The Eric Metaxas Show - John & Korey Cooper / Skillet (Encore)

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

John and Korey Cooper, better known as Skillet, share "a positive rebellion" with their brand-new album, "Dominion," and point out how it's a celebration of freedom and a liberation from fear. (Encore Presentation)

to the Eric McTaxe show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Metaxe show. Some guests need no introduction. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of a guest today. Actually, that's not true. I have one of those guests who, if you know who they are, you go, wow, how did you get skillet? And other people would be like, I'm sorry, who?

But folks, at the end of this interview, you're going to understand why in some large circles these folks need no introduction. They are, how do I put this album? These are rebels. These are rock and roll rebels, but they're also Christians, which makes no sense, because as Christians we know, we're supposed to be meek and mild and all that kind of stuff. But these people, they didn't get that memo. So John and Corey, welcome. How's it going? It's good to see you again, Eric. I just to say John and Corey, Cooper. It's great to see you, you too, and congratulations on the new album. As I was reading about it, I thought, this is very interesting because it says, I'm going to

read this, okay? First of all, the album is called Dominion. It says it's about the celebration of freedom, a liberation from fear to be who we want to be, say what we want to say, believe what we want to believe. A lot of stuff that I think a lot of people would agree with, but unfortunately, it seems to me, these basic ideas have become contentious in America. Did this out? Do this album come out of that, or were you just going to do this already? Oh, absolutely 100% this album came out of that. But you're right. 15 years ago, those would not be rebellious statements. They might even be obvious statements, but we're not in normal times. We're in a time where civil liberties are being questioned. In fact, civil liberties

are even being questioned on, are they even good in the first place? So that's why I call this record, a positive rebellion. As you said, yes, Christians are supposed to be meek and mild, but we are supposed to be strong as well, and we are supposed to be loud. We're not supposed to be meek and mild. I was just being sarcastic. I know that didn't translate over the airwaves. But no, it's funny, though, because there are people, we're seeing it now, and this is part of what I want to talk to you about. We're seeing now this division among people, you know, who say they're Christians, some of whom they don't seem to have gotten the memo. that we are anti-establishment, that we're going against the grain.

You guys definitely got that memo. Did you get the – now, I got to ask you also about the title before we kind of get deeper. The title is Dominion. Where does that come from? Dominion – basically what I see happening now is the power of the state trying to be a rival God against the one true God. So then you're not Marxist, just to be clear. guys are not Marxists. We are definitely not Marxist.

Fascinating, okay. Yes, we are definitely followers of the Puritan model of sphere sovereignty. That's probably the best way to say it. And the idea of dominion is this, this world does not belong to a government. It doesn't belong to the devil. This world belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ. And within that, there is a sphere of sovereignty that I have over my life, over my families like with my kids that the state should not reach its hands into and if they reach its hands

into it they need to be rebuked by the prophetic voice of the church i think the church hasn't quite understood that but i do think a lot of people are waking up to it it's a really unique time so dominion is the celebration of freedom a freedom in christ but also a freedom in the spheres of authority underneath of course the ultimate authority of the lord jesus christ Well, I find it fascinating in a way where we are in the culture and in history because what you're talking about, I mean, the idea of rock and roll as rebellion, that was a basic thing, you know, in the 50s, into the 60s. And in a way, the church, and when we say the church, I kind of mean the religious establishment

church, stood against that. They said this is the bad kind of rebellion. But ironically now, it seems to me that the people who are being the most rebellious are people who are pro-America, pro-Jesus. I mean, there's just tremendous irony in what we're seeing. We talk about that all the time, don't we? It's because, yeah, rock and roll rebellion. But if you think about it like this, for people just to serve their flesh is not actually. actually, I mean, it is rebellion because you're rebelling against God, but you're just doing what comes natural.

A true Jesus revolution, if you want to call it, is us saying, no, we're rebelling against those forces in the world of what comes natural, which is sin and the power of the flesh, the power of the enemy. Rebelling against that sort of anti-establishment, it's a really weird time in what I've noticed. And I know that you've noticed this too, Eric, because I watch a lot of the stuff that you do. One of the things that I've really noticed is this, the world won't like you if you love Jesus, but the world will hate you if you don't bow down to the power of the state. It's crazy. It's almost like the world without them even knowing it. They have basically swallowed the idea. Really, it's just a stateist philosophy. They swallow the idea that the state is God and that the state is the daddy, the state is the father, the state owns everything, the state owns you. and this record is a celebration of freedom. It's a very positive record,

but it's a celebration of these freedoms that we have in Christ. It was for freedom that Christ is set us free, no longer to carry that yoke of slavery, right? It's such great news. I think people are going to hear that on the record, I hope, anyway. I love the idea that interviewing the two of you were having this deeper conversation about what is freedom, what is liberty, because clearly these terms get thrown around, right?

