The Eric Metaxas Show - Jim Domen (Encore)

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

An encore presentation of our Miracle Monday with Jim Domen

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Today's Monday, and Monday is typically the day when we do what we like to call Miracle Monday. Every now and again, I hear a story, and I say everybody needs to hear this story. We need hope. We live in a world where there's often very little hope. I was in San Jose, California a couple months ago. Pastor Mike McClure, who heads up the church there, Calvary San Jose,

has been in a tremendous battle with the county, which is San Jose, San Francisco County, whatever. They're just evil. They're anti-church. They're anti-Christian. You know, all that great stuff you hear about. And they've persecuted him. He just won a major legal victim.

there. But there are heroes out there and when I can speak in their churches or help them in any way, have them on this program. So Mike McClure and San Jose, Calvary, San Jose, I just want to say, I thank God for them. But the last time I was there, one of the folks that I met there was a guy named Jim Domen, and Jim Domen, D-O-M-E-N, start telling me a story, and I thought, wait a minute, what? This is an amazing story. I want to have you on my radio program to talk about this story. Jim Domen, welcome. Hey, it's great to be here. Praise the Lord. And what a cool thing to meet you. Well, you, you are more than kind. I got to tell you when I heard your story, listen, one of the things, one of the reasons I do what I do is because I know that we live in this kind of sick, secular,

leftist culture where you hear certain narratives over and over and over again, and then you don't hear the other side of the story. Correct. We don't exist. It's almost like we don't exist. Well, yes. People like you don't exist. And I thought, you know, anytime I have an opportunity to get stories out there like your story, I said, there are people whose lives depend on hearing your story. And I want to do everything I can to get your story and stories like yours out there. So I'm happy that you've written a book. It's called Not a Mistake. Parents hope for their gay son.

Not a mistake. Okay, let's start at the beginning. Sure. How'd you grow up? When did you find that you had same-sex attraction? What is your story? And again, the book, folks, is not a mistake. But, Jim, tell us the story.

Well, I grew up in a Christian family. You know, Eric, every family is dysfunctional. Every family. We're all in need of a Savior. His name is Jesus. But our Christian family was on the side of the functioning and not dysfunctional. My dad was an LA County Sheriff, my mom, a school librarian at a Christian school. And so we had a very solid, healthy Christian upbringing, go to church Sunday night, or Sunday mornings, Sunday mornings, involved in youth group, children's programs, kind of your typical Christian, all-American family. But at the age of 13, I started realizing I was attracted. to men, to boys. If you remember the show Chips, I was attracted to John, one of the police officers on the show. So not punch, but John. Correct.

It was a punch, but John. I was attracted to Punch. Okay. Well, actually, that's not true. But close enough. I was attracted to Co-Jack. No, I mean, you know, when you say this, though, right? Yeah.

Part of the narrative out there is like, you're gay, you're straight, and you start realizing, no. The biblical narrative, the narrative of reality is that every single one of the, you're us is broken. Yes. The only question is the details. How does it express itself? Every single one of us is broken. So you have heterosexually attracted brokenness and you have, you have every kind of brokenness. So we're told like, you know, you're this, you're this and you think, no, we're all sinners. We're all broken. So your experience is similar to the experience of tons of people, most of whom won't talk about it. But Eric, I didn't realize that. And

until I was a grown man after I'd left homosexuality, meeting in men's groups, and hearing other men share, confess their sins or struggles, thinking, I'm no different than any other man. But for the longest time, I was so different because I struggled with same-sex attraction. So you said, so you're a teenager, and you begin. Junior high, so kind of early, early teens. Right. So you begin realizing that I'm different. Do you tell your parents? Heck no.

No, of course not. Yeah. And so I start praying. I start saying, Lord, help me with this. I don't understand. I know homosexuality is a sin. Scripture is very clear on this. But even though I am praying and talking to the Lord,

those desires aren't changing. Okay, now, and let me say also to be clear, right? When we say homosexuality is a sin, we don't mean to be attracted to someone. It's to, do you follow up on that, right? Because there are plenty of heterosexuals who are attracted to women to whom they're not married. Correct.

