. This is the kind of hateful rhetoric from some of these pastors. And you have the pastors who rail against this, but they don't want to lift a finger to try to understand the issue to help those of us who are walking out of that lifestyle because what they don't understand is the LGBT community will turn on you the minute you walk away from that and give your life to Christ.

So I was in between these two worlds that they weren't accepting me. And even more puzzling was decades ago when I so desperately wanted help getting out of that life. and I was condemned and judged and ridiculed and ostracized. Now I go back into the churches and I say, this is what God has done for me. Now the church is so compromised. They're like, no, no, no, we believe you're born that way. Love is love. And I'm rejected again.

Eric, it's kind of comical in a sad way. Well, I mean, again, I think it's important to have these conversations so that people understand the issue. Because I really do think that, you know, those. who push same-sex attraction as somehow a good thing or normal, they do it mostly out of compassion because they don't see an alternative. And you can understand that, right? In other words, what you just described, that many churches, they don't know where to go with this. They don't know what to do with this. It just makes them uncomfortable. And so they're not saying to somebody struggling with this, we know how to help you or we have some ideas about how to help you.

They just avoid it. Or they participate, as we said, with this worldly view of bullying. You know, in other words, we can make both kinds of mistakes. And so I've heard this story over and over of people who just thought, well, I've got no option. So I'm going to go into the arms of those who will welcome me and who will tell me I'm not a bad person. And of course, that's not exactly the solution either. So what happened to you? you know, while you were in L.A. during those years.

We've just got 30 seconds in this segment. But just start us on this conversation of your journey. It was really an awakening after searching so desperately for God through other religions because I had told God I hated him. I hated Christians. I was so hurt and damaged. But it was really a process having gone through the occult and New Age teachings and Hinduism that God started to slowly give me some.

dissatisfaction and the awakening started to begin, and I can address that on the other end, if you would like. Yeah. Well, folks, I'm talking to George Carnial. The book is from queer to Christ. It's really important that we have these conversations, that we offer hope to people who are struggling with this. God loves you, and he wants to bring healing, and he wants to lead you away from living that lifestyle. Very important. We'll be right back. I have a great movie suggestion for you, full of bravery, patriotism, and hope. It's the new Kevin Costner film, Horizon and American saga, the epic tale of how the West was won. Horizon dives right into the heart of our nation when thousands of courageous men and women sacrificed everything

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Neutrametics. com use the code eric for 15% off welcome back talking to george carniall the book is from queer to christ that kind of says it all george uh it's a bold title from queer to christ um but so you like many people so you you you went to the gay lifestyle but you're still longing for god you're still trying to figure out where do i go because you don't think like you know a running away from god is the answer but you're looking for a different kind of God, different kind of spirituality. You say you got involved in occultic stuff, new age stuff. I mean, you know, if the church is rejecting you, you're going to look in other places.

And that sounds like exactly what happened to you. Correct. You know, Eric, this is the blessing. Even when we stray, and I say this to parents, especially who have LGBT children, this is nothing that God can't handle. You have the power because of prayer. And even as I was running from God, in 25 years in that life, life wasn't in church.

God was still working on me. He wasn't going to let me go and I just didn't have any peace. And I will tell you briefly, one night I was going into a gay bar and I was with some friends and God just turned the noise down of everything around me. And I heard him clearly saying in my ear, if you were to die tonight, would you go to hell? And I knew it was God. And I just dismissed his voice because I was so hurt and angry. I really wanted a relationship with God, but I could not understand that he would want a

relationship with me and that he loved me and that Jesus could fill that void. Sadly, it was going to take a lot of work and a lot of God really being patient to help me become disillusioned with the other world religions before he started to get me back on track. And it wasn't until I was in a CD bar in Hollywood where I was sitting and I've said this often where I saw this old man because a lot of people don't understand that in the gay community, once you lose your youth, you're discarded like a dirty dishrag. It's a very useful. youth-oriented sex-obsessed culture. So once you get old and your looks fade and your body falls apart, nobody wants you.

And there was this one guy I would always see in the bar and my heart would break for him. And it was if God was impressing upon me and my spirit, if this is the path you want to take, here's the end of the road for you. And Eric, that was really the turning point for me. And I walked away from that life. And I sadly got involved in a Baptist church in L.A. that was very progressive and liberal that was pushing this agenda. But God still wasn't giving me any peace.

