The Eric Metaxas Show - In Wake of Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Ghouls Celebrate, Leftist Lawmakers Boo, Christians Pray

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

In Wake of Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Ghouls Celebrate, Leftist Lawmakers Boo, Christians Pray. More at stream.org

Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. Did you ever see the movie The Blobs starring Steve McQueen? The blood-curdling threat of The Blob. Well, way back when, Eric had a small part in that film, but they had to cut his scene because the blob was supposed to eat him. But he kept spitting him out. Oh, the whole thing was just a disaster. Anyway, here's the guy who's not always that easy to digest.

Eric the Texas! Hey there, folks. Welcome to Wednesday, the 17th of September. Today in hour two, I'm talking to my friend Mike Wilkerson about the news of the week, the death of my friend, the murder of my friend Charlie Kirk. A lot that I want to talk to you about. And I'm glad to be able to do it with our friend John Zmirak today in hour one. John, welcome back. Eric, it was a pleasure to talk to you.

last time we did the show was while Charlie was still with us, and I feel like we've turned a corner and living a different world for worse, but also in some strange ways for better, because it's always better to know what's really happening. And the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, as you recalled it, and there's a great piece at the Center for Baptist Leadership comparing Charlie Kirk and Dietrich Bonhoeffer directly. It showed what's in the hearts of a lot of Americans in positions of influence and power.

If you go over on Blue Sky, which was initially started off as an alternative to Twitter, to X, but without all the hate. Well, of course, Blue Sky is full of hate now. It's full of teachers and nurses and secret service agents and army colonels and university professors, all saying that they're glad a peaceful, moderate, faithful Christian who never advocated violence against anyone. They're glad he's dead, and they think it was a good thing. It's hard for a lot of us to process that there are Americans among us in positions of power who believe that, that there's a network of left-wing terrorism in the country.

But I guess if you were paying attention during the Obama years, you would remember that his memoir was ghost-rided by a weather underground terrorist, Bill Ayers. And John McCain was too much of a gentleman to mention that during the campaign. He was too much of a gentleman to mention that the Obama had attended a Marxist church for 20 years, whose preacher Jeremiah Wright did a sermon. in which he said, God damn America, and that the Obamas were there and didn't walk out. All these things of the radical left that are directly tied to real terrorism, we've winked at them for the last 40 or 50 years. We've just kind of, oh, they got carried away.

They were idealistic kids. So they blew up some cops. So they blew up the Capitol building. So they tried to take over all our schools with violent demonstrations and forcibly silenced people. Come on, there were just idealists. We've been enabling left-wing communist terrorism since the Vietnam War demonstrations. We have allowed it, and in fact, the factions that were aligned with it took over the institutions. And now you and I are playing clean up.

And Pam Bondi, who I'm afraid has the IQ of a bucket of rainwater, is talking about restricting hate speech. Well, hate speech is not the problem. Left-wing revolutionary rhetoric that calls for violence, which is already illegal. That's not hate speech, okay? That's sedition. That calls for violence.

I'm so glad you brought that up, John. Yesterday, when she said that, or when I saw that she said that, I thought, what a pity that she doesn't understand this, because this is a very important issue. and Charlie Kirk himself, I retweeted a tweet of his on this issue. There's no such thing as hate speech, folks. We have free speech in America.

So you are free to say the vilest thing. Now, if you're inciting violence or you are, and I mean specifically inciting violence, or if you yell fire in a crowded movie theater, yes, the Supreme Court says, no, no, no, that's not protected. You can't do that. But this idea that we would have anybody talking about hate speech as if we're going to cure everything by making it illegal to say the stuff that I disagree with, that is not the way out, folks. That is horrible. In fact, that is what got Charlie Kirk murdered.

