The Eric Metaxas Show - Gianni Russo

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

Gianni Russo, author of "The Hollywood Godfather," returns with extraordinary tales of historic crimes involving the mob, the White House and, of course, Hollywood. 

Taxes Show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. It's Eric Metaxis show. Guess who my guest is today? Did you guess? It's Johnny Russo. Johnny Russo. I smile when I see you. I had you on here. It's got to be two and a half years ago. Suddenly, COVID just flew by. You've got an insane story. You got a thousand insane stories. but for people who don't know anything about you, I guess the headline is you played Carlo in the Godfather. That's how a lot of people know you.

That was a big achievement 49 years ago. Right? Is next year 50 years of this thing? Yeah. Well, it came out 72 or 72 or 71? 72. No, we made it in 71.

Yeah. Came out in 72 and then we won like five Oscars, which I think this is great. I was 25 years of. age. Right. And I said, you know, it's all downhill from here. It was too. I've done 46 other films. Nine more Oscars. The film is one, not me, but it's fun being in them. I would think so, but you didn't start out as an actor. Again, people who don't know you, you have a, it's almost impossible for you or anyone to tell your story because it's so unbelievable that it needs endless, you know, explanation. Like,

you know, because it sounds like somebody would make something up. I mean, here's the headline. Let me, let me say for people who are just tuning in. When you were 16, you slept with the 28-year-old Marilyn Monroe. Frank Sinatra was a friend. He taught you to sing. Where do you go from there? I mean, these are things that sounds like somebody would say it as a joke. But you've lived an amazing, crazy life. Here you are. And you know, it's so funny, where you're situated here, I was just telling my sister, Megan, that I used to sit before they built a shopping center on steps across the street from Lee Strasbourg studio. Yes.

And meet Marilyn here late at night. And who come out one night was Marlon Brando? I was just going to guess. Was it Marlon Brando? And Tony Curtis. And Tony Curtis. Because it was a higher advanced class of acting. Oh.

Because they were all, you know, she's already made like six motion pictures. That was method acting. Yeah, I know. I love it. Method acting. You got to become the, the, but I mean, this is what I'm saying. Like, you know, you're not that old. You're sitting here.

You're 78. You're doing a million different things. But you have had a life that. Well, I started young. That's why. Yeah. I got a lot in early. You got a head start.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's start. Your life, I mean, you were in a hospital for polio. Yeah, this is my second pandemic. I got polio in August. It was 1949. I stayed there five years,

so this one was, this quarantine was a lot easier. So it was a hellish thing. You were alone as a boy in a ward. Where was the hospital? Bellevue, 30th. Oh, right here. He's standing right here. Not far.

So you were there as a kid for five years? Without leaving the ward. Without ever leaving the ward because polio is contagious. Yep. At that time, it was really contagious. It was 2,700 kids died the first year. That's a lot of kids. That, you know, without having the news and being all over the world,

I don't know how many people. That was in New York City. It's unbelievable. So, okay, you get out of there. You're 12. What are you doing on the corner of where was that, Fifth Avenue? And, you know, right where the Apple store is? Well, I didn't get there right away.

I stayed downtown for about, three or four months. I was selling ballpoint pens. They just came out. And Leah Rubinowitz, who's a friend of my grandfather, had a stationary store on Delancey Street.

And he had a sign about ballpoint pens. And he was so excited about these pens. My grandfather used to walk down there to get pads and pencils for Carlo Gambino's club where they play Zigginet all night. So it's like the names just keep coming. I was going to say, you can't stop.

Even your grandfather was hanging out with these people. So you're telling me that you're a kid, you're not going to school. First of all, I was still deformed. How were you deformed? What do you mean? The whole left side of my body was paralyzed. So how come it's not paralyzed now? That's why I go to church.

I said, no venas. I have no residual. Other than you wouldn't know it, but the left side of my body is smaller than the right side. What did doctors say? What happened to you? See, first of all, I didn't have, I didn't have, you could have had polio so many different ways. Yeah. Could have been respiratory.

That's why people were in line lungs. You could have been to form the rest of your life. Mine were all elasticity muscles. So I was able to rebuild them, but I still have, you know, I'm dwarfed. Like my, my, I wear two different size shoes. I wear two different size gloves. But unless I tell you that, you're not going to know that. Yeah.

