The Eric Metaxas Show - Glenn Packiam

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Pastor Glenn Packiam explains the guidance the ancient Nicene Creed provides in answering what a Christian is in the modern world.

Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Eric Mataxis show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with noble gold investments. That's noble gold investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Did you ever see the movie The Blobs starring Steve McQueen? The blood-curdling prep of The Plop. Well, way back when Eric had a small part in that film, but they had a count. is seen because the blob was supposed to eat him, but he kept spitting him out. Oh, the whole thing was just a disaster. Anyway, here's the guy who's not always that easy to digest.

Eric the Texas! Hey there, folks, welcome to the program. Are you excited? You should be excited. I don't know why you should be. I just know that you should be. Chris Heims, are you excited? I'm thrilled, man.

I'm stoked, as they say in California. Are you stoked, bro? What would Doug Giles? say. I don't know. I don't know. Whatever we would say, we would never think of it. Only Doug Giles would think of it. Look, seriously, folks.

He would use the word brosophis. That's all I got to say. There's a number of things that I want to relate now excitedly, okay, because I'm excited. Number one, a number of you have stepped up to give to food for the poor, but not everyone has. Here's the thing. We need everybody to do it. Everybody, unfortunately, includes you, folks. I don't make up the rules, okay?

These are the rules. You need to go to metaxis talk.com today. You'll see the banner, feed their future, metaxis talk.com today. If you prefer to call, I can give you a phone number. In fact, I will give you the phone number. But it's very important. So I want to give you some details on that in just a minute. I also want to mention excitedly that the cruise, the Greek cruise, June 6th to 16th,

which is mind-blowing. It is not sold out. But if you're interested at this late date, you need to call, right? So if you go to the website, Ericmetaxis.com slash cruise, Ericmataxis.com slash cruise. You'll see if you click through it says sold out. It's not sold out. There's a phone number there.

You need to call the phone number because for some reason now you got a call. So to inquire, you can go to Ericmataxis.com slash cruise and see the phone number. phone number and call it, or I'll just give you the phone number right now. What do you say? Here you go. Ready? 844-808-2058. 844-808-2058. I would call it sooner rather than later. 8448082058. There is an add-on that we're doing that you can actually just do the add-on and skip the cruise if you don't want to go on the cruise the enough time.

But we're doing it in Athens, three days in Athens, before the cruise. So before June 6th. So I think it's the fourth, fifth, and sixth, or the third, fourth, and fifth. We're doing Socrates in Athens. speaking of Socrates and City, we're doing Socrates and City in New York in May. We're doing a Socrates and City in Lexington, Kentucky in April.

All kinds of stuff. Got to go to SocratesandCity.com for all that information. But the cruise, if you're interested, I would call 8448082058. It is definitely not sold out, but you have to call 844808. 2058. I also want to mention excitedly our friend Mike Lindell. If you know Mike Lindell, he's a hero, and we've had him on the program many times. But I want to encourage you or remind you that if you buy anything from my store.com or my pillow.com, use the code Eric. This radio show needs your help and your support. So please tell your friends, if you buy towels or sheets or mattress

topers or my crosses or slippers or all the stuff that he sells, my store.com or my pillow. com use the code Eric. And speaking of my store.com, there are some amazing prices on my books there. So if you go to my store.com, my miracles book, the Donald drains the The Swamp book. The Donald builds the wall book. The Donald and the fake news book. The Birthday ABC. Oh, my gosh.

The Birthday ABC. Have you seen that one? I should talk about it more. It is so gorgeous. And actually, we are scheduled to have Mike Lindell back on the show in the coming weeks. We're excited to get him back on. We're talking to his booker.

Do you think John Smirak is scary? Yeah. I once interviewed Mike Lindell. in front of like 800 people in a ballroom. It was like wrestling two greased grizzly bears. That sounds impossible. Like it couldn't be done. That's correct.

That's exactly correct. You know, we refer to John Zemirac as the Kraken. Mike Lindell is kind of like the Papa Crackin. Yeah, he's like a pair of greased grizzly bears. Good luck wrestling them. Anyway, but if you're interested in supporting the hero patriot, Mike Lindell, go to my store.com, my pillow.com. please use the code.

