The Eric Metaxas Show - Joni Lamb

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Daystar's "Joni Lamb" shares her new book "Through the Storm".

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Welcome to the Eric Metaxas show. Have you heard that some people have a nose for news? Well, Eric has a nose for everything. That's why this is called The Show About Everything. Now, welcome your host, who definitely passes the smell test, Eric Mattaxas. Yousy, yousa, yousa, as the kids say today, Chris Heim's, my friend, it's Tuesday. Yeah, wake up.

It's Tuesday. It's a snow day, but not for us. I want to listen to the radio to see if the Eric Mattaxas show recording had been canceled, and it didn't come home. No, no. No. It's, well, yeah, it's snowing in New York, but it's kind of typical New York snow. It lasts for 45 minutes and then it turns into puddles.

But the whole city is shut down because everybody is a wimp. COVID has turned people into wimps. They're soft. They're unable to deal with the elements or stress. So they hide in their homes, wearing their masks. Don't be one of those people. Yeah, I was trying to think of a New York snow out on bail joke, but my brain couldn't get there. You know what I mean?

Like, what's New York snow? How is it different? It gets out on bail and just because after you. You know, we're sounding like the morning show, the zoo. It's the morning show, Christian Eric. All right. All right. This is the Eric McIxas show.

We've got a number of things to share. But let me first say that my first guest in a few moments is Joni Lamb. She's the head of Daystar TV. I've been on there a few times over the years. They're in Dallas. And she has a new book out. And I like introducing my audience to people I've gotten to know. The book is titled Through the Storm, Her Journey of Faith and Courage.

She's got a story, so that's coming up. In Hour 2, we're talking about faith in the arts. Yeah. All right. It's going to be great. All right. So a couple things before we go to all that. Yesterday, or maybe I have to go back in time.

I have to think about it. You've been very busy. I was in Seattle. Yeah. We did a Socrates in the city, we did a Socrates City event in Seattle. That was last Thursday night. Friday, we recorded two Socrates in the studio events. Yes.

Socrates in the studio, if you're a regular listener to the program, you know that we've launched a streaming platform called Socrates Plus. You're required to sign up for that. It's $5 a month. And there's tons of content that you can't see anywhere else. Socrates in the studio, those are Socrates and the city conversations that we don't do with the big audience. And we did two of them in Seattle on Friday. Then I flew to Medford, Oregon, where I did an event on Saturday night. And Medford, Oregon, it's the southern part of Oregon.

I didn't know that Oregon had a southern part. It turns out they do. And it is, it's conservative. it's, you know, kind of, there was an auctioneer, kind of like a cattle auctioneer, you know, they talk real fast. Yeah. And he auctioned off items wearing a cowboy hat. It really was just another world.

It was delightful. The people there were absolutely delightful. But it was a Lincoln Day dinner. Oh, that sounds fancy. The Republican Party of that area has a Lincoln Day dinner. So they had a big bust of Lincoln, people in cowboy hats. And I was the speaker. And I'll tell you, it's an amazing thing when you go to a part of the world, you think, Southern Oregon, Medford, Oregon.

I'd never been there for, anyway, it was delightful. And then I flew home. Now, I flew home on what's called Super Bowl Sunday. Was it an empty plane? No, the Super Bowl was on most of the screens on the plane that I was on. That's crazy. Because actually, I should say that I flew from Medford, Oregon to Salt Lake City. Then I got on a plane of Salt Lake City.

But everybody's, like, watching the Super Bowl. That was a good game. Except for me. Yeah, you were watching something else. I'm not a fan of professional sports, not a fan of the Super Bowl. It has become more and more and more and more commercial. It reminds me of in the Roman Empire when they had the gladiatorial exhibits. It's the bread and circus thing.

We're going to feed people celebrity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just got to tell you, I kind of don't, I just, don't like it. I was glad to be on a plane while everybody's watching the Super Bowl except on the plane people watching the Super Bowl, but here's the key. What happened? I was very tired. I was

really, I've been exhausted, it's the whole story, but I've just been absolutely exhausted, so feel free to pray for me because I'm not kidding. It's just been an exhausting, exhausting, tough time. So I thought, you know what? It's late. I'm going to do what I never do on planes, really, is

like watch a movie. So I'm flipping around to see what they have, and I thought, oh, Hacksaw Ridge. And I realized I've never seen Haxar Ridge. And it came out a couple years ago. It's a war movie, right? Maybe I should see it. Well, let me simply say, it's a great movie. It is a great movie.

