The Eric Metaxas Show - Gordon G. Chang

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Gordon G. Chang, who's lived and worked in China and Hong Kong for decades and is author of "The Great U.S.-China Tech War," details horror stories of oppression behind the Chinese Government's facade of respectability.

Eric Metaxus show with your host, Eric Metaxus. Oh, hello. It's our one of the Eric Mataxis show. Guys, I don't know about you, but the pollen is affecting me so much. Yesterday, today, the day before, I don't know what to do. I took a Zyrtec, nothing. Yeah. Nothing.

Oh, Zirtec usually works for me. Yeah. It usually does. Nothing. No, I'm just like, I'm in a fog. I'm sure no one can tell because we're so professional. But listen, today, this is, folks, I've tried to get this guy for a long time. Gordon Chang, he is the expert on China.

And he's the only person that I have known who is a real expert on China, who's been speaking out against the Chinese communist regime with tremendous clarity and force. Important, if I may say so. Yeah, we're going to get some behind the scenes looks at what's really going on over there because he does know this. I can't. I just have to say, I cannot imagine that the whole world is not up in arms over what they are doing in China around the world. It's just astonishing to me that people are not talking about this. And I always find it strange.

Why would we be the only people talking about this the way we're going to talk about it today? I don't get it. But stay tuned. Gordon Chang coming up. Very important. We're going to post that on YouTube. Chris, we'll be able to post that on YouTube? I can't even remember.

I think that's going to go on Rumble. I asked them some questions about the election. We might have to take that out. Yeah. Yeah, I think we'll put it on Rumble, the full version and probably a shorter version on YouTube. Okay, sounds good. And then, um, yeah, folks have to be, get them both.

Please subscribe to Rumble and to YouTube. But here's the thing. I say this, I'm going to start saying, go to Air, Markmetaxis.com sign up for my newsletter. It's the only way you'll just get everything sent to you and you don't have to post on YouTube. We've got to post them on Rumble or on Frank speech, whatever it is. We'll send you all the links to everything. That's what we do. But you have to sign up for a newsletter. Go to Ericmataxis.com. Please do that because you're missing some stuff. Tomorrow we're going to play. I'm going to interview Tim Eaton. Now, Tim is the head of Nutrametics. And I want to get him on again as soon as possible because we're going to play. I'm going to interview Tim Eaton. I'm going to interview Tim Eaton. And I want to get him on again as soon as possible because. we had to cut off the interview. He has some crazy miracle stories, amazing stories. I mean, this guy is amazing. It's our new sponsor, new Tremedics.

Obviously, you're... Have I mentioned Mike Lindell on this program? Maybe I've never mentioned him, but I should. Mike Lindel, please go to Mypillow.com or MyStore.com tomorrow on this program. And then we're going to air Amanda Grace. Oh, my gosh. Amanda Grace. Go to Amanda Grace on YouTube.

She is prophetic. She's really... funny, sometimes unintentionally, which is why we love her. She's just great. Can I ask you, I got to ask you something real quick, Eric, are you not on Amanda Grace's show as well on Friday? Oh, yeah. I guess on Friday to be on her show. Yeah. Friday I'm going to be. I don't know what she wants to ask me about. I'm not prophetic. I'm pathetic. But here's the issue. She sent me a photograph of her pig. She has a 160 pound beautiful, what does she call? call it a Juliana Pig and it's sleeping on a Mike Lindell, My Pillow, Pet Pillow, the huge kind.

So Amanda Grace has one. John Zmirak has two for the Beagles. We've got one for Georgie. Mike Pillars is coming up an hour two today. So that's, I mean, that's going to be exciting as well. So it's a big, big day on the big show. John Smirak's coming up an hour. Now, the other reason I keep saying people should go to Eric Matak.

sign up for my newsletter is it tells you where I will be. For example, I'm going to be in South Carolina. Tomorrow I'm flying to South Carolina after we do the show here. And I'm speaking at a luncheon event. It might be a closed event. I don't know. But if you go to my website, we will be, you know, we post everything on the website under speaking.

But if you sign up for the newsletter, we send all this kind of stuff. Next week, I'm going to Houston. It's amazing to me. I'm traveling more than a body should. I'm going to Houston. We're going to be at the NRB in Dallas in June. The three of us are going to be there. The three being you, Chris, you, Albin, and yours truly and me.