Pam Bondi is repeating the same idiotic talking points that got Charlie Kirk murdered. And I want to explain that. The whole idea of hate speech, anyone who uses the phrase hate speech, that's someone who hates. speech, period. Hate speech is the idea that abstract concepts, political positions,

moral theological claims, such as abortion is murder, such as homosexual activity is a sin, such as no salvation outside the church, you need to be baptized to go to heaven. All those

statements can be taken by thin-skinned hypersensitive censorious people and can be framed as hate speech. Currently, in Canada, you can go to prison for reading aloud certain portions of the book of Leviticus. There is a guy, a preacher in prison

in Canada for reading aloud the portions of the book of Leviticus that offend gay activists. He's in jail now. That's where this is headed. In Britain, Christians get arrested for reading aloud from the Bible from preaching at Free Speech Corner from preaching at Speaker's Corner. They don't enforce the law against Muslims, against Hindus, against any other religion.

But once you allow the principle that speech can be punished, speech that can be punished by the government. Speech can be punished by the government. That's key. Not by employers or churches. The government, with its bayonets and its bullets can come arrest you for saying something that offends someone else, that will be imposed unequally. It will be imposed against Christians and against conservatives and against nobody else. So Charlie Kirk is what was the victim, God rest his soul, of millions of people being propagandized with the idea, if you say transgenderism is a mental illness, you are erasing them. You are obliterating them.

You are attacking them. You are threatening them. You deserve to be prosecuting for hate speech. And if the government won't do that, these people will be vigilantes and will take you out. So Pam Bondi, congratulations. Not only have you pimped for the Church of Scientology and worked for Pfizer, now you have repeated the very lies that got Charlie Kirk murdered. Good job. Heck of a job. Mission accomplished. I have to say it's always more dismaying when people on your team miss stuff. And so this is a

civics lesson, folks, on this program. You need to understand this concept. It's the same thing when somebody says it's a hate crime. If I murder you, the only crime is the murder, not why. So the idea that I did it because I don't like the color of your skin, I don't like your hair color, I don't like the jacket you were wearing, whatever. The point is, I'm free to dislike anything I want. I'm not free to murder. And so we live in a time where we really need to understand these issues, right? That you don't need a hate crime.

The crime is the crime. Hate speech is a similar idea that, oh, it sounds so nice. When people say vile things, we're going to make that. illegal. It's like, well, no, we have to live in a country where speech is free, where you're free to believe what you like, you're free to say what you like to a point. And again, there are limits to everything, but it ain't what people are talking about here. We have to live in a culture where people are free to say things. The limits are really easy to understand. This is not some big complex, pointy-handed thing that you need to Harvard Law degree to understand.

the limit's very clear. If you are advocating violent crime, if you are advocating another crime, that advocacy is illegal. Okay? So that's very simple. If what you're advocating is not a crime, then what you're saying is not illegal. I'll give you an example. If you say, we should violently overthrow the government of the United States, that's a crime because overthrowing the government would be a crime. If you say we should murder people over six foot tall or under five foot tall or with green eyes,

that's a crime because you're inciting a crime, the way conspiring is a crime. Hang on, folks. We're going to more of this civics lesson with John Smirik, don't go away. A major retail chain just canceled a massive order leaving My Pillar with an overstock of the classic My Pillows, and this is your game, because for a limited time, my pillows, offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard MyPillow for just 1798. Want more, upgrade to queen size for only 2298 or king size for 2498? Snag body pillows for 2998 and versatile multi-use pillows for just 998.

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Now don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard, My Pillow, for only 1798 only while supplies last. Welcome back talking to John's Merak. John, it's important that we continue explaining this. that in America we have free speech. Ladies and gentlemen, it is sacred. And free speech, understand this, okay? Free speech doesn't mean you only have the right to say what is true or what people agree with. Free speech means we are free. And free can be messy. But that's what makes America a free country. We don't say, you know what? My neighbor said this thing. I find really vile. And she should be prosecuted for saying that.

