The Eric Metaxas Show - James Lindsay (Encore)

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

James Lindsay discusses the term "The Woke Right" and who it is.

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Folks, it is Tuesday, June the 3rd. So I'm told I am in Greece. I'm not recording this from Greece, but I'm telling you that I am in Greece. And because I'm in Greece, we are rerunning my conversation, which was an important one with James Lindsay, about what he calls the woke right.

He's been challenged on this. There's been some argument. I said, I want to get to the bottom of what does he mean by this? What's happening on the right that is also happening on the left? We call it woke on the left, but if it happens on the right, it's also woke. What is he talking about? At the heart of it is anti-Semitism and a kind of tribalism that we see on the right. I really think it's when you, it's like when you take God out and the love of God, the love of Jesus, out of conservatism, it tends toward demonic tribalism.

And so it's very interesting. And I just thought I wanted to really cover this with him. So if you haven't heard this or if you have heard it, I think you want to hear it again. So we're going to play that in a couple of minutes. I will reiterate that since I'm in Greece, I'm not going to be doing radio. If you want to follow me, I would follow me on Instagram because I'm going to be doing lots of fun videos from the boat, from islands in Greece. It's going to be nuts. So I think you want to follow me on Instagram.

And I want to mention that. Also, if you follow me, if you have the free newsletter at erkmantaxas.com, it's free. Go to ericemotx.com, sign up. I'm going to be posting photos and stuff. that's the only place that I can really do it apart from Instagram. So look out for my newsletter. I think that's about it. And we want to play something actually before we get to James Lindsay from one of our friends and sponsors.

We'll play that right now. And then hold on to your hats for my conversation with James Lindsay. Chris DeGal, who is with the Herzogh, Foundation, and who's one of our colleagues, in the Salem Salem Radio Network is on today to talk to us about Herzog

and other things. Welcome back. Hey, Eric, it's great to see you again. I saw you in a very, very cold, frigid, uncomfortably bitter cold

Washington, D.C. a couple of weeks ago for inauguration week. That was fun, was it? Well, people don't realize because it always sounds glamorous if you're not there.

Like, ooh, it sounds great. It was like, it was just bad. It was like so cold. It was unbearable. I can't, I remember the last time it's been unbearably cold, where you're like, yes, I can't know, can't do it.

And couple that with the security. I don't know how much waiting outside you did, but. Oh, no, no, no, no. That wasn't in any privileged class. I had to wait outside for like two and three hours just to get in places. It was nuts. It was horrifying, horrifying. So if you, if you missed it, you hit it.

It's like to go there. I mean, my wife and I, we were all excited, like, we got tickets to some ball. Yes. And we got there. To the, you know, like you walk in the bitter, bitter cold because the, the Uber can't even take you because security is so tight. There's like Humvees and military stuff and security. And yeah, finally we get near the line. And I just looked at the line, I thought, not a chance that I'm going to stand.

And those poor women, I mean, you know, at least we had tuxes on. Those poor women were in ball gowns and. Listen, I don't hear what you're wearing. nothing was what it was forget it no no anyway may i just say on that that week was so positive that the the the vibe in that town despite all that even people that couldn't get in or see what they were hoping to see didn't you notice that everybody there it was devoid of protesting people seemed happy and a bullion anyway a different vibe there oh it was stunning it was absolutely stunning and listen it's not over it's not over here in the midst of great things are happening it's frankly

hard to believe, but we need to believe it, and we need to do what we can. I mean, let's talk about, I mean, since, you know, we're talking with the Herzog Foundation, school choice, I mean, what's going on? And I want people to know that there's a website, read Lyon, R-E-A-D-L-I-O-N-O-R-G. Yes, we keep you up to date there every day all week long, constant breaking news and updates on news related to culture, to government to, yes, certainly. school choice and so much more. If you really need a site that you trust that you that you want to come to depend on for objective, honest journalism, truth, great opinion, great cultural insights,

read lion.com is one I'd come in to you. You know, we're going to be at the National Religious Broadcasters Association event at the end of the month in Dallas with you, Eric. We're looking forward to that because both the foundation broadly, Herzog Foundation.com. I hope you'll look that up, as well as the lion, our media arm and some of our podcast shows, we're going to be doing shows and introducing ourselves to the convention floor with all of our other media colleagues. So in addition to the show that we'll be doing at Salem, and I know you'll be there too, I'll be there in my capacity with the Herzog Foundation talking about the great work they do and introducing ourselves to other Christian media.