Eric. And if you are interested in helping our friends at food for the poor, actually you're not helping our friends at food for the poor. You're helping hungry children. Literally, you're feeding hungry children. You go to metaxis talk.com and click on the banner. This is mandatory. Actually, I want to play a clip.

James, I don't know if we have that clip. But let me just say this, right? just to break it down in case you haven't heard this before. This is urgent. In El Salvador, skyrocketing food prices have made challenges for people living in vulnerable conditions even worse, right? So creating more poverty, more food insecurity, to use a term, chronic malnutrition. Imagine, that should not be a problem in the world today, malnutrition.

Chronic malnutrition affects 10% of all. all kids under five years old in El Salvador. 10% have chronic malnutrition. So basically, that's where Food for the Poor comes in. That's where you come in. You're literally saving lives, changing lives. But I want to play a clip one of Food for the Poor's ministry partners on the ground. Her name is Carla.

She is in El Salvador where we are focusing right now. Let me play that clip. Here's Carla. Because El Salvador ranked as one of the top. and most vulnerable countries worldwide. So the well-being of the most vulnerable population is always threatened. On a yearly basis, we understand this is going to be a recurring problem in North Salvador. So having your support gives us a lot of confidence that we can face struggles

and support this vulnerable population without delays. Okay, folks, so would you please jump in with us today? This is exciting. You should be excited. that you out of your treasure can bless kids who are literally hungry and malnourished. That should not happen. And we have it in our power to do something about it. I will throw this out there again.

I've said it before. Everybody can give something. There are rare people who can give $15,000. If you can do that or if you want to do that, you want to gather with some friends, maybe three couples want to throw in five each. I will have dinner with you, spend an evening with you. I'm traveling like crazy. I was looking at my schedule.

So we can do it in New York if you want to come to New York. I'll be in Lexington, Kentucky. I'll be in Winachi, Washington State. I'll be in Rome, Georgia. I'll be in Grand Rapids. I'll be in Ocean City, New Jersey. I go all over the country. That doesn't stop.

We can find a time together. and spend the evening together. If anybody can give $15,000 to this work, to this campaign with food for the poor. Once the campaign is over, this offer is over. So I cannot, you know, a month from now, you know, somebody says, oh, I want to give this. It has to be done like now. Otherwise, the offer does not stand.

I'm simply busy. And I've had the privilege to sit in on a couple of the dinners. and honestly, they have been some of the more memorable, you know, dinners we've had. And I think you sort of like make a new friend that you can't believe you didn't have. You know, it's like, how did I not know this person was out there? So it's really a wonderful time. Well, it's just a way that I get to thank people and it gives me joy. It's something that I can do.

It's not easy, but I will figure it out. But you have to go to metaxus talk.com and MetaxusTalk.com. and Metaxistock.com, click on the banner. Or you can call them. I mean, if you want to give a gigantic gift, whatever, it's probably better to call them. The number is 844-863-4-6-7-3. But every gift, every single person listening,

can give something. And I wish you would do that, folks. Please do it. 844-8663-4863-4673. 844-8-6-3-4-6-7-3. 844-8-6-7-3. This is urgent, folks. Thank you.

This is your chance to grab incredible deals on some of MyPillows most popular and newly released items. For example, save $40 on the new Spring My Pillow bed sheets available in any size and any color. These luxurious sheets are designed for maximum comfort and breathability, perfect for a great night's sleep. Are you looking for a meaningful gift? Save 30% on the brand new My Crosses, inspired by the one Mike has worn every day for over 20 years. These beautifully crafted crosses come in both men's and women's designs and are proudly made in the USA. get the six-piece bath or kitchen towel sets for just 2998. Initial quantities are extremely limited, so don't wait.

And don't forget the best-selling standard MyPillow, now just 1498. Plus, orders over $75 ship free. Go to MyPillow.com. Use promo code Eric or call 800-9783057 to order now. MyPillow.com use promo code Eric or call 800-978-3057. A generation of kids in El Salvador are lost to malnutrition, and the only way to a better future is through a school feeding program. Join me, Eric Metaxus, in saving lives with food for the poor.

