The Eric Metaxas Show - Jeremiah Johnston

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Author Jeremiah Johnston joins to discuss his book Body of Proof: The 7 Best Reasons to Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus--and Why It Matters Today

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready to listen to a man of grace, sophistication, integrity, and whimsy? Well, so are we. But until such a man shows up, please welcome Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Metaxe show. Today I'll be playing the role of Eric Metaxis, who is the host of the Eric Metaxis show. Typically, he interviews guests. For example, today, he's interviewing Jeremiah Johnson, who lives in Dallas. Jeremiah, welcome back. Eric, it's great to see you. Last time we were together, we were in London, though, weren't we? We bumped into each other at the British Museum. Remember that? I will never forget it. First of all, the last time I saw you was probably in Nashville more recently. Yeah, that's true.

I was in London for a few days, and I thought I wrote a book called Is Atheism Dead? The middle part of it is all about archaeology. My favorite book of yours, by the way, if I may say. Yes, that book is legit. I loved that book. Wow. Well, thank you very much. I mean, it's apologetics, and it's called Is Atheism Dead.

So the first part is faith in science. The second part is archaeology. And one of the stories that I tell in there is about the black obelisk. of Shalman Azar. And I remember thinking like, I'm in London, I could actually go see this thing. I could actually go to it and I'm going to drag my wife and daughter. I'm going to freak out. I'm going to explain it to them. I can't wait to do it. And if you have a copy of my book is Atheism Dead, whoever's listening, that chapter, it's an amazing story. It is. It is.

It's about the really the first time that the Bible was linked to archaeology. They discovered this thing and they're like, holy cow, what it depicts in 1850, that's in the Bible. So it's the first time that you have corroboration from archaeology. So I remember, this again, not quite a year ago, last July, I'm in the British Museum standing in front of this thing. And I'm explaining it to my wife and daughter. I'm just freaking. I said, this is in my book, is atheism dead. This is, this is it. This is it right here, like right in front of us. This is the thing. And I look over and I see Pastor Jack Graham of Prestonwood, I said, what the heck? Like, where am I? Where am I? And then you're right on my other side. I said, this is, we're reading the same line of King Jayhu and the black obelisk.

I mean, to see you guys in the British Museum was just, I mean, look, you could be in the same museum as somebody and not see them. So the fact we're in the same city, in the same museum, and we happen to be standing in front of the same obelisk at the same time really was amazing. It was. And of course, I know you're, I mean, look, when I wrote that book, you know, apologetics just lights me up. I just love the fact that the more we learn, the more it points to the Bible as history, the more points to the existence of God. And which brings us to your book, right in time for Easter, you wrote a book called Body of Proof about the resurrection. And there's so many people I used to be one of them that don't know. that the evidence for the resurrection is utterly overwhelming. I defy anyone to look into it because you'll be very disappointed if you want to believe that Jesus almost certainly didn't rise from the dead. You're going to be shocked.

So if you don't want to know about it, do not look into it. Do not read body of proof by my guest. So this book is brand new. Is it not? It's brand new. And I'm so thankful that it's been resupplied on Amazon because it was out for a while. And I just want to say this, Eric, you know us PhDs. We know a lot about a little. That's what I always joke about. But the little I happen to do a lot about is the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus. And one thing I've noticed, Eric, and this is what I love about your program. You produce Christian thinkers. The resurrection of the resurrection today is alarmingly understudied. It's underpreached in the pulpit. We really don't hear about the resurrection outside of a funeral sermon and Easter Sunday. And I, you know, I've got a dog in the hunt. My wife and I have five kids. I don't. I don't know if you remember this. We also have triplets who are seven years old. We haven't slept in

seven years, by the way, unless I travel when I see you in places like that. But I'm worried because only 33% of teenagers today who call themselves Christians believe that the resurrection is an essential belief. And yet, when you look at the evidence, and in body of proof, I lay out the seven best evidences to believe that Jesus physically bodily rose from the grave. And then what's really cool, I wrote a Bible study. And Eric, we filmed this in Jerusalem. We had two drones, four cameras. I filmed inside the tomb of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the very spot where Jesus walked outside of the grave alive. I have never been in that spot because normally it's like a Disney theme park ride. You know, you have to stand in line for 12 hours to go inside the actual edicule. They stopped it.

