The Eric Metaxas Show - Jennifer Lahl

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

"The Detransition Diaries" is a new book discussing the dangers of medicine being used to transition kids to another sex. Jennifer Lahl is the author and she joins to break it all down. 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's LegacyPMinvestments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. It's the show featuring Go-Go-Go the chimp. Nothing like a chimp to liven up the radio show. Easy there. Go-go, go, go. Go-go. No, go, go. Folks, welcome to Hour 2. I continue my conversation with Scott Phelps, who's the executive director of the abstinence and marriage education partnership. And, you know, it's funny, Scott, we're talking about some really basic stuff.

But the culture has gone so crazy over the decades. I mean, the most normal thing in the world is for young men and young women to have sexual urges, to have romantic longings and to say, I want to find that person that God would have me unite with in marriage for life. And we want to have children. We want to raise a family. It's so beautiful and it's so natural. And that message has been denigrated and denigrated and denigrated and denigrated, mocked. As though that's for Robs.

What you ought to do is just have sex with as many people as you can. Do whatever you want. And yeah, maybe at some point get married. But who even cares? It's just become so confusing for so many people. And, you know, you know and I know and many people know, marriage is God's plan for most people. Sex within marriage is always God's plan for sex. But what I even find actually is many evangelicals, many people who say, oh, I'm an evangelical Christian, I love Jesus, they talk about kids as though that's an option.

Even though they're married, they kind of act like, well, we didn't want to have kids till. you know, we were financially more secure and, you know, so 10 years into our marriage, we decide to have kids. And I think that even divorcing the idea of kids from marriage, people think like, well, we want to have time together before we have a family. Even that is, it can be selfish and it can actually lead to its own problem. So we're talking about God's moral order, this natural order, and we've gotten very far from it. And so even within the church, I find that people act like, you know, contraception, you know, choosing how many kids I want to have or whatever. They've really, I guess my point is they've separated marriage and sex from family. They've kind of acted like these are different things.

Well, so demographic winter is a real thing that we're concerned about, right? In fact, the three things that really animate our work are number one, the non-marital birth rate at 40%. So 40% of American children born outside the context of a marriage relationship. That's number one. Number two is marriage rates are an all-time low. We have continuing decline in the marriage rates. And then number three, the declining fertility rates. Those three things are what I call unsustainable trends.

Now, look, I could go on for an hour or more about what's wrong with sex education, what our kids are being exposed to. You can watch lives of TikTok. You can see what's going on in our school classrooms. The question is, what do we do about it? What's the solution? And our program is all about that. It's about educating a new generation of American youth. We've reached over two million kids in the years that we've been doing this now. This is our 20th anniversary. And we have been quietly and systematically helping young people across America understand the benefits of marriage and family. And Eric, I've got to tell you, the response on the part of kids when they hear this message is over the moon. Here's what a girl in a Chicago public school said some years ago when we presented this message. She said this. I think saving sex for marriage is a great idea.

I never thought of that before. That's what I want to do. Ding, ding, ding, ding. This girl represents a generation of young people who have not rejected the message of absence waiting until marriage. They've never heard it. And what we want to do is give it to them clear. We believe that this message ought to be the primary message taught in health class. in public schools, Christian schools, Catholic schools, private schools, all over America.

Kids should be learning. Marriage is good. It's the cornerstone of culture. This year we're launching the national marriage campaign to help young people understand and appreciate why marriage matters and why it's good for you, good for your spouse, good for your children, good for your community, and good for the culture. We need to teach this well to our kids. That's what we're all about. And I think we need to send the message to young women that, um,

If a young man wants to sleep with you, but he hasn't proposed marriage to you, he doesn't love you. That's right. He doesn't value you. Why would you give something sacred? Something meant for the man who would die for you, who would give you his whole life. It's meant for him, for only that kind of a man. Why would you give it to someone who is nothing like that man? Why would you give it to somebody who is effectively using you, even though he may not even himself be aware of that?

