The Eric Metaxas Show - Kelvin Cochran

Episode Date: October 19, 2021

Kelvin Cochran tells the story in his new book, "Facing the Fire," of his dismissal as chief of the Atlanta Fire Department because of his religious beliefs.

Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey, folks, welcome. My calendar says it's Monday. What does my calendar know? Albin, do you have Monday? I have the day before the launch of your brand new book. That's what I have on my calendar. Your enthusiasm warms my heart because launching a book, I mean, literally tomorrow,

or actually, no, midnight tonight. Yes. Midnight tonight, you can no longer pre-order is atheism dead. So I've been begging people to pre-order. Today is crazy. The next two weeks, let me share where I am because I'm obviously in some kind of a hotel room, right? People can see me. Yeah.

Well, if you're watching a video. But I can't even remember my nephew, Nick, named after. my dad, Nicholas Metaxus, who's still in the hospital, and I cover your prayers for my dad. He's trying to beat this infection, and he's 94. So he couldn't come to the wedding yesterday. That was tough. But Suzanne and Ann Rose and I drove to Connecticut so that on Saturday I could visit my dad in the hospital.

And I had to get a special rapid COVID test for that because we know I'm not vaccinated. and I'm taking horse medicine. I'm eating ravenously. I can run a quarter in about 26 seconds. It's unbelievable. Horse medicine works. I'm just telling you. But we went to Connecticut.

We drove to the distant hills of Connecticut. Way past stores. This is like way past Hartford for the wedding. Glorious wedding. And I just want to say, I love my family so much. Nick and his new bride. Lauren, they are just, you know, it's a funny thing why people get choked up at weddings. When he was dancing with his mom, Gina, I just got so choked up.

And it was so beautiful to be there with the family. But when it was all over, we had to get in the car. I'm getting to a point. I apologize. We had to get in the car and drive to the Hartford Airport. I've never flown out of the Hartford Airport before, right? It's like the Hartford, I don't know, Bradley, Brainerd something airport because I had to fly to Minneapolis to fly to Wichita, Kansas, which is where I'm now. I'm in the presidential suite of a beautiful hotel.

And I'm speaking at this big banquet tonight. It's the Kansas Freedom Coalition or something. I'm forgetting now because I'm so spacey. But it was a crazy day. So we hustle to the airport, right? And you know, you put it on ways. and we get there and something doesn't seem right. The airport seems really small.

I mean, I've never been to the Hartford Airport before, but it even seems closed down. Like what's going on? I'm supposed to be flying to Wichita, Kansas, by Minneapolis. And I realized to my horror, there are rare moments in life when this kind of thing happens. I realized when you put in Hartford Airport on your ways, it pops up Brainerd-Hartford Airport.

right? I was going to the Bradley Hartford Airport. The big airport, Brainerd Hartford Airport is like there's Piper Cubs and a gas pump. So we had to then drive all the way to the other airport. It was just lunacy. Anyway, I don't know why I'm telling you this other than the fact that I'm in Wichita today tomorrow, actually tonight, this is really crazy. A private plane. There was no other way to do this. Some generous person is lending me his private plane. I have to pilot it. And I've never done that. Actually, that's not true. But I'm flying to Phoenix because Charlie Kirk is letting me guest host his program tomorrow. And there's a big turning point USA thing tomorrow. And then I go to Colorado Springs for a big Dobson event at the Broadmoor. Like, this is all this wonderful

stuff. And then the week after that, I'm in San Diego and California. So I don't get home for two weeks from today. So I'm already confused. So I'll just shut up. You said you're at a freedom conference or something. They still have freedom in Kansas? They still have it? Just a little bit. Don't get nervous. Mostly socialist. It's fine. Okay. Look, we joke around. But the fact of the matter is that freedom is under attack in America. I'm actually writing an op-ed about this right now. And so people know if they've been tuning into this program, we're doing a fundraiser for the Alliance Defending Freedom. Ladies and gentlemen, I can't begin to tell you, you know, you just wish you could just convince people if we don't fight now. This was kind of what Bonhofer was saying in his day, and it's the same

dynamic. You have a window of opportunity where you have freedom, the laws can work in your favor, but you've got to do it now, because every day the window is closing, closing, closing. And at some point, it's game over. And we're in a race. And I never dreamt that my life would become, you know, like the Bonhofer story. And I'm not comparing myself to Bonhofer and I'm not saying we're dealing with Hitler. But the dynamic is exactly the same. You have people so content and so blessed for so long that they can't imagine that this could go on very long or get worse. So they bide their time. They say maybe tomorrow, I'm begging you fight with all your might and main in every way you can. One of the ways you can fight obviously is with money. Give money to the Alliance defending freedom. Give what you can.

