The Eric Metaxas Show - James Ward

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

James Ward, pastor of Insight Church and author of "Zero Victim," looks at Rev. King's "dream" and how a true "vision" can lift this country out of victimhood.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. It's a nutritious smoothie of creamy, fresh yogurt, vanilla, vanilla, vanilla, vanilla, and a mushy banana. For your mind? Drink it all down. It's nummy. I wub, vanilla. I wub, I wub, vanilla. Here comes Eric Metaxus. Hey folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxe show. I just happen to be Eric Mataxis.

It's a coincidence, but it is the Erkman Taxis show, so it's not inappropriate that I would host it. Let me just say that on this program, I usually get to interview interesting people. Today is one of those days. I'm sitting here with someone that I only met recently in Orlando, Florida. James Ward is a pastor, author, entrepreneur. The author of a book that I'm holding here called Zero Victim, Overcoming Injustice with a New Attitude. James Ward, welcome. Thanks for having me, Eric.

So good to be with you. It was great to meet you. I met you in Orlando at the NRB, and I just meet so many people at the NRB that it's dizzying. But every now and again, you meet somebody and you go, we have to connect. We really have to connect. So I'm glad that you happen to be in New York so we could actually connect in the studio, which is the best of all. but your story is compelling. You write about it in the book, Zero Victim, Overcoming Injustice with a New Attitude.

So I want to talk about your story. Tell my audience, you know, how did you get here? Where did you start? Sure. You know, I grew up in the South, Eric. I remember distinctly the tail end of the school system being segregated. I remember in third grade in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, which is my home. hometown. The first day of third grade, them busing some of us black kids across town to the

white side of town. And I don't remember seeing a white student or being in class with a white student before that. And so I thought that was going to be problematic, you know? In the South during that time, you just kind of grew up with this inherent knowing. These things, of course, are learned and your condition from the culture around you. But grew up kind of knowing that black people and white people weren't really supposed to interact. And so I thought that this first day of going to this white school was going to be problematic. And crossing the Black Warrior River to the white side of town, I noticed that there was a landscape change and the homes were nicer, the yards were well manicured. And I said, I belong on this side

of town. So something was already stirring within me. So I get to class and thinking it was going to be a problem. I had a great teacher in third grade. She was a black lady. She would put her names on the board for doing well in class, not for punitive reasons, but but she would celebrate good behavior. Anytime you got a good grade on a spelling test, she would put your name on the board. And I started to notice, Eric, that my name was on the board quite often. And something clicked within me.

And I know it was the providence of God. I recognized that the white students weren't against me, that they were not holding me back from being successful. And the seed was planted in third grade, that I stopped believing in black, in white supremacy, because I stopped believing in black inferiority. And that was a pivotal moment in terms of... In third grade.

That's an amazing thing in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. That's what you said. That's correct. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's interesting when you have that kind of just an experience that people can't take it away from you because you lived it. You got it.

But I guess that started you on a journey. It sure sounds like it. So, well, then what happened after that? So that changed the trajectory of my life. And from that moment, I began to live life from the inside out and not from the outside end. And I think we can talk quite a bit in terms of that's really God's design for humanity to live life from the inside out, not from the life outside in.

And I think that this idea of zero victim thinking, couple that with faith, it's the mind of Jesus Christ himself. And I've discovered that two things are most form. in my life and I think any person's life, faith in Jesus Christ and a zero victim mindset, which is really the mind of Christ, but also the mind that God intends for us to have. And if I could frame the zero victim mindset in terms of faith, which is so very much in a line and so much synergy with your message, your letter to the church and the things you've been saying, the idea of a zero victim mindset. Think about this, Eric. The only innocent man that ever lived

suffered the greatest injustice that the world has ever known. During this time, there are so many cries for justice and righteousness in those kinds of things. The only innocent man that ever lived suffer the greatest injustice that the world has ever known. And while in the process, still in the act of being victimized, he's already praying for forgiveness and releasing the power of love over the victimization that's taking place. So get this, he's actively dying for the men who are killing him while they are still in the process. And that's the power of love. It's the power of forgiveness that I believe the church overall and not being critical. I think we've deviated from the power of love that overcomes a multitude of sins, the power of forgiveness. And that is the zero victim mindset. Jesus was not a victim. And the word of God tells us that every Christian we're called Romans 829 to be conformed to the image of Christ, that he might be the first born among many brethren. I think this is the mind of Christ. I think this is the mind of Christ. Christ apply to the issues of our day that the church has a responsibility of communicating this

