The Eric Metaxas Show - Jerome Corsi (Encore)

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

A Miracle Monday encore presentation with Jerome Corsi on his book "The Shroud Codex"

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Today is Monday, and often on Monday we do something called Miracle Monday. I think the subject of today's conversation falls into the category of the miraculous. We're talking about the resurrection bodily of Jesus of Nazareth. Oh, about 2,000 years ago. Some people don't believe it ever happened. Some people know that it happened.

And some people don't believe such things could happen. This did. And this is kind of the ultimate miracle. And I have with me today as my guests for both hours, I hope, Dr. Jerome Corsi. Dr. Corsi, welcome back. Oh, Eric, it's always great pleasure to be with you. Thank you. Listen, you and I, we were here a couple of weeks ago talking about the story of your

persecution by the Mueller investigation. We really got into that and your faith. We then talked about your new book, which is about the gargantuan hoax of climate change and how this has been politicized and just the evil of it. But you've written many, many books. You have a number of New York Times number one bestsellers, very, very big deal. So there are tons of people. There are tons of people listening who don't know you and there are tons of people listening thinking how in the world did you get Jerome Corsi on the program because he's written so many books that I have read and loved. And what I wanted to say up front, which I find so remarkable about you and your books, is that you have that very, very rare ability to write not just about extremely disparate subjects, but to write in a way

where some of the books are really seriously intellectual and academic and dense and difficult and others are exactly the opposite, just tremendously readable. So when we spoke the last time, we were talking about your newest book, which is called The Truth. Tell me the Truth About Energy, Global Warming, and Climate Change. Okay. That book has some really dense, difficult stuff in it. It's a very important book. but to go from reading that to a book you wrote about 10 or so years ago called the Shroud

Codex, I thought it's hard to believe the same person could write these kinds of books because the Shroud Codex is one of the easiest books to read. It is a thriller about the Shroud of Turin, but it's written like a thriller. And the first couple of pages I thought, I am sucked in, I'm gripped by your writing. So I have to ask you, because I'm a writer, How do you, have you written other, like, thriller books before this one, or was this the first one? I have, but this is really the first that was published. I mean, I've been, I want to write more fiction, and I will be.

I actually wrote a children's story when I was at graduate school that was used in schools for decades. It was called The King, the Dragon, and the Witch. I love writing fiction. I'm going to do more of it now. Is that published, The King, the Dragon, and Witch? Oh, yes, Ginn and Company published it. Who's that? gin and company. Oh, I remember them. Remember them? And they had it in print for quite a few years.

I've got another children's story that I want to publish, and I've had it for years as well. I'd like to write fiction. We'll write more fiction. I think of the rest of my life. Well, look, it's obvious from reading the shroud codex, which is the book we're going to discuss now that you have an affinity for it and a talent for it. but it's almost funny to me on the heels of reading your book about the truth about climate change and which is very dense and very scientific and in many ways difficult and challenging to turn to the first page of the shroud codex and I think this is hard not to read now that's a real compliment folks it's hard not to read but give my audience for people who are just tuning in they know nothing about the shroud give us a the short version of what is the shroud? Because this book is a fictional book dealing with a true subject, a real subject. What is the real subject? The shroud of Turin is a relic.

It's been around since at least the first century. I mean, it's debated as to when it's first shown up. But what it is is essentially an image. It's the burial cloth of Jesus Christ is what it is. I believe that fully. It's a full-length linen cloth. The body laid flat on it, and it was wrapped over the head, so the top of the body was also covered. It's the linole cloth when Jesus died.

It was his burial cloth. I think Joseph of Arimathea, and the Bible says he provided this cloth, and it has an image on it of a crucified man, which is, I believe, the image of Jesus Christ. And I've seen it three times in person. I mean, it's a remarkable image. Look, this is, I'm going to interrupt you constantly because this is so heavy. I know there are people listening right now who know nothing about this. And I'm here to tell you, folks, this is as heavy as it gets.