And after about three more years of just agony and heartbreak, I eventually got the answer I wanted. And I just said to God, if you will give me peace about this, if it's okay to be gay, I would hope that you would put a good Christian man in my life and I'll have someone to grow old with. And I want to serve you, Lord. But if it is wrong under all circumstances and you will let me know, I will still follow you. And he gave me the answer. I've been out of that lifestyle for 16 years, and I have followed him ever since. Well, I mean, I know so many people that were in the lifestyle that have come out of the lifestyle.

Some of them have been healed of same-sex attraction. Others have not. And that's part of the issue, too. I think some people act like, well, I have this attraction. What am I supposed to do? And so I think the answer is a little bit complicated, right? I mean, some people can find healing. Some people, it's harder to find that.

What was your journey in that? Because I think that there are many Christians who they want to find a church that will affirm them in their same-sex attraction. And in this day and age, there are plenty that will do that. It's a great question, Eric. I get tired of the gay men who come at me and say, oh, you're still gay and your own tender and you're just secretly doing it. You know, they've always got something to say. They can't be happy for anyone who just chooses, you know, my body, my choice. It was my body and my choice to leave that lifestyle.

I wasn't happy. I wanted to follow Christ. I don't get any support for that. But for me, they just haven't had enough misery. My peace of mind was so important to me that I diligently stopped and searched for answers and prayed to God. And what happens is that for some, their same-sex attraction does. change. For others, it doesn't.

Where God worked in my life is that this need or this grip to need to sleep with men has left me because I, through counseling and through the work of the Holy Spirit, have received a lot of healing from my childhood wounds and trauma, rejection, and shame, which is what so many go through in that lifestyle. They're broken individuals. If they will truly just turn their lives over to Christ and let the Holy Spirit work, healing and wholeness will come. If at some point the Lord wants me to be with a woman, he'll be.

bring her into my life. But it's not something that I have to have. I really enjoy serving the Lord and doing the work that I'm doing now. And the LGBT community needs to know there is more to life than sex and sexuality. There is actually a life of peace and wholeness that you can find following Christ. He tells us to pick up the cross and follow him. And that's what I did. And I can tell you 25 years I devoted to that life and I had no peace, never had any peace. I walked away from at all gave my life to Christ and God gave me not only peace of mind when I was depressed and suicidal all of the time, but I knew he had that I had made peace with him and he gave me peace within. And it's just something you can't put a dollar value on. And all I can do is just give them the

truth. But what they do with it is between them and God. Well, again, this is the thing. This is complicated. And I think that, you know, we live in a culture where people want to simplify everything. They really do a grave injustice to the subject. I mean, there are people, many, many same-sex attracted men who have been sexually abused by another man early on. This sexualizes them way before that's supposed to happen and pushes them in a certain direction. And then they say, well, this is who I am. And you think, well, no, in your case, it's a result of you being abused by someone. That you hear this over and over and over again.

That's not only the way that it happens, but there's all kinds of factors that play in. We have to be honest about that it's complex, but that there is a way out. You don't need to be consigned to this, as though it's your fatalistic lot. And so, folks, we'll be right back talking to George Carnial. The book is from queer to Christ.

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Welcome back talking to George Carniol. George, am I pronouncing that correctly? Forgive me. I didn't even ask. It's fine. Very good, Eric. I've been called everything else.

No worries. The book is from queer to Christ. And yeah, I was just saying that it's complicated. In other words, you know, every human being is different. And some people, you know,

have, you know, attraction to both sexes. Some people have been abused as kids, and that leads them a certain direction. It's a complicated thing, and we act as though, oh, it's so simple. I mean, I think of my literary hero, John Cheever, who was clearly bisexual in his attractions, but more and more, he was kind of pushed toward, oh, you're gay, you're gay. Well, if you're gay, well, why are you attracted to women? You know, in other words, people come up with these ideas that are not reality-based,

