The Eric Metaxas Show - Jenna Ellis (continued)

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Jenna Ellis, Constitutional law expert, continues her discussion of election integrity, the current case before the Supreme Court addressing creative freedom, and a whole array of other cultural and political issues.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metaxe. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Eric Metaxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there. Guess what, Albin. You already know. You already know. I know. This is that time of the week when we do a segment we call Ask Metaxus. You read the question.

people have sent in all these questions. We try to get as many as we can, and I try to answer them. So what is the first question? Okay. So Bonnie and Casey has written to ask, she says, I'm reading your book, Bonhoeffer, and the Lord is speaking to my heart. I do have one question. What does it mean to move from confession to conspiracy? That's a famous Bonhofer phrase, moving from confession to conspiracy, or maybe it was his best friend, Abraham Hart Baitka, who talked about it. But what he means is to confess what you believe. In other words, not to confess like to a crime, but to confess my faith is to speak to tell people what I believe.

He says at some point we moved from confession and conspiracy. It means that Bonhofer at some point essentially said, I'm going to have to start talking less about what I believe and living what I believe. In other words, Nazis, their ability to say things went down because they were losing their freedoms. And he said, we're going to have to be subversive. We're going to have to enter the conspiracy against the Nazis as an expression of our faith. In other words, we're going to live out our faith by resisting the Nazis, by working against the Nazis, by getting involved in the conspiracy against Hitler

and the Nazis. And so in a sense, we have to go underground. And it's an amazing, It's an amazing thing. If you've read my Bonhoeffer biography, I do talk about it in there. But it's an amazing thing when you realize, okay, I'm going to stop talking, but I'm going to do something more dangerous than talking. I'm going to live out my faith by being subversive to the evil regime. So that's what it means. Thank you, Bonnie. Wow, good one here. The second question, do you use the term, do you use the term evolved in common speech or avoid its use because it's so terribly misapplied and misinterpreted? Do I use the term evolved? Yes, I do, because I think when you use the term evolved, it's become a generic term, and it doesn't mean I agree with blind Darwinian evolution. So, yeah, I think the term evolved is a neutral anodyne term, and I'm happy to use it in common speech and uncommon speech. Yeah.

Now, this next question, I'm going to actually let you read it, Eric, because it's all about your letter to the American church. Okay, this was a big one. It's a long one. Yeah, okay, let me read this one. Okay, somebody writes in and says, Eric, after listening to a few of your interviews and looking into your book letter to the American church, I cannot help but ask. about your affiliation with the Episcopal Church. According to various sources, including Wikipedia, you've attended the Episcopal Church. You've encouraged American churches to speak out and take political positions on the various social issues that you may view as evil. The

Episcopal Church has done just that, but not in the way one would expect from a Christian church. The Episcopal Church recently resolved, quote, unquote, that the 80th General Convention calls for the Episcopal Church to advocate for access to gender-affirming care in all forms, social, medical, or any other, and at all ages. Transgender medical procedures in all forms, and at all ages are being promoted by the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church also wrote, quote, resolved that the Episcopal Church recognizes that access to abortion is a key element in preserving the health, independence, and autonomy of those who can bear children, otherwise known as women.

What say you? Well, listen, while I was attending an Episcopal Church, which is some years ago, I was doing so knowing that the Episcopal Church generally has gone off the rails. And when they say things like this, this is lunacy. This is anti-Christian. It's wrong on every level. So I have never been an advocate for the Episcopal Church. I have been a member of an Episcopal Church here in New York City. I mean, I haven't for many years, but the point is that, you know, just because you attend a church doesn't mean you agree with everything that's going on there. So, yeah, I don't know. Sometimes Wikipedia is like, you know, I don't know why it even mentions that I went to an Episcal church. I've also been to, you know, Presbyterian churches and Pentecostal churches.

And, you know, so it's kind of funny. But I agree with what this person says. I mean, I'm horrified by the direction and the proposterous. insious insane statements of the Episcopal Church and many mainline denominations. So thanks for that question. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is from our friend Kurt. He writes some interesting questions. I hear that you and Elbin are selling autographed copies of your books at the Metaxus store, which is shopmetaxis.com, by the way. Those who would, they would make great Christmas gifts. But because of the news that Bob Dylan used an auto pen to sign 900 copies of his new book, Philosophy of Modern Song, and then charge people $599 for what they thought was a hand-signed copy.

