The Eric Metaxas Show - George Carneal (Encore)

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

George Carneal tells his story and discusses his book "From Queer To Christ"

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. It's the show featuring Go-Go-Go the chimp. Nothing like a chimp to liven up the radio show. Easy work. Go-go, go, go. No, go, go. Folks, welcome to Hour 2. Yes, it's Hour 2. And I right now have the joy of speaking with Joel Berry.

He's the managing editor of the Babylon B, which is a fake newspaper. It's not true. It's parody. It's parody, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. Hey, Snopes. It's parody. It's Joe Barry, welcome.

Oh, thanks for having me. It's good to be back. Look, now what you said there, that was serious. That was real. That was real. That was genuine excitement and emotion that you've. felt for me right there. You're the managing editor of the Babylon B, but what we're going to talk about right now is something that I've only just heard about. Why don't I let you explain it? Megan Basham, whom we love, is involved in this. But what is this? What are we talking about right now? Yeah, so this is a new project that I've been working on with Megan Basham, with another pastor friend of my name, Stephen Whitlow. We've been kind of working on this for a little over a year now. And this started with a conversation. I had with Stephen about a year ago. He's a local pastor. He's been pastoring a church for about a

decade here in Ohio. Excuse me. Hold on a second. I know Stephen Whitlow. I have spoken at his church. Ladies and gentlemen, he's one of the good guys. He's in Ohio. He's a big deal, Stephen Whitlow. I didn't know he was involved with this, although now it kind of makes sense to me. But he is absolutely one of the good guys. Obviously, Megan Basham is one of the good guys. So you guys, guys are working on a project called Clear Truth Media. Is that the title? Yes. And so it's going to go live on July 1st. And what it is is what we did, we collected the best and brightest that we could. It's a collection of writers, podcasters, pastors, pastors, teachers, cultural critics, all who have kind of united behind this cause to build something new in the Christian media space.

And there's a desperate need for it. What kind of happened was a year ago, Stephen and I were talking. We were catching up on what's happened over the last 10 years. And I think a lot of Christians have had similar conversations like, okay, how many of our friends are still Christian? Oh, none of them. Okay. Remember this pastor that went woke? Remember this magazine that went woke?

We've all kind of watched as evangelicalism has just been completely blown up in the last eight years. We see what... So Christianity today, Christianity today, we're going to be. went to hell. I hope nobody bothers to read Christianity today anymore under the quote-unquote leadership of Russell Moore. Heartbreaking, but true. The gospel coalition has gone very, very wobbly. Their review of my book, Letter to the American Church, is almost comedic. They basically, they had to say a couple of nice things, but then they got to the main point, I wasn't tough enough on all of the Christian nationalists trying to take over the American church. That was, that was

You're like, okay, that's like saying to Hitler, like, no, saying to Germans, like, yeah, yeah, Hitler's bad, but what about those Bolsheviks? You're like, Hitler has crushed them. They're in prison. You really want to talk about the Bolshevik, like, they're the problem. So the gospel coalition, when they reviewed my book, and that's when I thought, wow, what happened to the gospel coalition? I used to think that they were, you know, on the same page, that they were the kind of Christians

that I would agree with, like actually. Christian. So is clear truth media, which, you know, in case you didn't know, it's already July. So you're telling me that the website is up, but you're telling me, I guess my question is clear truth media, this is kind of an alternative to the now broken gospel coalition. In a sense, yeah. What happened was during this conversation Stephen and I had, we kind of were asking ourselves, what do, you know, Christians who are conservative, who say, still believe the Bible, who still care about, you know, saving America. What, what do they have? There's really nothing for them out there anymore. And what we kind of laughed about was they have

the Babylon B. You're like American evangelicals, the Babylon B kind of became this de facto hub for Christians who still cared about truth and still believed in standing up against the spirit of the age and the lives of the culture from our media and from politicians. the Babylon B kind of became that new hub of fellowship for so many Christians. And we thought, well, that's kind of funny that the Babylon B ended up being that through our, you know, just telling funny jokes and fake news. But we feel like we need something more than that. We need something more substantive. We need a place where Christians can go and get good content, good cultural critique, good Bible studies and sermons that they can trust that they know aren't going to be woke, that they aren't going to be carrying the water for, you know,

the regime. And we put a lot of guardrails in place. One of the big things that we're focused on, you know, moving forward is guarding against leftward drift. We don't want to become another gospel coalition. We don't want to become another Christianity today. And so we have accountability in place. We want to constantly be reevaluating and, and examining ourselves to make sure, okay, wokeness, okay, wokeness is gone. What is the new lie that we're facing now? You know, what is the new lie that the spirit of the age is telling us? And how do we need to be addressing this?

