The Eric Metaxas Show - Jim Ryun (Encore)

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Olympic Champion Jim Ryun, also called the greatest high-school athlete of all time, talks about the Olympics in Tokyo in 1964 and the Olympics in Tokyo today. (Encore Presentation)

Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Oh, hello. Folks, today is Wednesday. The Olympics is happening, evidently. I haven't been watching the Olympics. It's in Tokyo, Beijing. I really don't even know where it is happening. But actually, I do.

But listen, I'm really excited because I have as my guest, an Olympic champion, and way more. than an Olympic champion. Where do I begin? Before I introduce him, I will just tell you, Albert and I have mentioned this. Jim Ryan, who's my guest, he was a congressman from Kansas from 1996 to 2007. But that doesn't begin to describe him. He was probably the greatest high school athlete in the United States of America in any sport. Maybe that's debatable, but believe me, there are people who would say that. He's the first high schooler ever to break four minutes in the mile in high school in the early

60s. He's a legend in the world of track and field. And he is my guest. Jim, welcome to the program. Eric, It's great to be on with you. I'll never forget when I met you. I met you at Chuck Colson's memorial service.

I don't know if that's about eight or nine or ten years ago. I can't even remember when it was. But honestly, I was so thrilled to meet you. I couldn't believe that I was meeting you. I didn't know that you were a professing Christian. How's that for a good term? Professing. And to somebody who ran cross-country in high school

and who's been running through the decades to meet Jim Ryan, one of the world's greatest milers, just a joy. And then as I've gotten to know you and your wife and your son, Ned, I just thought, we've got to get you on the program. The Olympics is happening. and it's happening in Tokyo. Am I getting this right? Is it happening in Tokyo? It is. Tokyo, Japan, right.

1964, 57 years ago? I don't believe. It can't be 57 years ago. Can it be 57 years ago? Well, it was 57 years ago. In fact, in those days, when I went to the Tokyo Olympics, we had to fly through Anchorage, Alaska, because the planes weren't large enough with enough fuel to fly straight across the Pacific. So it was a different world in than it is now. Well, Jim, where do we start? I mean, you're in your 70s now, but you people will always talk about your teen years. Let's just start there for a minute, if you don't mind. I know you were in the Olympics a number of times.

I want to talk about the Olympics because people are talking about the Olympics. But how did you grow up and how did you get into running as a teenager? Well, I got into running because I failed at everything else. That explains it. When you cut from the church baseball team and you're cut from the junior high basketball team, there aren't a lot of other sports growing up in Wichita, Kansas, as you can try out for. So I stumbled into running track and field in junior high, but I never made the team. So when I went into high school, I happened to sign up for the cross-country team,

thinking it was fall track and field, but not understanding that it was a two-mile race. So for me, it was a real shock to my system. When I entered high school, the furthest distance I'd ever run before was a quarter mile, one lap around the track. So you can imagine my first day we're running up to this little park a mile away. That's four times further than it ever run before. Wait, were you about 14? How old were you when this happened? I was 15 at the time.

You were 15. You'd never run more than a quarter. We used to have to run the 600. That was my limit. So go ahead. Well, let me backtrack just a little bit, Eric. In junior high, we had, I think it was something part of the President's Council of Physical Fitness. They had a 600-yard run walk.

I lost to a girl, if any second. So there wasn't anything bright in the future. And just to be clear, it was a girl identifying as a girl, which is even worse. That's, the technicality, yes. But the 600, I remember the 600. The reason I ran the 600 was for the same thing. this kind of president's counsel on fitness or something like that. But so you didn't know that you were spectacularly gifted as an athlete until how old?

Well, and even, okay, so let me do this. I didn't know until after my coach convinced me that I could run, that I could become a really fine runner. And the background behind that were those failures. And at night I would go to bed and I would pray and I'd say, dear God, I want my life to amount to something. And, you know, nothing was going well. I'd recount to God my failures. And I'd say, and by the way, if you can show up in sports, I'd really like that. I'd say amen and go to sleep. I think I wore God out with my prayer so that when I entered high school, I went out again for the sport across country. And my first day was like this, Eric. Maybe it was something you had this