When you click the Feed Their Future banner at Metaxus talk.com, your gift of $100 will provide a child in El Salvador with daily school nutrition for a year. Call 844-863-4673. Make your most generous contribution, please. The nutrition these kids get in school is often their only meal of the day. Food for the Poor School Nutrition effectively addresses malnutrition

and increases children's school attendance. Your donation will also support local farmers who produce the nutritional supplements. You are needed to improve children's nutrition in El Salvador. Your gift will allow them to focus on learning rather than worrying about their next meal. Today, you have the power to feed a child

or an entire classroom for a year. Please click the blue banner at metaxus talk.com or call 844-863. 4673 with a gift of $100 to feed their future. You sheltered me from home. Hey folks, welcome back. I'm at the NRB in Dallas. And you don't have to be at the NRB in Dallas to hear the conversation about to have

because Enrico Marconi invented, he discovered radio waves and were able to communicate with you wherever you are. It's an amazing thing. A lot of people don't know about it, but it's exciting. I get to sit here, for example, and have a conversation with some of the radio waves. and I've just met Pastor Glenn Pachiam, who's written a book called What's a Christian Anyway, finding our way in an age of confusion and corruption. And something tells me, Glenn, that this book is, in fact, about the Nicene Creed.

It is indeed about the Nicene Creed. Now, why is that night in the title? You're just trying to confuse people or be subtle? What's going on? I think there's a lot of people who don't know the story of the Nicene Creed. There's people who may have an aversion about the Creed, but what they may not recognize is that it came in a time when the church was growing and people were gaining popularity, but lacking credibility, not always the connection to the faith

of the first followers of Jesus. So when the council sat down to write these words down, they were codifying it for all future generations, and that can serve us in our confusing times today. Well, this is interesting, because, I mean, I think, I hope most Christians know about the Nicene Creed. It's kind of a real statement in a sense about American Christianity that a lot of folks wouldn't know about it. So roughly, I mean, when was the Council of Nicaea? 325 AD. It gets expanded slightly in 381, and that's the final form. The Nicene-Continople Crete, or the Nicene Creed, for short.

So when it was... Let's just talk about the history of it, because a lot of people don't understand this. So it's three centuries after the time of Jesus. And the... I'm trying to think, when does Constantine come in? Yeah, I mean, Constantine convenes the council, but he doesn't... And he's made Christianity no longer illegal. Okay.

So he's not yet the official religion. Okay. So I always want to get the chronology. Yes. So, ladies and gentlemen, just so you're tracking it home, right? The Roman Empire was utterly hostile, as you'll remember, to the Christian faith. And they persecuted, tortured, and murdered Christians. Then Constantine comes in around, what, a little bit after 300 AD. And he suddenly says Christianity is no longer illegal.

That's right. Eventually he makes it the official religion of the Roman Empire, which is crazy, and we can talk about that. But what was it that pushed him as the Roman emperor to say we need an official doctrine of the faith? We need an official creed. I mean, there's a lot of people who disagree about why Constantine himself turned to Christ, but I think the value of convening this council is he understood what Christians were claiming was something unique, that that ancient world had not seen before. There were other regional gods that could make sort of promises

to deliver on smaller things, a victory here, fertility here or there. But the Christian claim was much more startling than that. And he recognized, I think, in it, the capacity to unify people that otherwise were not unified in a very stratified society. And so he was saying, okay, guys, you need to get this out and work this out. But the thing is, Christians already had this. They had the documents of the New Testament were already accepted by this time.

So the same counsel that confirms the New Testament pulls these phrases from the New Testament and puts it together in a creed. Okay, sometimes I forget about this, that the canon, what we call the canon of scripture, was officially determined in Nicaea at the same time that they wrote the Nicene Creed. And it's an interesting thing because a lot of people don't realize, you know, when we talk about the Bible, the Bible, the Bible, well, where did that come from? Who said what is the Bible? Who said that the Gospel of Thomas is heretical and should never be in the Bible? Correct. Who said that these other books are apocryphal, that they are not the Word of God? And who said this is the Word of God?

That's fascinating right there. It's totally fascinating because some people try to make it sound like, oh, well, it was a power play by the Empire. No, it's not true. The Christians already had a lens for sorting through which books belonged and which books didn't belong. And they knew Paul's letters were to be treated like scripture. That was already part of it. So this council, the reason Creed and Canon belonged together, other is the creed kind of provides bumper lanes for reading the Bible. You can't read the Bible

in a way that contradicts the virgin birth or the resurrection or the nature of God. I love what you just said provides bumper lanes because that's true because you say, why do I need a creed? Because I could see so many religious Christians. I say that in the negative sense. I don't need any creed. I got the word of God. It's like, really? Hot shot. Well, how do you know, you know, these doctrines and these things like, well, it's all very clear? No, it's not very clear. You need people to tell you what does this actually say? What does this mean? Well, in our day to day, the reason I'm saying the church has lost its way is precisely because we have no tether. We have no way to anchor ourselves in. So anybody, here we are at NRB, these are people using the radio and media for good.