So we want to be nimble. We want to be, you know, constantly pivoting where we need to, to basically speak clear truth in a culture that's hostile to the truth. Okay, so if you have to sum it up, first of all, the website is clear truthmedia.com. Yes. Yep. It's very important in future interviews to mention that. over and over.

Let me give you a little tip. As an old pro, you want to say cleartruthmedia.com, cleartruthmedia.com. Folks, check it out, cleartruthmedia.com. So at cleartruthmedia.com, this is aimed,

Joel Berry, you're one of the founders of this. This is aimed at- Cleartruthmedia.com, yes. Cleartruthmedia.com. aimed at Christians who are looking for truth about the issues

with regard to the faith and all this stuff that they might have found 10 years ago or 20 years ago, I don't know, whenever they started the gospel coalition. Yes. Yeah, we want Christians to know that they're not alone. And I feel like so many Bible-believing Christians today feel like they're alone because they're gaslit by the media. They're gaslit by, you know, what we call Big Eva, you know, the evangelical establishment.

And we want to provide encouragement and exhortation for the church that, you know, the majority Church that still, you know, believes the fundamentals of God's word and believes that it really actually should have an impact in the world today, in how we conduct our politics. We're not, you know, we're not like David French, where we kind of like lock our orthodoxy in a little ivory tower over here, and it doesn't have anything to say about the way we conduct ourselves in the world. We believe in activism. We believe in being patriotic Americans. We believe that we've been given an incredible birthright through the Christian founding of this nation, that it is our responsibility as Christians, you know, who are called to be salt and light,

to protect and fight for. And there are too many Christians, too many evangelicals and leadership are, they find that icky. They're embarrassed to talk about that. They're embarrassed to speak that way. And we know that most of the church, the layperson, is not. And we want to serve those people. we want to give them something somewhere to go and a place to fellowship and connect with other

believers and hopefully be emboldened. You know, the church, you know, a lot of, honestly, a lot of what Clear Truth Media is, it's an answer to your book, Eric, the letter to the American church and calling the church to stand up and be bold. I got tired of, you know, going from church to church. I was a pro-life activist for a while. it was like pulling teeth to get pastors to do any kind of activism in the pro-life movement. They were so skittish and so scared to do it.

Well, the church needs to be emboldened. The church needs to start standing up. This is our job as followers of Christ to speak up against injustice, to speak up against evil, to speak truth in the fog of lies that we're all swimming in. And so I think that, you know, the church is primed for that. The church is ready. And we just kind of want to give one more tool for the church to, you know, it will hopefully emboldened everybody.

I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, Stephen Whitlow, Joel Berry, Megan Basham, three heroes, thrilled that you guys have created this. Go to cleartruthmedia.com. Just check it out. Cleartruthmedia.com. It is important that we know what's going on. And let me put in a plug for my new book,

religionist Christianity, where I talk about this stuff, we're in a war. We need to understand what is at stake in how the church has been failing and how we need to be a part of church, a part of the church not failing on these issues. Joel Berry, God bless you. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Eric. Okay, I have never seen a discount this huge from Balance of Nature, and this discount is for a very limited time. So today is the day to order it. Look, if you've listened to me for any length of time, you've heard me rave about Balance of Nature's amazing fruits and veggie supplements. You've heard their customers rave about how much they love Balance of Nature and how good it makes them feel. If you've been on the fence about ordering,

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It's very difficult for people to know what to do. And the culture gives us mixed signals. The church increasingly gives us mixed signals. And they kind of act as though, you know what, there's no way out of this. You should accept it. This is how God made you, which is a lie. And so a few times on the program over the years, I've had people come on to tell their story of their journey through this difficulty

into the joy of walking with God and walking away from the lifestyle that they really thought was somehow fatalistically their lot, but which is not fatally anybody's lot. So today I speak to George Carniol, who has written a book called From Queer to Christ. George, welcome to the program and thanks for being willing to share your story. Thank you, Eric. Thank you for having me. Tell us this story. is pretty new.

