The Eric Metaxas Show - Joseph Arthur (continued)

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Musician Joseph Arthur introduces some new songs and shares his story of being shunned for voicing his opinion on vaccines. More at josepharthur.com.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Do you like your gravy thick and rich and loaded with creamy mushrooms? If no one was looking, would you chug the whole gravy boat? Chug, chug, chug, chug.

Stay tuned. Here comes Mr. Chugelagal. himself, Eric Ma, Texas. Hey folks, welcome to Hour 2. And I'm talking to Joseph Arthur, singer, songwriter. We're talking about so much. But, you know, one of the things that intrigued me was I realized, you know, when the Nazis, the thought police shut you down. Right.

You were really, and are, you know, you're well-known, especially in the music world. You've worked with, like, everybody. I mean, Peter Gabriel championed you early on, like, you know, 25 plus years ago. Peter Gabriel and- I was good friends with Lou Reed. You know what? Wow. Yeah, like, he was my home, he was my brother, you know.

I loved him a lot, yeah. And you obviously lived in on the Lowery side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we would hang out every day. Yeah. Yeah, and then, I mean, for a time, not every day of his life. Yeah, yeah. Like, there was a, there was a period there. But, you know, and yeah, I've been in a band with Jeff Amet from Pearl Jam.

Like you mentioned, Danny Harrison and Ben Harper, also Peter Buck and I have a band, Arthur Buck. And, you know. But the thing is, like, me speaking outside of the narrative that would frighten most people in the music business. Yeah. You know, because you're not, it's so strange because I don't care what other people, think to the degree that I could possibly have an emotional reaction from it. It just doesn't strike me that way. So I don't understand that in other people.

I could disagree with you. But it wouldn't make me like say, okay, I no longer want to go bowling with you because you think something different. You know what I mean? Like you could tell me I love Biden and I'd be like, okay, I think you're not seeing things clearly. But that would just be my opinion and who cares? Well, we can still be friends.

Seems like you're a big-hearted person. And I think that that's, you know, those of us who would say we're Christians or whatever, we're supposed to be big-hearted and open and understand that, you know, they're going to be people that are going to disagree with us, and we're supposed to love them and whatever. But that's what's so interesting to me is that when we're talking about this kind of stuff, how people wanted to cancel you or cancel me or tons of people that I've had on this program, They're like, we're going to crush that person like a bug.

We do not want them to have a voice. So they took this, you know, the Airman Taxi show was on YouTube. We had a huge following. And it was completely wiped out because I had Naomi Wolf on to talk about the vaccine. I had her on my show before too. And she's amazing. And she's been on the show many times. But just the idea that we had a conversation about vaccine mandates, not even the vaccine, about the mandate.

Not even the vaccine. I bet the mandates. And they were like, yeah, strike three. And you thought, okay, who would do that? Would nice people, like, totally shut down a show because we had a conversation? No.

And also nice people shouldn't hate you for having a different opinion. But this is a media invention. And the media keeps doing this and keeps influencing people this way. Like, for instance, every... So, like, if you take something like gender reassignment surgery for kids, Say you think that's a bad idea. Like you don't think 12-year-old should have gender reassignment surgery. I personally think that's a bad idea.

I don't think kids are ready to make that kind of permanent decision about something like that. Because they're not. At that age, that's my opinion. But then somebody would say, oh, that means you are intolerant of gay and trans people. And that is not true. That's conflating things that are not true. Just like it's happening. now, but it's happening with Israel, Palestine right now, too, the same thing and a different

thing. If you think, you know, the Israel's response to what they're doing to Gaza right now is not right or not what they should be doing, that means you're pro Hamas and that you hate Jewish people. And those things don't mean the same thing. You might think, hey, I don't think that's the right way to respond. That doesn't mean you hate Jewish people. What you I don't think kids should have a gender reassignment surgery. It doesn't mean you hate gay people. It's just, but that's what the media does. They go, this means this.

And then you should hate this. It's all very black and white and extreme. There's no room for nuance. In some ways, it's not necessarily even the media. It's social media. It's really what you're talking about is a mob mentality. It's a mob mentality without nuance. And I see both sides doing it.