I'm a little leery of buying something inauthentic. You and Albin don't use auto pens to sign your books, do you? Okay, I've got a lot to say on this. First of all, Albin said shopmetaxis.com. You can go to shopmetaxis.com, or you can just go to metaxis talk.com. That's our radio website and where it says, I think it's click on the shop or whatever it is, shopmetaxis.com, or you can go to metaxis talk.com. I also want to point out that our friend Kurt misspelled the word Leary. It's L-E-E-E-R-Y, not L-E-A-R-Y. Ha! Ha! And finally, let me make the point that I would never. I mean, actually, it's kind of funny because we know Kurt a little bit, but if I found out that I bought an autograph copy of something and it had been signed by a quote unquote auto pen, I would be outraged. It is, that is,

I don't know, poor Bob Dylan, man, I don't know how he got sucked into that. But I got to tell you right now, I sign, and this is really true, whether it's a book plate or it's a book, I wouldn't dream of not signing it myself. And even if it looks fake, it's not fake. I would, I would never do that. To me, that would be simple fraud. I sign all my hamster homes books. I draw a picture myself and I sign him Pete Rose. Yeah, exactly. No, but seriously, I take this really seriously, so that's a good question. Yeah, I would never do that. To me, that's unethical.

Okay, keep going, keep going. Okay, is it ever okay to sever the relationship when a family member remains that committed to allowing and supporting the evil that exists in their political party? I'm not in favor of severing relationships. If somebody wants to have a

relationship with me, that's on them. And many people have done that, and I'll tell you, it's heartbreaking to me, honestly. because I love my friends, even if they disagree with me. I really love them, and our friendships are, at least to me, more important than whether we agree or disagree. So I don't think, you know, unless it's simply untenable, it's impossible. Sometimes we let friendships just erode because it becomes an argument.

But I think to the extent that you can, we're supposed to love people with whom we disagree. So if you have a relative that is sleeping with somebody outside of marriage, they have a different view. You know, that doesn't need to come up in conversation every day. You can still love them, and maybe they already know how you feel about that, or they know how you feel about certain politics. But I think always try to err on the side of love and inclusion when it comes to these things. If somebody wants to cancel you and wants to cut you off, that's on them.

But to the extent that I can, I would not do that. Yeah. You mentioned your cousin. I guess it's Juergen. Oh, this is question number six. Yeah. Yeah. Is it Juergen in your Miracles book?

I'm curious, are you still in contact with him? Is he happy not to be living under communism anymore? I don't think I mention my cousin Juergen. He's my second cousin in the Miracles book. I think it is in my book, Fish Out of Water. I think so too, yeah. And I remember I talk about when I was eight years old being in Germany and East Germany. and Juergen was, you know, living under the communist regime.

Of course, I visited many, many times, and I now know Juergen as an adult. And of course, all of my relatives who were in East Germany are very pleased that it is no longer communist East Germany. I love them. I'm in correspondence with many of them. They're just very dear to my heart. So if you read my book, Fish Out of Water, I am in touch. with them and I just I love them and I'm thrilled as they are thrilled no longer to be living under communism. We're out of time. We'll be back with the rest of the program. In case you haven't been

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Make the switch today and get a free month of service plus free activation. Patriotmobile.com slash Eric. That's Patriotmobile.com slash Eric or call 972 Patriot. Hey, folks. Welcome back. I continue my conversation now with Jenna Ellis. Jenna, at the end of hour one today, you brought up the golden triangle of freedom, which I have written about and spoken about everywhere I go.