I mean, you know, the Beastie Boy said you've got to fight for your right to party, woo, and you know, parentheses, they're idiots. Like, whatever, what does that mean? They're like, you know, rich suburban kids who are pretending that they got to, you know, fight against the man and whatever. And they're just, they're selling records. It's meaningless blather. But that spirit of individualistic rebellion, there is a place where that is right and true. And you see it in the heroes of the faith. And so you kind of have to, you have to translate.

it for every generation. You have to explain what is good rebellion. You know, Satan, the rebel, yeah, that's bad rebellion. But rebelling against oppressive systems, when you know I am free in Christ, that's good rebellion. And it's just fascinating to me that right now there's a sifting going on in the church. You guys must get this. There are a lot of people that they just, they don't understand what you're talking about. They think the Christian thing is to put on 10 masks and to, you know, hide and do whatever people tell them. Like somehow that's honoring to God. And I understand in some contexts, I would get that.

But in this context, if you're reading the season, if you're looking, you say, no, I have to be brave. You guys are doing that in your message, which is beautiful. I want to ask you more about all that, but I want to, just for folks who don't know you, I'm teasing, because there are people that know you well. But a lot of people wouldn't know you if they don't listen to Christian music. Maybe they're not Christians. Maybe they don't listen to your kind of music.

So when did you guys get started and you are married legally? We are legally married. I'm going to see some paperwork, okay? I'm trusting, but come on. You know, trust but verify. We are married. We started in 1996. So Skillet celebrated our 25th year.

Give me five of that. 25 years of Skillet last year. and let's see. In March 1st, me and Corey will have been married for 25 years. We have two kids, 19 and 16. Both of our kids, thank the Lord, are living for Jesus.

They are born again. They are filled with the spirit. They are world changers, and we're so thankful to God for what is done for us, and we still get to play music. Music is a great way to open people's hearts to a message.

Music is a great way to, whatever that message may be, people listen to music all day long. So we've tried to create music that glorifies God, but also people that aren't Christians can hear it. They can dig it, hopefully take it to the gym, lift some weights, lose a little bit of COVID weight. And then at the same time, they can hear this positive message,

and the more they listen, they will begin to hear, I believe, the Word of God, because we sing so much about the Word of God. And as we all know, the Word of God is living and active. It's going to seep in, and the Holy Spirit is going to begin to do, what he does. I know you're quoting the Khalil Gibran for those who are scoring at home. I want to be very clear where that comes from. And I'm being sarcastic. And we'll be right back with Skillet. Don't go away.

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What the heck is Skillet? It's a band. It's John and Corey Cooper. And Corey, haven't you said enough, can you give John a chance to speak a little bit? This is what it works. There's nothing like the brassy woman. She will not let her husband speak. It's not right.

Okay, I rebuke you. But anyway, continue. You guys have been married 25 years. My wife and I have as well. So congratulations. That's beautiful. But you've continued to make music together, which is also beautiful.

And we're going through a weird time. And so before we talk more about that, I just want to ask, because you were here in the studio some months ago or whenever that was, and you told you a story. But how did you guys meet? Where did you grow up?

How did you get into music? I know a lot of people are not familiar with your background. Yeah, well, we, I'm from a small church up in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and we had kind of like sister churches. There was one in Memphis, Tennessee. and I knew his pastor and their family because I'd live with them over in England for a year at a Bible college, small Bible college.

So I'd go down to visit them. And then, of course, they were like, hey, there's a guy here who does music and he's evangelistic, you know. Maybe you guys should talk. I don't see working out. Maybe we could make beautiful music together. So, but yeah, truthfully,

I don't think they thought we would connect on this level because he's such an outgoing, crazy type of person. I'm very sort of introspective, sort of deep, quiet type of person. So I don't think they really saw it. They saw us being friends, not being married. I was listening to Metallica. She was reading Spurgeon.

