The Eric Metaxas Show - Jason Jones and Seth Talbott

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

Jason Jones of Stream.org on the Hawaii devastation and the latest on Ukraine, plus, Seth Talbott shares his family's story of the fleeing the fires in Lahaina.

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I wub, vanilla. I wub, I wub, wab, I wab. Here comes Eric Metaxus. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. You are aware that a nightmare has been happening in our beautiful state of Hawaii. We want to reach out to one of our friends who lives there, Jason Jones. He has tremendous credentials, the most important of which is that he's friends with John Zmirak.

Jason Jones, welcome. It's great to be on your show, Eric. Eric, thank you for having me. I have been mystified as to what is actually happening in Hawaii. I've read conflicting reports. It's very confusing. You live there. What's your sense of, you know, what is happening, what's being done?

You know, Eric, I don't know when this started in our country that when there is a catastrophe, our government officials think that their most important job is to go on television and dissemble. It's as if they don't want to communicate the truth. And then this leads to all sorts of conspiracy theories and despair. And that's what we're seeing here in Lahaina. Now, you know, this is the home of my family. We've moved to Texas during COVID. We've been there now for two years.

And but my daughter's, you know, my family lives here. My daughter has a business here. And this is our home. It was very strange. I run an organization that serves communities in catastrophes facing genocide and war. I never imagined in my life that I would be flying to Hawaii to do what it is that I do. And what has happened in Lahaina, the way I feel it, and I think the way that the people of Hawaii feel it, is it's like the scale of 9-11. It's not 100 dead.

And, you know, it was 30, then it was 60, and they act each time, and they're creeping it up, creeping it up. They need to tell the truth. Lahaina is gone. they sent school children home to empty houses. They didn't have cell phones. The alarms did not go off. The sirens did not go off. If you didn't have a cell phone, there would be no way for you to know to leave your house and you're a child.

So we're going to find lots of children. They're finding children. They're finding families. This fire moved at one point up to a mile a minute. There's no escaping that. and poor tourists are coming here. The locals are getting upset because tourists are arriving. Well, but the tourists didn't really know.

The media was not communicating what happened. Even on Oahu and the other islands, if it weren't for families communicating with each other, and the people in the Haina still, we're shipping generators over there now on solar panels and we're desperately needs Starlink. So Elon Musk, if you're watching, we need Starlink. Starlings have helped us in Ukraine and Afghanistan. And again, to imagine that I would have to be shipping and flying over Starlings to Lahaina Maui is really unbelievable, Eric. But this is one of the greatest catastrophes in American history.

Now, I've been traveling for two days and very busy. So maybe something happened in the past 48 hours. But I feel that the media is not giving this catastrophe the attention that it deserves. And there's some real things that we need to do, which is protect the Kamaaina, those. those families that have lived in Hawaii for generations, and especially the native Hawaiians, because vultures are descending on Lahaina trying to buy their property in the midst of this crisis. This is something that cannot be allowed to happen. You know, these Hawaiian families and these Kamaayna families have been pesky to groups like BlackRock

who want them to sell their property because they're sitting on, you know, billions and billions of dollars of property. But this is, it's more than money to these families. This is, this is all they have. This is all they know. This is their home. And they need to be protected. They're going to need help paying for funerals. There's going to be too many funerals to imagine.

And then we're going to have to rebuild Lahaina and protect it. Now, how many people, because I've literally never been to Hawaii, I don't have any sense of the scope of what you're talking about. When you say Lahaina, this is a part of Maui. Give us a sense of what we're talking about exactly. Yeah, it was actually the capital of the Hawaiian Island. for a long time. And Eric, it's also the center

for the spread of the gospel of Jesus Christ to Hawaii. It's really where it started. Lahaina, you know, by 1850, Hawaii was the most Christian kingdom in the world. And, you know, every culture that, when the gospel hits different cultures, it reflects in beautiful, different