But there's other people who say, well, it's all about the clicks and the likes and the views. So you've got TikTokers and YouTubers who have popularity but no credibility. And Christians are being persuaded by the wrong voices. Right. Well, so why is the title of your book, What's a Christian, anyway. I believe there's two crosswinds at work in our cultural moment. There's the crosswind of corruption. And when I say that, I mean the church is, we've seen leaders fall, we've seen scandals happen, we've seen Christianity get co-opted by social agendas and things like that. So there's a wind of corruption. But then there's a wind of confusion. And that's this plethora of

voices. And when I hear people say to me, and a lot of young people will sometimes say to me, Eric, I think I'm done with Christianity. If I'm given the chance as a pastor as a friend, I go, Tell me about the faith you're leaving. Chances are it may not actually be Christianity. That's right. No, I have to say it's an extraordinary thing that there are many people that they've, I think because I came to faith later in life on my 25th birthday, I sometimes have trouble sympathizing with people who've kind of grown up in a compromised church or whatever.

So they're rejecting that. Yes. They're not really rejecting Jesus. They don't really know Jesus to reject him. They're just rejecting this, some kind of a system or some kind of a culture. That's right. And even if they're not rejecting Jesus, and they go, well, I can't deal with the church anymore. What you mean is your particular expression.

And I'm not minimizing people's pain. I'm really sorry for the pain that people have experienced. What I want to say is the story of the church is actually much bigger than the story of your local church. And I don't say that lightly. I was at a church in the early 2000s where the founding senior pastor had a really public moral failure. So I get it. Yeah. Well, I want to ask you, I always want to ask people who've written books and our pastors,

what is your faith story? because right now I'm introducing you as pastor Glenn Pachiam, author of What's a Christian Anyway? But how did you become a Christian? What was your faith journey? I grew up in Malaysia, Eric, and Christians are only about 10% of the population. It's a Muslim country. It's the official religion. There's Hindus and there's Buddhists. There's religious tolerance.

Not religious freedom, but religious tolerance. So you could be a Christian, but you couldn't try to proselytize. You couldn't try to convert a Muslim. So the majority of Christians in Malaysia are former Buddhists or former Hindus. Okay, so, and that's the story of my dad. My dad was a Hindu, and my mom was an Anglican, a Christian, nominal, but they met at the University of Singapore, and basically my dad had this amazing conversion experience. So by the time my sister and I came along, we grew up in this Christian home, and we were

given a faith that was maybe a little more global than the average American Christian and certainly more historical because of some of that Anglican connection from my mom's side of the family. Wow, it's interesting. And so when did you come to the States? I came at two different times. I came at 10 years old. My family. My parents went to Bible College in the Pacific Northwest, so we moved there. We lived there for three years. Move back to Malaysia. And then I came back to the States at 17 on my own to go to college. After that, had a religious workers visa at the church in Colorado. My wife from college, my college sweetheart, we got married. And so then, you know, Green Card. Then I became a citizen in 2009 or 2010, you know, the whole thing. So I've been in the states continuously now since 1996. Well, so did you know that you wanted to be a pastor when you were a young man?

Did you already know? My earliest sense of call, Eric, was that I wanted to be a missionary. I look back at it now in my 40s and I go, you know what? I think that's about right. I think I am living as a missionary in the West. Well, yeah, absolutely. In the culture in which we live today, there's a lot of missionary work that needs to happen. Okay, so let's talk more about the book.