That's why they didn't think. That is so beautiful. Seriously, that is crazy, beautiful. Metallica and Spurgeon never mentioned outside of the two of you, never mentioned in the same sentence in the history of the world. But that's so funny. Were you written out, come on, Corey,

were you really reading Spurgeon seriously? Yeah. You know, I have kind of grown up loving the book of ecclesiastes and Proverbs and thinking, you know, I got saved around five years old. And I just knew that I wanted to serve God with my life, you know, wanted my life to come for something eternal. And so I felt sort of drawn to music, but I didn't know what that would look like. And I thought, well, if I'm going to do music, I want to honor God with my lyrics. And so I need to study theology. So I started off fairly young.

So I need to study theology. For people who don't know, listen, there's a lot of people listening. who've never heard of Spurgeon. If you don't mind, tell them, otherwise I will. Tell them who it is. Charles Spurgeon. I mean, he was a great theologian preacher, you know. The Prince of Preachers, I think they call it.

He was famously called the Prince of Preachers. And he was, I mean, he's hard to sum up. He was a big deal. In 19th century, England, he was it, right? He had like a gigantic, they built this huge tabernacle. I mean, it's kind of an amazing thing. What a big deal he was. and he wrote all these sermons and stuff.

But there's something about him that would draw you as a young woman to want to read what he has to say. I mean, that's just fascinating to me. I mean, Corey read all of that. Augustine is my favorite. I mean, you're the historian. So, you know, I read your Martin Luther book. Love that too. But my memory is not, you know, for details so much as for the feel and the depth of the theology that they have.

I hope to take all that stuff in. but yeah, Augustine might be up there as my faith. So I got an Augustine tattoo, which... I was going to say, wow, you didn't get to the part in Spurgeon's sermons where he says tattoos are of the devil. You didn't read that far, obviously. And the purple hair in the appendix, he goes into that. That's just wrong.

But, no, it is so... It's just so funny to be talking to you. You know, if I was interviewing Debbie Harry, I doubt she's heard of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, so I'm glad I'm talking to you guys. But so you have this theological background, you bring it into your lyrics. What was it that led you into this genre of music? And do you even say, I mean, is it metal?

Is it, you know, modified metal? What do you call it? I usually just call it hard rock. We certainly have some metal fans and we have some metal moments. I think for me, right? Metal moments, yes, personally. And, you know, for me, rock music was just always, rock music was never about sex, drugs, rock and roll.

I never even really made that connection as a young person. I just liked how loud it was. It had passion. It had excitement. And I started playing sports and school, you know, basketball. And you're with a football team and you're working out. And before you know it, everybody's got hard rock and metal on. It became kind of part of the, part of the workout room mentality.

And so playing rock and roll music just felt natural to me. And it was a great way to express what I consider to be a very powerful gospel. Not a gospel for webs. It is a life-changing gospel. It is not for the faint of heart. It's for the people that are ready to give up their lives, carry their cross, follow Jesus. That is a tough gospel. And it just, to me, always made sense to go with rock music.

If there's any style of music that's like camel hair and locust and wild honey, I think it's rock music. Listen, that's really, that is very, very true, very good point because it's funny, right? Like Christianity, this is part of the problem, and this is what gets into this, the irony, in a sense, of being into rock music and into Jesus, you realize that people, many people have a false view of who Jesus. or what it means to be a Christian, including many Christians. And they think it means being nice, going along with the establishment or something. And so it's interesting that we've come to a point in the culture in America where those divisions are clearer than ever. If you want to be bold in your faith, you're going to stick out.

You're going to be anti-establishment. And it's just, it really is sort of interesting to me that we've come to this place. Now, were you always both of you writing this kind of music, or Corey, were you doing different kind of music? And how did you figure that out when you first met and then married? Yeah, I was doing probably mellow or style of music, more worship type stuff for me and or indie alt. See, that's more where I lean. What did you call it? Say it again?

Indy slash alt. Indie. Oh, indie slash alt. Got it, got it, got it. Yeah. I like the weirder stuff, maybe more than he does. But he was already doing his thing. And basically they needed a keyboard player with their second record.

And I was on the road already. And I was free. So that's kind of how I got the game. We didn't have any money. I like the way this worked out. This is... Well, listen, the first 25 years are always the hardest, believe me. So I think, I believe this is going to last.

I believe you. I have to ask you, too, for people that are like new fans introduced to you, where does the name Skillet come from? Why did you name the band Skillet? It's completely dumb. When we first started, Skillet was all from different, the members were all from different bands. And even how Corey joined the band was that we were all from different bands and different genres.