Now, if you follow up, on that and it becomes sexual, that becomes sin. But our broken desires, our wrong desires, if you say, if you reject them, then, you know, because we're all tempted to do wrong things. Temptation is the key thing here. Just because you're tempted with any sin, whatever you might be or sin of choice, just because you're tempted is not mean it's a sin. It's when you act out upon it. Right. And so people are being told, hey, if you have that feeling, you need to act on that feeling. And you and I know, no. Self-control.

No, I don't need to act on that feeling. If that feeling is a gift from God, is genuinely a gift from God, and God wants me to act on that feeling, well, that's one thing. But I've got plenty feelings throughout the day that it's God's will that I don't act on those feelings. But that narrative is not being told in the culture. So a young man like you with these experiences, you're hearing one thing, except from the church where you might be hearing the right thing. but the culture is telling you this is who you are. Correct. Correct.

That you are literally identified by your sexual orientation, your sexual, whatever you feel like. That's your identity. And we know as Christians are identities in Christ. But again, like we said, as this youth, what do you do? And these desires weren't changing. I ended up sharing with my parents when I was a sophomore in high school. I shared with the youth pastor, hey, these feelings, these emotions aren't going away. I keep praying, talking to God, and I was very embarrassed about it.

it. And he says, I think you need to tell your parents. And I did. And I shared with my dad, and he broke down sobbing. And I'd never seen my dad cry. He was a drill instructor, one of the positions he held at the L.A. County Sheriff's Academy. And so you can kind of get the idea. He's an army background, very, you know, big, strong, influential dude. And here I'm seeing him crying for the first time. When I come to found out later in life, he was crying because I was struggling all alone and no one there to help me, which really just revealed the heart of my dad. You know, until you yourself

become a parent, it's impossible for you to know the love that most parents have for their kids. It's just, it's a depth, it's something that's so, so when your kid does the wrong thing, or when your kid suffers or any of this, it affects

you in a way that the kid will never understand until they themselves have kids. So your father breaks down because of his love for you. Yeah, that I was struggling all alone and had no one to share or walk this burden with. That is so beautiful.

Now, what happens to you at this point? So we ended up meeting with my youth pastor and he recommended counseling. Thankfully, it wasn't, quote unquote, banned in California at a great Christian psychiatrist or psychologist that journeyed with me to help me understand as a 16-year-old boy, root causes a same-sex attraction,

that it's a legitimate need for a boy to connect with his dad. And when that doesn't happen, it can become sexualized like it did with me. And then now the unfamiliar that I don't know, male, men, I want to connect with it. So I had a legitimate need that was never met. And by the way, I just want to say the exact same thing happens in heterosexual relationships. You'll find a woman who has a certain wounding or didn't get something from her father. And she looks for that in a man, in a partner. oftentimes chooses the wrong partner because it was chosen out of that woundedness.

And so that goes in both directions. Folks, this is called reality. This is called being a human being. Sure. So you find a counselor who is walking you through this, but what happens after that? Because you eventually do drift away. So he helped lay a solid foundation of understanding, not only psychologically, biblically, and kind of connecting those dots. I really attribute that, I'll say education or understanding to when I came back to the Lord, I had that foundation.

Okay, when we come back, folks, the book is not a mistake. Jim Doman is my guest. As you know, our friend Mike Lindell has a friend, a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. He didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow. Mike created the best bed sheets ever. They look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep for me, which is crucial for my busy schedule. Mike is offering the best deal on his Giza dreams bed sheets. Any size and any color, just 4998. That's right. You can even get Queens, Kings, Split Kings, and Cal Kings. Any size, any color, just 4998. Order now because when they're gone, they're gone. Also for a limited time when your