It's like, why are you doing that? Like, we are sensitive beings that can think deeply about things. These are complicated situations that require a lot of nuanced conversation. And it's not this black and white thing. Well, okay, you know what I mean? It's crazy. I mean, it's so interesting because in our lifetimes, we haven't seen this. And so suddenly a few years ago, I mean, talking about the election.

Like, I mean, I just saw clearly, I said, wait a second, this looks fishy. It's fishy to say the least. Even if I'm wrong, you're not going to tell me I can't talk about it. You can't say it looks fishy. You can't say it looks fishy. But they did say that. Biden got more votes than Obama in his heyday by a lot. Like that guy, I mean, that looks fishy.

But you know what? I'm sorry. Like, does that make me crazy because that looks fishy? I want to tell you, this is to me the worst part of it in a way, right? Right. is what this kind of stuff has done is it has made people cynical. In other words, there are people who say like, well, yeah, the election was still in like, whatever, who cares?

And you think, who cares? How emotionally dead are you that you don't care that, you know, the greatest nation in the history of the world that has freedom, where every person is supposed to have a voice, it's this beautiful idea. And you don't even care if some people, you know, People just said, well, not this time. Trump is Hitler and we're going to do whatever it takes. And you think, well, no, that's not really.

That's up to the American voter to decide. And they said, well, we no longer trust the American voter. We don't care. It's wild. So you still like Trump, right? Do I still like Trump? Should we not talk about that right now? I love Trump.

I mean, I think he's amazing. Does his vaccine stance bomb you out? Well, look, just because I would vote for somebody or like somebody doesn't mean I agree with them on everything. And there is zero doubt that on that issue, I would disagree. I don't know where he stands on that now. In other words, because a lot of his base, I think, has given him a ton of pushback so that he's. But, you know, he's not the kind of guy to easily say, oh, yeah, I made it wrong. It's a beautiful vaccine.

We did a beautiful job with that. Yeah, yeah. Now, listen, I almost find it funny because he's not, he doesn't seem capable of saying like, oh, yeah, I got that wrong, which he should. Obviously, he should. But no, I mean, I think that, I mean, I've said this before, but I think, listen, people can think what they want. But I do think it's true that Trump is a very different person than he was in 2016. In other words, the stuff that has happened, he was very naive. He came in, like, okay, I was elected president. Now I get to, and it's kind of like when you think of Lincoln, you know, he wanted people that opposed him politically to be in his cabinet because he thought, you know, I want to get along with everybody. So Trump did that and he invited in, uh, naively some people who were gunning for, yeah, well, Fauci's just one of the worst examples.

But there's many examples of people that he, he just said like, you know, come on in and we can all reason together. And he didn't know that they were not there to reason together. They were there to take him out. And so I think he's been so relentlessly attacked that I think he's kind of awake to this stuff in a way that he was not at all. Let's hope so. Yeah, well, I mean, we'll see.

But I mean, that's my sense. But it's just, it's interesting because we were talking about the vaccine, you're talking about election fraud. Trump is another one of those triggers for people that they can't have a conversation. just go crazy. Yeah, it's nuts. And I'm not interested in, like, arguing with somebody like that. Again, it's a media invention, you know, it's, it's the media, the, we're finding out how susceptible humanity is to propaganda in ways that I don't think we could have fathomed. There's a story of, like, Russian people coming over here and going like, oh, yeah, like, your propaganda is so much

better in America than in Russia. Yeah. And the guy goes like, well, wait a minute, Russia's famous for propaganda. It's like, yeah, the difference is in Russia, we all know it's propaganda. Wow. Right? And we got to go to a break. We'll be right back. I'm talking to Joseph Arthur, singer-songwriter, radio host.

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Your most famous song, if somebody looks you up, is in the sun, right? Yeah. And I discovered you through Fistful of Mercy, the album that you did. Yeah, with Ben Harper and Danny Harrison. But can you play a little bit of In the Sun? Yeah, yeah. I picture you in the sun, wondering what went wrong. Falling down on your knees.