as well. I went home after workout, which was miserable. And mom had saved dinner. And I said, mom, I'm too tired. I can't eat. I'm going to bed. And so the next morning I woke. up. I shared a downstairs bedroom for my brother. And I remember rolling out of bed and couldn't really walk. I walked up the stairs backwards. I got upstairs and I said, Mom, I made a proclamation. I said, I'm not going to do cross country anymore. I'm too sore and stiff and I don't want to do this. It's too much pain. And so I went to school and after walking up and down three flights of stairs because our school was three levels. And my, if you will, my teammates said, are you coming back out? My first class period, I said no. By the time I got to the sixth class period, I found myself back out for the

cross-country team. Greatest decision I ever made, I know now was an answer to prayer, but it was very, very painful in the beginning. But it's just astonishing to me that you didn't even try to run any distance until you were 15. And two years later, you break the world record in high school. for the mile. I mean, that's, you have to understand, this is called genetics. This is raw talent. The idea that you were able to just discover this talent so late and then immediately capitalize on it.

Take us through those two years. How did you know that you would? Because, again, I want the headline for my listeners to understand that you broke the four-minute mile in high school. This is an unbelievable thing. It wasn't until Roger Bannister in the 50s broke the four-minute mile. He was after college, I guess. He was already a surgeon or something, a doctor.

But you did this as a high schooler. And two years before, you'd never run. So what were those two years like suddenly discovering this talent? Well, to begin with, it was very, very painful. I don't know whether if you're listening to you may have had them, too, shin splints. I had shinsplants the first six weeks that I ran, which is basically very painful for every step you take. But somehow God gave me the perseverance to go through that. And then I finally made C, the last place on the C team.

We had three levels of cross-country in high school, A, B, and C. I was the last person on the C team. And then this phenomenal thing happened, Eric, within the next six weeks, by the time we got to the state meet, I ended up being on the varsity team. and I finished six in the state meeting cross-country, and I was elated. I thought, this is grand, and the reason it was grand is because one of my goals was to make the team. One of my other goals was to get a girlfriend, and I got a letterjack, and I thought a girlfriend, and the letterjack went together, but it didn't.

So that was kind of the beginning for me, very infant steps, and then this phenomenal thing happened in the next six months where I went from a 538 mile to a 407 mile, which I still find hard to believe, and I see your eyes popping. Well, because I think I could have run a 538 mile when I was younger. Now, I'm not kidding. But that's it. You know, maybe if I had trained, I could have gone it down to 520 or so. I don't know.

But the idea that you had the ability to become one of the greatest milers in the history of running. Well, here's part of it, Eric, that sometimes doesn't get told. Like, God gave me a wonderful coach, Bob Timmons. and he was a goal-oriented dreamer. After my fourth, count, one, two, three, four high school miles. I'm riding the school bus from Kansas City back to Wichita, Kansas, and we're riding along Coach Timmons always had the policy when he had a moment like this to invite the athletes up to an empty seat in the bus.

My turn, I went up, and coach said, you know, you ran a really good mile, so I'd run a 421 mile that day. And so I thought, well, that's, and I had won. So I lost my first high school mile, and now we're in. my fourth one. I'm riding the bus. I'm from the front of Coach Timmons. And at that point he turned and he said, now how fast do you think he can run? Again, I'm a guy that

never has really run before, so I thought I'd be kind of adventurousome and think, well, two seconds faster. So I said, coach, I think I can run 419. He didn't really, he listened, but he skipped ahead and he said, I think you can be the school record holder at 408. And then he said, I think you can be the first

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Hey there, folks. I'm talking to a former congressman from the great state of Kansas and also the first person in the history of the world to, as a high schooler, run a sub-4-minute mile. Jim Ryan, you were 17 when that happened. You were just telling us the story of sitting with the coach, you had just run a 421 mile. Say that again what you just said at the end of the last segment because there's just something really beautiful about this. So Coach Timmons had challenged me

saying how fast do you think he can run. I gave him a time. He then came back and said, I think you can be the school record holder. Well, I knew the school record holder was the national record holder, 408. And I'm listening. I'm thinking, but I ran 421 and my head hurt, my legs, everything. How old were you at that point before we get the... 16. So, okay, so you're 16, and so what are you, a sophomore at that point? I am a sophomore. Okay, and is this cross?

This is spring track. Spring track. Okay. In April of 1963. And so then he said, I think you can be the first high school boy to run under four minutes. Well, I knew that was pretty fast, but I didn't realize how significant it was because you got to remember that my sports before all of the running. was I wanted to be in baseball and basketball, some of the big sports.