I was watching it thinking, this is so great. I wonder who in the world directed this, because this is amazing. and ding-dong when it was over I realized, oh, Mel Gibson directed it. Yeah. I forgot. He's pretty good at that. For some reason, I kind of thought he produced it or somebody. He directed it because it's so great you think you have to have a great director.

He has become an absolutely great. He's been a great director, but he is a great director. The thing he does so well is he captures. Violence. Well, violence, but also dramatic tension. And this thread of dramatic tension, it's like a taught thread of tension, and you're wound up while you're watching it. Did you hear that?

A taught threat of tension. Write that down. It's like a trip wire. And you're just watching this thing and you can't, you almost can't breathe the whole time. It doesn't let up. And at the very end it lets up. And you're like, wow. I didn't breathe until we landed at JFK.

Yeah, yeah. I was turning. Well, the bathroom was broken. A lot of colors of blue. No, but seriously, it was so great. And I want to say that I got choked up for two reasons. Number one, the film will get you choked up because it shows American men, no women, American men dying for their country. And you watch it and you think these young men

died for their country. Now this is again, takes place in Japan, Battle of Okinawa, you know, World War II, 1945. But these men died for their country. And you watch it and you start thinking what a shallow, selfish society we have become. Young men died. suffered and died. Some of them just suffered a lot and didn't die, but suffered and died for this nation. And we owe them a debt of gratitude that we cannot pay back unless you have been shot at or tortured by the enemy. You know, you have no right in a way to say anything until you first acknowledge that people have paid the price for you and me to be free in this country. So I was watching this and just very moved. It's a great movie.

And then on all the screens around me was the Super Bowl, which is a bunch of grown men playing a game as though it matters. And of course, it doesn't matter at all. And so there's nothing like inherently wicked about playing a game. But there is something that, to me, borders on the wicked when we kind of puff it up as though it's the most important. It's Super Bowl Sunday, like it's Christmas or Easter. And we act like this is so important. And I kind of think, well, what is important about it?

I don't know. It is a game. It has grown men who could be, you know, saving lives, but they're instead, you know, tackling each other. And I know that's not a popular perspective, but I don't care. I think it's just worth throwing out there. And it's about commercials and it's about money, and it's about Taylor Swift and celebrity. And the contrast, it's kind of like you set it up. You couldn't set it up better.

I'm sitting here watching Hacks Havridge, watching people die for their country. And then right over on the screen next to me is, you know. Usher, dancing. Is that stuff? And I thought it really was like a weird to see them side by side while I'm like, you know, just about crying watching men die for their country, young men in the prime of their lives. And then right over here you got young men in the prime of their lives, you know, making billions of dollars. for corporate entities and whatever.

So I just thought I threw out that strange perspective. I want to say, all right, please sign up for Socrates Plus. Go to Socrates in the City or Socrates in the City Plus.com and sign up because we really did a lot of extraordinary conversations. In fact, yesterday I had two more Socrates in the studio sessions, one with Rye's. Roger Kimball of the new Criterion and one with our friend Mike Wilkerson about his book. Really, really great stuff. There's so much more to share. And Letter to the Americanchurch.com, don't forget.

Well, everybody knows to go to letter to the American church.com. It's doing very well. Praise the Lord. It's important. We'll be right back. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one. Glenn and the team have been great supporters of this show.

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Some of you know, Joni, and some of you don't. If you don't, get ready. Joni is the founder and president of Daystar TV. I have been on Joni's show, shows many times when I visit Dallas. She's never been on my show. Joni, welcome. Thank you, Eric. Good to be with you.

I'm going to ask you the hard-hitting questions that you ask me when I come on your show. That's not true. It's always fun to talk to people that I know and think of as friends because I've been with you in your Dallas studios a number of times over the years. But you have a book out and it's why you're here. And it's kind of a serious subject. The book is called Through the Storm, Courageous Faith in Turbulent Times. You've been through some stuff. and you decided you need to write a book about it.

