The Eric Metaxas Show - Heather Mac Donald (Encore)

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Eric's Socrates in the Studio conversation with Heather Mac Donald. https://socratesinthecityplus.com/

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. Back again, eh? Glutton for punishment, eh? When will you ever learn? Now, here's the host that you hate to love, the man who was the reason your friend sponsored your last intervention, Eric Matt, Texas. Folks, you're listening to a special edition of the show. These are the audio versions of amazing conversations I had. Socrates in the studio.

These have not aired yet. The videos are not out yet. We want to encourage you to go to Socrates in the cityplus.com. Socrates in the city plus.com. Sign up. This goes live January 4th. You can see the videos. It's amazing.

Welcome to Socrates in the studio. Today, my guest is the brilliant public intellectual, Heather McDonald. Heather McDonald has written innumerable books. She is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. She is a contributing editor to City Journal. Her recent books include The Diversity Delusion and, most recently, when race trumps merit, which we will be discussing. right now at Socrates in the studio.

Hey there, folks. Welcome to Socrates in the studio. I am thrilled to have as my guest, someone who identifies as Heather McDonald, Heather. Welcome. Yes, you're assiduously gender neutral on that. I want to be very, very clear. That's how you identify, and I respect that.

And I'm going to, the pronoun I'm going to use as you. Uh-huh. No. You. You, singular. You people. or use for the plural? I don't usually identify particularly female, but in this case I will.

Okay, thank you. But I certainly don't have fun of his mail. Well, look, Heather, you have written many books. The new book, which I've read recently, is called When Race Trump's Merit, how the pursuit of equity sacrifices, excellence destroys beauty, and threatens lives. Unfortunately, quite literally, when you read the book, that becomes clear. I want to talk to you about the ideas in this book. and the ideas in the diversity delusion.

The problem is, where do we start? Well, we can start with some recent news that the FAA is considering diversity-making race and gender a qualification for doing air traffic control, which is showing that the diversity cult is now a death cult. Well, we already knew that. This is just a new level of death. Yeah, right. It's the death in the air. Like mass death from the skies. Exactly, exactly. Right. Not just the death of standards, but yeah, the death on the roads. We're going to get that as well.

And we're also going to get death in the emergency rooms. Okay. Just to begin this, you know, as broadly as possible, state up front the thesis of the book so that I don't have to. The thesis is that there is a dominant narrative in our society today. that is threatening Western civilization. And that narrative says that any racial disparities in any institution is by definition a product of racism. No other explanations are allowed into the public discourse. So let me give you some examples. If a medical school doesn't have 13% black students or black faculty, 13% being the population of blacks in the nation at large,

that is by definition a racist medical school. The reason there's an underrepresentation of blacks is racism. If a big tech company doesn't have 13% black nanotechnologists or computer scientists, that is a racist tech company. And it works in the other direction for overrepresentation. If blacks are more than 13% of the prison population, they're actually a third nationally, that's because we have a racist criminal justice system.

And the solution to these racial disparities is to tear down any standard that is resulting in the underrepresentation of blacks in meritocratic institutions. So let's say a hiring exam or a skills test or in the case of the criminal law, tearing down the criminal law itself, if that results in putting more than 13% blacks in prison.

What you're not allowed to say is, well, actually, there's an academic skills gap which we should think about and worry about that results in the under-representation. And there's a criminal offending gap, which is really difficult to talk about, which results in over-representation. And tearing down these standards is hurtling us very fast towards at best mediocrity and at worst

extinction. Civilization of excellence and civilizational extinction. Well, I think that says it all. We're done here. First of all, I want to say that the level of preposterousness of much of what you write about in the book, when race Trump's merit, is such that it is often comedic. In other words, it's entertaining on some level

because it is so wildly preposterous. And it begins to eat, it's the snake eating its tail. In other words, it gets to a point where what you just said about air traffic controllers, you know, because the standard thing would be to say, like, look, I don't need to agree with the theology of my pilot or with the politics of my pilot,

pilot. I want him to be a good pilot because I don't want to die. That's his job. The idea that, I mean, it's one thing for this craziness, you know, to creep into, you know, humanities at places like Yale where both of us have the fortune and misfortune of having spent time. That's sort of at least understandable. But when you're talking about medical schools, when you're talking about air traffic controllers. It's hard to process that people are, I guess the way I always phrase it is that I'm on team reality, right? Like I care about reality.