You go to our website, metaxis talk.com. You can go to the banner there. Kelvin Cochran's story, I hope will inspire you. We'll talk some other lawyers from ADF to the day. But this is so urgent that there's simply no way for me to overstate it. I'm just promising you that if we don't all fight with everything we have to preserve freedom and to wake people up who still do. don't realize that it's under threat or that in America, it could even be under threat in any serious measure. I hope people are waking up. I hope that the madness of listening to people like Fauci and Biden and kind of like that, they clearly don't know what they're saying. They're clearly sending out mixed information. That's not supposed to happen in a place like America. You're

supposed to really go by the science and tell people what's true. Let them make their own decisions. I mean, that's just one example of it, the transgender madness, children being forced to take, I don't even want to talk about it, it's horrifying. ADF is the last line of defense. They go to the Supreme Court, they fight. Please give to ADF at our website, Metax has talked. Alvin, what's the- Yeah, I have the phone number here. It's 855-5-4-7-533-83.

855-5-7-5-33. and you said if someone gives $2,000, you'll get an autographed copy of Is Atheism Dead? And I said, I'd also, because it's the Halloween season, I'd throw in Afraid of the Dark, which is Hamster Holmes. But we'll get the two books for 2000. Oh, and we didn't say this. Also, we've got a couple of hats, don't we? Yeah, the hats actually, over the weekend, believe it or not, we did get the, they're gone.

They're gone. The hats are gone, folks. I have your phone. But anything we can do, we should also say that anybody who gives $1,000 is welcome to visit us in the studio. Any time with as many friends as you want to bring, that's a joy for us. If you come to New York or if you never come to New York and you have a friend who's going to New York, we love to do that. If you give $1,000 to a line spending freedom, and I also throw this out there, there are tons of people who know that they could give $10,000 to an organization like this. And by the way, that is a pittance when you think about what your money does with folks like Alliance Defending.

I cannot overstate this enough. If you can give that, it would be my joy to have dinner with you and as many people or as few people as you like. You pick the venue. You do whatever you want to do. I will just show up. And it would be my joy to do that. If you give $10,000 tax deductible to Alliance Defending Freedom, again, you go to Metaxistalk.com. Alvin, you know what I should say?

I should say that in the next hour, hour two today, I'm talking to Stephen Meyer. Ladies and gentlemen, he's one of the reasons I wrote my book, is atheism dead. He is amazing. He wrote a book called The God Hypothesis, which is kind of the brainy version of my book. So if you're brainy, that's the book for you. And I got to say that I'm going to be interviewing all kinds of people this week. Tomorrow I will be guest hosting the Charlie Kirk Show in Phoenix. A lot of crazy stuff, but I just want to say in the last seconds left,

in order to get this information out to the world that atheism is effectively dead, we need you to pre-order or if you can't do it by midnight tonight and order the book, there are links at Metaxus at Eric Metaxus.com. You got to scroll down to the Baker link. scroll down and the page, and there's links for 45% off. Take advantage. This will not last more than about another week. Please take advantage.

God bless you. We'll be right back. Hey, folks. You wish you remembered names better and thought more clearly. Improve your memory with Vivalour memory support. Vivalour's founder prayed that God would show her the solution to memory loss when her mother had dementia. Divine encounters, faith and her background as a pharmacist led Susan Gibson to create Vivalour memory support. Vivalor is a premium quality, all-natural supplement with five to 20 times more nutrients than any other memory supplement.

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That's 40% off if you order three. The makers pray that God's healing presence rests on every pill. V-V-V-L-R dot com. Check it out. Hey there, folks. I have a privilege of speaking with somebody I think of as a friend, Kelvin Cochran. You've heard him on this program before.

listening for a while. Since we're doing a fundraiser with the Alliance defending freedom, it's appropriate that Kelvin Cochran would come out with this book now because he has been the victim of what has happened in America where

elites don't have any idea of what religious liberty is. They've been ham-handed in overreaching and in squashing people's religious liberty. And At the top of that list is Kelvin Cochran, who is a hero.