ways. The gospel reflecting through the people of Hawaii is what we call Aloha. It's the gospel reflecting through the people of Hawaii was a Christian kingdom. And so La Hinena is this is um yeah it's a very it's a very you know historic town and that was the other thing and this is where a lot of the conspiracy theories are swirling it was historic so even if you could buy people's property you couldn't change it but now it's it's gone it's all gone and

it's too soon to talk about this because there's still families that don't have thousands of families that don't have clean water and no way to communicate with the outside world so that needs to be dealt with first. But I think that Lahaina needs to be rebuilt in a way that honors the Hawaiian culture that honors the families there and that we keep Lahaina local. We keep Lahaina for the Kama'ana and for the Hawaiians. This is very important. Well, again, it's just tough for people to fathom what has happened. And of course, the great nightmare is that Joe Biden doesn't seem to be saying anything about this. It's absolutely, I mean, there is bizarre and then there's utterly inexplicable.

How is it possible that the man who believes he's the President of the United States, or maybe he actually knows that he's not, but that most people think of as the President of the United States, has not done everything possible to reach out. Because as you said, this is a tragedy of gigantic scope. This is not some little local thing. This is an absolute gigantic tragedy with many, many, many people dying. Can you understand why he wouldn't have been all over this?

No, look, I'll tell you why the Democrat Party has always taken the state for granted, for three decades. They just treat it as, yeah, we don't need even fight for that state. I wish politicians would just act like politicians. I don't expect them to care. Obviously, I don't expect Joe Biden to have empathy.

But I would expect that he act that way, that behave in a way that doesn't undermine the dignity of the people of Hawaii. To have no comment, to have no comment. Now, Eric, like I said, I've been traveling to Hawaii and we've been working. We were up all night in the command. Center with different coalition of local organizations on our plans to distribute aid today and

tomorrow in the coming days. I'll be driving all over Maui with my 17-year-old son distributing aid this week. You know, behave in a way that shows empathy, shows concern. And if people think this is hyperbole, and I can imagine it's easy to think in the coverage that we've been seeing in the media, do a Google image search. Go on Google, duck, dot go, go put video, search Lahaina. Go on Instagram, follow the vulnerable people prior. Follow me, actually, because I'm sharing all the Hawaiians at the Jason Jones show on Instagram. Look at what the Native Hawaiians are sharing Nakama Aina from Lahaina. Watch what they're sharing.

Eric, it's like nothing. I just got back from Ukraine. You know, I work in war zones. I was in Iraq during the time of ISIS. I was in Sudan during the genocide. There's footage from Lahaina that you've known. ever seen anything like this in your life. Family, you know, there were these young girls that you can see. They're driving around and they're live streaming it, trying to get out of the city. And then

it cuts. And, you know, I think the worst happened to them. There's footage of families in the harbor surrounded by buildings and boats on fire. How this isn't the biggest news story in the country is beyond me. And I don't know why everything has to become politics. I guess we, we have to muffle this to protect some political interest or to protect. I don't know why the mainstream media is muffling this. I guess it has to do with politics, but sometimes can't we just care for people? Can't we be thoughtful to our own that are suffering? Well, I will keep you for our next segment, Jason, because there's so much I want to talk to you about.

I want to remind my audience right now, something that you can do. We are working with food for the poor to help people suffering in this hemisphere, not specifically in Hawaii, but suffering is suffering. We need your help. I'm asking you, please today, go to metaxis talk.com. Be as generous as you can. We really do need your help, metaxis talk.com. We're doing a campaign for food for the poor. Actually, I take that back.

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That's legacy PM Investments.com. Go back, folks. I'm talking to my friend Jason Jones. He's a film producer, author, activist, podcast host, Human Rights Worker, President of the Human Rights, Education Organization, Director of the Vulnerable People Project. And today we're talking to him about his home, which is Hawaii, where he grew up. And also, Jason, we were going to talk about this is the second anniversary of the fall of Afghanistan. I don't even know how to put it.