But these folks, it seems to me, and this is not to get too wiggie, but they don't seem to believe in reality. Everything's a social construct or everything is in their head. They don't seem to even believe in the idea of metrics or numbers or whatever. They're just in the ether, 100% in the ether. That's the only way I can process that they would have these opinions. Well, I think they would say we have a very strong understanding of reality, which is the reality of America is endemically white supremacist. Yeah. And that's why we'll never elect a black president, much less for two terms.

Exactly. It never, not possible. It's not going to happen. And no Republicans have had love affairs with black politicians like, you know, Alan Keyes or Alan West or Colin Powell or Condoleez racist. Impossible. It will not happen. Right. They're way too racist ever to embrace somebody like Clarence Thomas. Exactly. Yeah. That'll never happen. So we have to joke because it's just, it's madness. Yeah. And I have to say, I mean, you and I can say, I told you so because we've been warning about the insanity on campuses for 30 years, 40 years. And everybody's laughed at it. off. You know, you'd write these articles, say, look at, you know, back in the early 1990s, you'd have freshman orientation segregated by race or dorm graduation ceremony segregated by race

on the theory that integration was somehow psychologically injurious to black students. And people said, oh, you know, let these people graduate into the real world. They'll toughen up and they'll see that there's competitive standards and merit and accomplishment matters. And in fact, it was the students, the products of this hate-filled university that changed reality in their image. Right. The university finally bled over into the quote-unquote real world and made it not real. Exactly. As Andrew Sullivan said, we're all on campus now. And after George Floyd, the mass psychosis that followed the race riots, this idea that racism defines American reality and explains everything that we see about, our institutional structures became absolutely ubiquitous.

And you had our most elite institutions preposterously blaming themselves and blaming everybody else for phantom racism. White colors on my back. And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone? Many church leaders don't seem to realize or understand that cultural Marxism has infiltrated the American church. I believe Marxism is satanic, it's demonic. It's everything that John 1010 tells us about, where it's the enemy has come to steal and destroy, and Jesus has come to give life and life more abundantly.

This is the hour of the American church. For more than 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless providers standing behind their values and their exceptional service. They're an example of putting the cause ahead of profits, and it's why I am proud to partner with them, Starting today, Patreon Mobile is extending their Black Friday deal to the Every Friday Matters deal. And you can get a free smartphone when you switch today. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage giving you access to all three major networks,

which means you get the same coverage you've been accustomed to without funding the left. When you switch to Patriot Mobile, you're supporting free speech, religious freedom, the sanctity of life, our veterans and first responders, and more. Their 100% U.S.-based customer service team makes switching easy. Keep your number, keep your existing phone, or for a limited time get a free smart. from Patriot Mobile. Go to Patriot.com slash Metaxus or call 972 Patriot and use promo code Friday 76. Again, get a free smartphone with promo code Friday 76. This is a limited time offer. Join me, make the switch today. Patriotmobile.com slash metaxis or call 972 Patriot. Legacy precious

metals has a revolutionary new online platform that allows you to invest in real gold and silver online. In a few of these steps, you can open an account online, select your medals of choice, and choose them stored in a vault or ship to your door. You have access to a dashboard where you can track your portfolio growth in real time anytime. You'll see transparent pricing on each coin and bar. This puts you in complete control of your money. The platform is free to sign up for. Visit legacy pm.investments.com and open your account and see this new investing platform for yourself. Gold hedges against inflation and against a volatile stock market. A true diversified portfolio isn't just more stocks and bonds, but different asset classes.

This new platform allows you to make investments in gold and silver, no matter how small or large, with a few clicks. Visit legacy pminvestments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool they've added. LegacyPMinvestments.com. Legacy pm investments.com. Check it out. What we're talking about is an anti-rational worldview. That it sees rationality itself as West. patriarchal, something to be demonized. I mean, that to me seems at the heart of a lot of this.