This is a big deal. When I learned about this, which is maybe, I don't know, 35 years ago or something, it was in the news. And first of all, the question is, is it authentic? Because a lot of people say, oh, please, come on. You know, the actual burial cloth of Jesus. I don't think so. That's a legitimate point of view. You could see people just thinking, this is insane. And there are people, Christians, dumb enough to believe that this could be the actual literal burial cloth of Jesus. Okay, so let's start there. Then you start looking into it. And the more you look into it, and this is what happened to me, the more you are freaked out by how, you know what, seems like maybe it could be. Maybe, of course it's not, but maybe it could be. The more. The more you are freaked out by how, you know what, seems like maybe it could be. the more you look into it, the more you think, I think maybe this really is. And then a thousand questions come up.

How did it survive? How did this image get on it? What can we do in terms of testing and whatever? So the story of this putative burial cloth is itself unendingly fascinating. And I want to get into that because you've written a book about it. know more about it than almost anyone. But you chose to put this information into a thriller, a fictional thriller called the Shroud Codex, which, as I said, I read. And it came out, what, 2010 or something like that?

2010, it was first published. So let me ask you the first question. What, because we're going to get into all these details. And trust me, folks, this is fascinating. Even if you end up not believing in it. It's at least fascinating and tremendously educational. But what led you in the, you know, 15 or so years ago to say I want to write a book on the subject of this fantastically famous relic? First of all, every book I've ever written has come to me whole before I've written a word. I know exactly what the book is going to be. It's like I'll wake up one and the book is right in my mind. So I can't explain. why I, they're just there, like,

go write this book. And it even happened with this book. It even happened with this book. And it won't leave me alone until I actually write it. I'll be dreaming it. I'll wake up at 3 in the morning. Finally, I just decided to start writing it. Now, I'll tell you a couple things about the shroud, and I've known about this since

I was about 15. The shroud, first of all, the image is a negative image. In other words, like a photograph, it's a negative image. And it wasn't until the 1800s when someone took a photograph, they realized it's not a positive image. So it's not a painted image. It's like a negative. In other words, the dark areas are really the light areas. And the light areas are really the

dark areas. Right. So this is part of, and again, folks, this is, there's a lot here. So I'm going to be interrupting a lot. Forgive me. But just that idea, today, we all know what a photographic image is. And we know what a photographic negative is. We all know, but we know that until photography was invented. In fact, it wasn't even the first photographs, they didn't even use negatives. Negatives came after that, which I learned from reading your book, the shroud code. So the idea of somebody even producing a negative image at any time

before 1850 was unthinkable. Right. And now we know that now we know that the image that's on this ancient shroud, wherever it comes from, is a negative image. Right. That alone is bizarre. And it's been fully, even the people were skeptics who say the carbon dating showed it was a medieval relic. It's known to have gone back to the 1,300 to the 1,200s or the 1,200. So it's way before negatives were ever known. Now, a couple other startling facts on this is that the image of the crucified man in exquisite detail conforms with the passion of Christ as conveyed in the Bible.

Okay, we're going to go to break. Folks, you're going to learn a lot. Do not go away. Miracle Monday, Dr. Jerome Corsey's my guest. As you know, our friend Mike Lindell has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. He didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow. Mike created the best bed sheets ever. They look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep for me, which is crucial for my busy schedule.

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1-800-978-3057. The promo code is Eric or please go to MyPeeza. Pillow.com, Mypillow.com. Use the code, Eric. Folks, my guest today is Dr. Jerome Corsi, C-O-R-S-I, who's written many, many books. But we're talking about a book right now that he wrote, came out in 2010, called The Shroud Codex. And it is a fictional thriller that is based on the reality of this relic. Or some people say it's a hoax, it's made up, but the point is we're talking about a 14-foot-long piece of linen cloth, which many people, Dr. Korsi and I, among them, believe is the genuine burial cloth of Jesus. And the more you hear about it, the more difficult it is to dismiss. So you were just saying that it's a negative image.

