The Eric Metaxas Show - Joseph Loconte Discusses The Amazing Dr. Benjamin Rush—Founding Father and Father of Psychiatry

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Joseph Loconte discusses Dr. Benjamin Rush—Founding Father, Declaration signer, and pioneering physician, educator, and reformer. More at:    / @joeloconte  

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. But now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. It's my joy right now to have as my guest, a friend of many, many years, Dr. Joseph P. Leconte. Joe, did I pronounce that correctly? Yes, you did, but there's no P. I don't know what you're getting the P from.

Ah, why not? You know what I'm saying? Why not? Yes, Joe's fine. Joe's good. I forgot what your middle initial was. I don't really have a middle name, but I've adopted my uncle Sal's name, Salvatore. I've just adopted it.

I have it's not legal. It's right. Maybe I just want to call you JP because it sounds, you know, hey, J.P., what's cooking? Listen, Joe, you're always tough. The more somebody's a friend of mine, the tougher it is for me to introduce them because I just, you know, think of you as a pal. And we've had so much fun together over the years because we have so many things in common, you know, C.S. Lewis and on and on and on. I want to talk to you about the 250th anniversary of the United States coming up next year. You're working on a YouTube series. Yes. What, what, I mean, if people want to find you online, just to say this in advance, because I think people will want to find you as we're talking here, what's the best place for people to find you online? Thank you for that question, Eric. If you go to YouTube at Joe Locanti, J-O-E-L-O-C-O-C-O-N-T-E, YouTube at Joe LaConte, you'll see the YouTube channel. If you can get a link up there on your own, your own social media matrix there, Metaxus, that would be terrific.

But that's where you can find me in the various historical YouTube documentaries we are now making. What do you call? Essays, short essays, meaning like 10 minutes or so, and then shorts, you know, 60-second shorts that you'll find. Okay, so you've written many books over the years, and I can say to my audience, they can guess this from the way you come across on the radio. You're very readable. You're accessible. So you're a scholar, but you're readable. And that's very rare.

and to me, that's always been very important. You know, when you pick up a book, you want it to be readable. And so your books are very readable. And I want to ask you about, you know, this series that you're doing on YouTube. It's really about Western civilization. It's about saving Western civilization. Last time you were on here, we talked about Cicero. Yes.

I think the bigger, the larger conversation is about how we have not been talking about Western civilization. something in the last 50 years has eroded our cultural knowledge. So your average person knows dramatically less about the West, about the Bible, about Shakespeare, about our shared heritage with Europe. Then, you know, when we were born, it wasn't that way. But over the decades, we have really entered a season where that knowledge, cultural knowledge has eroded. And it's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you

because you've been working on reversing that in my own way. And so you've got a YouTube series. What is it called? Yes. The one series we're getting ready to release here pretty soon, like within the next few weeks, is about Dr. Benjamin Rush, the American founding father,

what are the most important that most Americans have never heard of? I mean, Rush is a guy who's everywhere and seems to know everyone. He's a key player. He signs the Declaration of Independence. He's a chief surgeon in Washington's Army. He's there with Washington at Valley Forge, Crossing of the Delaware, Battle of Princeton.

He's patching up these soldiers. He's also an abolitionist. Here's a guy writing in the 1780s against slavery, in the 1770s, against slavery as one of the founding fathers. And he's a person of deep Christian faith. So I thought, let's tell this guy's story and by telling his story, we're telling the American story. The great, the amazing ideals, the political and religious ideals that we have,

they are embodied in Benjamin Rush in a powerful way, and we're going to tell that story in a four-part documentary series. In a four-part documentary series, now I'm excited about this. As I told you, I'm writing a book on the American Revolution, and it's really an epic story. I don't mean my book is, I mean, my book will be, I suppose, but it's because the story of the revolution is an epic. story. There's so many pieces and so many players and so many heroes. That's correct. Some of them

unsung or not properly sung, and I think Benjamin Rush is one of those. So you mentioned that he was there with Washington crossing the Delaware. I mean, that's a big deal. He was there at Valley Forge. He signs the Declaration of Independence. That's extraordinary. Now, who was he previous to 17, You said he was in a deep faith, yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. Here he is starting out his career as a doctor, a physician in Philadelphia. So he's a native Philadelphia, and he's trying to get his career off the ground. He develops a friendship with Ben Franklin.