and they're ideological trends that the culture follows. And so this is the trend that we've been hearing over and over and over. If you have a flicker of same sex attraction, oh, that means you're gay, whatever the heck that means, and it means you've got to follow that path. And you think, why? And also this issue of loneliness, I mean, there are plenty people who are attracted to the opposite sex who don't find a mate. And so they don't have the kind of relationship. maybe that they're longing for, but that's part of the human story, that not everybody has to be

matched up in a relationship. That's part of the lie that contributes here, is that we all have to be sexually fulfilled. We all have to have a partner or way. You know, you kind of think there are many, many heroes in history who haven't had that. I think of all the saints. I think of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who didn't have that. And so that lie, that this is, a must for everybody and you've got to find someone and if you don't you're going to be horribly lonely that that's part of the lie that forces people I think into moving along the lines that you initially were in your life before you found freedom right Eric great point and for me I would tell everyone even if you had love and a lot of people around you that doesn't mean you may

not outlive all of them at the end of the day God has to be more than a enough. And by the grace of God, he has really taught me how to lean in on him and draw close to him or him drawing close to me. And I have learned to just lean on him because people will fail you, they'll let you down, they come in and out of your life. God has to be more than enough. And I just wish the LGBT individuals would understand there's so much more to life than sex. There is an eternity, the importance of coming to know Christ, because there are two destinations heaven and hell. A lot of people don't want to talk about it. But it's something that I have had to share with my LGBT friends because I do love and care about them. And Eric, the thing that I would most want to say to your audience, especially to the Christians who support this woke agenda, it may seem to you like you're doing the right thing by affirming them.

But what you don't understand is that once they go into that world, you have no idea what the reality of that lifestyle is like, how diverse. how dangerous, how destructive it is. There are so many addictions and people struggling with so many issues because to search for something that you're never going to find in that world that can only be found in Christ, you're pushing them into a very dangerous world. You have no idea what the reality of that lifestyle is like. I do go into it in my book and there are plenty of other ex-LGB individuals who are sounding the alarm.

Listen to our stories. Stop affirming this. The most loving thing you can do is tell them the truth of God's word. love. And I'm so thankful that I had Christians in my life who did that and who weren't woke, but loved me enough to tell me the truth. And I've been able to break free from that bondage. Well, you know, and even for those, I mean, I think one of the ways that people deal with this now is they try to make it, you know, like with the advent of so-called same-sex marriage, like, oh, you can have this, you know, vanilla lifestyle. You're going to be just like your neighbors,

you know, Bob and Sally, except, you know, you're Steve and Dave. But it's, you can have this. You know, the same thing and you're going to grow old together. And it's like, look, folks, it's still not God's plan. It's still wrong, you know, even if you're not in these clubs doing drugs. And even if you don't go in that direction, it's still wrong. It's still not God's plan for you. And we have to be clear about that. And we want to say it lovingly. But I think we have to say it that this is not, this is not God's plan. And any more than it would be, somebody is struggling in marriage, a man and his wife are struggling in marriage where you'd say, well, obviously, you're not supposed to be together. You know, find somebody else. No, that's not

what we say as Christians. As Christians, we say, no, God has put you together. You need to love each other. You need to work on it. And it may never be perfect, but that's okay. This is not about finding bliss and perfection at any cost. It's about, you know, it's about carrying your cross in and out of relationships. And again, this is the hard stuff that you don't hear Christians talk about so much. It's not fashionable in the world in which we live to talk about that, to talk about sacrifice, to talk about denial. And it's obviously something that you've come to terms with.

Correct. And God has given me peace with it. Eric, I'm going to tell you, just from what I was in to where I am now, years ago, I would have looked at my life now and thought, what a boring life. but Eric, the peace of mind. I'm telling you, you can't put a dollar sign on it. And my only regret is that I didn't leave that lifestyle 10, 15 years earlier. It's just sad that it took me some time.

But I'm grateful that God was patient and with me and brought me to where I am today. And it has well been worth it. Well, again, you know, there are very few churches that can deal with this honestly and that can say, yes, you should avoid. this lifestyle. This is not God's will for you. And we want to help you deal with that. Usually the way churches help people to deal with that can itself be wrong. And so are there any ministries that you can think of that you would recommend to people?