As Guinness is the one who came up with the term. But you were going to talk. about that. Yeah, and your book, if we can keep it, has had a profound impact on my life. And I love that book. Thank you, honestly, because coming from you, that absolutely thrills me. I love that book, and I've read it probably a dozen times. I mean, it's amazing. And in that book, you articulate this principle that you and Osgenus also talked about, where the golden triangle of freedom requires virtue, which requires faith, which requires faith, which requires freedom and you keep going around. And as you were talking in the last hour about how you

are hopeful, you believe in our republic, you believe in principles of liberty and of being a good person in the sense of having honesty, integrity, all of those things, one of those things that Oz mentioned at the Socrates in the city, and I hope everyone goes back and listens to that conversation. It was amazing. He said virtue has to be taught. And this is where the Republican Party, like the Democrats and why I call it a uniparty, they are no longer standing for or teaching or modeling virtue. They are modeling political partisanship and corruption. And people think that somehow we just all instinctively know what it means to be a good person. We all do have the Word of God written in our hearts.

We know there's a measurable difference between right and wrong, good and evil. But we can only truly define that measurable difference when we have a standard and we have a contrast and a comparison and a perspective. And if we have the standard, that fixed point of reference, that is Jesus Christ the personification of truth and we have a moral objective premise, then we can define what it means to be virtuous. And our Republican Party, our political system, and then our culture as well, intentionally and purposefully, not just forgotten that, but they've intentionally and purposefully corrupted that. We no longer teach virtue, and we need to. Well, and it's interesting, you don't need to be a Christian to get virtue. This is the funny thing. I mean, when you're

talking about the classical Greeks understanding virtue and saying that virtue has to be taught, of course, that is a biblical worldview. They didn't know it was a biblical worldview because the ancient, the Greeks, the classical era in Greece, they were not familiar with the Bible. But truth is truth. Reality is reality. It's inescapable. So they were on to a number of big things, simply not knowing where it came from. Until Paul came on Mars Hill and said, let me tell you. And by then it was too late. Aristotle was dead. Dead, I tell you, for 300 years. But the point is that these concepts are vital. So virtue is, at the heart of freedom. It's not possible, all the founders said this, it's not possible to have

freedom, real freedom, without people who understand, at least to understand the importance of virtue. This is not to say that we can always be perfectly virtuous, but if you don't have a culture that talks about virtue and that tries to inculcate values into the younger generation, if that goes away, freedom goes away. There's no way around it. And so we're talking about really, really important things. And that's why, you know, when I, as I wake up to the idea that there are so many Republicans that don't believe any of this stuff, they don't, it's not on their radar. I don't know where they're coming from. So they may not be Marxists, but they are certainly helping the Marxists because they are not aware of what they themselves believe so that they can counter what it is

that the cultural Marxists are trying to bring into the culture. So they're really, They're useless. Right. And, you know, we often define the political spectrum as linear, and we have the far left and the far right. But I've started recently to describe it almost as a bell curve, because, or even circular, if you want to say that, the far left and the far right actually have way more in common

than they would like to realize, because totalitarianism and complete abject libertinism and anarchy have the same fundamental principle, which is every man does what's right in his own eyes, and is it just the sovereign military enforcer of totalitarianism, or is it the man of the house, my kingdom, get off my lawn, right? It's the same thing that man is in control in either of those two paradigms. But we have to describe virtue as a fixed moral premise, because where our culture has gotten so far off and the Republican Party has gotten so far off, is that if we have moral relativism and we suggest that good and virtue is up to every individual, then we can no

longer have a conversation about good and virtue, because then by what metric and by what standard should anyone tell me that I'm wrong? You are supposed to, in a relativistic society, affirm any life choice that I want. The libertarians would like to say, well, there's a non-aggression principle, but all they do is in an economic-based capitalist system. They can't even describe why capitalism should be better than the collective good of BLM. Right. So we have to go back, and the Republican Party has to find, not itself, they have to find God again. Well, it's interesting because getting back to Oz Guinness's formulation, the Golden Triangle of Freedom, you know, he says, okay, freedom requires virtue, virtue requires faith. Faith in terms of

requires freedom, which is to say, and this point needs to be made, faith is utterly essential to American freedom, but faith cannot be coerced. Faith cannot be legislated. So we're not talking about theocracy, because once you go in that direction, you've destroyed freedom. So there's a paradox at the heart of all of this, and we have to understand the paradox. If you don't understand this, folks, then you're going to be going in one direction or the other, and it all becomes authoritarian and it's anti-freedom. And so the reason I want to fight for Christian values being brought into the culture and into government, why? Because it will protect atheists. It will protect Muslims. In other words, these are the values that give people religious freedom,

