The Eric Metaxas Show - Ken Fish — Healing and Deliverance

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Eric shares insights from his research on the Founding Fathers and the American Revolution, the focus of his upcoming book releasing next Independence Day.  International speaker Ken Fish reveals how God brings freedom, healing, and spiritual breakthrough. Learn more about the upcoming Illumination 2025 event: kingdomillumination.org.

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. We'll get you from point A to point B. But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own. But if you'll wait right here in just about two minutes, the bus to point C will be coming right by. And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the airways, Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Before we get to our guest, we had a minute here.

I wanted to kind of give an update on my Revolution book. It's interesting. I was recently, I don't know if you, if you Keith or you, Chris, Heimes, ever listen to Joe Rogan. I never, ever, ever listen to Joe Rogan. Do you guys, I don't listen to any podcasts. I do. I really love a lot of the guests he has on. Well, I'm not against Joe Rogan.

I just never, I just don't listen to, to podcasts typically. But it's a big investment. One thing I don't seem to have his time because I'm working on my book about the revolution especially, right? So every spare second, you know, I'm working on the book. But the other day, our friend Seth Ward said to me, Joe Rogan interviewed Ken Burns. Now, Ken Burns, most people know he's the big PBS documentarian who did, you know, the Civil War came out in like 1991 and he did baseball and it on and on. We've lost track of his stuff. but he has done these extraordinary documentary series for PBS.

And obviously next year is the 250th anniversary of the birth of the United States of America, which is why I am one of the reasons I'm writing the book on the American Revolution. And he and his team have come out with a series on the American Revolution, which I think is coming out in November on PBS. and I thought, you know, Ken Burns is not where I am theologically or politically, but he's usually fair. And his work is usually really good. And I wanted to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast.

So I listened to most of it. I don't think I'm done with it. But it was so interesting because a lot of the stuff that I would say about America, he does say, But it was interesting. It's interesting when you really know about a subject and you hear somebody say something. He go, I don't agree with that. He said, it was very interesting.

He said that, which you hear constantly that the founders were deists. And I'm here to tell you that is absolutely not true. It is absolutely not true. but you hear it over and over and over. Now, for those folks out there who don't know what a deist is, a deist is somebody who generally believes in God, but is not a Christian. And my research, I have been astonished at the Christian faith

of most of those founders who are responsible for the revolution, the American Revolution. And I, you know, in writing my book, I don't really think that I want to get into this too much because I don't want to write a Christian version of the story of the American Revolution. But in writing the story of the American Revolution, it is unavoidably Christian. It's just unavoidable. And that's what I find so funny. You don't have to go out of your way and say, we're going to do, you know, there are people who've written books like that. I'm just interested the same with Bonhoeffer, the same with Luther, the same with Wilberforce.

I just want to write the book that tells you the story of, you know, this person or this whatever. And so if you wrote the story of Bonhofer and you kind of edit out the Christian stuff, you're not telling the real story of Bonhoeffer. Same thing with Wilberforce, same thing with Luther, you know. So it's kind of interesting that Ken Burns says that because in my research, I have been so amazed by the profound Christian faith. I mean, number one, John Adams. Oh, my gosh, he should be on Mount Rushmore. Jefferson should not be on Mount Rushmore. John Adams should be on Mount Rushmore. Benjamin Franklin should be on Mount Rushmore. These are

amazing figures. Now, Ben Franklin's faith, he was not a theologically Orthodox Christian, but John Adams was unbelievably strong in his faith. Incredible. He and Abigail, it's just, so clear. And John Hancock and Samuel Adams and on and on and on. Everywhere you turn, they're having days of fasting and prayer. In fact, I just wrote about the first Continental Congress. Some folks will remember in 1774 following the intolerable acts, the coercive act. So after the Boston Tea Party, you know, England gets really angry and they want to crush Boston.