And where do we start? What made you decide to write the book? Well, Eric, there's so many stories out there. You know, the secular media has their story, and then other people have their story, and then there's the truth. And so I figured, you know what, I'm going to tell my story

and hopefully help people along the way because as believers, you know that we're either going into a storm, in the middle of a storm, or coming out of a storm. That is the kind of the Christian walk, even though it doesn't preach well. Well, I want to say something that it just kind of comes out of the conversation naturally. But, you know, there's faith and then there's faith. And I think that a lot of times I see people who call themselves Christians who don't walk in what I would call faith for the miraculous. Like they kind of think, like, well, there's life and then the Lord sort of could help me

and be with me. But they forget that you can experience miracles in this life and that God wants to steer us and wants to lead us miraculously. It doesn't mean he doesn't allow us to suffer. But it's kind of like a bigger faith, in a sense, a faith where you just say, God really is in charge of my life. And even if things go very wrong, he's with me. it and he can bring something out of it and he will bring something out of it. And it seems to me

that's a big part of what you're getting at in the book. Yeah, you know, I tell some of the stories that have never been told. And as you know, my late husband graduated to heaven after almost 50 years of ministry. And we would have celebrated just a few months shy of 40 years of marriage. And so I say that he finished his course and he finished well. And he finished well and he accomplished more in 64 years on this earth than some people do in three lifetimes. And of course, I tell some of the early beginnings of building the Daystar Television Network. He is the founder. I'm the co-founder.

We did it together. And so I tell a few of those stories. And then I tell about a challenge that he and I went through together. That was very public. Actually, in 2010, the world heard about it, but actually happened just in 2007, how we walked through that storm and how God guided me through it. I've never written about that before. And, of course, in 2012, November, the end of 2021, when he graduated to heaven and the secular media was saying, oh, he died from COVID, and, you know, they had all those doctors on. And, you know,

we're allowing information, which, by the way, is all true now that's come out. That's another whole show we'll have to do. But anyway, I wanted to tell what really happened. And that was the greatest storm I've ever gone through, even though 35 plus years in Christian television, I can tell you a whole lot of miraculous things. But along with those miraculous things were serious storms. It's not like the enemies like, oh, that's great. Marcus and Joni Lamb, aren't they doing awesome building the world's largest Christian television network in the world that's now going all around the world? So yeah, there are storms, but I wanted to just tell my story, be authentic with people because there's so many narratives out there. And you know how many false narratives have been out there about Eric Metaxes.

So it was just my moment where I felt like not only to tell the story, but to encourage people that God is going to be faithful no matter what you're going through. And I think the greatest storm, like I said, that I've gone through was the loss of Marcus and his graduating to heaven, even though I know I'll see him again. Well, yeah, that is, that's a huge thing to lose someone you love who's so close to you and to lose them way, way, way before you ever thought. That's anybody listening, they know that is, that's one of the toughest things in the world. You, Joni, one of the reasons that I so connected with you is your bravery with the COVID-nonstone. sense with the lies, with trying to find the truth in the midst of the madness. I remember

I was on your show in the middle of all this stuff, and I think it was right after your show. I got in a car and went to do a big radio program in Dallas, Christian radio thing. And when I was there, among friends, right, among Christian friends, I was getting exactly the opposite information of what I had just gotten from you. And I thought, this is, this is really confusing that even in the Christian world, we're having to really figure out what is true. And, and, of course, we've seen in time

more and more and more, the evidence come out. But before it was coming out, and of course, there's still tons of people that aren't buying, you know, they're still stuck on the old narrative of, you know, wearing the masks and getting the vaccine and all this stuff that they have bought. But in part, and again, this is the staggering thing to me, because many in the Christian community were pushing the vaccines, were pushing all the stuff that the secular media was pushing,

and they were pushing it so aggressively. I think that's what kind of triggers people like you and me. We go, wait a minute, this doesn't feel right. Even if I didn't know the facts, the way this is being pushed on me makes me uncomfortable. Can you talk a little bit about your journey there? Because you were really at the forefront of interviewing people. I guess it was Dr. Penny Packer. I can't remember Ten Penny.