whether they are Christians or not. So this is the irony, in a sense, is that you can't have these freedoms without a biblical view, but you can't coerce the biblical. view. You can't force the biblical view. So there's this conundrum. And so when people say, oh, you're just fighting for your Christian values. And, you know, I always say, listen, these Christian values will fight for you. That's the whole point, is that I don't know how you get freedom and you get any kind of a fair playing field unless you believe in these things. So. Well, and in a relativistic society, shouldn't they be saying, of course you're fighting for your truth and your values? And who would they then be to not affirm my truth. Right? So it's an inconsistent proposition anyway. But also to also

quote what Osganes said as well about the definition of freedom. He said it so profoundly at the patron's dinner where he said freedom is not the ability to do what we want. It's the freedom to have the power to do what we ought. Yeah. And I can't remember. I always forget who he's quoting. I was going to say it's not Lord Acton, but it's somebody from that period. But yes, to really understand what is freedom. Freedom is not negative freedom. Or maybe it was it Isaiah Berlin, the philosopher. Anyway, when Oz was at Cambridge in the 60s, Isaiah Berlin was one of the professors at Cambridge. But in any event, for us in America to understand what it means to be American means we have to understand what is freedom on our model. It's not

just license. It is, it's the freedom to do what we ought. It's, it's really, it's, it's vitally, vitally important. And it's not just negative rights. A lot of people under a natural law philosophy will articulate it as just negative rights as saying, you know, we, we have the freedom from government intrusion and so forth. But the founders expressed in the First Amendment, all of these positive rights as well, the free exercise of religious. is not just the ability to be, to have the government not compel me to go to church, but I have the freedom to go to the church of my choice to actively express my faith and to be actively involved.

I was going to say I'd go farther, right? In other words, what they were saying, the free exercise thereof means that it's not just that I can go to the church I choose. It's that when I leave that church on Sunday morning, I can take what I learned in that church into every sphere of life. I can exercise my faith in the public sphere. And the founders, I mean, part of the problem is that the founders all understood this. And it was so in some ways obvious and accepted that they didn't, they couldn't really foresee a future in which you'd have to make the case for this. They kind of assumed that, you know, when we're talking about religion, we're not

talking about Zoroastrianism. We're not talking about it. It was kind of an accepted Protestant Christian world and they knew that this was something that was central to the freedom that they were fighting to win and to keep. We're going to another break. I'm talking to Jenna Ellis, folks. You can find her at the Jenna Ellis Show.com. The Jenna Ellis Show.com. You can find me at Eric Mataxis.com and we'll be right back. Oh, what would I do if not for you? Winter would hold no spring. Tell me, Eric, why is relief factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain?

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Thank you. Folks, I'm back with Jenna Ellis. Jenna, you were just about to make a point. We went to a break. Yeah, and that is exactly what exercising means. And if we go back to Hebrews 11 and the Hall of Faith, what is faith in biblical terms? It's believing in the promises of God and acting on those promises, living your life in light of the promises and the new covenant in Jesus's blood and the Word of Truth. It is acting on faith.

And the founders did not expect us to only be Christians inside the four walls of the church. They expected that people of faith would be Christians 100% of the time. And so free exercise is exactly what you said, which is the ability to act and to positively act. I mean, even all of these expressions within the First Amendment is not just government restraint, but is also recognizing, not giving license to, but recognizing the inalienable right that our founders put in the declaration that comes from God himself, that we can speak, we can associate, we can act, we can publish in any forum everything about our faith. And so this also leads into what we were, what we teased in the first hour, which is this whole idea of faithful presence that Osganis also talked about. And I thought he articulated it so beautifully,

that Christians can't just say, you know, what it means to love our neighbor and love each other is to just sit back. and say, you know, I'm not going to offend you. I'm just going to sit back and be a good Christian. No, faith in the context of Hebrews 11, if you look at the history of who God showed us and said our faithful people, they acted on the promises of God and received a blessing for it. We have to be active Christians in our culture, in our families, in our churches, in every sphere. And by the way, when people say, you know, just loving my neighbor, it's just kind of like evangelical cliche. I want to spit. What does that mean?