And it was actually my pastor at the time, my pastor said, John, I've been praying. And I think that you would be good with this other guitar player from this other band that I know. do you want to start a side project and we'll find a different drummer from a different band and he said write some songs and then somebody said what do we call it? And he said, well it's kind of like cooking, taking all those

different ingredients and thrown it into a skillet. So call it a skillet. And so we never imagined that it would last that long. So we're the most blessed band in music history, I'll tell you that. But it is apt that a skillet is made of metal. That is exactly right. That's not past you by. I'm not the first person to mention

this obviously. Skillet. metal. You are not. And if you get hit with it, it hurts. Some things like that last reference he did as we ended the segment. Yeah, yeah. But you're not the first person to mention that. Yeah.

No, but that's, but it's, it's just interesting to me. Well, so where we are in the culture right now, again, a Christianity, real Christianity, it strikes me that it has become more rebellious, right? Like, you know, when I wrote my Bonhofer book in 2010, it came out, And everybody's like, oh, isn't that sweet? It's so great. He's such a hero. But now when we're in times when you are having to think about, do I stand against the government?

Do I stand against the timid church? Do I look like a maniac? Because the timid church is like, no, just go along with everything. That's the Christian thing. And, you know, we have to have this theological debate about what is the Christian thing? What does a Christian do? And there is sharp division. And there was sharp division in Bonhofer's day.

is he crazy? Should we just make nice, nice, and kind of preach the gospel quietly while the Nazis butcher Jews, and we're not going to look over there because we want to preach the gospel? It's not quite that, but it's a similar dynamic, and I know you guys have to be dealing with that since you are often in Christian circles. You know, I think you just said that so great. There's two major issues, I think, going on. I think you nailed. Number one, as we all know, we have the war against absolutely. truth, even happening in Christianity. Now, that's its own thing because those people are kind of really outside of the faith, in my opinion now, the apostates, the deconstruction movement.

That's its own thing. Within the Orthodox Christian Church, as you just said, this is the issue. And I just want to lovingly, absolutely lovingly encourage Christians out there on exactly what Eric just said. If this was supposed to be about making nice, nice, as you just said, we would not know who Bonhoeffer was. We would not know who Corey Ten Boom was, all right? We would not know so many of these heroes of the faith that were fighting against the slave trade, black Christians and white Christians fighting against this incredible injustice and what I usually find. And swimming against the stream in the church of the day.

I want to come right back to that because this is such a big issue. Folks, I'm talking to Skillet. The new album is called Dominion. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable. Gold is one of the best ways to protect your retirement.

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I'm not afraid for you. I'm not a lot of my refuge. Folks, I'm talking to, I don't know how to put it, skillet. That really means I'm talking to the Cooper's, Mr. Mrs. Cooper's, Mr. Mrs. Cooper, welcome back. Great to be back. You guys, you've been doing this for a long time, but it really is, as we were just saying we're living in a time that's new for most of us, where if you're an advocate of standing

up to the powers that be, there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who say, no, that's wrong, we're supposed to kind of go along with this, we're not supposed to rebel, or they say, oh, you're not supposed to be, you're being political. So why do you feel that you need to talk about these kinds of things right now? Absolutely. I know a lot of awesome, awesome believing Christians that are just like you said, that they do love God. They are godly people. They just don't understand this point. And one of the things I would just say is this. Look, a lot of those people that I'm talking about, they will fight the fight against abortion, which I appreciate and which I applaud. But abortion seems to be the only issue that they see that is worth getting quote unquote political about or loud about or angry about. I want to pull them over into join the fight. The abortion issue, yes, is I think the biggest atrocity happening in our country, but there are a lot of atrocities, and we're only at the beginning of it

if we don't stand up for godly principles and authority, godly principles in the civil realm. Abortion is only the beginning of what could happen. So that's why we're so passionate about that. I believe that the gospel will change people's lives, and we are so lucky and blessed, I should say, to live in a country where we are still free to preach that gospel. And I do think that that's what's on the menu is taking that freedom away. Now, if that freedom goes away, the gospel will still be preached.

God is still going to do what he does. God is still in control. But I don't know if that's something that we want to, you know, rush to make happen so that we're all persecuted for our faith. If it happens, God's in control. but we live in a great country and to throw it all away because we wanted to just be nice. I do not think that that is the power of the – I think the power of Christ in the church has a different destiny for us. That's what I'm trying to say. I mean, I definitely agree with that.