And so they impose these draconian acts on Massachusetts, on Boston. They block Boston Harbor. It's really like a declaration of war almost. And in response, you have all of the, well, first of all, you have the Bostonians and the Massachusetts colony saying, we need to do something about this. We need to reach out to the other 12 colonies. And so they call this first continental Congress, which meets in Philadelphia in 1774,

in the fall, September into October of 1774. So I bring this up because at the beginning of it, and John Adams writes about this in letters to Abigail and in his journal, but he recounts that, I forget who it was. Maybe it was John Hancock said that they should begin with prayer. And somebody, now I'm getting the facts mixed up here, who said that they shouldn't do it. I think John Jay, who was a profound Christian, and Edward Rutledge, who was a Christian, both said,

we don't think we should have prayer. Why? Why? Because there were so many denominations, represented that they thought it's going to be way too divisive, so we need to skip this. So Sam Adams, who represents the strong Christian wing from Boston, the Puritans, stands up and says, I have no problem with hearing a prayer. I'm no religious bigot. I can hear prayer from anyone here. He's being very magnanimous because they had huge issues. I mean, you have the Anglicans who really persecuted the Quakers and who were not friendly to the dissenters, the congregationalists, the Presbyterian.

There's a lot of division. But he stands up and says, I'll hear a prayer from any man. And he appoints the Reverend Duque, I think it's pronounced, D-U-C-H-E with an accent on the E, who was an Anglican, Church of England, Anglican to pray. a prayer, which was very magnanimous. And it kind of underscores the kind of the American faith, right? In other words, that they're going to say, listen, we're not going to agree on all the details, but we have a profound faith in common. And it was because of George Whitfield that all this was possible, because Whitfield used to preach a sermon, this is all throughout the middle of the 18th century, where he would pretend to be going to heaven and talking to Father Abraham.

Abraham and saying, Father Abraham, you know, who do you have in there? Are they Catholics? No. Are they Presbyterians? No. Are they congregationalists? No. Are they, you know, and basically saying, no, just those who do the will of God, those who love God, those who are, but Woodfield had been laying down this theological foundation through the decades. Right. So that by the time you get to the 1770s, there are many people that say, well, yeah, I am a congregationalist or I'm a Presbyterian, on that, but there's something deeper. I'm not going to die on that hill. We have this kind of American faith, which is a fundamental kind of Christianity.

And so, DuCce or Duques reads one of the Psalms and some other books out of the Anglican Collect of the Day, which was whatever September 7th, I think. I think he reads Psalm 35. and then he prays an extemporaneous prayer, which you don't expect from an Anglican. And it's so moved people. People were moved. The Quakers were weeping.

The Quakers who had been persecuted by the Anglicans were weeping to hear this godly prayer. So it was just so interesting hearing Ken Burns talk about, you know, some of this stuff and going, man, this was this was deeply Christian. It's just unavoidable. You don't need to be a Christian, but you need to acknowledge. the history of it. Anyway, all right, I think that's enough for now. That's your super centennial update. We'll be right back. A major retail chain just canceled a massive order leaving My Pillo with an overstock of the classic My Pills, and this is your gain. Because for a limited time, My Pillo's offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard My Pillar for just 1798. Want more upgrade to Queen Size for only 2298 or King Size for 2498? Snag body pillows for 2998 and versatile multi-use pillows for just 998.

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Head to MyPillow.com today. call 800-978-3057 now. Don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard, my pillow for only 1798, only while supplies last. Welcome back. As I promised, my very dear friend, Ken Fish is my guest today. Ken, you're an encouragement to me, just seeing your face, hearing your voice. Thanks for coming on.