We want people to know that we're a source, not just to teach folks how to homeschool or develop their own Christian school or grow their Christian school, but also, plug into our network of shows, our great friend Sam Sorbo, and the news and media we provide all week long. It's a new day in America. It's exciting. And I always say that, you know, we have to take back every one of the mountains, so to speak. And one of them is education that if we don't, I mean, it's as fundamental as it gets.

If our kids are not learning the basics about what is true, about history, you can't function. And we've basically drifted for, you know, 50 plus years. we've not been teaching this stuff to our kids, especially not in the public schools. And you can't have a functioning free self-governing republic unless kids are learning the basics in school. So this is absolutely vital, absolutely vital. Peggy Noonan was on with Bill Maher over the weekend. I don't know if you happened to catch it on Mars show, but they were discussing that very point that it used to be... You think I watch Mars show?

Yeah, I'm sorry. You can crack, Chris to go on? No, no, I caught a, the only reason I went back to review it was because the clip caught my eye. Brother, I'm teasing. I'm teasing. Please continue. No, I hear you. But he has actually, I tell you, the worm has turned with that guy a little bit. I think it's gotten so crazy. It's actually whipsawed on him a little. But Noonan was making the point, and I thought it was a solid one, that once upon a time, and they were really kind of broadly making the point for school choice, but I don't think they realized it.

you were growing up in an impoverished community or something and you thought, well, this country's so great, I can bring myself out of my circumstances. And Noonan was making the point that kids aren't even taught the greatness of the country. In fact, they're taught that quite literally anything outside of your own neighborhood where it might already kind of stink is even worse, that America is just rotten to its core. And even people like Bill Maher, along with Peggy Noonan, were discussing that we're teaching our kids to grow up, hating this country, hate the flag. And that, I'm sorry, it just largely stems from public education. That's not to castigate everyone in public education, but we know that's where it comes from. And something's got to change there. You said it so well. If we don't teach our kids about it. It comes from Bill Maher and the liberal left and the Hollywood left. So thank you, Bill

Marr, because you're a big part of the problem. And frankly, Peggy Noon, and she used to be a friend, but she was very anti-Trump. A lot of these people have unwittingly participating. in destroying the country. Because attacking Trump, you know, that's the classic virtue signaling among, you know, whatever, certain conservative elite groups. But Trump was always pro-America. And we're at a day now where I think even Peggy Noonan and even, God forbid, Bill Maher, are understanding, oh, yeah, this is common sense. And this is to me what's amazing is that so many people are coming around. So many people, they're not coming around on everything, but they're coming around in a lot.

And I think people like Bill Maher, nobody was more anti-Trump than he was. But common sense is common sense. And I think some people still have some common sense. I mean, the people leading the Democratic Party don't have common sense. They're still in a, I don't know, in a fevered dream. I don't know what world they live in. Chris de Gaulle, we're out of time. God bless you. God bless you for your show. Look forward to seeing you in the weeks ahead in person. And folks, don't forget, Hertzog Foundation.com. Hurtsockfoundation.com. There's been a national focus on eating only the healthiest of foods, and that's great news for balance of nature. Their method of producing a vibrant nutritional supplement is second to none. While so many others use chemicals and additives, balance of nature is made solely from whole food ingredients. other methods sacrifice nutritional quality for the sake of profits and volume.

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Use discount code Eric or order online at balanceof-nature.com. Use discount code Eric to get 35% off plus free shipping. That's balance of nature.com. Mike Lindell and the MyPillow team want to say a big thank you for your continued support. This spring, they had a huge allotment of their famous bed sheets set aside for the big box stores. But guess what? The stores didn't come through again. So Mike's doing what he does best, passing the savings on to you.

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I usually bring you the best of the best. And today, actually, it's not an exception. I'm talking to my friend James Lindsay, who's been on the program before. First of all, James Lindsay, welcome back. Thank you, Eric. And if anybody wants a primer on who you are, they can watch the Socrates in the studio conversation that I did with you at the ARC conference in London. That's what's that two months ago? Something like two months ago now.