The new book he has written is called Facing the Fire, the Faith that brought America's Fire Chief, that's him, through the flames of persecution. Kelvin Cochran, welcome the program. Thank you, Eric. It's good to see you, my friend. It's great to see you. You're an encouragement to me.

For my audience, tell the story briefly of what happened to you, briefly because I want to get to what the rest of the book says. But you've been through the fire and the folks in Atlanta were not good to you. You were the fire chief in all of Atlanta. Yes. Yes, I was the fire chief in the city of Atlanta and, of course, serving my profession honorably and faithfully. And while living out my faith at the same time at my church, Elizabeth Baptist Church, Eric, I wrote a book for a Christian men Bible study that dealt with men who struggled with condemnation and double-mindedness. And in the book, who told you that you were naked, I was addressing sexual sin because many Christian men still struggle with sexual sin. I used the book of Genesis to talk about God's view of sexuality, simple phrases like he created.

their male and female, and a man should leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and two become one flesh. And God created them to procreate because he wanted a big family of kids. Those few paragraphs cost me, my childhood dream come true, 34-year fire service career, when an Atlanta City Council member complained to the mayor about what I wrote about biblical marriage and sexuality. The mayor suspended me for 30 days to see if I had discriminated against anyone from the LGBT community based on my beliefs. The investigation exonerated me, however, I was terminated anyway. Okay. So, forgive me, but since we're doing a fundraiser with the Alliance Defending Freedom, I just want to say to my friends listening, folks,

this is real. This happened a few years ago. It's happening now. It is insane. There's nothing debatable. This is lunacy. And if we don't fight it, it is on us. So I want to tell you, before I continue this conversation, please go to my website, metaxis talk.com, give generously to the alliance defending freedom. We need your help. America needs your help. This is something you can do right now. So Kelvin Cochran, the new book is called Facing the Fire, the faith that brought America's fire chief through the flames of persecution. Talk about that. you raised in the faith? Did you grow up in the Atlanta area? No. I grew up in Shreveport, Louisiana, Eric, in early 1960s. I was one of those American kids that at five years old, there was a fire

across the alley that we lived in in Shreveport, Louisiana, one Sunday after church. The Shreveport firefighters showed up, and when I watched those firefighters that day, Eric, I was smitten. And I looked at my mom and my brothers and sisters and said, I want to be a firefighter when I grow up. And we were taught as kids that in our country, if you believe in and have faith in God, go to school and get a good education, that if we respected grownups and treated other people like we wanted to be treated, that all of our dreams would come true. and that's the faith that was foundational to my whole life's dreams. And God used those truths to make all of my dreams come true. That was back in the days before we all realized that white supremacy makes it impossible for somebody like you to accomplish anything.

Just how to get that in parenthetically. So somehow you, because you believed in God, because you believed in the American dream, your dream came true. And I just want to say, you know, when I found out you were the fire chief of all of Atlanta, I mean, this is a huge city. You were commended by the president of the United States.

Who was it at the time? I can't remember. President Barack Obama. Not ringing any bells. Was he president? So you were commended by him. So you were at the top of your game in every way. And then you dare to write something that you weren't

even dreaming of putting this in anybody's face. This was a private thing you did to share your faith, really to share your gift of being able to communicate, to try to help some young men in the church. And somebody who's obviously a troublemaker decides, we're going to make an example of you. We don't like you daring to imply that heterosexuality is normative or that the Bible needs to be taken seriously. We're going to make an example of you. So they came after you. And even though you'd been in the department for, you said, 34 years? Well, a total of 34 years in the fire service as a whole, but I served the total of seven years as fire chief in the city of Atlanta. An amazing career celebrated by the President of the United States, and then some radical comes after you and decides to make your life hell.