Actually, that's four. So we're going to be there at the NRAB. In cowboy boots. We'll be the ones in cowboy boots. The only one, right. All these ones in cowboy boots. That's right. And chaps.

We're going to have chaps. No chaps. No chaps. Thanks for bringing that up. So we're going to be there. And I don't know who else is going to be there, but it's going to be fun. It's going to be. That's the NRB in Dallas.

The NRB is the National Religious Broadcasting Association. You know who should show up is President Trump. He should show up. Actually, no joke. You're right. I think, yeah. You know what? You're absolutely right.

And it would be lunacy. And I would interview him on the big stage. Okay. So what else? What else? Have we ever, have we ever been stuck? Oh, we keep forgetting to tell people if you want to buy, well, I haven't forgotten this, but I want to remind people.

Albin, you have been working with the store. It's called Shop Metaxus. Yeah, shopped metaxus. They've got hats, t-shirts, mugs, priced really low, I have to say. I can't imagine we're making any profit on this, but hey, it's there, folks. So it's all there. Albin, your six book box set signed. Yes.

Hamster Holmes is there. Hamster Holmes. And if you want to get my books, most of them are available at my store.com, not to be confused with Shopman, Texas. Shopmettaxas is just, it's the radio show. MyStore.com, of course, that's Mike Lindell's, you know, Amazon wannabe thing. He has not ramped that up yet, as you'll see. When you go, there's just a few products and my books, but that's going to, that's going to explode. They just posted my speech at frankspeech.com.

It was posted last night. Oh, great. I don't know if it's the pollen that's affecting me, but when I watched it, I was like, ugh, I hate this. It's true. No, no. When you sing the two, when you sing the two, he-haw songs, that alone, People have to tune in for that for you singing the he-haw song.

We're not joking, folks. We are not joking. Joe Piscopo went out there, and I've never seen anything like it. He have Italian Joe Piscopo singing Frank Sinatra. And the crowd, he literally asked the crowd, how many Italians out there? One guy gingerly raised his hand. An olive-skinned hand came up from the crowd. It was the weirdest thing, and I thought to myself, this is not a joke.

Episcopo, Eric Metaxus, New York kind of crowd. No. Maybe I better sing some he-ha. So I did. I sang two he-ha songs. And the coolest thing is the crowd sang it with me loudly. Yeah. They interspersed.

When you sing the song, gloomed a sparrow agony on me, that song. Yeah. They did the moaning. That if you watch he-ha, there's that, uh, that moaning thing. The crowd did the moaning thing. I learned something about my wife. I did not know because she's kind of sophisticated. I did not know that she had watched He-Hog growing up like I did as well.

And by the way, you were in fine voice. You were in very fine voice. I'm glad to hear that. I'm not kidding. The pollen makes me sort of depressed, cranky, confused, foggy, all that great stuff. And so when I was watching it yesterday, I finally thought it was like, ah, eh. So thank you for making me feel less horrible. It was great.

You were your own warm-up act. And then what you had to say about the country and where we're headed, oh, my goodness. People have got to tune in. It's only about like 30, 40 minutes long, but it's well worth the time. Yeah, yeah. Well, I had my friend, Paul Erickson was down front. He lives in South Dakota, so he kind of came with me.

And he was down front, like, giving me the, like, he got five minutes, he got five minutes. I didn't see him once until the last time I looked down. I was like, oops, he was obviously down there, like trying to get my attention. They put a clock, Brandon Howes. He said, I'll get a clock set up for you. He put the clock literally at my feet. So my eyes don't go straight down.

I have to look out. So I never saw the clock. But somehow, I did it on time. When we come back, folks, a really serious conversation. No kidding. Gordon Chang, an hour two, the amazing Johns Mirac. That's one of the greatest interviews we did that yesterday. Don't go away.

Hey there, folks. Eric Metaxus here. I'd like to introduce you to Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993 and now available. to you. Now, many of you already take supplements. Switch to Nutrametics. It's the highest quality, yes, and they donate 50% of their profits. It's critical, for example, to have a strong immune system. Neutrametics is immune support kit of vitamin C, vitamin DK, and zinc will give your immune system the boost it needs. Get 20% off by using the code Eric during checkout. Nutrametics.com. Use the code Eric to get 20%