His beatitude, Theophilus, gave us permission to film inside the church. All that footage is available in the Body of Proof Bible Study. I want people to be equipped. The promise that we're given more than any other promise in the New Testament is John 1419, because I live, you will. will live also. And we need to realize every shred of evidence for Jesus's resurrection, a shred of evidences for our own future resurrection. Well, again, I want to say that, you know, I was one of those people that I knew you had to believe that he rose from the dead to be a Christian. If you don't believe he rose from the dead, I mean, that's, you know, if people want to say, what is the minimum I need to believe? Well, the Nicene Creed, pretty basic, right? It doesn't talk about,

you have to be a young earther. It doesn't talk about you have to have pre-trib eschatology, but it does talk about he rose from the dead. It's an amazing thing. It's at the center of our faith. If you know the scripture, you realize that we have no faith without the resurrection. What are we even talking about?

But people aren't familiar with the fact that the evidence is truly astonishing. And I got to tell you, in two of my books, I wrote a book called Everything I always wanted to know about God, but we're afraid to ask three of those. It was all apologetics. And I wrote about it in everything I always wanted to know about God, but afraid to ask in one of those books. I think it was the Jesus edition, probably the third one.

And then when I wrote my Miracles book, I talk about the resurrection. And every time I look at the evidence, I can't believe that most people don't have any idea that if you dare to look at the evidence, I mean, if you're an atheist or if you don't want to believe he rose from the dead and you dare, you know, you can read my books. Obviously, right now we're talking about a full treatment, body of proof. by Jeremiah Johnson. I got to tell you, it's just the only hope for people is to avoid the evidence. I say the same thing about if you don't want to know if God exists. Don't read my book as atheism dead because you're going to be troubled when you look at the evidence has increased over the years.

I mean, if you talk to somebody 200 years ago, it would be much more difficult to make the case. Today, it's kind of open and shut. You're in a bad place if you don't want to believe this stuff. Yeah, and continuing to add people's bibliography, I just endorse. Dorse Gary Habermass's 1,000-page doorstopper on the evidence for the resurrection. Do you realize that? He writes, this is a guy who almost became a Buddhist at Michigan State, and his book has a thousand pages that's just the evidence. Now, if you don't want to read 1,000 pages, you can read Eric's book or my book, Body

of Proof. And here's the cool thing about it. Four of my evidences, and I give seven, four of them are what we call extra biblical, meaning I don't even have to open my Bible. Before I even open my Bible, I can look to the material culture. I can look to the archaeology. I can look to the great discoveries. And so these aren't just matters of faith, Eric, as you rightly point out.

These are just matters of history. I can quote skeptics like E.P. Sanders, now dead. Garrett Ludamon, now dead. These are skeptics that came out of German higher criticism and others. And even they agree the tomb was empty. So it's not just news for evangelical Christians that the tomb was empty. even skeptical biblical scholars believe that the earliest disciples of Jesus had experiences of seeing him alive after he was dead. And yet they stopped short.

They're like, now, we're not able to interpret what kind of experiences those were. But even they believe the tomb was empty. And so when I go to Israel today, and I go often, there's 100 archaeological sites in Israel at any given time in the dig season, you may have heard of the five books, if you're watching or listening to this show, that even atheist archaeologists will use. Most of them are Jews who are atheists. They use five books to make sure that they're digging in the right spot. These archaeological sites are expensive. You have to recruit volunteers.

You may have heard of these. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Book of Acts, and, oh, yeah, this guy, Josephus. Those are the six books that even the atheist archaeologists like Jody Magnus, University of North Carolina, and others use to make sure they're digging in the right spot. Here's a big fancy word. It's because those books, unlike any of the other religious texts, exhibit very very. similitude. They're very similar to what you would expect the first century world to be like. And here's the really cool thing about the resurrection of Jesus. The archaeology behind it is absolutely mind-blowing. It's fascinating. And that's why I want to guide believers by the hand. And Eric, it is cool that you

said that at the top of our interview. Yes, you have to believe in the resurrection. Do you know in most secular interviews I'm doing right now for the Body of Proof Media Tour? People are asking me, wait a minute, Jeremiah, as if this is news. Are you saying you have to believe in the resurrection to be a Christian? Hold on, folks. This is too crazy. We'll be right back plenty more. The book is called Body of Proof.