order is over $100. You'll receive $100 in free digital gifts. Call 1-800-9-7-3-0-5-7. Use the promo code Eric or go to MyPillow.com. Make sure you use the promo code Eric for the amazing offer, 4998 on the Giza Dream Sheets, any size, any color of the number. Again, 1-800-9783057, 1-1-800-3057. The promo code is Eric or please go to mypillow.com, my pillow.com. Use the code, Eric. It's Miracle Monday. Lucky you. I found someone to tell me a miraculous redemptive story. His name is Jim Domen. The book is not a mistake. Parents hope for their gay son. So you're telling us that your father loves you. You get good Christian counseling, and it lays this kind of foundation. But what happens after that? So I wanted to love and be loved, and God's plan wasn't going to work for me if I'm

attracted to men. And so I just said, God, I've had it. I'm going to go do what I want to do. Hear me. It's all about me. I want to do this. Me, me, me, me. And I chose to go into the gay lifestyle. How old were you? 23. And actually what triggered it, I was living in Bermuda at the time and got fired. I was accused of being gay. And I was a virgin, saving myself for marriage. But my boss is like homosexuality is illegal in Bermuda. And my net worth is at stake. I'm firing you. And you can go back to the United States. Okay, this is a crazy part of the story. We don't have time for right now, because it's so crazy, but it's in the book, not a mistake. Anyway, the bottom line is you have lived faithfully, you know, you're a virgin, you're 23, but something about that makes you say,

I've had it. Yep. If I'm going to be ostracized for somebody I'm not, I might as well come out and do it. And this is why, because you were, you seemed effeminate. You seem, in other words, did they see, Did you seem to them to be gay even though you're not acting on that? Because that's a whole other conversation. I invited, I was lonely. I was living by myself, and I'm not going to move in with a girl. You know, I wanted that wouldn't look good. Obviously.

So I, yeah, thank you. So I invited a buddy of mine who was very good looking, handsome. And then people, when my boss said, how many beds are in your, in your apartment, I knew where this was going. I mean, anyway. So he assumed that something was going on that was not going on. How bizarre. It was. And so as a result of the.

this, you get fired. I get fired. And, but what does that do to you? Why does that turn you into the gay lifestyle away from God? Because I had been secretly been struggling with this internally. And then I just said, if I'm going to get ostracized, then I might as well do it. Right. And I came out in Portland, Oregon in shortly thereafter. So you moved to Portland, Oregon. Correct. And you decided to go into this lifestyle. Do your parents know about this? Not really. I didn't want to discuss these topics with them. but in 1999, I moved back home. My dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Thankfully, they removed it non-cancerous.

And I went home to just kind of help out, help my mom during that period of time and ended up meeting a man in Palm Springs. And that's kind of when that came out. So you decide to go with it. Do you turn away from God or did you continue to somehow have a relationship with God? Well, I completely turn away from God.

Don't want anything to do with Christians to church because I don't want to be convicted, Eric. I don't want that conviction. And I really believe we believe a lie. It's this narrative that I'm really a gay man. It's a false narrative because you have to keep telling yourself the lie. I'm normal. This is who I am.

Hear me roar. Why don't heterosexual people run around in half heterosexual pride? No, but I mean, it's the same thing. It's kind of like if you're married and you get in a fight with your wife and then you meet someone who is amazing and wonderful, whatever you think, like, you know what, I must just be with the wrong person, or maybe God made me to be an adulterer.

I need to be with other women. Sure. We are all messed up. And if the whole world is telling you, yes, yes, she's not your soulmate. Go with her, go with whoever you met that weekend. If the whole culture is telling you that, you start thinking, oh, well, I guess that would be normal.

I guess I'll go in that direction. They don't tell you where it leads. Sure. They're not honest about the details. But you, how long were you in that lifestyle? Five years, from 23 to 28. And during that period, I thought I had found freedom. Finally, I'm out.