What's a Christian anyway? I mean, to what extent is this about the creed? It's line by line. by line through the creeds. So the goal for this here is, you know, I talked about these two crosswinds, Eric, they were old, in the old farming days, and my father-in-law farmed for 50 years in Iowa, in the Midwest. In the old farming days, the blizzards would roll in and it'd be so strong, if you had to go out to the barn, you'd lose your way back to the house. And so you'd have to put up a rope between the house and the barn to help you find your way. And this is the situation I think the church is in today, is we're out

wandering outside, but it's a cultural blizzard out there. And there's a lot of Christians who are who are wandering in the cold can't find their way home, and they're about to die out in the cold. So the creed is the rope that the early Christians left for us. They left us a rope so that we could find our way home. Well, the creed, it's interesting because I grew up in the Greek Orthodox Church, and we recited the creed in Greek and in English. I learned it when I was eight years old.

My father helped me to memorize the Greek creed no, Pistevo and San Antonio, patero, patero, but no, crater, that I'll be dinu, nuk. It's this beautiful. It's beautiful. But what's so funny to me, I mean, to this day, I laugh. It's like, it's like teaching phrases to a parent. I didn't know what it meant.

So it's kind of people's like, you need to read the word. You need to memorize the scripture. That's nice. But you also need to know what it means, and now you need to live it out, right? Yes. But it's kind of funny. So I memorized it. And so it's been a part of my life without, you know, really without thinking about it.

But it's a sacred thing. And I think a lot of evangelicals do not appreciate the creeds. They don't get it. Again, they have this kind of cocky attitude. Like, we got the Word of God. What do I need the creed for? What do I need the creed? It's like, well, you're not the first one to come up with this.

I love that you said Greek Orthodox, Eric, and I knew that about your story. But to hear you reciting Greek is pretty special. That's pretty cool. Because this is a creed that's, you know, you talk about Catholics, you talk about Protestants, you talk about Orthodox. This is the confession of faith that unites. It's the big canopy over all of us. and if nothing else, it helps the average evangelical American Christian recognize you're not the first one.

You didn't make this up. And it doesn't all depend on you. It didn't all begin at Azusa Street. We'll be right back. I'm talking to Pastor Glenn Pachium, who's the author of a brand new book, What's a Christian Anyway, Find an Air Way in an Age of Confusion and Corruption. And so you go through the Nicene Creed. And again, we're talking about the creed. And the funny thing is when I had my born-again experience, you know, around my 25th birthday, and people would ask me, what kind of a Christian are you? Are you a Christian? I said, listen, anybody who believes in the word God, anybody who, you know, like, I'm not about this group or that group or whatever. And I often would say, like, you believe the creed? Like, if you believe that, that's called, that's Christianity, basically. That's the theology that's necessary to be a Christian.

Yeah. But again, it is interesting that you have the Roman emperor calling Christians from across the empire together to say, guys, we need to get this written down so that there's some sense of, and look, you and I have to be clear with the audience. We believe that the Holy Spirit led this, just as much as he led the canon of scripture. And this is not men deciding stuff that it was apart from God. This was really asking the Lord to lead them. How can we put in a creed the most important thing so that when people recite this through the generations, through the sense, centuries that people will understand this is what the Christian faith is. Yeah, and I think

it's helpful to people to know that the actual phrases in the creed are literally from the pages of the New Testament. So readers of the Bible will recognize, oh, that's from John 1, or that's Colossians 1, that's Hebrews 1. So that's in there. And the unifying factor is important. You know, think of a wagon wheel where at the hub and the spokes go away from it, the more we emphasize our points of difference, the farther we get from one another. The more we move towards the center, the closer we get to one another. Our point, we're going to be. Our point. importance of difference among different Christian tribes and all, that's fine. Those things matter, but they don't matter as much as the things that unite us. The creed doesn't say anything about

speaking in tongues. Nope. I speak in tongues. I believe that's biblical. It's not in the creed. But, you know, yes, we still, we have to understand what it is we're talking about. Now, there's some things that you say in the book that I want to ask you, you say the gospel is only believable when Christians live it. This is like, a thing for me. So talk about that. Well, Eric, you mentioned earlier about kind of memorizing the words. The power's not in the words by themselves. It's when we activate it with our faith in our own hearts. This book came out of two different sermon series that I did, two different churches, one in Colorado, one in

California, 10 years apart, okay? The first one was the church after, in the wake of a scandal of the founding senior pastor. So that first series was much more about, man, how do I trust you? How do I trust anybody? And I was saying, put your hands on this rope. trust in ancient faith. When I did it in California, it was a different kind of crosswind. It was this confusing thing. And so when I began to teach it in California, the emphasis was much more on not do you know these words, but how could you live like these words are true? So, you know, when you say a great amen at the end of the creed, our lives are the ongoing amen, you know? So we've got to call people who are living like crass consumers to go, that doesn't sound like

you believe that God is the source of everything. When you're living with your own sexuality or your own sort of idea of ethics or whatever, you're not living like Jesus is actually the king. And so there's all kinds of ways that the creed says this is not a confession you can say lightly. This is a confession that commands the surrender of your entire life. It's interesting. This has been, you know, the central message that, you know, I'm preaching in churches and speaking for the last two plus years.