So if this was even a medieval hoax created in the 13th, 14th centuries, nobody back then knew what a negative image was. So that would be kind of weird for them to come up with it. But you also say that there are things we now know about a crucifixion that are revealed in this image, which they couldn't have known in the 13th and 14th centuries. First of all, the Romans crucified a lot of people. And in modern times, it's been studied what the... what the actual act of crucifixion is.

I mean, how the physical act works. Now, the shroud, for instance, you can't put the nails, you're going to nail someone to wood and hang them on the cross. You can't put it through the palm of the hand because that'll simply, with the weight of the body, they'll slip through the, you know, break through the skin and it won't hold anything.

There's a set of bones that you have to drive it through, right in the wrist. It's actually in the wrist, not in the palm, and there's arteries there. So it has to be driven so it doesn't pierce an artery. If you pierce an artery, the person's going to die in about 20 seconds. They're going to bleed to death. So you have to put the nail in there, and these bones will hold the hand there.

Also, there's a nerve there, and the thumb collapses inside when that nerve is damaged with a nail going through the hand. The hands of the crucified man bear all of these. The nail is through the right place. I have to say, folks, this is gruesome stuff. And reading the book, reading anything about the crucifixion, but reading this book, it's a devotional act because it makes you understand the horrible suffering that the crucified victim would go through. But what you're describing now, of course, is things that we wouldn't have known centuries ago. We have learned these things over time. The particularly sadistic cruelty of the Romans in doing this satan.

panic thing that they would crucify people, much less crucify Jesus. But the details are things we now know. Right. And there's been books recently that have gone into the anatomy of crucifixion. And also some of the details of how the Romans did crucify people, because sometimes they wanted to last days. Sometimes they had to have the person die in a couple hours. And Christ had to die quickly because the Passover was coming. And they had to get them buried. So he had to to die in about three hours, and the Romans made sure that was going to happen by the brutality of the way they beat Christ before he was crucified by the way they crucified him, and there's lots of different details. I mean, I'll give you a couple, I want to talk about the story and

how it works, but the bat with the scourging. Now, the Romans used a particular kind of a whip, the handle and lay, but it had a dumbbell piece of leather at the end of the tip. Lead. lead. It's lead dumbbell, it's shaped like just like just two balls and a handle. All through the whip were these handles. So when they

whip somebody, those handles dug into the skin. Now in the back, in fact all over the body of the crucified man in the shroud, you see these dumbbells. And again, forgive me, folks, this is so gruesome but if you've studied

the crucifixion, if you studied the past, you're familiar with this stuff. The Romans were astonishingly cruel, and I want to be clear that our modern standards, it's hard for us to understand sometimes evil. When you study some of these ancient civilizations that had no hint of Christian values or biblical values, the level of cruelty is horrifying.

And so when you write about this in your book, Dr. Corsi, it's difficult to read because it's obvious that the Romans knew how to torture and kill in a way that, you know, it makes you believe in hell. It makes you believe that there are people who are in hell because the cruelty of it is just too much to bear. And I'm writing about evil. Evil is at the heart of this book. And that's, and the point of, you know, the the blood flows. Okay, so when you crucify someone, the arms are held at a certain angle, and that means the blood is going to flow down the arms at a certain pattern, which would, you know, go with gravity. Well, the blood flows on the shroud, the man in the shroud crucified. The blood

flows are absolutely authentic to the way that blood would flow if that person had been crucified. Now, to have known those anatomical details, including blood flows, there's blood serum, actual blood serum in the shroud. It's not painted. And these are, again, the kinds of details that 1300s, I mean, you know, Leonardo. Well, I learned so much reading the book,

but again, I want to frame this so that the audience is kind of enjoying this in the way that I did when I read the book. Right. And the book is the shroud codex. But here's the point, folks. This relic was widely disputed in the 20th century

as not being authentic. They said this is a medieval forgery. It was created in the medieval era in the 13th or 14th centuries. And so that idea has been pushed out and pushed out and pushed out. And I guess about 40 years ago and change, they made some studies of it. And so what we're trying to talk about here and what Dr. Corssey writes about in the book, the shroud codex, is like, okay, let's say it was a a hoax. Let's say they created in the 13th to 14th centuries. How in the world, how in the world would they know in the 13th and 14th centuries what a photographic negative is? How would they have known that the flagellum of a Roman whip would have had this tiny, tiny barbell-shaped lead weight at the end of it to

impact maximum cruelty and suffering and then have this image covered the back of this this shroud with precisely what you would find if it were authentic. It boggles the

mind that somebody could dispute that this would be authentic because you think you really believe people in the medieval era could have conceived of this? Yes. I want to kind of also give the my testimony about this in the sense I've seen the shroud in person three times