And so then as he told me, he thought I could run into four minutes for the first time. I went back to the back of the bus and I sat there in a puzzled way going, how is that possible? Because I was thinking in terms of how my head hurt, my legs hurt, my lungs hurt, and I thought that's as fast as I could run. But this was a man who God gifted with great visions. And so when you look at what happened in my career, he was one of those men that kept moving the marker for the right.

out giving me greater challenges. For that, I'm eternally grateful for Coast Simmons. Well, it's a beautiful story because it just shows how little we know of ourselves. I mean, here you are 16 and you're thinking that I've hit my limit. He sees something and he puts it out there for you. So what happens at this point? I know that a year later, this came true, but how did that year go for you? What was your training? Because, you know, those of us who never who've not been gifted in the way that you were. It's hard for us to imagine what it is like to be able to run a 421, much less a sub-4. So what happens to you at this point?

This is April, the track season in 60, 1963. What happens from there on? Well, so by June of 1963, I do run 407. And so then I'm on my own in terms of training. I run cross-country the next fall. But here's a pivotal story here, Eric, and I tell our campers at the Jim Ryan running camp about this. You have to take ownership at some point. So during the winter of 1963, if you will, it's spring, the winter of 1964, going into 1964,

I had grown weary of running on my own, running on the ice and falling in the snow and the cold and everything. And I went in to see Coach Timmons. You know, in those days, the coach really couldn't work with you in the offseason. And I said, Coach, this is really hard. I said, you know, I'm running on my own. I'm running in the dark. I've fallen on the ice. I'm running in the snow.

And he just listened. And finally, he said, Jim, have your goals changed? My goal was to be the first high school boy turn and a performance. And I said, well, coach, they really haven't. He said, well, then you need to get back out there and keep going. See, I went in with the idea that I wanted a pat on the back. And what happened is he sent me home with a kick in the rump saying, if this is important for you, then you're the only one that can make this happen.

And at that point, I began relying more and more upon God because I knew if this is going to happen for a kid who didn't understand running, and I'm doing things never done before, that it would have to be happening as God would open those doors. And so the running developed again quickly. And in June of 1964, I became the first high school boy to run under four minutes. And then in September of 1964, I became the youngest runner, middle-distance runner, whatever do you want to call it,

to ever make the U.S. track and field Olympic team and went to Tokyo. So it was quite a, quite a transformation. So you ran in the Tokyo Olympics. I'm trying to think, who else was in the Tokyo Olympics in 64, whose names we might remember? Was Al Order throwing the discus or shot put in 64? I don't even remember anymore. Well, he was one, he was throwing the discus. One of the ones that gains a lot of attention is Billy Mills, winning the 10,000 meters.

So, but Eric, for me, okay, this will be another, you're going to go, oh, my, is this really true? When I went to my first Olympics, I was such a rookie, I discovered they had him every four years. And I thought, well, maybe I can come back in four years and try again. So it was a real transformational moment. Hey, you were, can I just remind you, big shot, you were 17 years old. You were a kid. So stop being so hard on yourself. So you made the Olympic team.

But before we get to that, Jim, When you broke the four-minute mile in 1964 as a 17-year-old as a high schooler, what was that like for you? I mean, what was the experience of the race? And then what was the aftermath in terms of the adulation and the press coverage? It was a big moment. Well, so it was June of 1964 in a race in Compton, California, called the Compton Relays. We had set the goal that day, Coach Simmons and I had to run under four minutes at 359.

when it happened, it was a goal reached, but that night I couldn't sleep. And the reason for that was that all of a sudden I started thinking it was really Coach Timmons' goal of running under four minutes, which I had adopted. Now, what happens if I take ownership? And ownership I describe, and again our camps, Jim Ryan running camps, is when you know that you can do something a little bit more in practice. Like maybe instead of giving 90%, you can give 100%, maybe a little harder in your wind sprints, maybe a little more weight lift, And so that night I adopted ownership of trying to go just a little bit further. To me, that was transformational. The next morning the phone call started.

People wanted to ask questions. I was totally unprepared. And one of the reasons I was unprepared because as a young boy growing up in Wichita, I had the measles and lost about 50% of my hearing. And it wouldn't be until the age of 50 that I would start wearing lyric, and that's L-Y-R-I-C hearing aids, and would allow me to hear. I was a disaster in terms of answering questions. Wait a minute.