This is a pretty basic thing. If somebody is not offering you his whole life, he is not worthy of you to the extent that you would sleep with him. It's an amazing thing that we don't talk about that anymore. That's right. And what we want to help young people understand is that you are valuable and special and beautiful and worth waiting for. And we want to help them understand not that sex is a bad thing. to be avoided, but a beautiful, wonderful thing to be cherished and treasured and reserved. And look, what we value, we protect, right? And so we put our money in a safe or a vault and we block it and we

protect it. And your sexuality is the same thing. It's rare. It's beautiful. It's valuable. And these are the concepts and principles that we're teaching young people all across America that you need to understand the beauty and the value of marriage and why waiting for it is so important. If people are listening right now and they say, I want to find you, Scott Phelps, and I want to find the abstinence and marriage education partnership online, where can people go? They can go to national marriage campaign.com, national marriage campaign.com, and they can join the movement. That's exactly what we do.

We actually equip teachers, pastors, parents to teach these things to their kids. We're not dealing directly with kids as much as we are adults. And very much along the lines, like I said, of your book, which I thought was fantastic, it's calling us off of the sidelines and into the challenges in front of us to rescue a generation of American youth that need to be rescued from the crazy that's happening to them in our culture. Well, and I want to be clear again, you know, the older I get the more sense this makes to me that God created us for marriage and sex within marriage. And there's something about that. The idea of experiencing sex outside of marriage, I would actually argue that outside of marriage,

it is not really genuine sex, that there's something missing. It's a completely different experience. And you're really talking about it's an oninistic, solipsistic experience outside of marriage, even though another person is involved. It's simply not the same as when two people who have given themselves to each other in marriage for life, it's an extraordinarily different thing when you take it out of that context. It's broken. There's a brokenness there.

It's sad. And I also think, too, about what I mentioned earlier is that the idea of only knowing sex through your spouse. there's something amazing about that. There's something beautiful about that. That's God's intention. And we live in a culture just suffused with sexual imagery, and it's really destroyed that. And it's important for us to understand this is God's plan.

This is God's first best for us. And it's not meant to prevent us from having fun or enjoying us. On the contrary, it's meant to bless us. We've got to leave it there. Folks, go to national marriagecampaign.com. National Marriage Campaign.com. Excellent. Thank you, Eric. making a difference, witness the fearless advocacy of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

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or large, with a few clicks. visit legacy pm investments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool they've added. LegacyPm.investments.com. Legacy pm investments.com. Check it out. Hey there, folks. As you know, on this program, books kind of arrive in the office. And sometimes I see when I go, ooh, ooh, I cannot wait to talk to this author about this book. Right now I have as my.

guest, Dr. Jennifer, Wall, who, did I say wall? I meant law. Rhymes with the wall. Dr. Jennifer. And I'm not a doctor. Law. Yes. I was just speaking to a doctor, so I'm confused. But you were, just to be clear, you spent 25 years in pediatric nursing, senior level hospital management. That's your background. But you've written a book. When I saw this book, I said, I can't wait. It's called the detransition diaries. Jennifer, tell us what is the

thesis of this book before we get into the guts of it here? Well, the thesis is that medicine has gone terribly sideways, and we are ruining young people, young adults, children's bodies by telling them that they were born in the wrong body, and that

medicine can save the day for them. And that's a thing. fact, detransition, of course, we're talking, ladies and gentlemen, about the idea that people are lured into thinking they're in the wrong body, which of course is insane. You can't be in the wrong body. It's the body God gave you. But so they get into this transition thing. They do all kinds of things. All kinds of things are done to them, some chemical, some surgical, horrible things and then they realize, oh, maybe not. Maybe this was a mistake. Maybe I was misinformed. Maybe I was lied to. Maybe I was manipulated. And then they say, well, I'd like to go back to what I was,

to what I am meant to be. And that's not so easy. That's called detransitioning. So, Jennifer, you made a documentary, you've made many documentary films, but you made a documentary film with the same title documentary, Detransition Diaries, Saving Our Sisters. That came out a couple of years ago? Yeah, it came out about a year and a half ago. And it focuses only on young women who get caught up in what I call this gender ideology cult. And when we were in production of that film, actually Ignatius Press, approached me and said, hey, would you be willing to write a book, the Detransition Diaries book?