It's great to be back, Eric, and it's good to see you, too. Now, you travel incessantly. You just got back from Australia? Yeah, I was there for just about a month. month. And I visited four cities or four metropolitan regions. Let's see, we went to, we started in Melbourne, but we weren't just in Melbourne. We went to another fairly large city in the state of Victoria called Bendigo. And we were in one of the suburbs of Melbourne as well, out in the hills. Then we went over to Adelaide, which is also in the southern part of the country. And we were there

for several days. We went to Perth for a week, and then we ended in Brisbane. Was it cold in Adelaide? It was cold in both Melbourne and Adelaide. Unusually cold, actually. Now, let me get this straight. They're in the Southern Hemisphere. Yes. So they're currently having winter. Yes. So how cold was it in Adelaide? I mean, when, you know, roughly. I think one morning it was four degrees Celsius, which would be about 40 degrees. Greece. Compared to New York on a cold, blustery day, maybe that's not too bad, but the homes are not as well insulated as they are in the United States, and the Australian government has things that they do to discourage energy usage, including surtaxes and things. And as a result, many times,

whether they're hotels or homes or just, you know, buildings that we might be meeting in, a lot of times you really, you want to have a long-sleeve shirt and a sweater on, even if it's 40 or 45 degrees. I will keep that in mind in case I get whisked to the Southern Hemisphere, which I don't anticipate, but anything can happen. Anything could happen. You, well, I'm glad you're back in the Northern Hemisphere. Welcome back, by the way. We've missed you. And you, I just want to, people, I mean, I've had you on this program so many times over the years, and I know that a lot of people have been introduced to, I don't know, the fact that healing is for

today. Prophecy is for today. All that crazy stuff is for today through my conversations with you. And I have that effect on people. I don't, well, I'm really glad about that. And I want to say that you have an event coming. Give us the details that you're in October, you're going to be doing another conference. This is the third one, I guess the third annual. That's right. It's a third. It's the third. It's the third a series. This one is called Illumination, and it will be held in Brentwood, Tennessee, which is a suburb of Nashville. And the dates are October 8 to 11. We'll be at Bethel World Outreach Church. And for those who would like to sign up in advance and get a discount, the website is kingdom illumination.org.

kingdom illumination.org. Right. As you might suppose, without the kingdom on the front, that word illumination is highly sought after as a domain. I can only imagine. Yeah. You know, in the 18th century, they would often, for celebrations, they would do these things they called illuminations. Are you aware of this? I'm not.

No. Tell me about that. It really, it's, I've done, because I'm writing the book on the American Revolution, this keeps coming up that when there was a huge event, they would have illuminations. And illuminations was, I mean, you think of the technology of the late 18th century, you know, what did they have? They had candles, basically, and they had fireworks. But, but the candles, they would, would light, with candles, they would light up things that were, you know,

they would use like oiled cloth and they would do big illustrations or things and they would light it from behind with candles. And so they always called it illuminations, but it was a big thing in the 18th century. And I just find it. It's just sort of charming because, you know, we don't have that anymore. But we do have your conference. Illuminations. We also have video walls, of which there will be two.

Oh, video walls. Close enough. that's very close. Kingdomillumination.org is the website. Kingdomillumination.org is the website. And you said it's October 8th through 11th in Brentwood, Tennessee. Okay, so Ken, whenever I talk to you, I know that there are a lot of folks who listen to the program who,

you know, they don't believe miracles are for today. And part of the reason for that, let's be clear, because it's happened to me, you pray and pray and pray and nothing happens. And I think you say, well, I guess God can do anything, but it doesn't seem that he's doing what I'm asking him to do. I don't see miraculous healings. When you do see these things, it builds your faith.

But you do understand why a lot of people are disinclined to take this seriously, because in their experience, it just doesn't exist. Yeah, well, I have my third daughter. She'll be 21 in September. She was born in a very, very, I hate the word trauma. It's grossly overused, significantly and grossly overused in today's society. But she did have a very traumatic birth. They used forcips to get her out.

She had the cord wrapped three times around her neck. She was cyanotic. She had a broken collarbone. We didn't know if she was actually going to make it. and there was brain damage to her as a result of all of the complications of her birth. She'll be 21 in September, and she is still not a normal child, or nearly, well, she's an adult legally, but we have legal custody of her, but she's nearly a 21-year-old, and we won't be celebrating with alcohol when she turns 21.

So we've prayed for years for her healing, and so when people say they've prayed for a long time, and they've seen no breakthrough. I know what that feels like. But let me tell you a story about my daughter, Carissa. It's not a recent story, but it's nevertheless a miraculous story, which shows how God can intervene at any point he wants to intervene.