I told my parents. Actually, my mom, my parents sat me down and said, Jim, you've been acting really strange. You're not home. You never see us. You're like a, you know, we never see you anymore. going on and I said, I met someone. We're around the kitchen table and my mom said, is it a man or a woman? And I said a man. And she cried at that point. But I just had kind of

decided to pack my bags and move out to Palm Springs from Orange County. This is heartbreaking stuff because I know there are people listening now who have kids on this journey, who I have friends on this journey. This is hard stuff. And I think we have to be honest, folks. This is hard stuff. And we should never ever pretend that we can understand what someone's going through. I mean, I've never struggled with same-sex attraction, but I think to myself, how tough that would be when somebody says, oh, just blow it off. It's just not God's will. It's like, well, yes, except do you understand what you're asking? This is hard for people, and we have to be honest. That's why people, we need to

love those who are dealing with this, not by saying it's a good thing, but by saying, I will walk with you through this, because we all have our own struggles. Nobody knows what someone else is going through. So you went through this for five years. What happened in the course of that that made you, what happened eventually? Well, you said, you had asked me a question earlier a little bit, did I know God or was God speaking to me? And I would never, ever admit this to anyone. He still would speak to me. And actually my partner and I got in a fight one night in our dining room out in Palm Springs and the Lord said, you're going to be sharing your story publicly someday. And I'll never forget. I looked up the ceiling. I'm like, how can I be sharing my story? I'm sleeping with men.

You know, I have a partner yet, but God never left me. I mean, I've been to 40 countries. You can't outrun God. You know, I'll be on a plane with turbulence. And I'm thinking, well, if you throw me out, everybody will survive, kind of like the Jonah thing. I was being disobedient. God never left. I'd never admit to that. And like I said, I didn't, want to be convicted, but had two Christian friends that never gave up on me. Like you said, they journey with me. They called and actually said, Jim, how can we pray for you? Or they'd visit me in my art gallery. My partner was an artist. I ran the business. And one of them said, Michelle, she said, have you been reading your Bible? And about six months before coming back,

I said, no, I'm afraid it will change me. I knew the truth. And I did, but I did not want to admit that. I wouldn't admit that to anybody. So I remember you told me this story, your partner, had, or I can't remember, did we do this on Skype on this program, or did we do this in person? I can't remember when you, I know your story. Yeah. Did we do a Skype thing? No, we didn't. No, we didn't.

We just talked in San Jose. You had, I was going to say, you told me this story when we were together in San Jose, Mike McClure's church, and it's an amazing thing. So you're living with a man who has an art gallery. Things are going well. You're running the art gallery with him, which is kind of like a gay cliche, right? And in Palm Springs. And in Palm Springs.

And so what is? happened you get in a fight with him something happened so he was a pot addict always smoking pot alcohol alcoholic and i'm just like was going to these allanon groups i i didn't know idea what alan on and aa was well now i know because i'm like you know this is crazy the sickness i'm taking this verbal abuse and all this stuff and i actually decided i'm gonna pack my bags and go to do something else well he ended up kicking me out of the house switching all of our accounts meaning taking all the funds out i mean we sold high-end art and he and he's took all the money out, put in another account.

So I went from everything to nothing in a matter of an hour. And so you're 28 years old. Yep. And I found myself, we had some gay friends across the street that owned an apartment building said, you can move in, you don't just move in. You have a safe place to go. And that night in Palm Springs, it's a hundred, you know, so in the hundreds, I laid on the floor of an apartment with nothing but the clothes on my back and nothing in the

apartment, no AC, and it's looked up the ceiling. I said, God, I'm yours again. And that next morning, he, he. He provided, did a miracle, Miracle Monday. He put, he left $5 laying on the street next to, on public street next to my car. And I grabbed, I picked up that five bucks. And he said, I took care of the Israelites in the desert and I'll take care of you and yours. And I went to Denny's to get a $2.99 grand slam breakfast.

But in Joe Biden's economy, I think you know this. I think God would have had to at least leave a 20. I was going to say it would have to be 20. Your whole story is a miracle. So sometimes there are little miracles and things. but these stories of redemption because we live in a world that says this can't happen. A man can't go from being same-sex attracted at age 13 and living the gay lifestyle to coming out of that lifestyle and getting married.

And with that, we can't talk about that. We can't talk about Anne Hage being the poster girl for lesbian America, leaving Ellen DeGeneres and getting married to a man. and have any, we can't, that reality cannot be acknowledged. We can never talk about that. Isn't that wild? I've been wiped off internet platforms, Eric, because I told not only mine, but my whole nonprofit, Church United, totally deleted and removed by Vimeo because of my story.