And I really think there are a lot of Christians today who would consider David a hothead when he went to fight against Goliath. and I think they would counsel him. Do you not believe in prayer? You need to pray for Goliath. And I think that you have to have discernment, because if God tells you to pray for your enemy in that situation, but clearly we don't say David was wrong. He was a hot head.

He was young. He was red-headed. You know how they are. We don't say that. We don't say that we do. Right? We say he did the right thing. He killed Goliath.

And there was some, you know, you could see that testosterone in that. young man's thing going on that that's part of it. God can use that or the devil can use that. We know that, right? And so it's a matter of discernment, but it is interesting to me how the idea, I don't know how the idea crept into the church in recent years that fighting is bad. And I think, well, some kind of fight, fleshly fighting is bad. But fighting for what's right and true, you know, because you can imagine a lot of people would say, hey, David, who's to say, maybe the Lord wants to use Goliath destroying you to his glory. Like, let it ride.

Don't, you know, don't kick against the goads, bro. Sit it out. And I feel like it really comes to an issue of discernment. It's impossible to prove whether you're right. You just have a sense and you do your best, and the Lord will, as time passes, reveal that. But I do think a lot of Christians are waking up, which is why I'm excited about your message.

And I'm excited about what you say that it's not just about abortion. In fact, I'll tell you what, though. Some people have become so, in a sense, confused or triggered by what's going on that they have even, somebody that I had on this show, I love LaCray. He stood behind Warnock, who is a very pro-abortion candidate. And so we're seeing this kind of division in the church. And I think we really do have to love each other, even as we, you know, talk about this kind of thing. But it's an interesting time right now that, you know, even that issue for some people, they're like, well, I agree personally.

But I don't want to vote for somebody who I disagree with on these other issues, you know. But it's – Yeah. That's true. Because – oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Eric. No, no, no. Hey, it's my show, but I'm supposed to be asking you the questions.

But, you know, you can see I get all animated. So – but no, please talk about what you think about these things. Well, I agree with you 100%. It only makes sense that people are going to get soft on the abortion issue because of the making nice, nice. things. So for one, it was like, don't, don't argue, let's be pietistic. We don't get involved in that, but we're firm on abortion. Well, eventually, that is also going to go away. I believe, personally, it's the imprint of humanism onto the church, onto this, we can fix all of our own problems, we don't need to consult the Bible. I also think, if I can say something that I've

never said in an interview, I think it's also part of the, of the, I don't want to a fake news narrative, even from 200 years ago, that really, I think, demeaned the Puritans in a way that they did not deserve. And they demean them to such a way that the pietistic movement took over instead of the Puritan movement. The Puritans had a good understanding of authority. The Puritans had a good understanding of Jesus Christ, the Lord of all spheres. And then when the pietism movement came in and said, no, no, it's only about the spiritual realm, which of course that is the most important thing Jesus said don't fear those who can kill the body fear those who can kill the body and the soul that's true but still christ has something to say

about how the kingdom is represented on the earth and I'm passionate about that the reason I have a show is to talk to rock and roll people about pietism versus puritanism that is why the Lord created me will continue when we return folks Eric Mattaxas here somebody just handed me a piece of paper with insane information on it. But I know it's true because the other day, I literally got a phone call from Mike Lindell telling me, Eric, you got to check out. And then he tells me about this towel special, right? And he says, you've got to tell your audience, you got to, okay, so here's the special. 3999, if you use the code Eric, normally $109.99. We're talking about the towels that work. We've talked about this before.

It's a technology where the towels actually do the job of being absorbent and, you know, you know that whole thing. So they're amazing towels, but you can get a set of six towels for $39.99. You have to use the code, Eric. Go to MyPillow.com. Click on the new radio listener specials and what you can call 800, 978-3057, 800-978-3057. Use the code Eric. I'm talking to John and Corey Cooper, also known as Skillett, the rock band that has a new album out called Dominion. You guys are theologically sophisticated, which you wouldn't guess from just looking at you.

And I'm saying that as an insult, by the way. I just want to be very clear. I'm insulting you. No, but it's kind of fascinating because you really are. And I think it's important, you know, if you call yourself a question to have some sense of what that means. you don't have to be reading the sermons of Spurgeon. But it's just interesting that you are just now talking about the difference. I was making fun of it, right?