But that, well, you've been on the program before, but that to me was sort of a summation. of kind of who you are and what you think about and what you do. You, how do we describe you, James Lindsay? I always ask people, like, you know, you're an author. Okay, most people come on the show are an author, so that tells us nothing. You're professional troublemaker, that's a good way of putting it. You have talked a lot about cultural Marxism in the academy. You have yourself been in the academy.

So you talk a lot about cultural Marxism, and you've, helped everyone to understand what wokeism is, how DEI intersectionality, cultural Marxism, add up to this world in which we talk about the woke left. Recently, you have been talking, you spoke to me privately about it, and then you've been speaking publicly about it quite a bit, but I want you to talk about it today, about something you call the woke right, which most people, if they're not really paying attention, which is most of us, that to me included, just think, wait, what? What do you mean? It's like the, it's like the communist fascists. I'm confused. And so you have also gotten into some controversy

recently, which I'd love you to talk about, with some folks that I think of as allies in the larger cause for the country and the culture about this concept of the woke right. So I wanted you today to help us understand what you mean by it and also help us understand maybe out of the gate, who has attacked you for talking about some of this stuff, like people that we would know. Gosh, I think almost everybody has attacked me at this point. Not quite everybody. Some people have not, I guess, but let's see. We could do an awful long list. The thing is, a lot of the people who are prominent within this set of factions, I think, is the best way to put it, because it's not one belief, right? A lot of people get woke wrong. They think it's a set of beliefs. A lot of people

do this with science. They think that science is a set of conclusions. Science tells us there's a great red spot on Jupiter, but it's not a set of conclusions or a set of beliefs. It is a way of thinking and approaching ideas. And so a lot of the people and the different factions of what I've been labeling woke right don't necessarily agree with one another on everything. Not a lot of them are well known. But for example, I think one of my primary antagonists is a character that operates at the Blaze, which was formerly owned and controlled by Glenn Beck, but no longer since he retired. And that character's name is Aaron McIntyre. I think he is a very clear articulation of what I'm talking about. So, okay, now let me let me just say this is why

I find this fascinating, because Orrin McIntyre has been on this program, many, times over the last three years, I think. And he has never said anything that has, that I haven't agreed with. He's been a great advocate of stuff that I believe in. So on the positions, he seems to be correct. So what you're talking about, I believe, is, because you just said it about with science, right? In other words, it's about a way of seeing. It's not about what you see. So we've been fooled because most of the woke left kind of lines up with certain things. And then those of us who are conservative would line up in a different area. But you're saying that there are people who may line up with us in many things,

but something about their approach partakes of the same thing that you've seen in the woke left. So what is it about? So let's talk about that. In other words, what is it? When you talk to the right, what does that mean? What are these principles of what you're calling wokeism that you've seen on both sides? What are the principles? Yeah, let's start with the left because people are going to be able to understand it more clearly.

So the left says a lot of things, and I mean leftists, I mean Marxists. They say a lot of things that generally speaking, liberals or even depending Christians will recognize as true. There's a lot of inequality in society, for example. This is often a true statement. In fact, it's just a true statement. Some people have a lot of concern about that, right? So they might say, look, whatever proportion of people in this particular field of work that's prestigious are white and this other smaller proportion are black. And if we look at that compared to, you know, the total populations, we don't have parity.

There are proportionally more white people than black people working in, say, high-tech fields or in government or whatever it happens to be something prestigious. So a lot of people will see those facts. They will say those are true facts. That is an accurate statistical representation of what's happening. And then they'll say, well, don't you think that maybe means there's discrimination there? And then you have this kind of reasonable debate. Well, is it caused by discrimination or not? Well, the leftist or the woke view is that discrimination is hidden and intrinsic and systemic so that you may not be able to find a single person who actually discriminates, who actually holds racial animus, who actually prefers not to hire black people over

white people. You can't find a single person, but it must be hidden somewhere. Maybe it's the way we use language. Maybe it's the way we teach our kids. Therefore, we have to seize control of the entire system and how it approaches. We need our education to be more culturally responsive so that can reach the black people differently because it's intrinsically racist. This is what I mean by a way of seeing that the racism must be hidden somewhere within the system and it has oppressed a group of people even though you can't necessarily find a single person doing the oppression. So the Marxist can come along and say a lot of true things about society. They can say a lot of things that morally resonate with not Marxist liberals. And they can get those people to carry water for

this radical vision that society was built on racism that hides its racism very well, but that the racism is the fundamental organizational principle of the society. That's critical race theory, which we all recognize is a woke theory on the left. Okay, and let me let me say, just interrupt to clarify or annotate. So the idea is that the people on the woke left will say everybody and everything is racist and there's an inequality because of it. And then we will say, well, look, I know I'm not a racist. And I don't know anyone who is a racist.