And that begins to put him into that inner circle, then, of these early conspirators against the British ground. Hang on, Joe, because I only know because I'm doing, because I'm writing the book, everybody thinks that Benjamin Franklin is being in Philadelphia, but in 1756, I believe, he left Philadelphia for London and was there for basically 18 years. So when would Benjamin Rush in Philadelphia have become friends with Franklin? Was Benjamin Rush old enough to have become friends with him? I don't think. No, no, he was too young. But he knew of Franklin's reputation, of course, and when he wanted to go the medical school in England up in Scotland to train with the best, he crosses the Atlantic, he gets letters of recommendation from Benjamin Franklin. Benjamin Franklin liked to give out letters of recommendation to people he thought were up-and-comers, and he did that for Benjamin Rush.

And they then developed the friendship over the years. Well, that is really, that is extraordinary because I, well, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here. But so when, when, or what was Benjamin Rush doing before the revolution breaks out? I mean, he was practicing as a doctor in Philadelphia. Exactly right. He's practicing a doctor. He's trying to establish himself as a physician. That's what he's doing.

And he's treating people from all classes. And we'll see this as the revolution begins to get its legs with the first continental Congress, he'll be the guy treating the guys who are coming to Philadelphia, these early founders. But he's also treating the locals, you know, the folks who are poor. He establishes vaccines, free vaccines for people who need them, setting up a clinic right there in the initial halls of Independence Hall. They're treating people and inoculating them there in Independence Hall. So it's an amazing kind of... And just to be clear, this is before vaccines could kill you. In all seriousness, it's

an amazing thing as I've done my research to see how this was the period where they realized people are dying of smallpox, but we can inoculate people against smallpox. It's an amazing thing. So I know that he was involved in that. I also know that in Washington's army, many, that it was a real issue and people were being inoculated in the army during the war. But Benjamin Rush, when I think of him, the first thing I think of is his profound Christian faith. What, you know, stripe of Christian faith was he? Was he a Quaker? Was he a congregationalist? Do you know? Or how did he come to faith? Well, I don't, his family was pretty religious. His mother especially, I think, had a real influence on him. He went to a Presbyterian church. He got a little disenchanted with some of the teaching there. He kind of pulled out of that. But when you read some of his journals, he kept the commonplace book. And Eric, you probably know what that is, these kind of person. journals and diaries that men and women would keep in the 18th century. And when you read some of his

commonplace entries, his struggle with God, his belief in the scripture, he is drawn to his wife because they attend a sermon together from Reverend Witherspoon in Princeton. She's from Princeton family. And he is smitten with her after she tells him that was like the best sermon I've ever heard from Reverend John Witherspoon, he thinks, I've got to marry that girl at the end of the day. So it's a pretty cool story there, that whole coming together and his faith being a huge part of it. Well, we're going to go to a break in a moment. Folks, I'm talking to Joe LaCante. There's so much you've done, Joe. I hope people will find the channel on YouTube. Joe LaCante is the name. And we come back. We will talk more about it.

everything that's important, folks. That's what, that's our goal today. And we'll be right back. A major retail chain just canceled a massive order leaving MyPillow with an overstock of the classic My Pills. And this is your gain. Because for a limited time, My Pillow is offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard My Pillar for just 1798. Want more upgrade to Queen Size for only 2298 or King Size for 2498? Snag body pillows for 2998. and versatile multi-use pillows for just $998. Give your bet a whole new pillow set only while supplies last. Visit MyPillow.com today.

Use promo code Eric or call 800-9783057 to score these amazing deals while they're in stock. Plus, when your order totals $75 or more, you'll receive $100 in free digital gifts, no strings attached. That's right. Premium pillows at unbeatable prices and bonus gifts to top it off. Don't wait. Head to MyPillow.com today or call 800-9783057. Don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard my pillow for only 1798 only while supplies last. Welcome back, folks.

I'm talking to my friend, Dr. Joe Laconte, not to be confused with Joseph P. Lecante, who doesn't exist. Or if he does exist, he's never been on the program before. My evil twin. We don't talk about it. Yeah, yeah. We'll find him, though. We'll find him. We'll get him on the air.