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You're going to love this free new tool they've added. Legacy p.m.investments.com. Legacy p.m. Investments.com. Check it out. Welcome back talking to Jeremiah Johnson. Weren't you played in a film by Robert Redford? I was. It's a great film and I hope I bear resilient, resemblance. From the 70s or the 80s and you were like coming around in the snow in Montana, Jeremiah Johnson.

That was you? That was me. And I'm like Benjamin Button. I don't age. I age backwards. We don't want to confuse people. Folks, just ignore what I said. We're talking about your book, Body of Proof.

And I want to get into what you were just talking about. But before that, how did you, what is your biography? How did you get into apologetics? Yes. You're an apologetics pastor at Preston Wood with our friend, Pastor Jack Graham. How did that happen for you? How did you fall into that world? And we love you, Eric, and we want to have you back here to Preston Wood.

I wasn't a Christian thinker, but I wanted to be. I knew I was a Christian, but I wasn't a Christian thinker. When I read Matthew 12 and, excuse me, Matthew 27, Mark 12, where Jesus said, the Great Commandment, where he modifies the Shemaz, the love God with your heart, soul, and your mind, I wanted to love God with my mind, but I didn't know how. And God called me to Oxford, where I did my Ph.D., I wrote a 93,000 word, Uber Lieferang's Geshisha, a history of resurrection belief in the Judeo-Christian motif. Uber-Liefrang's Gishita.

Yes. Are you kidding? No. That's kind of long. If you ever have insomnia, I encourage you to read it. So it's been written for dozens. It was published in a Jewish Christian text monograph series by the great Jim Charlesworth, who took over Bruce Metzger's chair. But the guy who examined me, and I write about this in the Body of Proof book,

he said, Bill Telford, who, by the way, was a disciple of William Barclay. And of course, Barclay Bible backgrounds is used by many Christian thinkers who listen to your program, Eric. They don't realize Barclay didn't believe in the miraculous at all. He didn't even think Christianity was true. He died a Unitarian. His protege, William Telford, interviewed me for my Viva Voce with Living Voice on December 11, 2012. He said, Jeremiah, and I didn't understand him, Eric, because half the words he was using that day was Latin. He said, I just have one question as we begin your Viva. And keep in mind, a PhD in England is past, fail. You can't ever do a do-over on that subject again. He said, do you.

you actually believe the resurrection of Jesus happened, or is this just imaginative storytelling? I'll never forget to use that term. I'd never heard that. And this is a guy who writes commentaries on the gospel of Mark. And he's a friend of mine, but I write openly about this story. And I said, well, Professor Telford, you know, David Hume said, wise men choose probabilities. The evidence leads me to believe, yes, Jesus physically bodily rose from the grave. I believe it with all my heart. He said, I don't see it that way. Let's start your Viva. Now, he later passed me with commendation, but I want to just point out, you say that so clearly in your interview as we should. And it's a devastating passage in 1 Corinthians 157 that if Jesus didn't rise from the dead,

there is no faith at all. But what I'm seeing reflected right now with the kind of anemic, and this is why I love you, Eric. I love your strong voice for the faith. I love what you're doing for Christianity. I heard you speak here in Dallas recently at the Council for Life and everything you were saying. I was just out in the audience saying amen to. We need pastors that have a spine.

We need pastors that are willing to preach biblical Christianity. Every sermon in the book of Acts talks about the resurrection of Jesus. And I don't think any of those were Easter Sunday sermons, by the way. There are only 260 chapters in the New Testament, 300 references to the resurrection. And yet we really only hear about it at Easter time. And this shouldn't be. The resurrection is the key to our hope. And I did one of those things you can do after you write a book.

