The Eric Metaxas Show - Jack Wagner

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Senior council for Alliance Defending Freedom Jack Wagner joins to discuss the work they're doing and how you can help. 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments. Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready to listen to a man of grace, sophistication, integrity, and whimsy? Well, so are we. But until such a man shows up, please welcome Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. Hey, Chris Himes, are you there? I am. Where are you? Well, I'm at home, but my background green screen is a studio in the city. How clever, tricky and deceptive of you. I am in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Michigan.

I used to come to Grand Rapids a lot. But I think the last few years have been so crazy. In any event, I'm here for an event tonight at Cornerstone. University, which is a wonderful Christian university. I actually did not know of it. And I was shocked once I realized how big it is, how amazing it is, how they are holding the line the way a lot of Christian universities like Wheaton are not holding the line. Like it's, it's really encouraging when you meet some good guys. So Cornerstone University here in Grand Rapids, there's a big event tonight. It's kind of a big deal, 1,100 people. and we're talking about the future of the church, from my perspective in America, the future of the church.

And I, let's see, tomorrow I fly to Dallas where I have an event, Christ for the Nations, a big event on Saturday night. Then I fly to San Antonio, which Texas is so big that you could not walk or take a bus. you got to get on a plane to go from Dallas to San Antonio. And then so there's a wonderful pregnancy gala event, a pregnancy center gala event in San Antonio. And then I'm flying back to Dallas for the Socrates and the city stuff. That's going to be at the Fort Worth Club.

That is totally sold out. Amazing. So a lot of stuff ahead. We are doing the fundraising. Sorry to cut you off, but I can't have to compare you to Taylor Swift in so many ways. You're like in a different town every day. And, you know, it's, you need a tour bus.

I'm across between Taylor Swift and Johnny Appleseed and a Methodist circuit rider. But I, but seriously, it's crazy. And I was going to say right now, we are doing a fundraiser for the Alliance defending freedom who fight in court for your religious liberties and free speech. These are American heroes. And we've been pushing this really hard. And almost no one has donated anything. And I don't know if it's because you hate me. No, Eric, it's not that.

It's just because the Taylor Swift concert tickets are really expensive. Or is it because of that? Yeah. But I want to say, listen, if you cannot afford to give to the lines defending freedom, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to those of you who can afford to give something, which is most of you. And I want to say that there are very few places you can give that are, you know,

how do I put it? There's no downside here that they are battling in the courts for religious liberty and freedom of speech. I mean, I don't know. If you go to metaxis talk.com, which I believe you're biblically obliged to do that, go to metaxon talk.com. You'll see the banner at the top. It's right at the top.

But you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to have on Jack Wagner. He is one of the senior counsel, one of the, you know, principal figures who is fighting for our liberties at the Alliance defending freedom, doing so like for next to nothing, you know, he could make a lot of money doing other stuff. But there are a lot of heroes at the Alliance defending freedom. I said, let's get one of these guys on. So we'll have him on in a couple of seconds, and he can get into the weeds of some of the great stuff they're doing. It is phenomenal, just phenomenal.

Some people, Kristen Wagner is the head of Alliance Defending Freedom. She's amazing. She sent out an email this morning about the Jack Phillips case. He continues to have to fight in the courts. And guess what? It's the Alliance Defending Freedom that's fighting for him. So. Eric, I was just going to mention we have a Dutch pass. who, you know, was basically imprisoned.

And people don't realize what it's like in other countries just to live your faith publicly and privately and how good we have it here. But that can change and people are trying to change it. You know what? We are going to, maybe an hour two today. We'll play the interview that we did yesterday with pastor. It's actually the Danish, not Dutch, Danish pastor, Torben. His story is just amazing. It's amazing what happened to him in Denmark.

And then in the United States, he came here looking for religious asylum because he was being persecuted. So maybe an hour or two, we can play that story. This is real, folks. This is real. We have an opportunity to do something about it. That's exciting. I want to be real clear. The fact that we still can fight is a huge thing.