If I fight against the slave trade, if I fight against corruption in government, if I fight in these political spheres and in the culture, I'm loving my neighbor because my neighbor is going to live in a world that is dominated either by corrupt people or that is going to be economic. economically crushed because of socialist or communist policies. So the idea that loving my neighbors only this little private thing, I think to myself, that's historically completely inaccurate. When William Wilberforce said, I am going to lead the battle in Parliament to abolish the slave trade, there were people who said to him, no, no, no, no, don't mix faith in politics. And he's thinking, what are you talking about? The Bible and my faith lead me to believe that it is my duty to use my political power, my influence, my voice to help people that I will never meet. And I will, they are my neighbor. And I'm going to fight for that. I'm

going to fight for justice. I'm going to fight, by the way, everybody in England at the time was participating in this wicked thing called the slave trade. Their economy was bolstered by it. And he loved his neighbor by being politically active. And so when somebody, you know, it's James Hunter at UVA wrote this book where he popularizes this idea of faithful presence. And, you know, there's something to it. And it's not completely wrongheaded. But it seems to me that it's an excuse for many people to say, well, I don't want to be, I don't want to win back the media or win back government. I'm thinking, folks, of course you want to be involved in those things because it will bless people. If you have a free and a fair media and if the truth, and if the truth, you know,

truth of God is getting out, you're going to bless people. That's how you love your neighbor. So the idea that, no, no, I'm just fighting for my thing. And I want, no, this is not culture warring. This is called loving your neighbor writ large, you know. And so I don't. And it's not my thing. It's God's thing. And we can't even define love without first defining truth and who the person of truth is. And so for all these people who are saying, oh, love your neighbor. And it's kind of this vague nebulous term. Well, Gavin, you know, used some defined love your neighbor as pro-choice and killing babies and pro-abortion in the state of California. And so if you leave this open to subjective definitions, then love no longer has any

meaning whatsoever. And so for all these people who would love to take these verses out of context, like my favorite in the sense of politics is when people say, well, the Bible says don't judge. And you're judging, Jen. I'm like, yeah, but what does the rest of Matthew 18 talk about? That's the entire process of how God arbitrates disputes among Christians and people who claim to be Christians. And of course we can look at fruits and we have to take the entire context of God. And what people are missing is that politics cannot be cabined and isolated by itself. If we are truly Christians in the world and not of the world, as the Apostle Paul articulated it, we start with the biblical worldview as the total truth, as my good friend Nancy Piercy said in her book.

And then from there, every single aspect of everything we do in life, culture, vocation, politics included, has to be started from a Christian worldview. And there is a Christian way to be engaged in all of those subject matters. And it's not an option. It's not just an opportunity. It is a command and it's a duty. Well, we've covered a lot here, but I was going to say it's fascinating. to me. Osgenus was yesterday on this program talking with me about this, again, this wrongheaded idea, which where people talk about, well, the first century Christians, like they're the model,

the first century Christians, because, you know, they're the first century Christians that's right at the beginning. And you think, yes, but they were under the Roman yoke. They did not have the freedoms that we have in America. We have been given a gift by God. We can govern ourselves. We can advocate for the truth. We can speak in the public sphere. We have a duty to do that. And so when people say, yes, but the early Christians, they didn't do that. And you think, yes, they didn't do it because they were living under Caesar. We have this tremendous gift, which I say is a duty to advocate. We're at a time. We'll be back. Another segment with Jenna Ellis. With the overturn of Roe v. Wade, Lots of companies are coming out saying they'll pay for employee abortion travel and expenses.

