The Eric Metaxas Show - George Gilder (continued)

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

George Franklin Gilder is an American investor, author, economist, and co-founder of the Discovery Institute shares his latest book: Life after Capitalism: The Meaning of Wealth, the Future of the Economy, and the Time Theory of Money.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Did you ever see the movie The Blob starring Steve McQueen? The blood-curdling prep of The Blub. Well, way back when, Eric had a small part in that film,

but they had to cut his scene because the blob was supposed to eat them. But he kept spitting him. Oh, the whole thing was just a disaster. Anyway, here's the guy who's not always that easy to digest. Eric the Texas! Folks, welcome back. We're talking to George Gilder, who has a brand-new book out called Life After Capitalism. But, George, we're just, we're following your fascinating story, the trajectory of your life.

So you graduate from Harvard, where you studied with Kissinger. you found this magazine of conservative thought with Bruce Chapman whom you later go on with to found

the Discovery Institute. That's correct. So what happens after this? What was it about let me ask, what was it about Goldwater that rubbed you the wrong way in the 60s? In other words, what you were, when anybody thinks of,

you know, the Rockefellers, that they are the classic liberal Republicans. Where were you at that time? What was it about Goldwater that rub you the wrong way? Well, I oppose the Southern Strategy. Okay. So please remind us what is the Southern strategy? The Southern Strategy was Republicans had been the Party of Lincoln, and that was sort of the founding principle of republicanism from my point of view.

And Goldwater wanted to play to residual southern resentment in his campaign. I don't, it wasn't bald, it wasn't gross, but still he wanted to steer the Republican Party toward southern. Well, now we know that Nixon did that, but I guess my question is, He opposed the civil rights bill of 1964. Goldwater. Goldwater did. Okay, which is a tragic historical mistake. Yeah.

I think it was a tragic historical mistake. And we were, our magazine was in the middle of that debate. And the great mistake made in that bill was defounded on the Commerce Clause, as if, as if slavery and, and civil rights was really a matter of commerce rather than a matter of fundamental constitutional principles from the time of the Declaration of Independence. And so we've... So Goldwater had at least an argument,

and we, to some extent, believed it, But when it came down to an actual vote, we decided that we should swallow the commerce clause and support the civil rights law as a pivotal law for the future of America. What a tragedy for the Republican Party, of course, and by extension America. Because for the Democrats who were long entrenched in a history of. slavery and racism and Jim Crow and Dixie Crats and on and on and on to be able to pivot and to fool Americans into thinking that they were the friends of blacks. It's an amazing switch, flip, and we've been living with it ever since. And we tried to stop it, but that was what the advance was about.

And we had, and part of this was opposing Kennedy, who was the key guy then. And we had an issue in November 1963 with a caricature of Kennedy on the cover with a headline, the unprepared meets the unforeseen. And this was an obsanity after Oswald shot Kennedy. right Kennedy and we had to pay to retrieve all our issues from the post office lots of money the post office wasn't happy to return this was a big outreach program with this issue right and I think there were a hundred thousand of them printed or something it was really a catastrophe we went broke Kennedy Kennedy looks better and better as time passes at least to me just that he

He was wise to what we today might call, well, to what Eisenhower called the military industrial complex, that there were forces at work which were unmoored from we the people, whether it was the CIA or Hoover's FBI, that it's fascinating to me that Kennedy seems to have been on to that. And I suspect was killed because of that. I don't believe that Oswald did it. you may be the only person alive if you believe that Oswald was the well he did I mean but that what he represented it remains murky so so moving on from there what did you do with yourself to

to stay busy after this magazine well I I wrote speeches for a whole bunch of politicians and for Nelson Rockefeller, for George Romney, for Jacob Javitz, for MacMethy, a whole bunch of politicians. When did you become a person of faith? Because faith is part of your life. Well, my mother was a passionate person of faith. And so I always was nominally a person of faith. I went to church from time to time, not all the time, but I was a person of faith. And I've evolved. You know, my faith increased.

And I certainly, the image of the entrepreneurial creator and the image of his creator was powerful in wealth and poverty and in all my works after that. I wanted to banish this optimizing great machine model of capitalism. And that's the Adam Smith model. Yeah, the Adam Smith model, which, and Adam Smith was a theist, at least,

and was, so, but he did try to model economics on physics, and this was a fundamental mistake, and it's a mistake that persists to this day. Economists think they got a mechanistic model of economic growth and prosperity, and it reduces human beings to mere functions of interests and incentives and really the great machine that began with Adam. Smith was named by Karl Marx as

capitalism and ultimately is based on greed as people said. Well, it's atheistic and it's based on greed. It's fascinating to me because I think what year did wealth and poverty come out? In 1980.