It's like the fall of Saigon, the nightmare of two years ago under the Biden administration. Nightmares that we really haven't seen, folks. This is a new level of nightmare and a new level of leadership that is not leadership, that is anti-leadership. What do you make of or you wanted to make a connection between Afghanistan and Hawaii? You know, you see Joe Biden. Again, this is not politics for me. You know, he likes to say I'm his best friend, but my acquaintance, John's Merak.

He likes to make things political. and I love John. But this is not politics. When you have Joe Biden have no comment on Hawaii, I'm sorry, if I'm a Democrat, if I'm Joe Biden's cousin, this is shocking. The way that he skipped away, the way that he skipped away from Afghanistan

without looking back, 13 Americans dead, 170 Afghans died at the explosion at Abbegated. October 26th will be the anniversary of Abbeygate. 180,000 Afghan allies who were promised visas abandoned. Today, Eric, this morning, the first thing I woke up to was a signal message of a desperate Afghan ally in Afghanistan that needs to be evacuated. You know, my organization's been managing safe houses for our allies now for two years, desperately begging with the U.S. government for visas for people they promised visas to. And we open up a Rome office.

We're resettling these folks all over the world now because we can't. get the State Department to move quickly as if these people have all the time in the world. So when you see an administration that is thoughtless to 13 American soldiers and Marines that died and our allies that died, I don't know how these people don't, how they sleep without massive doses of medication. This is part of the United States. You know, if I were in Native Hawaiian right now, I would be asking myself, why are we even a part of the United States. You illegally overthrew the kingdom. Why are we even a part of the United States

when the president of the United States doesn't even have a comment for us, where the mainstream media makes it as an afterthought? But I think that these are definitely connected. It's just a lack of concern for human suffering. You had me on recently to talk about I'm advocating for an immediate ceasefire and armistice in Ukraine, an administration that is thoughtless to the endless suffering on this happening now in Ukraine. I think it is all connected. And when you look at the politicians at FEMA and the state of Hawaii, it's the people of Hawaii feel it's just getting nothing but dissembling and

disinformation. What about hospitality and concern for the suffering? How many people do you think in the end will have died in what's happening? Because the numbers are now, I guess today it was. 100. I'm not sure when this is going to air. But what is your sense of what we're dealing with? Eric, I'm going to Lahaina today. I will tell you that I have the population of Lahaina's 13,000. I've had friends who've told me, I don't know, let's say the numbers out loud. I don't even want to say hundreds and hundreds. Now, you have to know, you think about this.

Let's say it's a thousand. And that's the low number of what I've heard from friends from Lahaina. Now, I know that if you walk down a street and you see 50 dead bodies and you've never seen a dead body before, that seems like hundreds and hundreds. And I pray that it's 100 and one. I pray it's what they say it is now. But my friends from Lahaina, I've heard hundreds and hundreds over a thousand. I've even heard numbers much higher than that. Now, in a town of 13,000, let's just put it in perspective to 9-11, New York City and you lose 2,000 people. We lost an entire town.

It's just gone. They sent those kids home to houses of parents that were off to work. So I pray that is exactly the number they say. But my friends in Lahaina are been pinging me from the very beginning saying, Jason, get the truth out there. This is hundreds and hundreds of dead. Why they're, you know. And instead of just doing this morbid count, they should just say, listen, it's a catastrophe. La Hina's gone. We have to seek through the rubble. We're trying to get you accurate numbers.

But this sort of slow leak every day, we can confirm this. We can confirm that. It strikes me as morbid and very strange. And it down, it's as if they want to soft pedal the catastrophe. Now, why would that be? That's what I don't get either. What would the, what would the motive possible be possible motive for for downplaying the horror? Well, I mean, there's the most awful conspiracy theories. I would bet it's on the banality of bureaucracies. And you have a bunch of people sitting in a room staring at each other. And they're afraid that there may be some blame because the electricity wasn't cut.