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So order now with promo code Eric at MyPillow.com. MyPillow.com. Promocode. Eric. Eric. Welcome back. I'm talking to Jenna Ellis. You can find her at the Jenna Ellis Show.com. So Jenna, where does this leave us? Where are we? What are we? We are here, Eric, in this moment that for everyone who believes in the truth of the Word of God and his ultimate sovereignty, it is no accident or mistake that you and I and everyone listening are born at the time we were. in the place that we are and with the inheritance of liberty and the current government system that we are combating. This is not the first time in world history that Christians have had to stand up with courage and listening to Oz Guinness and his life story is incredible. And what he went through with the reign of terror in China, all of that is nothing compared to

what we're going through. But at the same time, we've had it so easy. in this country, that what happens when people like Justice Ellen and Kagan say, sorry, you can't stand up for traditional marriage, otherwise your business is going to go under. Sorry, you can't even stand up for traditional marriage like Candice Cameron Bureurr, who is, there was just somebody who left the set of full house because she absolutely had to talk about traditional marriage, and I thought good for her. Because at what point did we ever decide that being Christians in our moment that God has given us to continue to put forward his truth and ultimately change hearts and minds and win souls

for Christ. So that's the purpose of man is to love and worship God continually forever and to bring everyone that we can to heaven. When did we decide as Americans that that may not cost us something? So even if we are like the early church that is under the reign and terror of Caesar, we need to stand up with courage and to continue to say, yes, marriage is an institution that can't be redefined by man. And sorry, Justice Kagan, you are wrong. And I'm going to continue to stand firm regardless of who tells me that I can't because I serve someone greater and who has the ultimate moral authority and the only truth that's

even worth talking about. Well, I mean, I really think this is a clarifying moment for the church in America where because it's costing some of us something and it's cost. you something and it's caused me something for sure. I know this. Maybe not much compared to people historically, of course. But the point is, we ought to rejoice. The scripture tells us to rejoice when all men speak evil of you or when this or that. Rejoice because you're actually getting to live out your faith in history. Because when you get to heaven, it's going to be too late. You don't you don't get to be courageous.

Now you're in heaven. This is where we get to live out our faith. And it's a beautiful opportunity. And God tells us over and over and over that this is why I called you to faith. This is why you exist is to live out that faith. And we've gotten this bad idea in the American Church that it shouldn't cost us anything. Everybody's going to like me. and if I'm really likable, more people will want.

Well, no. The love your neighbor, squiddiness. Yeah, and this doesn't mean that, you know, that we should all not want to be liked. But the point is at some point, you will maybe have someone disagree with you. And listen, if you're not nasty and vicious, that can be a good thing.

That can lead people to think. I remember it happened to me. My dear friend Ed Tuttle, who led me to faith back at, Union Carbide. I remember him saying a couple of things that bothered me at the time. But here I am, you know, in other words, that he was not vicious or whatever, but he shared some things that I disagreed with. And I think that's going to happen, folks. If you love somebody, sometimes you're going to say something that's true. And they may have to go away and think about it for five minutes or 10 minutes or a year or 10 years, but you know, it's in God's hands. But Jesus said, don't be surprised when the world

hates you because they hated me first. And so when we're talking with Christians, with other Christians, we can hope that they will be exhorted and take that exhortation and we've won our brother. But when we're talking to people who don't have Christ, we shouldn't be surprised when they hate us. I mean, Winston Churchill said, if you don't have any enemies, you never stood for anything in your life. And so this is our moment. And, you know, as you were speaking, Eric, I was reminded in college. I listened to probably for the first time, I guess, and I don't know if it was a recent song or not at the time, but the song by Switchfoot that says, this is your life. Are you who you want to be? And that changed my perspective on my life at the time because I thought, what a

profound question. And if this is our moment for the Lord, am I who I want to be for him? Do I have my soul identity in Christ? Do I know where I'm spending eternal? have I done everything today for the Lord that I possibly can? Those are the only questions, ultimately the matter. Who do I and who do you say that Jesus is? That's all that matters. And the truth will come out. I mean, this is the thing people. We have to remember. God decides what's right and wrong. And if you stand for the truth, you will eventually be exonerated. It might not be till you get to see him face to face. But the point is, you know, you know, know that God wins, that truth wins, and you need to worry about what he thinks and about what he

says, because that's the ultimate reality. You know, it's kind of like who holds the ultimate purse strings. You're going to be with him for eternity. You need to worry about what he thinks, about what you're saying or doing or not saying or doing. But that's called reality. That's the reality in which we live. And I think that there's some people that think, well, I don't know. I don't I'm thinking we get to live out our faith and there's something beautiful. So I say it because I think people are missing this beautiful opportunity by living in these half measures and being afraid. And I think, you know, you were talking earlier about Ronda Santis.