But you had a little secret weapon called Faith in Jesus. And that's what you write about in this book, isn't it? That's exactly what I wrote about. And to be clear, Eric, the phrase America's fire chief comes from the fact that President Barack Obama appointed me to be the head of the United States Fire Administration. And that phrase comes from being the highest fire official in the United States. And so when I returned to Atlanta after serving at the United States Fire Administration, that's when I, God put it on my heart to write this book, encourage Christian men. And as a result of that, the council member complained about it. The mayor fired me. But thanks to be to God for Alliance Defending Freedom, who came alongside me and walked

me through that four-year legal journey. See, people don't realize. Lines Defending Freedom does this for free, folks. Can you imagine what this would cost? They do it for free. They need our help. And the reason I say they need our help, we are benefiting from this. If you run afoul of the thought police, of the Marxist maniacs, you have the Alliance Defending Freedom to turn to. And they're not going to say how much money is in your pocket. They're going to say that case is worthy. We'll find the money.

Well, the way they find the money is they come to folks like me on this program and say, please ask your audience, since they understand this, to give generously. So I'm asking you, folks, give generously. Many of you can give a lot of money. Folks, you're not losing a penny of this. You're paying this forward. This is an investment in America. I promise you, you can't do better than giving to the lines defending freedom.

I don't just say this. I mean it. I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. What do we find in the book facing the fire? Because I know there was a previous book. What is in this book? So, you know, Eric, how some people say when they have, a near-death experience, their life flashed before their eyes. Well, when I was terminated,

my life flashed before my eyes. Faced in the fire is a walk of faith for how God prepared me for the day that I was fired throughout the course of my entire life. I talk about the difficulties of being raised by a single mom and who our dad abandoned us when we were all little kids and growing up on welfare and food stamps and the faith of my mother that brought us through that period. I talk about the fires that I had experienced as one of the first African Americans in Shreveport on the fire department in Shrethport. I was fighting literal fires and I was fighting the fires of racism. God was with me and delivered me through those fires. I talk about the transparency of my terrible 20s when I got married, but I was not the husband and father that God had created me to be in.

I brought a lot of difficulty on myself and my family. God delivered me through those fires. And so the fires, Eric, that I had fought throughout my life and seeing the hand of God delivering me through those fires, prepared me for the big mega fire that I experienced when I was terminated. So it's a story and a testimony of the faithfulness of God. through all of those areas. The hope is that other believers will see themselves in my story and know that when the day comes, for them to face the fire that God will be with them and he will deliver them through the fire. It's interesting because the Lord doesn't promise us a rose garden.

He says, in this world you'll have trouble, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. We need to live that. You have lived it. and by the grace of God, you've written about it, and we can read about it, because we need to have this kind of a faith. I always say this is not extra credit Christianity. This is what the Lord has for every one of us, and he rejoices when we step into this. And we have a secret joy when we walk with him the way you have done.

So we're going to be right back. I'm talking to Kelvin, Cochran, Facing the Fire is the book. Don't go away. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief facts. that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start,

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Kelvin, have you ever thought about the fact that you're named Kelvin? Many people think of temperatures. Yes, I think that one of those divine indications that God probably wanted me to be a firefighter in the first place before the foundation of the world as the Bible says. Amen. And aren't you glad your parents didn't name you Celsius or centigrade or fan Calvin is the one I would go with. I'm just telling you. Now, so in the book you talk about your faith, what I did not know, and I'm not kidding, until just now, is that the way the Alliance Defending Freedom walked with you through the hell of this experience made you decide you want to become a part of the

alliance defending freedom. I didn't realize that. I was just going to talk to you today and we're doing this fundraiser with them trying to get people excited. But you are now a part of the Alliance Defending Freedom, which I honestly did not know until seconds ago. Yes, about three months ago, I was appointed to senior fellow and vice president for Alliance Defending Freedom. It's just another addition to the chapter of God's story in this whole saga of how I was a client and then I was a member of the board of directors and now I'm on the executive team of Alliance Defending Freedom.

And one of the joys of this appointment, Eric, is one of my primary responsibility. is to develop a national deployment strategy to respond on behalf of any Christian who is publicly attacked for living out their faith. And so if you can imagine a coordinated effort from allies of alliance defending freedom, the body of Christ, that every time a school teacher, a homeschool mom, a firefighter, a police officer, or whoever is attacked for living out their faith, we're going to have an organized coordinated response. so that they'll know, as Toby Max's song, say, help is on the way. And we'll do that every single time a believer is attacked. You know, I was talking our friend Mike Lindell, who has been through all kinds of stuff like this. And he was putting together, you know, we talk about a defense fund. He was putting together an offense fund.