But then we must fight. We must, must, must do everything we can. There's a lot we can do. One of those things is giving to the Alliance defending freedom. That's just one thing. But I beg you, folks, to go to the website, our website, metastastalksot.com, click on the banner. There's all kinds of stuff there. I put it on Twitter today.

But it's important. So before we get to Jack Wagner, everybody's talking about the fact that Kevin McCarthy was shown the door. He was the speaker of the house, but he was shown the door, and he is no longer the speaker of the house. This is historic. And a lot of people, what I find interesting is a lot of the right people are really angry about it. People that I kind of thought, you know, I suspected that they were not exactly where I am

and where a lot of us are in the country. and so we have them fulminating. So on Twitter, I put out a tweet that it's a Seinfeld quote. Well, it's actually reference of a Seinfeld quote. And it says what I think I said on the program yesterday when we started, The Swamp was very angry last night, my friends, like an old man ordering soup at a deli. And I had a GIF or whatever they call it, a GIF of Newt Ingritch.

you know, obviously very upset. But I, if Jim Jordan were able to be the speaker, that would be unbelievable. It would be unbelievable because he is such a fire brand. He's so brilliant. He gets all the stuff that I think people need to get. And so I'm, I'm encouraged by this development that I think most Americans have had it with the fake leadership of the, of the Republican Party. I mean, Kevin McCarthy broke many, many promises.

Like, that's, that's literally why Matt Gates was able to do what he did, because it was, it was a clear deal. You know, we're going to let you be speaker. You have to assent to this,

this, this, and he did. And then he didn't do what he, what he said he was going to do. That's kind of simple. It's kind of a character issue. Am I wrong, Chris?

Perhaps I'm wrong. No, I think people are tired of, you know, legitimately tired of the way things work in Washington and also, you know, the fact that we bring in $5 trillion a year and spend seven, I don't know why everyone isn't talking about that 24 or 7. It's really terrifying to a lot of people. And I think this is part of it. Yeah. Well, no, that's the point is that you have an open border.

You're spending infinitely more than. then you're taking in. Like, this is as basic as it gets. It's so basic. So you need people who understand that. A lot of people don't understand it. But let me just say, if you want to be Speaker of the House, it's kind of a good thing for you to understand that.

So anyway, I'm encouraged by these developments. And I think sometimes you have to shake people up and let them know if you made a promise, like, we're actually going to hold you to that promise. We're not going to, like, play the game. And I think anyway, so I'm generally in favor of that. Okay, so in a couple of seconds, we're going to bring on Jack Wagner. And I just have to say again, like, listen, folks, this is good news that we can fight, that we are in a battle.

We're in a war in this nation. And we still have the ability to fight, but we need everyone to fight and to step up. So we'll get some details from Jack Wagner about what ADF is doing, just so you understand what they're doing, because it's important and they need your help. Metaxistalkisalk.com. You'll see the banner at the top. We'll be right back with Jack Wagner.

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To get started, you're going to love this free new tool that they've added. Please go check it out today. That's legacy pm investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, I told you, I told you that in this segment, I would bring on on Senior Counsel for the Alliance Defending Freedom, Jack Wagner. And as it turns out, he just corrected me. I'm mispronouncing Jack. He pronounces it Vincent, which is bizarre.

Vincent, if you insist, Vincent Wagner, welcome to the program. Thanks, Eric. It's an easy mistake to make. Yes, yes, it is. No, you know, I was saying to you that I was getting confused because I mentioned Jack Phillips. A lot of people know the case of Jack Phillips, the Baker who has been attacked and attacked and attacked in Colorado.

And you guys at the Alliance Defending Freedom have been defending him. And the head of ADF, Kristen Wagner, no relationship to Vincent Wagner. You said there's an O in her name? That's right. She's got two Gs and an O that I laugh. Sorry, an extra G and an O that are missing from my name. What's that all about? Okay, so in any event, I'm trying to confuse my audience.