Yes, it's been up before a couple of years, but I just wanted to share my story in terms of helping LGBT individuals understand that they are being lied to, that they will never find peace in that lifestyle. And it really just goes into my journey of how I got into that lifestyle and what God had to do to get me out of that lifestyle. I, my heart breaks really for people with same-sex attraction, because, you know, because the culture, I mean, the culture can lie in any number of ways. It can tell you you're evil. You're a bad person, which of course is not true, no matter what temptations anyone faces.

God loves us and wants to heal us. Or the culture could tell you, hey, go with it. Go for it. Go with it. Go with this temptation. It's not a temptation. It's a beautiful thing. Go for it. which is a different kind of lie. And in your lifetime, I know in my lifetime, we've seen both lies. We've heard both lies. Where the church is sometimes complicit in being the voice of the devil and saying you're an evil person for this rather than you can get healing. And now it's saying this, whatever this is, is delightful, which is equally the voice of the devil and confusing.

So what is your story? You are the son of a Baptist minister. So tell us your story. Where did you grow up? And how did you first experience this trial? Well, Eric, I grew up in the South. My father's a pastor, and we've moved and lived through several states in several states in the South. But growing up, you're right, there is a dilemma and you're given mixed messages.

And for me, struggling with my faith and a same-sex attraction, they were both equally important to me. And the real dilemma for me was when I'm being told that you can, if you go and love someone, that you are displeasing God and risk his wrath, or you can please God. But then if he doesn't change your desires, then I was facing a life of loneliness. And this was really the dilemma for me. And when you have a culture, the LGBT community, it really is like a cult. And having spent 25 years of my life in that lifestyle, mostly in the LA club scene, very liberal. and you're just fed a bunch of nonsense. And it took me so long, and even through the liberal theologians who were lying and twisting the truth of God's word,

Eric, it was such a battle to find out the truth. I didn't really know what to believe anymore. And it really took some time, and by the grace of God, his patience with me, to help deprogram me of those lies, of the activists and of the liberal theologians. And not only that, Hollywood and the liberal media, they're all lying. It's a very destructive and dangerous lifestyle, and there are so many pitfalls in that life. While I do discuss this in my book, I'm not X-rated, but I don't sugarcoat it. So I really just kind of dismantle all of the lies. I discuss all of those talking points, and it just really took some time, but by the grace of God,

he helped me to see the truth, and I eventually got out of that lifestyle. You know, I often have said that the cruelest thing you can do to a young man who is in church, who is experiencing these strange feelings of attraction to the same sex, is to tell that young man something that's confusing or worse than that, to affirm him in that rather than say, this is not. not who you are. That lie, that's at the heart of all these lies that we're being told, no, no, no, that is who you are. And I think to myself, that breaks down logically in two seconds. You know, if a man or a woman who's married has an attraction to somebody who is not his or her spouse, you don't say that is who you are. You need to follow that attraction. You say, wait a minute,

No, that attraction is bad. You need to do something about that. You can have the attraction, but don't affirm yourself in it. Don't say I have to follow this attraction. That's one of the central lies that has been spewed out in the culture, but often in the church now, that this is who you are and that you can only be free if you follow this attraction. It's an extraordinary lie, and it's out there. And I think a lot of times, let's be honest, George, it's a lot of times people think they're being compassionate. I mean, they really think, look, this is what compassion looks like.

But it's a Freudian lie. It's this idea that we're defined by our sexual impulses, which is just nonsense. But how did you experience this? And it was as you're growing up in the church, what were you thinking initially as a young man? Well, Eric, the dilemma for me was this. With my father being a pastor, I couldn't talk to him. about it. Celebrities weren't coming out. This was not something you were proud of. There was a lot of shame attached to it. So I had a very, a real disconnect with my father. And then I would go to

school where I was bullied and rejected by my male peers. So I was really lacking in male bonding. And then when I was around Christians who really didn't have the heart of Christ, who were talking about the faggots and, you know, God created AIDS to kill the fags and they're going to hell. This really stole any hope I had. And so, Eric, where I, when I walked into a gay bar at 18. And it was the first time that I had guys treating me differently. It wasn't the right kind of attention I needed. But at that time, I just soaked it up because I was so desperate for male bonding.

And I was also in an environment where I was no longer being bullied and assaulted. And I felt safe. And yes, it felt good for the first two or three years. But within about a three year period, I was so depressed and suicidal. I was battling drugs and alcohol. I had a sex addiction. I had turned a prostitution. I eventually attempted suicide, and it would still be another 22 years before God would fully get me out of that life.