When she was eight years old, she was still not potty trained because of her processing problems. And I went to a church where I'd been invited to speak, and the pastor was introducing me to the crowd. And in the middle, of introducing me, he literally switched out of the introductory remarks, excuse me, switched out of the introductory remarks, pointed at me and he said, and by the way, he had a son at that age,

or at that time, who was also eight years old, who also had not potty trained, but a week before he had done so, one week before. And so he pointed at me in the middle of the introduction, and he said, Ken Fish, thus saith the Lord, as a man in prison, within two weeks, as a man in prison would count the days, the Lord will visit your daughter with the same grace with which he just visited my son, thus saith the Lord. And then he switched right back into the introduction that he was giving. So it was just this interesting ellipsis, and it was over in a few moments. So that began a timer. a person in prison count two weeks, 14 days. So we started a countdown. And there's more to it, but I'm just getting to the nub of this. Anyway, on day 13, my daughter, Carissa, was watching

television. We had a care provider. She wasn't actually watching TV. She was watching a video on the TV screen. But anyway, she got up, walked into our downstairs bathroom, pulled down her own pants, went to the toilet, wiped herself through her diaper in the trash, and asked for underwear, and she's never gone back to wearing a diaper. Now, God intervened miraculously on that one piece of the healing that she needs, and we've seen further progress on another major category, but it's been a progressive healing. And then the third area of need is her speech, which is still, I would say, quite underdeveloped. And so we walk, wait and hope, and I know the frustration that people may feel when they say they don't believe

it because they've never seen it. We're living in that tension of, on the one hand, God visited us in our own home. He knows where she lives. And on the other hand, she's still not fully healed. Well, that is so beautifully and well put. I'm very grateful to you for sharing that story, that personal story, because that kind of sums things up, doesn't it? When I think about my own faith. I think to myself, there are many things that I've prayed for that don't come to past. There are some things that are of significant concern to me now, where I'm not getting the answers from the Lord that I would want. I'm not seeing anything. And you think, what's going on? But, but I know that in the years I've been working with walking with the

Lord, I have seen miraculous things. I have seen over and over and over miraculous things. The Lord has spoken to me in visions that have come to pass. So when you have the experience of seeing God move miraculously, you were just sharing, you know, most people think, what? That's not happening in my Presbyterian church or whatever it is, that a pastor could hear prophetically from God, declare it. Yeah.

I mean, most people listening to this program, they don't go to churches where this kind of stuff happens. The pastor declares something, and you go, what the heck was that? And then it actually happens. Ladies and gentlemen, you think Ken is making this up? He's not making this up. This happened and let it be an encouragement to you. And to me, we'll be right back talking to my friend Ken Fish.

Welcome back talking to my friend Ken Fish. Ken, I want to talk to you about anything you want to talk about, but I want to remind folks that you have a conference coming up October 8th through 11th in the Nashville area, Brentwood. It is called Illumination, and the website is kingdomillumination.org, kingdom illumination.org. Well, I'm happy to talk about anything you want to talk about, things that have been going on. You just mentioned you were in Australia for a month, but what you just shared about your sweet daughter, Carissa, whom I've had the privilege to meet, she and you and your wife, Beth, you know, you struggle.

But what you just shared, I think really this has been my challenge. There's an example. I wrote a book, of course, you know about called Miracles. And in that book, there is the story of a friend who, has been paralyzed for many years. But when she was first paralyzed, there was an outrageous miracle of God that prevented her from dying. And the miracle was really a miracle. It's not like, well, maybe it was a miracle. No, no, no, no. This was an absolute miracle of God that prevented her from dying. So the Lord miraculously saved her life.

but has not prevented her all these years from being seriously paralyzed. And so I think this is the conundrum and that we do live in this tension. And I think it's appropriate for us to talk about it because I think there are a lot of people that have a very sloppy view about miracles. Like, oh, God answers every prayer. God answers it. Like, you know, well, it's not so simple, folks. This doesn't mean that God doesn't answer prayer. But saying that he answers every prayer or you demand the healing.