I did a control F word study. I used the word hope. 143 times in my Bible study. I didn't even mean to. And I think that's an application point for those that are watching and listening to your show today. The resurrection of Jesus is not just an apologetic academic exercise. It's what gives us a living hope. First Peter 1-3 is a passage I've been memorizing right now. Eric, praise me to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has invited us into a living hope, not because I feel like a Christian, but because of the fact of Jesus resurrection. That's why we all need to brush up.

on it a little bit more. Well, you know, I was going to say that the concept of the resurrection. I mean, if you step, the problem is like we've all heard it so much that we can't really see it clearly and cleanly. It is the mindblower. When people say nobody can rise from the dead, I want to say to them, that's exactly correct. That is correct. People don't rise. They never rose from the dead. If it happens, it is a miracle of God. And sometimes, people have the sloppy view. Well, in the past, crazy stuff happened. People believed everything. People were not stupid two thousand years ago. There were just as many stupid people then as there are today, which is to say plenty, but there were also a lot of smart people. And when they saw Jesus rise from the dead, they were staggered. It isn't supposed to happen. You don't go, well, that's nice. It is a mind-blowing thing. It is a miracle. And that's kind of the point is that Jesus rose from the dead. to so destroy the doubters that you can imagine, how did Christianity get started?

That's how it got started. When you know that someone you know was dead, dead, dead, dead. And then you see him talking to you, and he is not a ghost. He's flesh and blood. It changes everything. It will turn you inside out. You'll never be the same. And all of those who saw him, they were a force of nature.

They were unstoppable in talking about him. No one could, you'd have to kill them to get them to stop talking about it. And we need to understand that's logical, folks. There's no way the Christian faith would have taken off unless people who they were threatened with torture and death. They said, you know what? I don't care. Jesus defeated death.

You can't scare me. I'm just alive with joy and hope. And that's, if it didn't happen, there is no way that the Christian. faith would have spread. People would have just said, you know what, maybe I got it wrong. I'll keep my mouth shut. But once you see this, and that's, again, that's what you're writing about. This is utterly central. Without this, there is no Christian faith. It's just a, you know, a Jefferson Bible, be a nice person. And, you know, life will be 5% better if you're a nice person. Well, no, we're talking about the difference between death and life. It's, I mean, again,

it's as central as it gets. But you've never written. a book devoted to it until now. That's right. And that's why I want people to understand. And I have a funny chapter. I think you'd like, Eric, if the disciples invented the resurrection story that we see embedded in the Gospels, they did a terrible job. Eric, if you and I wanted to invent a religion in the first century, we wouldn't have invented it the way it is written in the Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, because it leaves itself open to embarrassment. It's not men, it's females who are the first witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus of the empty tomb. Those are the same women mentioned in Luke 8, 1 through 3, who financially took care of Jesus's ministry during his earthly ministry. It's fascinating.

Luke uses the Greek word autopatase. It's the word we get autopsy from. We saw these things with our eyes and so in his en Kippet in his first four verses in Luke. He said, you can have a certainty about these things that as you stated, Eric, so well, gives you an unstoppable in your faith. we have to ask ourselves critical questions. What causes this rag tan tag band of cussers and doubters who occasionally speak for Satan? Think of Peter in Matthew 16. Jesus, you can't go to the cross, he said. Remember what Jesus said in response? Get behind me, Satan. Jesus was always saying I was going to the cross. Mark 831, Mark 931, Mark 10, 33 and 34. The son of man will die. And on the third day, he quotes, Jose is 6, 2, and 3, be resurrected for you. He stands at that tomb in Bethany, and we filmed there, Eric, and I love it. The filming aspect of this Bible study is not overproduced. I suffer from claustrophobia. You can hear my voice quivering in the Lazarus tomb. I had to get on all fours to get there. There was no air conditioning. I'm sweating, but I still belted out. Lazarus, come forth.

And yet, here's the point I want to make in John 11. That still wasn't enough evidence for some people. And what people need to understand, there will never be enough evidence for some of these who have made up their mind. They're not going to follow God. Well, listen, this is, this is to me where it actually is almost comedic. I mean, Lazarus was risen from the dead. I mean, word got out about that. People lost their minds because they knew what had happened. And there were some people, the religious establishment, was so bitter.

and so angry about Jesus that he's stealing their thunder. He's stealing, you know, their people. They didn't care that Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the dead. They wanted to kill Lazarus. They wanted to kill Jesus. And you think, wow, that's not a good look for you, religious establishment, that you're, rather than going, huh, maybe we miss something here.