No, you don't have to agree with your neighbor. We are free to speak. We're in a civil society. And so when people start talking about hate speech, that is a big problem. And a lot of times people on the right don't get it. And we need to get it. In the past, our ancestors and our various churches didn't get it. You and I believe that to be saved, you have to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

So someone who runs around saying Jesus was just a great human teacher, he wasn't really divine. That person is endangering the immortal souls of everyone he encounters. So if you and I didn't think free speech was sacred, we would take that person and put him in a cell so that he could not

endanger the eternal salvation of all the people around him, as if he were spraying poison in the air. Well, America was founded on rejecting the idea that the government exists to protect people from bad thoughts and false beliefs. Because

that is giving the government the power of God. That is giving the people in the government, God-like powers, and revoking the free will that he actually created us with in the Garden of Eden. So if God didn't believe in free will, he could have stopped Adam and Eve from sinning. Nobody would have died. Nobody would have gone to hell. You know, frankly, I wish he'd chosen that plan and that we were all happy puppets. I would like to be Kermit, but no, really Oscar the Grouch, okay? If we're becoming puppets, I think, Eric, you will be Kermit, but I will be. be Oscar the Congress. We'll have a grand old time. But that's not how God created the universe. So maybe we should follow the rules God laid down rather than making up our own imaginary rules where the nice

Karen's in the government get to send the police. If you said something that made some transgender activist feel threatened and erased and violated and marginalized, that's not how society's supposed to work. I just want to say, to clarify, it isn't easy being green, ladies, and gentlemen. I want you to know, I want you to understand that. So, John, you know, lately I've been thinking that Charlie Kirk really was, is a Bonhoffer figure. He was, brilliant, undeniably brilliant and articulate and effective and moral. He was a wonderful Christian. And I described him as a martyr. You agreed with that. And I think there, There is something beautiful about heroes like Charlie and even more beautiful when they're martyred.

When I think of Bonhoeffer, you think, my goodness, this beautiful, brilliant young man murdered by the Nazis. He belongs to the ages at that moment. And I feel that way about Charlie. And frankly, I think of Nathan Hale, the American hero who was hanged by the British. these are these are these are heroes um my favorite saint joan of arc the british the british really made a mistake by burning joan of arc if they had left her alive and she'd gotten caught up and the sorted back and forth of french politics and is there anything more sorted than french politics her her reputation would have been tarnished she would not have been an icon of national

resistance an icon of the french nation for hundreds of years that sustained men in trenches, in battles, that eventually was canonized by the church. I actually, I'm going to call him I'm going to be working on soon as I'm going to call on the Catholic Church to canonize Charlie Kirk. He wasn't a Catholic, but then neither were the Coptic Christians who were killed by ISIS in Egypt a few years ago, and the Catholic Church has recognized them. I think it's time for us to start recognizing people who died for Jesus Christ, even if they didn't happen to attend the same denomination that we do. Well, and, you know, Charlie Kirk, like me, was a pro-Catholic, non-Catholic.

And it's an interesting thing. He was ecumenical in the best sense. You could say the same about C.S. Lewis. I think Bonhofer is a saint in some denominations. I don't know. But look, at the end of the day, he was an extraordinary human being, and it's hard to process that suddenly he's with the Lord. But I think his murder is unleashing tremendous forces for good in our nation and probably around the world. And that this, you know, this golden age that has been spoken of and to some extent,

prophesied by people I respect that we're on the verge of this golden age. I think this is a major piece of that, that some forces are being unleashed. People who would have been timid will be bold. People are going to start going to church and saying, I need to get my life right. I don't want to live in fear. I want to be like Charlie Kirk. I think there are tremendous good things that will result from this horrible tragedy. The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. the church father, the Turtallian famously said. And the mass murder of Christians by the Roman government in the Colosseum and in cities across the Middle East, across the Mediterranean, it is the thing that made people take Christianity seriously, because in the late Roman Empire, people had nothing

to live for. And here were people who had something to die for. What are these people believe? These people who are facing the lions, these people being burned alive, and they're singing hymns, what, I want some of what they've got. And that is a large part of what converted the Roman Empire. The other part of what converted the Roman Empire.