He said, we need to be on the offense. And it sounds like that's what you're talking about with the lines defending freedom. I mean, again, I say this to my audience. There are folks out there that could write gigantic checks. Folks, do you understand if folks like Kelvin Cochran and others at the Alliance Spending Freedom had the funds, they could do great things? Instead of putting out fires, no pun intended, it's not really even a pun. But instead of putting out fires, they could work on, you know, fireproofing homes, so to speak.

They could work on creating a world where these things are not happening. or there are happening less, or people will think twice before foolishly trying to humiliate and single out someone for his Christian faith. So I didn't realize that, Kelvin, and I'm glad I saw that on the break, because I want people to have hope. And I want people to think, oh, it's not just like we're fighting this end times thing and it's hopeless. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe God would have us have a new birth of freedom to quote Abraham

Lincoln, who I think was speaking prophetically, that we haven't seen the beginning of what is possible in terms of freedom, that people should be able to live in this country with a kind of freedom that we haven't been able to live under because these things take time. We still are always fighting these battles, but that when you have people who've lived through it, like Kelvin Cochran, they understand what's necessary, what needs to be done. All that is necessary is money. That's the one thing they can't pull out of a hat. They need folks like you who believe in what we're talking about here to write a check, tax deductible. I simply can't think of a greater thing. So your faith, Kelvin, is at the very heart of why you got into trouble, because

you're writing about a biblical worldview, but it's what got you through the trouble. Every time I see you, there's a smile on your face. You know what's what. You have. that secret joy. Yes, you know, and again, Eric, it's my mama taught me to be this way. But when I became a grown man, it was up to me to apply these spiritual disciplines in my life throughout my life. And God was faithful. You know, the five things I've learned from what I've gone through is God always prepares

his sons and daughters to endure sufferings or persecution. He always does. the second thing I've learned is and it's the most difficult there are worldly consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for faith but the third thing is the shouting thing there are kingdom consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ and the kingdom consequences are always greater than the worldly consequences and I'll put a pin right there so that the readers can get the number four and number five when they read facing the fire Well, you know, it's interesting. I think a lot of times most of us, it's just in our general nature is we want to avoid trouble. We want to avoid suffering. That's perfectly normal. But it can also be harmful. We have to say, Lord, you will be done. And if the Lord leads us into something difficult, we don't say, oh, great, I love suffering. But if we walk through it with him, it's completely different. And you know that. To some extent, I know it. We were canceled from YouTube. The whole show wiped out. and people thought, oh, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to praise God, and I'm going to ask him what he wants me to do next because he doesn't miss anything. He knew what was going to happen to you. He created you for that difficulty. He created me for this difficulty. And I think if we're trying to avoid difficulty, we are missing life. It really is an amazing, amazing thing. So I'm just so grateful for you writing the book. I see it's published by Salem publishers. That's also, my publisher, and they are just tremendous. But we need this today. Believers are going through

this stuff more than ever. You know it, and I know it. We're going through it in all kinds of different ways. I just want to say, God bless you for writing what you wrote. We're out of time. Kelvin Cochran, my friend, congratulations on the book. Folks, it's facing the future. Hey, folks, Eric Metaxis here. Joe Biden and the Democrats have laid out the most socialist agenda our country has ever seen. Instead of following President Trump's blueprint that had the economy booming, the Dems are going to raise taxes, increased regulations, and skyrocket an already outrageous national debt. If your retirement is in traditional investments, it is in jeopardy. Americans should be diversifying their investments with gold and precious metals. Gold gives you control over your wealth and protects you

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I'm still free. Take a chance on me. Hey there, folks. As you know, we are desperately trying to raise funds for one of the greatest organizations in the United States. It's called the Alliance Defending Freedom. Sometimes we bring on folks from the United States defending freedom to help explain what it is that they do in case you don't already know.

I have with me Jake Warner, who's a legal counsel with the Alliance Defending Freedom. and their client, Scott Chin, guys, God bless you for coming on the program. Jake, explain to my audience what this issue is about. Everywhere we look, there are issues like this. They're crazy. And if it weren't for ADF, the government would be getting away with murder almost literally. Go ahead and explain what this case is about. Sure.