The fire department was sent home before a fire was totally put out. We've been told water was shut off. So on the locals tried to begin to battle the fire themselves because of their own water was turned off. so they couldn't fight the fires. So this is why I'm going to Lahaina. You know, in the midst of catastrophes, when those who represent us disassemble, then conspiracy theories creep in.

And that divides a community. And I don't want to do anything that divides the community of Lahaina that their heart is broken. But let the people of Lahaina, they're saying all sorts of things, let them. What I want to do is make sure they get clean,

water, that they can communicate with their loved ones, that they have shelter, that their children are safe, that they're able to keep their property, and that we assist them in the sorrowful burden of paying for these funerals because, I mean, there are families that have lost multiple loved ones. I'm sorry for there. There were probably entire families that we've lost. We've got just a few minutes left. I don't know if you want to give us an update on what you think is happening in the Ukraine at this point? You know, I'm going to say the same. And as John and I have been writing together, it's still the same old. We hear the battle for how much money, which weapon systems, and I support continuing to support the Ukrainians' war effort. And but, but, but, but,

and I, John and I, John disagrees with me on that. But where we're united in and we wish that the conservative movement would be a wood of voice is why in the world is there not a ringing, why aren't we roaring for a ceasefire? And I think it's just all linked, you know, and this is why, Eric, I love your writing. It's just, it goes back and, I mean, this is Salem. People always email me. I get too preachy, but it's the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's thoughtfulness for the suffering of others. And we've, it's as the gospels left us as a people, we've become very thin, sold, and vapid. And it's if we, you know, the old Mel Brooks joke about what's the difference between a tragedy and a comedy. A comedy is when you see somebody walk down the road fall through an

open manhole sewer and die. And a tragedy is when we stub our own toe. We become a people obsessed with our stubbed toe. And we're living and around us, there's a sea of human sorrow and suffering. And we become oblivious to it. And there's no better example of this than the of the United States, Joe Biden. This man utterly seems unable to sense the suffering that he's causing the American people. Could you imagine Eric Metaxis if, you know, you're a president of the United States and you're asked about a city that you're in your country that's just been decimated and you have no comment?

what that tells you also is that there's no one on his staff that thought this was a priority that said, as John, I love what John calls him, he calls him the committee formerly known as Joe Biden. You would think someone in the committee formerly known as Joe Biden would think that this was a question that one should be prepared to answer. Not only that, one would think you've worked in political communications, Eric, you know about blocking and bridging. If I were a member of the committee formerly known as Joe Biden, I would say, president, whatever question you are asked, the first question you're going to say, thank you for that question. I'm going to get to that. But before I get to that question, I want the people of Lahaina to know that we're there with you, that we're praying for you,

and that we're going to use the federal government all, everything at our disposal to assist your state, to assist your county, and we're going to stand with you. We're praying for you, and our heart breaks with you. And then I would answer the question. You would think, that there's somebody working for the President of the United States that maybe didn't care, but was a politician that had enough sense to know that they have two members of Congress, two senators, and a governor that are Democrats. And, but no, we can't even get that. We can't even get that.

Why? I just don't think they see other people stuff. Well, right. But, I mean, it's hard not to make it political, Jason. we don't have time. We're at a time right now, but my goodness, just thank you for your willingness to share what you've shared. Obviously, we'll have you back soon.

God bless you, my friend. Take care. Sometimes I'd like to quit. Nothing ever seems to fit. Every day we hear about another familiar brand selling out their customers and going woke. Americans are sick and tired of having leftist propaganda jammed into every product they consume.

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Pete, your family, you spent a lot of time in Hawaii. First of all, welcome the program. Thanks for having us. Yeah, we got back late Friday night. I was the last to be able to get out of Hawaii. But yeah, my parents, it kind of goes back to my grandparents. My grandparents started going to Maui a long time ago. They passed almost 20 years ago.