And you're absolutely right, that that is their language. And they will say that mathematics is racist, that science is racist, that objectivity is a function of white privilege. And yet, on the other hand, I'm always reluctant to use the usual conservative arguments, say, well, it's anti-common-sense or anti-reason. Because I'm not sure they would cop to saying, well, I'm against common sense. Like, I think this is commonsensical, but I'm against it. Or I'm not using my reason here. I think we have to, we can't just, right, charge them with wrong procedures.

I think we have to get to the empirical claims that are being made. And so the trans thing. is like in a class by itself. That is truly bizarre. But on the other things, they would still argue that they have evidence on their side. And so that's why it's very important to provide alternative explanations for why we have these disparities. Well, your book, and this is why you're you and I'm me, but you have the talent to write a book loaded with evidence to support this in all these fears. And one is more entertaining than the other. whether you start with medicine and science, then you get into the culture and then finally into the law.

But some of it, as I say, is just comedic. I mean, when I read your chapter about the French, the 19th century French bust, I'm glad you thought it was funny to me. Like, I was enraged. That was very hard to write. But it is both. Yeah, I know. It is beyond enraging.

I mean, I went to the Metropolitan website. you know, to Metro... I live near the Metropolitan Museum here in the city in New York. And I just thought, let me see what they say. The first of all, let me see what the bus looks like and let me see what they say about it. And you just want to do backflips with rage of...

You can't believe... I know. So nobody knows what we're talking about. So do everyone a favor and describe what we're talking about. We're now talking about the world of art. Yes. We're talking about the Met here in New York. but talk about the two acquisitions, the terracotta and the marble original.

Just talk about this, because to me it sums up in some ways everything you say in the book. Yeah, let me back up. This is the Metropolitan Museum of Art, which is one of the great encyclopedic museums in the world that has been given the privilege, its director, Max Holane, has been given the privilege of curating a collection that was created over a century by these wealthy, generous donors who gave him works from across the world, and they are beautiful. And all we ask of Max Holine and his curators is one thing. Tell the public why they should be grateful to be able to see these works

and why they are brilliant and why they expand our knowledge of human experience and how to see the world. That's all we ask. It's a really good job. So there was a 19th century French sculptor named Jean-Baptiste Carpoe, and he's probably the second greatest French sculptor after Rodin. And if anybody has ever seen the works of Bernini in Rome at the Borghese Gallery,

Bernini has this amazing capacity to show flesh on flesh, the pressure of a Saturn's hand on a nymph's arm. As he's taking away, in marble. In marble. Carpo achieves very, very close to that. He's a brilliant sculptor. He was absolutely central to the renovation of Paris in the late 19th century, the creation of the Grand Boulevard under Hausman and public monuments.

He did a wonderful freeze for the Paris Opera. He created a bust in the 1860s, or 1873 actually, called Why Born Enslaved? Clearly, he created this beautiful sculpture as an abolitionist statement. Exactly. In art. Exactly. Clearly.

Exactly. Okay. His goal was to move the viewer if the viewer needed prodding to understand the inhumanity of slavery. So it's an African woman with a rope around her chest, one of her breasts is bare, which is typical for all sculpture, sculpture at the period. It is not voyeuristic or sensational. And she's looking over her shoulder with the most poignant piercing expression of dismay,

just defiance, lack of understanding what is going on. And as you say, it's patently a work with an abolitionist message. But even if you didn't look at it, we just know that I mean we know historically that is absolutely why he created this. Exactly. Like we know that as a fact. Exactly. Okay. So the

Metropolitan Opera first bought a terracotta version of this in the 90s and it had in the 2014 it had a whole show around Carpo. It was a fantastic retrospective. I was fortunate enough to go not knowing that I would be writing about him in another seven years

or so and it shows It shows it's this wonderful benchmark of the Met in 2014 pre-George Floyd mass psychosis. Right. And the Met in 2022. So in 2014, it could say Capo is a fantastic sculptor. This is the terracotta version of Whyborn Enslaved.

Fantastic work, poignant, moves the viewer. So then the Met gets a new curator of its sculpture, European sculpture department. And George Floyd happens. And they decide, okay, we're going to buy the marble bus. and we're going to do an entirely different show that will correct the blindness and the racism of our 2014 show. And so they build an entire show around the marble bust, which is a much more elegant and finished version of this. And the show is called The Fictions of Emancipation. This already is a clue.