Thanks, Eric. A few months ago, the Washington Supreme Court said the state could punish a really religious organization for declining to hire someone who did not share the religious faith of the organization. The Seattle's Union Gospel mission serves the homeless in the city of Seattle, and they've done so for nearly a century. But back in 2017, a lawyer tried to apply for a position there, but he did not share the religious organization's beliefs. He didn't attend church. He didn't agree with the religious lifestyle requirements of the mission. And he even applied trying to to change the mission's religious beliefs.

Understandably, the mission went with a different candidate. But this, a lawyer turned around and sued the mission. And the case went all the way up to the Washington Supreme Court. And the Washington Supreme Court said that the mission could be punished for declining to hire this person who did not share their beliefs. And we've now asked the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in and hear this case. So, Scott, where do you come into this picture? Yeah, so, you know, Eric, we at Seattle's Union Gospel Mission, we have been serving in the greater Seattle area for 89 years, almost nine decades. It's been amazing. We love and care for and share the gospel to our homeless neighbors. You know, we do that by providing food and shelter, addiction recovery services, legal services, job placement services. It's, It's been amazing.

And so where we're at is we're faced with really no choice at all. You know, on one hand, hey, mission, you can continue operating if you change your beliefs. Well, Eric, as an organization that's all about sharing the gospel, our beliefs mean everything to us. So, you know, that's unimaginable. On the other hand, it's, okay, well, then close your doors. And when I think about the thousands of people that we've helped. go from lost to found, get off the streets, and the thousands more we can help. It really is no choice at all.

Look, I just want to be clear. I want my audience to understand. Folks, I don't have time to go into the details. Let me just be blunt. This is so despicable. This is so sick and anti-American. Do you understand if a Satanist comes in to a Christian organization helping the homeless and says, if you don't hire me, I'm going to sue you. I'm a wealthy Satanist. I'm going to make you pay.

Can you imagine that we're at a point in America when people can get away with this and that where we need the Alliance defending freedom to come in to defend a Christian organization for what? For what? What are they doing? They're wanting to operate with employees who agree with them. How would you like to have a restaurant and have to hire somebody who thinks it's okay to spit in the food? You'd say, well, no, it's my organization. I get to choose who I hire. And if they don't agree with my values, it's going to hurt what I'm doing. This is the most basic American value, this kind of freedom. And who are they targeting?

Of course, it's Christians, because Christians tend to be really nice. and they don't fight back. Folks, if you do not fight back, if you sit on the sidelines, if you remain silent, when things like this are going on, it's on you. God sees what we do and what we don't do. And I'm not trying to guilt-trip you. I'm just trying to make you understand. We have a responsibility in this.

This was not happening 20 and 30 years ago. It is happening now because we have sat on our hands. We need to get serious. We need to send messages in cases like this. and the Alliance Defending Freedom needs our help. I'm going to give you the phone number, but let me first say it's easy if you just want to go to our website metaxis talk.com. Metaxestalk.com has a banner for ADF. We want you to give generously.

I beg you, folks, give monthly if it's easier for you. Put it on a credit card. If you give $50 a month or $100 a month, that adds up to a lot over a year. They need your help because this is one case. This is one case. and we know that it should be open and shut, but it's not. They have to fight the case. And if it weren't for Scott Chen being able to go to the Alliance of Fending Freedom to do this for free,

they shut down a glorious homeless ministry that's been operating for nine decades. Scott, how did you, I mean, when you first heard this, it is kind of crazy. Doesn't just seem to go against basic common sense. Why would this person want a job with a gospel-oriented homeless, organization. And then why would this person sue you? What do you think is going on? Well, Eric, it's hard to know. But all I can say is I thank God for Alliance defending freedom. You know, when the Washington State Supreme Court said, you know, the Constitution does not protect our ability to be able to hire people who share our beliefs. We knew two things.

One, we needed to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to hear our case. And two, we needed a help. You know, we're a rescue mission. You know, we have tight budgets. And so having a partner like ADF has really been an answer to prayer. I simply don't think people understand how serious this is. That's why I wanted to have you guys on. That's why we on this program are supporting ADF.