But I got an email from her this morning talking about you guys at the Alliance Defending Freedom, defending Jack Phillips, the masterpiece bake shop owner, who I've met him several times, a humble man, a man of God, who refuses to do what people tell him to do because of his faith. And he has been so attacked in Colorado. And if it weren't for you guys at the Alliance Defending Freedom, he would just be literally at a business, bankrupt. I mean, that's one thing that maybe a lot of people are aware of that the Alliance Defending Freedom has done. But the fact that that battle goes on, can you say a little bit about, I mean, this has been many, many, many years. that ADF, pro bono for free, has been defending this hero, Jack Phillips in Colorado.

Can you say why that's still going on? Well, Colorado and folks in Colorado haven't let Jack move on with his life. I mean, just this week, the Colorado Supreme Court agreed to take Jack's case again. So the fight continues. And like you said, Eric, don't charge Jack a dime. We don't charge any of our clients a dime. We do this all for free to protect Americans free. and you may be already familiar with the five areas we focus on.

Jacks falls within the category of religious liberty. We want to protect all Americans freedom to exercise their religion, not just think about it privately in their house or in the church pew, but to exercise it in society. So protect religious freedom. Protect the free speech of all Americans. You know, that comes up a lot lately on college campuses of where a lot of those cases are. Protect the sanctity of life.

We played a big role in last year's victory in Dobbs. Our team, our life team was helping the state of Mississippi defend the law that the Supreme Court eventually held was constitutional and overruled row on. We have been religious freedom, free speech, life. We protect marriage and the family. And then what I'm here to talk about today, we protect parental rights. They're under attack in a way that they haven't been really before in our society. society. And so we're looking for ways to ensure that governments from the local government at your school board all the way up to the federal government in D.C. protects the fundamental God-given right

of parents to be the ones who make decisions about what happens in their kids' lives. It's parents' duty to guide their children into adulthood. And we want to make sure parents have the right to exercise that duty as God calls them to. Okay. So I'm sure most of my audience is tracking us. a little bit with this. We're dealing with something new in America. And again, folks, if this doesn't shock you and sicken you, you're not paying any attention. We've never had this in America before where the state, the government, would dare, would dare to come in and to say, we have the right in effect to tell you, shut up, go away.

We own your children. We will tell them what to think. and we will bar you from having influence over your own children. This is the kind of stuff that happened in the former Soviet Union. This is the kind of stuff that happens in the most wicked communist, atheist, dictatorships in the world. This is what happened. It began to happen in Germany under the Nazis, where the Nazis said,

we're going to educate your kids, parents. If you're some Christian parent, you have different views, we don't care. We'll send you to a concentration camp if you open up your mouth. That has come to America. And, you know, I say this most days that I didn't think I would see it. It's inconceivable that in the United States of America, we would have this kind of thing happening. And we know, of course, it's happening big time in California right now. Talk a little bit about that. But I want to say again, folks, the reason I have Vincent Wagner on with the Alliance Defending Freedom is we need your help. They need your help in doing this.

They can't do this on their own. They require those of us who care about these things to step up and to donate what we can. So we're asking you all to go to metaxis talk.com. You'll see a banner at the top. We're asking people to donate monthly. It's much easier if you want to do that. If you want to give a big gift right away, you want to do something right away. Obviously, that's needed.

But to make it easier, you can give monthly. Just go to metaxis talk.com. But Vincent Wagner, tell us about this idea of parental rights. It's an absolutely new thing in America that we would have to fight for this. It's amazing to me. Yeah, that's right. You mentioned California, Eric, but it is under attack in California. Don't get me wrong, but it's not just California. It's in communities from California to Alaska all the way to Maine and Florida. It's every corner of our country. And a key place that we've seen this is in this issue of schools thinking they need to step between kids and their parents and hide from parents what's going on with their kid in the school, particularly when it comes to issues of gender identity. So I can tell you a story about that.

a nice lady in Indiana that we represent right now named Kathy McCord. She was a school counselor. And it's greater Indianapolis area. She'd been in education for almost four years. About 37 years. She'd been a school counselor most of that time. And this district enacted one of these policies where they start to call a boy by female pronouns or use a female name for the boy.