Yes. If they'll go to my website, it's George Carnell, C-A-R-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-A-L.com. On page two, you'll see a lot of information and resources. just keep scrolling. Don't be overwhelmed with all of the information, but I expose a lot of the stuff that people aren't aware of. I mean, you can find more information on the book as well. But Eric, I want to say this, to you Christians,

if you're shy about witnessing to LGBT individuals because you don't want to stir up that hornet's nest, what I did was when I wrote the book, I addressed Sodom and Gamora, I address hell, I address the, I give the plan of salvation, the gospel. I take all of the talking points of the LGBT activists and the liberal theologians, and I debunk it.

And there's a prayer of salvation in there for him as well. I've done the work. All you have to do is give them the book. And that's what I did to all of my LGBT friends. We've got a final segment coming up, folks. The website is George Carniel, C-A-R-N-E-A-L.com. George Carnail. The book is from queer to Christ.

We'll be right back. Welcome back. We're talking to George Carneal. You can go to his website, George Carnail. It's C-A-R-N-E-A-L.com for resources. George, you know, you've been saying it, this is a hard thing for people. And they don't know where to turn. And I've had a number of folks like you on this program to show people that, no,

there are plenty stories of people who've gotten free of this lifestyle, who have peace, who found God. And I think part of the problem in the culture is that you don't hear those stories. You hear all the other stories, every other kind of story, but this kind of story, one does not hear. What was your first inkling that there was a way out of this lifestyle for you? I didn't know that there was a way, quite honestly, Eric. I was just so depressed, and it was basically either attempt suicide or try it again or give my life to Christ and give him a chance. And I decided to give Jesus a chance again.

And I'm so glad I chose that route because I was just so miserable. I'm telling you, I thought about suicide as much as I thought about what am I going to wear today. I was breaking down all of the time. I just had no peace. I was so tormented. I know I was dealing with a lot of spiritual warfare, but God was patient and gracious. That's what I would say.

Well, again, this is something that, you know, if you're only paying attention to the cultural cues. The culture tells you there is no way out of this. This is who you are. And I just think, you know, that's crazy. It's not true. For some people, it's more of a struggle than for others, but this idea that you must accept this, that this is who you are, that's simply not biblical. And you know what? We rarely talk about it, but it just simply makes no biological sense. In other words, the idea, men are obviously created a certain way physically, a women are created a certain way physically. It's rather obvious that it's God's intention, that it's nature's intention, that men and women are created for each other to create life. And so the idea that two men or two women could be mates in a similar way, it doesn't make any sense.

And people rarely talk about that. That it simply makes no sense. What is this? I mean, you have to ask that question, what is this? This doesn't seem like it could be God's plan or even the plan of nature. what is going on here? People are not willing to address that. Eric, may I say the problem is

when the gay men reach out to me and they're so desperate to get out of that lifestyle and tell me how miserable they are, the social media platforms are silencing our stories. And what I find so hypocritical is someone like Oprah who's always talking about your aha moment. When has she ever interviewed

an ex-transgender or ex-gay or lesbian to hear our side of the story to give a different narrative? the mainstream media platforms will not touch our stories because it goes against the narrative. It's very frustrating. So I'm grateful to you for giving me a platform. Well, I mean, it's exactly why I do this show. From the beginning, it's been about eight years now.

I've said, I want to tell the stories that you're not going to hear anywhere else. You're not going to hear this on Fox News, ladies and gentlemen. Have you noticed that? No. You're not going to hear this. These stories need to be told, just like we need to hear the stories of women who had an abortion and who were deeply wounded and regretted it profoundly. You never hear those stories.

These stories need to be told. And so, George, I'm glad that you're willing not just to tell your story here, but to write a book about it. And I want to say, folks, there are a number of books on these kinds of subjects. There are a number of resources you can find. Today, of course, we're talking to George Carniall. He has many resources at his website, georgecarneal.com, C-A-R-N-E-A-L-G-Gorcharnial.com.

I ask you to visit the website and to see for yourself and to get a copy of the book from queer to Christ. George, it's really heroic of you to be willing to talk about this to write the book. Congratulations. God bless you. I know that God is using you to lead others to freedom, many of whom don't even know that that's possible for them. So thank you very much.

Folks, get a copy of from Queer to Christ and visit george carnial.com. George Carnial, thank you, my friend. Thank you. All praise, honor, and glory to the good Lord above. Amen.