So, Joe, you're making a four-part documentary where we've been talking about Dr. Benjamin Rush. He really is an extraordinary figure. I don't know that much about him, but we were talking about his profound Christian faith. And it's interesting, as I study all the founders now, you know, there were different, there were varieties of faith. Some of them were more outspoken about their faith. He really is at the top of that list. He was very outspoken about his faith. Was he not?

Yes, he was. And I think that the point to really emphasize here, Eric, is the application of his faith. to the different areas of his life, his vocational and civic life. So I'll give you a couple of examples. When he is a, he's working in the hospital there in Pennsylvania Hospital, one of the first hospitals in the country, Benjamin Franklin helped to establish it. He gets in there as a surgeon, and he realizes that the, the quote, unquote, mentally insane are being treated like animals, chained in cellars, in the basement of the hospital.

He says, this is inhumane. This has to change. We have to give them humane treatment and treat them like human beings and reach out to them and try to help them have a better life. So he's known as the father of psychiatry because he's a trailblazer. Benjamin Rush is known as the father of psychiatry. And I am convinced his Christian ethic, which really boiled down for him, I think the golden rule, treat others how you want to be treated. So that's one, a powerful example. Let me give you another one, though, and then we can pick up the discussion.

the malaria excuse me the um the the the uh the outbreak of uh that's smallpox of the malaria outbreak in 1793 in philadelphia um he stays at his post at yellow fever excuse me the yellow fever outbreak he stays at his post and treats patients remember they don't know the cause of yellow fever we know the cause mosquitoes back then they don't know and they don't know how to treat it people are dying by the dozens every week. Rush is treating them, bringing them into his own home. He won't leave his post. He won't. He contracts it himself and almost dies. And you see his own his journal, how he's crying out to God, you know, for help and his gratefulness when he recovers, his gratefulness to God and to Christ as he recovers. It's an amazing kind of story. But his courage and his determination,

his service to others, that's coming out of a deep place of faith, it seems to me, right? Well, I have to say, you know, I'm amazed as I'm writing my own book on how inescapably Christian our founders were or our founding was. You could never have the United States of America come into existence apart from the Christian faith that was at the bedrock of it all. It doesn't mean that everyone was an outspoken Christian, but it really was so assumed. It was as assumed then as a secular outlook is assumed now among our cultural elites. And I wonder if apart from revival, we can save the Republic, I guess. It seems to me that I have reasonably we're on the verge of revival, that they're great things happening. But, you know, when we talk about people like Benjamin Rush, but there's so many others,

they were they were dramatically Christian and the whole founding I mean as I as I study this period I just can't get over how outspokenly Christian they all were it really is dramatic no it's really important to emphasize this Eric that the Bible was a ubiquitous book in colonial America Protestant the Protestant culture in particular which was a Bible oriented culture even more so you could argue than Great Britain and even more I would say dramatically more than Great Britain. I mean, that's one of the things that's astonishing me, and it makes me understand the clash of these cultures at this moment is that they had grown apart. And as you know, I mean, when I wrote my Wilberforce book, Georgian England was the cultural elites in

Georgian England celebrated immorality. I mean, it really was extraordinary how they mocked the, what do they call them, the Bible-faced, you know, Americans. They mocked. the simple faith, especially those in Boston like John Adams. So it's really, it is interesting to me how Bible-based the Americans were at that period. Yes, and Edmund Burke, the great English politician, thinker and orator, Edmund Burke commented, and this is you know, Eric, that the Americans are not only there are Protestants, but they're Protestants of a particular stripe. They're dissenting Protestants. And that means they value conscience and the scripture. They take it deadly

seriously. And I think I had a conversation with James Hudson, who was the chief manuscript guide, the Library of Congress years ago. He did a wonderful book on religion and the American Revolution. He said there's no way you would have had the American Revolution without the support of

America's preachers. From the pulpit, they made the case for American independence. Of course, that was the opposite of the French Revolution, as you know. And you said that was James Hudson? James Hudson. H-U-T-S-O-N. That's right.

