The Eric Metaxas Show - Irving Roth

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

Holocaust survivor Irving Roth, featured in the new film, "Never Forget," has a harrowing story to tell about his childhood shattered by the Nazi takeover of his country and his days in a concentration camp.

It's the show you've all been waiting for. Until now, until literally right now. Now, literally right now. Literally right now. Literally. Now your host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Have I got a show for you? I am not kidding.

You will not believe my guest today. You will not believe him. He's a 91-year-old man, Jewish man named Irving Roth, who wrote a book called Bondi's brother. his brother was killed in the Holocaust, and he, Irving Roth, went through the Holocaust, was at Auschwitz with Ellie Vizel. He seemed so young that the fact that I get to talk to him today about his experiences is unbelievable.

There's a film coming out called Never Again with our friend Dennis Prager, and one of the stars of that film is Irving Roth. but he is one of the sweetest characters I have ever talked to. And so we're going to air that in a couple of minutes. You do not want to miss this. This is a beautiful human being. And I have to say that when you talk to somebody like this who, you know, my dad's 93,

this guy's 91. He seems younger. And he lived through this stuff. And he talks about it. And some of you know, I think I shared it last week. my Bonhofer book, of course, I share, you know, I talk about this stuff. When you're talking about somebody who was there at the time. And to think that when he talks about being at Brooken, I'm sorry, Buchenwald,

he mentions being at Buchenwald. He was there at the same time Bonhofer was there. I know that. And I cannot get over the fact that I'm talking to someone who lived through this. He's going to tell us all kinds of stuff. And he talks about the box car experience and all that being jammed in there. You see it in the movies, but here's a guy that lived there. You never get to ask somebody the details.

And here we have somebody. So this is really extraordinary. I just want to tell you, folks, that today is a really special day. Later in the week, what a week. We've got Ted Cruz. We have Pat Boone, another incredibly lovable, wonderful human being that I now have the privilege of calling friend. Pat Boone is amazing. We've got an hour with him and very, very, very special. An interview with Pastor Daryl Scott. He's a black pastor from Cleveland who has been very

vocally for Trump. I've gotten to know him. He has a bookout called Nothing to Lose. He's hilarious and his story is off the chart. So we've got so much this week starting with today, which is insane. I mean, but when you hear Irving Roth's story, you'll see what I'm talking about. I want to remind you if you've not yet given to the Alliance Defending Freedom. Now, there are people out there who have given, right? So you can just sit, you can sit down, you can sit down. But the rest of you, I need you to stand and hold up your right hand and say, yes, I will give today. Now, the amount doesn't matter.

We don't care how much, okay? We're not asking you to give what you can't give. But the Alliance Defending Freedom is doing truly heroic work. And it is necessary work. So it is necessary that we who understand what is happening in this country help them out. They're not just some group. There's a lot of great groups out there. The Alliance Defending Freedom goes to court to defend people who are being attacked or persecuted, usually for the religious beliefs.

So if you run a store or a bakery shop or whatever it is or you're a student someplace and you talk about your faith and somebody says, you know what, that affects. offends me. That sickens me. You disgust me. And they bring you up on some kind of charges, whether it's at the university, which has just been done to a student at John Brown University after I spoke there, or they decide to persecute you through the state of Colorado as they did Jack Phillips, the baker, who wouldn't bake a same-sex wedding cake. Now, you know, this stuff is complicated, but many of these cases are straight up wrong. It's religious persecution. And if you don't like it, that's one thing not to like something. It's another thing to say, I'm going to persecute you because you don't agree with me. That's what's happening. And that's unconstitutional. We have

religious liberty in this country. So I want to tell you, folks, the Alliance of Funding Freedom is fighting these things in court for free. For free. They need our help. Everybody always asks me, Eric, what can I do? Give me something to do. You can give something to the Alliance defending freedom. I'm not blowing smoke. I mean that if you care about religious liberty, if you care about liberty, if you care about America, I would say you have an obligation to help those folks who are standing almost alone in doing this. If you have a lawsuit, if you've got a case and the Alliance Defending Freedom can't take it, they don't have the budget. They don't have. They don't have. have the lawyers or they don't exist,