Asking for sympathy. But in between. all you wish for and all you see I'm trying to find anything you can feel that you can make God's love be with you I would apologize if I could see your eye because when you showed me myself you know I someone else

I was caught in but to wish for in all you've seen. I picture you fast asleep. A nightmare comes, but you can't keep away. Thank God's love be with you. Make God's love be with you. That's beautiful. What year did you write that? That was a long time ago.

I think that was in the 90s, something like that. In London. I lived in South London. Stratum Common, St. Ratham. South London, mate. You know what I mean? Easy. Do you know what I'm in gays are?

Come on, let's go to the pub, mate. You know, I mean. Wait, I'm riding in the sun, mate. I'll come. So you're a little... Wow, I didn't know you were living in London. I lived in London, yeah. I mean, that's an example of,

may God's love be with you. And, you know, you're... It's just beautiful. And people are going to hear that in different ways. Right. But it's just interesting to me that you wouldn't say, like, it's a quote-unquote Christian song. Right.

Because what does that even mean? But I was saying, I think I said to you last night that a number of years ago, Phil Kagee. Yeah, Phil Keggi. Ohio's own. Amazing Christian musician, right? And so he was like, you know, praised in the Christian music world. And then he wrote, then he did an instrumental album, master musician. So the religious people were kind of like, well, is it a Christian album?

Because it doesn't have Christian lyrics. And you think, you know, like these are questions that are, you know, is it a Christian tree? Is it a Christian bird? Is it a Christian glass of water? You know, did Christians make this desk? It was the wood harvested by Christians. Like it just becomes so preposterous and so religious. And I think we need to push back against that.

I like stories about Paul, right, in the Bible, Paul. Yeah. I've heard of Paul. I believe he was an apostle. I believe he wrote most of the New Testament. And he struggled with sin and everything. These things I don't want to do, I keep doing, and the things I do want to do, I don't do. And it's like he's very relatable and just like also just his life with like being sort of, you know, beaten and just chased after and just tormented.

And he learned how to live a life in peace even as life was coming down at him all the time. I find him like so inspiring because he is. one of us, you know, and yet he did, he was heroic within being very human. Yeah. I mean, I haven't heard anybody put it that way recently, but that is totally true. Right. But because I think sometimes, you know, we have this temptation to, to turn our heroes into superheroes and forget that he, even Jesus, like Jesus did not, he was fully human

while he was here. So people think, like, well, he didn't. suffer he was God. Like, no, no, no, no, no. He did. So Paul, man. Do you think Jesus is God or the son of God? Yes, I do. Both. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. It's definitely... You believe in the Trinity? Oh, my goodness. Yes. I think it's pretty basic. Right. We don't even allow Unitarians in the studio. Oh, okay. No, it's, it's interesting because, uh, that I didn't expect to have a theological discussion. We don't have to. I just thought we were going to like, you know, do BG's covers. We can do Bigi's cover. We can go back to BG's. I thought, you know what? You wrote a song speaking about the...

I'm a student of this and I don't have like strict beliefs on... I do believe Jesus is the way. I believe he died for me and rose. Yeah. Then whether you know you believe in the Trinity or don't you do. That's what's interesting. A lot of times people, it's kind of an enlightenment rationalist thing. Like, you know, since the 17th century, it's all got to be about, you know, I believe this and this and this. And and this and this. And there are people who know Jesus personally, but they never heard of the concept of the atonement. That doesn't mean that they're going to hell. But there's some people who almost would say,

well, no, you got to know. Or there's people that are studied that maybe don't have him in their heart, too. Boom. And that's the point of your book, too. But like when he says things like, forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do, if he's also the father, why doesn't he just say, I forgive you all? or like, like,

or like when he goes up, or when he goes off to pray, who is he praying to? Well, no, there's a word for that. So that's why I'm saying there are things where it goes like, the word is mystery, and a lot of people are uncomfortable with mystery. Right, right. There are things that there is no doubt that you say, there's a conundrum or a paradox, but there's some people that say,

no, I have to know. Everything has to be like spelled out, clear as a bell. Otherwise, it's of the devil. It's like, well, no, there's room for mystery. But or also he says, the things I do, you will do greater. So was he lying about that? Because if he's God, there's no way we're doing greater. Well, no, no, no.