And we said, of course. And we just two months ago released The Lost Boys, which is solely focused on. young men who transitioned and transitioned. And then Ignatius Press asked us to add a couple of stories from men. So the book is based on two films. And, you know, you've written books. You know that a book allows you to flesh out a lot more ideas than you can in a 45-minute documentary film. So we were very happy my co-author, Callie Fell.

She and I both are nurses. So we looked through the lens of medical ethics. And we talk about what happened in Nazi Germany and what happened with the lobotomy studies and what happened with Tuskegee and what happened with forced sterilization across the United States and how medicine has a sorted path of going off the do no harm path. It's rarely, rarely, rarely, rarely talked about. But it's vital for us to know that oftentimes medicine has gotten things dramatic. wrong. You mentioned a few classic examples of that. These are horror stories, ladies and gentlemen. You know, when you're told to trust the science, your doctor knows best, maybe and maybe not. And how many women were prescribed thalidomide when I was born, roughly speaking, you know,

in the early 60s, thalidomide was the wonder drug prescribed to innumerable women for morning sickness. Here, just take this. What resulted is kind of a nightmare. And this was doctors doing this. You just mentioned lobotomies. That was the miracle surgery. Are you having some problems? Lobotomies will solve it.

It's hard for us even, I mean, people don't typically talk about this anymore, but all of these horror stories, and you mentioned some others, it's kind of amazing that people trust doctors to the extent that they're willing to let them do these things, which we now know were, you know. effectively nightmares. Yeah, and, you know, we could have added in the COVID and the mismanagement and the handling of the pandemic as well when we were all being told that we had to do these certain things to protect our health, to save lives. So I think this, you know, this transition ideological

movement is just another one of those points in time. I am encouraged because I think we will see this already starting to crumble. The House of Cards is falling. We, you know, we recounts in the book, The Whistleblowers, most recently, another physician down in Texas. We recounts the growing number of lawsuits. I live in California. We have three lawsuits right now filed against Kaiser Permanenten from D-Transitioners who feel like they were not given proper informed consent. I guess people keep wondering who will be held accountable. To me, it's the horror.

In other words, the idea that doctors are prescribing things, I have a, a mild example of this in my own life. A doctor prescribed, oh, you need something to sleep with. No, don't take Ambien. Here, take this. Take clonopin or clonazepan or whatever. Here, just, here, take this. Here, take more, take more, take more.

And, you know, a couple of years into it, some other doctor says, well, I don't think you should be on this. You probably should get off this. And by the way, it's very, very hard to get off this. And you say, excuse me, what? It's very hard. What do you mean? Oh, yeah.

Real, it's very addictive. Well, the doctor never told me that. it's astonishing to any of us who have trusted doctors when you realize that they're not just fallible, they're not just flawed, but that many of them are sloppy, they're motivated by greed, they're not thinking about the patients the way they ought to. And, you know, what I just shared is a very mild example of that, and you're sharing some much more dramatic examples of that. But it's a chilling thing, I think, for people to wake up to the idea that what I've always taken from, granted that i could trust my doctor is not something that i ought to probably take for granted that's

that to me is very difficult yeah and i think you know you ask who's going to be held to account for this i think a lot of this is going to lay at the feet of the medical um professional bodies american academy of pediatrics is the ones of top down or telling if you practice pediatrics in the united states this is the standard of care we block puberty we put boys on estrogen We put girls on testosterone, the American Endocrine Society, you know, they will be held to count. Because these are the standards of care. This is how we treat children that have gender dysphoria versus good mental health, which is what most of these children need or young adults. They need serious mental health assessments and counseling.

So in the book, you tell the stories of five young women and five young men who basically have been through transitioning and then decided this is a mistake. what happens after that? Yeah, and actually it's two young men in the book, but five women. Yeah, we talk about their own short and long-term health complications. You know, they often refer to themselves as patients for life. You know, once you radically, you know, alter male genitalia or female genitalia, you know, you don't have to be a medical doctor to just imagine how complicated that is and how many problems can arise out of that.