He's retired now, I think, but Chief of the Manuscript Division, he knows those documents as well as anybody. Yeah. I mean, it really is, again, you can't say it enough, mainly because it has been forgotten, and it falls to such as you and I to remind people

that this was who we were, and we really cannot be America in the genuine sense without having some restoration of that reliance on the faith of the Bible. And again, I think that that's, I think that is happening because I think things have gone so far in the other direction. But to get back to Benjamin Rush, I know a little bit at the end of his life, he sort of brokered rapprochement between John Adams and,

Thomas Jefferson. Do you cover that at all? Can you talk about that? We don't get into the film because it's kind of beyond where what our focus was. We went up to the Constitutional Convention and then the Yellow Fever Outbreak. But you're absolutely right. And I think this goes back again to Benjamin Rush's kind of his Christian heart, reconciliation, being a peacemaker.

And Adams, he and Adams had kind of drifted apart. Adams was one of his best friends, actually, John Adams. They met in a stage coach on the way. way to Philadelphia. Didn't exactly hit it off initially, but then became very good friends. And Adams, and he had a great correspondence themselves, and he knew about the rift, and he wanted to do something to bring these men together. He just had this sense that you can't let your life slip away without a reconciliation, given how much they had jointly invested in this American project. It's a wonderful part of the story, actually. Well, as I remember it, he had an extraordinary

dream about the two of them. He really believed it was God speaking to him in the dream. And I don't remember the details of it. I'll have to look it up. But it's just one of those extraordinary stories. And of course, the dream was really, I think he thought, a prophetic dream saying that they need to get back together as friends because they had been bitterly estranged, really. And then they did. And for the last years of their lives, was copious correspondence between Adams and Jefferson. Yes. It's a very tender story, isn't it? These men who become really political enemies in some ways,

representing different sides of the political story, the whole debate about federalism, the role of the federal government, the role of the states, they become these political enemies. But there was a real reconciliation and a mutual admiration and affection before the end. And Benjamin Rush had a hand in that. Talk if you would a bit about that rift because I think most of us, when we think of the founders, we think that they're all on the same team, which they are mainly.

But I know that Benjamin Rush, I guess he was very concerned. I mean, I think that the purists in the best sense were concerned that we would get away from our radical roots of freedom and that we would become a country just like any other country. They were worried about that. They were worried about the, they were worried about the idea of a standing army. And so they opposed George Washington. Washington had a sense, and I don't know, we're going to need a standing army. We cannot win with a militia. We need an army. And then he understood we need a strong federal government. And a lot of the good guys didn't quite get that. They were very worried about that. Yes. Yes. They were deeply concerned about the tendency of power to

concentrate itself, particularly at the national federal level. And of course, this explains the checks and balances. Everybody agreed you need checks and balances to restrain the worst impulses of the chief executive or of a Congress, a legislature, or the courts. This mutual separation of powers and checks them. Everybody agreed on that. But one of the real debates was, all right, how much power is the federal government going to have over the states at the end of the day, right? That was a huge dividing line. And then, of course, the issue of slavery, which runs right, right at near the heart of that whole debate. How is the national government going to adjudicate the issue of slavery, which, as you know, becomes a very

difficult kind of moral compromise? Hang on a second. When we come back, we're talking to Joel de Conte, and we will talk about all of this stuff. Folks, don't go away. Folks, right now in Texas, families are reeling from this historic flooding. Food for the poor is delivering life-saving relief, but they need our help. I'm Eric Mataxis. Call 844. 8663-4-673 or text Metaxus to 51555 to send emergency supplies or visit Metaxistalk.com. Click on the banner. Metaxistalkysotocon. Thank you. Welcome back. We're talking to Joe LaCante about one of the founding fathers, Dr. Benjamin Rush. And you were just talking, Joe, about how he participated in something in the 1790s, an act of racial reconciliation.

Yeah, it's an amazing story. And I spoke with the manuscript guy over there at the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia and saw Rush's own journal about this recording the event. It happened just outside of Philadelphia. Rush had been involved in supporting the first black churches, independent, free black churches in Philadelphia. He's an active supporter of those churches. They've just raised the roof on one of those churches. They're celebrating this at a banquet.