And this fascinating, fascinating study. He was this Baptist professor, Rodney Stark did a book, The Rise of Christianity. And he documented the other major factor in the rise of Christianity is that Christianity taught people to treat women

with respect, not to sexually exploit them, not to use them, not to murder their children to infanticide and abortion. And so Christianity became attractive to women. And women embracing this creed that offered them equal respect as creatures of God and that protected women and children. Women became Christian and their husband said, oh, all right, fine. I mean, Sin Augustine. A Roman pagan man married a Christian woman. Often it was the only way you could find a virtuous woman was to go among these weird Christians because everybody else had succumbed to the culture of promiscuity. So a Roman who wanted a woman with some morality wasn't going to cheat on him and divorce him and present him with cuckled at babies would marry a Christian. And then the kids would be raised

Christian. That's how the empire was converted. So we have to make it, we have to, and that's a real problem for the church right now because The advocates of the woke culture, the advocates of crazy government policies are misguided women. That's why we talk about Karen's. The women in our culture have been propagandized and fooled into thinking that sensitivity and acceptance of any kind of behavior of being a trans or being a furry, of being attracted to small children, that embracing these things is. the compassionate and the kind thing to do. That's something we really have to work on as a church and as a culture to say that, no, if someone is smoking five packs of cigarettes a day, you're not showing him love by buying him more cartons of cigarettes. No, giving someone more heroin

is not compassionate. No, telling someone there are 47 genders and he can pick which one he wants and you'll give him dangerous hormones and surgery to match that. That is not compassion. It's, well, and again, you've said this many times that these are perversions of the virtues, this idea that, you know, I've got to love my neighbor, and that means approving of any insane thing as though that were love. It's not love. It's really selfishness. But we do live in a culture where that has become the case. And also where transgression has been celebrated for its own sake. That's kind of what we're dealing with right now. It's that we've seen, again, through the decades, through the centuries, really,

from Rousseau, Marquis de Sade. I mean, these things filter through the culture until now you have all kinds of people really ignorantly celebrating transgression itself, not even knowing what it is they're rebelling against. The Vatican is embracing an LGBTQ pilgrimage is marching into the Vatican with the cross painted in rainbow colors. The Vatican itself, is embracing the fact that so many of its bishops and priests are Disney princesses

who were just looking for a cushy job and drifted into the so-called celibate priesthood. Okay, John, I don't, when we come back, I want to ask you about this because I don't get that. I really, really, really don't get that. So when we come back, folks, we're going to talk more about this. Do not forget Socrates in the city. We've got new stuff up there every week. please go to Socrates and the city.com. We have an important matching grant.

We need your help. Please go to Socrates in the city.com. Hey, the folks. Welcome back talking to John Smirak. We're having a lot of laughs. Just between segments, I said something in my computer was running out of juice, and I need to plug it in. And John said, stop blaming the juice for everything.

I thought that was funny. Yesterday, yesterday, I, was watching, I think there's a reboot of spinal tap. After 40 years, they're doing a sequel. And something about eating flan. And one of them said, I have a fear of flan. And I thought, that's brilliant. A fear of flan. That was good. That's maybe an Erica Jong reference. I don't know. No, honestly, that was very funny. All right, John, we're talking about some serious stuff, I got to say. When I read that Father James Martin, who's a pro-super-gay activist somehow in the Catholic Church, I, as a non-Catholic, don't understand how it can be that the Pope or

anybody can say it's okay to have like this super-gay pilgrimage to the Vatican for the... I just, as a non-Catholic, can you explain to me how they... this is possible. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me. I just don't get it. Okay. So quickly, the abstract justification for it is, we have to welcome everyone and Jesus took people where they were and he accepted them, which is just absolutely gibberish and nonsense. But that's not even the real reason. The real reason is much grimmer. Clerical celibacy, the idea that priests need to be unmarried. there was always a segment of men who were called to be celibate priests in imitation of Jesus who was celibate.