Now by the way that's crazy how in the world this is one of the holiest most sacred relics in the world how did you get access to this? They've had three public exhibitions going back to you know about in the 90s and I got press credentials you know as a reporter and I through the church in Turin

which which is the custodian of the of the shroud. So Turino Tour in Italy is where it is housed. That's where it's housed. And they have in each one of the exhibitions, public exhibitions, I've applied in Italian. I speak Italian. I applied in Italian to get press credentials. I was granted them. And when I went over, now I had the chance to sit for hours and watch the shroud. I mean, I've actually sat there in front of it, you know, praying, meditating, studying every detail of it. And I can tell you, from my own personal testimony, that is just, you know, I've actually sat there in front of it, you know, praying, meditating, studying every detail of it. And I can tell you, from my own personal testimony, that is just, Jesus Christ. That is the barrel cloth. It's not possible that it could be otherwise. Well, once you read your book, The Shroud Codex, you'll see how it doesn't make any sense that this could be a forgery. The deeper you dig, the more you realize it's just not conceivable that anyone could have created a forgery of this magnitude, because in the book you go into the details. But you got to sit there with it. I got to sit there with it and study it, undisturbed. They'll bring people in.

People get a few seconds to stand in front of the shroud and see it, and they're moved through. Because there's literally thousands of people coming down to these. And how did you get this much time? Well, because I had press credentials. And in press credentials, they allowed me to sit in the church. They allowed me to get very close to the shroud. I was favored by the church. They know who I am.

And I've done much of the Vatican. I've been very close to the Pope. I've interviewed, you know, I've done photographing and videos. and DVDs at the Vatican. So I'm known in Italy. This is Pope John Paul II. Going back to Pope John Paul II, I mean, this is even the most recent exhibition

was just a few years ago. I mean, I was recently in Turin seeing the shroud. And it's a phenomenal experience. It's overwhelming experience. And the deeper you study it, the more it becomes alive. What I want to tell you, would kind of make sure everybody gets the impact right away.

This is a photograph of the moment of the resurrection. That's the point. So when we come back, we'll get into more details. But think about this, folks. We're talking about, this is the actual braille cloth of Jesus. And in these last days,

these things come to our attention. And we have the science now to understand what we're dealing with. So this is essentially a photograph of the resurrection, a photographic negative. We'll get back to the details with Jerome Corsey. The book is The Shroud Codex. Miracle Monday in the air taxes show talking to Dr. Jerome Corsey about his book, The Shroud Codex, a thriller that gives us intimate, extraordinary details of this thing called,

now known as the Shroud of Turin. And there's so much forensic evidence in this cloth that that's what I find amazing. It's incredible. And as I said, I've seen it three times in person. I've had press credentials in the last three exhibitions. I've got to study it for hours and, you know, really have it affect my soul. I mean, it made an impact on me emotionally. It made an impact on me religiously.

I mean, I've always believed in Jesus Christ, but this, finally, I doubt the evidence in this book to say this is the photograph of the moment. of the resurrection. And it's a photograph that is not taken in a normal photograph. It's a negative, but only the very top layers of the fabric are seared on the cloth, on the cloth

of the Charlottet Turin. It's like an image that went radiant, the moment of resurrection. The body went suspended, radiant, and the cloth was burned from the as it were, I think the sudden exceptional moment.

when Jesus Christ was resurrected. Probably instantaneous. Instantaneous. Extremely high heat of radiation. It's a transcendal moment. It's a moment that in physics would be at the edge of an event transition. It's when you go from one dimension to another. That type of event.