I think in that case, he was talking about Jesus. But what he was trying to say is that, look, I am, while he was among us, he was a human being fully human, empowered by the Holy Spirit. And so when he ascends into heaven and sends down the Holy Spirit to live inside us, It means every single one of us is empowered as he was empowered. Yeah, he will be born again within us. Which is an amazing thing. So people don't, you know, when people say Jesus had the power to, you know,

heal the sick or raise the day, God has given us by the power of the Holy Spirit the ability to do those things as well. I think some people, though, will say he was God. And again, like you say, like what brings up back to Paul, like how he's like earthbound, like us, right? And so, but when people say, like, Jesus is this, you know, is God. So therefore, I can't live up to that. I'm a human.

But when he was here. So if you think of him as your brother and that you can also achieve that, it means you won't justify your own sinful nature. But that's the whole reason he came to earth, right? He shed his glory. He left his glory in heaven. He didn't come here as like the Jesus of Revelation or when we go to heaven. we're in the presence of Jesus.

Right. That's Jesus fully God. But when he came here, he, on purpose, was a human being who would feel pain and who would, you know, man, this is getting theological. We just have seconds left. You wrote a song called The Armor of God. And you play it on the harmonium, but you don't have a harmonium. But luckily, you have a guitar.

But this is a very recent song. Very recent. So if people look you up, they can find this. Put on the armor. Put on the armor of God. Put on the arm. Put on the helmet of salvation, the shield of faith, the shoes of peace. Remember you're in charge of your excavation of your own release.

Under the breastplate of righteousness, try and love your enemy. wearing the belt of truth underneath the coat of living free Put on the arm, put on the arm Because we're in a spiritual war Forces angling for control The devil seems bigger than before And his hands are playing with your very soul Trying to redesign

God's creation trying to rewrite the moral code. You may need to help your brother find salvation, even if it means picking up his load. Put on the arm. Put on the arm. Put on the arm. And from always have. Tell me why relief factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain.

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interviewed so many heroes, amazing, amazing people. But you do it all. You write children's books. We're going to talk about you've written many books. Now you've written another children's book called the magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln. First of all, congratulations on the book. Thank you, Eric. No, look, it's a great honor to be able to do what we do, to talk to some of the most

incredible people in the world, you know, intellectual giants, spiritual giants, artistic giants. I mean, you know, when I look back, you know, I've been doing this at EWTN for 28 years, when you look back at that span of time and realize the people who I was privileged, blessed to be in the presence of, I mean, and knew well, I mean, Jerry Lewis became a friend. He would call me and critique the broadcast, you know, pick up the pace kid, this is slow. You know, Mel Gibson's a pal. You know, it's, it was amazing. And to know those popes, Pope's, Pope Benedict, I saw him. many times, we had dinner together. That proximity, you almost take it for granted when it's happening.

But in retrospect, you realize what a great gift. Oh, no, it's unbelievable. And I've had the privilege of interviewing a number of people. But, I mean, look, when you talk about Jerry Lewis, oh, my gosh, the idea of talking to Jerry Lewis, Mother Teresa takes the cake. I'll tell you, I don't think I've said this to you, but when I spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast in 2012, I thought, what am I going to say? Hey, this is a great honor, right?

So I asked, can you send me, you know, they send me the CDs of previous speakers. And I think I've, I don't know if I've said this publicly. Yeah. But one after the other was an anodyne bipartisan dud. Yeah. Not naming names, but it's like, well, we know we don't want to, we don't want to speak too strongly because we have people on both sides,

good and evil. We don't want to offend the people that are in bed with evil. So we don't want to read it. And I watched them. Then I watched Mother Teresa. I was in awe of the quiet authority. She spoke with the authority of God. And when I watched her speech, that was what inspired me to say everything I said in my speech.