No, you double down on wanting to crush this. Now, I've got to ask you, I didn't know that the tomb of Lazarus was something that we know where it was. Right. Yeah. And that's one of those certainty. What's interesting about it, only 1.8 miles from the city's center of Jerusalem, as the crow flies, is this very important city of Bethany. It's mentioned 11 times in the New Testament. It takes 20 minutes to drive there. Unfortunately, part of our crew would do it. Hold on. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. No, keep going. Keep going. I thought, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. It's only, it's a 20-minute drive, though, even though, even though, it's less than two miles because it goes through what modernly is called West Bank territory. So a lot of groups don't go there, Eric. In fact, I had never been there before we filmed.

Unbelievable. I just, you know, there's so much yet to see and learn. And again, I mentioned my book is atheism dead. When I wrote that book, I thought, I can't wait to go to Israel and to see the stuff I wrote about. All of it is in the British Museum. Some of it is actually in Israel. So I'm just excited. We'll be right back. We're talking to Jeremiah Johnson. His book is Body of Proof, Body of Proof, brand new. Our God-given freedoms are facing unrelenting attacks. It's a battle for truth. And the only way we win is if we stand together. Thankfully, Alliance defending freedom has been defending our rights for 30 years and winning. Right now, they're involved in two critical cases before the Supreme Court. They're suing the FDA for endangering the health and safety of women and girls. And in the second, case they're assisting the state of Idaho to defend its law protecting the lives of women and their

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Nutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Folks, welcome back. We're talking with Jeremiah Johnson, not his real name. Actually, it is his real name. Jeremiah Johnson, not the one who is played by Robert Redford in that film, that forgettable film. Jeremiah Johnson, who's an apologist, he's at Prestonwood Baptist Church,

a great church in Dallas, and he's written a book about the resurrection called Body of Proof. And you said that you've made a documentary to go along with it. I just want to be clear. Yeah, the Body of Proof is actually two books. The first one has the seven lines of evidence

for the resurrection of Jesus. The second one is a four-week Bible study that just came out, Eric, a few days ago. So I'm so thankful to have this conversation. on your wonderful show. At the back of the book, all you have to do is buy the Bible study, at the back is a code, and it unlocks 11 episodes. And we're doing this over 500 life groups at Preston Wood right now. That's our Bible study Christian education. Other churches are doing it. Over 300,000 churches are using it right now in some form or fashion. There are short videos

where you can actually see me at Bethany at the Tomb of Lazarus. You can see me at Dominus Flevitt, where I believe that is ground zero for those other Christians that were resurrected. in Matthew chapter 27. Eric, we took a Hummer off road, filmed the whole thing. It sounds extravagant, but unless you've gone off-roading, it was back and forth side to side. And we found the actual road to Amos. I'm not talking about Amos. I'm talking about the road to Amos. We're in Luke 24, Cleopis encounters this stranger who begins from Moses and the prophets, Luke 24, 27 to say, hey, not just bits and pieces, all the Old Testament testifies of me. What would we pay to have an audio recording of what Jesus said on the road to Emmaus, to Cleopas, and the other

dude? I mean, it's, it's so tantalizing. It is. I mean, we can talk about a Bible study. The rest of the scripture has it, but it's so, it's just so amazing. But I had never heard before that we would know where that road to Amas is today. You're saying you, you believe that you found it 100% and it doesn't originate with me my friend ellie chakron who's an archaeologist in israel who also found the pool of siloam found it there are six feet tall roman cylindrical milestones eric that we can read they're incised and latin so you come to this clearing and again it's southwest of jerusalem on the way to ameus or ameus as they say there and all the sudden there's a clearing there's a road by the way the roman roads still have the curbing 2,000 years later

they knew how to build roads really well. Those roads carried the gospel throughout the Mediterranean world, and there's these cylindrical columns. And so I just imagine in my mind's eye, Cleopis and the other disciple are walking. They're dejected. Remember, they had given up on Christianity. Luke 24, 21, we had hoped he was the Messiah, but he just got massacred on the cross. And this stranger begins to walk with them.