off. Go ahead. Hey there, folks. How many years have I been telling you about relief factor? What, like for the truth is I know there are millions of people in fact some say over a hundred million people struggling with some kind of pain maybe from exercise just getting older that could do it getting older which is why I am so impressed with Pete and Seth Talbot they are on a mission you rarely see this kind of focus and commitment seriously they recently shared with me that they are doubling down and want to literally double their total number of happy customers in the next year and I believe they'll do it so here's the deal if you're struggling with back neck shoulder hip or knee pain even general muscle, aches and pains, then I'm suggesting you order their three-week quick start,

still discounted to only 1995, about a dollar a day to see if we can get you out of pain too. And then after that, less than the cost of a cup of coffee, a day to stay at a pain. Go to relieffactor.com, relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 8384. Relieffactor.com, 800, 500, 8384. I use it. It works. Check it out. Folks, welcome back, as promised, a genuine expert on China and everything that surrounds the issue of China and the world. Gordon Chang, welcome to this program.

Thank you so much, Eric. I've been following you for a long time, and you're the only person out there, as far as I can tell, who understands the impossible. to exaggerate significance of the threat of China right now. If you don't mind, just give my audience the briefest summary of how it is that you come to know this issue. I assume that you are part Chinese because of your last name, Chang. Yes, I'm half Chinese. I'm Gordon Guthrie Chang.

and my mother was American of Scottish descent. My dad came from just a little north of Shanghai in a place called Bougou in Jansu province. And there are other people who know about China more than I do. But the way that my wife and I came to our understanding of this was when we actually moved to China. That was August 1996. And I was working for a law firm then. And, you know, I just thought, everything was great. I can remember my wife on the phone saying, mom, China's not communist anymore.

And I agreed with her. And this is what my client said as they would buzz into Shanghai, stay at the Grand Hyatt, which is one of the most spectacular hotels in the world. And they'd say, China's not communist. But as we lived there, work there, traveled around the country, got to know it, we realized that there was a reality, which was very different from the image. and we saw that China eventually was moving in the wrong direction. And we left in 2001. So this is just sort of, I guess, familiarity breeds a little bit of reality. And so we saw China very different from the one that is portrayed in our media.

Well, don't we have to be honest and say that it's because of the Clintons and the Bushes. And it was a kind of a naivete on the left with regard to evil and anivet on the right with regard to what the free market can do unmoored from values and principles and virtue. And so it was the perfect storm that created this, the monster that we have today, that in the 90s it was possible to think that China was going in a different direction. Yes. And it was a very different China than it is today. But the nature of the social. system hasn't changed, Eric. And this is important for us to understand as we look at Chinese communism, that it is a system that you say, it's evil. It is evil. It is malicious. It is willing to do anything to obtain its ends. It's willing to kill anybody. And we saw that, for instance, with COVID-19, where we don't know the origin of this pathogen, but one thing we do know for sure,

and that Xi Jinping deliberately took steps to spread this disease beyond his borders. So we're talking about 3.2 million deaths, and those deaths constitute mass murder. Why are you practically the only one speaking as clearly about this? Really, we use the word evil because there really is no other word. When you're talking about someone who has no principles but power, and they're willing to kill their own people and foreigners. I don't know what you call it, but evil, but it stems from the worldview. It's sort of an atheistic worldview.

The Nazis, if they had the technology, would have done some of what the Chinese communists are doing today, but they didn't have that technology. So why doesn't the mainstream media or even the conservative media, whether Fox or they don't seem to be hitting this nearly as hard as it deserves? Well, I can't speak for others. But I do think that there is a problem. And this cuts across the political spectrum. This cuts across all of society, especially in democracies. We have a very hard time understanding the concept of evil. And we have this notion that, you know, we're just all people. We all want to get along. And yes, I think that's true of the Chinese people. But it's certainly not true of China's communist, regime. And so it is, I think, a failing of people in free societies to understand just outside world. We have seen this not only with regard to China. We've seen this with Al-Qaeda and in other events in our history. We just fail to recognize our enemies. Well, yeah, I mean, they're not only

our enemies, but they're the enemies of truth, goodness. You know, it's hard for us in America who've been so blessed to comprehend this level of malevolence. I think it's fair to say that it's because we've been blessed for decades upon decades, that we really have no grasp unless you have roots or parents or memory. I do through my mother and father in Europe. And it seems that you do, whether through your father or simply studying history. Yeah, it's through my father, because my father, He came to the U.S. February 1945, aboard a liberty ship.