and like he said it in his word and that's that, that's really no different than saying, well, God doesn't heal today. It's a little bit more complicated. And I think we have to have the humility to try to live with the mystery and with the complexity, which is not easy. But I think it's sometimes simply what God requires of us. You know, there's a term that was popular in the Middle Ages and coming into the Enlightenment, deus ex machina, which. means God from a machine. I think there is often a tendency among humans of all stripes. I mean, it doesn't matter what color you are, doesn't matter what language you speak, doesn't matter what

continent you live on, that you want to turn God into some kind of a divine slot machine or some sort of a divine vending machine. You know, you put the coin in, do people use coins anymore? You approach with your Apple pay or your Samsung pay, and you, you know, you tap it on the pad, machine and you know you get whatever it is that you wanted to buy a package of cookies or a snickers bar and it comes out. God doesn't work that way. God's relational. And with that, there are certain things that define relationships. If you violate the terms of a relationship, usually those relationships break down. Anyone who's ever had a friendship that's gone sideways or a marriage that's broken down, maybe even ended in a divorce, you know how that can

occur and you can think about the steps of breakdown. I think many times with respect to prayer, not in every case, because we could break this into a lengthy teaching, actually, but in many cases, you know, God has preconditions to answer our prayers. And sometimes we don't even know what they are, and that's because we're not that familiar with his word. So that might be a reason we don't get our prayers answered. Other times, we have damage in our lives. And damage can come through things that we ourselves have done to ourselves. It's self-inflicted damage. We call the word sin theologically, but a lot of people react viscerally against that term. So I'm really trying not to use it, but that is what I'm describing when I talk about self-inflicted damage. But you know,

there's other times people sin against us. They wrong us. Maybe we've been the victims of verbal abuse or physical violence. Maybe in the home, maybe we got mugged on the street. We could go on and on. Sexual violence would be another example of this or sexual assault. So any of these kinds of things, and there would be others beyond what I've named, any of these kinds of things create damage to us as well. Now, it's not self-inflicted damage, but it's still damage.

and if that damage isn't resolved, and we generally do that through a combination of forgiveness prayer, inner healing prayer, sometimes deliverance from evil spirits, but if that isn't cleared, then the answer that we're seeking, it might not actually occur. And many times people say, well, God can do anything. He's sovereign. Why doesn't he just do it? Well, that's the same kind of logic that says, if God, wants to convert the heathen, he will do so himself, which was something stated directly to Adoniram Judson, who was a great missionary in Burma in the 1800s. He was candidating to be a missionary and he was stood down by one of the elders in his church with that exact statement. Well, God

generally doesn't convert the heathen, as we used to call them, the unsaved, on his own. He uses human agents. Why doesn't he just do it on his own? I don't have an answer. to that because he chooses not to. He wants partners. He wants people who will co-labor with him, follow his word, obey him, and go to other nations to proclaim the gospel there. Or increasingly in America to proclaim the gospel among the unsaved who live among us, including the many who maybe formerly were Christian, who have turned away from the Lord and walked away from the faith. So God needs partners. And so when we think about people who aren't getting their prayers answered. I think it's, I think it's more, I don't want to say complex, because that makes it

sound like it's difficult, but I think it's more nuanced than just a simple, I prayed, God didn't answer, so now I'm angry with God. Ken Fish and I will be back in a moment. Stay tuned. I'm talking to Ken Fish, my friend, Ken Fish. Can you have such a simple name. It's not like people can misspell Fish. Thank you. Thank you very much for having a simple name, Ken Fish. Now, you were going to share something and I think I cut you off or we were just going to you were going to talk about something and I don't remember what it was. You will. So last year, our conference had a different name to it, and that was Ignition. And one of the speakers last year was on the platform. And he's known for his Signs and Wonders ministry, and he also is quite prophetic.