And the Bible says that he was going to carry on, but they prevailed on him. And it wasn't until, and by the way, I love the fact that there are 13 different meals scenes in the book of Luke, by the way. This is another meal scene in the gospel of Luke. They dine together. They're enjoying drink and food together. And Jesus, when he breaks the bread and gives thanks, their eyes are opened. And they realize they've just done resurrect, they've just done Bible study with the resurrection one who is resurrection embodied. And again, we talk about that as we film. We had two drones over top. It was amazing. Can we imagine that moment when they realized who they were sitting with?

And you realize that they were just about to get a selfie and he was gone. Well, and I have to tell you, I see myself on that because, you know, I wake up as skeptic every morning and the Holy Spirit has to correct me and reorient me every day. And they were so focused on their problems, on their challenges. They didn't realize Jesus was walking right there with them, that seven-mile journey to Amas. And isn't that a message for people who are watching and listening to your program today? you might be so overwhelmed. You're like the dad in Mark 9.

You don't realize Jesus has just been transfigured before you. And you're probably one saying, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. And guess what? That's enough faith to activate Jesus in your life. And that's why I want to commend this show, Eric. And I'm just so thankful for your strong stance for Christianity. And I want to just pray that God continues to raise you up and speak through you

and that you'll continue to be courageous. You'll continue to call pastors to have a spine. We need pastors to speak up on these issues to actually read books. We need pastors who don't download their sermons from Google. Gemini can't figure out anything. AI is very scary. Where we go for verified information is really important. That's why your show is a go-to show for pastors.

And I just appreciate so much you talking about this, Eric. It takes a lot of boldness to do what you do. Well, you are really kind to the point of overkind, but I'll just say thank you. I mean it. It's just, listen, you know, once you can't unsee certain things. right once you know something you want the whole world to know and this happens to me over and over with all the books that i write like i discover something and i just flip out because i realized i didn't know this i didn't understand this then once i understand it i want to tell everyone you know and we're

actually with uh is atheism dead uh in a number of my books we want to turn them into streaming tv series that yes please do let's go back to the british museum and film there i was going to The hot dog at the hot dog stand. When you know this stuff, it's exciting. It's exciting. And look, we all need encouragement. I know that I do, right? I mean, life is tough.

But when you know this stuff and when you're able to share it with people who didn't know it, it is exciting. When you can say to somebody unequivocally, listen, Jesus actually rose from the dead, literally bodily. No, no, no, no, no. it actually happened. This is not something I take it on faith, but who knows, the more you look into it, the more you'll be convinced, which is why I dare you folks to look into it.

I dare you to read Body of Proof, which is the book by Jeremiah Johnson that we're discussing right now. The book is called Body of Proof. Obviously, there's a Bible study. You can watch the videos. This is exciting. You need to be excited about your faith because it's true, because we need hope. We'll be right back.

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Folks, welcome back. We're having fun. I'm talking to Jeremiah Johnson. He's at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Dallas where I'll be next week. And we are talking about his new book called Body of Proof about the resurrection. And again, it's all amazing, Jeremiah, because the more time passes, the more evidence we have for the resurrection, for the existence. of God. I was talking about my book is atheism dead. I was myself astonished at how science has progressed. It's pointing to God unequivocally, not like sort of unequivocally. The only problem is

most people don't know it. Most people are still operating off of, you know, God's probably, you know, antithetical to science or to reason, completely the opposite, not just untrue, utterly the opposite, but most people, they're not up to speed. They haven't read my book. They haven't read your book. They're kind of still operating on what the media is putting out, which is this narrative that somehow, you know, faith is just antithetical to reason. And you and I are saying exactly the opposite.

And by the way, if you read our books, you're going to have trouble if you want to to stick to that old narrative, which is why a lot of people would never dare to read your book body of proof it's going to blow their mind well and a lot of believers stay unfortunately remind me of lloyd christmas from dumb and dumber so you're telling me there's a chance a one in the million chance that no i'm telling you that outside of faith that there it's just facts of history christianity unlike islam by the way the new york times ran an op-ed recently that the jewish temple never existed can you imagine that i'm kidding no i wish i was eric i wish i was the new york times Talk about fake history, fake news.