A singularity, the event horizon of a black hole. But we have to talk about these people who say it's a hoax. Many of them said, oh, it was painted. It's a medieval forgery. But what you say very clearly is there is no paint. The fibers have been looked at through innumerable microscopes. There is zero paint accounting for the image. In 1978, there was a group of scientists that were the group of scientific analysis of the shroud.

It was a, they took about a year to do it. I know many of the people who were on that exhibit and that scientific trip. I communicate with them. There's a shroud group on the Internet that I watch and follow. But I know these people, and I've interviewed them, and they studied the shroud. There is no paint on the shroud. There's not a painted image. And no one's been able to duplicate the image or even come close today.

The idea that it was a medieval forgery came from the carbon dating. But the carbon dating was again flawed. There was a small piece in the edge of the shroud that was taken for the carbon dating. And that had been rewoven in the medieval times when there had been a forewomen. fire and damaged the shroud. And so the medieval cotton was in the sample that they took, and that was what drew the carbon dating off. And there's been ex-eyed. I, see, I constructed this book as a novel. And the novel is really about a priest who dies and comes back to life with a mission, and he begins suffering the effects of the, as if he were Christ.

being crucified. So he goes through these kind of transcendental moments where his body is being exhibiting the scourging, exhibiting being nailed to the cross and his mind is back at that moment. He is Jesus on that moment. Now just to

help the audience understand where you're getting this idea from, there have been in the history of the Catholic Church these men and women who have suffered ostensibly what are called stigmata. In other words, their hands are bleeding as though with the nail wounds of Christ. Padre Pio is the most famous in our lifetimes

who suffered this. There's controversy around that, but folks like you and me believe that in most cases this was real, that this was an extreme evidence of holiness that somebody would suffer the wounds of Christ. Well, and also, I mean, so my main character is a psychiatrist in New York. who had Dr. Castle, and I've had a lot of experience with psychiatrists. I did a lot of work on terrorism.

My life and background have been so complex. I'm not sure anyone will ever put it all together. But I had an international group of psychiatrists that I worked with for years on terrorism. I got to know them very well. They wanted me to be a psychiatrist. I chose not to. But the point is the psychiatrist is not a believer. He's an atheist. but he's close to the Catholic Church in New York, and so the Archbishop in New York recruits him. This is the character in the book. In the book, Dr. Castle, to interview this priest

because the priest is now beginning to become a sensation. He's exhibiting the wounds of Christ. He's being hospitalized. The wounds heal very quickly, and he seems to be having now spiritual powers. He's beginning to tell people things about their lives. He's being to cure people. And the church, including the Vatican,

says, we've got to know whether this is real or not. Is this guy, you know, a psychotic? Is this a psychotic episode or is this happening? So they recruit a very top psychiatrist in New York, who's an atheist, to basically interview the priest and find out whether it's real or not real. And Dr. Castle, the psychiatrist, fictional, begins with the presumption that this priest is suffering some kind of an erotic episode. And this is not real, but it's a psychosis that's manifest.

itself in physical symptoms. And what happens is, as he begins, as Dr. Castle begins to investigate it and learn more about the shroud and get to know the priest. And as the book unfolds, Dr. Castle begins to say, now, I can't dismiss this altogether. So he has to start taking it more and more seriously. He gets into the evidence on, you know, even Padre Pio, I've got a, Dr. Castle goes to a friend in Italy and says, duplicate the evidence. The Shroud. Well, this friend Gabrieli, who make up, is somebody who's been debunking the church.

You've created characters and you create a story, all of which serves to educate the reader on the reality of this thing called the Shroud of Turin. We'll be right back with Dr. Jerome Corse. We're talking to Dr. Jerome Corse. The book is The Shroud Codex, which is a fictional thriller book dealing with the reality of this amazing thing called the Shroud of Turi. Now, I remember myself hearing about the Shrout of Turin, and then, I guess it was in the late 80s or something that the carbon dating, they said, oh, yeah, it's a medieval forgery because the carbon dating says 1,400, 400, whatever. But you just said that subsequently they know that, yes, in that time it was rewoven because there'd been a fire. So there's a lot of complex issues, including the pollen. I remember reading a book. It must have been in the 90s that some folks had written saying that microscopically, of course, you can study the pollen that's on this shroud. And the pollen is not from Italy.