And if I did, I would condemn them and ostracize them because that's despicable. And they would say, it doesn't matter. Racism is everywhere. And you go, where, where? And they don't, it just is. And they're basically saying, kind of like Groucho Marx, who are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes? In other words, your own eyes tell you there's no such thing.

They're telling you ignore what you see. and feel it, just take our word for it. We're right. There's racism everywhere. And they kind of just bully people into accepting this and into going along with their plans. They say, just trust us. We're going to burn everything down and it's going to be better. And we don't believe them.

We know that they're wrong. But so that makes sense on the left. So keep going. So there's a name for that, which is called, in this case, with race, it's racial consciousness or a critical race consciousness, if we put it in the terms of critical race theory. And what they would say, when you say, where is the racism? I know I'm not racist. As they say, Eric Mataxis, you're complicit in the system because you refuse to recognize it. So they have a true consciousness in their view of how racism works, and you have a false consciousness.

So what I'm arguing is a very simple proposition that woke means having a critical consciousness that you understand that there is a system of power designed to oppress a particular group to the benefit of a different group, and the group that benefits willfully cannot see it and is therefore complicit in the continuance of that oppression. And ladies and gentlemen, if this sounds demonically confusing, that's because it is. That's right. But, okay, so keep going. We've just got 60 seconds.

Can you say quickly how the right partakes of this as well? well. Exactly the same way. They construe that there is a system of power that's built up. Maybe it's by Jews. Maybe it's by the post-war liberal consensus. Maybe it's by liberal society at large to exclude true conservatism from the halls of political power. So they can say very true things. But the motivation that they have coming is that they have a true consciousness of what's really going on. They say, we know what time it is. No one else does. They have a true consciousness. And everybody else who's going along with the liberal status quo, unfortunately, has a false consciousness and therefore has no capacity to understand the problem, thus no capacity to stand in positions

of communication or power. Okay. So I'm trying to pull out like the principles of what you just said. Part of it is this kind of like we are the, we're the Gnostic initiated people that we know actually what's going on. And nobody else sees what we see. and there's this hidden system and what, yeah, typically it's like it's the Jews or something. When we come back, folks, we will explore this further.

This is unfortunately extremely important. Stay tuned. Welcome back talking to James Lindsay. Okay, James, you coined the term woke right and we're trying to, I'm trying to tease out what this is so everyone can really understand what you're talking about it. Because it's been unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know. know, controversial. So when you talk about people on the right, conservatives who partake of these elements of wokeery, let's get, again, get specific. Let's go back. You just said, they say, kind of like the leftists, the woke leftists, they say, oh, there's this hidden system

of people running everything. So the leftist would say it's white men in power, oppressing. everyone besides themselves. And then if you say, well, I don't know any white men who would ever want to do that. In fact, I'm a white man. And I despise that. What are you talking about? They go, well, you're just part of it. You don't understand. You don't see. Okay. So the conservative people who you say partake of these woke principles, they are similarly saying that there's kind of a hidden group oppressing the rest of us or the rest of the world. So who has said that? And how have they said that? Well, there's a variety of ways. But first, let me distinguish. They don't identify as conservative. They identify as right wing. And they are being very clear on social media

recently that they are, and I quote, in all caps, we are not conservative. They are very clear that they are right wing, that they see conservatism as a perennially losing proposition. And so being radically right wing is actually a necessary corrective. The argument that they tend to make, whether it's the Jews or this thing called the post-war liberal consensus, is that the entire sociopolitical order has been arranged so that radical right-winger's, which can include fascists, which can include Nazis, which can include racialists, as the word used to be, racist is the word today, which can include just very hard line. I don't think conservatives are the right word. right-wingers and authoritarians, that these people have been systematically excluded by literally

what they refer to as liberals and neocons, who they see as two sides of the same coin. There's this false politics. Now, hang on a second. So, because again, I want clarity here. It sounds like these are people who are basically fascists. In other words, that tribal identity is good. I'm white. I'm German.