And he couldn't go back because of the Civil War, Communist Revolution. And he talked about this when I was young. So that was a grounding. And also just going to China, as I mentioned before, was a real eye-opener looking at the reality of the regime rather than the facade of it. So I guess we put that all together. You know, this is just, this is something where we face an existential challenge to our society. We could lose our republic. And we're not aware of just how, as you say, malevolent China is because it is malicious

to a degree that most Americans can't comprehend. You said earlier that the Chinese leadership deliberately caused people to die through the China flu, Wuhan flu, COVID, whatever we want to call it, that they made a decision. For them, of course, it's a zero-sum game when you're talking about America and them. But you say that they chose to do that. Has that been reported anywhere? Has the conservative media been clear about that? Yeah, I've talked about this, for instance, on Fox and Newsmax, and I've written about this.

And this is, this is, I mean, as I said, there's just, it's just clear what they did. And if you want me to, I can go through it, just briefly, it's. If you don't mind, because I think a lot of people, you know, you hear things. But please, tell us how you think that they did this. Yeah. Chinese leaders admitted that this disease was transmissible of human to human only on January 20 of last year. But they knew no leader that, no later than the. second week of December of 2019 and maybe even in August of 2019, that this was a highly contagious

disease. Now, Eric, if they had said nothing about contagiousness during those five weeks or five months, that would have been grossly irresponsible. But what they tried to do was to convince the world it was not contagious. And at the same time, Xi Jinping pressured countries not to impose travel restrictions and quarantines on arrivals from China when he was locking down his own country. Now, I know there's a controversy over the effectiveness of lockdowns, but by locking down Wuhan and surrounding cities and other areas, in his mind, he thought he was stopping the spread of disease, which means that by pressuring countries to take passengers from China, he knew that he was spreading the disease because it was those passengers who took a disease that should have been confined to the central part of China and made it a global pandemic that has hit virtually every country on the planet. Now, there did some other things. After admitting transmissibility on January 20, they then tried to downplay it to say it wasn't that serious, no more serious than SARS, which was the 2002-2003 epidemic that killed only like 810 people. So these guys went out and did things that they had to know, or matter of fact, they may have in fact known, but they had to know that what they were doing would be to result in the deaths of others outside of China. So this was deliberate.

Well, again, that's saying a lot. But it strikes me as strange that our own government leadership hasn't spoken about this. Trump began to, but obviously he didn't have the time to do anything about it. We were dealing with the issue here. Yes. And, you know, Trump actually started to talk about this. But what is really distressing is that Biden, when he was, as soon as he took office. First day, he rejoined the World Health Organization, which helped China propagate

narratives that senior doctors at WHO knew were false, that narrative about non-transmissibility, all of these issues. Senior doctors at WHO have actually said they knew that this was highly contagious, but it was the political leadership of the WHO, World Health Organization, that supported China's narratives that were obviously false. So, and you know, Biden won't talk about the origin of this disease. He doesn't hold China accountable. He said he spoke two hours with Xi Jinping early in his term and didn't raise COVID-19 China virus. So that shows the failure of leadership. Forgive me, Gordon. We're going to go to a break. Folks, I'm talking to Gordon Chang. The issue is China. I would stay tuned if I were you. Don't go away.

Prescription dispensing labs is a national licensed pharmacy specializing in personalized prescription and natural medicine. The pharmacists at PD Labs are credited with formulating unique nasal sprays for the dreaded brain fog and a leader in uncovering new compounds to improve your health. PD Labs is one of the first pharmacies to now offer a telemedicine group trained in prevention medicine and how to restore your health. They have developed signature professional supplements that really work rather than just promotional advertising. PD Labs Pharmacy prides itself on innovation and amazing customer service that show dedication to your health. Today, everyone needs a choice in their health care, and they bring many refreshing options on how to maximize your body's amazing capabilities to bounce back. PD Labs has an extensive network of practitioners nationwide dedicated to true health care, not sick care. Visit their website, PD LabsRX.com for free health tips, podcasts, and their popular online store.

Call 888-909-1-1-0. Ask for Ray and tell them Eric sent you. That's 888-909-0-1-0. Hey there, folks. We're talking to Gordon Chang, who is really an expert on the issue of China and the evil of the Chinese communist government. Gordon, I have to ask you, with regard to WHO, the World Health Organization, very early on, anybody paying attention understood that this was one of these globalist organizations, kind of like the UN, if I can say so, that simply does not have the values that many people would expect them to have. They are, they really are, they're into moral equivalence. In other words, they're not really willing to condemn evil.