So I could walk down the street and nobody's going to know. I don't have a limp. I have nothing. I've seen you walk down the street and you look absolutely fine. So, but you had polio and back then, but you missed five years of schooling in this ward? Yeah. Five years. I went to the first grade. That was it.

It was the summer of 49. I was six and a half. I turned seven, December 12th. That's how I knew. I had the same birthday as Sinatra. And he was like a mentor because they mentioned that, you know, He was an Italian American from Hoboken, Humble Beginnings, and now he's doing six shows a week.

I mean, today at the Paramount Theater. We're born the same day. So he encouraged me to get out of that award, believe it or not. And then I met him four years later in person. Well, look, you met everybody, but we got to get to that. So you're literally on the street selling ballpoint pens. Right. I was like left side old.

I've never thought of this, but because I grew up in a world. years after you, but the idea that ballpoint pens were a big thing. Yeah, no more ink. No more ink wells. You don't have to fill up your pen. But who thinks about that? The idea ballpoint pens came in. So it was a big deal. So in the 50s, you're standing on a corner selling bullpoint pens. Well, first, I exhausted everything downtown, Wall Street banks. What do you mean exhausted? Well, I went to the bank. I don't know how I thought of this, because that's when people got paid in cash. You actually got an envelope. I remember.

So they had to stagger the pay days. So Mr. Pinto, Marine Midland Bank, I asked him, and you looked at me, he knew I wasn't going to rob the bank, and he gave me the schedule. So I would show up after the paid envelopes just were given, and here I came. So they gave me the change, or an executive gave me a dollar for something I just paid 12 cents for. So after a while, I didn't even have to say anything. They'd open their drawer. They had more pens than I did.

So I took the train uptown one day, and I stayed there, and I've been there ever since. Yeah, you've been uptown ever since. So you go uptown one day. You're standing to selling pens, and what happens? I'm standing in front of the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. Still there. It's still there, and I'm still walking by it every day. I know every dorm in there.

And here comes a guy. Every morning he came from Sus-Shine. He came from the west side with his friend, I thought. I found out later the body on the sherry Netherlands for a shoe shine. Shoeshine on the way to the Waldorf. Every day he stopped and got and got buffed his shoes and that's who Frank Costello

was. I mean, this guy and never took a pen, gave me words of wisdom, but he always gave me a hug. And every time he hugged me, he hugged me where he would squeeze my left shoulder, which was my paralyzed

shoulder. And this went on all the time. I couldn't wait for the guy to come. because sometimes it can be $2, $5 a day. But you know, you just got to explain, most people don't know who Frank Costello is. Well, he was, they had the nickname the ambassador. He was the head of the Genovese family while Vito Genovese was in jail. So he was head of one of the five crime families in New York.

Right, but I'm saying how do you describe him? You could say he was one of the arch criminals of the 20th century. Oh, yeah. You could say he was the king of the underworld. This is a powerful man. Well, he amassed $30 million in the 30s being partners with Joe Kennedy in Prohibition. So, I mean, this is not only the underworld. This guy was a genius in business.

Oh, no. Clearly, clearly. And that's what's interesting is some of these people are geniuses. But what I'm saying is most people who don't know him as a person, you would think of him as a very scary figure, a forbidding figure, a dangerous figure, a guy who's having people murdered. He was dangerous, but you know, the old school people, I mean, what we know now because of the godfather

and the John Gatties and all the Sammy the Bulls and these people who want to be flamboyant. Most of the old timers, that's why it was called the secret society. Right, Le Gozano. We're going to be right back talking to Johnny Russo, and we'll let you finish this story. Castles in the air.

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squadpod.com slash Eric. Let me say it again. Squadpod.com slash Eric. Check it out. Make like a Mr. Milk toast, you'll get shot out. Folks, welcome back talking to Johnny Russo, the headline. You played Carlo in the Godfather, but forget about the headlines. You're telling us kind of an amazing story.

I was saying that Frank Costello, most people like me would think of him as very forbidding very frightening because of the dark power to have people killed and all that kind of stuff. But you're a kid on the corner and he treated you sweetly. Oh, my God, yeah. And then he gave me a job. One day, you know, we had a little confrontation. Because before I used to come up town by train, I should take the end train and get off it right there across the street on 59 and 50. And 50, having you walk across the street was easy.

and then I used to stop and see Carlo Gambino because I used to call him Uncle Carlo because that was the thing we did in the neighborhood everybody was your uncle I thought I had the biggest family in the world Which neighborhood? Mobile Street Okay so you did grow up down there

Oh no I didn't know that so you grew up on my mother So you knew Carlo Gambino another figure, major figure in that world Oh my God, yeah But so you knew some of these people as a kid and when you get off the train, you said I would say hello to call again, but where was he when you say what?