Because I shared, I was transformed. Yeah, it's just too, listen, reality is too painful for a lot of people. Truth hurts, and they don't want to hear it. they, you know, it happens in every kind of form. We live in a broken, sick world. Sure. But there are certain kinds of stories and stories that I want to tell on this program. A woman who has been healed of abortion, who has been through that story, who has had the pain of an abortion, this says Jesus forgave me. And when I was honest with myself, that this was something I did that hurt me, that was not a good thing, that those stories, Oprah never had those people, those women on to tell

those stories, even though there are zillions of them out there, and there are zillions of folks like you have to, those stories can't be told. It's against the narrative. We can't, we have to hide those people in addicts. That's what we do. Those are the kinds of people we hide in addicts today. So when we come back, we'll continue the story. The book is not a mistake. Parents hope for their gay son. Jim Domen, D-O-M-E-N is the author. Don't go away. going out while you are coming in and I'm just sitting wondering where you've been all of my life. Folks, welcome back talking to Jim Domen, B-O-M-E-N. The book is not a mistake.

Parents hope for their gay son. Okay, so you're 28, your boyfriend throws you out, you're sleeping on a floor, and you give your life to God. Having no clue, by the way, what God's going to do. So what does God do? Well, one of my guests is evangelism. The next thing I know, I find myself at Denny's, and I'm telling the black manager, who probably thought I was crazy, God just did this miracle. I had no money, and there was $5 laying on the street.

And so this kind of heart. You had no money for food. Yeah, I had no money for food. I had debt on credit cards. That was it. You find a $5 bill next to your car and enables you. to have a big breakfast. And so you're excited.

Because, I mean, I wrote a book about miracles. God does these kinds of little miracles sometimes just to let us know. Yes. He is really with us. So he did that for you to say, hey, by the way, I'm tracking with you, Jim. I'm with you. I'm with you. Stay tuned.

So what happens next? I'm still gay. You know, there's war raging for my soul. I'm a homosexual, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I called those two Christian friends and said, you're not going to believe what happened. I've moved out. And I literally was telling them,

you better start praying for me. And my mind, it was like my mind was as soon as I get right back on my feet, I'm going right back into homosexuality. And then there was the other part of me that was, wow, God's doing something here. And there was just literally this battle for my soul. And my parents said,

why don't you come home and live with us? Eric, I've been to like 40 countries. I've traveled the world. I had my own home, my own business. I'm going to go back home with mommy and daddy. Are you kidding me? but that was what I needed. The Lord knew that, that I could heal and restore the relationship between my father and I.

Now, he never abused me, no verbal abuse, anything like that, but I wasn't athletic. I didn't connect with him. My brother and sister connected well with them. I didn't. And, you know, I was always the last kid picked for sports. So just kind of that oddball child. But yet, as a grown man at the ages for 28, they started paying the minimums on my credit card. So I wasn't a total financial loss.

and really got to invest in a relationship with my dad. They loved you. They did. They loved their son. I got to tell you this. So my wife's reading the book right before it goes to publishing. And she's crying. I'm like, oh, I got her.

I got her. I'm like, honey, what did I write that made you cry? This is why she keeps me humble. She's good for me. She says, honey, it's nothing you wrote. It's what your parents showed you. They have shown you the love of God. And I've never heard them hold any of this against

you. I've known you for 14 years, and all I've seen them is love you continuously. Well, it's why we're having this conversation, because the love of Jesus, through your mother and father, touched you and changed you. So what happens eventually? In other words, what year are we talking about at this point? So this is June 8th, 2002, is when I found the $5. I came back to the Lord, so just celebrated 20 years of walking with the Lord again. little did I know. Eric, I wanted nothing to do with the church. I wanted to be Jesus with skin on to a lost and dying world who desperately needed him.