So why would China not be willing to be involved, for example, in trying to meddle with our elections? I just get the impression that we don't talk about any of these things in the mainstream media, nor on Fox or Newsmax. We've sort of pushed those things back. But it seems perfectly logical that if China is, you know, half of what you and I are saying they are, that they would want to be involved in anything they could, including undermining democracy through undermining elections. Well, they certainly did that last year, Eric.

So for instance, the New York Times reported that in March of last year, China through its social media feeds and text messages propagated a narrative that it knew was false. The false narrative was that President Trump was going to invoke his powers under the Stafford Act and locked down the entire country. And that certainly put President Trump in a bad light. But it's certainly much worse than that because they were inciting violence. A Radio Free Asia report says that an intelligence unit of the People's Liberation Army actually basically, themselves in the now-closed Houston Consulate. And from there, they use big data and artificial intelligence to identify Americans likely to participate in Black Lives Matter and in TIFA protest.

And then they sent them videos via TikTok on how to riot. Also, there are other indications that they were inciting violence on our streets. There are suspicious reports of all sorts of automatic weapons parts, counterfeit U.S. currency coming in from China. And we know that China, they were doing this during the election year. We know that nobody could do these things in China, counterfeit our currency without the regime knowing about it. You start putting all this together,

and it paints a very dark picture of what China did and could very well have affected the outcome of the presidential election last year. When you said that China was directly involved in trying to foment violence and rioting, You said from their Houston consulate. Tell us more about that. I have not heard about this. Yeah, this came, as I mentioned, from Radio Free Asia, which actually wrote a report in Chinese, which details all of this.

And this is consistent with other information that we have heard from other sources about China inciting violence. Just to give you an example, the European Bureau Chief of China Daily, actually on October 18th of last year, tweeted out, He was hoping that Americans would go on the streets and throw petrol bombs. And by the way, that guy was not, not de-platformed. So this is a clear, that was a clear incitement to violence. And we have other reports about how China's gone beyond mere excitement, but actually organized Chinese rioters. On the night of May 31st of last year, one block north of the White House,

when St. John's Church was burned, there were multiple reports of Chinese protesters speaking Mandarin, acting in obvious coordination, and being overheard that China organized their presence on our streets to riot. These reports remain unconfirmed, though I think that they are accurate. But we also know that they mirror other unconfirmed reports of Chinese protesters in Los Angeles and other Southern California locations engaging in violent protests and looting. So we needed an administration to investigate this because this is an act of war. This is not subversion.

This is an act of war. But we don't have an administration right now willing to look at this. But why do you think, Gordon, that you're such a lonely voice on this? In other words, it seems to me that what you're saying, even if it were possibly true, that the media generally would be reporting on this. Why do you think mainstream media seems to look the other way? with regard to China? I don't know.

I really don't know. I mean, you know, media generally is always involved in what people find interesting and what people are finding interesting these days are domestic politics. But what China's been doing does have a very strong domestic political angle to it, as we've just talked about. So I believe that it is a failure of Americans. And this is not just the media. It's Americans in general to understand.

what Beijing is doing. And that's why I'm so appreciative to you for having me on your show to talk about what I think are critical issues. Well, I mean, I think I have at least a patriotic duty to talk about this. But just beyond that, when I think of the people that are suffering in China, I think of the Uyghur Muslims and the Falun Gong people and Christians and others who are suffering horrible things. So to me, the idea that we look at them as a trade partner, that we're thinking about them in any kind of a positive light, it's staggering to me because we do have the ability through our economic strength to influence them. I believe Trump was beginning to do that, but that doesn't seem to be something anybody's talking about. The people who are suffering

in Uyghur, some of these camps where they're being kept, it just is amazing to me that the American media is not dealing with their suffering or talking about it. Yes, you know, there's more than a million Uyghurs and Kazakhstan and other Turkic minorities who have been detained in what are concentration camps. And we know they're dying in those camps, Eric, because China's building crematoria next to them. But it's not just the detention in those facilities. What we also are, is brutality, torture, enslavement. I want to continue.

We're going to a hard break here. Gordon Chang is my guest, folks, don't go away. Hey there, folks. How many years have I been telling you about relief factor? What, like four? The truth is, I know there are millions of people. In fact, some say over 100 million people struggling with some kind of pain, maybe from exercise, just getting older.