So up until age 50, which is a little bit over 20 years ago, you were struggling with significant hearing loss, including back when you were a kid. Yes. And so through those years, Anne would be my hearing aids. I'd often turn to her and say, honey, what did they say? Or I'd get part of it.

And so what would happen in an interview like this, for example, I might hear a couple of words and I try and respond to that, maybe never really answering the question. So for me, Lyric has opened a door that also meets me to enjoy the quality of life that I've never had. This is the company that makes your hearing aids. Yes. Why did you wait until you were 50 to do this? That's kind of amazing that you lived all this time.

Because at that point, the systems like Lyric were not available. And it's a technology that they go inside of my ear. I can take a shower. I can run in them. And so what it allows me to do is to hear things I've never heard before. And because the technology had not advanced all of the medical community, including the audiologist, we're saying there's nothing that can really help you. You're just going to have to struggle along with what you have.

So it's been, again, one of those moments in time where right now we have our daughter has a foster baby. I can hear Catherine. I can hear the foster baby. I can hear things that I've never heard before. I am now going back and hearing words that. I've never heard because they were misunderstood through the years. And so for me, it was a really great moment. Wow.

Okay, so you, this is amazing. Well, I want to ask you about that race when you ran a sub four mile as a high schooler. Did you think you would do it that day at the Compton Relays? Well, that's always the hope you have, and that's the prayer. I began every race with a prayer. I knew that this was phenomenal. I'm running against guys that are eight and ten years older than me, and here's this high school a kid.

And so I began the race as I typically did with a prayer, dear God, I'm here, I don't know quite under why and how I'm here other than I am, and please help me run the best possible race of my life. And he'd answered those prayers, even though at that point in time I was not a Christian, I was a church person. There's a difference. One is we lives in the other's relationship. But you were praying.

I was praying, and boy, was I praying, because as you might imagine, as these phenomenal things happened, how do you deal with that? And that was one of the things that was a challenge, because, again, when an interview would come up, I wouldn't hear the question completely. I answer the question, and sometimes I look at the expression on the interviewer's face, and I realize I answered the wrong question. So that was always a challenge. Well, okay, so what was the fastest mile that you ever did run in your career?

I ran 351-1 in Bakersfield, California in 1967. It was our national championship, and I'm actually, it was the American record, actually the world record. I'm the last American to ever hold the world record, which is a shame because it's been over 50 years. You're the last American to hold the world record in the mile, and that was the 351-1 that you ran. Now, you held that for what, 14 years? No, only about nine years as the world record holder. as American, a number of years longer, but, you know, nine years as a world record holder. It's still a long time to hold a world record when you've got the whole world trying to beat that record.

It's just, it's amazing. Now, you were in the Olympics. How many times? Two times? Three times. Three, and again, 1964 was my first one in Tokyo, 1968, Mexico City, and in the 1972 in the Munich Olympics. You ran in the Munich Olympics, so I probably watched that on TV. and don't remember.

Oh my gosh. Folks, I'm talking to Jim Ryan. What else do you need to know? We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to Jim Ryan. Did you hear that? Jim Ryan, the man who ran a sub four mile as a high schooler, went on to be a member of Congress.

Jim, I want to ask you, I want to get to the hearing thing in a moment, too, because this is news to me that you went all these years without hearing. But when you decided or when you knew that you're going to run, in the Olympics in 64. You ran in 64, you ran in 68, and then again in 72. Were they running the mile in the Olympics, or had they moved to the 1500? It's always been the 1500, Eric, and I think it's unfortunate that it is because the average person on the street, you know, they say, where'd the mile go? And you explain to them the metric distances, the Olympic distance of 1,500

meters, so you lose people with them. You know what? You lose me because I'm an English, I'm an English standard kind of guy. I like the mile. I like the quarter. I like the half. I've always been kind of oddly opposed to the metric system for many reasons. It's sort of, it reminds me of the European Union. There's just something, or you know what? It reminds me. It reminds me the French revolution when they decided like, you know, we're going to dispense with everything. We're going to invent 10-day weeks. We're going to invent 30-day months. And, you know, it's a kind of a lunacy and It's sort of a humanistic project, but we don't need to get into that. So you never ran the mile.

You had to run the 1500. I know that you got the silver medal, but tell us about your history in the Olympics. You had a tough history in the Olympics. Everybody would assume that, you know, you'd get the gold many times over. What happened? In Mexico City, I was honored to win a silver medal, which means second place. When I came back to the United States since I was the favorite, there were a lot of people that were very unhappy of my performance. And I just remind your listeners that a gold medal and the silver medal are the same size.