I said, I have an obligation before God after I watched what she said to say what I said. So the fact that you were privileged to interview her. Not only that, I was at both of those prayer breakfasts. Eric. I was at yours and I was at Mother Teresa's. In fact, I ended up being one of the pool reporters at Mother Teresa's, you know, when she spoke at that prayer breakfast. The room was at capacity. And I was one of the few people who actually got to see her deliver that speech, because if you remember, the microphones. Oh, I'll never, I'll never forget it. If people are watching this on video, folks, we're not making this up, okay? And you kind of wonder, what,

what kind of the dunderheads that they couldn't figure out that she's four foot 11? No. The microphone was like this the whole time. And she was talking. like this. But the power, the authority, and, you know, a lot of times, people in the press afterward made it sound like she was like dunking on the Clintons with the abortion stuff.

She was not. I mean, she spoke with this authority and with this power. It was respectful, but powerful. It was so powerful. But honestly, that made me realize, like, that's, I want to be like that. I don't want to be like any of these other folks

that I've watched, who shall remain nameless. I'm so kind, charitable of you, Eric. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Well, okay, Raymond, so you've done so many things, and I could talk to you for days, but you have written many books. The new book is a children's book. I've written many children's books, and they're kind of harder to write than adult books in many ways.

So much hard. What gave you the idea to write this new book, which is called The Magnificent Mischief? of Tad Lincoln. For our audience, tell us who was Tad Lincoln. For some people, aren't old enough to remember Tad. Like you, I kind of stumble onto these stories. And for years, I covered the White House turkey part. And everybody knows that.

They bring a turkey out every year. The president pardons it. And the turkey goes to some farm in Virginia. And I remember asking White House staffers during the Bush years, during the Obama years, and into the Trump administration, what's the origins of this? And some said, well, it was Harry Truman. and others said it was JFK, all of that is wrong. I tracked it down and it led me to this beautiful story of Tad Lincoln,

the youngest son of Abraham Lincoln. It turns out they are the reason that we have this beautiful national tradition of a turkey pardon, and it's much more than sparing a bird. It's tied not only to this turkey pardon tradition, and one wonders why does this keep going? This magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln will give you an insight, to what it was really about. The powerful family story of hope, forgiveness, and mercy.

That's at the core of this. But it's also tied to Thanksgiving as a federal holiday, which Abraham Lincoln declared so in 1863, the same year, incidentally, that he pardons his son's turkey. And we can get into it if you're like. It's a great story. I mean, honestly, I love learning things, and I didn't know this. And then once you learn it, you're like, how did I not know this?

That's the point, right? That's the point. Right. So, okay, the book is titled The Magnificent Mischief of Tad Lincoln. I'm talking to Raymond Arroyo. Oh, you got it, right. I love the rolling of the R.

Hello. And we're going to be right back. We're talking to Raymond Arroyo, A-W-R-O-Y-O, The Magnificent Mischief of Tad Lincoln is the book. Don't go away. Welcome back. We're talking to Raymond Arroyo. And if you, or Arroyo,

depending on how you want to say it. But if you watch EWTN, you know who I'm talking to, and you're very impressed that I have them on the show. Raymond, you have a book out. We just talked about it, The Magnificent Mischief of Tad Lincoln. A lot of people don't know the origins of Thanksgiving, much less the turkey pardon.

So talk about that, because Lincoln really was, in so many ways, an anointed figure. God put him in that role. He was a prophet, things that he said. I mean, he refers to God in his second inaugural. I heard Gary Bauer say this the other day. In his second inaugural, he refers to God one way or the other 13 times. So anybody who tells you about, oh, we've got the separation church and state, presidents can't talk about God.

That is baloney because Lincoln was all about that, and that's at the heart of Thanksgiving. But go ahead. Well, and as you know, Lincoln was not a religious man. He was not a churchgoer anyway when he came to the White House. But I think the pressure of being president, while the country was so divided, forced him to his knees and he discovered God. And you certainly see more God talk as his presidency continues. And it's a beautiful thing because, you know, what I didn't realize also, and I had read Lincoln biographies, but somehow it didn't register, Eric. Tad Lincoln, the youngest son of Abraham Lincoln, and Willie Lincoln are the only two boys that go into the White House with him.