But Eric, it was so frustrating because in the church, when I and so many other gay men would go to pastors and tell them we're struggling, there were pastors who were telling gay men, well, we don't deal with that and your own, your own, castrate yourself or go kill yourself. This is the kind of hateful rhetoric from some of these pastors, and you have the pastors who rail against this, but they don't want to lift a finger to try to understand the. issue to help those of us who are walking out of that lifestyle because what they don't understand is the LGBT community will turn on you the minute you walk away from that and give your life to Christ. So I was in between these two worlds that they weren't accepting me. And even more puzzling was decades ago when I so desperately wanted help getting out of that life.

And I was condemned and judged and ridiculed and ostracized. Now I go back into the churches and I say, this is what God has done for me. now the church is so compromised. They're like, no, no, no, we believe you're born that way. Love is love. And I'm rejected again. Eric, it's kind of comical in a sad way. Well, I mean, again, I think it's important to have these conversations so that people understand the issue.

Because I really do think that, you know, those who push same-sex attraction as somehow a good thing or normal, they do it mostly out of compassion because they don't see. see an alternative. And you can understand that, right? In other words, what you've just described, that many churches, they don't know where to go with this. They don't know what to do with this. It just makes them uncomfortable.

And so they're not saying to somebody struggling with this, we know how to help you or we have some ideas about how to help you. They just avoid it. Or they participate, as we said, with this worldly view of bullying. You know, in other words, it's we can make both kinds of mistakes. And so I've heard this story over and over of people who just thought, well, I've got no option. So I'm going to go into the arms of those who will welcome me and who will tell me I'm not a bad person. And of course, that's not exactly the solution either.

So what happened to you, you know, while you were in L.A. during those years? We just got 30 seconds in this segment. just start us on this conversation of your journey. It was really an awakening after searching so desperately for God through other religions because I had told God I hated him. I hated Christians. I was so hurt and damaged. But it was really a process having gone through the occult and New Age teachings and Hinduism

that God started to slowly give me some dissatisfaction. And the awakening started to begin. And I can address that on the other end, if you would like. Yeah. Well, folks, I'm talking to George Carnial. The book is from queer to Christ. It's really important that we have these conversations that we offer hope to people who are struggling with this. God loves you and he wants to bring healing and he wants to lead you away from living that lifestyle. Very important. We'll be right back. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only trust, they're the only one. Glenn and the team have been great supporters of this show, which is why I am proud to partner with them. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage, giving you the

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Go to Nutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Neutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com use the code Eric for 15% off. Welcome back talking to George Carni-L. The book is from queer to Christ. That kind of says it all, Joel.

George. It's a bold title from queer to Christ. But so you, like many people, so you went to the gay lifestyle, but you're still longing for God. You're still trying to figure out where do I go? Because you don't think like, you know, running away from God is the answer. But you're looking for a different kind of God, different kind of spirituality. You say you got involved in occultic stuff, new age stuff. I mean, you know, if the church is rejecting you, you're going to look in other places. And that sounds like exactly what happened to you. Correct.

You know, Eric, this is the blessing. Even when we stray, and I say this to parents, especially who have LGBT children, this is nothing that God can't handle. You have the power because of prayer. And even as I was running from God, in 25 years in that life, wasn't in church. God was still working on me. He wasn't going to let me go, and I just didn't have any peace. And I will tell you briefly, one night I was going into a gay bar.

and I was with some friends and God just turned the noise down of everything around me. And I heard him clearly saying in my ear, if you were to die tonight, would you go to hell? And I knew it was God. And I just dismissed his voice because I was so hurt and angry. I really wanted a relationship with God, but I could not understand that he would want a relationship with me and that he loved me and that Jesus could fill that void. Sadly, it was going to take a lot of work and a lot of God really being patient to help me, become disillusioned with the other world religions before he started to get me back on track. And it wasn't until I was in a CD bar in Hollywood where I was sitting and I've said this

often where I saw this old man because a lot of people don't understand that in the gay community, once you lose your youth, you're discarded like a dirty dishrag. It's a very youth oriented sex obsessed culture. So once you get old and your looks fade and your body falls apart, nobody wants you. And there was this one guy I would always see in the bar and my heart would break for him. And it was if God was impressing upon me in my spirit, if this is the path you want to take, here's the end of the road for you. And Eric, that was really the turning point for me. And I walked away from that life.