If there is anybody dumb enough to read the New York Times, I promise you, they don't listen to this program. Because the idea of this day and age you would read the New York Times, it is just gone to the devil. I mean, it was never great, but it had great stuff in it. It is absolutely, it's actually sad, but we need to move on. Well, we do. But I'm making a point that Christianity, unlike Islam, unlike Hinduism, unlike the Eastern religion, unlike the made in America cult and religion, Christianity puts itself to the historical test. In my book, Eric, I point out how we know the exact day. April 5th, 8033 is the day that tomb was empty.

We can go back to the exact day, the 14th day of Nissan. He is crucified. He's massacred on the cross. And three days later, Sunday morning, April 5th, 8033. In my book, I dive into that because I want everyone to know if you would have been there on April 5th, 8033, the tomb, would have been empty. And as you pointed out, this was no phantom or ghost or ghostly apparition. Jesus is eating with them. He's hugging them. He's embracing them. There's a tone of his voice that in John 20, I preached this passage inside the Church of the Holy Sepulcher three times. Mary heard Jesus in his native tongue. Riboni, she says, she recognized even his voice. So his voice hadn't changed. He didn't suddenly have some kind of avatar weird voice. No, his voice was the same. It was the same person, yet he was alive from the dead.

And one of the things that I point out is, you cannot convincingly explain to me, Eric, the conversion of those who did not follow Jesus during his earthly ministry outside of the resurrection. Is this not the carpenter son? I mean, Jesus is essentially called a bastard by the, and I hope it's okay for me to say that. That's what the Bible says. He's called that in Mark 3 and Mark 6. They say he's an illegitimate child. His own family thinks he's out of his mind.

John 7 verse 5, not even his brothers believed on him. And yet we have this very paramount passage in 1st Corinthians 15, verse 6 and 7. And he appears to James. Now think about that. I have, as I mentioned, four sons. I can tell you none of the boys think their brother is the son of God. They certainly wouldn't die thinking that. Imagine everyone's brothers watching us right now.

What would it take for you to believe your brother was the son of God to the point that you die? Josephus tells us that. James dies. He's killed Eric in AD 62 by a corrupt Jewish priesthood believing his brother is the son of God. Who did Paul confer with when he has a, I hope we can time travel in heaven someday because Paul does a vacation to Jerusalem in Galatians 1 and 2 in his autobiographical section. He meets with James and Peter and John, the pillars of the church. He wants to make sure he gets the gospel right. Even though he had this Damascus Road experience, Paul still wants to make sure his experience lines up with the Word of God. There's a great message there for us, by the way. But he gets with James. My point is it took the resurrection for even Jesus' own immediate family

members to believe he was the Messiah, and they die believing that. So it's the only convincing explanation for the conversion of St. Paul, who was a chauvinist, James, who thought his brother was out of his mind, Mark 321. Isn't that interesting? I said it earlier that this was, you know, the thing that God did that just everything stops. When someone rises from the dead after a crucifixion, they didn't fall asleep. They weren't in a coma. They were crucified. You cannot imagine anything more awful.

And even in my books, I go into this evidence. I don't go into the depth that you do. But when you look at the evidence, you've got big problems. And this is why we're living in a culture where people just have to look the other way. because it's too painful. The evidence for God, I mean, I say it in my book is atheism, dead. The evidence for God from science is now open and shut. You could hate God.

You could say, well, I don't know who God is, but the idea that there's no God, that goes into the category of people who believe the earth is flat. People say, well, but there are people who believe that. Well, good for them. I'm not really going to spend a day arguing with them. If they want to believe something crazy like that, to me that the issue is settled. The issue, whether there is a God, is settled.

When you look at the evidence, the fine-tuning in the universe and all that kind of stuff, and it's the same thing with the resurrection. You've got big problems, folks, if you don't want to believe this. Because the evidence,

I mean, when you talk about that, there's no doubt that the tomb was empty. And they were, I think of them like the keystone cops. They're losing their minds over the fact that the tomb is empty and they have to say,

uh, the disciples stole the body. Why do they have to say that? because there is nobody. If they could find the corpse, it's game over. They knew that the corpse is not there. So they can't believe he rose from the dead. So they have to invent this thing. Oh, the disciples stole the body. And then you think, okay, would the disciples steal the body? Let's look at the evidence for that. The evidence for that, there's no way they would have done that. Again, the more you look at it, the more you realize how troubling it is for somebody who doesn't want to believe he rose from the dead.