you're in big trouble because there's no one to defend you in court. And it costs a lot of money to hire a lawyer. So I just want to ask you, please, almost as an insurance policy, it's the right thing to do, folks. Go to our website mettaxistocot.com and click on the banner for the lines defending freedom. I'll give you the phone number, but I've said it, Albin, we both said that we want to thank you. And so we've got all kinds of ways that we're going to thank you. anybody who gives anything.

That's why I want everyone to participate. When you give, your name goes in the barrel for the grand prize. The grand prize, you get all kinds of signed books from me. My new Bonhofer book, it's the 10th anniversary edition. You get Albans set, a box set, and you get the box. There it is. Hamster homes. It's important, folks, that you understand.

If you win the grand prize, you're going to need to buy a storage unit. You're going to get so much swag, or you can just sell it on eBay. We don't care. But the point is, everybody who gives anything to the lines defending freedom, you're going to get entered in the contest. If you give $100 or more, you get a free subscription to Metaxa Super that is commercial-free podcasting. A lot of people love that.

A lot of people pay for that. You get it for free. To buy it almost costs that much money. And here you're getting to give $100 tax deductible. to a great organization, and you get that for free. Anybody gives $250, gets a signed copy of my new book, Donald and the Fake News. That's the third in the great trilogy, the Donald of Caveman trilogy, which is vying with, as you know, J.R. Tolkien wrote a trilogy, and it really, many people think of them in the same breath now.

And I want to say you get a signed copy of Donald and the fake news. Free, free, free. Free, free. You get all kinds of stuff if you give. I'm sorry, if you give $250 and obviously you get two subscriptions to Metaxa Super, you can give one to a friend or a relative, we just want to thank you. Anybody gives $1,000 you get all kinds of this stuff, plus you get to visit us and you can bring your class, you can bring your relatives, you can send your friends who live

in New York, you do whatever you want to do to the studio. We'll be back in the studio soon. So we want to encourage you anybody who can give $10,000 tax deductible to the Alliance defending freedom. We want to thank you by going out to dinner with you, spending an evening with you, getting to know you. There are lots of folks who've done that in the past. There are lots of folks who can afford to do that. I can't think of a better thing to do for your country, for liberty, than giving you lines defending freedom. So I'll give a website again. It's metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner. If you prefer to make a phone call, speak to a human being. Here is the phone number. It is

855-5-4-7-53-8-55-5-4-7-53-5-4-7-53 again 8-5-5-5-5-4-7-5-4-7-53 33 33 Albin, what else do we have to say before we get to our mind-blowingly wonderful guest? What else do we have to say? Oh, in our two, did you talk about that? We're going to have Irving Roth, and then we're going to have Dennis Prager's going to come back No, Prager. We got Prager. Now we should mention Irving Roth, we're having him on.

He wrote a book called Bondi's brother, B-O-N-D-Y-S or I-S. I don't know, Bondi's brother. But he's in the film, never again. That's right. And his Prager is also in the film. That's right. Again, referring to the Holocaust. I want to say again that the new edition of my Bonhofer book, I wrote a 7,500 word new

introduction to it. It's been redesigned. And it's important for us living through what we're living through right now to be familiar with this history, which is one of the reasons it's such a privilege to get to talk to Irving Roth when we come back from the break. Folks, trust me, you don't want to miss him. He's a delight. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, the Eric Mataxis show. We'll put all this stuff on there so you can watch it as a TV program. We'll be right back with the great Irving Roth. Don't go away. here on the light of... Hey there, folks.

