The Eric Metaxas Show - Kevin McCullough(Encore)

Episode Date: January 11, 2021

Kevin McCullough suggests a "several-layer approach" to the Electoral College certification, and a look at where the country is headed from here. (Encore Presentation)

They say it takes a big man to admit he's wrong, but I say it takes an even bigger man to admit he's never wrong. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you that bigger man, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks, good morning. Oh, what's good about it, you say? Well, a lot of things that are fantastic about it. I have it on good authority that Jesus rose from the dead and defeated death. And so that pretty much makes everything okay, as long as I take everything. I put it at his feet. So that's really key. What happened last night, I didn't really know about it until this morning because it was unclear to me what was going on in the Capitol at midnight yesterday. From my point of view, and I said this on Twitter and some other places, the election was not legitimate. So we have a big problem because I still.

think we need to be committed to the peaceful transition of power, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say, Mr. President, to Joe Biden. So we do have a problem. I also believe that if something was fraudulent or if there was the level of malfeasance that I suspect was there, then we have an obligation to ferret it out and to show the truth and not to say, everybody shut up, let's just keep moving. So we have a, we have a very, we're at a very strange place. We're at an impasse, as it were. And so I want to process this with you today. First, we're going to talk to my dear friend Kevin McCullough. Then we're going to talk to Charlie Kirk and to Lance Woll now. And we'll try to figure out where we go from here. But I do want to say, first and foremost, for me,

my eyes are on God. And if that sounds like a cliche, you're not hearing me. Okay. Kevin McCullough, my friend, welcome to the program. You, whether you intended or not, I don't think you intended, but you're a comfort to me, my friend. When we're going through tough things like this, last night I was on this prayer call, and the people on the call seemed to assume what I didn't know for sure until this morning. They seemed to assume that whatever happened yesterday in the Capitol took the wind out of the sales of those who were faking courage. And so everything went the way it went. And I woke up this morning you hear, oh, yeah, Biden was confirmed. I still think there's evidence, as I just said,

of, you know, and I know, we've seen what we've seen. So the question is, what do you make of where we are right now and what happened yesterday? I've not had a single less asked question of me in the last 24 hours and starting in my home and emanating out across even social media. Where do we stand? What does it all mean? I think it's fairly simple. The Congress met as disruptive and as everything else as the day was. They met. They certified the electors that the states sent in. And Joe Biden is going to be sworn in as president on January the 20th. To your point, I don't think that those sets of realities should lessen one degree our intention to get to the truth of what happened on November 3rd. I think that for not just the welfare of people that supported the president and said,

I want to show him how much loyalty we have for him and appreciation for what he's done these last four years, I think for the betterment of the nation to have some sort of explanation about what happened. And as these different bits and pieces of these truths came to light, we need to really shine the spotlight, disinfect, bleach out all of these things nationwide. So I did some thinking on this, Eric, because I figured you or someone else was going to ask me eventually. And I think that there's a several layer approach that we have to take on. And we got to kind of do what Newt Gingrich did in 93 when Bush lost to Clinton. he immediately pivoted and said, we start rebuilding what got broken. And in our system specifically, what that needs to do, because I thought about where the failures

really broke down in the entirety of the process. And we lost both of these elections, the runoff and the general election, long before Labor Day. When the nation started freaking out because of pandemic, when these state legislative, did not stand up to people, activists in their states that came in and said, hey, Mr. Zuckerberg wants to fund a bunch of drop boxes, you know, at about 10 feet apart in the inner city of our largest city in our state. But for the Republicans out in the boonies, we're going to leave them a thousand miles apart. When nobody spoke up, when nobody was engaged, when nobody said, wait a minute, that doesn't seem like something that would not only be right, we got to have the legislature approve it in order for it to happen. By the time we got to the aftermath, of after the election, there was so much that had been missed by people that if we had stayed engaged ahead of time and said, wait a minute, this is going to, this is going to damage our ability to have a free and transparent election. Nobody thought about it. Nobody talked about it. Nobody got

involved. I know that I certainly didn't give it the kind of credence that I wish I had now with the platform that I have. So I think the first thing we do is we go back, all politics is local. You go back to the local level. You say, what did we, and I'm confident of this. In Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, and Arizona and Nevada, there are thousands, tens of thousands of voters who are genuinely miffed that their election was stolen. Because it wasn't just the nation's election. It was their voice. Let me ask you question.

And they are the ones that have to begin right now saying, what do we do to ferret this out and to fix it before 2022? Okay, well, this is what I'm trying to understand because there's so many different things here, and there are different layers. There are many things that Republicans and Trump voters and people on the Trump side of things did wrong. Okay. But the question is, do you nonetheless believe that the election was stolen? In other words, it's one thing to do dirty stuff ahead of time. it's another thing actually to throw away votes. And in other words, do you believe that if the facts were to come to light that Trump won the election?