Willie dies of what many think probably scarlet fever in the White House. Well, the loss of Willie and the crushing depression of the civil war that he's losing drives Abraham Lincoln into this deep depression. But in the middle of that, there was this odd family story that everybody has kind of overlooked that I dug into and did a lot of research on. Tad Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln became inseparable during that period. He would go and review troops with Tad Lincoln. He would go to major speeches with Tad.

Staffers of Lincoln say Abraham Lincoln indulge this hellion of a child. And he would, you know, hitch goats to dining room tables and gallop them through the east room. He'd turned chairs over. I mean, the kid was a bit of a menace. But every time these staffers write this in diaries, they always say, and there was the president, doubled over in naying laughter. And I thought, why have I never seen this image of Abraham Lincoln? And it turns out, at least in my appreciation of it, Tad Lincoln was Abraham Lincoln's touchstone to normalcy, to joy,

and to the hope that lay on the other side of the hellscape that he was living through. And it's a beautiful reminder to us as parents and his mentors of children, let children be children. And that's at the core of this story, the power of a child, not only to save a father, you know, this is, I called this series, the Turnabout Tales series. In the first one, it was about Edison, whose mother saved him. He was thrown out of school at 8, told he was an idiot.

His mother homeschools America and created the greatest inventor of all time. In this story, you have a son who saves his father's life, Tad Lincoln, because in many ways he rescues his father from depression and loss. And in the doing, they leave this beautiful national tradition at Thanksgiving, which is the turkey pardon. When Willie died, Tad befriends this turkey. teaches him tricks, teaches him to walk behind him, walks him on a leash. Well, the day comes, Christmas Day, the chef grabs up the turkey,

and Tad Lincoln goes crazy because the chef is about to kill his pet Jack. Now, this is a true story. True story. I mean, this is all true. So you're telling me that after the death of one of Lincoln's boys, that Tad, the surviving boy, befriends a turkey becomes his pet at the White House. You know what this reminds me of as you're talking about all of this? It reminds me of the R-gang comedies, the Little R-Ga-R-Ga-R-Ga-R-Gasks,

where that kind of childhood that's so delightful to see the mayhem of these kids. I've loved the little rascals and R-Gang stuff my whole life. But it's that kind of innocence and joy that, you know, they're always at some rich person's house doing some insane thing. But, I mean, the idea that this is happening at the White House, and you're not making this up, this is real. This happened. These are all historic facts. You can find them in multiple biographies.

And to be honest, I had to go back to source materials, Eric, to the diaries of Lincoln's secretaries, a woman who babysat the boys early on. You find it in little nooks and crannies in the biographies, but it's very hard. So I put the entire story of Tad Lincoln together. But, again, it was really that national. tradition, that White House turkey pardon that drove me to the story. And when I discovered this sweet family tale and that innocent child being a mischievous, the magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln, not only did it leave its mark on his father, it left its mark on the nation. And I think, you see, Abraham Lincoln would entertain pardons into the evening. People would line up

outside the White House during the war and beg the president to forgive their sons who would abandon the warfield and return their property. And Tad Lincoln would, was reclined next to the president's desk listening and watching this. He watched his father. You said earlier, he was an anointed figure. Lincoln would hear these pardons and show these people such mercy and grace and forgiveness. He forgave 82% of the people who came forward and begged pardons of him. Tad Lincoln watched all that.

And at this moment, when his turkey is taken to the kitchen to be killed, he grabs the turkey, runs upstairs into the cabinet, room and begs his father to pardon his turkey. And, I mean, it brings tears in my eyes when I think about it. But it's a gorgeous story. And it's a wonderful way, I think, for families not only to deepen and enrich their Thanksgiving, it will give new meaning to this holiday tradition. But it also reminds us of Lincoln's vision of Thanksgiving as a national holiday, what he intended with it and from it.