message to society when victimization now is being weaponized, politicized, it's the soil from which CRT, all of the divisive ideologies today is growing from victim soil. And I think this is a message that the church has to deliver in terms of the mind of Christ and the gospel apply to the social political issues of our day. They're celebrating victimhood. It's a badge of honor who's the most victimized. And the fact of the matter is, you know, to cut to the chase, it's Antichrist. In other words, this is not neutral. There's something in it.

And the reason that it's so demonic is because it appeals to something in every one of us. In other words, it's very tempting for us to say, yes, I'm a victim. I've been hurt. Boom, boom, boom. And it might be true. You have been hurt. But to receive that and then to let it feel. need one's anger and resentment.

Now, people wouldn't know this, but I experienced this myself. I grew up in a working class home. My parents are European immigrants. When I got to Yale University, there was the first time I was exposed to this ideology, which was in the 80s. But the ideology is the man, whoever it is, right? In other words, it's never you. It's some guy with money and power.

They were pressing you, and you need to hate them. because you're the victim and you're the whatever. And think of the irony. Here you are at Yale University, but you're being fed this idea that they want to keep you down, right? And they are, you know, whatever would be, the white establishment since I was white, I guess it would be the WASP establishment, you know,

George Bush, Ronald Reagan, whatever it is. The point is that there was this ideology there then, which was being fed to me, and I was drinking this in. And I remember it vividly because I remember that feeling of like it feels so good, I'm morally superior that I can hate those people that are keeping me down. So I remember viscerally what that felt like. And I think to myself, my goodness, how difficult it would be for somebody growing up in poverty as a black person in America, how difficult it would be to escape thinking,

that. And but you, obviously, you didn't just escape that thinking, but, but you are now helping people get past that. I want to remind people, the book is called Zero Victim. I'm talking to James Ward. So when did Faith come into it for you? Because you said you had this experience in third grade like, hey, I'm doing pretty well here. And what, was Faith part of your, your journey all the way through or was that later? How did that work? Yeah, faith was a part of my journey. I grew up in the, in the church and gave my life to the Lord when I was 12 years old. And it was, it was really a connection that was made. You know, the Romans 12, too, you know, being transformed by the renewing of your mind. And I find it interesting that, you know, heaven touches earth, I like to say, at the point of the

human mind, you know, that's the conduit through which the purposes of God on earth as it is in heaven. It has to flow through a mindset that is elastic and able to stretch to accommodate the greatness of God, you know, stretching even beyond faith and understanding into the realm of the divine power of God. And so I was able to make that connection in terms of this mind being in you that was also in Christ Jesus, I believe. Philippians 313, forgetting those things that are behind. The Bible has a lot to say about how we think in terms of us living out and fleshing out our Christianity. Okay, now that... I feel like a connection was made for that. We've got a lot to unpack. I'm just thrilled to be sitting here with James Ward, the author of Zero Victim. We'll be right back.

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Advisory services are offered through Inspire Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the SEC. Welcome back. I'm talking to James Ward, who's the author of a book Zero Victim. Overcoming Injustice with a new attitude. James, you're the pastor and founder of Insight Church in the North Chicago suburb of Skokie. So you started out in Alabama. Yep. And now you are in. How long have you been in Chicago?

I came to Chicago in 1993. Actually, graduated in 1993. Went to college at DePaul. So I did my undergrad in DePaul University. Did you know you wanted to be a minister of the gospel? Where were you, what was your track? Where were you headed? Yeah, absolutely not. I was involved in the music industry. I actually got recruited by DePaul University for music, and that's how I ended up in Chicago.