One has a little different color and you get a lot more emphasis. And if you get second place when you're supposed to win, then you're considered somewhat of a failure. But quite honestly, it's one of the greatest races of my life because we were running at altitude, which gave the altitude living athletes that won such a huge advantage. Mexico City is that I totally forgot about this. Let's go back to 64, though. You're 17, you make the Olympic team. What happened in the 64 Olympics? I got to the second round of competition.

There are three rounds, preliminary semifinal and finals. I made it into the semifinals, but did not get beyond that, because you're dealing with a different type of competition altogether. Our Olympic trials then were one day. Now they do the three-day, as you would have in the Olympics. I might not have made it through in 1964. there had been three rounds, but it was a one-round competition by the grace of God. I leaned at the finish line and made it to the Olympic team.

Okay. So in 68, it's Mexico City. And who are some of the names from that Olympics? I always try to remember. Was that the year Bob Beeman set the record in the long jump? Yes, that's correct. And some of the names in that Olympics, say in my race, it was a guy from Kenya, Cape Cano, another high school boy that ran under four minutes, Marty LaCoree.

In fact, it's the last time the first time. United States had three Olympic or U.S. team members in the Olympic finals. Marty LaCorey's a famous name, famous name. Oh, sure. Sure. But, yeah, Bob Beeman, I mean, if we're talking track and field, a lot of people don't know

about this, but I remember as a kid because I was into track and field, the idea that Bob Beeman, out of the blue, it's one of the most bizarre things in sports history, jumps about two feet longer than any one. I mean, I still, to this. day can't really understand what happened. Tell my audience, if you remember. Well, first of all, the very thing that hurt us as distance runners, middle distance runs,

in particular, the thin air, which is altitude, enabled Bob Eamon to jump further and some of the sprints to run faster because you have less resistance due to the thin air. The thin air hurts the distance runners that helps the sprints. But it's that significant. I mean, it's hard to believe that the air could be so much thinner that you could fly 24 inches far. Anyway, I'm assuming he would have jumped 28 at sea level. But maybe so. Hard to know, but those kinds of things impacted the Olympics in Mexico City. So, yeah, it was a different Olympics, the Altitude Olympics, and then we move on to Munich, 1972.

And that was an interesting Olympics because if your listeners reflect back on 1972, they will remember there was a terrorist attack by a group called the Black Septimbrus. They broke into the Olympic Village. Eventually there was this terrible shoot out at the airport. Everyone died. And the next day was supposed to be our first round of competition in the 1,500 meters. But they took a day off to honor the athletes that had died at the airport. So it was a terrible Olympics in that since.

Yeah, that's one of the most horrible things that's ever happened in the world. I mean, I still, to this day, can hardly process how horrifying that was. But that year, you experienced something very strange. You were tripped. Were you not when you were running the $1,500? Tell us about that. In the opening round, in the opening round of competition, I shouldn't have been in that round. That's another story.

It'll take a while. We won't go there. I was tripped by an athlete. I fell. I got back up. I did not finish fast enough to go to the next round of competition. And I had just become a Christian in May of 1972. So for me, this was a moment where I was going to have to try.

God and figure out what to do next. And it was difficult because there were films showing that I was fouled. The officials simply took the position of after I met with them and they looked at everything, well, it's unclear whether you were tripped or whatever, but why don't you come back in four years and try again? And Eric, what I wanted to do is reach out to the guy. He didn't have a black tie with spots on it like yours, but I wanted to reach out and grab him and beat on him a little bit so he could feel some of the pain I was feeling. but by the grace of God I did not. And I'm so thankful because that was part of the growth as a Christian. I needed to learn how to handle those situations, even though it was totally unfair, first round of competition.

In fact, in the next Olympics, if you had an athlete such as myself that fell early on, they would advance you to the next round. Okay, I want to. We're going to go to a break here. But folks, I have the joy of talking to Jim Ryan. We're talking about the Olympics. We'll be right back. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Eric McAxas show. I have as my guest, Jim Ryan.