And 20 years ago, or more than 20, the church wasn't that to the LGBTQ community. And I had a mentor. I wanted to go get my MBA, you know, make a lot of money, that kind of thing. And a mentor say, why don't you go to seminary, get like a master of divinity, and help equip the church how to deal with some of these issues? And I said, okay, that makes sense. I can exponentially share my message. instead of one voice, share it with many.

And now I run an organization with over 2,500. California pastors are growing nationally internationally, helping encourage the church to stay truthful and set people free. And by the way, what's the name of that organization? Churchunited.com. Churchunited.com. And if people go there, what will they find? They'll see that Church United is focused on helping pastors engage in government.

Have a voice in government like we see all throughout scripture. I love it. So what how did you, now how do you process this, though, because you've been same-sex attracted? How do you go gay to straight? Well, but I'm saying, you know, even when you say that, right, it's kind of like, let's say, I always think about the heterosexuals out there who are, they're saying, well, I've never been attracted to somebody of the same sex, but I'm married. I've been attracted to people other than my wife. I've been attracted to people other than my husband, if I'm a woman.

And, you know, they choose to be faithful because they know it's the right thing. Correct. How do you process that at this point? Did you suddenly reawaken? Did you reawaken your desire for women? Like, how does that, you know, because I know that every story is different. Sure. I have so many male friends that have been on this journey, but every one of their stories has been different.

So I would say I was 100. 10% homosexual on the spectrum. You couldn't get more gay. I almost found women repulsive. So how do you go from there to being married and having kids? In 2005, I was driving on Yorba Linda Boulevard in Yorba Linda. It's North Orange County, home of Richard Millhouse Nixon. Anyway, driving down the street and the Lord says, when I heal you, you can't

lest after women like you've lusted after men. And I remember, you know, so God spoke this to you. Yeah. And I remember, sure. You heard this as an inner voice. Correct. God says, when I heal you. Yes.

In other words, when I heal you from your same sex attraction and make you attracted to women, you cannot, I'm not giving you permission to lust after women like you do. The way that you've lusted after men. Yep. That's a pretty big miracle when God speaks that.

Yeah, 100%. But let me also share this. I'm not 100% set free for my same sex attraction. I need to be very, very clear on that. And everyone always wants to ask, are you still tempted? Are you still attracted? Of course I am.

I'm in a broken, fallen world. If I had to sin a choice, I know what I'm going to choose. And you know what? I hate to share this with my audience, but neither am I perfect. Oh, I thought you were. Yeah. That's why I came on the show, Eric. I just wanted to let you know that I still struggle with sin.

All kinds of sin. Sure. Every kind of sin. That's why we need a savior, and that's why we say, thank you, Jesus, for being my We'll be right back talking to Jim Doman. The book is not a mistake. We're talking to Jim Doman. The book is not a mistake.

Parents hope for their gay son. So you're telling me that not long after you've made this decision to walk with God, you back home to your parents, God speaks to you. Yeah. And says, when I heal you. So he says he's going to heal you. So what year was that? 2005.

Okay. And when did you experience some kind of palpable healing or change after that? Well, I'm smiling because I was asking girls out on dates. I was a singles pastor at her church. And, you know, go on a date and I'm like, things are, I look down at myself. I'm like things, the plumbing is working as it should towards a member of the opposite sex. So you're a young man who for the first time is experiencing a attractive. action to young women. This is happening to you in your, like, you're 30. Correct. So just that,

Jim, that rocked me. I'm kind of like, wait a minute. What's going on here? This is what dudes feel like. But this is what's so interesting to me is that there are people out there that would say, that can never happen. You are gay, period. End of discussion. 110% homosexual. I mean, I was there. And you're telling me you turn your life over to God. And again, this is not that this happens to everyone who is struggling. I mean, look, it doesn't matter what you're struggling with. There are people that are addicted to every kind of thing. We are all sinners. So just because you turn your life over to God doesn't mean he's going to miraculously heal you in this way or this way or this way, but he does. He can. And I know people that they say that one day I had zero