So the various white colonists who've been supporting the black churches, they're sitting down at a long picnic table. Free African Americans are serving them dinner. And then they get up from the table. All of the white colonists get up from the table. The African Americans sit down to the table and they are served by the white colonists. colonists. Benjamin Rush is there. He records the event in his journal. This happens in 1793. My friend, I mean, this, with all due respect to our dear friends in the South, this kind of racial

reconciliation in many places was not happening in the Deep South into the 1960s. This is happening in the 1790s. Benjamin Rush is at the heart of this in Philadelphia and his Christian faith is the key factor. Treat others as you want to be treated. I mean, that really, I've never heard that. But what, I mean, when we're talking about the 18th century, it's almost unbelievable. I'm so glad that we have a record of this. Because that is, you know, ladies and gentlemen, that is, that's the Christian faith in action. And so many people forget that it was Christians who led the battle for abolition. That's, you can't get away from that. That's just a fact. But to hear about this kind of thing, this is, that is very, a particular biography rush that you would recommend?

Or I was going to say, I'm now hoping you'll write one because it sounds like you're the man. Well, no, I've pulled from a couple places, but the one Stephen Freed, I think it's F-R-I-E-D called Rush. I can't remember the subtitle. That is a wonderful source of Benjamin. Rush biography there. And, but when I read that story, having read that biography with the first time, when I read that story of Rush, I knew we have got to make a film about Benjamin Rush. And that, of course, is in the documentary film.

It's such an amazing. I think Rush, as much as any of the other founders, embody the highest ideals of the American Revolutionary, because as you know, what the revolutionaries are saying is we are putting slavery on the road to extinction. That is the moral logic of the revolution. Its days will be numbered. They don't deal with it in the way we might have liked at the Constitution of Convention. I understand that. But the whole language of freedom of equality, of human dignity, of natural rights. But I want to ask you, because as I study this period, I feel that a lot of the founders get a bad rap. In other words, it seems to me that you have a lot of

them fighting very, very strongly against slavery. And we act as though they all acquiesced or they didn't care that much. That's simply not true. It seems to me that they had a very, very bitter, bitter choice that either they could save the republic with this nightmare of slavery or the whole thing would go away. And so they made this bitter choice, but it was a horrible choice. I cannot imagine that they were thrilled about it. Yes, no, you're right. And one of the people we interviewed for the film about this, a good friend of mine, the Reverend Charles Howard, he's the chief chaplain at the University of Pennsylvania. Wonderful African-American guy, I've known him and his family for over 20 years. And he knows this history. And one of the

things that Reverend Howard said to us is, you know, people are complicated. The founders were complicated, and they were, yes, they were in a very compromised situation from the get-go, having been a colony of Great Britain, which was, of course, the great slave trading empire of the 18th century. So it is baked into the cake, this moral difficulty and ambiguity, isn't it, Eric? The issue of slavery and racism, right? It's baked to the game. Well, I mean, I'm, you know, this. very strongly against slavery because of his Christian faith. And he was a very strong Christian, John and Abigail Adams, both. But he was very clearly, both of them, he and Abigail, very clearly against slavery, not even slightly indifferent to it, very strongly against it. And I know that

there were so many, Benjamin Franklin ultimately was one of the forerunners of the abolitionist movement in America. It's interesting to me that we, we, we, we, tend always to say, or to sort of imply that all the founders were hypocrites, and that is absolutely not true. Yes, I agree, but I think there's that cultural division line between the northern states and the southern states especially, right? Patrick Henry verbally is against slavery, but he has slaves, right? He's a Virginian. So there is this dividing line. The northern states are taking measures to eliminate slavery even before you get to the constitutional convention. The southern states, not so much.

So you've got that cultural dividing line. That's part of a huge problem at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. How do you get to southern states to sign on to this great agreement, this great compact, and ask them at the same time to give up slavery? They're not going to do it. They're simply, we're not going to do it. We're going to another break here, folks. We'll be right back talking to Joe LaCante.

Okay. Folks, just try to imagine losing everything overnight, your home, your car, your loved ones. that's what's been happening in flood ravage, Texas. As you know, we on this program are partnering with Food for the Portis and emergency kits to those who need them desperately. Go to metaxistalk.com, click on the banner, metaxistalk.com or call 844-863-4673-8473, or text Metaxus to 51555. Thank you.

Take a chance. I'm the first in line. I'm still free. Take a chance on me. Welcome back talking to Joe LaCante. Joe, I want to talk to you about William Tyndale because you're writing about him right now. But before that, everybody knows that you're a filmmaker and an author. But what are the three titles you have?