So Emancipation is a fiction. It never happened. And the thesis of the Mets show of 2020, of 2022, the Fictions of Emancipation, is that because Carpo was a white sculptor, in him creating an ostensibly abolitionist work, actually the purpose of that work was to argue that blacks are inherently slaves and will always be so. and that it was actually not an abolitionist's work what was in favor of the enslavement of blacks. And every other abolitionist work like Josiah Wedgwood, who was a British, had a porcelain factory, though we all know the Wedgwood lines of tableware.

He did a famous medallion called, Am I Not a Man and a Brother, of a black man with chains begging for recognition of his humanity. Wedgwood campaigned against slavery. The Metz thesis and fictions of emancipations Wedgwood was a racist.

Okay, I know, I mean, I knew about the Wedgwood art because I wrote a biography of William Wilberforce, the white guy who led the battle for the abolition of the slave trade, and he partnered with people like Wedgwood and others to use the arts and culture to help people. people understand the wickedness of the slave trade. So there's no doubt that Josiah Wedgwood created that image, which was widely disseminated,

for the very purpose of ending the slave trade and ultimately slavery, and was in fact very successful in that. There's no doubt about that. That's historical. That's the record. but the Met perversely decides

somehow against all facts I mean there's there no facts it's just they impose this crazy subjective view on the bus to which you were referring the sculpture and then on Wedgwood which is even a more dramatically clear example of somebody using his gifts

to free blacks from slavery. Yes. And that is nonetheless called racist. There's no way out of that conundrum, the paradox that they're basically saying that no matter what a white person does, even when advocating for black people as fully human as people who should not be enslaved,

even in that act, you're being racist. And you just think you have to hold your head. Yes. because they're saying this today at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and across institutions throughout the West. They're doing this, but they don't have, and we know this, they have absolutely nothing to back up that position. I'm convinced that the American Church, has arrived at a significant moment of truth. The parallels with where the American church is now

to where the German church stood in the early 1930s are unavoidable and grim. Churches need to understand really what Marxism is, which is to destroy the church, to destroy the word of God. So if you capture the seminaries, you capture the pastors, you capture the laity, you capture the soul of the world. This is the hour of the American.

Church. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such wonderful relief.

If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise, they're just getting older. You should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you. It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more. On one of them, go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. yield the difference. Hey, this is Eric Metaxis. For years, I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993.

Nutrametics offers a variety of health bundles. Whether you want to support your immune system, improve your sleep, promote joint comfort or detoxification support, NutriMedics has a health bundle right for you. The best part about Nutrimetics, every year they donate a minimum of 50% of their profits to Christian charities and missions. That's right, 50% of their profits. Neutrametics has a goal of surpassing 100 million ines. giving by 2030. Many of you take supplements already. Switch to Nutrametics. It's the highest quality and they donate 50% of their profits. Get 15% off by using the code Eric during checkout. Go to

Neutrametics.com and search health bundles. Support your health while helping others in need. Go to Neutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com. Use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Neutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Nutrimetics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. The catalog copy, which I wrote about, it's exclusively academic jargon theory. It is they mindlessly vomit forth the usual phrases from academic deconstruction, feminist theory, anti-colonial theory. And they think by endlessly repeat. you know, intersectional themes of the enslavement of the black body and whatnot,

that they have made an argument. You're absolutely right in this case. I'll concede it. They do not have facts. They do not have reason. But yes, your viewers should understand, Eric, the degree of hatred that went into the creation of this show. Self-hatred, but also hatred for what Max Holine and his... as curators believe is the unwashed masses,

that they hate Western art now, they hate our civilization, and they will engage in the most counterfactual narratives to continue this amazingly counterfactual discourse. And it involves in making their argument about the Carpo bust, they have to turn on every aspect of Western art. So, yes, one of her breasts is revealed. You mean turn against?

Turn against. Well, no, I mean, you said it correctly, but just to be clear, they are, yes, they, go ahead. They have to take every, some of the most longstanding and noble traditions within Western art and argue that those are racist in order to try and argue that this bust is racist. So, for example, yes, one of the citadel. breast is revealed. Well, so is the famous delacois portrait of the

French Revolution of Liberty. I believe both busts. Both breasts in that case. And the nude, there have been millions of nudes created. Like 99.999% of those nudes have been white.