That could do it, getting older, which is why I am so impressed with Pete and Seth Talbot. They are on a mission. You rarely see this kind of focus and commitment. Seriously, they recently shared with me that they are doubling down and want to literally double their total number of happy customers in the next year. And I believe they'll do it. So here's the deal. If you're struggling with back, neck, shoulder, hip, or knee pain, even general muscle, aches and pains, then I'm suggesting you order

their three-week quick start, still discounted to only 1995, about a dollar a day to see if we can get you out of pain too. And then after that, less than the cost of a cup of coffee a day to stay at a pain. Go to relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 8384. Relieffactor.com. I use it, it works. Check it out. Folks, I'm talking to Gordon Chang. His middle initial is G. If you want to find him on Twitter, and you should, Gordon G. Chang.

If you can't spell Chang, see me after class because you're getting a failing mark. Gordon G. Chang on Twitter. Gordon, you've written books on China. You're not just somebody opining as I am. You've studied this deeply. You lived there for nearly two decades as a, professional, your father's from China. You seem to me, unfortunately, to be uniquely aware of the threat that they pose. I'm baffled really why people don't understand that liberty is at stake,

America is at stake, the Free West is at stake, and people act as though, you know, this is a side issue. Yes, I mean, to me, it certainly baffles me. We saw something similar with Al Al-Qaeda in the 1990s. Osama bin Laden and others just told us what they were going to do. And we were determined not to listen. Now, China is so much more powerful than al-Qaeda ever was. And so this is, as I'd say, it's an existential threat because China does have the power to destroy the American Republic.

And that's what its goal has been. So we Americans are on notice. China in May 2019, People's Daily, the most authoritative publication in China, actually declared a quote-unquote people's war on us. So they told us that we're the enemy. And as you point out, we have a president right now who says, oh, you know, they're just another competitor. Well, no, they're worse than a competitor. They're worse than an adversary. They are our enemy because they say that we are their enemy.

That's what's interesting to me. Do you think Biden is simply compromised financially through his son? Is that part of what is going on? It could very well be. There's something which, though, with Biden, and that is his views of China were formed decades ago. And I think that that was certainly a different China. And so he's not looking at China the way it actually is today. You're being very polite.

That's called stupid, is the technical term. I mean, if you say, my views of Germany are based on, you know, 1925. Well, unfortunately, if it's 1941, really you're responsible for what's been happening in the last decade or two. And to put this in another way, as someone famously said, Biden has been wrong on every foreign policy issue from the beginning of time. So, you know, it's, there's a lot of reasons. But the Hunter Biden connection really worries me a lot, of course, because Hunter Biden has not given up his ownership interest in Bohai Harvest RST, other people call it BHR partners, which he got on circumstances that look like a payoff. But there's something even more insidious than this,

and that is we know that Hunter Biden's a troubled individual. He admits it. If he did anything compromising on Chinese soil, the Ministry of State Security will know about it. They'll have video. They'll have audio recordings of all of this. And those can be used to blackmail the father. Now, we will probably get to the trail, the money trail on Hunter Biden because money always leaves evidence behind. But we may not know about blackmail of the president because of conduct of a son. I, you know, I simply don't know again, like the issue is first, how how troubling it is to live in a country like this where we have a free press that isn't doing its job, there can't really be anything more significant than what we're talking about.

So it's just mind-boggling to me that so few are sounding the alarm on this. I don't get it, frankly. It's too important. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't get it either. But, you know, the way I look at it is, Eric, I'm just going to do all that I can. and as I said, I'm really appreciative of you for giving me this opportunity to speak. And we just got to keep at it because eventually I think people will understand the maliciousness of this because China is engaging in increasingly dangerous behavior because we're letting it. And eventually they will do something that will capture the imagination and the attention

of the American public. Why wouldn't they try to hack our election with machines? I guess I don't get that either. Why would people think that they wouldn't do that? They have unlimited funds at their disposal to do anything they like. Why wouldn't they have teams of tech geniuses dedicated to undermining our democracy in that way? Yeah, I don't know about China's attempts to manipulate our voting machines, but I can tell you something that we do know about,

and that is the April 15th, 2020 election in South Korea for the, the National Assembly, which is the unicameral legislature. All 300 seats were up for grabs. And China, through Tencent, which is the big internet company, plus the Communist Party, developed algorithms that South Korea's president, Moon Jae-in, used to manipulate that election. And there is statistical evidence, and there is other evidence of Beijing's involvement in the South Korean election, which, by the way, ended up with a very surprising result. with Moon's party, which was deeply unpopular, picking up 59 seats. So we know that.