Okay. Well, it seems to me that you are making over the decades... Maybe 1970. It just... Right, just before... Yeah. But but it seems to me that you're making an economic, that you are, you've created an economic apologetics for faith in God. That when you, because you're talking about,

I mean, you're talking about many things, but most people don't come at it from the angle where you're coming at. Yeah, I don't like the idea of apologetics. I mean, I think that. Perhaps inadvertently. I'm not saying that it's intentional, but it seems to me that if somebody is reading your work. But apology, I don't like that. Well, that's a different meaning of the word. Oh, okay. Apologetics just means to explain, you know, since I'm Greek, I can say it's just, it's the explanation. It's been twisted to mean I'm apologizing in the fashion of Obama, for example. No, it doesn't mean anything like that. Apologetics in the sense that explication, exegesis.

Yeah, right. What, we're going to go to a break, folks, but we're talking to George Gilder. The brand new book is Life After Capitalism, Heavy Stuff. When we come back, we'll be talking about a lot of things about cryptocurrency, about the gold standard, about the ceiling above our heads. And that's just for starters. Don't go away. Every day, the parallel economy grows bigger and bigger. It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke propaganda being jammed into every product they consume.

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take a stand for your values. Make the switch today. Patriot mobile.com slash metaxis or call 878 Patriot. Nefarious. The number one movie at Salem now.com is available to rent today. Nefarious is like a modern day screw tape letters ripping back the curtain on evil. Pastor Jack Hibb says the movie captures what is going on today in America. Jim Caviesel, who played Jesus and the Passion of the Christ, loves this movie so much. He watched it three times in just five days and says it's one of the most important films of the last decade. Matt Walsh, the filmmaker behind what is a woman, calls it excellent. Dinesh DeSuzza calls it captivating, suspenseful, and profound Father Martins from The Exorcist Files calls it excellent. You've probably

heard friends talk about Nefarious because it's that good. Sean Patrick Flannery and Jordan Belfy give Oscar-level performances in this movie based on the book by Steve Days. You don't want to miss Nefarious. The movie is the anti-woe antidote to Hollywood. The woke critics hated it, but audiences loved it, giving it a 96% approval. What movie gets 96% approval? Visit salemnow.com or your favorite video platform to rent it today, even though it's still in theaters. If you want to rent it for your church or large group, visit movienight.com to rented today or go to SalemNow.com. Welcome back. I'm talking to George Gilder, and the new book is Life After Capitalism.

George, you've written so many vital books. You wrote a book. book 50 years ago called, what is it, masculinity and... Well, man and marriage. I'm sorry, man and marriage. Men and marriage. There'll be a new one soon. Men and marriage. Well, the reason I'm bringing it up is because I was asked to read it to give an endorsement.

I had not read the book before, and so I am now finishing reading your book written 50 years ago. I can't believe that you wrote this book 50 years ago. It was really written almost 60 years ago because its first version was called sexual suicide. And

that was my first big book. Well, it's fascinating because as I'm reading it, it's a little bit dated, of course, but mostly not. And what's fascinating is that here you are talking about reality. You're talking

about biological reality, and you're talking about what it is to be a man, what it is to be a woman. And I think to myself that in 1965, Senator Moynihan comes out with his big report on how it's the breakdown of the family and the lack of fathers that is destroying the black community in America. And he was basically told, shut up, we don't want to talk about this. And your book is dramatically similar in the themes. this is simple reality. It's simple biology, and you make the case. But what's interesting is that now all these decades have passed, and we have clear evidence of what it was that you were saying and that Moynihan, in his own way, was saying. I used to criticize Moynihan later when he lost track of his original great pioneering insight in that report on the Black family. He wrote for Lyndon Johnson way back. back in this 1960s, 1965.

But what is the, just so people understand, because you've written about so many things over the years, but it's a fascinating deep dive into what it is to why families are important, why husbands are important. And this was, of course, the beginning of the so-called women's movement and feminism, which over time has. has just proved itself not to be good for women. No, no.