I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think that he won an overwhelming victory, maybe the largest in incumbent history. Right. Okay. So the reason I asked that is because that leads to the second question. If that's the case, and I was saying this weeks ago, then there is no way that I can accept Biden as my president or as the president. So we are in a difficult spot.

Even though I don't like him or his policies, I would have accepted him if it were clear to me that he won the election. I would then have different views on what we should do now and so on and so forth. But the problem that I bump into is this idea that I'm convinced that the election was not on the up and up to the extent

that you have just said. In other words, it's dramatic. It's not like, oh, shoot, we just missed it or something. We're not talking about Nixon in 1960. We're talking about something really deep and ugly. How do we deal with that? Well, I think that's up to the individual involved. How I'm personally going to deal with it is I'm going to remember two truths. One that says that the Bible instructs me to pray for those that are in authority over me and to the best of biblical accuracy, obey them. Now, there's a second truth tied to this that is equally important. Ultimately, in America, our president is not our authority. He is our servant. Ultimately, he is an employee we have hired. He is not a king that we bow to. And ultimately, it's going to require people like

you and me and Charlie Kirk and the others that you're having on today to remind all of us that they work for us, that we are the ones that are actually the leaders. We are actually the king. We are actually the self-determinatives in this country. It is up to us to rule righteously. A lot of American pastors get this wrong. They say, you know, oh, well, you can't criticize the president because he's, he's the authority. He may have certain authorities that we've delegated to him, but it's we the people that allow him to govern by our consent. So what we have to do is like any other employee that may have been hired on very bad information, we have to hold him accountable. We have to hold his feet to the fire. And the very last thing

we can do is withdraw from the process and say, nope, I'm not going to have anything to do with it anymore, which I've seen way too much of on Twitter in the last 24 hours. Question. Can you stay for another 10 minutes or should we talk to? Yes. Okay. So we're going to talk to you. Folks, this really couldn't be more important. I just want to emphasize as a Christian, my eyes are on God. And then we have to kind of figure out what does that mean? We'll be right back. It's knowing that your door is always open and your path is free. Hey there, folks. Welcome back to the Eric Metaxos show. Hey, look, it's Kevin McCullough. Kevin, how are you? Oh, just fine. Eric, got a good night's sleep. Nothing's happening in the world today.

Well, I just want to be really clear that this tie is not navy blue. The reason that looks black is because it is. I want to say that this is a kind of a day where we really have to try to process things. Those of us who claim to be people of faith try to process things through that, lens. And of course, there's a lot of stuff to be processed yesterday. When I saw the response to what happened in the Capitol, I thought to myself, what has changed? In other words, if a bunch of Antifa infiltrated the Trump crowds and did some bad things, if some pro-Trump people did some bad things along with Antifa. How does that change whether 80 million people elected Trump or didn't elect Trump? It doesn't change anything. And the emotional reaction to have a woman like

Senator Loughler behave in that emotional way, you know, that that's what that's what sexist men have accused women of doing from the beginning of time, not thinking, being emotional. She led the way. In other words, men do it too. But it was the kind of thing that I thought to myself, listen, two wrongs don't make a right. If some people did some wrong stuff at the Capitol, that's frankly not related to the people who waited in line, old people with walkers, people like my 93-year-old dad who waited to vote. You are disrespecting my father. I guess people like Senator Loeffler don't think of that. And that's why they're bad leaders.

They did not lead. We needed leadership last night. What do you make of Mike Pence? Frankly, I'm utterly baffled by Mike Pence. I would like to think well of him, but I'm sorely challenged at this point. Well, I think that that comes naturally with the realization of the loss of an election that you cared very much about. And I think that I have known those peaks and valleys over the number of years. I've been doing this a little bit longer than you have.

So I've gone through a few more cycles where I've had to put all this out there and have the public relate to what I'm saying and then dish it back to me when it doesn't always go your way. And I get the emotions that are attached to what we're doing here. But let me speak to Mike Pence for just a second because the issue there, I believe, is one of genuine conscience of choice. as Tim Keller, love to talk about during the lead-up to the election. I believe that he honestly believes that he is constrained by the Constitution to have a very limited role. I believe that Tom Cotton believes that the Congress has a very limited role in the certification of what happens here. I don't necessarily like the way Mitch McConnell went about it, but what he said in his speech yesterday kind of hit home with me. He said, we as the Congress are not necessarily the super body that is supposed to be the Super Board of Elections overseeing all of the wrongdoings that have done that have been done throughout the states.