And so the question then becomes, well, if they manipulated the South Korean election, you know, why aren't they going after other elections? And I'm sure that they are going to try and do that if they haven't done it already. I just don't know why they wouldn't have done it. In other words, it doesn't seem to be any kind of a leap to assume that they, in fact, it would be foolish not to assume. or I would say it would be preposterous not to think that they would have to do this if they could. They don't really have any barriers to their behavior.

Anything that they can do, they will do and they have done, including what we politely call organ harvesting. Are you aware of that to any extent? Yes. I mean, they've been organ harvesting, and there's more and more evidence, has become at this point irrefutable, especially with a commission tribunal of last year, organized by Sir Jeffrey Nice, a barrister. But, you know, it's organ harvesting. It is also institutionalized rape.

Well, let's just put it bluntly. We're talking about murder for money. A half a million dollars for every murder of a young person, usually we go. you're Muslims. So this is, this is murder. This is monstrous. When we come back, I want to talk to you about the Olympics. I believe that holding the Olympics in Beijing would be like holding the Olympics in Berlin in 1943, not 1936. We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to Gordon Chang, not difficult to spell. His Twitter handle is Gordon G. Chang, the G. Stans for Guthrie. Gordon, you say on your mother's side, you were, did you say Scottish?

Scottish, yes. My mother's family came from Dundee. That's, I believe that's Scotland. Dundee. Okay. So how did your parents meet? I have to ask you. My dad, as I mentioned, was he got a scholarship to study in the U.S.

He met my mother at Riverside Church in New York. And they got married soon afterwards. This is 40 years before Fidel Castro took the pulpit at Riverside. Are you aware of that? Yes, I am. Yeah, this was before them. Yeah. Well, Riverside was never a bastion of theological orthodoxy, but most people didn't know that.

I just have to say it's fascinating to talk to you about China. I want to talk to you about the idea that we're supposed to be holding the Olympics there. I cannot imagine. We might as well hold the Olympics in North Korea. or Saudi Arabia. I don't really understand how it's possible that we could be so foolish as to allow them to gain that kind of propaganda, that kind of the visuals, the optics, that they're a wonderful country. Do you think that's going to happen this summer? Yeah, I don't know what will happen, but I know what should happen. We should persuade the

International Olympic Committee to move the games from Beijing. Beijing is committing genocide. among other crimes. I mean, I can't see why we should hold it there. But there's something else, Eric, and that is that in 1963, the IOC banned the participation by South African teams in Olympic competition. And the reason is because South Africa prohibited a very large group of South Africans from participating in sport. We've got the same issue, but it's actually worse in China with Tibetans, Uyghurs,

Kazakhs and others who are not allowed to participate in sport as a practical matter. So the IOC shouldn't be allowing Chinese teams to participate in the Olympics. And so I believe that we must boycott the games if they're held in Beijing. And we must boycott them if Chinese teams are allowed to participate. Well, let me ask, you know, when you talk about, you know, the IOC, I think we've come to a place in history where all of these organizations, whether it's the WHO or the IOC, they are globalist organizations who really have no values, there's no morality, the fundamental assumptions that we could have made when the UN was formed, when the Olympics were rebooted in 1896, there was something happening that it's gone away.

So to expect the IOC to do anything different, I mean, France is happy to give money to Iran. Germany is happy to deal with Iran. In other words, we're no longer dealing with people who seem to have the kind of values where they care about this. I mean, that's my issue with the IOC, I guess. Yes, it's craven. It is absolutely craven. And it is not a force for good. And as I talked about, I believe that the IOC must move the games.

and must ban participation by Chinese teams. They probably won't, and that's going to put us in a difficult position. But, I mean, this is an issue of morality. It goes to that issue of evil that we talked about earlier. Well, yeah, we're talking about real evil. And I think that it becomes difficult because, as you know, we're living in a culture where we don't really talk about evil very much. We look the other way.

There's a kind of a cynicism has been baked into things. And people act like, well, everybody's got problems, you know. But they don't have the ability anymore to say, yes, we've all got problems, but butchering people for their organs to sell to wealthy Saudis for a half a million per person, that's a new level. That's genocide. We're going to be back for another few minutes with Gordon Chang, folks. It's the Eric Mattaxas show.