But there were never enough of them to actually serve a church where you need sacraments done by priests all through your life, six or seven of them. And you need baptism, you need Holy Communion, you need Mass every day, you need confession, you need all these. sacraments, you need priests to do it. God never really called enough men to be celibate to provide that. The Western Church imposed the rule that priests had to be celibate and then kind of winked at the fact that most of them weren't, that a lot of them secretly took wives. And periodically, the church would crack down and try to make priests be celibate. And then they would realize that wasn't working. They would sort of wink it. It went back and forth through the centuries. Up around the 20th century, okay, the 1920s century,

being the priest was sufficiently attractive that you might get a fair number of like ordinary straight men willing to make the sacrifice. Like, well, I can get married and work 14 hours a day in a coal mine, have 12 kids, half of them will die, and I'll probably die at each 50 having never learned to read. or I can go to the seminary, try my best to be celibate, follow the rules, and I'll go to college, and I'll live in a nice house, and I'll learn to read. I call these good, bad reasons for becoming a priest, and you had a fair number of normal young men who would do that. It would try hard to be celibate.

Come the 20th century, and there were alternatives to working in a coal mine. The eight-hour day is put in place. You can go to college without becoming a priest. The number of straight men willing to go try to be celibate priests went down. What replaced it? Young gay men. The church already told them they had to be celibate. Well, okay, church says I have to be celibate or I'm going to go to hell.

I might as well get a salary for it and a nice house and a free education. So the priesthood became more and more and more gay through the 20th century to the point. where the John Jay report that was sponsored by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops offered a range of estimates of what percentage of priests are same-sex attracted. And the lowest estimate was 15%. The highest estimate was 53%. Considering that at the time, only 2% of men considered themselves gay, that meant the most optimistic scenario, being a priest means you're a set.

700% more likely to be gay. But the most pessimistic one, you're something like 25,000% more likely to be gay. So if you get an institution that's increasingly gay, straight men won't want to join it. Would you join a fraternity if you heard it was like half gay? Well, I mean, I understand all this. I still don't understand how you deal with it theologically, and I don't want to take up all your time talking about it. Well, I just want to say that if you're running an army and half of your officers sympathize with the enemy, you're not going to do a very good job of fighting that enemy. And increasingly, the bishops in the Catholic Church are gay. And they're looking out for their gay comrades. Now,

I want to offer the one I have, there's a positive side to, there's hope here, okay? Despite Pope Francis being a Marxist heretic and being in place for 10 years, Catholic seminaries have been getting more Orthodox and more conservative, despite him a place. all these Disney princesses as bishops. And here's why. Gay marriage might save the Catholic priesthood. Because now there is, first of all, it's socially more acceptable to be a gay man than to be a priest for many people, especially after the sex abuse crisis.

But also now with gay marriage being accepted, there is a fabulous ceremony you can invite your mother to that is not an ordination to the priesthood. So I think gay marriage is going to save the Catholic priesthood by drawing away all the guys who would otherwise have just slid through the seminary. Now they're going to have little houses and they're going to buy surrogate children for over, I don't know, Etsy. I don't know where you buy surrogate children. Is it eBay?

This is depressing, John. You've written a very important article. We need to change the channel. We've got 45 seconds and then we'll do the next two segments. Give us the headline and then we'll get to it in the next segment. Okay, demons know Christian prayer is powerful. That's why the left is trying to ban. Oh, we're at a time. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Lots more in my friendship with Charlie Kirk coming up an hour two. Right now talking to John's mirror. So, John, you just gave us the headline of an article you've posted. Say more.