It's from the Holy Land. We're talking about plants and spores and things that are from the Holy Land that are in the Shard. So there's a lot of tremendous scientific investigations that are. that have gone into figuring out, is this real? And the typical image of Jesus that we have, the picture of Jesus, has been since the 1300s the picture of the man in the shroud. I mean, you could do the points of the face, you can do the points of the body, and that image has made such a powerful impact.

Their images back to the first century of Christ that look just like the shroud. This shroud has been, in terms of the history, which is in the lore of it, not entirely all documented, but the image in that shroud is the image you'll see of Christ today, and what I'm saying is that this is the photograph of Christ. Now, my challenge here was to,

I wanted to write a book, a novel, that would be fascinating enough for people to get involved in it. And I wanted to be from the skeptics point of view. This Dr. Castle doesn't believe any of this. Right. So the book, doesn't start out to convince you. The book starts out to show you all the reasons it can't be possible. Well, and listen, there's nothing good about being gullible and there's nothing good

about believing in things that aren't true. So I think that a lot of times Christians want to believe in something. And I say to them, you should only want to believe in what's true. God doesn't need you to put English on the ball, to gilder the lily. The truth is good enough. And so being skeptical about this kind of thing is healthy. I would say that is the biblical view is that you want to know what is true. So you get into this stuff and you have these skeptics in the book looking at it. But there's so many pieces to it. I mean, for example, when you talk about, I never really thought of this until I read your book.

You put this in the book that there are two types of images registered on the cloth. One of those images would have been created by the radiation or whatever it is from the moment of resurrection. there's a photograph and we have a photographic image created by the heat and the light of this moment of resurrection. Okay, we got it. But then two days

before, when the bloody corpse of Jesus was laid on this linen cloth, an image would have been made at that moment on Friday afternoon, Good Friday, and that would have been an image not of

radiation but of blood. Yes. And of serum. And again, it would have been the image that is the radiation image is the body suspended, whereas these other images that are on the shroud or a body that was laying on the crowd, so the body was pressed down. So they wouldn't be the same because the body suspended would have all the features together intact. I didn't totally understand that part when I got to the end of the book and you referred to this,

but just to be clear for the audience. So there's two moments where an. image is made. One is the weight of a corpse with blood in these exact spots is put on it, and the blood, of course, gets into the cloth and congeals. There is also blood and serum, which is the side wound, would have been not blood, but the blood had already begun to separate inside the dead body, and when the spear pierces the body, what comes out is. It's not exactly blood. That's right.

It's this type of hemoglobin you would get from exactly that kind of wound. And the reason I wrote the book the way I did is I had to make myself, I said, okay, now I'm going to be skeptical, but find all the reasons why this isn't authentic. And as I did that and really got deeply into the science, it became more and more convincing. I mean, I spent a lot of time in Turin talking to the experts there, talking with the church seeing it myself. and going into the depth of the details is where this book, I think, really, to me, was the power of writing it. And I love the character.

This Dr. Castle is very fascinating. He doesn't end up at the end of the book really believing it. I mean, some mystical things happen in the course of this book. And it begins to manifest that, you know, this may be a multidimensional experience. We may have had a transition, the moment of resurrection. that can be physically seen as evidenced in the shroud that was a transition between this world and the next world. It was a true almost relativity type experience.

And as I studied it, I began to see that in the shroud. I began to understand that. Then you go back and you read the Bible and you see, you know, in the passion of Jesus Christ, these details. And you begin to really, again, re-appreciate how precise the Bible is in detail. and how well that detail is preserved in minute aspects of the detail in the shroud image.