This is the Eric Metaxa show. On this program, I get to talk to interesting people usually. Today is one of those days. I am really thrilled to have as my guest, Irving Roth, who is in a film called Never Again. Irving, welcome the program. Thank you. Happy to be here. Listen, I don't know where to be here.

begin with you. You, sir, are not just the Holocaust survivor, which is a big enough deal, but you're old enough to remember vividly what it was to be there. You were 15 years old when you went on this evil journey into that place. And you are featured in this film never again. My friend Dennis Prager is also featured in the film. But we want to hear your story, Irving. Tell us your story. Where did you grow up and how did you find your way into one of the darkest places of the 20th century? I was born in a country called Czechoslovakia, which doesn't exist. It's now mid-up of three countries, actually. The area that I grew up in is actually called now Slovakia, and was part of Czechoslovakia, which is fundamentally a democratic state

when I was born in 1929. But unfortunately, by the time 1939 came along, it no longer existed. Because what happened is Germany first occupied Sudetland, which is the western part. And where I lived in 1939, became an independent country, an independent fascist country. And as a result of that, they followed the same ideas as Nazi Germany, which meant immediately at age 10 here. I'm living in this city, which is about 65. 500 people. One third of the population is Jewish. More than half is Catholic and sorted Russian Orthodox and gypsies and all that, living and working together in a perfectly

integrated society. I start school at age six, first grade. I'm perfectly happy in the school. I like going to school because we have a soccer team and I play on it. There's some beautiful girls in my class. Everything is working fine. That's 1935. By 1939, all these changes. And suddenly I'm being persecuted. And I don't know that because one morning in 1939, around late spring, early summer, I do what I normally do during the summertime.

I don't go to school. I meet my friends in the park. But that morning, I cannot longer go into the park because I'm a Jew. Because there's a huge sign. It says Jews and dogs are forbidden to enter. And suddenly... Is it what? Jews and what?

Jews and dogs. are forbidden to enter. Now this is an amazing thing. Just to be clear on the history, so you're 91 years old now, correct? Yes. Okay. So you're 10 years old and you see the sign. Did you have any sense of what was going on that something is going on before you saw the sign? Or was the sign the first time you had an inkling that things are changing? Well, I knew something is going on because going back a few months around November of 1938.

I get up on morning and I look at my father's face and it's totally ashen. They just finished listening to the radio and something was happening in Germany, which is right next door. Germany has taken part of Czechoslovakia already.

The question is, are they going to take the rest of it? Now we're going to suffer the same fate. Will our synagogues we burned. We are, with my father and other people being taken to a concentration camp. Now you're talking about Kristallnacht.

Christenacht, exactly. So your father heard about this on the radio and you could see it in his face. Yes. And so it really began then. So I knew things were not going, doing well. And of course, when in the spring of 1939, Slovakia becomes this new fascist

country with a fascist government, in a Nazi government. And now I'm being, I'm being identified as a Jew and limited what I can do. I can't go into the park. In the afternoon, I want to go to the beach. I can't go in because I'm a Jew. So slowly, step by step, I'm being identified as a Jew by having to wear a yellow star.

And I'm being limited to where I can be and when. Like, for instance, no Jew is allowed to be outside on the street when it gets dark. And this is you're talking in 1939. And so that begins the process of saying to me, you don't really belong here. We don't want you. This is before the war started, correct? Yeah, just about right before the war. And this is because of Chamberlain.

Am I right? Yes. Okay. As you pointed out, Chamberlain decided that the thing to do with Germany is to give them what they want and they'll be okay. They're signing an agreement and everybody's going to be happy. Euphoria. Everyone except you and all the Jews in Czechoslovakia. Exactly.

I guess he forgot about you. Eventually, Poland. Eventually, of course, of course. Okay, so now the war starts. What happens to you? You're 10 years old. Well, one thing that happens, I know the war has started. And the way I know it is because where I live is on the border of Poland,

On the eastern part of Slovakia, it right north, actually Poland is about 30, 40 miles north of my city. And through my city, it goes the German army, day and night, beginning in 1939, September. And I see the tanks and the trucks and the bicycles and men in uniform. and it's kind of for a 10-year-old that's a kind of interesting, exciting time. But I also see that the Jews of my town are being picked on by German soldiers. And so this whole thing is becoming more and more real. And very soon, of course, as I pointed out, some limitations are brought upon my life. I can't go to the park, I can't go to the beach, I have to very yellow star.

and slowly that are changes taking place. The newspaper has a headline on it, on top, the name of the paper. On the bottom of the paper, in approximately the same letter size, says, Slovakia is for Slovak's only. And I'm not a Slovak anymore. I'm not a Jew, who is a foreigner in any way. Because the language I speak is Slovak. It's a school.