Chloe Cole said in the book, you know, she was a teenager. when she had double mastectomy. You know, a mastectomy surgery done for trans care is way different than a mastectomy done on a woman with breast cancer. So these women will never be able to breastfeed if they go on and have, you know, children. That is if their fertility hasn't been ruined. You know, these young people are offered fertility preservation. We can freeze and make your eggs and sperm.

So once we destroy your fertility through cross-sex hormones and surgeries, you can maybe later go on and have, you know, your own genetically related children. So it's just, you know, funneling one more pie in the sky. This will help you. This will help you do this. Dr. Knows Best. Well, the book is titled Detransition Diaries. So these are real stories.

And, of course, these are just a few of the stories that are out there. How did you find these young women and these young men and get them to tell their stories? Yeah, I get asked that a lot. And actually, I found most of them on social media. These are the brave, courageous detransitioners that are speaking out. There's countless more that are under the radar because they see what happens when you, you know, you dare to say that you have regret or, you know, this wasn't a good decision for you. So, you know, they're on X. They're on Instagram.

Then we approach, and we do a pre-interview. We say, this is what we're about. And would you like to, you know, be in our film or let us tell your story in our book? And then we're off and running. Well, I guess these are, you know, how do I put it, you know, these are a few stories. I said that earlier. It's hard to believe how many are out there who have stories like this. And it's important that we hear them and that we learn from them.

But I want to just go back to the idea of who will be held to account. I mean, it seems to me that there are already lawsuits, that the doctors who have done these things are, are culpable and that if this had happened to me or to one of my children, it seems to me that I would want to do something about it. I wouldn't just say, well, we made some mistakes or whatever, but for the sake of others to whom this might happen, you'd want to make, you'd want to tell the story and you'd want to make sure that people are held to account. We're going to go to a break. We'll be right back. We're talking to Jennifer Wall. The book is Detransition Diaries. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider.

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The book is Detransition. Diaries and my guest is Jennifer Law. Jennifer, I was just asking, you know, about the folks that have experienced this. How do they, I mean, did you talk to any who are taking legal action? Because it seems to me that that might be one way to scare the medical establishment away from leaping ahead with this kind of surgery, these kind of surgeries and actions. Yeah, I mean, Chloe Cole's story is included in the book, The De Transition Diaries, and, you know, her lawsuit is suing Kaiser Permanente as a, you know, a medical hospital. It's suing the psychiatrist because she had had had a psychiatric evaluation that said,

yes, this young teenage girl is in, you know, her right mind in penitence, having a double mastectomy. And she's suing her physician who prescribed, you know, testosterone for her and recommend the surgery. So, you know, that's, you know, just one of many examples. There's quite a few women who are suing because of, you know, they had a 15-minute consultation on Zoom and they got a letter permission to go go have a double mastectomy. You know, it's outrageous. What do we make of this? I mean, I think, again, for somebody like me, just looking at a common sense perspective, you know this is nonsense. I mean, who 10 minutes ago decided that this was even a thing? Who

Who made that decision that doctors would suddenly be going along with this, that they would be saying like, oh, yes, yes. Like, who, who, you know, there is no science here. So how dare they proceed as though this is science? You know, it's one thing to discover a cure for cancer and say, hey, we're all in. And so you've got cancer, but guess what? There's a new drug. So, yep, here you go. And we're not dealing with science.

We're dealing with something that's utterly subjective. It seems like a kind of madness, but you expect doctors not to go along with madness, not to go along with trends, but to go along with science. So what science would need these doctors and the medical establishment to go along with this, unless it is simply pure greed, I can get away with this, I can make money. What is happening? Well, it's pseudoscience. It's definitely not science.

You know, none of this, especially as it relates to children, we don't have data. We haven't been, you know, chopping off the breast of young women, you know, and have like sample sizes of thousands of women who then went on and regretted it. You know, I, again, I lay the blame at the American Academy of Pediatrics, the professional governing bodies over medicine in the United States, the, you know, the endocrine society, those kinds of groups that give the orders of this is how pediatricians are going to practice pediatrics in the United States. These are the standards of care. Now, these standards of care are not very. based on any science, like you said.