What music? Yeah, played jazz music, was a jazz drummer, and ended up doing well. I wanted to be the next Quincy Jones of Bob Foster, and believe it or not, in a nightclub in Boston. The Lord spoke to me, and I recommitted my life to the Lord. I lived in a period when I wanted Jesus to be Savior, but not Lord. of my life. And the Lord speaks to me in a nightclub in Boston. It says, I want your life. I knew the Lord was speaking to me. When I came back to Chicago, I said, well, now I need someone to teach me and disciple me. And it was during that time that I was scanning television channels and met a pastor,

saw a pastor that was teaching the word of God. And I said, this man can teach me how to be a man of God, and how to be a Christian, ended up finding his church and didn't know that I would end up marrying his daughter. Wow. Become a father-in-law, Pastor Carlton Arctus. Does your wife know this story? My wife knows. She's sitting right over here. Are you serious? I think she prayed me out of that night club.

I was going to say that is really. At all night prayer while I'm drinking and so wow. And so here we are and the Lord called me to ministry during that time. Had no idea that I would be called a ministry. So now we pastor a church for two campuses. One in Skokie, one in the south suburbs of Tendley Park, Insight Church. Great church, multi-ethnic, multi-generational church. It's always fantastic to hear good news coming out of Chicago because Chicago is one of those cities.

I've got a very dear friend Bob Mazzikowski who runs a Christian school in the inner city. And, you know, you hear all the bad news, just like people who, when I tell them, I live in New York, they're like, oh, New York, because they're only hearing the bad news. We need to hear the good stories. And the fact that you are pastoring these two churches in Chicago. I'm already excited about what God is doing. Yeah, yeah. No, thanks so much. I was walking with our children the other day.

They came up to New York to be with us for a few days. Walking through the area and reminding him, Eric, Jesus is Lord of all. You know, Satan is temporarily in control. 1. John 519 and so says that the world lies under the sway temporarily of the evil one. But Jesus is in control. And this is the time for Christians to be bold, to be engaged, to be emboldened by the truth of God's world.

and to really be light, you know, in a culture of darkness. And I think this mindset, this new way of thinking, overcoming injustice, knowing that God's grace is sufficient for whatever is happening today, that we're sent about grace abounds much more. I think we're the right people at the right time, provisioned by God's grace to do exactly what needs to be done if we're willing to obey the Lord and to step out with courage, you know, to advance this kingdom.

And of course, it's important to say what we said earlier that, you know, critical race theory and this victim ideology is not just wrong. It's antithetical to the scripture. It is antichrist and it is harming people. Now, let's be clear. The reason I speak against it and I have guests who speak against it is because it is actually harming people. If you care about communities of color, you care about people struggling, You need to know this is not just not helping them, but this is a path to destruction. And I know that that's part of what you talk about in your book, Zero Victim.

Yeah, it's not only harmful and destructive, it should be a problem for every Christ's follower because it undermines the work of atonement. That ideology says that the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient for redemption, for all sinners and for all mankind. It contradicts the New Testament term. You hear so much today about xenophobia. Well, the Greek New Testament term is philo xenia. It's love for the stranger. It's not fear of the stranger. It's Christian hospitality. And so that idea of CRT, it's non-redemptive. It undermines the work of the atonement. And it undermines the Christian doctrine and ideology of hospitality. If Jesus commands us to love our enemies, you cannot reconcile that truth and obedience to that truth.

obedience to that truth and hold this idea of critical race theory and not understand the power of the blood of Jesus Christ to redeem all humanity. It is, yeah, one of the ways that I see critical race theory in all cultural Marxism, it is fatalistic. And that's the voice of the devil. The voice of the devil says, you will never, you can never overcome these things. If you're white, you're guilty. If you're black, you're oppressed. In other words, these are stated like facts, immutable facts. wipe, totally wiping out the possibilities of God redeeming and changing.

And that fatalism really is the voice of the devil, is to say to somebody, you will never change. And I even talk about it as, as applies to the United States of America. It's like saying, like, you're a cursed country. You're cursed from the beginning. You're cursed from 1619. That's the lie, the 1619 project.