No, no, no. I didn't get off the train when I was leaving to get the train. Oh, before you got the train. He was at Ferraris. He didn't like the coffee in the club, the Ravenite. So you'd get coffee there first. Farahas, isn't it still there? It's still there.

I've been there. It's 115 years old. And next door to it, as part of the story, is a religious store that's still there for generations where I still buy my my my I give up uh holy mask cards to a lot of people and this one morning I'm leaving and there's a lagoran that most people know the horn or the hands that you see the maloica's the italians where I knew we were going to get to this the maloikas so anyway this one had a horn the red horn but with a hunchback on it I never saw it in my life so I said Joe, what's this?

So wait, how old are you now? 12? 13? Yeah, 13. Okay, and you see the Gambino. Who do you see there? Or the person in the store you're saying? I saw calling him before I got polio. Okay.

But I'm saying at this point, you said, you see something in the store and... I saw at the store the Ligorn that everybody wore. The Italian horn, but with a humpback on it? With a hunchback man on it. Which I've never seen. They just came from Sicily. So I said, Joe, what's this? I never saw it before.

So we just got them. They're from Sicily. I said, well, how come a hunchback? They said Sicilians like touching cripples. Oh, yeah. Well, that's what Frank was doing. Oh, my gosh. And that's what got me crazy.

You got upset. Yeah, because I thought the guy right me. You thought he was nice. Right. He was just trying to get a little good luck. So me. That's an old, you know, they believe that stuff. Yeah.

So me, I'm going to the. train. They were selling the novelty things. There was a rabbit for it. It said, for luck, I buy one. A pink one. I put in my pocket. Here he comes. And he goes

to touch my move. He's what are you doing? It's nothing. He goes to touch my move again. He said, what are you doing? I says, not what I'm doing is what you're doing. I thought you liked me. You're touching me like I'm some kind of freak?

and he turns to his bodyguard black, who I try to throw as his friend. He says, you believe this kid? He said, what's your name? I said, Johnny Rousseau. He's, oh, yeah, who's Angelo Rousseau? Angel Rousseau? Angela, I said, my great uncle.

He's, when did you see him last? I said, what's this is a quiz show? I said, I never saw him. You should know that. If you know him. He's, why didn't you see him? I said, because they hung him in Sicily in 1948. So now he knows I know.

Unbeknownst to me, my uncle sent all of them to America. And that was the end of it. I had a job until he died. I was with him until 73. So he gave you a job at that point? As a runner just to, and schooled me. I basically did his errands for the first two or three years.

Then I started traveling the world. Well, I traveled America. First. 17, I started going to Vegas every week. But when you grew up on Mulberry Street, did you know that this was what we today call the mafia? What did you think of it? Did you think these are bad people? I was six years old. I didn't think anywhere was bad. They weren't talking about it. First of all, they never talked to kids about it.

They were all, like I said, my uncles, I thought I had the greatest family in the world. And, you know, I knew nothing for those first six years other than being down the neighborhood. Right. And then you're in the ward for five years. Yeah. And then you get out. And then I get on the street. So when Frank Costello, who, if people look him up, I mean, he's just an unbelievable name in the lore of mafia lore in the 20th century.

He kind of pulls you under his wing as you're the kid. That's it. Exactly the name, too. The kid. Most people didn't know my name until the godfather came out. Because you were the kid. Always the kid. So if you're hanging out with somebody as powerful as Frank Costello,

I would imagine a lot of people would also fear you in a way, that you had a certain privilege just like being the son of, you know. I like to say respect. They didn't fear me. I'm a little skinny kid. But I'm saying it. But that's kind of, it's just an interesting thing because doors are opened. and everybody, you know, wants to kiss his ring.

So in a way, they want to kiss your ring in a way. And you're so young. Well, that's the funniest thing you should say because as getting out of the polio, what I told you, I was mentored subconsciously by Sinatra because he, look what he achieved. And now I used to go to Copa every day. It was like 4 o'clock in the afternoon

when I used to go and drop off envelopes to calm mine because whoever was bookmaking or whatever, I bought the envelops to them. And there's a wine outside already. So I go down through the kitchen, and Sinatra's voice I hear, he's rehearsing. So now... This is the 50s.