There have been very few black nudes. But somehow, because this one, model is black and one breast is exposed, this means that the portrayal of the nude is racist. Well, as far as they're concerned, everything is the hot and tot Venus. There's just nothing else to discuss. It's just, it must be because she's black and that's the end of it. And we don't need to talk anymore. And it's obviously silly. But what's, what's creepy, Heather, is the the seriousness with which they take themselves. In other words, these are like, you know, it's like being in Mao's cultural revolution.

Yes, yes. You cannot have any real conversations. You are guilty, and you must say that you're guilty. Right. What do you think accounts, this is broader than the subject of your book, but because you back it up so magnificently in so many fields, what do you think accounts for the hatred in, among, the elites in the West of the West, of our civilization. And it does seem to be only the elites, only the people running places like the Met or Yale or whatever. They somehow feel that this

is their version of nobles oblige, that they have to do this mea culpa, self-flagellation on behalf of everyone because they're in the lead. But what might account for their, let's call it, self-hatred or the hatred of the greatness of the West? I may distinguish between the university and then the non-academic world. And within the university, the impulse of self-critique in the part of Western universities is very longstanding. I mean, you can even say, because I do ask myself, like, more broadly, only the Western civilization is committing suicide right now.

Okay, hold on. See, now that right there, you do write about this a little bit in the book. that is very telling because you are i don't mean to cut you off i just want to make sure we don't like lose this that is the beauty to some extent of the west in other words there are values within the western tradition exactly which are not afraid of self-criticism yep which seem to believe in this idea of objective truth and justice and goodness and beauty and therefore are free to criticize themselves. So that's beautiful, but what's happened here is it's gone too far. Right. Well, see, I ask myself this all the time, why the West? And, you know, to just bring it back briefly to the art

issue and then make sure I don't forget my train of thought and bring me back. But in Western art museums now, particularly in the United States, but it's also in Europe at the Rice Museum in Amsterdam, they will write wall labels that are deconstructing the subtext of these works so that if you see a beautiful still life from the Dutch golden age of Baroque art, the still life will not tell you, you know, make sure you understand what has been created here with this translucent grape skin and the beautiful cut pewter and the ability to portray light on glass. but instead see this as simply a product of colonialism and slavery. And, you know, you don't see any slavery here, but it's really all about slavery.

The museums will only do that about Western art. They will, meanwhile, you'll go into the African art wing, and it'll celebrate aesthetically the way it used to be, you know, talk about formal elements or the creation of a Benin-Bron celebrating a warrior king. And it will never say that what you're not seeing here is the slaughter with which this king got power and the tribal genocide that brought him there. They will never say that about Chinese art, you know, that also you had a deeply misogynist culture here, footbinding of women. Instead, it will be, this is beautiful, you know, appreciate this landscape.

the West is only criticizing itself and no other civilization is criticizing itself. Mike Lindell and MyPillow employees want to thank my listeners for all your continued support. To thank you, they're having an overstock clearance sale right now for the best prices ever when you use promo code Eric and you get free shipping for the entire order. Get 50% off the MyPillow 2.0 and the brand new flannel sheets that just arrived and won't last long. get six-pack towel sets for only 29-98 and take advantage of the free shipping on larger items like mattresses and mattress toppers 100% made in the USA on sale for as low as 9999. Everything is on sale from the brand new kitchen towels that have the same technology as the bath towels

that actually absorb dog beds, blankets, couch pillows, and so much more to get the best specials ever go to MyPillow.com. Use promo code Eric. Again, mypillow.com. Use promo code Eric. Remember, you get free shipping on your entire order. You can call 800-978-3057. 800-9-7-3057. Use promo code Eric. This is Dennis Prager. I am excited to announce the all-new Pragertopia Plus.

You can listen to my show whenever it's convenient for you, all commercial free and all on-demand. Now with Prager Plus, search topics, guests, and segments all the way back to 2010. And now a truly exciting new benefit. My monthly online video get-together for Pragertopia Plus members only. This is where for an hour each month, Pragertopia plus members get an exclusive chance to ask me anything. That's right, anything. It's on video.