Demons know Christian prayer is powerful. That's why the left is trying to ban it. And did you know, I don't know. Maybe people don't realize that prayer is getting banned, but I'm going to give you some examples. in Australia, in the state of New South Wales, the Attorney General just made it clear it's illegal for Christians to pray for someone or with someone who's gay, who's trying not to be gay or trying not to act on it. So if you know someone who's struggling with same-sex attraction and he asks you, would you pray for me,

if you were in this part of New South of Australia, you could go to prison for up to five years. And there is video on X of the New South Wales Attorney General Michael Daly being questioned by a member of parliament and saying, yes, if you're trying to pray the gay away, you can go to prison for five years. In Great Britain, people regularly get arrested for standing silently in front of, you know, 100 feet away from an abortion clinic, just standing there. The police will come up to you and ask you, are you praying, mate? And if you cop to it, if you say, yes, I'm praying, they will arrest you. This woman, Isabel von Spruce, she's the head of the March for Life in Britain, she's been arrested three times for standing near an abortion clinics,

silently praying with her eyes closed. In California... I've heard about this. I guess I just want to say all of the demonstrations that I've seen around Europe recently for Charlie Kirk against the wicked government that has taken over the UK. Give me hope that there are people waking up to the madness. Right, but let's stick to the point. It is illegal to pray for someone to be less gay in Australia.

It's illegal to pray that women keep their babies in Great Britain. And think about this. In America, we still have the First Amendment, which protects us for the moment. But look at the way the left gets outraged, like when there's a mass shooting and we say, oh, our thoughts and prayers are with the parents. The left goes crazy.

They act like a vampire who's been sprayed with garlic. Why is that? Because it's grammatically and theologically stupid when I say our thoughts and prayers are with, I don't know what that means. But the general concept, yes. The general concept is that we are praying and people get angry.

Why should you be? be praying. We should have gun laws. Forget about prayer. The mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry, right after his constituents were mowed down by a transgender terrorist, Catholic school kids at a mass, he got up on television and said, what good is thoughts and prayers? These people were praying. What good did it do them? It was like one of the Roman soldiers yelling at Jesus, where is your God now? It was just so shocking. Why does the left want to out? outlaw moments of silence in public schools. How is that an establishment of religion, having a moment of silence that the kids who are present, some of whom might be Christian,

might quietly pray to themselves. Why does that upset the left so much? And think about that. Who could it hurt? Who could it hurt for Christians to pray? And the question is, But you're proving the, I keep saying we're in a spiritual war and it's open warfare now. You're seeing the evilness of evil in a way you haven't before. It was hidden before. It was camouflaged. We're seeing the evilness of evil. They have nowhere to go.

They have to kind of come out. And it's like street fighting now. They can't hide in the houses anymore. They can't hide. It's they, they, the evilness of evil and the explicit rejection of God, the explicit hatred of God has come out. That's what we're talking about. Right. So what I'm saying is this.

something. Nobody's trying to ban Muslim prayer or Hindu prayer or theosophist prayer. Nobody's trying to ban that. Nobody's worried that praying to Vishnu is going to cause harm. The reason the left wants to ban Christian prayer is not because they

think it's useless and empty and has no effect. That's like trying to control water guns. Nobody's calling for pop gun control or whoopee cushion control. No. They know Christian prayer is powerful. How do they know that? Because the demons, to whom they have surrendered their lives, who control their thoughts and actions, every time Christians pray, the demons feel like battery acid has been thrown on them. They react the way demons do in exorcism movies when you say the name of Jesus. The left, which is literally possessed by wicked spirits,

can't stand Christian prayer because to them it's like a nuclear weapon. And this is a powerful argument for the truth of Christianity that it's the only form of prayer that the evil spirits are trying to outlaw. That's a fascinating thesis, young man. I'd like you to write that up and have it on my desk on Monday. It's just, no, look, it's so true, it's so obvious that there's this real thing. God is real and praying to him is real and that, you know, you can have radical Islamists and secular leftists, all on the same side, lunatics, all on the same side against actual Christian prayer because, yes, because it's real, it's effective.