And they kind of started the trend for our family. And then my dad and my mom picked up and they go multiple times a year. So the Maui, Kana, area has been one of our primary vacation spots for now three generations. So you were there very recently and you have a story to tell. So tell us the story. Yeah. So when we were there, it was interesting because the wind was nuts. The gusts were coming up into the high 80s.

to the point where it was hard to be on the beach because you're getting sandblasted when you're on the beach. I'd never seen anything like that, frankly. And, you know, you get the typical things. Like, when you saw the cartoons, the Warner Bros. Cartoons with the palm trees going sideways. Like, we're looking out of our deck, and we're seeing these trees, and they're just going crazy.

And the workers on the facility were trimming trees and being really proactive because of so many, much debris going all over the place. So we knew that there was the hurricane offshore that was doing something with winds. And, you know, you go to bed and the lights flicker and you don't think much of it. And with Hawaii, there's always fires. And we're in Washington, too, and there's always these fires that start. And they don't tend to be that dangerous, at least, to threaten the areas that we've been around

before. So we knew kind of in the back of mind there were some fires. and then we knew the winds. And it was a bit after midnight and the power goes out. And, you know, we kind of expected it to, frankly, because the winds were so crazy. But we woke up that next morning and power was still out. And then the cell towers stopped working shortly after that, which became problematic for us for a lot of different reasons. So updates weren't coming through.

couldn't figure out what was going on. So I jumped in the minivan and mad maxed it south because I was trying to, I was actually trying to jump on a Zoom call. And I just couldn't get any signal anywhere. So I went south. I initially went north. And I saw a whole bunch of people kind of just lingering around the side of the road, almost like they were queuing up for something.

So it was really confusing because there's cars all over the place. and there's just people sitting around. And it didn't click with me. So I kept on driving north and north and north. And I couldn't get any signal. And the road started getting more and more narrow and just sketchy. So I turned around and came back. I texted my wife and I said, I'm headed south.

So I went on highway, I think it's 30, and went past Lahaina. And I eventually got cell coverage. And I went to a circle K, got 60 pounds of up. and some food and gasped up and came back. Well, interestingly, my wife took a screenshot from her phone on the Find My app app on the iPhone, and it shows my last known location right in the middle of Haina. Well, shortly after that, we found out later that Lahaina burned to the ground, which we didn't know.

But what was troubling was that we were being told, like the, the fire was contained. I don't know how much you followed with this, Eric, but they told through the alert system that the line of fire was 100% contained. And then that same day, it burned to the ground. So the, the winds came over the hill. So the story currently is,

and I don't say that in a conspiratorial way. I think it's just too early to tell exactly right now. But the wind came over the hill hard and just blew through the town and caught everybody off guard. But they had literally told everyone that the Lahaina fire was contained, 100% contained. But my daughter, it's funny. My daughter's looking in the sky.

And she's like, Dad, something's wrong. And we look. And I've never seen anything like it. The closest thing I've seen to it came out of movies, honestly, where you've just got the reds and the oranges and the smoke. It was apocalyptic looking. I've never, ever seen anything. like it. And, but we're like, well, they said that it was contained. So, um, we go to bed.

We wake up. And that's when we found out that next day that Lahaina was, was gone. And that I had been right by it. And I almost got separated from my family because it went so far and so fast that the roads got blocked. And it's really exposed a major problem with, with Maui and specifically the Conno Pauley Lahaina area in that there's no way out. And it's a very bizarre choice they made just from an infrastructure perspective because we couldn't get out. I just want to stop you there. We're going to go to a break.

We'll be back. Lots more folks trying to find out what happened in Hawaii. What's happening now? Don't go away. Hey there, folks. My friend Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. And he didn't stop at the pillow. Mike also created the Giza Dream bed sheets. These sheets look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep, which is crucial for our overall health. Mike found the world's best cotton called Giza. It's ultra-soft and breathable, but extremely durable.