So, you know, it's time that we push this out there, Jeremiah. You've done it by. writing this book and people need to understand this happened if you don't like it you got some problems uh you do and i want to say this eric your book letter to the american church is so needed a good friend of mine has been sending it to their pastor everybody who has a pastor needs to get your book into their pastor's hands they're especially their senior pastor's hands because you're touching on something right now that is right where i itch we need pastors who are who actually know the bible who preach the bible I want to come right back. We'll do a final segment with Jeremiah Johnson. Hang on, folks.

Welcome back talking to Jeremiah Johnson. The new book is Body of Proof. And you were just saying kind things about my book, Letter to the, of course, we made it into a documentary film, which it is free for any church that wants to do a screening. Any church that wants to do a screen. Not if you're home, you know, you've got to pay the $9 or whatever it is. to see it, and you go to the American Church.com and see it. But any church that wants to do a screening, we are so, you know, excited to get this message out, to save America for God's purposes. If the church does not wake up and be the church, bold, then, you know, we're going to be

like the German church in the 30s. That's kind of what many churches are right now. I know Prestonwood Baptist is not one of them. But we're standing alone right now, Eric, and, you know, we stand for. for things like life. We believe every child is a wanted child. That's why we have a conference coming up just to talk about adoption, just talk about foster care that would encourage people to check out called the Chosen

conference. Back to your letter to the American Church, I was just in Phoenix where it was shown at a conference there. And again, mind-blowing the work that you've done here, pointing out that the church is the only hope for America, and yet the church has become breathless and anemic in culture. I want to, again, encourage people, if you haven't gotten this book for yourself or for your pastor, please do it.

If your kids go to a Christian school, buy it for the headmaster of a Christian school. Because Eric, I didn't know you were so prophetic, but you're turning out to be because it's dangerous what will happen if the church does not wake up. It really is. And there are still those that will stand strong. I mean, I think of the great Caseman, the great Greek scholar who stood up to preach with Gestapo in his church. And he preached on Isaiah 26, we'll have no other lords. before me. He preached on that passage, knowing there was Gestapo in his church, and he was later sent to the concentration camps. We need pastors who have that kind of boldness to preach truth today

and know that God is going to protect them. God is going to bless their ministries. The ministries and the seminaries that are dying today, Eric, they're the churches that compromise. And I think that's what you're getting at with your book and why I hope people will put it in as many hands as possible. It's very, very well done. Well, I say this, thank you very much. I say this to people everywhere I go when people say, what can I do? They're always asking me for any, you know, there's many things you can do. You can go to the American church.com and just spread it because there's so many people don't even know about it. But I say to people, the number one thing that you can do, if you're going to a church that is laying down when they should be standing up,

that is silent when they should be speaking, for the sake of your own soul and your family, get out of that church yesterday last weekend. not tomorrow, because this is exactly where the German church was. If those people, going to those churches, had known what was coming because of their silence, they would have run or they would have spoken up loudly. They would have shouted. But they didn't. They waited.

They waited. And the result was just one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the world, one of the most horrible things that ever happened because of the silence of the church. So even if people are preaching, they say, well, in my church, are preaching the Bible? It's like, well, but are they preaching that part of the Bible? that is calling out evil? Or are they just avoiding that stuff? If you're avoiding that stuff, you're avoiding what God has called you to do. Jeremiah Johnson, congratulations on the book, Body of Proof.

And what is the conference you were talking about? The Chosen Conference at Preston with April 13, I'd encourage everyone to check it out. It's a national emergency summit. The greatest unreached people group right now in America are children. We're going to encourage adopted families, families that are looking to foster children, Sadie Robertson Huff, Governor Abbott of Texas is going to be with us lots of other great guests. So please check it out. We're excited that we care about every life, not just babies in the womb.

We care about babies from the womb to the tomb, and we're proving that here at Prestonwood. Well, all Christians do, and people need to know that. So Jeremiah Johnson, God bless you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Eric. This was awesome.