What's the name of the... What's the name of the... Dr. Tenpenny. Dr. Tenpenny was, I know, on your show just before I was there. And I was marveling that you were way out front of this... narrative. So, I mean, can you talk a little bit about that? Because it was, I really just gained so much respect for you at that point, realizing how you're, you know, you're putting it out there. Yeah, well, you know, it kind of started back, and I may get in trouble for this,

but it's okay, I can get in trouble on your show. With childhood vaccinations and all my kids were vaccinated. I didn't know then what I know now, but just the number and the, you know, and the correlation between, you know, the MMR and parents that I'd interviewed that their kids, their babies were normal, then they'd have the third or fourth set or whatever, and they would have autism. I mean, you can argue about all you want, but, I mean, Robert Kennedy Jr., I had him on, Del Vigree, all of them. So when this came along about the COVID shot, you know, I again went to those sources of doctors that I know to be honest and reliable. and so yeah I did interview Dr. Tenpenny also interviewed Dr. Peter McCullough, I mean Dr. Robert Malone,

Dr. Pierre Corey, you know, who's talking about abermectin. And he was so excited because like this can help people. And then all of a sudden, Dr. Simone Gold from California and all this information is being withheld and she treated people there in the emergency room in California. And then they come and say, you can't use that. I mean, it was just not adding up. And so all these doctors would be censored and I mean crucified. And this was like 2020, early 2021.

And so Daystar was a platform that was not controlled by the pharmaceuticals. It was not controlled by commercials. And so all I wanted to know was the truth to help people because in the midst of all this, why people are getting these vaccinations. And I don't, you know, if people want to get the vaccination, that's fine. But we should have all the information concerning what's in. these vaccinations and the MRNA technology and how dangerous it is and how it compromises the immune system and then i mean interviewing dr michael yaden who is the vp of fizer there in the uk

and him saying this is one of the most dangerous things i've ever seen like you have to pay attention some of these people eric are very smart in their field and it's like they were being shut down everywhere and so i can't tell you people literally from around the world still tell me today that you gave us on Daystar, the truth concerning, you know, what the vaccine is, you know, what's really in it and was it really tested, what are the side effects? How many people have been affected? I mean, on it, on and on, because you gave us that information, you allowed us to make a decision.

Because I told people, look, if you feel like you're supposed to get it, get it, for those of you that feel like you're not supposed to, you know, here's the information you don't know. And that's all I was seeking was the truth. And I do remember that was early on when you were here. Yeah. And it was so funny because you told me later. I went over there and they're all getting a shot.

I'll never forget it, Joni. I will never forget it. And when people tell you you can't talk about something, that's when my eyes, you know, I just go, wait a minute, I can't talk. What do you mean? That's when, you know, so we'll continue to talk about the stuff that we're not supposed to talk about when we come back talking to Joni Lamb.

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But for a limited time, spelled M-O-I-N-K, Moinkbox.com slash Eric. That's moinkbox.com slash Eric. Moinkbox.com slash Eric. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such wonderful relief. If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise or just getting older, you should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you.

It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more. I'm one of them. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Welcome back. I'm talking to Joni Lamb, L-A-M-B, who is co-founder and president of Dase, TV network. And Johnny, we were just talking about, you know, the responsibility. I mean, I was just going to get to it, actually. The idea that, you know, you're the head of a network and you

have several programs that you do, I have this program and you feel this kind of pressure. You think there are all these people that listen to me. And I have an obligation to those people to try to get them the truth. And with the COVID vaccine and that whole business, bizarre season and we're still not through it. But we've never lived through anything like that before where you want to get to the bottom of something and people are telling you, oh, you can't talk about that or that person you want to talk to, they've been censored, they've been vilified, whatever. And I think that, you know, some people back off right away, but then there are other people like you and me that go, wait a minute, no, that's, that doesn't seem right. This is the

United States of America. And I'm trying to help people. I know my heart. I'm trying to help people. I'm not getting paid to dispense false information. And then you begin thinking, well, maybe the people on the other side are getting paid to dispense false information. So when they're telling doctors you can't use ivermectin, you can't do that. We all who are paying attention said, this does not seem right. But we paid a price and we were attacked and you were attacked viciously, especially with the passing of your dear husband. I mean, it's really ugly.