Yeah. So now he sees me and he looks at Modell, and it was the first time I heard this, says to him, no, that's Frank's kid, don't worry, he's all right. And he keeps rehearsed it. So I think, let me sit down. This is Frank Sinatra.

looking at Franks and Andre singing. So as soon as that was over, he puts a cigarette in his mouth. I run over and I light it. And he says, what's your name, kid? I said, the kid. He's the kid. He's who gave you that name? I said, I said, Mr. C. So I guess I won't ask that question anymore.

Just like you said, because of that, I had a relationship with him. In fact, he baptized my son, Luchano, my last son, Luchano. And then, you know, it's crazy. He was the godfather for your son. Yeah. So Frank Sinatra, and you say he taught you to sing. I mean, there's so much I want to talk to you about. And so our time is a little bit limited today.

So I'm thinking, what do we have to talk about today? How about this? Your clothes. The reason I first saw you, I was eating at a pizzeria on Lexington with a friend. And I keep looking over at you. And I had no idea who you were. But the way you were dressed, something like you're dressed. Now, I kept thinking, that guy is.

somebody. I can't put my finger on who it is. And I kept looking at your face trying to figure it out. Because usually I've got a sixth sense of, you know, celebrities and stuff. I can spot them in an alley from the back of the head. But I couldn't figure it out. And then you and I got talking. And, you know, you told me that you were in these different movies and things. But it's kind of funny. You've got a real personal sense of style. Where does that come from? Again, it came from Costello. Then later on, Johnny Anielli, who would. that missed a fashion. I was going to say,

Anielli, that's a big name in fashion. But still, when you think of these mafia guys, they're wearing like fedores and long coats. They're not dressing like you dress. No. And that's one thing I wanted to, even younger, I wore a lot of, I didn't want to be in the blacks

and the grays and the hats and the things because I wanted to have my own identity and not be identified. Because I was moving, you know, millions and millions of dollars, The last thing I wanted people to see me at airports say, oh, that's a mafia guy. And next I want to check my luggage. And that was before 9-11, believe me.

Right. So, no, I always had a flare for color. Yeah. And in 1957, I flew to Switzerland to meet Johnny Aguilly. And why in 57? What was that? Well, you have another hour for that. This watch was in a window called Van Cleef and Arpell in 1957.

It's a Chilini Rolex, one of a kind. This watch. This watch. So Mary used to give me coffee in the, or it's Coco. Who's Mary? She was a sales girl in there when it was called me selling my PowerPoint pens. So when they put the window, the watch in the window, I said, can I have the serial number of that watch? And she said, why?

I said, someday I'm going to own that watch. I made it a goal. I'm going to save enough money to buy it. I can't even begin if it's in Van Cleef and Arpelles. What a watch in the window cost. Yeah, well, I found out it was 9,000. Then? Then.

Okay, so that's like 150,000 today. Yeah, probably. Sure. Well, most people don't know. See, it's all diamonds embedded in it. But anyway. Yeah. So we gave it a long story show.

That's another show. No, no, no, no. This is, all right, we're going to go to a break. Ladies and gentlemen, why do I need to tell you to stick around? Because you'd be crazy not to. We'll be right back. Prescription dispensing Labs is a national licensed pharmacy specializing in personalized prescription and natural medicine. The pharmacists at PD Labs are credited with formulating unique nasal sprays for the dreaded brain fog and a leader in uncovering new compounds to improve your health.

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Folks, I'm talking to Johnny Russo, and we are talking about everything. It's such a delight to talk to you, Johnny. You were talking about fashion. I heard you say in another podcast that you've come out with a clothing line. Right. And it's not out yet, right? Or maybe when this is. By the time this is.

By the time of the airs, it'll probably be out. But at the end of May, go to La Cosa Mia. Which is funny. not La Cosa Nostra, La Cosa Mia. That's what I, I'm on to keep the thread going. Yeah. By Gianni. Yeah, by Gianni.

And sure, all these accessories, shoes. Now, these shirts, I've seen, I saw you wear a shirt with like a double collar. Like, I've seen that kind of stuff. What is that? I've designed them. I've been designing my own shirts for 10 years. That's why when they approached me to do clothing, I said, wait a minute, I got my own line. They couldn't believe it.