Jews, bad, German, Aryan, white, good. It's a tribal identity. So that's part of what you're talking about here. Intrinsically collectivist, intrinsically identity-based, yes. Okay. So this is why, you know, if you put Hitler versus Stalin, they are both, in my mind, evil, like really evil. They pretend to be on opposite size of things, but they're both evil. They're both totalitarian status who don't believe in God, who don't believe in the sanctity of the individual, I don't believe in freedom.

But they appear to be opposites. In fact, mostly they are exactly the same. One theoretically is far right. The other theoretically is far left. It's irrelevant. They are the enemies of truth and liberty, the sanctity of life and whatever it is. So that is a little bit helpful. But when you talk about this.

Hold on. real quick for clarity. The Stalin or the Marxists characterize their project as seeing oppression as systematically organizing the world and they are falsely claiming that they'll get rid of it when in reality they're just going to take it over. The fascists are responding by saying that that hierarchical order of oppression is what kept society stable and we've been robbed of it. So that's the only difference between them. The Marxists say we're going to get rid of hierarchical oppression and the fascists say hierarchical oppression is what made it work, we need to go back to it. But they're both totalitarian, they're both evil, and they're both using this demonic critical consciousness logic.

Okay. Now, I'm going to challenge you again to give me names. Don't bring up Warren McIntyre because he's not a household name. Who else has partaken of this? Well, Tucker Carlson, he's a household name. He's partaken of this. Candace Owens has taken of this. She is a household name within conservative circles at least. East. They are both in that camp rather firmly. It's hard to stay within household names because it's hard to know who's a household name at this point. But I mean, when you bring up, when you bring up Tucker Carlson, or actually before we get to him or to Ken of someone, who has been attacking you? Give us some other names because I'd just love to get some sense

of what we're talking about. Well, these are not famous people in the, in the, the big picture, but largely the people who've been attacking me are either very prominent influencers primarily on social media, many of whom are just kind of anonymous with weird, fake names, like it's home aff. That would be one account that goes after me rather a lot. He's a Ken Wilbur integralist, which is not a Catholic integralist. It is a hermetic wizardry thing. And it's a total cult. But I mean, most people like me would just say, dismiss this as fringe and why are you even reacting to it? Why do you care what these lunatics say on the internet? Because they control elite MAGA. They control elite MAGA. But keep keep giving me names.

I mean, you said Tucker and Candace are huge names. Who else? Well, within the Christian Nationalist circle, I get kind of this relentless attack, although I've blocked most of them. So it's less from the two non-related wolves, Stephen Wolfe, who wrote the book, The Case for Christian Nationalists. And William Wolfe, who is kind of a political operative, who is the executive director of the Center for Baptist Leadership, which is connected to the American Reformer, which is the magazine that I hoaxed with the Communist Manifesto. The operators behind both the American reformer and its sister organization new founding, which would include Nate Fisher and Joshua Abatoe, go after me quite a lot. The kind of hog on a week. Hang on. Hang on. We got plenty more coming up. Hang on. We got folks, got to remind you again, begging me. you, begging you to go to Metaxistock.com, click on the CSI banner at the top of the page.

We need your help desperately. Metaxistock.com today, please thank you. Welcome back talking to James Lindsay about this idea of the woke right and trying to clarify this, so we know what we're talking about. So the only names that you've given that anybody knows, really, are Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, but they have not attacked you. Let's put Candace out of the picture. But Tucker Carlson, he has had some provocative people on, but I don't see him as a chest-thumping white Christian nationalist. No, I don't think he is. I mean, he plays a neat game. He did lure Matt Walsh into saying that he was a Christian nationalist on his show and kind of had his little grin. But he did. He's invited several of these chest-thumping Christian

nationalists on his show. Andrew Isker, for example, who goes by Boniface Option, who's articulated a very radical vision for a pro-Christian kind of theocracy who's running something like a commune in western Tennessee right now. So Andrew Isker was on his show recently. Andrew Isker left Tucker Carlson's show. I'm not positive whether or not they even changed clothes. They sat down together with another fellow named C.J. Engel, who is another one of these Christian nationalists. And they talked about how Christians need to embrace lying and Machiavelli in the name of obtaining power. This is on tape. They said this. So that was fresh off of his appearance from Tucker Carlson. He talked. about the need for Christians to embrace lying in Machiavellianism in order to obtain power for this Christian nationalist vision.