So, you know, there's some bad actors. There's some bad actors. I mean, look at our White House. You know, we have men parading around in dresses that think this is okay. We have men invading women's spaces in prisons. We have men competing and taking trophies away from, you know, athletes like Riley Gates. You know, these are some bad actors that have wiggled their way into academia and medicine and, you know, media. And, you know, honestly, I think it's not, I don't want to put on my tinfoil hat, but I think this is a calculated.

We're going to destroy children. We're going to destroy the natural family. And we're going to make everybody celebrate it like what we saw on Easter Sunday with, you know, the White House, you know, announcing that it was Trans-Visibility Awareness Day. Which is completely made up nonsense. I mean, I think we have to say it over and over and over and over and over. This is nonsense. This is insanity. I mean, if someone, you know, if you live in a small town and there's a crazy person in town, a guy who wears women's clothing sometimes, you just say, well, you feel sorry for this person. This person is crazy. The idea that people who have mental issues are being exploited to create this movement, but that it then moves actually into the medical establishment, it seems like something.

out of some dystopian novel. This is some kind of nightmare. I mean, the, so my question ultimately is always, will they be held to account? In other words, when you're talking about these, these medical bodies that we look to as authorities, do you suppose that there is any reckoning happening within any of these bodies? I think there will be, and we, we speak to this.

in the book when we look at the historical bad moments in medical history. You know, what happened under the Tuskegee studies, which was the studies that looked at black African-American men in syphilis. What happened with the mass sterilization? You know, Clinton, you know, launched a big huge fund to give reparations. You know, Gavin Newsom, my governor, you know, has put into law a reparations fund for people in the state of California that were involuntary. involuntarily sterilized. How many decades later, Jennifer? How many decades later?

But I do think this particular thing that we're dealing with right now in the trans cult, I think the fuse is much shorter. You know, we already see states that are blocking this, that are, you know, they're passing legislation that says we can't do this. The state of Florida was beautiful. All the medical associations in Florida said this is not how medicine is going to be practiced in Florida. I mean, parents have had it. You come after parents' kids and you threaten that we're going to take your children away

if you won't affirm them in their new sexual identity or gender identity. I mean, parents have had it. Well, again, I think we have to remain sane. We have to say over and over again, this is insanity. And no, you're not crazy to think that this is crazy. This is crazy. It's worse than merely crazy. It's evil.

We're talking to Jennifer Loll. L-A-H-L, folks. You've got to spell it so that you can get the book. L-A-H-L-A-H-L. Jennifer Lahl. The book is Detransition Diaries. We'll be right back. You might have heard Mike Lindell and My Pillo no longer have the support of their box stores or shopping channels the way they used to. Yes, it's because of cancel culture. But as a result, they get to pass the savings on to you directly by having a $25 extravaganza. When Mike started My Pillow, it was just a one-product company. With the help of his dedicated employees, they now have hundreds of products, some you may not even know about. To get the word out, I want to invite my listeners to check out their $25

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Back, I'm talking to Jennifer Law, L-A-H-L. The book is D-Transition Diaries. Jennifer, you said that you've made two documentary films, and from these films you've put this book together. So what are the names of the two films and where can people get them? Because I think it's important that people know that. Yeah, the detransitioned Diaries, Saving Our Sisters, and the most recent one is the lost boys searching for manhood, and they're on the Center for Bioethics and Culture Network.

YouTube channel, they're free to watch. They're in many, many languages, so people can watch the films there. The Center for Bioethics and Culture, folks, write this down. The Center for Bioethics and Culture, you have a YouTube channel so people can watch these for free, you said. Yeah. Okay. So one of them is called detransition Diaries, Saving Our Sisters, and the other one is? The Lost Boys, Searching for Manhood. So, you know, you and I are both Christians, and we believe that the Bible says we're made in God's image, male and female. It's pretty straightforward. But you don't need to be a Christian to know that that's true. People around the world from the beginning of time have known this is true. Do you at any point in the book, Detransition Diaries, talk about the history of how it came to be that the medical establishment could be such rubs that they would allow greed to carry them away into this madness to be purveyors of this kind of radical, surgical, medical madness?