Well, I really believe that the family is critical to civilization and to prosperity. And to, I quote, a study in Europe that showed that the industrial revolution rose in those portions of Europe. precisely where the nuclear family established itself from and first. And I believe that men are naturally antagonists of civilization, that their tide of the future passes through the wombs of women, and that without procreation, sexuality becomes ultimately the kind of meaningless circus we see abroad today with people talking about transsex and all this preposterous nonsense that you read from day to day that I criticized and anticipated as an effect.

of feminism in the book Men in Marriage, which will be republished later this year. It will be published, I think, with an endorsement from Eric Metaxus because I'm just enjoying it. It's extraordinary to me, as I say, when I read it, to think that you were saying this

in the 60s and that we now have the fruit of it. We can see what has happened. So you were always reality-based, which makes you something of a traditionalist, but it's fascinating to me because when I use the term of apologetics,

what I really mean, of course, is that you help people looking at different kinds of information to process things and to say there's an order here which is inescapable that if you don't,

if you deviate from that order, you get into trouble. So you're kind of an apologist for reality, and again, apologists in the positive sense. And I think today we see another mania

seizing Silicon Valley where they actually imagine that artificial intelligence shuffling labels essentially for reality can somehow create a mind and take over the universe. They have a kind of spurious totem pole of a god they call AI out there. And it's the materialist superstition, and it will disable our technology. if we continue pursuing it in this way, because mind is not the same as matter. Again, I want to be clear, because this is such a key point.

I guess it was Roger Penrose in his book, is it the Emperor's New Mind some years ago. But he makes the case, at least initially. But the idea that the material world and our squishy brains cannot lead to consciousness. Consciousness. A computer can never achieve consciousness. But you have all of these Silicon Valley geniuses who seem to be very, very dumb on that score.

As though at some point, you know, it's like you're counting numbers and you say at some point, man, these numbers are going to get so high, they're going to burst into flame. And you think, no, that's never going to happen. The numbers are just going to, they're still going to be just. dead numbers. And it's fascinating when people talk about AI as though it's this other thing. And you think, what's just based on what we've already programmed? It's the next phase of computer science. It has nothing to do with human minds. It's utterly dependent on human minds. And if we worship it as a mind, a sort of expression of a Silicon Valley God, it will lead us hopelessly astray. It's a real peril we face today.

Yeah. To have our technologists all worshipping this material God out there, as if... Well, again, as if it could achieve consciousness. And now here's what it can do. It can achieve a... What's the word? Simulacrum. It can give us...

It can fool us. It can fool some people into seeming conscious. And if you want to be fooled, you can be fooled. You can look at a fancy robot and feel that it's a person or whatever. But it's not a person. That's right. And there are a lot of people who seem to want to be fooled by AI as though it's going to be this other thing. And you and I are sitting here knowing it not only won't it be, it cannot be by definition.

Yeah, that's correct. And that's really the ultimate theme of this book. That's what I was going to say. It brings us back to the book. We're talking about life after capitalism. So there's just some heavy stuff in here. So you say that wealth is knowledge. So when people talk, I mean, non-economists like myself, we talk about creating wealth, we say, how can you create wealth?

Well, if it's not a zero-sum game, what do we mean? And speaking to a layman, you say we create wealth. How do we create wealth? We're really knowledge. And we know that. The material is the atoms in the universe are essentially infinite. We can't make any more. We can't make that.

We can't make any more. But there are plenty of them to provide blessed abundance for all our people on Earth. And the real source of wealth is human beings. And one of my favorite books which I celebrate in this is a book called Super Abundance by Gail Pooley and Marion Tupi. And it's been a bestseller for some time. And it shows that while human population rose from some 300 million to 8 billion, our resource. is expanded per person by a factor of 548% or something that human beings are not merely mouths, where minds in the image of our creator, creative in the image of our creator.

And that's part of the zero-sum game lie, the idea that things are finite in order to succeed. We have to reduce the surplus population. There are too many people. And we've been hearing this, my goodness, from Malthus through, you know, Earth Day when it was invented in 1970, that you keep hearing that, oh, any minute, we're going to run out of food. But this is what, you know, the globalists at Davos and the World Economic Forum seem to be saying. They don't like the idea of unbridled population growth. They don't seem to believe in human creativity. We're going to a break.

I will let George respond. And finally, to my monologue, the book is Life After Capitalism, George Gilder, the author, and my guest. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them.