Okay. He's platformed, had a very softball interview three years ago with a wealthy man named Charles Haywood, who is pretty close to outright a fascist. He's openly a Francoist. And he gave this incredibly weird interview. This is Tucker I'm talking about with Charles, where he went through his manifesto and would ask him interesting questions about it without ever touching the truly radical freaky parts, which he must have. have read because he talked about, say, the paragraph before the freaky part, but he didn't get into the part where men and women will be required by law, for example, to have very strict sex roles and can be heavily punished for not adopting them. He didn't talk about how he said there'll be a Christian nation, but Charles Haywood doesn't care if anybody's actually Christian, as long as they pretend and are forced to pretend by the state, which doesn't sound very Christian

to me. He talked about his reviews of the Spanish Civil War without ever mentioning, by the way, you support Franco. And so, yeah, Tucker Carlson's been pushing these fellows. for a while. Yeah. Well, see, now, what this confirms to me, I would argue, and again, you know, folks, you have to be careful. The devil is cunning, crafty. So what does he do? Twist's words. Christian nationalism. There are days or ways in which I could completely agree with that, and there are more ways in which I could say it is of the devil. It is a term created by the devil. And this is what happens, right? These terms get thrown out there.

No one really knows what it means. So I hear well-meaning people say, well, I'm a Christian nationalist. Otherwise, what would I be? An atheist globalist? It's like, no, no, no. You see you've been played because it's kind of like the Christ is king controversy. Like the question is what do you mean by that? If I say Christ is king, praise the Lord, that's different than saying, Christ is king,

parentheses U-S-O-B understood. Clearly, the spirit behind it, what's actually meant behind it, is what matters. And so that's kind of at the heart of what we're talking about here, because there are people that they sound like they're on our side. But if you push a little bit or you probe a little bit, you find out what James is saying,

that they are, in fact, representing the devil on the other side. They're just wearing different clothing. And so, I mean, this is very important to me, James, because, you know, I mean, I've written about this stuff. I wrote a book called If You Can Keep It About America. And what is at the heart of America, it seems to me, is that this is God's idea of liberty, of religious liberty. What we're talking about, whether on the woke left or on the woke right that you're talking about, is a kind of tribalist, triumphalist. attitude completely at odds with the spirit of liberty, which I believe is biblical, which I believe

is God's idea. And so there are people on the right who, I mean, actually Hitler was just like this, right? Like, what did Hitler do in the beginning? Before he talks about murdering the Jews, he's talking about degenerate art. He's talking about we should be proud to be Germans. I mean, most decent Germans would have agreed and said, yes, we have moral rot, we have this, we have that. So you agree and agree and agree, not knowing that you're riding on the back of a tiger, that you have allied yourself with something evil. So this tribalism that you're talking about, that's kind of like, I'm proud to be white. And forgive me for talking so much, but I just want to clarify, because this is so fascinating to me. It's kind of like somebody saying, you know, black people are better than white people.

And you say, I'm offended by that. I'm proud to be white. In fact, I'm going to form a group that says, proud to be white. Now you've kind of edged into this tribalist white thing, which is of the devil. And there are plenty of people on the right that have been duped into this. And that's kind of part of what you're talking about, it seems to me. It's actually the goal of the left is to get people on the right to do one of two things. They want everybody to adopt a racial consciousness. They want some white people to adopt a self-guilty one, and they want other white people to adopt a self-proud one so that they can have the racial conflict. Because Marx laid out very clearly on the first page of the Communist Manifesto that the entire point is that all of history moves through the conflict of contending classes. And it ends in one of two ways, either by a revolutionary reconstitution of society or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

So they want the fight. So they need right-wingers to pick up, I'm white and I'm proud of it. and you're black and you're proud of it. And now we both hate each other over race. They need the conflict. Okay. And this is brilliant. No, no, no.

This is, this is where we've really gotten somewhere here. So, folks, do you hear this, right? In other words, the idea is that if all of the lunacy around BLM and critical race theory can drive you to sort of hate blacks a little bit and to say, I'm really proud to be white, you have now bought into the demonic lie. You seem like you're on the opposite side of it, but actually you're partaking of it because God wants us to love everyone, not to see through the lens of race. Woke people want you to see through the lens of race.