Say a bit about that, because this is really important to understand where this came from. You bet. You bet. Well, in his declaration, you know, there were people lobbying the president for many years. They wanted to set Thanksgiving as a specific holiday at a particular date. It was celebrated hodgepodge over several weeks across the country. Lincoln, in the same year, he pardons Tad's Turkey, he establishes Thanksgiving as a national holiday on the last Thursday. And in his proclamation, he writes this, and boy, do we need this today, Eric. He says, it's a season of forgiveness. unity and that we have to, in penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, firmly implore the almighty hand of God to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it, to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union. And I thought, wow, now we need this more than ever, and I never thought that when I wrote this book. But at this moment, I think it's providential that all of this is sort of coming down. There can be no doubt.

Folks, we've got one more segment talking to Raymond Arroyo. The book is The Magnificent Mischief of Tad Lincoln. Don't go away. Welcome back. We're talking to Raymond Arroyo. The book is the magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln. Raymond, you wrote a book you're calling this Turnabout Tales. These are children's stories.

You wrote a book about Edison. The more we learn from history, the more we want to learn. At least that's my experience. Every time I write a book or read a book or whatever, I just think, oh, how did I not know this? I want to know more and more and more. It's so fascinating.

There are a lot of bad history books out there, but when you get a good one, you just think there is nothing better than this. So tell us a little bit about the Edison book, because I'm fascinated with him. You talk about the quintessential American figure, my goodness. Oh, incredible. And, you know, the man who made the century in Eric, Look, to even sit with you, I mean, talk about somebody who shared amazing historical stories that were lost, Wilberforce and Bonhofer.

I mean, on and all. I could go, squanto, I could go on all day. But what I loved about the, when I spoke to school groups, because I'd written a middle grade series for Randolph a few years ago, and speaking to school children, I realized there was so much of these historic figures that were part of our upbringing, just in passing, that was being squeezed out of curriculum. Yes. And I wanted to restore these figures. also make them accessible to kids and families. Yeah.

So I focus on all of these figures. They're young people or in their younger incarnations. In the case of Edison, young Edison, I call it the unexpected light of Thomas Alva Edison. Because at eight years old, Tom Edison is thrown out of school. He's told he's an idiot who can't be taught. And his mother takes him home and she feeds his natural passions for electricity and acids and experimentation and tinkering. She lets him play and make a mess, Eric.

And that is the end of his formal schooling. Edison was never trained beyond that. He learned and taught himself. He tinkered. In fact, you remember, he called his confreras in the Edison lab muckers. Because they mucked around. They played and twisted and tinkered with things until they discovered a breakthrough. It took him six thousand separate filaments until he found the right one for the lightball.

And that's really a key to how. he learned and how he discovered. It was a hard-nosed kind of playful discovery and invention. So that was the first book, and a turnabout tale is very simple. All my turnabout tales are challenges faced, decisions made, and history turned. And that's not only in these historic lives. It's in all of our lives and our children's lives as well. And I wanted to make sure families could enter into that and experience these stories together. That's why I turned them into picture books and not chapter books. So the book we've been talking about is the magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln.

Talk about boys will be boys. I mean, this was a boy, and his father delighted as any sane adult delights in it when they see children as children. There's something so beautiful in that, but most of us don't know the story of Tad Lincoln and the turkey. But it's just so wonderful that you've resurrected this. because, you know, again, I'm always amazed when I learned something and I think, how did we not all know that? I know.

I have the same feeling, Eric. I knew. I covered that turkey part and standing there in the Rose Garden, umpteen times. Yeah. And no one could give me a clear answer. I'm delighted that I discovered what the answer is. And to restore Tad Lincoln in this beautiful story of a father and a son and the power of that relationship, not only to save a family, but to shape and hopefully uplift a nation. And he had a hand in that, little tad. I really believe that if we're going to get

through the current mess, and there's some question. We're in, as far as I'm concerned, this is the third existential crisis in America, the first of the Revolution Civil War. We're going through the third right now. If we're going to get through it, we need to teach these stories from history. We need to know our history. So Raymond Arroyo, thank you for your part in that. The book is the magnificent mischief of Tad Lincoln. Congratulations again, and thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Eric. And they can learn more at Raymondarroyo.com.

I've got videos and all kinds of things. Raymondarroyo.com. I forgot to say that. Raymondarroyo.com.