But between Puritanism and pietism. So when you say pietism, what do you mean roughly? Translate that for people who aren't familiar with these terms. I guess pietism, to my mind, would be we're not going to get involved in the civil affairs. It's not really about what happens here on Earth. It is about a supernatural, the supernatural world, heaven only. You know, I would say the supernatural only, not the physical. I think there are some good things that can come from that.

And I'm not even saying I 100% disagree, but pietism seems to leave out the us getting involved in these natural affairs. Puritanism, to my mind, was obviously about holy living. But Puritanism was about seeing Christ glorified in every single aspect of life. both spiritual and physical and the natural. The kingdom of God influencing and infiltrating our actual culture, you know. So we all know, and this is what's so fascinating, how people just often react to things. We know how either of these things can go wrong. Like we know.

We can describe it, right? We can say, if you're too puritanical in this direction, if you're too, then you're not really genuinely puritanical. You are bad puritanical, and you're sort of trying to impose, it leads to theocracy, which we know is bad. But on the other side, pietism leads to such a disdain for the world and the things of this world that if somebody is being enslaved or murdered by Nazis, you say, you know what, that's not my business. I'm just going to be over here in my little world praying. I don't want to get involved politically to do something about slavery or about civil rights or about this kind of injustice or whatever. So on the one hand, you have people that are overly political. On the other hand, you have people that say politics is of the devil.

I don't want anything to do with it. And I think we agree that there's a balance, but that God does not call us to hide from trying to – we're supposed to be salt and light in the culture. The only question is, do you make an idol of politics? Well, we know that's bad. But it's just interesting to me that you're thinking about this right now and that this album, Dominion, reflects some of that thinking. Yes, I love that. I think that an extreme pietism, as you just mentioned, an extreme pietism means that John the Baptist does not rebuke Herod for sexual immorality.

Extreme pietism means, and I'm getting my apostles wrong, I can't remember if it was James and John, but two of the apostles that were imprisoned because they had preached the gospel and someone got healed. they were imprisoned, and then when the guards were going to let them go, because remember they preached the gospel to one of the guards, the guard got saved, took the apostles to his house, his whole family got saved, and they said, we're going to let you go,

and then I believe it was Paul. I can't remember which one of them said. I think it had to be, Paul. He was the only one that was the Roman citizen, right? He was the hot shot Roman citizen, and he decides to pull rank and say, excuse me, I'm a Roman citizen, I'm not going. That's right.

I'm not ready to go, because I'm going to cause you some trouble. by staying right here. That's right. They demand a public apology. You know, I said, no, you're not just going to let me go. You're going to give me a public apology in front of every right. Extreme pietism says we don't do that.

So I think the times we are in, I think as you said, we have to look at the times we're in. I don't think that I've done this 100% right, by the way. I know I've been wrong a ton. But we have to see the times we are in and say, God, Holy Spirit, in my heart, discern it. What is it that is happening now and what do you want me to say? What is the prophetic voice of the church to the culture now that we could see some come to Christ? And we can see Christ glorified in our generation and not throw away all of this wonderful liberty that we have from a country, by the way, that recognize that there is an authority more preeminent than the state. that is an amazing thing, unlike anything that ever happened really almost in the world,

and we're going to throw it away because we don't want to be mean. And I don't think that's good. And so you're going to hear that message on our record domain. I think a lot of well-meaning Christians do not understand these sort of tyranny and totalitarianism and murder and death that can occur if the power of the state is not rebuked. Listen, they're naive. and the devil can work with naive. He can work with cynical.

He'll take what you give him. But there's naivete. I mean, because my parents grew up in other parts of the world where there was no freedom and there was no food and there was no freedom. You know, they raised me to understand, hey, things can get very bad. Be aware that what you have in America is an insane gift, an insane blessing that you need to cherish and treasure and protect for the next generation and for people around the world who would love some of this.

So it's important to get that message out. And I do think, as we're talking, a lot of Christians haven't understood that. And so it's really encouraging to me to think that you guys get this and are putting it into your music and talking about it. If people want to find you, where do they go? Where can they hear you perform? What's going on? Oh, yeah. Best thing to do, and the easiest to remember, skillet.com.

And we're, of course, on social media. You can find all that at Skillet Music on Facebook and you can go to YouTube. Look up Skillet. It'll come up. The brand new record's called Dominion. I hope that people love it. We are on tour as well as I also have a podcast. If anybody is interested in that, it is called Cooper Stuff Podcast.