James has just said, some of them want you if you're white to be loaded with white guilt for being white. But the devil is just as happy. If you're incredibly proud of being white and you identify as super white and you kind of think that's a good thing, it is an evil thing, we'll be right back talking to James Lindsay. I'm going to remind you, we need you to go to metaxis talk.com. You, if you're listening, you need you to go to metaxisotocetocon.com, click on the banner. By the grace of God, we are freeing slaves.

The banners at the top of the page, metaxis talk.com. It's a great cause. I can't think of a greater one. Please be a part of this solution. Metaxistalk.com at the top of the page. I don't blame him because he's running head, but the meanest thing that he ever did was before he left. He went and maimed me.

We used to laugh. I used to cry. Used to bow our heads. Welcome back. We're talking to James Lindsay. James, this is so important, everything you're saying. So you're saying that there are people like, Tucker Carlson, who have, now, what's interesting is Tucker kind of plays with this, or he platforms

people, so to speak, who are kind of guilty of this. I would not see Tucker Carlson himself. I love Tucker. I know Tucker. He is not, you know, a white nationalist, you know, ultra-maga, screw the libs, kind of thing. He is a good guy. He's for common sense. But by platforming some of these people, I guess he's given them credibility. Is that the idea? Well, another woke Hallmark is the preference for marginalized or outsider knowledge in place of established knowledge. So again, we touch the truth. We all know that for the last five years, we just got lied to by all of our institutions, probably a lot longer than five years, actually probably most of the last 50 years.

We all are starting to wake up and realize that we have been lied to. We got lied to about COVID. We got lied to about Trump. We got lied to and lied to and lied to. You name it. We got lied to about it. They created derangement syndromes. They've driven people crazy with these psychological operations.

like Trump's arrangement and COVID. We know this is the case. So our institutions are in rot. We know I've hoaxed the academy seven years ago, as we've talked about in the past, and showed that our universities are in disrepair and in rot. So how are we supposed to trust the institutions, right? Well, the idea is that the woke belief is that the center of knowledge, generation, and communication is intrinsically corrupt for the regime,

for this husk of a of a illegitimate regime that's maintaining itself for the benefit of the people who are ensconced within it, and that the people that are pushed out to the margins, the marginalized other ways of knowing, are actually more legitimate and have to be brought into the center while that which is in the center now has to be displaced. This is why I say Tucker Carlson engages in wokery, and the reason is because his just asking questions, they're not letting us talk about this while he talks. talks about it on a gigantic show. Nobody's allowed to say what's going on with this or that. And it's not just Israel. It's a lot of things. The mentality that the marginalized outsider other ways of knowing are intrinsically superior to the established knowledge because the established knowledge must be corrupt in suppressing the truth. Okay. Okay. This is what I want to say. So I want to get to. So ladies and gentlemen, if I can translate, because I want everyone to get this.

because I've experienced this, right? Most of that is true, or enough of that is true. Here's the problem, folks. Do you understand? The devil doesn't get you to swallow a big lie. So he'll give you a lot of truth, and then he'll mix in the poison pill lie. For example, all of our corruptions have been, all of our institutions have been corrupt. Pretty true.

We've been lied to. And on and on and on. Who do I trust? Who killed the Kennedys? who killed another, so suddenly you wake up to that you've been lied to, that the mainstream media has lied, and on and on, all of which is true. But then you take it one step further, one fatal step further, and say, we never went to the moon. The earth is flat.

The Jews are behind all of this. Hillary Clinton is a lizard person. Hillary Clinton was killed at Gitmo. there are two Joe Bidens. There are two Joe Bidens. There's a body double. All this stuff is out there. And we've just got seconds left, James.

But is that anything there that I'm getting wrong? Yeah, you've got the right idea. The thing that they actually push for there instead is that there is a sociopolitical order that excludes fascists from the center of power at the end of the day. And it is biblical what you just said. Satan tempts Jesus in the desert in Matthew 4 and says all this can be yours. And of course, Jesus replies, my kingdom's not of this world, but Jesus also already knows it's already all his. So the truth is, this can all be yours. That's true. But Jesus knows that it's actually a lie because he's Jesus and rejects Satan.

Okay, okay. We're going to get back to this when we come back, folks. This is important stuff. Don't go away.