And you can never change. And that's like telling a child, you can never change. You're just like your horrible mother. you're just like your horrible father, that's who you are. It is a curse. You're cursing someone as opposed to loving them and freeing them and blessing them. Yeah, yeah. The transformative power of the love of God, a heart that is tempered and defined and fortified

by the love of God and a mind that is tempered with a zero victim mentality. I tell our church this all the time. Whoever the grand dragon or the grand wizard of the KKK, the highest guy, I love him, Eric. I don't know who he is, regardless of what he does, I love him. I don't condone his behavior, but I love him because the love of Christ in me, there's something in me that's greater toward him than his hatred and his misunderstanding and his attempt to label or to define me. That's the power of Christ.

That's the power of the gospel. And what we're dealing with today is ideological warfare. It's a new civil war of truth versus darkness, not new, but righteousness versus unrighteousness. this is not a skin problem. It's a sin problem. It's a heart problem. It's a Matthew Mark chapter 7 problem. When Jesus

says that evil and murder and all these things perceived from the human heart, go back to the days of Cain and Abel. When Cain killed his own brother, Abel, there was no race there. You're talking about evil, sin crouching at his door to cause him to destroy someone

born from his own mother's womb. So of course you're going to have problems with the enemy. manipulating people to use race and division and those kinds of things. But it's an internal problem. The challenge with America today is we're not building better people. We talk so much about external stimulus. We talk so much about systematic issues and systemic sins. We're not dealing with the heart and the depravity of spiritual and moral deprivation that's taking place in the human heart. And we have to address these things there. And listen, let's let's

let's be honest and clear. The temptation to blame someone else, that's at the very heart of what it is to be a fallen, broken, sinful human being, that we love the idea that we can find someone else to say it is his fault, it is her fault, it is their fault. And you see this all through history. It doesn't always fall along racial lines,

but it's very convenient, you know, when everyone in Germany can say, it's the Jews. Simple. It's the Jews. It alleviates you from having to look at things honestly. You create a scapegoat, and that's what human beings do over and over and over again. And you see blacks doing it with blacks. What we saw what happened in Rwanda, I mean, as demonic and murderous as anything we've ever seen blacks, murdering blacks, demonizing blacks. So this is the human condition. Just as you said, this is the sin condition. No human being can escape it apart from Jesus. Yeah, it's a term self apotheosis. It's the heightened self. We're living in a time of self-indulgence, selfishness, self-love. I find it very interesting that, of course, you know, a second Timothy chapter 3, for example, Paul says in the last days, perilous times, calipose, or demon-filled times are going to come. One of the most important characteristics of demon-filled times in the last days, men will be lovers of themselves. That's the absolute and antithesis of Jesus telling us to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, you see this expression of, of demonic influence upon

humanity that people are becoming lovers of themselves. And when you become a lover of yourself and you're in this self-apotheosis state, you will live in terms of a life that's victimized. It will always be about what they have done to me. And we're not dealing with the spiritual roots and the spiritual reality of what's happening in our society today. This is not a social, sociopolitical problem or a government problem. It's a heart issue. It's fascinating because since I'm Greek, I know the word apotheosis really means to make a God. So self-apathosis says, I am God. Where do we hear that for the first time? Lucifer. You can be as gods in the Garden of Eden right in the beginning. The demonic lie is

is forget about God. You can be God. And what does God say? God says we are to die to self. That's good. Not to exalt self, to deify the self. So you're quite right. That's exactly what we're dealing with right now.

Folks, we've got plenty more coming up. James Ward, W-A-R-D, Ward. The book is Zero Victim Overcoming Injustice with a new attitude. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal

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or large, with a few clicks, visit legacy pminvestments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool they've added. LegacyPm Investments.com. Check it out. Welcome back. I'm talking to the author of Zero Victim, James Ward. James, we've been living through such a bizarre time the last few years. I mean, you know, the way I see it, blacks in America have just made these amazing strides. We even, I believe, someone needs to check on this. I believe we had a black president, maybe even for two terms. I believe.

I could be getting that wrong. And yet the siren song of victimhood has never been louder. And we are treated to this narrative over and over and over again with really irresponsible, foolish people like LeBron James saying things just like pouring gasoline on fire. And you stand strongly against that, but particularly in a place like Chicago. it seems to me that that would be difficult. Yes, it's a different mindset. It's countercultural. I'm reminded of Jesus' prayer for every believer in John chapter 17.