And I've been hitting this so hard that, this is where the church gets off, it drifts away. And this whole idea of like, everybody needs to read the Bible. It's like, well, yeah, that's step number one. The devil can read the Bible. Hitler can read the Bible. So that really, that's not enough. So yeah, you need to read the Bible.

But you need to live the Bible. It's the same to people who can just study the Bible. Okay, study the Bible. But then you better live it. And I really feel that, and again, this, you know, because I've written about Martin Luther and Bonhofer, they talk about the German church, this emphasis on faith alone, faith alone. You're like, okay, yeah, it's faith alone.

What does that mean? Faith without works is dead. If you're not living it out, you're not fooling the God into thinking you have faith if you're not living it. If you're not living it, the Lord knows you do not have the faith. You dare to say you do. It's so helpful if people could think of faith as a pledge of allegiance. It's not just a words of confession.

So there's a story. I don't know if you remember this, Eric, but when King Charles was at his coroner, nation, the Archbishop of Canterbury was trying to put together a liturgy for the service. And he wanted to include in the service a place where the people would pledge their allegiance to the king. And there was this up for a people like, wait a minute, we don't want to pledge our allegiance to the king. Can we can't, how about we just say God save the king, you know? And I think this is how a lot of Christians are, is you're like, wait a minute, I have to actually pledge allegiance to Jesus. I actually actually have to live my life in surrender.

We don't want that. We just want Jesus to be like this mascot, like this logo. that we put on our chest, not a king that we bow our knee to. That's pretty heavy. And I do think, you know, you can tell how much somebody loves Jesus by how they live, by what they're giving up for him. And it's interesting because if you really know, if you really, really know what he's done for you and how much he loves you, you want to give him everything. And, you know, you mentioned sexuality.

In our culture, that's the big one. Correct. And it's a very sick culture because everyone feels like, I'm in time. to whatever, my sexuality, whether it's, you know, heterosexuality or other, it's like, no, you're not entitled to it. God is the one who decides what is right and wrong and how you can glorify him in your life. And you can really see the lack of faith in a lot of people by how far they're willing to go with that.

Yeah, that's exactly it. When it actually comes down to it, can we live like these words are true? Can we live like these words are true? There was a British missionary who lived in India for a long time. Leslie Newbigin, and he came back to England and was surprised at the pluralistic society that was taken over there. And he said, you know what, the only hermeneutic of the gospel. In other words, the only way people are going to trust the gospel is when people not just believe it, but live like it's true. We're going to be right back.

We're talking to Glenn Packiam. The book is What's a Christian Anyway? Hey there, folks. Welcome back talking to Pastor. Glenn Pachiam, who is at Rock Harbor Church in Costa Mesa, California. Let's talk more about what's in the book. I'm just fascinated with it. You know, Eric, when I think about the mission of the church in the world today,

I think the great experiment in Western societies is can we enjoy the fruit of a Christian worldview when we've been severed from the root of Christian confession? So we're living in America that says, I want equality, I want justice, I want all these things, but can we carry that out without a confession to the king? And I think what we're trying to say today as Christians is, look, there is a little bit of this return back to go, hey, let's get back to sort of maybe a Christian worldview at least for the practical benefits of society. No, that's okay. Maybe there's a level two people, you know, thought leaders who are saying, let's turn to Christianity because of its promise of

transcendence. I think that's okay too. But the final goal is we want to call people all the way up to go, you want to come to Christianity for the personal God. And that's what the creed does. The creed is not just a statement of faith. It's structured around Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And its whole goal for you is that you'd get caught up in the life of knowing this Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And that's what's so interesting, right?