Yeah. I mean, I can remember hearing some of the commentators on some of the other networks and, you know, and say, well, it's really interesting, you know, Marcus Lamb died of COVID and he was against a shot. Had he been vaccinated, he would have lived, which is a complete lie. And so I go into the detail of what happened with Marcus. I had COVID. He had COVID at the same time. He also had a preexisting condition type 2 diabetes. and he also had a heart condition that we did not know about.

So he actually recovered and tested. He was not positive for COVID in the hospital. We were there for 17 days. But his heart just stopped. I mean, November of 2021, November 30th at 4 a.m. in the morning, I was in the room. my son-in-law, Josh, Joshua Brown, who's actually born in Australia. He's married to my daughter, was there with me. And the team came in probably 10 people, and they never got a pulse.

They couldn't even use the paddles because they couldn't get a pulse. But, I mean, I've interviewed enough people, Eric, to know people that have died and come back. I mean, one pilot that interviewed was died for 11 hours and came back. And I'm always interested in their stories. but I knew from looking at him that that that was an empty shell. I knew he wasn't there, but it was a very traumatic. I never in a million years thought that he would graduate at 64 years young. But, you know, I talk about that in the book and how I continued on.

It's interesting because he had left instructions with all the family that in the, like six months prior, or just out of the blue, he'd send an email and said, I just want everyone to know if anything, or it ever happened to me that your mother would, you know, be in charge of Daystar. And I looked to him like, you know, why are you doing that? That's, you know, but you can look back and see almost like the hand of God in preparation because God knows what's going to happen.

And for me, I think, Eric, I had to get to that place where I understood that he finished his race because our timing is not always God's timing. And I had seen so many. miracles. I mean, you talk about supernatural things over the last 40 years of being with Marcus Lamb. I knew that he had stepped across and had heard well done. But again, our timing is not always, God's timing. We don't always understand everything. But the one thing the Lord said to me through that process over and over again, through that storm, as he said, two words to me, trust me. And I'd be like, okay, yes, I've been with you long enough to know that I can

trust you. And I did. And he was faithful through all of it. Well, you, the title of the book is Through the Storm, Courageous Faith in Turbulent Times. And Joni, you've been through a number of storms. So I want to just want to touch on some of them. You're talking about the biggest one in so many ways. You know, not only suffering the loss of your dear husband at such a young age, but then hearing the attacks in the media, you know, for your stance on the vaccine and so on and so forth, just the viciousness of that. And it is, that is all just so hard. But you've been through a lot of stuff. You were referring to something that happened 2007. I don't know if you're able to allude to that or, or talk about it more explicitly, but I know that's part of the

book. That's a big storm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's appropriate for me to share it now that Marcus is with Jesus. But that was a very private storm that we went through in 2007. I found out that my beloved, who I adored, and he adored me, was involved with someone that was working very closely with him. And I had always said, you know, boy, if that happens, you know, I was one of those women that said, if that ever happens to me, I will divorce him, you know. But you get in, you're in those shoes all of a sudden and it's a totally different story we're about to celebrate 25 years of marriage we have three kids and a ministry that's growing and um i didn't know what to do so i tell the story in the book i said that i came home and uh before i confronted him with the fact that i knew

this was going on i um i had it all set what i was going to do and then i thought maybe i should pray about this. And so I stopped and just prayed. And I felt the Lord say to me so clearly, he's worth fighting for. Now hang on a second, Joni. This is, it doesn't get bigger. It doesn't get bigger than this. We're going to a break. But when we come back, I want to talk to you about this because there are a lot of people going through similar things. And this is important. We'll be right back, folks, talking to Joni Lamb. The book is Through the Storm. Hey, this is Eric Metaxis. For years, I've told you about new. Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993.

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I'm talking to my friend Joni Lamb. She is the head of Daystar TV, has a bookout called Through the Storm, Courageous Faith in Turbulent Times. Joni, I mean, for you to share this publicly, this is, you know, everybody's nightmare that someone that they love would betray them effectively. I mean, how else do you see it?