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That's 800-9783057. Or go to MyPillow.com, use the promo code Eric. MyPillow.com, use the promo code, Eric. Folks, welcome back. We're talking to our friend Seth Talbot, who was in Hawaii at the time of this horror in Lahaina. So you were just saying that it's impossible to get out of there. In other words, because of the way the roads are and so on and so forth, that there's no escape. Now, our previous guest, my friend Jason Jones, whose home was in Hawaii,

why his family's from there. He related a nightmare that he thinks many, many, many more people died than has been reported so far. Yes. And you have a similar sense of that? Well, I don't want to be quoted for spreading misinformation because we live in this age, right? But from last I've heard, there's a thousand people not. found yet. Well, who's not found that would be alive? So I'm seeing this trickling of the number, and it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know if they're just trying to not scare everybody,

but there's two things that are going on from what I've seen. Again, I'm not the most well-informed here. So this is not authoritative information. This is just from what I've seen. The missing count is enormous and they're not letting people back into the town and that's creating some conspiracy. There's no conspiracy from my perspective. It is obviously going to be a glorified burial ground because there's so many bodies. I think that's the more likely situation is because if you think about it, it's a very small area we're talking about.

This isn't hundreds of miles or whatever. This is a small area. and if there are missing people and it's been a week, how many people would be alive that just haven't been found? That doesn't make sense. So I think the percentage of people that are still missing, to me, I'm expecting the number to be well over 1,000. I know Tulsi Gabbard got interviewed recently. And she, I think, put the number at 1,300 is what she, I believe she's expecting. So again, that's what I was just talking to a buddy of mine.

and he watched her interview. So I didn't see that interview. But that's unimaginable. I mean, that's a level of tragedy that we don't see in the United States of America. No, the last time I can think of anything like this was honestly like 9-11. I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of anything that's been close to this. And if you, but if you knew the Lahaina area, it's actually not surprising. They did a report that addressed this with Lahaina a number of years.

ago. And so the whole idea of this is a huge surprise is that doesn't make any sense to me. They knew that they had no exit paths. I don't understand why the alarm system didn't go off. They bragged about this being the world's most sophisticated alert system and no one triggered it. There's a few potential answers for that that I don't want to speculate that, you know, because I know there was so many problems that maybe the people that would have were being pulled in another direction because this was a surprise. So I could see that maybe being a reason why is that they thought they would contain and the workers were someplace else. Something like that. I don't know.

But the death count, I think, is going to be, it's going to blow everybody's mind, I think. And that is why they're not being subtle about this. They've said, we can't let you in because you're going to trample over a crime scene. but where people have passed. And so from the last I've heard, they're asking people that are missing family members or friends to turn in DNA. Well, that's why they're not letting people in. So this is going to be a horror.

The thing that I'm on what's going to be weird is within the next few weeks, we're going to start getting on, we're going to get firsthand cell coverage, cell phone videos from people. And I think this is going to be, terrifying and very, very unsettling for people. Our situation was weird because we were trapped. We had group of 15. We had two vehicles.

I had gassed up my minivan, but the other group in our group didn't have much gas. So we had a real dilemma that third day of they needed to get to the airport the following day. But we were being told the road was closed to go south to the airport. and they had a third of tank, and our local lady said, you don't have the gas to get anywhere. So we had a real crisis of trying to figure out how we were going to get 15 people south with a road closed. I had actually taken a back road that was an unmarked road. It was an old highway. And when I went to the Circle K, when I said I mad maxed it, I was on a road that Google wasn't, I was doing.

It was telling me, I don't know where you are. to bypass a lot of the mess. So I didn't know that Mejana was burning at the time. But there's no way in and out of that. So we eventually got out and got my parents to the airport. They slept in the airport. We were in a shelter the night of the 9th and then in the shelter on the 10th. And then we eventually got the family out in chunks over about six flights with mine.

being the last to leave coming back this last late Friday. But it was a war zone running into people that lost their home. That second day without power was truly surreal as you're walking amongst people that had just lost their home. You're in line for getting tacos for two hours. and we're next to a lady that had just lost everything and said this is everything that I have you see on me right now. This is unbelievable stuff, folks. Before we go to the break, I want to remind you

that this kind of thing happens almost routinely in the part of the world that Food for the Poor deals with Latin America, the Caribbean, I want to exhort you, please to do what you can, because the suffering there is no different than the suffering that we're hearing about in Hawaii. People losing their homes because of hurricanes, people who can't feed their kids, people have no drinking water. We're in a position to do something about it for those families, but we need your help. So I'm asking you, please go to metaxistococococ.com. Metaxistococon.com is the website. You'll see the banner. Emergency relief right at the top.