How did that begin? How did we get here? We do lay some stepping stones historically. We begin with Harry Benjamin, who was a clap of a doctor who came to the United States. We actually did the sexual reassignment surgery on Christine Jorgensen. Okay, that's in the 1950s. I mean, I'm old enough to remember angrily. I mean, I wasn't alive in the 50s.

But that was the big one, Christine Jorgensen. And that, I mean, that made tons of news. But it didn't like launch a trend or, anything like that. But can you talk a little bit about Christine Dorgensen? Well, yeah, he was a man. You know, and he thought he was a woman and he had the first, you know, sexual reassignment surgery in the United States. So he had, you know, his male genitalia removed and had what they called the neo-vigina. But, you know, he was quickly followed by, you know, Alfred Kinsey, and Kinsey came out with the Kinsey reports. And he was a real pervert that was trying to blur

men and women and children, and then there was John Money at Johns Hopkins, where they, you know, tried to put in a gender clinic. So there are several big, you know, physicians along the way and institutions that were buying into the notion that if people have this kind of gender dysphoria, body dysmorphia, distress, the way to treat them is through surgical and medical intervention. I remember in the 70s, the famous case of Dr. Renee Richards, a man who wanted to be a woman and then, I mean, who played tennis as a woman. Do you remember this case? I do. I do. I mean, it's just funny because these were the most bizarre one-offs and you'd kind of look at it and then you just move on. But it is, It's a staggering thing.

And I think our hearts break for somebody who would be so confused that they would be willing to do this or that they would actually believe this. Of course, most recently, we have Bruce Jenner, who tells the world that I'm now going to be Caitlin Jenner and Annie Leibovitz does a photo shoot for Vanity Fair. That's when this all kind of became a thing. You know, he led the way. Bruce Jenner led the way. and this moved from being a one-off crazy fringe thing into something more. So I guess it's quite recently that this became the trend that it is. Yeah, and there's so many factors.

And when they look at especially young girls, it's a, they call it a social contagion. You know, our young people today, you know, parents listening in, keep your kids off the internet. You know, watch what they're looking. You know, the analytics, Chloe Cole talked about. how she had access to horrific pornography as a nine-year-old. And when you watch something online, the algorithms say, well, we're going to show you more of this. You watch that.

And these kids are in these rabbit holes on Tumblr and Reddit and Instagram, all these social media influencers who tell them, you're born in the wrong body. That's the way you feel that way. So a lot of this is within our control, especially when it's our children and we're parents. Now, I understand a lot of parents are worried about being canceled or being outed in their communities because they're called haters or transphobes, all the names that they get called. But not on our watch. Not on our watch.

Well, again, I mean, it just shows you how, I don't know, how many people, they're just so confused that they would allow something, you know, to just, you're called a word. It's a made up word. I mean, all these words are made up, you know, trans athletes, trans kids. These are completely invented concepts. And then if you go against it, you're called a transphobe. And that's all it takes for a lot of parents who don't know who they are or what they believe. They just kind of go going with the crowd. What does the crowd say?

What are the adults in my community say? And I'm just going to go along with that because I don't want to be ostracized. You know, that's how Nazi Germany happened. is where people are kind of looking around, I don't know what I believe. But if I say this, I'll get in trouble. That's what allows this to happen, that parents have allowed these ideas to come in. And of course, you know, we need to set the record straight. And it's part of what you're doing with this book and with these documentaries.

But it is amazing to me to hear you talk about this and to realize that this is, I mean, history is going to, if we survive, it's going to write about this period. This is a level of madness that we've certainly not seen in the West. I mean, apart from what happened in Germany in the 30s and 40s, we've not seen this in America, anything quite like this. Yeah, I agree. It's going to be an ugly chapter that people, you know, 20, 30, 40 years from now will be writing going, what were people thinking?