You have an affiliation with Grove City College. Yes. Talk about that. Thank you, Eric. Thank you, Eric. I'm the CS Lewis Scholar for Public Life at Grove City College. I'm a presidential scholar with the new college of Florida there in Sarasota, but I'm also the director of the Rivendale Center in New York City, which is an academic center in New York, committed to defending the classical Christian inheritance of Western civilization. That's part of what we're trying to do there. Well, since I live in New York, I'm very excited about this. So where does that stand right now? Well, we're going to have our first event on August 7th coming up over here. On a, was that Tuesday or Thursday?

Coming up on Thursday, yeah, at Hepsaba House. If you know, Hepsibah House up on 75th, West 75th over there. You've got so much going on. Now let's talk about William Tyndale. For my audience, I'm familiar with Tyndale. If you don't mind, tell us a little bit about him for folks who wouldn't know who he is. Yes, William Tyndale is an. an incredibly important historical figure because he was the first person to translate into English

from the original Greek and Hebrew the entire New Testament. And he did a whole chunk of the Old Testament as well before he was executed. He gave his life to give us the English translation of the Bible, which has affected virtually all of the English Bible since. About 70% of the King James Version is William 10. It is a little bit of Tindale. That can't be said enough. If you put Tindale next to the King James, you realize that the scholars who worked on the King James translation were leaning so heavily on Tindale that it's really just an updated version of Tindale's version. Yes, he had an amazing courage, almost a reckless courage, because you remember 500 years ago now, when he started that translation of the New Testament in 1525. He has to flee England because you're not allowed to produce

an unauthorized translation of the Bible out of the Latin because the Catholic Church controls the situation. He has to flee England. It's still Catholic. And he flees to Germany. He probably meets Martin Luther, but that's where he finds safe haven. And that's where he will complete his translation of the New Testament. It appears for the first time in print in 1526 and smuggled, it back into England, and then the rest is history, as we say. Well, so was he executed by King Henry the 8th? Yes. Henry the 8th would have been the one ultimately, you could argue, politically responsible, but it's Thomas Moore, I'm sad to say, who is a great, greatly revered by my Catholic friends for resisting Henry when Henry wants to break from the Catholic

church. But before Henry breaks, he's got Thomas Moore as the chief bloodhound trying to track down Tyndale, and they finally catch up with him. He's betrayed by a friend. He is strangled and burned at the stake. And the person most responsible is Thomas Moore. He despised Tyndale. And he almost became unhinged, emotionally unhinged, because he could see what Tyndale is doing in the accessibility, the democratization of the word of God, getting it in the... hands of ordinary people. That was a radical thing in the 16th century in Europe, I'm sad to say. Yeah, well, I mean, it's absolutely, this history is fascinating because I think most of us would think of Thomas Moore, of course, as a hero of Christian faith. But, you know, ladies and gentlemen,

in case you didn't know, we are fallen creatures. And, you know, whenever I talk about Martin Luther, You know, people say, well, what about this and what about that? It's like, yes, there were real flaws in some of these folks. But Tyndale, you said you're writing an article about Tyndale for this 500th anniversary of the beginning of his translation. Yes, it should be appearing in the new Criterion magazine, I think here in their September issue. So the editors are sitting on it right now. We'll wait to see what I hear from. but they've commissioned the peace. So I'm hopeful it'll be out by September. Stay tuned for that on Tyndale, marking the moment.

Well, I love Roger Kimball, and I'm just so thrilled that they exist, the new criterion, and that they're asking for stuff like this. So what is the 500th anniversary exactly of what? Well, you could pin it two ways here, Eric. 500 years ago, really, this summer, Tyndale is beginning to write, to translate, I should say, the New Testament into English from the original Greek for the first time.