Of course, we're in the world. And he says, Father, I pray that you don't, I'm not praying for you to take them out of the world, but keep them from the evil one, keep them from the influence of the evil one. You know, and Satan, he attacks the mind for Jesus to turn to his, you know, maybe his top disciple and tell him, get thee behind me, Satan. And he explains,

Peter, you're not mindful of the things of God. So again, going back to the power of zero victim thinking and a transformed mind, it's essential for the gospel to work in our lives. I think about just a different mindset, you know, that I tell folks all the time, I am a Christian, black American man. I'm not defined by the color of my skin. You know, I'm a Christian. I'm a Christ follower.

I tell folks, I'm more Jewish than anything is the seed of Abraham. And I think that allowing the culture to feed us the narrative concerning who we are, this time of ideological warfare, is poisonous to the mind. And Jesus came to teach a countercultural mindset, a countercultural message. I think that the black church, I think we have tremendous potential to help spawn a revival in society today with the love of Christ and the zero victim mindset. Think about the teachings of Jesus. just one example. Matthew Chapter 5, Jesus says that do not resist

your enemy. That's a very important statement. But one of the things he says is this, if they compel you, if your oppressor compels you to go one mile, Jesus says to go two miles. In other words, the first mile, if you're feeling victimized,

there's something great from the power of God by the Spirit of God that the second mile becomes voluntary, whereas the first mile was victimization. And I think that mindset that if we could say, you know what, okay, the first 400 years were pretty tough, there has been some impression, some oppression and some injustice. Okay, we were compelled to go one mile. But you know what? This second 400 years, we're going to voluntarily serve America. Faith, the power to be resilient, to recover,

the power and the faith to stand on God's word and believe God through circumstances, I believe that can kickstart a revival in America. I think there's a tremendous opportunity for us to communicate the redemptive power of the gospel. Now, I know that in 2020, when we saw the BLM riots and just the lunacy across America, people are trying to figure out what to make of it, you somehow managed to get on CNN and to deliver a message of sanity amidst the lunacy. How did that happen? Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. You know, we happen to be the pastors of Julia Jackson.

And Julia Jackson is the mother of Jacob Blake, the young man who was shot in Kenosha Wisconsin on August 23rd of 2020. There was a second shooting, remember, after George Floyd and Kenosha was burning, the streets on fire on fire. Julia has been on our NSS prayer team for many years, and her mother has been a part of our church and the church of Sharon's father. So when Jacob was shot on that Sunday Sunday. evening, the first phone call that she made was to Sharon and I as her pastor's to pray. And we pray

that Jacob would live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. And that brought us into being involved with the press conference. Julia asked us to be involved. I want to say that today, Jacob is serving the Lord. He's a great father to his children. You know what? Coming to this building, there's a mural outside that says Black Lives Matter has all these names listed. And I noticed that Jacob's name is not listed. One of the things I can say Jacob is a man of faith. He believes God's word. He's not a victim. I don't think they had any use for his narrative, but it's the power of, again, the gospel and faith in Jesus Christ. And that landed us, again, on the press conference to share this message of zero victim thinking, which I just recently

updated. Something I believe is a message for America. And a few days later, get a call from the White House from, you know, President Trump saying, I need your help. And that really kind of opened the door beginning to kind of set a stage for this message to really begin to reverberate around the nation that I think it's for America right now. It calls people out of the polarization, out of the tribalism back to the 50-yard line to have some civil discourse and to get back to some common sense thinking to what I believe is the moral majority that's still out there. I mean, listen, I think people are very hungry for that because they just say this is this is fatiguing, this is depressing, what is happening. We need common sense.

sense. We need truth. We need hope. Now, so if somebody lives in the Chicago area, how do they connect with you at your church? Yep. Just insightchurch.org is our website. We're in the towns again of Skokie and also Tenley Park is our main campus. Insightchurch.org is the way to get connected to us. Insight church. And can people watch you online as well? Yep, we're online. We can go to zerovictum.com as well to pick up some information. about the book, but we're all over social media. A lot of good things are happening with the industry. All right.

We'll be back. Final segment with the author of Zero Victim James Ward. Don't go away. Are you tired of not getting a good night's sleep? Well, my friend Mike Lendell has created the perfect solution. He didn't just stop at the pillow. He also created the Giza Dream Bed Sheets made from the world's best cotton called Giza. These sheets are ultra-soft and breathable yet extremely durable.