You know, in back, we started with, you know, medicine and the role of medicine. And, you know, you can't treat people that show up in emergency room without the first question being, are you a man or a woman? How do you even know what you're looking for if you're, you've got this man that presents as a woman all dressed up like a woman? And you think, oh, maybe they have an ectopic pregnancy. And then you realize, well, this is a man. So, you know, it's this absurd that, you know, the hard sciences of medicine. And, you know, in Nazi Germany, we talk about the fact that the physicians who weren't following along with the,

third right. They were quickly out of fashion. And so they thought, well, we want to be the cool people. We want to be in the crowd. This is always the case. We'll be right back. Final segment. I'm talking to Jennifer Loll and the book, D-Transition Diaries. Welcome back. My guest is Jennifer L-A-H-L. The book is D-Transition Diaries. There are two films. Also, you can see them at the Center for Bioethics and Culture YouTube page, Center for Bioethics and Culture. And Jennifer, you're the founder and former president of the Center for Bioethics and Culture.

What led you to do that? I know that you were in the medical world for a long time, but what led you to found the Center for Bioethics and Culture? I was just really worried with the direction of medicine was going. I saw this new novel technology, biotechnology is coming down the pike, And I thought, you know, just because we can do something, should we do something. And because I was in pediatrics, you know, pediatric is one area, not the only area, where you're always pushing the envelope.

You know, you get a baby that was born at 27 weeks and 26 weeks and 25 weeks, and we got this new machine and artificial wounds were coming and, you know, and organ transplants and cloning. So I went back to graduate school and studied biorex and founded the center as part of my graduate study. And I know today you're visiting us from Rome, the Eternal City, but where are you normally? Where is the Center for Bioethics and Culture located? Yeah, we're in the San Francisco Bay Area. Somebody's got to be out there. Yes. Well, look, I'm in New York, so I get it.

Today I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, and you're in Rome, but we live in other places. Well, I guess I just want to encourage people. to get copies of this book, Detransition Diaries, because these stories need to be told. And the sooner, the better that people are familiar with these stories. What's the name of the young woman? You mentioned Cole. Chloe.

Chloe. She's in the documentary that we made called Letter to the American Church. She's giving her testimony. I believe it's in front of Congress. And when you see young men or young women talking about what has happened to them, it changes things. when you actually hear the stories of people, which is why I hope people will watch these films at your website

or at the YouTube page or Center by Ethics and Culture and get the book Detransition Diaries, because we have to hear these stories. Otherwise, it's just something in the news. I have a friend, we haven't talked in a long time, but I know he's been through this with a daughter. And, you know, he seems to me, was gaslit into going along with this. I think a lot of parents are persuaded that they've got to go along with this.

If you don't go along with this, your kid will kill himself or herself, and therefore, you have no choice. And so it's got to be very, very hard on parents like this who are being confronted with this. Yeah, and Chloe is a classic example. You know, here with their teenage daughter and the doctor's saying, if you don't let her have a mastectomy, she's going to kill herself. What parent is going to stand there with a physician authority in saying, They, you know, a lot of times they crumble.

They cave because they don't want their child to harm themselves. It's such a lie. It's an evil pernicious lie that it's thrown out there. Well, I mean, you see this all the time. They used to say this, you know, with, if you don't affirm your kid who's come out as gay, they'll kill themselves. You know, gay youth are killing themselves. They always say this. They always say this to silence opposition and to force you to go along with something, which you know is wrong.

but when life is at stake, and look, they did it with COVID. If you don't do this, people will die. They didn't talk about all the people who died if you went along with it. They don't talk about that. So it's really just used as a cudgel to silence people. And that's, of course, happening right now

with the transgender madness. So, well, Jennifer, thanks for being my guest. I want to encourage people. The book is Detransition Diaries. D-transition Diaries and the documentaries are, you can find them at the Center for Bioethics and Culture YouTube page. I think it's vital that people check this out if they can. So Jennifer, thank you so much. Thank you, Eric.