And unless there's – and if the kid doesn't – They don't tell the parents what's going on. They do this without parental notification sometimes and without parental consent to this practice. And they asked Kathy to participate in this. She always had problems with it. She's a school counselor. So she's a key part of this policy of treating kids as the wrong sex. And finally, a reporter in the Indianapolis area finds out about it.

He calls her to ask questions about the policy. she confirms that it's going on. She tells him the truth about what he already knows. And then a couple months later, earlier this year, she was fired for talking to that reporter. So we're representing Kathy. And she sues the school district for this unconstitutional firing of her for exercising her free speech rights.

And also to put a stop to this unconstitutional policy that gets between kids and their parents, that cuts parents out of these key decisions in a kid's life. Parents have a right to know. know if their kids are struggling with something like gender identity. And the schools in Indiana, not just California and not just Indiana, all over the place, are thinking they know better than parents. And they get to make these decisions without parental involvement.

It is satanic. It's utterly despicable to divide children from their parents is so wicked, but it's happening in America. And again, folks, I want to say, like, the thing that has come to my attention, very recently is that the devil needs inertia. All we have to do is nothing. We don't have to join the evil people. All we have to do is nothing. Don't give a dime. Don't say a word. Don't switch to a church that cares about this. Don't vote for people. Just don't do anything. And evil is prevailing now in the United States of America because we've ceased to understand that we the people, each of us,

a responsibility to do our civic duty to represent those things in which we believe. If we don't represent those things, if we don't give money to organizations like ADF that is doing this, then no one will do this. No one will fight for this woman. She will lose her job and the next person will lose her job and the next guy will lose his job. And it's game over. Our schools have been taken over by leftist, atheists, maniacs because we did nothing. It's actually happening. It will happen unless we do something. But we can do something. And that's why I want to say, folks, you've got to understand each of us has a responsibility to do something with this kind of thing. There is no one who does this better than the Alliance defending freedom. They are literally in

the courts fighting these battles pro bono so that somebody who could not afford this kind of thing who's lost her job has the ability to fight. So again, we're asking you to go to metaxis talk.com. The banners right there. Here's a phone number. 855-385-0596. 855-385-0-5-96. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal.

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these towels are highly recommended. They're luxuriously soft and super absorbent, meaning they actually function like a towel should. With this special deal, you'll get two bath towels, two hand towels, and two wash cloths. A complete set normally 79.98, but for a limited time for all my listeners, go to mypillow.com, use promo code Eric to snag this set for just $39.99. That's a 50% discount. Visit mypillar.com today or dial 800, 978-3057 to grab this deal with promo code Eric. Act fast. It won't last. Use promo code Eric for more specials. 800-97783057. Use promo code Eric or Mypillow.com. Welcome back. I'm excited to have right now Vincent Wagner. He's a senior council with the

Alliance Defending Freedom. As you know, we're asking you to help us to help Alliance Defending Freedom, to help the United States of America, to help yourself by giving to the Alliance Defending Freedom. This is a brutal battle that we're in for the soul of this nation. The Alliance Defending Freedom is right there on the front lines. And you can go to Metaxistock.com and give whatever you can. We are asking for a number of people to be what we're calling champions of freedom. That's $19 per month. If you want to do that, we need people to do that. We need people to do more than that. Vincent Wagner, welcome back. And please just tell us what else is the Alliance Offending Freedom

working on right now? We've got other parental rights cases in the works, Eric, and we just had a victory this week, and one of them. We're working with the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty on a case against the Kettle Moraine School District in Wisconsin. And just this week, a Wisconsin state trial court said that that school district had violated some parents' rights by transitioning their daughter not only without their permission, but against their express instruction not to do so. They knew she was struggling with some mental health issues, and they told the school, we have her in counseling, we're dealing with this as a family, please let us work on this as a family. And the school said, no, we know better than you. And we're going to do.