And I sadly got involved in a Baptist church in L.A. that was very progressive and liberal that was pushing this agenda. But God still wasn't giving me any peace. And after about three more years of just agony and heartbreak, I eventually got the answer I wanted. And I just said to God, if you will give me peace about this, if it's okay to be gay, I would hope that you would put a good Christian man in my life and I'll have someone to grow old with. And I want to serve you, Lord. But if it is wrong under all circumstances and you will let me know, I will still follow you.

And he gave me the answer. I've been out of that lifestyle for 16 years and I have followed him ever since. Well, I mean, I know so many people that were in the lifestyle that have come out of the lifestyle, some of them have been healed of same-sex attraction, others have not. And that's part of the issue too. I think some people act like, well, I have this attraction. What am I supposed to do? And so I think the answer is a little bit complicated, right?

I mean, some people can find healing. Some people, it's harder to find that. What was your journey in that? Because I think that there are many Christians who they want to find a church that will affirm them in their same-sex attraction. And in this day and age, there are plenty that will do that. It's a great question, Eric. I get tired of the gay men who come at me and say, oh, you're still gay and your own tender and you're just secretly doing it. You know, they've always got something to say.

They can't be happy for anyone who just chooses, you know, my body, my choice. It was my body and my choice to leave that lifestyle. I wasn't happy. I wanted to follow Christ. get any support for that. But for me, they just haven't had enough misery. My peace of mind was so important to me that I diligently stopped and searched for answers and prayed to God.

And what happens is that for some, their same-sex attraction does change. For others, it doesn't. Where God worked in my life is that this need or this grip to need to sleep with men has left me. Because through counseling and through the work of the, the Holy Spirit have received a lot of healing from my childhood wounds and trauma, rejection, and shame, which is what so many go through in that lifestyle. They're broken individuals.

If they will truly just turn their lives over to Christ and let the Holy Spirit work, healing and wholeness will come. If at some point the Lord wants me to be with a woman, he'll bring her into my life. But it's not something that I have to have. I really enjoy serving the Lord and doing the work that I'm doing now. And the LGBT community needs to know there is more to life than sex and sexuality. There is actually a life of peace and wholeness that you can find following Christ. He tells us to pick up the cross and follow him.

And that's what I did. And I can tell you 25 years I devoted to that life and I had no peace, never had any peace. I walked away from it all, gave my life to Christ. And God gave me not only peace of mind when I was depressed and suicidal all of the time, but I knew he had that I had made peace with him and he gave me peace within. And it's just something you can't put a dollar value on. And all I can do is just give them the truth. But what they do with it is between them and God.

Well, again, this is the thing. This is complicated. And I think that, you know, we live in a culture where people want to simplify everything. And they really do a grave injustice to the subject. I mean, there are people, many, many same-sex attracted men. who have been sexually abused by another man early on, this sexualizes them way before that's supposed to happen and pushes them in a certain direction.

And then they say, well, this is who I am. And you think, well, no, in your case, it's a result of you being abused by someone. That you hear this over and over and over again. That's not only the way that it happens, but there's all kinds of factors that play in. And we have to be honest about that it's complex, but that there is a way out. You don't need to be consigned to this as though it's your fatalistic lot.

And so, folks, we'll be right back talking to George Carney. All the book is from queer to Christ. Don't go away. You might have heard Mike Lindell and my pillow no longer have the support of their box stores or shopping channels the way they used to. Yes, it's because of cancel culture. But as a result, they get to pass the savings on to you directly by having a $25 extravaganza. When Mike started My Pillow, it was just a one product company. With the help of his dedicated employees, they now have hundreds of products, some you may not even know about.

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use promo code eric or call 800 9783057 that's promo code eric 800 nine seven eight three oh five seven promo code eric or go to my pillow dot com and use promo code eric welcome back talking to george carniall george am i pronouncing that correctly forgive me i didn't even ask it's fine very good eric I've been called everything else. No worries. The book is from queer to Christ. And, yeah, I was just saying that it's complicated. In other words, you, you know, every human being is different. And some people, you know, have, you know, attraction to both sexes.

Some people have been abused as kids. And that leads them a certain direction. It's a complicated thing. And we act as though, oh, it's so simple. I mean, I think of my literary hero, John Cheever, who was clearly, bisexual in his attractions, but more and more he was kind of pushed toward, oh, you're gay, you're gay. Well, if you're gay, why are you attracted to women?