I went to Slovak. I'm still going to school. But as time goes on, things begin to change because of the propaganda and because the Nazi party called the Hinkler Party has taken on more and more control, things get worse. And one morning I'm walking home with one of my friends and I carry her books. She's a very pretty girl. She happened to be Russian Orthodox. She tells me she does not want me to carry her books anymore. In fact, she doesn't want to talk to me anymore.

And I'm befuddled, you know. Why? Well, because you're a Jew. And my father told me not to be friendly with a Jew because, A, Jews are responsible for every single bad things that happens in the world. And you're evil, just like all the other Jews. And besides, socially, it's unacceptable to be friendly with a Jew. So it's a very personal kind of thing. And as time goes on, things get worse. by September of 1940, I'm ready to go back to school.

It's a public school like everybody else. And I get to the gate of the school, the principal stands there right in front of the gate, looks at me, says, Roth, you can't go in. I see, why not? Because you're a Jew. On that day, every single Jewish student in the whole country was thrown out of school. And simultaneously, by the way, all the Jewish teachers in the whole school system, The whole public school system of the whole country is also fire.

So now begins the economic oppression. Very soon, Jewish attorneys can no longer practice law. What was your father doing at this time? My father had a lumber business. It was producing railroad ties, you know, maybe 50, 60, 100,000 each year, and ship them all over Europe. And so he's still running the business. But then comes along a new law. Jews are no longer allowed to own a business.

So my father, in his wisdom, says, wait a minute, this is not a good thing. Because if somebody walks into my business and throws me out and takes it away from me, you know, that's a big problem. So in his wisdom, he decides to contact one of his Christian friends and saying to him, Albert, I know what's happening and I'm sure you know what's happening. I would like you to take over my business.

We'll put a new marquee on the sign, new stationary, your name on it. You have to do nothing except signs on papers saying we transfer the business to you. And for that, I will reward you and I will continue running. You have to do nothing. Albert being a friend of decades with my father, he says, sure, why not? He signs it. And so we economically don't suffer at the very beginning. However, a few months go by and one day Albert walks into my father's office.

and asked my father, Joe, how is business? So my father says to him, you know, it's great. You know, there's a war going on already. And railroad ties are important. And we're shipping him. And thank God, doing fine. He says, well, I've been thinking about it. After all, it's really is my business, isn't it?

Holy cow. Hold on, hold on, Irving. We're going to go to a break. This is what we call a cliffhanger. Ladies and gentlemen, don't go away. Hi, folks. These uncertain times can cause uncertain gut slowdown. Worrying fear can wreak havoc on our digestion, making it hard to feel optimum.

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Get the tea.com. It is so worth it. Get the ttea.com. Folks, I got some embarrassing news to share with you. But you know what? This is just the kind of a show where I don't care. I'm willing to lay my heart, you know, on the line. Here's the issue. Mike Lindell with my pillow, you may notice that I have a bobble hell of him near me. He's here to remind all of us that when you go to mypillow.com, you get whopping discounts if you use the code Eric. Okay. Now, there are a lot of people who haven't done that and we have your names here. And Chris Heim's and Albin pointed out to me that there's like three pages of you whose first name is Eric. You, you're so, I mean, that's humiliating for me that even though your name is Eric, you're still not willing to use the code Eric.

I mean, if you don't want to use it because it's my name, use it because it's your name. But the point is that I see who you are and I just, I just feel humiliated by this. Please go to Go to mypillar.com. It's okay, Mike. It's going to be okay. Go to mypillar.com. Use the code, Eric. You're going to get whopping savings and really high quality products. Did I mention that?