what we're going to do regardless of your instructions. And just this, just this week, the court there in Wisconsin said that that was an unconstitutional action by the school. And we're really pleased with that victory and thankful for the partnership of the Wisconsin Institute for Long Liberty in that case, which it's just, you've talked about our work more broadly, Eric, and I just want to emphasize that we're in this to win, whether it's parental rights or anything else. You know, we've had 15 victories at the U.S. Supreme Court since 2011. So whether it's at the Supreme Court or at a state trial Court in Wisconsin. We want to win. We want to protect the rights of parents and the rights of all Americans to live their lives as God calls them to. Well, again, it's an astonishing thing that this

is happening in America. And I want to wake up my audience. I mean, it's amazing to me, how many people are unaware of these things or kind of act like, well, it's happening to somebody else. It doesn't matter. Folks, you're wrong. It's happening to you. It's happening to your children. It's happening to your grandchildren. It's happening to your parents. If you have living parents, it's happening in America to Americans. It's just that, you know, the people doing this don't want you to wake up. They don't want you to fight.

They are fundamentally transforming America into a tyrannist dictatorship. It's a dictatorship where there's the establishment of a new religion. The Constitution says we cannot have an establishment of religion. they're trying to establish what is effectively an anti-biblical religion so that that's the default mode and all of the stuff if you have a biblical view you don't even have the right to live it out to express it. They're saying, no, you're wrong. We trump that. We win. Unless you fight them in the courts, unless you actually fight them in the courts, they're doing this and they're doing it right now. There are innumerable cases that we don't know about that ADF hasn't heard about yet.

This is happening right now. And so when it happens to you or to someone you know, what do you do? Where do you turn? Well, this is the point. You turn to the Alliance defending freedom and you say to them, will you help me? And they don't say to you, well, it's going to cost you $400,000 in legal bills. They say, we will pay, we will do this because we have our fellow Americans give to the Alliance defending freedom so that we can do this for free. And we will fight in the courts for free, even up to the Supreme Court. We fight to win. That's exciting. And, you know, Vincent Wagner, you are saying that you guys cover five issues, roughly speaking.

There's one of the parental rights, which is shocking. The issue of religious liberty, this is so big. And I remember when Chuck Colson, whom I loved and revered, he would talk about this. I remember not understanding exactly what that meant. And now I understand it like crazy, that we are given by the Constitution, by God, in the Constitution, the ability to live out our faith, not just to, like you said, another time to privately believe these things, but to live it out. And you guys at ADF are fighting for that because that is under attack in America. Freedom of Speech is under attack in America.

the same thing life is under attack in America and you guys at ADF are on the front lines. How do you get involved with ADF, Vincent? How did I get involved? Yeah. I mean, when did this happen for you? So this goes back to when I was a law student. One of ADF's great programs is a program for educating law students in the role of biblical principles. as a lawyer. And that was life-changing for me. It was, it's called the Blackstone Legal Fellowship.

And it was a great summer. They arranged an internship for me. And I went to a lot of great seminars, learned a lot of things about natural law, about constitutional law. And it was very, very formative for me. And so my relationship with ADF goes back, you know, we always call ourselves baby lawyers. And since I was a baby lawyer. Well, I want to say to people, we are doing a fundraiser this month. We need everybody to step up. Folks, that technically means you. So you go to metaxis talk.com.

There's a banner. You don't have to give a lot, whatever you can give. But we are begging everybody to get involved. There's a phone number. If you want to go to metaxis talk.com, you'll see the banner. Otherwise, you can dial 855-385-0-596-855-8-85-385. 0596. Thank you. When the government used emergency edicts during COVID to restrict the gathering and worship of churches,

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like companies paying for abortion travel. You need to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric to connect with an InspireAdvisors financial professional who can run your report and help remove companies paying for abortion travel today. Go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. That's inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Advisory services are offered through Inspire Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the SEC. Folks, welcome back. I've got for this segment, Vincent Wagner, he's a senior council at the Alliance Defending Freedom.

You know that this month we're doing a fundraiser for them. They are heroes in the battle for Liberty in America. And I am begging you to get involved and to do anything you can do by going to Metaxistalk.com. You'll see the banner there. there's a phone number, but we really, really need your help. This is not optional stuff. If you don't help, Alliance Defending Freedom cannot do what they do. They're doing amazing things.