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James Ward, that new attitude is a Jesus attitude. There's no way around it. This is not just positive thinking. it's a Jesus attitude because it's radical. When you pray for your enemies, when you love your enemies, we cannot do that in our own strength. And it's no wonder that so many people kind of fall into this abyss of really self-pity, buying the victimization attitude, because really apart from Jesus, there is no clear way out of this conundrum. We're talking about sin.

You're absolutely right. You mentioned the word radical. And using that idea, Jesus was radical when it came to unrighteousness and the godlessness of the culture. I sometimes tell folks we work in and out of the D.C. area that even today, I think we've made the mistake of allowing even conservatism to at least feel like a replacement theology for true Christianity. And we have to remind ourselves, that God is neither Democrat nor Republican. This is a kingdom ideology. You know, we're not here to be on the left or the right, but to call people from the left and the right above and to the kingdom of God. And I sometimes say that the problem with just conservatism and the ideology is that people who are radical

will always dominate and defeat people who are conservatives for this reason. Conservative people who have nothing to gain and everything to lose will always be defeated by people who have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And I think that many of the voices and the ideologies of unrighteousness today are more radical concerning unrighteousness than the church is concerning righteousness. And so we need a shift of mindset. The violent are going to take in advance the kingdom of God. That's fascinating way of putting it because, and it also depends

how you define conservatism, but let's be honest. I mean, I am conservative, but there are plenty conservatives that are not Christian. They don't have Christian values running all the way through. They picked up some principles that I would agree with. But it is important that people who love Jesus are influencing the conservative movement more than the conservative movement is influencing the church. And what you just said about, like the desperation, I mean, if I'm living in a bad situation, I'm hopeless, it is natural. to just go to anything that is offering you a way out. Even if it's a false path, you're inclined toward that more than you're inclined to the status quo.

What if the status quo is not working very well for you. And so that's an interesting thing that we are called as Christians to be radical. And I mean, I talk about this a lot in my book, or at least I talk about it a lot when I'm speaking. But it comes out of my book, Letter to the American Church. just idea that we're supposed to be on offense. We're not just supposed to be like, well, here we are. Everything's okay. Everything is not okay.

And we need to be on the march to bring God into every single sphere and stop keeping God in the churches and bring the church out into every sphere and bring those values out. Because without God, we cannot solve society's problems. I mean, the idea that we could is foolish. It's been tried many times. and it doesn't only not solve the problem, but usually makes the problem somehow worse. Yeah, it does.

I often say that the church's spiritual report card is the condition of the nation, not the size of our buildings or the size of our congregations. If we really want to know how well we are, let's check how effective the light is being in dispelling the darkness and how effective the salt is being in preventing decay in society. And so we really want to take an honest assessment of how we're doing, and the veracity of our Christianity and our faith, we have to look at society. Now, we know that scripturally that things are going to continue to fall, and we know that the world is ultimately under God's judgment. But the agent of preservation and change, the only institution that Jesus

himself endorses and stands behind is the Church of Jesus Christ, and we have to be engaged in the cultural issues of our day. We have to be engaged in the messiness of the day. I talk about this this zero victim message in the context of Christ in the cultural crisis. When we look at the fact that we're called to be ambassadors for Christ, you know, 2nd Corinthians 520 or so, now then are we ambassadors for Christ. And it says that God is pleading through the church for the world to be reconciled under God, the ministry and the word of reconciliation. We're called to stand in that space and to be repairs of the breach and restores of the street to dwell

in if we're going to be true, true to our faith. faith. And you talk about the messiness of society. I think back to Victor Frankl. I love his thinking. Holocaust survivor. He used this idea. He talks about space that between the stimulus and the response is a space. And that's very much a zero victim principle that I have adopted, that life is filled with stimulus. There are all kinds of problems and challenges in society. The world is a fall in place, perfectly designed to make victims out of us. But between a stimulus and our response or our reaction is that space that we get to decide, not what happens to us, but how we respond or react what happens to us. I say that victim thinkers react by reflex, but zero victim thinkers

respond by reason. And that's the difference between having an I lose frame or reference versus having a mindset that you can engage and utilize the faculties that God has given us to change the situations that we're dealing with. It's interesting what you said about the report card. How did you put that? The church's spiritual report card is the condition of the nation. Which reminds me of the person that I have written about and referenced in my new book, Letter to the American Church. D.J.J. McHenhofer famously said, the church is the conscience of the state. In other words, it is the job of those who call themselves Christians to speak truth, to act lovingly, to be the repairs of the breach.