desire for cocaine. It was gone. And it was a miracle. You hear these stories over and over and over. And we need to simply tell these stories. And so what you're telling you are. me is that somehow in God's way he brings a change so fundamental it's an amazing thing but there are people again they would say like

that can't happen this guy's lying I don't want to hear this shut up well we're not going to shut up because this is bringing hope to people who need hope so we don't have a ton of time so we just have to leap ahead here so what happens next so I start I'm going to three churches connecting in different men's

groups and there's a ministry out there called Desert Stream Ministries. Andy Kaminsky's the founder was birthed out of Vineyard Anaheim. They're now based in Missouri. And this is probably the premier global organization that hasn't capitulated to culture that is biblical of setting captives free from sexual sin. Originally, it started off with homosexual sin, but now they'll, they help anyone from traffic to sex addicts, you name it. They're probably the premier ministry. And I went to that program. It's called Living Waters. and they're in churches all across America and the globe,

where they help people understand some of these issues and get inner healing, mentally, physically, and get set free from the stuff. Now, when I say set free, it doesn't mean you're perfect. Everybody's stories different. It doesn't mean you're without temptation, but you can walk in the freedom that Jesus Christ provides. Well, that's the point.

It's like we're always going to be broken and in need of Jesus, but it doesn't mean we're always going to be wallowing in our sin and giving into our sin, we can have victory. We can walk in victory. It's Romans 8. You know, it's Romans 8 instead of being in Stect in Romans 6. It's our growth, our walk with their spirit, our walk with God. Okay, so do you meet your wife soon thereafter?

How does this work? So that was a miracle. One of the chapters, A Divine Mistake in the book, I should never have met my wife. She worked at APU and the graduate client services. I was getting my master divinity. The school mailed my diploma of the wrong address. Got returned.

They called me. hey, we have your diploma here. I said, I work really hard for that. I'm going to drive up on my lunch break and get it. Well, Amanda was the director of that department. So she's going to hold you, my wife, who's sitting over there. Yes. So wait, because of an error that was sent to the wrong place, you drove to this place

and you meet the woman who becomes your wife. And she shouldn't be behind the desk because her team of people help the graduate students. But she just happened to be in there when I walked in. I looked at her and I saw Jesus in her eyes. And she goes, why don't you as we're talking? She goes, checked my ID. Why don't you take your diploma out and read it? And as I read it, I said, this is a miracle.

I've come out of homosexuality. I just bought my first home. I'm a pastor and now my master of divinity. And she looked me right in the eye and she said, it sounds like God has restored the years, the locust of Eden. And I'm like, who's this? And I didn't say this out loud, but in my mind, I'm who's this chick, quoting Joel chapter two,

a minor prophet in the Old Testament. She's speaking my spiritual language. Christians don't know scripture like this. Who is this? And then she says, I have gay friends too. And I said, don't ever stop praying for them. My family prayed and fasted for me. Keep praying for them.

God can redeem them as well. And then you got married to this woman. Nine months later. Does anybody doubt that we serve a God who is sovereign? And she's beautiful. She's, my dad calls it God's gift from heaven. Look at her. She's beautiful.

I can't. because the camera's here. Well, I just want to say, though, seriously, like we have to understand, when we say God's in control and God's going to get, how insane, because you say, well, God, the odds are, there's not that many women in the city, there's no doubt it all.

God, when you give your life to Jesus, he can do things that are insane. He uses a clerical error. Your diplomas mailed to the wrong place, quote, unquote, to get you to meet the woman that you're going to marry. My bills never got sent to the wrong address. Figure that out, you know? That is it.

So what year was this? This was 2008 right before the people of California changed our Constitution, Article 1, Section 7.5, that only a man or a woman marriage is valid or recognized. So you are, so nine months after this, you get married to Amanda. Yeah. I mean, this is just such a beautiful, redemptive story. It's just nuts. I want people to know God is real.

Folks, excuse me, pardon me, God is real. This is called reality. God is real. When we open our hearts to him, we have no clue. By the way, we have no idea what he's going to do. You didn't know he was going to do this. You just know you can trust him and walk with him. And parents, I want you to know this.