And I just wanted Vincent Wagner to come on. He's senior counsel with ADF to talk a little bit about some of the things they're doing. So, Vincent, what were we going to talk about? We're going to talk about the national trends against the issues ADF works on. We've been talking about parental rights. But this one touches on all of our issues. We call them our generational wins, our five generational wins. And it's the new Title IX rules that the Biden administration is poised to release.

They've said it's coming in October 2023. We're waiting for it. But Title IX is the law that was passed in the 70s to make sure that schools treat boys and girls fairly. We talk about it a lot in the context of women's sports. It's the reason why girls have an opportunity to play sports as much as they do in America today. But the Biden administration is looking to reinterpret the term sex to mean gender identity in Title IX, which totally blows up the statutory idea behind Title IX, where we say boys and girls need equal opportunities, but it's going to say, we're not sure what a boy and a girl is anymore. And this touches on all the issues we've been talking about, Eric. you know, the chief one on my mind is parental rights where the Title IX rule has suggested, we're still waiting on the final version, I should make clear, but when it comes down,

we think it's going to tell schools from coast to coast that they need to enact the sorts of secret transition policies we've been discussing this morning, where the Biden administration is going to tell local schools, you need to keep secrets from parents about important things that are going on in their kids' lives at school. And Title IX touches on so many other aspects of the kids' school day. The biggest one is sports. I mean, it's targeting the category of women's sports in particular, but it also is going to undermine teacher-free speech and just the rule of law.

As we've explained, we filed five different comment letters with the Biden administration explaining all the different problems with this, over 500 pages of materials to just say, you shouldn't do this, please stop. but all indications are that they're plowing ahead anyways. Well, look, this is, I've talked about this a lot when I wrote my book on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, what I saw in doing the research, a lot of times we have a very cartoonish view of things. And we think, oh, there's good, there's evil, and the Nazis were evil, and it's very simple. It's not so simple.

They use the law day by day. to get more power. So in the early 30s, Germans had the ability to use the law to fight against this. The church had the ability to stand against this. They didn't do enough. And so every day, new laws were passed, new encroachments on what their rights were in Germany at the time. So it happened day by day, case by case. It didn't happen like, whoop, you know, suddenly we have a dictator and you're dead. you have no rights. It took time and it took effort. And if you don't fight against it, you lose. Well, that's what's happening in America. You have the Biden administration, which is at war with anyone who has biblical values or who believes in the Constitution. Think about that.

And so now they are trying to impose things on everyone in America that are unconstitutional, that are anathema to anyone with biblical values, anyone who loves family, who loves country. These are just absolute violations. And if you don't fight, if we don't fight, they win. And so that is exactly what is happening right now. And that's why I'm asking you to give to the Alliance Defending Freedom, because this is how we fight.

The Alliance Defending Freedom takes these things, takes these cases, and fights. And I'm just telling you, folks, this is, it's a chilling thing that's happening, but we need to wake up, understand that it's happening, and then thank the Lord that we have the ability right now to fight, right now to fight, not just to deal with it by saying, well, we're going to suffer, Lord, help us. No, the Lord is calling us now to fight for the sake of all of those who can't fight, for the sake of those who can't give $19 a month to the lines defending freedom, for the sake of those who are going to be persecuted and don't know where to turn,

except the Alliance Defending Freedom exists to help them. So I want to say again, we're asking you to be a champion of liberty by giving $19 a month to the Alliance Defending Freedom. You can give less. You can give more. You have to go to Metaxistalk.com. You'll see the banner there. But we absolutely depend on each of you doing something. while we have the ability to do something.

And I want to say it again, while we have the ability, because if we lose a couple of these battles, it's over. You will not be able to give money to the Alliance Defending Freedom. You will not be able to turn to the Alliance ofending Freedom when they come for you. This is not histrionics. This is not hyperbole. This is where we are now. And so I'm hoping that you will be moved to do something because this is as important as it gets.

There's a phone number, which I will give you. It's 855-385-0-5-96, if you prefer to call or you can go again to Metaxistalk.com. And there's a banner, 855-385-0-5-96. And Vincent, it just seems to me so encouraging that you and other young lawyers are spending your careers doing something beautiful like this for your country. it is just, it must be a nice thing to know that you're not, you're not just making a book. You're actually making a difference. That's right, Eric. And, you know, ADF's mission is to advance the God-given right to live and speak the truth.