Jim, you're a sports legend. But you're telling us about what they used to call ABC Sports, the agony of defeat. To be such a celebrated miler and then to have this kind of difficult experience at three Olympics, did you not go back in 76? You didn't run in the 76 Olympics? I did not because you see in those days you had what we call amateurism and I would have to lie as a young Christian about taking money under the table to provide for my family and I couldn't justify that. So my retirement basically came after the 72 Olympics. Along came professional track, but it really wasn't something that gave me a future.

But that was the reason I didn't go to 76 is that you've got to make a living. And it's just really difficult to do that and be honest. Um, so I want to go back to the hearing issue. I was not aware that this was a bit. It's just interesting because, you know, we get the highlights with people's lives and, you know, your, your big success. You did all this stuff, but you've been through some stuff. You said this was for measles when you were a kid? A very high fever, damaged the inner ear to the extent that I lost about 50% of my hearing.

And they weren't doing the kind of test in the air now. So when I was fitted with Lyric, and you can go to try Lyric and find out more, I remember going out to the car after being fitted, I turned the radio down because it was too loud. And then a little later at our home we lived in the country, I heard a noise which I thought probably were geese flying over in the air. And sure enough, they were. I'd never heard that before. You'd never heard geese before? Listen, they're overrated, but still. So are these cochlear implants? What are they, what is it about? No, no, they're very small hearing devices that go on your ear, inner ear, slide into your ear. They don't fit on your, close to your inner ear.

And they provide this crystal clear hearing that as we interact now, I'm hearing everything. In fact, your producer in the background on occasion some things that he says, I would not have heard that before the age of 50. So it's phenomenal for me. I know my producer, and frankly, I would prefer not to hear what he has to say. That's just between us. We're not going to air that. We'll keep it there. Well, listen, I just want to say, so the Olympics are happening now.

These are, without any question, at least in my mind, the strangest Olympics in the history of the modern Olympics. I'm not sure what is going on. We have athletes who seem to be ashamed to be Americans, nonetheless, competing as Americans for the American team. It's a bizarre thing. We have transgender athletes competing in women's weightlifting. there's a man competing as a it's just so strange and I find that unlike every other four years, I've kind of tuned out. I'm not sure what to make of what is happening in this country or in these Olympics. Well, I think maybe that's the reason you're seeing a smaller audience on what in

watching the Olympics. But in my day, Eric, you know, we marched into the Olympic Stadium. I remember doing it three times and as much of a formation as we possibly could because we knew we were representing the United States of America, and it was a great honor to do that. I'm not sure some of the athletes share that particular view today, but I do know that that's the way it used to be. And if you have the country sending you, I think you need to stand up straight, and I think you need to honor the country because they've given you the privilege of being in one of the great events of all times, the Olympic Games.

Well, we have to be honest. In 72, you were there in Munich. I think it was 72, not 76. there were a number of black American athletes who raised the sort of black power. That was actually 68, Eric. Oh, that was 68? John Carly's Tommy Smith was 68, yes. That was dramatically similar to where we are today.

I mean, I remember America was scandalized. They thought, wow, but it's exactly the same kind of thing, isn't it? I mean, it's strange that that happened in 68, that there was that feeling back then. And I think that, again, is one of the reasons that if you watch the Olympics now, the viewership is down because Americans, I think, want to see America doing well and they want our athletes to represent America and to do so in an honorable way. And so, again, reflecting back on it, it didn't used to be that way, but it is now, unfortunately. Well, look, you served in the U.S. Congress until 2007. What was that like for you? to go from a career, I mean, well, you were a photojournalist, you ran a number of businesses. What made you decide to run for Congress in 1996?

I was discouraged, like many people, the way the government was spending its money. And so Ann and I prayed about it. And then in 1996, we entered the second congressional district seat as attempting to run for Congress by the grace of God. We won in our first attempt. And the reason for going again was to try and get the government to be more honorable in the way it was spending his money. We were pro-life, we were pro-family, strong military, lower taxes. And so one of the committees I served on was the budget committee.

I got to see the inner workings. There's plenty of money in this country. It's just a matter of how you spend it. And that was the reason for getting involved. And I knew that I had every two years, if you will, to do whatever I could. and by the grace of God, the people of Kansas and the second district gave me five terms to serve, and I'm grateful for that honor. Well, it is extraordinary that you did that.

I got to ask you a really silly question. Do you still exercise? Do you still run, or did you leave that behind? Well, Eric, if we were to go to the track where you ran your six-minute mile at Oxford track, I'd be way behind you because I'd do more of a shuffle now at 74. I still like to exercise. I'd like to run, but it's much slow. and it's kind of awkward, but I'm exercising, and I'm grateful for that.