I'll be talking to you and answering your questions. We may even have a special guest every now and then. I've never done this. Submit your questions for me at Pragertopia.com. This is only available to Pragertopia Plus members. This is our chance to connect like never before. Go to Pragetopia.com or click the banner at Dennis Prager.com. These are the audio versions of amazing conversations I had.

Socrates in the studio. These have not aired yet. The videos are not out yet. We want to encourage you to go to Socrates in the cityplus.com. Socrates in the city plus.com. Sign up. This goes live, January. 4th, you can see the videos, it's amazing. When we talk about the concept of this thing that both of us

would see as very healthy, the ability to be introspective. Socrates, obviously, famously said the unexamined life is not worth living. Right. He merely asserts that, but we all know that, yes, that's, we agree with that, that we ought to be introspective, we ought to be self-critical. I would argue that that's a biblical, well, I wouldn't argue. I know. I know. that it's a biblical worldview, this idea that we are fallen, and therefore we need to check up on ourselves and not to drift into some

utopianist madness without being aware of where that can take us. And so these are Western ideas, whether you get them from the Athenians, or you get them from the Hebrew Bible. But these are what

gave us the greatest civilization in the world. and it's interesting to me that the seeds of destruction are there. People argue the same thing about Luther. You know, Luther did all this stuff, but then it leads to madness and whatever. And I think what you're ultimately talking about is the downside of freedom, right?

That freedom can sometimes lead to people, you know, using their freedom for ill ends. But that seems to be really clear right now that this self-critical aspect has gone crazy. Well, and I would, so I think, as I said, there's a long tradition of that type of critique in academia. I would, then I add to this race. Because that, to me, when I look around the world today,

leaving the trans madness aside, it is racial issues that are having the biggest impact on our culture. And Americans came very late to an understanding of how deeply they were violating their fundamental ideas. Obviously, there were people who understood it from the beginning and were fighting and were articulating arguments against the very real white supremacy that characterized our culture and the gratuitous nastiness with which North and South treated. blacks and it's heartbreaking to read that history. And it took a very long time to become fully cognizant of that. And so that, a guilt, an understandable guilt, I mean, you can argue whether it's ultimately self-defeating or not, but an understandable guilt is driving a lot

of what's going on now. But to the point that to, again, contradict myself and support you, means, I think, a failure to see facts before one's eyes. Tragically, you know, we're like ships crossing in the night. It breaks my heart to see black entertainers and black thinkers and black civil rights activists from the 40s and 50s conforming to bourgeois ideals. You know, Ella Fitzgerald dressed to the Nines and Duke Ellington and Nat King Cole and the protesters with suits and hats and at a time when America in the South especially

was still, as I say, gratuitously asserting white supremacy over them. So they were conforming, and then civil rights revolution happened and America finally became ready to say, we will accept you, and then you had the rise of an oppositional culture in the black community that now, celebrates dysfunction, celebrates criminality.

And so that moment where both sides were willing to accept the other has passed. And so right now we have these racial disparities and our only allowable explanation is racism, whereas in fact, as I say, the reason for racial disparities today is not racism. it's an academic skills gap if I can just put these numbers out and they're very uncomfortable to talk about. And I would ordinarily believe that racial etiquette would keep this off stage, but it's too late. It's too late for that now. But can we talk about the roots of that?

Because to me that's the real issue. In other words, when you talk about these gaps, you say, why? What has happened? And it is, you've just said it. I mean, there was, in previous decades, a kind of paradigm about how we deal with this inequality, with the injustice, and it had to do with dignity. Yes. It had to do with showing our moral superiority through dignity.

And so when you think of Dr. King, telling the people on the buses, we will not fight back. In other words, we will not participate in this. We will not allow them to demonize us. we will act so nobly that they will be ashamed. And that is what happened. That is what happened. It worked. When you think of Rosa Parks, you may know the story I've written about it,

but I mean, Rosa Parks was chosen specifically because she was so morally upstanding, such a fine Christian woman, that they knew that when people would try to attack her, it would be very difficult. So they took that stand. A lot of obviously the civil rights movement came out of the churches. And it was when they embraced the thinking of Malcolm X and pulled away from Dr. King's fundamentally kind of Christian perspective on how we deal with this. It changed everything and it led ultimately to where we are today. but I still think there are many, you know, people in the black community who would agree with us on this and who are troubled by this.