And you just said that, like, like any normal person, you're angry, you make a decision, but you say, okay, but I'm going to pray, obviously. And you're, I mean, say it again, what God said to you in the midst of this nightmare for any married person that God said to you he's worth fighting for. Was that the word? Were those the words? Yeah, I mean, you have to put it in context to the fact that I had an intimate relationship

with the Lord for many years. and based my life on the Word of God. So I knew that going to him and talking to him would be the most important thing I could do. So obviously I'm devastated, kind of in a daze, and I went back to the house, and nobody was there. Jonathan was off at college. The two girls were in high school.

They weren't there. And I just prayed, and I was just like, Lord, you know, I don't know what to do. and very clearly he said to me he's worth fighting for. And so I just, I took him at his word. And Marcus came home that day and he'd been playing golf. And I remember he called my name out. I mean, you have to understand Marcus had always been an amazing husband,

never done anything. And everybody knew how much we loved each other. We built the ministry together. And so I just said, you know, I need to talk to you. and he sat down and I just told him I know what's going on. But it was interesting, Eric, because I don't think it was natural, number one, to be calm and number one to just have the state of mind to sit there and have a conversation with him the way I did accept

that the Holy Spirit, you know, that calming force was there. And anyway, he broke down and just said, I'm so sorry. I think he said, I felt like I've been on a merry-go-round going 100 miles an hour and didn't know how to get off. And I was afraid I was going to lose you. And, you know, I didn't know. And some people say, well, he got caught.

Well, yeah, he did. But I know my husband. And the next thing he did was say, I'll do anything, you know, to save our marriage. And so anyway, I go into more detail in the book. We went through counseling. And I will say that later, on. I did scream and was angry and said words probably I've never said before. And that was part of the healing process that you go through. But we went to counseling in 2007 and God restored our marriage.

He stepped down. He submitted to godly counsel. And Marcus is a very humble man. And, you know, my kids were like, well, mom, why are you going to tell that story? Because dad's gone. And I said, well, and a lot of times he compared himself to David in the Bible. I said they didn't leave out the mistakes David made. And so if we can share this, and your dad is a hero on the other side of this because he did the right thing. And you got to see that walked out. Yes, he was human. He made a terrible mistake.

But then he did the right thing. He repented. He submitted. And then we worked through it. It wasn't easy. But we helped a lot of marriages on the other side of it. And of course, in 2010, I tell more of the story. story. We came out public and told our story and went on Dr. Field, Good Morning America,

you know, and it was really hard for him because at that point we were healed and all of a sudden people were just hearing that for the first time. But I was glad that it was out because you always feel like there's little whisperings, you know, and I just wanted to lay everything out in the light. And that's what we did. And God brought us through that storm. And from two, 2007, you think about when that happened to 2021 when he graduated to heaven and we were married almost 40 years. The Daystar grew exponentially. I mean, amazing. And I think, you know, when I talk about it in the book later on, the Lord's going to remind me of my obedience. He brings another man into my life. That's in the book. After, you know, because Marcus, that's another thing.

He told me, said, if anything ever happens to me, I want you to remarry. And I would be like, I'm never getting married and nothing's happening to you. So funny, what you say, you know, when you don't even know, when you don't know, when you don't know what you don't know. And so anyway, later on when God brings this man into my life and I'm thanking him for that because I didn't ever see that coming, the Lord said to me, I never forget obedience, Joni. I never forget obedience. And so, yeah, we have the storms and it was a terrible storm. That one was. and then there was a worse one coming when he passed away. But God is so faithful, Eric.

And, you know, I feel like there may be people like in the middle of a storm right now. And God is saying, you know, just hold on. Corey Tim Boom, I quoted this in the book. She said, in order to realize the worth of the anchor, we need to feel the stress of the storm. And storm builds character. And it is a refining fire. And we're better on the other side of it, even though we don't like going through it.