Can you comment at all on what you see happening around the globe, John, though? When I see all these, I mean, in the UK, what happened, I don't know where that goes. I don't know if Nigel Farage or Tommy Robinson, you know, get into power, but it's encouraging. There are forces of tyranny. What we have to see is that the real enemy in the world right now is spread around, but the worst enemy we face is the enemy within. You know, a noisy neighbor who does beer cans in your yard, that kind of stinks. But

when someone's a squatter in your home, sleeping in your bed, pawing at your spouse, eating out of the refrigerator, that's a lot worse. The squatter is worse than the bad neighbor. Just that same way, left is to lead to control countries like Great Britain and France

are much more our enemies than the government of Russia, or even China, or even North Korea. The NATO is a coalition of enemies right now, whom we are pledged to protect and risk nuclear war to protect, while they persecute their own citizens, while they arrest people for saying Christian prayers. Something like 12 people are arrested every day in Great Britain for criticizing immigration on social media.

I guess this is your way of saying, no, you're not hopeful. We'll be right back with John Smirak. Welcome back. Folks, I want to remind you, go to the... website letter to the American church.com. It's the film that I made with Charlie Kirk, which many churches have refused to show, even though it's offered free to churches. If your church doesn't want to screen it for free, I wonder why you're going to that church. I have a question for you. The website is letter to the American church.com. Okay, John Smirik, so do you have a sense

that all of these horrors in Europe, which we've talked about many times on this show, that perhaps the people have finally had enough and that there's a way out of this for Europe? Yeah, these governments have to fall, and the U.S. has to help topple these governments. We have to stop pretending. Yeah, we have to stop pretending that Great Britain is an ally. Stop pretending that France is an ally.

These are fascist governments persecuting their population and trying to replace them with Muslim colonists, period. We should dissolve NATO and stop propping these countries up. Trump should start using the tariffs to try to bring down these regimes, to try regime change, not by war, but by economic pressure. We should not be putting economic sanctions on Russia. We should be putting them on Britain, on France, on the European Union, because these governments do not share our values.

These governments are anti-Christian, they're anti-freedom, they're anti-Western. They are no more real than the Nazi collaborationist governments that were set up during World War II. And we should be aiming at toppling them. Well, I would just agree with you that we shouldn't put sanctions on Russia, but we'll put that aside. You, I mean, what J.D. Van said in his speech in Munich, I don't know, months ago,

I thought it was very powerful and that he made the case that you're making and that I've been making, that we do not really see. eye to eye anymore with, you know, this, this gang of folks that are in NATO. We used to be mostly on the same page, but Charles de Gaul is no more the head of France. Churchill is no longer heading up the UK or Thatcher. We're in a new day. And I do think one of the things I love about President Trump is his willingness to use the power that we have, the power of you want to trade with us? Great. We've got a lot of money in a huge market. Here's what we're going to do. If you don't play ball on these issues, free speech, whatever. Oh, we're going to, we're going to create some

tariffs. I think that's beautiful. Do you think there's any sense that he might do such a thing? I wish he would. I think I think I think the MAGA movement is getting to some degree radicalized. I mean, Trump changed after they rummaged through Melania's underwear drawer and after they shot at him twice. And I think the murder of Charlie Kirk is changing millions of us to where we are no longer fooled. You can't just throw us a crumb. We don't care if Paul Ryan comes out and quotes a Bible verse before he goes off back to the board meetings of Fox News. We're not going to be fobbed off with bland pious nonsense. We know that there's a cold civil war and the left has declared it and they will not accept a truce. They will not accept negotiations. They want to kill us.

We're not ready to be killed. We're not going to go down without a fight. Well, as I say, I'm encouraged. The outpourings around the world, I have been frankly astonished. I had no idea that anything like this could happen. And I believe God's hand is moving in history that we are, we're really seeing great things. We're out of time. But folks, I keep mentioning a letter to the American Church.

Charlie Kirk partnered with us in making that film. It's important. If your church doesn't screen it, I want to ask you why you're going to that church. It's important. Letter to the Americanchurch.com is the website. If the churches don't wake up. If more churches don't wake up, nothing can happen. And if you're going to it, if you're propping up a church that refuses to, you know,

condemn the murder of Charlie Kirk, for example, you're complicit. All right. We'll be right back with hour two. Don't go away.