It's not about theology. I mean, everybody says this, but it's just, you can't say it enough. It's not about theology. It's about a personal relationship. And just the other day, I was talking to my wife, and I was struck by the idea, that Jesus called, talked to, talked about the father, my father. And I think that was so radical. He's talking about my father in heaven.

And then he tells us to pray, Father in heaven. Father, you know, it even goes beyond a personal relationship. It's like with God, it's my father in heaven. That is so heavy. And you just talk about, um, how? what a revolutionary concept that is in world history? Unprecedented. I mean, even for the Jewish people,

they would have had some vague way of saying, oh yeah, Israel is my firstborn. God said, that's what I call it. But it still felt covenant God personal, but maybe a little distant. Jesus is saying, no, I'm getting you in on this very life of knowing the father. He can become your father.

I love the image C.S. Lewis gives us of when we pray. It's like we're praying to the Father. Jesus is alongside us as the Son and the spirit is behind us or within us propelling us forward. I mean, if a Christian could grasp that, and that's my hope with the creed, is these words of confession help you imagine that when you pray, when you worship,

when you open the Bible, you're surrounded by the life of the triune God. That's a great mystery that nothing in this world can compare to. Well, honestly, nothing can compare to it. And when people talk about the great religions of the world, I think what a load of garbage, the great religions of the world.

There's, you know, like there's truth in everything. but to compare the great religions. I mean, people are great, and people that are not of our tribe, they're great, God loves them. But this is, the Christian faith is utterly revolutionary. Unprecedented. Unprecedented. I mean, it's funny.

And listen, non-believers get that. Tom Holland wrote that big book came out a few years ago. He gets that. Like, this is as subversive and mind-blowing in history, in the history of the world. Christianity just, it's like the hangarer. grenade. When that went off, the landscape is changed forever. There's nothing else that can compare to it. The reason we value women, the reason we think about the vulnerable, the reason we care for the poor or the victim or the martyrs, the reason we think in terms of those categories at all

is because there was a God who became flesh and was crucified like a thief and a criminal and now can save us all. You know, that's one of the lines in the creed, Eric, it says, for us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven. And in that very paragraph, it names the only two names, human names in the entire creed. Virgin Mary and Pontius Pilate. And when I think about that, I think this is part of what's so radical about the love of God in revealed in Jesus. Virgin Mary, you could say, oh, that represents peasant girl, you know, lowest of the social spectrum, Pontius Pilate, highest, you put it, or maybe you flip it. You go, oh, Mary, she represents purity and pilot, he represents corruption. Yeah, but you know what? For us, for all of us and for our

salvation, he came down. That's revolutionary. I'm just thinking of the Greek, you you know, that I learned when I was eight years old, epipondiou Pilato, that's fenda, that's fendda, that I get choked up. I get choked up, man. It's so, it's,

these are the most powerful words in any language. It's just so powerful. He suffered and was buried and arose on the third day. It's like, what? Wow. What?

This is big. This is as big as it gets. Yeah. And it's just, It's so fascinating. It's so fascinating. Even the fact that you learned, the Greek Orthodox thing,

Eric, I got to be in Greece for the first time last year, and I went to ancient Corinth, and you see the ruins of these temples of the previous gods. Imagine a country or culture. I mean, you know this. This is your family story.

But like, do you think Apollo did that for you? No. You think all these other Greek gods that they did know. And that's why today, those temples are in ruins while there's church bells ringing all across Greece.

Yeah, no, it's so extraordinary. The revolution of the Christian faith. And it's funny because that's part of what needs to happen for revival. I think we're in the middle of revival. It's happening in America. And people have prophesied it. You see it. But it's recapturing what we're talking about. It's just awe of who God is and what he invites us into, which is, it's frankly unbelievable. And then it's like, well, no, he has invited us into a relationship with himself as his beloved. sons and daughters. It's an incomprehensible thing. It's so beautiful. What else can we talk about? We've got about a minute left in the book. I think, you know, the idea of saying, how do we live like this?

So what's a Christian anyway? You could say it's a person who's been loved by the father, saved by the son, filled by the spirit. You can say that. If you want to be a Jesus-centric way, you say belongs to Jesus, believes in Jesus, becomes like Jesus. But I think the real power is when we live in our communities, like these words are true. true. We start loving people like Jesus says. We start loving our enemy. We start being able to embody the good of another person, live for the good of another person. That is what transforms society. I'm grateful

for the structures that allow Christians to operate with that kind of freedom, but we must never sit on our laurels and think the work is done. The mission is not done until we actually call people to know this God for themselves. Well, and obviously, you said it, you said it a few minutes ago.