But the media narrative only talks about what we're talking about. Right. And the message was, rather than meeting standards, tear down standards on our behalf. We, you know, we won't meet them, just lower them. Mike Lindell and My Pillow employees want to thank my listeners for all your continued support. To thank you, they're having an overstock clear. in sale right now for the best prices ever when you use promo code Eric and you get free shipping for the entire order. Get 50% off the MyPillow 2.0 and the brand new flannel sheets that just arrived and won't last long. Get six-pack towel sets for only 2998 and take advantage of the free

shipping on larger items like mattresses and mattress topers 100% made in the USA on sale for as 9999. Everything is on sale from the brand new kitchen towels that have the same technology as the bath towels that actually absorb dog beds, blankets, couch pillows, and so much more to get the best specials ever go to MyPillow.com. Use promo code Eric. Again, Mypillow.com. Use promo code Eric. Remember, you get free shipping on your entire order. You can call 800-978-3057. 8700-9783057. Use promo code Eric. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Robert Netsley right now, who is with Inspire investing. Robert, I can't help but get excited about what you've created an opportunity for people to find out if their money is funding wicked things, if they have money in a 401k or retirement

fund, whatever it is, that is invested in companies that are doing evil things, that is promoting pornography, promoting abortion, promoting any number of things or ideologies with your money, folks. So Robert Nestle has created something where you can get a free report that tells you where your money is and they will help you get your money into companies that are doing good things. So you have to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. You get a free report. But this is something I, you know, Robert, I guess it just gives me hope that it's possible to turn things around in America. Because when I think of how. how much money people have invested out there.

If they would understand what's going on and shift that money to good stuff, it's just huge. It's just absolutely monstrous. It's enormous. It's enormous. And we are seeing fruit from that labor. It's remarkable. It doesn't have to even be trillions of dollars to change things.

I've been on the phone, you know, in recent weeks, you know, with investor relations and CFOs and whatnot. We regularly engage with companies that, we invest in or are like to invest in or kind of just speaking biblical truth, the corporate power. And, you know, one of the things we hear is often that, number one, these people have never heard, they tell us they've never heard from a faith-based investor before. They've been doing their job for 20, 30 years, you know, executive major organizations, never heard from a faith-based investor. So number one, they need to hear our voice.

Number two, they're thankful to hear it. Even in some of these sort of, you know, woke businesses, you think that this don't care, there are people in those businesses of influence that actually do care about what we have to say and oftentimes have enough influence to change things. So for instance, Costco stopped giving money to gay pride parades. Chevron stopped giving money to Planned Parenthood. There's a laundry list of other organizations that have changed things. That is unbelievable. That is unbelievable. Robert Nelson, that is unbelievable. It is so wonderful. I want to tell people, folks, what you do and don't do, you can change the world if you take an interest in this.

When I hear that a company like Costco would stop giving money to something like that, or Chevron, these are huge, huge companies. And you shop there, your money may be invested there. When we get involved in these things, we can change the world. So I want to say the action point is go to invest. I'm sorry, inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. inspire advisers.com slash Eric. You'll get a free report that will help you figure this out.

And I know, Robert, that you guys will help people if they want to transition to invest in companies that believe in their values. But this is a gigantic thing that we have. I mean, it's to me scandalous when we have power and we don't use that power. It's like when I say, I'm not going to vote. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. When you don't do those things, people who don't share your values, who share opposite, who have opposite values, they're going to prevail.

So I just want to say to you, Robert, thank you for taking this on because it is game-changing. Like you said, it's a movement. The more people that do this, it's an amazing thing when we think of the money that is out there, that many people of faith with traditional values have invested in woke companies. Ladies and gentlemen, you've got to do something about it. You've just got to do something about it. This is like a mandate that we've got to live our faith out in every sphere and where your money is.

That's a big deal. So please go to InspireAdvisors.com slash Eric. This is a free report. InspireAdvisors.com slash. Eric, Robert Natsley, thank you. Pleasure. Thank you, Eric.