Thank you. Folks, I'm talking to Irving Roth. He appears in the new movie Never Again about the Holocaust. He was involved in the Holocaust. He was a victim. And he's alive today. Sounds very healthy and youthful at 91. and you were just telling us this horrible moment about how this Gentile,

I don't call him a Christian, a Gentile comes into your father's business and says, oh, by the way, you signed a business over to me, so it really is my business. In his own business, then I as a manager, which is terrible, but not awful totally, because he still has a job, and he still gets paid. And so this is you're talking in 1940. and 41. Meanwhile, of course, the war is going on. From 1939 on, Germany took over Poland, dismembered Czechoslovakia, now it's going into France, Belgium, Holland, and all of Europe, by and large, is now controlled by Germany and its allies, Italy, Hungary, and a few other countries.

Slovakia, of course. So what they're really doing is controlling the whole, all of European continent, with the exception of the Soviet Union. Because they have an agreement with the Soviet Union, and they will not attack the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union will not attack them. It's a written document. But, of course, they're not worth the paper that written on.

And in June of 1941, Germany attacks the Soviet Union. Soviet Union is totally unprepared. And at this point, Germany and Hungary and Slovakia go deep into the Soviet Union. And you would think that what they would do is begin to persecute the Jews. They don't do that. Well, they simply announced the Jewish population of every city, town, and village in the Soviet Union that they occupy. Say you have to gather tomorrow with five pounds of luggage and you're going to be resettled. and if you don't show up, we know where you live

because we have all the records and besides we have people in the Ukraine and other places helping us. With that, we'll burn your house down with you in it. So most of the Jews show up. And they march them out to the forest or to a ravine as they did in Kiev and machine gunned them.

So the mass murder of Jews by bullets begins in the summer of 1941. Now, we hear the rumor that Jews are being murdered. Because we can't believe that. Because Germany, after all, is a cultured country. My father, during World War I, fought in the trenches together with Hungarian soldiers and German soldiers. It can't be. This must be just a rumor.

But more rumors. And, in fact, by the end of 1941, probably around a half a million Jews in the Soviet Union had been murdered. You know, I'm not aware of this history exactly because I know that the so-called final solution doesn't happen until the end of 42, right? And so the actual idea of the mass murder in the death camps still hadn't been hatched by the Nazis. Well, this is not, the death camps are not quite there yet. Right. At this point, they're beginning to think about it, evidently, but we don't know what's going on. So they keep murdering Jews in the Soviet Union.

Simultaneously, Hungary decides that there are many Jews in Hungary, about 15,000, who are not citizens of Hungary, who are mostly Polish Jews. So they ship them off to a place called communist Podlsk when they are promptly murdered. Now, we hear these rumors, we don't really believe him. So history takes over again. So by the end of 1941, about a half a million Jews in the Soviet Union and some from other places like Hungary are now murdered and buried in mass graves. But the objective is a total annihilation of the Jewish people. In German, it's called Endlauze, means the final solution to the Jewish question. And the final solution is very specific.

There shall be no living Jew on the country. So they look at the number of Jews that exist in Europe, and how many they manage to murder? So they manage to murder about a half a million. Total Jewish population of all of Europe is about 10 to 11 million. And that rate, it would take 10 years to get into the Jews. At half a million every six months, a million a year, 10 years, not a good solution. And so that's when something takes place called the one, a one, a million a year, 10 years, not a good solution. So that's when something takes place called the Van Zay Conference. Turns out it happens to take place on the 20th of January of 1942.