We need everybody to step up who can step up because the hurricane season is coming and this is happening. You can also text the word Eric to 911-99 on your phone. 911-999. Just text Eric to 911-99. Something will pop up and you can give that way, but we need your help. We'll be right back talking to Seth Talbot about the situation in Hawaii. Folks, welcome back.

We're talking about the nightmare of what's... happened in Hawaii with our friend Seth Talbot. And Seth, I think the strangest thing to me on the surface of it is that when a couple of days ago, President Biden was asked about whether he had any comment, he pretty cavalierly said I have no comment, which I find so bizarre because it would have cost him nothing to say a few heartfelt words. Do you have any comprehension of why? why that even could be possible, the United States of America,

that a president is being asked about a tragedy that happened in America, where he is ostensibly president and that he would have zero comment. I just, I just don't know how to process it. Oh, I think it's pretty easy. I think it's pretty easy. I think his handlers have told him

to not say anything because he can't anymore. So I don't mean to go super political, but, I mean, he can't string sentences together at this point. So I think his handlers have told him to not say anything because he's probably not going to get the facts straight. If he was asked any specific question, I'm not sure he'd even be able to pronounce Lahaina correctly. So I don't want to be ugly about it, but I'm sure that that's why. I would wager a thousand bucks. He was just told to not say anything because he can't.

Or they're just afraid that he will say something harmful to the situation. So better to say nothing. I don't know. Yeah, and I think that the information's changing, too. I got to say, I mean, the whole thing where the body count, you know, if they ask them, how many people do you think have passed? Like, there's so much speculation. There's the idea that the town with one of the world's premier warning facilities didn't trigger.

This is a real horror story where the people were just being swept up in the street. people were running for their lives, they're trapped in cars. I saw an interview yesterday of a couple that, obviously the alarm system didn't go off their neighbor, saved their lives, came and said, get out, get out.

They jumped in the car. And they almost made the wrong turn that would have killed them in the street because they went down front street and they would have been stuck. So this is going to be a really weird one to unwind, I think, for the authorities because they knew that Lahaina had major problems.

Again, you can't look at the town of Lahaina and think that it's got egress that's going to work. You've got this whole like all these hotels north of Lahaina from Whalers Village all the way up to Kanapali and Papakia where you're seeing all. And there's nowhere for them to go. And the thing that was weird for me was, as I told you before, when I went north to try to get cell signal, it's when we're, when we're, Let me kind of rewind. I went to the lobby of our place to figure out how to get my family out. And the lady pulls up a map. And this map was their regular map.

And it shows the island and roads. And she shows me, she goes, you see this place on the top of Maui? And it's red. All the roads are black. She goes, this is red. She goes, this is like a goat road. You're not allowed to go on this normally. That's your only way out of here.

And that's seven to eight hours. So anybody that's got less. than I don't know how much gas can't even get out. How is that the case that you know you've got wildfires generally on the island as a risk? I know when the sugar cane stopped being planted, they put in apparently grass that ignites quickly. So there's some sort of environmental problem that they've created for themselves that allows for this. So they know that there's a risk. How do you not have an egress where you're going to literally have thousands of people trapped?

It's very weird to me. And I was surprised by the complete lack of information. My dad, as we were trying to get him out, we found he was getting really bad information from all sorts. And it was very strange that we couldn't get straight information. We're going to have to end it there. Seth Talbot, friend, thank you for sharing this story with us. Hard for us to get our heads around it. It's fight to say everybody should be praying for the focus.

in Lahaina in Hawaii. Thank you, Seth, and folks will be back with our two.