All of that stuff falls on the church. And we have many, many, many in the church today who act as though, you know what, I don't want to get involved. I just want to be apolitical to the point where I want to be inactive. I just want to be doing my church thing, doing my theology thing, and that that doesn't reach out beyond the church. That's just a theological thing. And we know it's just the opposite.

It's supposed to reach everywhere. It's supposed to reach into the culture. We're done for this hour. We're going to drag you over into hour two. I hope we have a few more minutes. Folks, we're talking to the author of Zero Victim, James Ward. Stick around. Folks, this is one of the most important things we talk about on this program.

We don't talk about it enough. But the money that you have in pension funds, 401Ks, whatever it is, is effectively being controlled by people who are working against you and your values. A lot of us have money in funds that invest in, oh, Target, Amazon, you name it. all kinds of companies that are working dramatically against everything you believe in. So it's time that we wake up. We understand the financial power that we have and pull our money out of these kinds of places, which is why I have as my guest, the founder and CEO of Inspire on the program, Robert Netsley. Robert, we've talked about this before, but the power that we have,

financially is huge. But the reason things have gone to hell in a handbasket is because most of us don't have a clue that we have this power. We kind of act like it's a separate thing. And I go and I vote, you know, every two years or something. But every single day, tons of our money is being used against us because of our investments. So before I let you talk, I want to tell people to go to InspireAdvisors.com. slash Eric, where you can fix this.

You can find out what's happening with your money. InspireAdvisors.com slash Eric. Robert Nessley, when did you wake up to this and say, I want to solve this? Because this is as big as it gets. Well, it was about 12 years ago when I was working at Wells Fargo investment services. And I got, you know, kicking the rear end by discovery that I, here I am president to our local pro-life pregnancy center. and I own three stocks of companies manufacturing abortion drugs.

And the Holy Spirit just convict me on this issue that here I am, you know, fighting to save the lives of these pressures unborn. And I'm making money every time somebody has an abortion. And then you go down the laundry list of all these other issues, LGBT activism and human trafficking, you know, et cetera, et cetera, launched us into what we're doing now. And, and, you know, by God's grace, millions upon millions of Christians and other conservatives with similar values are waking up to the fact. uncomfortable fact that in your investment account you own and are profiting from things that would make your stomach churn. And not only that, but because of the fund companies that you have your money placed in, those fund companies get to vote for the issues of these companies promote things like we're seeing in the news with Target and others. That's your money at work, but it's at work against you. But it doesn't have to be that way.

So that free report and that there's a way to fix it. It's very easy. Just got to be aware and take some simple steps. And we're putting some free work and reports out for listeners here, inspired by just.com slash Eric, like you mentioned. So people are informed and aware of what they can do to fix this because if we don't fix it. If you just sit there blindly going along, like, that's going to get better. It's going to all get worse.

And frankly, it's going to be your fault for not doing anything. You know, we've got to do something about it and, you know, let God have the results. But we can't just sit here and do. nothing because that's how we got here in first place. We've all got to become activists. We've all got to, I think a lot of us just thought like, well, I'm just going to go along in my life. And, you know, I go to church on Sunday.

And well, folks, there are things you need to do. And if you don't do it, you're responsible for things going to hell in a handbasket. So I want to ask you, please, first of all, this is free. Okay. This is, this is free. Inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. this is the solution. Every single one of us needs to get our dollars and cents out of these places with a satanic agenda.

Inspireadvisors.com slash Eric, when you go there, you will see that this is not going to cost you anything. They're there to help you. And I just wish everyone would do this. I'll say it again, inspireadvisors.com slash Eric, inspireadvisors.com. Eric. Robert Netsley, thank you so much. Thank you.