Well, that's the thing. It's like, I think that, you know, a lot of people have confused theology. They kind of act like, well, no, I'm not going to go through a storm. You know, I'm speaking victory. It's like, well, wait a minute. A lot of times victory comes because you go through the storm with Jesus. You go through it with him. He takes you through it. And you get victory through the storm. So anybody who wants a storm is a fool. We don't want storms. We don't want trials. We don't want. You don't look for that. You know, because you can have people. make a theology of that. Like I'm going to, I just want to suffer all the time because that's the most godly thing. Well, no. And if God isn't called you to suffer, it's not godly. But if the Lord allows us to go through something, the question is, can we trust him? Will we trust him in the midst of it and put our hand in his hand and let him lead us through whatever that is? Because we don't know. And, you know, right now, as we sit here, we have storms in our lives right now. We have storms we're going to go through, but praise the Lord. The scripture is so clear. Rejoice in the Lord always. Be anxious for nothing. So the Lord wants us to look to him in the midst of these things.

The story you just told, Joni, you know, about finding out, you know, every woman's nightmare to find out this story of infidelity, whatever. But then that you had a relationship with God and you could hear him tell you, this is worth fighting. for it. This man's worth fighting. And then for you to actually obey. Wow. And then you get to see huge victory on the other side. I mean, this is delightful to talk to you. You've got one more segment. I'm talking to Joni Lamb, the book, brand new book, Through the Storm. Welcome back. Talking to my friend, Joni Lamb, L-A-M-B. That's easy. The book is called Through the Storm. So in a sense, Johnny, when you say through the storm, we go through the storm, we're in the storm,

but then we get through the storm to the other side. And if we walk through the storm with Jesus, when you get to the other side, you're not just beat up. Somehow God uses it, can use it to transform us, to sanctify us, to make us more like him, which is the goal of our lives. So, you know, you've just recounted two, just two brutal things. I mean, really brutal storms that you have endured. And you did it publicly.

I just want to say that is all the more difficult because the lies. I mean, a lot of times people suffer, but they don't have lies broadcast about them, that they have to kind of, you've got to take that to the Lord. I mean, that must be really in some ways the hardest part or one of the hardest things is when you're a public figure and your life is out there and people are judging you. You're not just a public figure. You're a public figure in the Christian world. So people kind of, there's a harshness in a sense that people come because if you screw up or if there's a problem, they just judge you.

They feel a freedom really to judge you. And I know that's just been a part of your story. Yeah, you know, I think an important part of this story, Eric, is that, when Marcus graduated to heaven, I had to make the decision, am I going to get up and continue to do what God's called me to do, or am I going to go on a sabbatical? There are people like, you should take six months off. I'm like, no way.

I mean, I think I would go into depression if I took six months off. But what I did was I made the decision to get up and to continue to do what God had called me to do. And although it wasn't always easy, I found that giving out and ministering to people and loving people and continuing to do the show and help people that as I did that, that it's like grace and mercy came back my way. You know, it's like it was part of the healing process where God was able to put my heart

back together because when you lose a spouse, seriously, it is the worst wound because half of your heart is taken away. And so God knew I needed that. I went through that process. I talked about it in the book. I talk about, you know, what happened. and after and just walking through that. It wasn't easy. But that's a real key is that, you know, when you're in pain, continue to do what God's called you to do and a sacrifice of praise,

you know, a sacrifice of worship. And when you do those things, it really comes back in a blessing in a way that's indescribable. And healing comes back into your life. And joy does come in the morning. It really does. Well, listen, it's important for so many people to hear that I know there are people listening right now. They're going through something, and I want to encourage them. And I get encouraged, Joni, because I try to surround myself with Christian brothers and sisters who have the kind of faith that you do to remind ourselves, God is real. He's a wonderworking God, a miraculous God, a God who can do miraculous things and does miraculous things and leave. leads us to that it's real, it's palpable. It's not just some idea. It's not just like,

well, I've got to live my life according to biblical principles and hang on, but that there's joy and that there's a relationship with a God who loves us. I mean, that's clear from your story. We're at a time, but I'm just excited to introduce you to my audience, Joni, and to let them know that the book, Through the Storm, I think as of today you can pre-order it, but it will be available soon through the storm. Joni Lamb of Daystar TV. Thank you for being my guest, Joni. Thank you, Eric.

God bless you. So good to see you today.