But you do exercise? I mean, do you run regularly? Oh, yes. You do? Well, that's what I'm saying. Look, I'm kind of tongue and cheek. I run, but it's so slow that it's more of a shuffle. I mean, I walk fast. I try and run, but it's not fast. Now, what do you make of that? Because you've got insane genes. Are you just, you're just, it strikes me that if you wanted to, you could probably do better than shuffling. I'm just guessing. Well, actually, it's called getting older and having about 130,000 miles on your legs that they work, but they don't work like they used to.

And plus, I don't have that kind of devotion right now. It takes a lot to be able to run fast, and I think sometimes we lose the reality of what it takes to run those fast times. But I'm not that motivated to run fast. I'm motivated to exercise, and I'm grateful that I'm able to do that. I am grateful that I'm able to exercise as well. It's just a huge blessing for anybody who can't exercise. I recommend it. We're going to keep you for final segment, Jim.

Please don't go away. Folks, I know you won't go away. Stick around. Make like Mr. Milk toast, you'll get shut out. Make like a Mr. Meek, and you'll get cut out. Make like a little lamb and wham. Folks, I'm still talking to Jim Ryan. Yes, Jim Ryan.

It's fun to talk to you. I've met you in a number of different places, and it's just a joy to talk to you about the years that you were running for this country in the Olympics. Did you ever meet any athletes at that time of whom you were in awe? What was that experience like being, you know, in those circles? Well, I'm going to answer that question, but I don't want to do something for your listeners. I want to brag on your authorship. I have enjoyed Bonhoffer.

I've enjoyed seven men, seven women. And I'm sure your readers know those titles, but you've done a great job, helping all of us with readership and understanding of history. So I thank you for that. But in answer to you a question, Dr. Roger Bannister was the first man to run under four minutes back in 1954. And I had the privilege, Ann, and I had the privilege of having dinner with him in Mexico City, just before the Olympic Games, before I ran in the Olympic Games. And as we sat in dinner, we were talking, and Dr. Bannister said, one of the things that

he'd just done in his house was he took the television out of his house. And Ann and I sat there kind of stunned, well, how do you survive without a television? In 68, he's making this confession. Back when TV was a little bit better than it is today, okay. A lot better. And so we're both asking the follow-up question, well, what do you do with no television? And he said, well, we read more books. We have more family discussions.

We're more of a family. And so that had an impact on our lives. And again, this is the first man to run under four minutes. And, you know, as a doctor, he was just expressing views in his family. So there were times in our life what we'd do, we'd take the television in, and I would take the television out of our house. And we discovered you had more family time, you had more conversation, you read more books. So you asked, that's one of the people that I met that had a great impact on my life.

And I'm so grateful for that. Well, that is amazing. I have the privilege of meeting Roger Bannister's son, and when I discovered who it was, I just thought, you know, this is royalty to anybody who cares about these things. It's just a joy. But were you friendly with any of the marathoners like Frank Schorter or Bill Rogers or any of those folks? Did you know them? Well, I knew them and I've met them and we've talked, but not a lot of conversation or depth because for the most part, you tend to get involved in those lives that your event is. So, for example, the guy that I happened to beat in 1964 at the finish line, a guy named Jim Grella, you know, I nipped him at the finish line. He should have gone to the Olympics instead of me, but I went. Now, he's lost his trip to the Tokyo Olympics, he and his wife,

And so through the years, Jim gave me a real good picture of sportsmanship, and that is run your best race, but off the track, you can be friends. And we've been best friends ever since then. Well, and I love the idea just to get back to what you were saying about being tripped in the 1972 Olympics, and how you said you had just really seriously come to faith before that. Yes. And it gave you the grace, really, to deal with it in an honorable way. because most people would just be raging with fury at that kind of an injustice. 12 years, I had learned the process of forgiveness, and that is you're going to have things that don't go your way in life, but it's up to you to decide what you do if it. It's a decision, and I wanted my life not to end on the track.

I just love talking to you, Jim Ryan, give my love to your wife, Anne, and we'll have your son Ned on again. And just a joy. God bless you, my friend, to be continued. You have heard me talking about Nutrametics, the professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993, and which donates a minimum of 50% of their profits to global charities and missions. Now, look, I want to support a company like that. And I want to take care of my health at the same time.

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