So here you have the Brain Trust of Germany, sitting together with a single item on the agenda. How are we going together of all the 10 million Jews or 11 million Jews in all of Europe in a short time? Now, Irving, I have to interrupt you just to ask you, because some of this I know and some I don't, but it's such a mind-boggling thing. It should be mind-boggling that the German leadership,

the Nazis decided. It's one thing to say we hate these people. It's another thing to say we're going to murder every one of them. It takes a kind of a leap that we never saw before in civilization. And when we come back, I want to talk to you about this because it's just something that the reason the movie is called never again is because this was so horrible. We, the civilized world, vowed never again. And that's why we have to hear from you and why we have to talk about this.

We'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to Irving Roth. Don't go away. Folks, I'm talking to Irving Roth. What is that, Jewish? Roth is in German red. And evidently, as the Jews took on, surnames, my great-grandfather must have had a red beard or something.

I was just joking. If Irving Roth is not Jewish, there's no Jewish name. Irving, your story, you know, you say it, you tell it with such peace in your heart, smile on your face, but it's such dark stuff. We're getting to the point now where we talk about the Vancey conference, which took place in the beginning of 1942, to where the Germans make this decision to prioritize the murder of every man, woman, and child who is Jewish. Do we have any sense of why they believed this was necessary? In other words, if you want to win a war, you don't want to put your efforts too much into something like that. Why do you think, or did they ever say why they wanted to do something as monstrous, as murdering,

millions of people. That's part of the propaganda of this whole idea. Because the way they began to persecute the Jews in Germany in particular, they blamed Jews for losing World War I. They blame Jews for the huge super hyperinflation they had. They blamed the Jews for the Versailles Conference and its unfairness to the German people. Right.

So they're at fault. So if someone is at fault, you need to punish them. So you begin by throwing out of school. You do it by economics. But eventually, what are you going to do with them? They're still there. So eventually you decide they've been evil enough. They've caused enough problem to you as a German.

They took away your job. They swindled you. All that. They wreak your women. Because all pure humbug. But the longer you go, with this thing, the further it takes you. Well, when you, we're talking now about what happened in 1942.

So how is your life now? You're 13, 14 years old. What's going on with you at this point? So the conference takes place in January. And by the middle of that year, middle of 1942, different countries and its leaderships are required by Germany to tell them what they want to do with the Jews. and Slovakia decides

if you want to get rid of him. He says, we'll do that for you. All you have to do is put them cattle cars, bring them to the Polish border where we have built death camps. You'll pay us for that job.

500 crowns. I don't remember what the exchange rate was. You'll pay us 500 crowns for each you will take off your hands and we'll get rid of them for you. And so in the middle of the summer, early summer of 1942, on a Friday night in my town, there are about 2,000 Jews.

1,800, I picked up that night from their homes, many women and children, taken to the synagogue, which is a relatively small place because synagogues that didn't have 2,000 seats in a small city. But 1,800 people are stuck in there. Now, the synagogue itself was a lovely place, but they had no bathrooms or running water. And here are 1,800 human beings with no bathrooms, no running water, no air conditioning in the middle of the summer of 1942, stuffed there for 36 hours. And you were one of them? No.

My father was exempt, my whole family. And what the 10% I'm talking about are those people who are still necessary to run the economy of the city. So like the chief engineer of the city, of my city, was a Jew. But you can't just simply replace them in zero time on a Friday night. It takes time. So he's exempt from this, as is his family. So my family was exempt because my father was still running Albert's business, and he needed him. So he gets an exemption, which means most of my friends from school and my relatives are all gone.

Because by Sunday afternoon, they'll watch the railroad station, stuffed into cattle cars, and the train leaves. I have no idea where they're going, they're gone. A few months go by, a month's going. A month morning, my grandfather and grandmother are arrested. And we managed to get them out. But we know we're in trouble. And so we must do something about it. We must disappear out of Slovakia.

And so we decide to go into Hungary. And the reason we decided to go to Hungary because Hungary was a strange place. At the beginning in 1941, the gallery of Polish Jews. But the Hungarian Jews were still at home. They were not affected by the deportation at all in 1942, or 43 for that matter. So we, off to Hungary, we go. My grandparents, my parents, my brother and I, we're in Hungary, it's 1943, beginning of 1944.