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averring in your many books. that human beings are endlessly creative and that we ought not to worry about having too many people, that we will find ways, we always find ways to feed them. So that's never really the issue. That's not the issue. The issue is that each additional human being creates far more than they take if they live in a free and civilized world, creative in the image of their country. creator. Well, I keep thinking about that. You know, you often hear someone had, you know, whatever, 15 kids or 18

kids or something. And the, you know, the 11th one, you know, cures cancer. I mean, we forget that there's an infinite possibility in each human life. That's right. But there are people, again, if they have this materialist view, which is ultimately a nihilistic, atheistic view of the world, It says no, possibilities are very limited, and we who are the elites, want to control those possibilities and want to control the outcome. Is that what's going on in the opposition to cryptocurrency, do you think? I think so, that the capture of money and turning money from a measuring stick, which it was under the gold standard, into a magic wand for politicians to substitute power for knowledge, that great error is really the greatest threat to the future of prosperity

and what we call capitalism. So you're pro-cryptocurrency because of that? Yeah, I think the blockchain offers the first chance to create a new global currency, as a measuring stick rather than currency as a money supply that can be manipulated by politicians to steal from the future. And what we suffer from today is what I call a hypertrophy of finance, nearly $10 trillion a day of currency trading, $2.8 trillion a day of reverse repurchase agreements to manipulate interest rates. I mean, it's just awesome the manipulation of money that's falsifying all our transactions

and rendering money a lie rather than a path to growth and progress. You say at some point in the book that we're entering a new carbon age. I don't know that you and I have discussed it, but I've dropped your name because you wrote in your newsletter about my friend Dr. James Tour. Oh, yeah. There's a chapter in Life After Capitalism about James Tour and his amazing new graphene discoveries. Well, there's a chapter in my book about Dr. James Stur. Well, I'm going to have to give you a copy of my book is called His Atheism Dead. But is that when you refer to a new carbon age, are we talking about a little bit about that? Yes, we are.

Okay. And it's, James, you know, I contrast the solution in Wired magazine called Climb Works, which is a vast new global company completely dependent on tax monies to create giant contraptions to suck carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and turn it into stones. And I point out that James Torr is invented a way to take garbage, any kind of plastic waste, that Texas-sized island of plastic waste in the Pacific, and turn it into perfect ribbons of graphene, which is a single layer of carbon atoms, which is the strongest substance known to science. It's 200 times stronger than steel.

It's more,000 times more conductive than copper. It transmits signals so accurately that you insert it in a severed spine, and the spine refuses. I've talked about this with him. We did a Socrates in the city event, and I wrote a chapter in my book about it, because it's very, very exciting. And we've had him on this program a number of times. But he and what he's doing with nanoscience is a good example of what you're talking about.

This really astonishing capacity of creativity of what we human beings can do with technology, much of which has to remain unforeseen. There's no way we can imagine where it's going. But just the hints that we have from somebody like Dr. James Tour would give you hope. It sure would. So when you say a new carbon age, is that what we're talking about? That's what we're talking about. Graphene. And Tours' discovery is one of his students of flash jewel heating,

of creating perfect graphene from garbage. Tons of graphene has transformed graphene from a rare, precious element into a new abundance to fuel a new era of prosperity and growth. And that's one of the themes of life after capitalism. It would be like discovering, you know, a lot of oil underneath. A lot better than oil. Except better. A lot better.

Except even better. All right. We're talking to George Gilder. Final segment coming up, don't go away. Are you tired of not getting a good night's sleep? Well, my friend Mike Lundell has created the perfect solution. He didn't just stop at the pillow. He also created the Giza Dream bed sheets made from the world's best cotton called Giza.

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Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Take advantage of this amazing offer. Go to MyPillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use promo code Eric at checkout. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Call 800-978-3057 or go to MyPillow.com now and use promo code Eric. Final segment with George Gilder. George, you are what must be described as a polymath. You've written on many subjects in great depth.

The new book, Life After Capitalism, is a daring thesis because it's kind of like a unified field theory or something. You're taking several things and pulling them together. You talk about time is money. and you're not saying it in a jokey way. I'm talking about money as time. Time may or may not be money, but money is time. Money is the way the scarcity, but also infinite extent of time is manifested in all the transactions across an economy.