That's what's so amazing. I mean, we have to be clear that the more you look into this, the more you cannot believe, if somebody had wanted to create a hoax, wanted to create a thing, it doesn't make sense. There is no genius in the world capable of knowing the future and knowing what a photographic image is. You know, why wouldn't they have used paint? Why would they in the 13th century have tried to create this image using?

And by the way, what are they, what is anybody who doesn't believe this is true, even saying the images made with? They don't even have words for this. It's never been able to be really duplicated, even today with modern technology. It's not been able to be duplicated. And I go through all the different theories that Leonardo da Vinci created it. I mean, again, the Leonardo, this was beyond what, Leonardo, I, No, no, I've also written books on Leonardo.

He was brilliant. He could not have mastered this. He did do dissections of people, one of the first to do dissections. He knew anatomy, but his anatomies are crude in comparison to this. I mean, this is the shroud codex, the author Jerome Corsi, stick around. That you've left behind. Learn from science, the more it points to the authenticity of the Bible, to the God scripture and it makes me feel like we're living in the end times that god has preserved these

things for this skeptical era in which we live so that anyone uh who is not inclined to believe has has more and more and more evidence to deal with it becomes difficult when you read a book like your book the shroud codex or you look into this you think at least i know i've got a problem i cannot dismiss this easily? I thought your book was very powerful on that point. And I really read it and absorbed it and agreeing completely. You know, the big bang, the moment of creation, you know, the moment let there be light, that you point out. I believe that the shroud has been around for all these since Jesus Christ died. I believe it is the original shroud. I believe it's coming out today. I wrote this book 10 years ago and had very difficult time getting anybody to pay any

attention to it. And then suddenly now, with you are paying attention to it and some others, but, you know, it's as if this is the moment God wants it looked at. It was created for this moment. Because if the world gets the idea and can look at the evidence, see that we might have an actual photograph of the moment of resurrection, that Jesus Christ lived and the resurrection happened, that's an idea that can change the world. Oh, there's no doubt about it. But I also So I just find it fascinating God's timing and his sense of humor that he does not, for his mysterious reasons in his sovereignty, he lets us wait till 2022 before he reveals certain things. And what you have in this book, I mean, toward the end of the book, you get into this idea of, you know, how this image would have been made. because we said before that a lot of people said,

oh, it's a medieval forgery. Somebody in the medieval era was trying to create a fake relic, a relic that they could convince was whatever. So how would they have done that? And you say, well, some genius would have painted it or whatever. Well, we now know there is no paint involved. None at all. There's no pigment of painted at all.

So what do you say, and I know you're writing another book about this, but what do we theorize could have created this magnificent image? Well, there's some actual scientists at CERN, which is one of the major scientific laboratories in Switzerland looking at particle physics, which is a very, you know, part of quantum physics and relativity theory. And they have a couple of scientists there who actually made DVDs and have argued, as I believe, that this is a moment of a transcendental moment when the body of Christ crucified dead, actually levitated. So the shroud, which is

wrapped around the body, wrapped around the head, this long piece of cloth, 14 feet long, wrapped around the head to cover the front of Christ when he was laid in the tomb. And when the moment of this image gets placed on the shroud, the body is suspended. Now you can know that

because the features of the body show no indentation as if the body were lying on the linen. You're not seeing the evidence of gravity and weight. Not at all. It's completely weightless. And the flash that created this seared the very top threads, the linen, it does not penetrate deep into the cloth. In fact, when you first see the shroud, you probably won't even see the image. It takes a while before your eyes begin to see the image.

And then you're seeing a negative. You're not seeing, you're like a photographic negative. The dark parts are actually the light. You know, the light parts are actually the dark. And so it is a photographic made by radiation, like a blast of radiation at the instant of the resurrection. The soul comes back into the dead body. And that's preserved on the cloth by searing the very, very top fibers, just the top fibers. And there's no paint.

There's no indication at all. There's no bleeding of the paint into the cloth. If these top fibers go away, you won't see the image at all. It's literally not in the cloth. It's above the cloth, as it were, embedded in these very top fibers. The book is The Shroud Codex. My guest has been Jerome Corse. Dr. Corsey, thank you so much.