And so these shirts, these collarless shirts, I've been designed these 10, 12 years. You could see pictures of me on stage with these shirts. And everybody commented me on it, but I was going to, you know, now I'll be selling them in Northstrom's. Right. And Dillard's 380 stores. Unbelievable. Do you still have property in Las Vegas? I have a lot of property.

In fact, I just talked to my son yesterday, Gianni, and we have a ranch. I forgot I had that he. He's living on with his kids, and now he's raising miniatures, and he's making a ton of money. Miniatures? Miniature horses. And, I mean, my kids are pretty smart. But I have a lot of property. I have 23 acres of land right behind the, between Hard Rock and the MGM Grand still there.

Okay, so obviously that has increased astonishingly in value, but you don't want to sell it? No. Why? Why? For what? I mean, my grandfather told me if you need money, you sell something. I don't want to sell it. Somebody wants to develop and I'll subordinate the land,

which could be a nice ownership in a hotel. Interesting. The last time you're on this program, you told the story of how you essentially, and again, people think we're making this up, brokered the deal for the godfather to be made. Well, I got it made after, well, first of all, Costello, I mean Costello, Joe Colombo. was picketing the FBI building because his son was arrested

and he created this whole anti-deformation league. And then the book came out. You mean the godfather came out, Mario Puzzo book came out. And I wanted to be an actor, my ego. And I thought that would be a great shot because they said they're going to use unknowns. So then I figured if I fixed this for him, and I always knew the mob there.

If you could show him how to make money, he'd take his pickets down. And he did. And I broke it the deal. And here we are now. 49 years later, talking about the godfather. And who is left from that cast? I'm thinking the only one I could think of is Talia Shire, James Kahn, Pacino is still around.

Every time I see Pacino in the Godfather and I see him in anything after, it's like a completely different person. I cannot figure out. He's such a great actor. Well, he's a great actor. but what I'm saying is the role that he played, he's young. And to me, that's Al Pacino. And then when I see him in subsequent movies, I think, is that still Al Pacino? It's like, it seems to me like he kind of went in a different direction or something like that.

Well, and that was a young role, and that was the only young role he could play. And the guy where he matured in that. You know, in that movie, he matured 50-something years. Last time you were here, you told the story that because of what James Kahn did to you, which we don't need to go into, that, You hate his guts to this day? I hate too much energy. I just, I don't hate anybody.

I just got rid of it. Good. As a thought, he's done. So you wouldn't kill him if he had the opportunity? Oh, no. I don't kill people. Alvin, we have the tape, Albin. Johnny said it right here.

You said if you got a terminal disease, he better look out. Oh, yeah. I mean, you didn't say you didn't get to that end. Huh? If I get a terminal disease, I want everybody tell me anybody they want. If they're bad, I'll take them out. You'll take them out.

Why not? Well, I'll tell you why not. Another time, Johnny, another time. There's so much to talk about. We talked about the death. I heard you talk about the death of Marilyn Monroe, and you said some stuff. I just found astonishing.

You knew her as a human being. Yeah. You really knew her. How many years did you know her? I mean, if she was 20, you must have known her, what, 11 years? No, four years only. I thought she was 28 when you met her.

You said that. She was in the 30s, 31 or 32. She just did some like it hot. How old was she when she died, 36? I don't know. Okay, so you only knew her four years? Yeah, I knew her four years. That's it.

Okay, so somebody got the math wrong. I'm sorry, but the point is you knew her as a human being, and you talked about, it's just fascinating because you're there on the inside, and you're with all these people. And you said that a lot of the men around her, whether Sinatra or whoever, your words were they all had their way with her. Well, she gave herself to them. You know, she thought that's all she had.

I mean, her body and everybody took advantage of it. We had parallel lives. When I was 12, I could point it out. I was in a polio ward. When she was 12, she was in an orphanage. looking at the water tower in the valley of California of Warner Brothers. And she made it her mind up beyond that lot. And she got there.

Which is interesting. Your audience, a good friend of mine has a book that you and I spoke about before you went on. Mark Shaw, collateral damage. I can't believe what this guy's written for us and for your audience. A book is coming out like next week. Collateral damage. Collateral damage. Collateral damage.

And what do you mean what he's written for? No, we're out of time in this segment. Okay, folks, I'm talking to Johnny Russo. It's the Eric Metaxis show. We'll be right back. Hey there, folks. It's Eric Mataxis show. I'm talking to Johnny Russo.