You know, in other words, people come up with these ideas that are not reality-based, and they're ideological trends that the culture follows. And so this is the trend that we've been hearing over and over and over. If you have a flicker of same-sex attraction, oh, that means you're gay, whatever the heck that means, and it means you've got to follow that path. And you think, why? And also this issue of loneliness, I mean, there are plenty people who are attracted to the opposite sex who don't find a mate. And so they don't have the kind of relationship maybe that they're longing for.

But that's part of the human story, that not everybody has to be matched up in a relationship. That's part of the lie that contributes here is that we all have to be sexually fulfilled. build, we all have to have a partner or way. You know, you kind of think there are many, many heroes in history who haven't had that. I think of all the saints. I think of Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn't have that. And so that lie, that this is a must for everybody, and you've got to find someone. And if you don't, you're going to be horribly lonely.

That's part of the lie that forces people, I think, into moving along the lines that that you initially were in your life before you found freedom. Right, Eric, great point. And for me, I would tell everyone, even if you had love and a lot of people around you, that doesn't mean you may not outlive all of them. At the end of the day, God has to be more than enough. And by the grace of God, he has really taught me how to lean in on him and draw close to him or him drawing close to me.

And I have learned to just lean on him because people will fail you, they'll let you down, they come in and out of your life, God has to be more than enough. And I just wish the LGBT individuals would understand there's so much more to life than sex. There is an eternity, the importance of coming to know Christ because there are two destinations heaven and hell.

A lot of people don't want to talk about it. But it's something that I have had to share with my LGBT friends because I do love and care about them. And Eric, the thing that I would most want to say to your audience, especially to the Christians who support this woke agenda. It may seem to you like you're doing the right thing by affirming them. But what you don't understand is that once they go into that world,

you have no idea what the reality of that lifestyle is like, how depraved, how dangerous, how destructive it is. There are so many addictions and people struggling with so many issues because to search for something that you're never going to find in that world that can only be found in Christ, you're pushing them into a very dangerous world. You have no idea what the reality of that lifestyle is like. I do go into it in my book,

and there are plenty of other ex-LGBT individuals who are sounding the alarm. Listen to our stories. Stop affirming this. The most loving thing you can do is tell them the truth of God's word in love. And I'm so thankful that I had Christians in my life who did that and who weren't woke,

but love me enough to tell me the truth. And I've been able to break free from that bondage. Well, you know, and even for those, I mean, I think one of the ways that people deal with this now is they try to make it, you know, like with the advent of so-called same-sex marriage, like, oh, you can have this, you know, vanilla lifestyle. You're going to be just like your neighbors, you know, Bob and Sally, except, you know, you're Steve and Dave, but it's the same thing and you're going to grow old together. And it's like, look, folks, it's still not God's plan. It's still wrong, you know, even if you're not. in these clubs are doing drugs. And even if you don't go in that direction, it's still wrong.

It's still not God's plan for you. And we have to be clear about that. And we want to say it lovingly. But I think we have to say it that this is not God's plan. And any more than it would be if somebody is struggling in marriage, a man and his wife are struggling in marriage where you'd say, well, obviously, you're not supposed to be together. You don't find somebody else. no, that's not what we say as Christians. As Christians, we say, no, God has put you together.

You need to love each other. You need to work on it. And it may never be perfect, but that's okay. This is not about finding bliss and perfection at any cost. It's about, you know, it's about carrying your cross in and out of relationships. And again, this is the hard stuff that you don't hear Christians talk about so much. It's not fashionable in the world in which we live to talk about that, to talk about sacrifice, to talk about denial. And it's obviously something that you've come to terms with.

Correct. And God has given me peace with it. Eric, I'm going to tell you, just from what I was in to where I am now, years ago, I would have looked at my life now and thought, what a boring life. But, Eric, the peace of mind. I'm telling you, you can't put a dollar sign on it. And my only regret is that I didn't leave. that lifestyle 10, 15 years earlier. It's just sad that it took me some time.

But I'm grateful that God was patient and with me and brought me to where I am today. And it has well been worth it. Well, again, you know, there are very few churches that can deal with this honestly and that can say, yes, you should avoid this lifestyle. This is not God's will for you. And we want to help you deal with that. Usually the way churches help people to deal with that can itself be wrong. And so are there any ministries that you can think of that you would recommend to people? Yes, if they'll go to my website, it's George Carnell, C-A-R-N-N-A-N-N-N-A-L.com.