He got up on the platform. And I don't remember if it was at the end of his message or the beginning. But what I do remember is my wife and I were sitting in the front row. And our granddaughter had been born just shortly before. and like my own daughter, Carissa, our granddaughter had had a distressed birth, and she went into the, I can't remember what they call it, but hypothermic treatment for children that have distress in birth. This is kind of standard fair stuff nowadays. They cool the body down to 94 degrees, and they hold them there on a cool pad.

they give them medication to comfort them. Anyway, she had this spot of brain damage, and it was confirmed with an MRI. And this speaker, he didn't know anything about any of this at all, but he got up on the platform, and he said, there's somebody here, and you either have a child or a grandchild, and there's brain damage right here, and he put his hand here above his right ear, and that's exactly where our granddaughter's brain damage was. And again, we have an MRI confirming it.

And he said, I'm going to pray. I believe this baby is going to be okay. Well, no one in the room responded. So I turned to Beth. And I said, he's talking about us. And so we stood up. We were only a couple steps from the stage because we were in the front row. And he prayed over us.

And he prayed over our granddaughter, her name's Sala. And that was that. Well, just about six weeks ago, Sala went in for an overall neurologically evaluation motor skills. And there was some concern, you know, what this would result in. And that zone of the brain controls motor control, speech, all of those kinds of things. And her report came back. She is at the high end of normal. Now, did she even need that prayer? I don't know, because she was, she was a baby and she's in the developmental process. But it was very encouraging to us that we had received this word of knowledge that,

he had given about this condition. It was the exact part of the brain. He didn't have the name of the child, but no one else in the room responded. And the last medical assessment she's had is that she is at the high end of normal functioning. And we will have a new MRI on her in a matter of a few weeks, certainly by the time illumination comes. I expect to see, but don't yet know for sure, that they will find no brain damage there. So we see, even at this conference that we're going to be hosting, we see very powerful prophetic words. I could tell you a number of words that people received last year that have come to pass. Some of them deal with healing. Some of them deal with family situations that needed resolution. Some of them dealt with directions that people were going to go,

whether in ministry or professionally, whatever it is. So there were a number of prophetic words that were given. There were a number of. of dramatic and miraculous healings, including one person who'd had a very long-term sciatic condition and could hardly walk and was instantaneously healed without anyone even laying hands on them. They were just called out and boom, they got healed. So we try to create a context at our conferences where the Lord can move as he will, and we have speakers who are attuned to him in order that these kinds of things can go on. Well, you know, this brings up a standard question.

People often say, like, well, I don't need to go to church. I can just pray wherever I am. Or I can talk to God in the woods. I don't need to go to church. Similarly, I think people could say, like, well, why do I need to go to a conference? Why can't God heal me now? I pray, whatever. And that's a legitimate question, or at least it's legitimate in the sense that I want to ask it of you.

What is it, you suppose? And this is not to gin up your conference. This is just the reality of it. Why is it when you came to his vineyard here in Bethel, Connecticut, stuff happens? What do you suppose that is, Ken? I mean, is it, do you think it's because God has a particular anointing on your life and when you go places and you bring people who are similarly anointed? Because you brought a number of team members that something happens there,

that ordinarily wouldn't happen? What do you suppose? Well, it may be something of the ministry I've been given, and so, you know, the Lord provides gifting and anointing commensurate to the ministry. By the way, there are other gifts and things that could be given to people who have different types of ministries from what I function in. But these are the kinds of gifts that I routinely am around and function in. But I think there's another factor in play, and it's often forgotten. In the book of Hebrews, it says, let us not forsake the gathering of ourselves together.

Now, that book was written in the first century. So already in the first century, in the earliest years after Jesus's life, death, and resurrection, people were apparently abandoning going to church. And since it's called the book of Hebrews, presumably they were Jewish Christians. But anyway, the writer to the Hebrews, we don't know who it was. I mean, there's a lot of speculation. but anyway, this writer said, let us not forsake the gathering of ourselves together.