We're in a war, folks, for freedom. The idea that these lawsuits are even happening should tell you that we're living in an absurd world, and we need to fight. If we don't fight, we're going to have a secular tidal way, destroy every vestige of faith and insanity and freedom in America. We're basically out of time. But Jake, just a final word on what you're doing at ADF. Yeah, ADF is the world's largest legal organization dedicated to protecting religious freedom.

free speech, the sanctity of life, parental rights, and marriage and family. We represent clients just like Scott all over the country. And we're asking the Supreme Court regularly to hear cases very similar to Scots. And we depend on 100% of the support of listeners just like those who view your show. Okay, I'm going to give out the phone number. I already said you can go to metaxis talk.com. Click on the banner. If you'd rather call, folks, please, we need your help.

855-5-4-7-53-8-5-5-5-7-53. 855-5-4-7-53-8-55-5-4-7-53-53. God bless you as you give. This is no joke. There are only hours left to pre-order my book. Is atheism dead? There's just hours left. In fact, you may be listening to this late and it's over.

Now you have to do it. I didn't want you to have to do it, but now you have to order the book. If you waited before midnight tonight, today's Monday the 18th. At midnight tonight, the book is officially launched. I say this. I try to communicate this effectively. There are things in this book that I have never read in another book. I didn't discover this stuff myself, but I should say I discovered it by reading other books over the years.

And there were two things that I discovered. One has to do with James Tor and the how life came out of nine. non-life, which it didn't. And then the idea of the discovery of biblical Sodom, both of these things are incontrovertible. They are staggering pieces of information pointing to the existence of God. Now, I make the argument in the book that atheism really is dead. It's not tenable anymore. It's kind of like, you know, the Japanese people that were in caves on islands in the Pacific and they discovered them in like 1963, still fighting for the emperor. And they said, no, no, no, the war's over. It's been over for 18 years. It's over. And they said, no, no, no.

In other words, if you want to be that person and you just want to keep, you know, fighting for something that it's a free country. You could do what you want. But I'm here to say, agnosticism is about as good as it gets if you want to reject God. And in the book, I describe the details on that. But I really want people who believe or have, have any monochum of belief to be armed with this information? Because one of the reasons I wrote the book is because I was stunned most of this information was not known. I will ask people, do you know about the fine-tuned universe? You know about it. And they don't know anything about it. I'm thinking, this is amazing. Somehow the secular world has so taken over, or the secular worldview,

has so taken over the culture that even people of faith have no idea that science has shifted. it. Science is pointing to the existence of God. Other things, historical facts, the story of atheists themselves like Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins and Jean-Paul Sart and Camus and whatever. When you look at these things now, it's a new day and you can no longer take pure atheism seriously. I mean, I'm just stating that, you know, you can do what you want, but I don't think it's logically tenable at all. But we need to get the information out. And as I said, because we live in a secular world. When books like this come out, the secular world tends to dismiss it or ignore it. So we really do need your help to launch it. Once it's really launched, it can stand it on

its own or it'll fall on its own. That's fine. But for right now, if you can pre-order it today, I will say this. If you go to our website, ericmetaxis.com, it's my name, ericemataxis.com. You go to the book link and you scroll down. It is 45% off. You got to scroll down. But it It's 45% off. This will not last. There's like a week left or what is it? Maybe 10 days left. This price will go away.

So if you want to take advantage of it, I'm just telling you, please go to Eric Mataxis. com. While you're there, sign up for the newsletter. I'm going to be sharing excerpts from the book, lengthy excerpts because I want you to get a taste of what is in the book. But we do need your help. We need your help on a lot of things. We need your help with ADF.

I've talked about that. ADF is just one of the greatest organizations on the planet. They're fighting for religious liberty. If you haven't given to them, this is du rigour. This is not an option. Please, if you're an American, if you care about freedom, give something. Go to our radio website, metaxis talk.com. Do what you can.

And then finally, Mike Lindell's, My Pillow, and MyStore.com, and Nutrimetics.com. We'll give you the details another time, but these are heroes. go to those websites, nutrometics.com, MyPillow.com, MyStore.com. Use the code Eric. You get a big discount. And by the way, the Bonhofer posters at MyStore.com, we're going to show you them when I'm back in there. They are so big and so beautiful. We got the rights to the photo that's on my book. We need inspiration. The quote there is about as inspiring as it gets. God bless you.