I mean, people are looking for leadership. And I think that there are a lot of people that don't believe in the God that we believe in. But when they see us living out our faith and talking about truth, there are many people that are attracted to that and going, you know, I didn't know Christians could ever be brave. I've only met mealy-mouthed Christians that were so nice that I had no use for them. And I think there's something beautiful about it. A hundred percent. Look at our founders who said with firm reliance on the supreme judge of the universe for the

rectitude of our intentions, we mutually pledge our very lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. How can we do any less in advocating for truth in this great nation? What a place to end. Jenna Ellis, my friend. Thank you. I hope people go to the Jenna Ellis Show.com. And, you know, just thrilled to have you in the studio. Thank you.

Always love it, Eric. Thank you. Alvin, have you done your Christmas shopping yet? I know. I have not. Neither have I. But here's the thing. Most people listening to us right now, actually they haven't done their Christmas shopping.

No. think that the idea will just come to them. That's what happens to me, and then the idea doesn't come to me. So I want to make a suggestion for Christmas gifts. If you go to any of our websites, okay, if you go to my website, Eric Mataxis.com, you can go to Socrates in the city.com. You can go to Metaxistalkis talk.com. There are a number of lovely gifts there. Most of my books are available. If you want an autograph copy, that always makes a very special gift. You can get those at Socratesandciti.com. You can get those at Metaxistock.com. And if you go to my store.com or my pillow.com and you use the code Eric, you get a special

discount. You help this program. You help keep us on the air. And you help our friend, Lendell, who's a hero, and you're buying American-made products. That's my store.com and my pillow.com, if you use the code Eric, and tell your friends to use the code, Eric, please, instead of using whatever, I don't know, generic code that's floating around out there. But these all would make terrific places to find Christmas gifts that have some meaning. But the ultimate meaning would be if you... If you were to go to metaxistalk.com and click on the banner at the top of the page,

and you could help free a slave from literal slavery in Southern Sudan. As you know, radical Muslims, they don't have a biblical worldview. They think slavery is a good thing, and they've enslaved Christians, and they persecute them, and they do horrible things, and these people are enslaved while we're talking right now. you can participate with Christian Solidarity International in freeing these slaves. And whatever you give goes toward that. I think that is the ultimate Christmas gift.

It is such a beautiful thing. It's a way of doing something that is extraordinary and meaningful in a transcendent way. It's not just a gift. So whatever you're inclined to do, whatever you're inclined to give, $250 is the amount that frees a slave from slavery. So if you can give that amount, you can actually tell whoever you're giving this gift to. We have freed a slave, a human being. In your name, we gave this gift. This is our gift to you. And obviously, it's tax deductible. You have to go to metaxis talk.com and you can see the banner. I'll give you the phone number in a minute if you prefer to call. But

the idea that we get to do this, folks, Christian Solidarity International, they're involved in doing this. It's an astonishing thing that they're there doing this, that they can do this and that they've made it possible. This doesn't just free a slave from slavery, but it gets this person set up in a life of freedom. So they get all kinds of things. And Kevin McCullough has been on this program explaining what they get. They get all kinds of stuff to set them up in a life of freedom. It's just, it's nearly impossible to comprehend that this is happening and that we get to be a part of it. So I want to tell you, do not miss this, folks. It's very rare you get an opportunity to do an unmitigated good, a glorious, glorious thing, whatever it is that you give.

Some people can give a lot of money. If somebody can give a gift of $10,000, it would be my honor to spend an evening with you, whatever you want to do. You want to put together a group of people or just two or three of us or whatever it is, either in New York or when I come to your neck of the woods. But you have to go to metastashton.com. the phone number before we go, please write it down. 888 253-3522. 888-253-3522. Do not miss this, metaxis talk.com.