He's doing that in the summer of 1525, but he can't stay in England and do it. There are too many people who are going to stop him, and he flees to Germany. And by the early part of 1526, he's pretty far along on that translation. And by, I think, the summer of 1526, it's out. It's published. I assume that he was inspired by Martin Luther. Yes, absolutely right. Luther was certainly one of his models. Luther's translation, as you know better than most, his translation of the Bible into German

was also a radical revolutionary event, helped to transform the culture of Germany, right? That was a template. That's right. He was a great model for Tyndale, no question. Yeah, and that was only 1521. So it's amazing how, I think, think a lot of us forget that, you know, information could travel fairly quickly. At least it did travel and that, you know, even Henry VIII was corresponding with Martin Luther, hated Luther. The whole thing is fascinating that this, that you have people in England and people in Wittenberg speaking with each other. And obviously, but what, we've just got 30 or 40 seconds, but what led Tyndale to this point?

It's interesting that in 1525 he would do this. Tindale's life was transformed when he read the scriptures for himself for the first time and the gospel of Jesus is what transformed him. There's no question about it. And he wanted to make sure people could have the word of God in their hands so that they could find Jesus because he felt profoundly that Christ was unknown

in so much of his native England. Yeah. Wow. That was his heart. Just enjoy having you with us. Joe LaCante, thanks for being my guest, and congrats on all you've got going on. Very exciting. Thank you so much for great to be with you, as always. Folks, as you know, this is a real crisis.

Over 129 are confirmed dead. Dozens still missing in Texas. Eric Metaxis here, urging you to help us get emergency supplies to flood victims. Partner with us and Food for the Poor Call 844. or text metaxis to 51555 or click on the banner at metaxis talk.com. Metaxistalkis talk.com. Thank you. Hey there, folks. We're launching a segment here. Actually, we've done it in the past, but we haven't done it enough. And I want to do it regularly. The segment is called English is a first language. If English is your first language, I would argue that you're responsible for speaking English reasonably correctly. And this. segment is designed to help you do just that. It's not designed to shame you. We're not going to lay any shame on you. We just want to help you to speak English correctly and have fun to think

about what you're saying, not to just kind of go with the flow, but actually to think like, I want to speak correctly. And it can be fun. Trust me. Okay. So a few that I've shared in the past, which I should touch on, these are really like my, my, my, my, my, my, bug bears for me, that they drive me crazy. When people misuse the word, home and hone, right? Hone is like a wet stone. If you're sharpening a knife, you hone the blade down. You hone it down.

So if you home in on a target, you're going home. A homing pigeon goes home. A bomb homes in on the target. Home in. hone in is wrong. If anyone ever says hone in, it's wrong. So you feel free to cringe. You don't have to correct them, but don't you say hone in.

Hone in is always wrong. It's home in. We hone an argument down. Like you hone a blade down to sharpen it, to sharpen the argument. I hone it down. You hone down your argument. That's number one. Number two, another word, it's not.

a word. When people say irregardless, that is not a word. The word is regardless. If you say irregardless, that's just bad. Please don't do that. Please. I'm just, I'm asking you nicely, please don't say irregardless. It's just horrible. It's a non-word. The word is regardless. And if you don't want to say regardless, don't. But definitely don't say irregardless. Finally, and this is something I could go on for days about this, people constantly, this is a new thing. I've noticed this in the last few years, constantly misuse the word literally. Literally means literally. In other words, I say, it blew my mind, literally.

Okay, if you say it blew your mind literally, it means that your mind was literally exploded. Obviously, that you can't say that. Right. So if you say the, you know, the wind literally tore the trees out of the ground, it means the trees actually genuinely, literally were torn out of the ground. You're not speaking metaphorically or hyperbolicly. If you're saying, you know, the wind practically tore the trees out of the ground, but not literally. And it literally means it actually has to happen, literally has to do with the words themselves have meaning. So literally, always has to mean the exact thing. Now I wish I had better examples. We're going to come back to

this in a future segment of English as a first language. In closing, let me say, people often say we waited with bated breath. This is a spelling issue, but baited is not B-A-I-T-E-D, baited breath. It's we waited with bated breath, B-A-T-E-D. A baited. To abate is to, you know, to hold, like with held breath. I held my breath. So we waited with bated breath. A bated breath means I held my breath. So it's just nice to know what words actually mean.

I think it helps. So bated breath. And then finally, I'll say the phrase, to wreck havoc is the right word. I'm sorry, to wreck havoc is often said it's wrong. The real phrase is to wreak havoc, wreak havoc, not wreck havoc. I'm afraid we're out of time. I hope these hints and tips have been helpful.

God bless you.