I think many times Christians say, I don't need to go to church. Well, actually, you do need to go to church because if you don't go to church, you're actually disobeying God. And here's what I know happens. When you are gathered together in the assemblage of the saints

and there is a faith environment, now let me be clear here, I know there are many churches that don't have much faith. They're dry, not much has happened in a long time. Oftentimes, the preaching is boring. Maybe the theology is defective and doesn't really even anticipate that God is a living being. And, you know, the scripture says anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and he rewards those who seek him. So people are like,

well, I'm not even sure if God's real. Sometimes the preachers are saying this, depending on what denomination they're in and where they've had their theological training. So that's not the environment I'm talking about. I'm talking about an environment where people come. They're infatuated with or fascinated with the Lord. The worship is rich. There is an environment of faith. And people expect God to do something. They may not know what does something. Yes. Well, we want to hold you over for another segment. I want to remind people you have a conference coming up in October. People can find it at kingdom illumination.org. Kingdomillumination.org.

That's in the national area, October 8 through 11th, at the Bethel World Outreach Church. Ken Fish and I will be back in a moment. Stay tuned. Welcome back talking to my friend Ken Fish. You can find him at Orbis, O-R-B-I-S ministries. So Ken, you were in Australia. Anything you want to share from your month in Australia?

Yeah, so we did. 16 series of meetings in various churches and with various ministries while we were out there. I mentioned early in the show that we were in four cities or metropolitan areas. In one of those in Perth, we had one night that instead of doing a kind of a conventional, you know, preach and now pray, we set it up more along the lines of what today are called healing rooms, where people came specifically to receive prayer. And we had 54 people who came for prayer that night. I broke the team down into six teams, and then I kind of floated among them and gave some coaching,

intervened in a few of the prayer encounters in order to accelerate what was going on. But you know, out of 54 people who came from ministry, 52 were healed. 52. Now, the other two, I can't explain what happened there. We only had 15 minutes with every person, so that's a pretty short interval of time. As you know, Eric, because you've been around me, sometimes I take considerably longer with people. But that's all we had, so that's all we gave. And out of 54 people, 52 were healed, each received 15 minutes of prayer. I think that's an astounding testimony to God's willingness and graciousness with respect to intervening in our worlds.

I think anybody who comes to illumination should expect that they're going to encounter God in a dramatic way as well. I can't say it'll be a healing. It might be a prophetic word. It might be some sort of something that happens. that gives them focus for their life. My own cousin came last year, and her entire life was completely redirected by what happened to her there.

And I actually was not involved in it at all other than the fact that I was leading the conference. Well, I mean, again, one of the reasons that I want to have you on the show is because I want people to be exposed to this kind of ministry and to understand folks that most of what we're getting in our churches,

is really not enough. God wants us to hear from him, to experience words of knowledge. I mean, it's something mind-blowing when someone you don't know is prophesying over you, and you know that God has to be saying this because there's no way this person could know what they're saying, you know, unless there's something. What could happen with your own pastor when I was at your church. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. When we were up at his vineyard, there was some prophecy over. Carrie Baldelli, and she, it was, it was unbelievable to me because I know her story, how she has been through hell. And the woman who was prophesying didn't know any of this stuff. And, you know, with specific, it was just, it's powerful. And I think folks that, you know, we're going to go to a, we're done here.

But I just want to say, this is, this really does deepen your faith. and so if you can find a place to, you know, to be open to this. Now, I know, Ken, there are a lot of people that they're put off by this. It's just not, you know, it makes them uncomfortable. But if you're really desperate to hear from God, if you want to know God is real, well, you know, sometimes you have to go places that you wouldn't normally go. And that's just the way it is. Well, Ken, we've got 30 seconds, anything you need to share.

Otherwise, I'm just going to give your website again. Yeah, I'm going to say this. you know all of the things that we've talked about today whether it's what happened at your church in bethel connecticut whether it happened in australia whether it happened with my granddaughter my daughter whatever any and all of this what it says very simply is that the god we see in the bible is still alive and well he still loves people he still wants to intervene in their lives in a beneficial way and you should reach out and try to connect with him amen amen and amen can fish my friend Thank you so much. Good to be back with you, Eric. Thank you.