The gospel is only believable when Christians live it. it's not about talking about it. It's about living it in a way that it startles people when they see sacrificial love. Because it points to the one, you know, who gave his life sacrificial. But that's the biblical New Testament definition of divine love. Yes. To sacrifice yourself, you know, and it's so powerful when that happens.

I often think of my dad, you know, working hard and whatever. As a kid, that speaks to you. is like he's doing that for us? Whoa. I guess that means if he says something, I better do it. That gives you moral authority. So God has moral authority over us because he died for us. Well, we're at a time.

The book is What's a Christian Anyway? Pastor Glenn Pachium. Congratulations. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Eric. Folks, welcome back. I have the privilege of speaking with Paul Jacobs, who's been working with Food for the Poor for 15 years.

Now, Paul, what you just shared about food for the poor, that their logo is the Icthus fish. You wouldn't know this, but that is deeply important to me in my life, in my faith journey with Jesus. Growing up in the Greek Orthodox Church, I remember my dad pointing out on the back of a car, I wrote about this in one of my books, my book, Fish Out of Water.

He points, this is in the late 70s. On the back of a car, there's an Icthys on the back of a car. And I remember like it was yesterday where we were, where we were, getting off the highway. And he says, you see that, that fish, that is the ancient Christian symbol for Jesus, for Christians. And he explained to me the Greek words, the acronym Iqvthis, Jesus Christos, theyos imon so tier, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, our Savior. And from that moment, that fish symbol meant so much to me because it's a Greek word. and I'm proud as a Greek of that. And then I won't tell the story now,

but I've told it before. My conversion in the summer of 1988, the Lord spoke to me in a dream, and he used that fish symbol to completely blow my mind to reveal himself to me. I know if people go to my website, ericmataxis.com, there's a video or two where I talk about that.

But I didn't realize that food for the poor had that symbol. And of course, it's appropriate for food for the poor, because when we see the fish, we think of the loaves and the fishes. We think of feeding the 5,000. So I'm glad you shared that with me. And you said the headquarters for Food for the Poor, where you live are in South Florida.

Yes. Yeah, we're in South Florida. We're headquartered here, but we operate in 15 countries across Latin America and the Caribbean. It's interesting. I've had the pleasure of traveling to many of the countries in Haiti and Nicaragua. in in South, excuse me, in Honduras and Guatemala. It's amazing when we talk about the work that we do

and the pastors and local ministries that we work with. What is striking to me is much like your pastor, those of you who attend a local church and you have your pastor and your community church, they work around the clock. It's not a nine to five job. It's a working in the community, with the community, among the people.

And we see that here in the community. And El Salvador is no different. Our partners there working with these communities seven days a week, working with these farmers. Your gift of $100 is feeding a child in a school system, giving them the proper nutrition to save their lives. Life altering is what it is. But it's also going to make sure that a community thrive. And as you said, Eric, earlier in an earlier segment that it's going to keep these families in their communities because they're thriving in the communities. And also, it's going to uplift the economy through the farmers and local markets that are going to be property.

because you're helping provide those farmers and the means to be able to grow those crops and provide nutrition for children. Well, right. So this is kind of long-term stuff, folks. So you're not just, you know, throwing money at a problem. You're paying money to fix the problem. And that's, you know, that's the standard thing. It's a cliche, right?

You give a man fish. You feed him for a day. You teach a man to fish. You change his life. And that's part of what is happening. and that's what Food for the Poor is doing. The action point, folks, we're asking food for the poor is suggesting $100 as a one-time gift. Can you do that?

Some of you can do a lot more than that. Some of you, maybe you can't do that. What can you do? Whatever you can do, would you do it today? Metaxistocococon.com is the website. It's my radio website. Right at the page, top of the page, you see a banner. feed their future. Metaxus talk.com. This is the Lord's work, folks. This is the Lord's work.

Nobody's making money off of this. This is faithfulness to Jesus, to his command in Matthew 2540, whatever you do to the least of these. That's powerful. So the website's metaxis talk.com 863-4673, 844-864-6373. Please do it.