We have a friend of ours who used to be the CEO of NBC Hawaii, okay? and has become a Christian. He asked my parents at the book release party. He said, would you ever in a million years, would you ever imagine you would be in your son's home with his wife, grandchildren, and a book sharing what God has done in his life?

It's beautiful. That's again, it's why when I met you and you told me this stuff, I thought, you've got to come on my program because there are people out there who need to know God is real. He is in the business of healing

and redeeming. We're out of time. I know people can find you at churchunited.com and the book is not a mistake. Jim Domen, just a joy to know you. Thank you for your candor and for being my guest. Thank you.

God bless you and your family. Folks, welcome back. You often hear me talk on this program about our friends at the Herzog Foundation. And I'm not blowing smoke. For example, Chris Stagall, welcome back to this program.

Eric, it's a thrill. Good to see you again, friend. You are like what, the content and communications director of the Herzog Foundation. Is that your title? Yeah, we make some shows here. I do some external communication with folks like you, so it's been a real privilege. Yes, sir. Well, what's new, Chris? I'm excited I get to actually talk to you. What's, what's, you know, it's, what are you guys working on? It's been a very, very interesting time, of course, given the election news that all of us are talking about. That kind of makes us rethink and imagine everything. Of course, President Trump's huge victory last week. And one of his pledges is I know you've talked with him.

I know you've spent some time with him. He has zeroed in on the Department of Education. He said that one of his top line item focuses is to rid the country of the Department of Education. Can you believe, I mean, I just want to say to people, ladies and gentlemen, can you believe we have lived to see this? I mean, this reminds me of during his first term when we're talking about energy, independence. I said, what? What? Are you kidding? Energy independence in America? Like, I grew up with gas lines, OPEC gas lines in the 70s. Like, I never dreamt we could have energy independence.

And under Donald Trump, we get that. I thought, I just didn't think I could live in a world where that's possible. So for him now to talk about abolishing this bloated tick on the body politic, which is known as the Department of Education, started by Jimmy Carter, 1979, I thought, I can't believe this. This is a dream come true to take all that money, to give it back to the States, to give it back to parents, to do with what they want. This is, this is an unbelievable moment in America in our history. And Eric, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm, what am I 47? So I'm not even, you know, when you say that, I think about 1979, like the Department of Education, is not as old as me, which, you know, some of these institutions, you think, oh, well, they've

been around too long. We can't touch them. That one seems like one of the easiest one to pick off. I know President Reagan wanted to do it. So I really, we really do hope Donald Trump can succeed here. Well, listen, I think we all know, you know, the theme, of course, is that federal oversight is un-American. We should have the smallest federal government necessary. And when it comes to stuff like educating your kids. You can do it locally. You can do it at the most on the state level, but the federal government has zero business in our Constitution. It has no right to be telling parents. Parents, by the way, can teach their kids anything they want and they can send them to any school they want. It's not the government's job to tell us what we need to teach our kids.

And so, you know, it's why I am such a big fan of the Herzog Foundation, because you guys get this. You're about homeschooling. You're about Christian schooling. You're about Christian schooling. This is the future of America. So, you know, I don't know what the next few years were tend, but I am absolutely excited. And as you, as you know, what we did see on various state ballots across the country, Eric, there were some efforts and successful, I'm sorry to say, to repeal some school choice measures in certain states last week. And it's simply because there's a ton of money in protecting the status quo. I don't have to tell you, billions of dollars, particularly from teachers unions that are fighting tooth and nail to stop parents from having the choice to take their tax dollars and spend it on their educational choice. So you can't rest on it. I mean, this is something that I think, frankly, as conservatives, we often, we get a little complacent. We have a big win like this and we think, well, that's settled. They never stop. They never stop. And they always find the funds. And teachers unions in particular are highly invested in maintaining that status quo and telling people that your children will never receive an education if,

the Department of Education doesn't exist or your school district doesn't exist. And look, we're not out to pick on people's schools or their school districts, but we are out to advocate for parents and say, you know best, you ought to get to educate your children the way you see best. That's the point.