And it's just a real pleasure to work on that issue and to work with our wonderful clients who are brave and who were just thrilled to be able to stand up in court and say, you know, Kathy McCord, she took a stand. These families in Kettlemarine, Wisconsin, they said, no, you can't do this to our child, and you can't do this to other families. And so, yeah, it's a real pleasure to represent people like those families, like Kathy, to say, you know, we have a right to live according to God's law and to protect that right. It's just an amazing thing that we can still fight.

So, folks, I exhort you to join this battle. Please tell your friends, tell your family. Let's do this. Go to metaxis talk.com. There's a banner at the top there. Everybody needs to be rejoicing that we get to fight. We get to do something about this. We have people to whom we can turn.

ADF is that amazing organization to whom we can turn, to whom many are turning, but they need our help right now, Metaxus talk.com. Folks, welcome back. I have as my guest, Vincent Wagner, Senior Counsel at the Alliance Defending Freedom. You know that we are asking you, every one of you, to get involved this month in fighting for liberty. People always ask me, Eric, what can I do? What can we do?

You can do this. This is a small thing, but please step up. Go to Metaxus talk.com. Folks, please, this is just like you can do this right now. Vincent Wagner, you've been with ADF for a while, and you're a while. and you're aware that this is ultimately like a national thing. This is not, you're fighting these battles all over, but it's the nation is at stake. That's right, Eric.

We've talked already about cases in Indiana, Wisconsin, but you brought up California, which is trying to pass very dangerous anti-parent laws. We know of cases that we're involved in in Florida, in Massachusetts. We've heard stories of parents from states everywhere in between, even states that I imagine your listeners living in Texas think they're safe from these threats, but we hear stories from families in Texas even. You know, it's just a national movement against parents and against religious freedom that we're working as hard as we can to defend Americans against.

Well, again, you know, I say to people that it's a lot of times people wonder, what can I do? They say, gee, what can I do? And sometimes, you know, there are many things we can do. But in this case, it's like it's teed up for you, folks. What you can do is you can help those who are already at the forefront in this war against liberties that we have, patriots have died. Patriots have given their blood and their lives for the very things that are under attack right now. And so the least we can do.

is to help the Alliance Defending Freedom do this. They're not getting rich off of this. Okay, they're doing this because they believe it's right. They believe in it. And they are doing this pro bono. So when somebody comes to them and says, I am being fired, I'm being attacked, I'm being, what do I do? They don't say, well, can you pay? They say, we will take this on because we actually believe in this.

And the only reason they can do that is because you give to the Alliance Defending Freedom. So I know there are folks out there who can give a lot of money. I know there are people who can barely give anything. But I'm asking you folks, whatever you can give, do your part. It's between you and the Lord. This is not a contest. This is about an opportunity to stand up and to fight for what is right and true and good. And it is going away if we don't fight.

And I think a lot of us have been inured to these evils over time. we kind of think, well, there's nothing I can do. That's the voice of the devil. There is plenty that you can do, but you must do it. So if you go to our website, it's metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner there. When you click on the banner, it gives you all kinds of options to do whatever you like. But we're talking about issues of religious liberty, issues of free speech, parental rights, life in the womb, marriage.

Remember marriage between a man and a woman? All of this stuff, if you don't fight in the courts, you lose automatically. You lose by default because that's kind of where we are. And so we've just got to do this. So we have a short opportunity. So I'm exhorting you. You should be inspired, folks, that ADF exists and is doing this. And that's why they come to us to say, help us to do what we're already doing.

doing. So again, you go to Metaxistalkis Talk.com. You'll see the banner. The phone number, you can call right now, 855-385-0-5-96. Again, it's 855-385-0-96. Or again, Metaxistalk.com, you'll see the banner. Vincent Wagner, God bless. He's you and God bless your colleagues at ADF. We are just proud to work with you. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me on, Eric.