On page two, you'll see a lot of information and resources. Just keep scrolling. Don't be overwhelmed with all of the information. but I expose a lot of the stuff that people aren't aware of. I mean, you can find more information on the book as well. But Eric, I want to say this, to you Christians, if you're shy about witnessing to LGBT individuals because you don't want to stir up that hornet's nest,

what I did was when I wrote the book, I addressed Sodom and Gomorrah, I address hell, I address the, I give the plan of salvation, the gospel, I take all of the talking points of the LGBT activists and the liberal theologians and I debunk it. And there's a prayer of salvation, and there for him as well. I've done the work.

All you have to do is give them the book. And that's what I did to all of my LGBT friends. We've got a final segment coming up, folks. The website is George Carniel, C-A-R-N-E-A-L.com. George Carnail. The book is from queer to Christ. We'll be right back. Welcome back.

We're talking to George Carnial. You can go to his website, George Carnial.com. It's C-R-N-E-A-L.com for resources. George, you know, you've been saying it, this is a hard thing for people. And they don't know where to turn. And I've had a number of folks like you on this program to show people that, no, there are plenty stories of people who've gotten free of this lifestyle, who have peace, who've found God.

And I think part of the problem in the culture is that you don't hear those stories. You hear all the other stories, every other kind of story, but this kind of story, one does not hear. What was your first inkling that there was a way out of this lifestyle for you? I didn't know that there was a way, quite honestly, Eric. I was just so depressed, and it was basically either attempt suicide or try it again or give my life to Christ and give him a chance. And I decided to give Jesus a chance again.

And I'm so glad I chose that route because I was just so miserable. I'm telling you, I thought about suicide. side as much as I thought about what am I going to wear today? I was breaking down all of the time. I just had no peace. I was so tormented. I know I was dealing with a lot of spiritual warfare, but God was patient and gracious. That's what I would say. Well, again, this is something that, you know, if you're only paying attention to the cultural cues, the culture tells you, there is no way out of this. This is who you are. And I just, think, you know, that's crazy. It's not true. For some people, it's more of a struggle than for

others, but this idea that you must accept this, that this is who you are, that's simply not biblical. And you know what? We rarely talk about it, but it just simply makes no biological sense. In other words, the idea, men are obviously created a certain way physically, a women are created a certain way physically. It's rather obvious that it's God's intention, that it's nature's intention that men and women are created for each other to create life. And so the idea that two men or two women could be mates in a similar way, it doesn't make any sense. And people rarely talk about that. That it simply makes no sense. What is this? I mean, you have to ask that question, what is this? This doesn't seem like it could be God's plan or even the plan of nature.

What is going on here? People are not willing to address that. Eric, may I say the problem is when the gay men reach out to me and they're so desperate to get out of that lifestyle and tell me how miserable they are, the social media platforms are silencing our stories. And what I find so hypocritical is someone like Oprah who's always talking about your aha moment. When has she ever interviewed an ex-transgender or ex-gay or lesbian to hear our side of the story to give a different narrative? The mainstream media platforms will not touch our stories because it goes against the narrative. It's very frustrating. So I am grateful to you for giving me a platform. Well, I mean, it's exactly why I do this show.

From the beginning, it's been about eight years now. I've said, I want to tell the stories that you're not going to hear anywhere else. You're not going to hear this on Fox News, ladies and gentlemen. Have you noticed that? No. You're not going to hear this. These stories need to be told, just like we need to hear the stories of women who had an abortion and who were deeply wounded and regretted it profoundly. You never hear those stories.

these stories need to be told. And so, George, I'm glad that you're willing, not just to tell your story here, but to write a book about it. And I want to say, folks, there are a number of books on these kinds of subjects. There are a number of resources you can find. Today, of course, we're talking to George Carniall. He has many resources at his website, George Carneal.com, C-A-R-N-E-A-L-Gorgecarneal.com. I ask you to visit the website and to see for yourself and to get a copy of the book from queer to Christ. George, it's really heroic of you to be willing to talk about this to write the book.

Congratulations. God bless you. I know that God is using you to lead others to freedom, many of whom don't even know that that's possible for them. So thank you very much. Folks, get a copy of From Queer to Christ and visit George Carni. Carlisle.com. George Carneal, thank you, my friend. Thank you. All praise, honor, and glory to the good Lord above. Amen.