Yeah, unions. They have their rules. Let me ask you, Johnny, you were just talking about a book, Collateral Damage. But you said he obviously is a good journalist because he writes about a lot of this stuff. I know. I can't believe it. He's been on my podcast. And we spoke so much.

many times. And he's a fax guy. You know, he really does his homework. But does he write stuff that other people don't? Because when you talk about the death of Marilyn Monroe, you seem to have this inside information. And there's so many controversies and so many, nobody seems to know what really happened. You get all these different versions? Well, I think he's cleared a lot of it up because, you know, he sent me the book and I briefly went through it because I'm not a great reader. But the buzzwords and the doctor's names and all that. He's done his research. Okay, when you say the doctor's names, you say, like, flat out, Marilyn Monroe was killed by the Kennedys. Like, you're not saying that metaphorically,

you mean they had her murdered. Robert, not they. Robert Kennedy had her murdered. Yeah. If you don't mind, tell me, tell me about that. Well, the only reason I could say that, because I knew what was going on, They were all invited. Robert, John, and Joe Kennedy were invited to Cal Neva the weekend, the last weekend in July. And if she was killed, August 5th. Where's Calneva? What's that? Calneva is a resort on the border of California, Nevada.

They owned it together. The Kennedys? No. Joe Kennedy had a piece of it. Sam G. and Connor Sinatra and DeMorton. So they're all sitting poolside.

The photographs I have around my house, and he has some in his book that I just noticed yesterday, were taken by Sam Jean Conner. Imagine having him as the photographer. But the thing was for, they were going to blackmail. They thought

Robert and John one more time at Malam Monroe. And that would be the end of them because they, the mistake John made was make his brother attorney general. John never spent time with his little brother, I guess, to know that he hated his father and even John and what they stood for. Now, I'm missing something. John Kennedy, the president.

Right. Didn't know that his brother, Robert Kennedy, hated his father? Yep. And how does that relate to the story? I'm missing it. Because when he made him attorney general. Right. He went after all his father's friends.

We're going to lock them all up. Okay, so RFK went after the mafia hard. And John Kennedy never dreamt his brother would do that. Exactly. In fact, he was called in when they made the announcement. They called John and Joe. When who made the announcement? Oh, that they're going after the...

No. When he made the announcement, he was going to make his brother the attorney general, They called Joe and said you've got to stop that. This is not what we put your son in office for. Because the mob made Joe. I'm John, President of the United States. So his father, let's just go back here. His father, Joe Kennedy, was, it sounds like very wrapped up with the mob.

Well, prohibitioned him and Frank Costella made $30 million each. Who were they selling? him the booster, the mob. It's a fascinating thing because it really is right of the godfather. I want my son to go legitimate. I want him to become a senator or something like that. That sounds like the story of Joe Kennedy. Mario Puzzo collected all this stuff.

Why was Joe Kennedy such a property owner in Chicago? He owned department stores. He owned everything. No, I mean the Midwest and then, I mean, that's when they created. the syndicate. So when he went with two them and said, if you make my son president of the United States, we will invade Cuba and give you your casinos back. So it was a win-win thing. So Maya Lansky, everybody jumped on board for this. So now they made him president. So I mean, it all sounds like a conspiracy theory, except you're telling me this is simply what happened.

It's simply what happened. And when you say they made him president, they made him president by stealing votes in Chicago. Not stealing votes, no, no. They got every union in the world to vote for them. All the Teamsters, the culinary, international longshoremen, that's how Marcellos gotten involved. Anastasia got involved.

They controlled all the unions. And I still had to take a flight to Dallas, Texas, and drive out 30 miles out and deliver $3 million to a farm, to a ranch. I don't get it. And three weeks later, Linda Mayne Johnson became his running mate. He hated the Kennedys, but they made a deal. John was going to be in for eight years, and then you'll go to the next eight. They controlled the White House for many years. Nobody knew that. Well, do you believe LBJ was in on the murder of John F. Kennedy?

There was no other person in the world that would have taken him to that one. He's the only guy. He had the route. And the Texas Rangers were the backup, God forbid, the three shooters that you think Lee Harvey Oswald was Marcello's shooter. New York had a shooter. Chicago had a shooter. They were going to kill John. They were going to start to kill the kids. That's what they told Joe. That's when Joe had the stroke.

But I thought it was Robert was the target. I knew there was something going on. Someone was going to get killed. Why did they want to kill John F. Kennedy? We've slipped sideways, but go ahead. Why? Yeah. And when I tell you, you're going to say, wait a minute, because John F. Kennedy told them in person, he was definitely going to do what he was going to do.