Hungary is fundamentally taken over, in a sense, the political system by the Nazi group called Nielash, or the Strait Arrow Party, and they are in totally in agreement with Nazi Germany together of the Jews. And so in the spring of 1944, in 53 days, 437,000 Jews are taken from their homes, through a quick stop at a ghetto, into cattle cars, to Auschwitz. That's what happens to me. I'm living in a small village with my grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousin. My father and mother went off, when we came to Hungary, we go off to Budapest because my father needed a job. And so he was an accountant by education

and profession. They went to Budapest, got a job and started working in 43. And things seemed to be working pretty well, because the war is going well for England and America and Russia. Because by 1944, beginning of 44, France is now in American hands. Italy is in American hands. They're about to invade France in June of 1944. They're bombing the cities of Germany day and night. and their anti-aircraft guns can't shoot them down. So it looks good.

And we're in Hungary. I'm still alive. This is my brother, my parents, grandparents, waiting for the war to end quickly. In the spring of 1944, Hungary, the Hungarian police, part of the military, with the help of 250 members of the Gestapo. Under the leadership of Adolf Eichmann,

we're going to pause right there. We'll be back, folks. More with Irving Roth. Folks, I'm talking to Irving Roth. There's a movie. It's called Never Again. It's in theaters October 13th and 15th. And we want you to go see it.

Irving appears in it along with many others. Irving, you just, I want to hear your whole story. We're not going to get to it in the next few minutes. So you're telling me that right now, this was 1944, that you kind of come to the end. You've been very successful in eluding the Nazis up until this point. So where are we now? What month is it in 44? It is end of April, beginning of May of 1944, and the deportation of the Jews from

hungry takes place. In 53 days, 437,000 Jews of Hungary are disappeared in a way. So I'm in a cattle car. After three days, it stops. It's nighttime. The doors are slid open and everybody out, screaming and yelling. Harouse. Mahshna, take nothing with you. Form lines. I get out. All these people with submachine guns and weapons telling us to stand in line. line. In the distance, I see flames coming out of chimneys. So you can imagine the scary part of that, because it's against the black sky. And the line begins to move, and suddenly I'm separated from my grandfather and grandmother and aunt and 10-year-old cousin. And my brother and I going one direction. In fact, I would say about 10% or 12% of the people who arrived

in that train, about 4,000 approximately, 3,700, 3,000, 3,000. 3,000. are separated from the small group, and they're much of those buildings, the flames. Now, of course, we have no idea what they are. They're told they're going to take a shower, and after the shower, because they've been in a train for so many days, after the shower, they're going to get a hot meal,

and things will be organized. But really what happens is men and women are separated, going down a set of steps. There are four of these major buildings, building complexes, really, because they consist of gas chambers and crematorium, and about night, by the next 24 hours, my grandfather and grandmother, and then cousin, and all the 3,700 or so people of my old transport, are now ashes.

I'm tattooed on my arm and marched out of that within a number of hours to another part of the camp, which is about two miles away, which is the slave labor camp, and I'm assigned to work. Now, here I am 14 and a half years old. I've never worked in my life. I looked in the city and suddenly I am not draining swamps and plowing fields. Hard labor,

very little food, about 350 calories a day. It was calculated scientifically that if you give a body by 350, 400 calories a day, the body can sustain itself for six to eight months. At which time

your body gives out and you either die And if you don't, they have a new process for people who survive the first selection. And that is another selection. So that you come back from work, they take you to take a shower. So you get undressed. And as you're walking into the shower, there's a doctor in uniform who looks at you for an instant of time and decides that should continue to live or not. That's simple.

It's mind-boggling to me that you experienced this, and I'm talking to you right now about this. We're out of time in this hour, folks. I want to encourage you. The movie is Never Again. It's in theaters October 13th and 15th featuring Irving Roth and many other guests, including our friend Dennis Prager. We're out of time now, but we're going to keep you around Irving to continue the conversation in any of event. Thank you so much for your time thus far. Thank you.