I talk about cultural worldview through a biblical lens and things. I only do it once a week. Have you had Eric in Texas on your podcast? He's very hard to get. But he's too hard to get. He would never. appear on a trashy shallow program like yours. Believe me, I know him. He would not stoop to that. But I'm just asking the question. Seriously, though, you guys are performing around the country.

What are some of the cities where people might be able to find you? Right now, we're mainly going to be in the, I mean, frankly, we're in the states that are open, which just happened to be red sea. I shouldn't say they just happen to be. So you're not going to North Korea or New York, correct? Exactly, which are basically kind of becoming the same. No, we are in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, those type areas. We just were playing on a tour called Winter Jam. We just had 5,000 people come out in Columbus, Ohio. People are excited.

People are having just, it's a great feeling to be around people in community. I love this. Folks, we're going to be right back. Final segment. I'm talking to Skillet, don't go with. Folks, we are celebrating 25 years of Skillet and also 25 years of the Coopers. Congratulations. It's just a cool thing that the number of years married and the number of years of the band is equal.

You seem way too young to be a quarter of a century into this kind of stuff. Do your kids keep you young? I can only imagine that's the cliche because it's so true. And how do you deal with kids now you're on the road? How is that working out for you? I think kids keep us young. Kids, yeah, and the job, too. Our demo skews pretty young.

So, you know, if you dress young, it helps you look young, I guess. Playing on stage every night. You know, playing on stage every night keeps your body limber. Because in COVID, we had a year off. And when I came back to stage, I felt it. Well, I was like, this is the first time I've ever felt my age. But, you know, the fans keep you young. The music keeps you young.

And my son just did a final. So that keeps you young, too. like, okay. That's right. He's doing a final today. Final week. Yeah. Wow. So, so you are able to, though, play in, what kind of venues are you able to play in at this point? I mean, when you're speaking, when you're in states that are open, as you say, is it, is it, is it sort of normal in those places? Yeah. Yes. Yes and no. I mean, skillet took a lot of, we got a lot of flack because I made a statement about four months ago when they started announcing the vaccine mandates. I said we. absolutely will not play a vaccine-mandated show. It's an impossibility for us. And you take a lot of flack about it.

The music industry does not like that. Okay, stop. I just want to say, God bless you for that stand. Before you say anything else, I want to say, God bless you for that stand. We need more people to heroically speak up. It is shameful. Vaccine mandates are shameful. A lot of what's going on.

We've been talking about it a little bit, but not being so specific. So that is just terrific that you guys took that stand. And I want to affirm you and encourage you. Thank you for doing that. Oh, thanks. Well, I appreciate that, Eric. Yeah, we need people to do it. And frankly, we need bands bigger than us to do it is what we really need as well.

But because of that, we had to cancel a few shows. But now on this tour, we are playing arenas, and they are in states that will allow shows. And there's one or two that we're still trying to work on to get things approved on the mandates. And if they don't approve them, then we're yanking the shows because we are not going to do that. So, so far it's going good. And you can just see people are so happy and people are having a great time. And I just, I think that this year is going to be a year of great blessing for the church. I really, really do.

I do too. I really, I see that happening. But that's, you know, particularly why I appreciate your leadership on this, because people got to stick their necks out a little bit because so many people are. are just, they're kind of hanging back, they're afraid. And, you know, you're living out your faith. You're saying, we trust God with our schedule, with our finances, and people need to know, like, that's real. You can't out give God.

You can't out trust God, you know. So it's kind of interesting that here we are living in a time. We actually get to demonstrate that. But we've just got 30 seconds left. So what are like, are there any, quote, unquote, hits on this album? you're not like hits kind of people. Like you're doing your music, but there have to be some. I hope so.

All of them. Every single one. Yeah, yeah, every song, right. You know, I would encourage people to go check out on the record. There's a song that I think people will really like called Valley of Death. It's a ballad. It's one of the slower songs we've done. I think people will resonate it because of the times that we are in and the questioning that I think that most people are going to feel.

I will also point people towards the song, Dominion, which is the title track, which is just a celebration of freedom. I think people are going to really love it. So please check it out. Really thrilled to have both of you back. John and Corey, God bless you to be continued. Thank you.

Thank you. I think we hit our goal for Christian Solidarity International. But that's like the minimum, folks. We want everyone who ever listens to this program and their friends to go to metaxis talk.com and give what you can. Here's the phone number. 888-253-3522.

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