Well, how do you hope this book will affect us? In other words, I know that opinion leaders will be reading it, and what do you think they will do? Or what do you hope they might do? Well, I hope that they will be more receptive toward the great innovation of the blockchain, which springs from the innovation of the microchip and two billion-fold increase of memory capacities. that's on silicon devices, two billion-fold rise in memory capacities has made it possible to create a global network

where all the transactions are recorded on all the nodes of the network and thus become unhackable, unimutable, really. Our current internet is a giant copying machine, and you can't really tell. It's not time stamped. You can't really, all transactions have to be conducted by trusted third parties who turn out not to be so trusted. And it's, so blockchain really allows a reestablishment of real money as time across the global economy. But it hasn't been fully realized yet. But I think it will emerge. In coming years, we're going to have a new global money. And various countries may try to create

central bank digital currencies, but those central bank digital currencies will be valuable, in a real Bitcoin that actually has the properties of time rather than the properties of material and commodities. When you talk about the digitization of money, essentially, are you not worried about the loss of freedom? I almost feel like I want to go back to cash because the idea that everything that I buy can be traced, It seems to me, that seems to me to be a bad thing. Yeah. Well, I think that it is a bad thing when money is controlled by politicians. But when your money and your identity is controlled by you on the blockchain,

and if the politicians say you are violating a law or concealing taxes or whatever, you have the power of attestation. You have an unimpeachable source of information that proves your, that you are not violating laws or stealing or. But you don't think that the Chinese, for example, will try to manipulate this into their advantage? They will try to manipulate it, but their currency will be valued in a blockchain currency,

a global blockchain currency. rather than by the notional ideas of their central bank and their dictator. It's money is real. Money is something that's real. And what it is is the way time gets transmitted through the transactions of the economy, the passage of time. And time conceals the future. It reveals the past, and it constrains you now, but it's open, it has unlimited extent. And these properties of time have to be incorporated in the new blockchain-based global currency that will be the test of all these national currencies. They'll be, because if there is, a currency that actually expresses the reality of the world, it will be the measuring stick,

just as the measuring stick of the second, the meter, the kilogram, the watt, the lumens. In other words, reality-based. That's ultimately what you're talking about. We're talking about reality. It can't be monkeyed with because an atom is an atom, and a second is a second. And how long has this book been gestating in you? And of course, by gestating, I just mean that metaphorically. But you've been thinking about things for a long time.

But when do you decide you wanted to write about this? Well, I've been writing. I've written 21 books or something. This may be the 22nd. I don't know, depending on how you count. and many of them capture various parts of this book. This book may be kind of a summation of a lot of other books. I wrote knowledge and power,

which is a more complicated expression of information theory and how it's manifested in the microcosm. I wrote a book about the microchip. Gosh, there's so much more to talk about, but we're out of time. How can people find you online? Is there a website or how can people people... Well, discovery.org is one. And this is a book was published by Ragnary.

And... Well, discovery.org... And... And gilderreport.com. Okay, that's a good one. Gilderreport.com. Gilderreport.com. Well, George Gilder, under your great-grandfather's ceiling, it's been a joy

to speak with you. Thank you for the book and for your time. Thank you so much. Hey there, folks. We interrupt this program to remind you that we're doing a program, okay? Today I'm talking to George Gilder. You have by now, I think, heard the first half of what is an absolutely amazing conversation. It is seriously amazing. I just want to be clear. I can't say this in front of him.

during the interview. But he is a very big deal. And it's just crazy to hear his story and then to hear him talk about his new book. So we'll continue that in our two. A couple of quick things to mention. I say this all the time. Please subscribe to our emails at Eric Mataxis.com. Just go to Ericmataxis.com and subscribe. We will send you the video interview with George Gilder. You can share it with your friends. you can share my interview with John Zimirak with your friends, but you have to go to EricMetakS.com, sign up for the newsletter. I also should mention last night I was on Newsmax with Eric Bowling. We will share that video.

I'll share it on Twitter and Truth Social and probably on Facebook, but if you're not on those social media platforms, the easiest thing is just to sign up to Eric Mataxis.com. What I talk about there is crazy. I will probably talk to John Zemirac about it, tomorrow's show. It concerns the Vatican. It's insane.

It's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. And so I was asked to comment on Newsmax. So I did that yesterday. Again, we'll send you that video and I'll talk to John's America about it tomorrow. Before we get back to George Gilder, two things. Number one, the film Nefarious is available at SalemNow.com. If you go to SalemNow.com, you can get it there. It is the number one film at Salem now.

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