Invade. Do what? Invade Cuba, give them all the casinos back. It was about money. But he failed to the Bay of Pigs. Not only that, because he hired his brother. His brother told him there was no missiles there. and his brother took him away from Sinatra. I was with him and, I was with them three or four years prior, every night almost. With the Kennedys?

No, with John being groomed, Peter Loford was watching him, Sinatra said he can control him. This was, I mean, this was a conspiracy that was well, laced and ready to go. Sinatra produced the inaugural. I was sitting 10th row from the podium. I was at the inaugural. I was 20 years old. Everybody might say, who's this guy?

Did you get to meet Robert Frost? Who? Exactly. No. He was the poet who read some poems at that inaugural. You skipped that part. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. I'm not into poetry.

Yeah, all right. But you like Dante. You like Dante. Hey, we're going to be right back talking to Johnny Russo. And they said you were going to put me on a shell. Hey there, kids. I hope you're ready for another segment of Ask Metaxus. Albin, I'm going to play the role of Metaxus if you don't mind.

That sounds great. You do that, Kim. Let me think a crack at it. I think I can nail this one. I don't mean the question. I mean playing the role of Metaxus. This is, we get all kinds of lovely emails from people. And thank you for these lovely emails.

Very encouraging, sweet. Thank you. Some critical. Thank you for those too. Yeah. But then we get questions. Someone named Sarah. says, I just finished reading your book,

If You Can Keep It. That's my book, if you can keep it. I really enjoyed the book. However, the portion of the book that talks about how virtuous Washington was has me a little confused. I realize he did a tremendous amount for the founding of our wonderful country,

but he was a slave owner. Can you give me some insight into this? As it turns out, I can. I think slave owning is wrong. I actually think slavery is wrong, and the slave trade is wrong. and I wrote a book about a guy named William Wolverford's. The book is called Amazing Grace,

who led the battle against the abolition of the slave trade. I don't think there's anyone. I'm going to put you down for a no on slavery. Yeah, I'm against slavery. But this is an important point. And in my book, if you can keep it, I also talk about George Whitfield, who I can never remember if he owned slaves or was pro-slavery.

This is like in the 1740s and 50s. but we need to be gracious in dealing with figures from the past for many reasons we can never say that slavery is okay far from it's one of the most wicked things in the history of humanity but slavery has existed since the beginning of time it wasn't invented by some white guys like 400 years ago right as the 1619 project would have you think human beings, broken human beings have had various forms of slavery since the beginning of time, and it was only bringing the gospel of Jesus into the culture that led Wilberforce to abolish slavery in the slave trade, and that led most people in the West to do the same thing.

And it's horrifying that it took so long. But we also have to remember that in the 18th century, there was not a single landowner like George Washington, who didn't have slaves. So the idea that he would somehow be beyond that or above it or whatever, I think that's unreasonable. I think the question is how he treated them. Did he provide for their release upon his death? I mean, these are at least mitigating factors. But there's just no question that we all know.

It's a horrifying thing. And it's horrifying that Whitfield participated in it. It's horrible at Washington. participated in it. Again, the issue is in the details to me, not whether they accepted it, because I can't think of literally anyone at the time who was against it, except for a handful of Quakers and then Wilberforce and some evangelicals. But it is important for us not because of one thing to condemn someone for everything. That's cancel culture, and that is not right. It doesn't mean we don't have to make a judgment. We've talked about that on this program. Sometimes you make a

judgment. Somebody was a bad person, okay? Stalin was a bad person just because he did some good things, just because Hitler loved his dog, Blondie. Like, that's not going to make me say, well, we need to give him a pass because he went, no, no, no. But in the cases of Washington and Whitfield, I think overwhelmingly, if we're honest, we have to say that even though we know that certain parts of their lives were grievously wrong, what they did must be praised, lauded, celebrated. They did some outrageous, outrageously wonderful things. And if you read those chapters and if you can keep it or in my book, seven more men or seven men on some of these figures, you just realized they did things that if they hadn't done these things, we would not ourselves have freedom and self-government today. And I actually

believed the government that ended up fighting a war to end slavery would never have done that, would never have come into existence and had the ability to say, we need to end this. We need to fight a civil war where 600,000 white boys die because it's that important. Fortunately for you, folks, we're out of time. Thank you.