In a federalist viewpoint, we always believe that the government that governs best is the one that governs closest to the people. And therefore, if the people closest to the voters convinced the voters in a town, a municipality, a county, and a state to operate their elections, certain way and they did. It is not per se the responsibility of Congress to go in there and micromanage that, take the tools out and start flipping it up and down. If we start doing that, then there's not going to be a limit to what it could be done. That's why I had to give this so much thought last night. The real breakdown here is the lack of voters being involved in the process from the smallest election to the most important ones on their state level. And the one thing that's good about this process, Eric, is it has awakened 74 million people to the consequence of what

happens when you kind of put it into cruise control, thinking that it's all going to take care of itself. We have to be involved. Okay. This, and again, I confess that until I wrote my book, if you can keep it, I didn't understand these things. And that's why when I was writing the book, this is often what happens to me. I feel like God speaks to me prophetically through the process of writing a book. Sure. And I discover things that are so staggering to me in the course of writing that once the book comes out, I'd want to give it to everyone and say, I didn't know this. And we need to know this. And what you've just said underscores the idea that Franklin, incidentally, I have a wax sculpture of her founding father. This was given to me by Chris Himes, who gave you. My Statue of Liberty. The name Vodestradamus. But Franklin, when he said, if you can keep it to Mrs. Powell, was not Sydney. He said, if you can keep it, meaning that liberty, freedom is not free.

You have to do a lot. If you don't do that, you lose it. And effectively what you're saying, and I'm accepting as correct, is that we, the people, didn't do that. Now, it's still complicated, Kevin, because so you're saying that. Let me follow up on what you just responded to because you made an important point. You said freedom requires a lot of us to keep it. And I agree with that. And that's why I am so against making voting the easiest thing you can do.

Like if you can fall out of bed, we want to give you a vote. No, I want that vote to be thoughtful. I want it to be based on information that you've researched and therefore you know about the candidates. I want you to be an actual person who can prove who you are as a citizen of this country. I want the, I want all kinds of. But the left. The reason we're in such a battle right now, and the reason so many people are angry is that they see that the left,

the Democrats, have said that what you just said is racist. In other words, because they are actual racist and don't think, for example, blacks in this country are capable of filling out forms or doing what white people do. They say that that's what they believe. That's called racism on their part. That's what they believe. But in reality, Eric, and of course, any African American that hears someone say that, particularly that are of a conservative bent, will say, well, that's one of the most racist things you can, you can say. Exactly. Here's the other thing. They believe that you can't get an ID, but they have credit cards.

They used to have memberships at Blockbuster. They have Netflix memberships. They have all kinds of things all the time where they prove who they are in order to be able to do it. To get a welfare check, you have to present a social security number. To do the things that you even want to leave from government for. This is, I mean, look, and that's obviously not to imply that the urban poor are all, welfare. But your point is, and it's my point as well, this is our problem, is that we have the media in bed with the Democratic Party putting forth a genuinely racist claim and using the term racist

to tag those who disagree with them. And so that's part of the breakdown of democracy, is when you start making voting so easy that it requires nothing of us. So there's a lot here, Kevin, I don't want to get too much in those weeds. I guess my question to you is when you say that, okay, we need to get back to the local level. We need to get that's clear to me. I guess the question is right now, those of us who are looking at history and trying to figure out many of us, and I'm one of them, have said that if we lose the election to Biden legitimately or whether Biden steals it, that's the end of America as we know it because the left having gained power will not give us the ability to do the things that you're outlining. Well, let me let me give you some comfort on that

level to some degree. Some of the things that have been floated out there consistently as goals that they will hope to achieve are going to be hard for them to get to. For instance, in order to make D.C. and Puerto Rico states where they codify two more senators each into the legislature and then they have this kind of ultra majority that they believe that they that will advantage them forever. You have to have super majority votes to make that happen. In order to get rid of the electoral college, which is another goal that they want to get rid of, you have to have the equivalent of a constitutional amendment, which isn't just a super majority. Then you've got to get the majority of states to approve it. There are a number of issues that they have gone out there and

said, we want to do this, we want to do that, that they just don't have the power when you've got a 50-50 split in the Senate and a, what is it, a five-seat difference in the House or a six-seat different in the House, those bodies are so close. And we are not totally convinced that all of the Democrats are down with all of the things that the Far Left wants to do. Likewise, some of the Republicans are going to be squarely at times. So we've got to accommodate for that. What it's going to create here is not the pure stagnation that you would have had with a Republican-led Senate and a Democrat controlled House, but you will have almost the same effect within the body itself because there's going to be conservative Democrats that are not going to be able to ignore their constituents in their

conservative districts. And there's going to be some liberal Republicans. They're going to be inclined to go along with it. This is going to come down to, believe it or not, Eric, a maximized involvement on policy. Voters are going to have to understand and they're going to have to persuade their elected leaders to understand what they're actually voting for. We're going to come back another segment with our friend Kevin McCullough. The ancient Greeks said wisdom comes through suffering. Modern Greeks often say, how about some rice pudding, sir? I can joke about that because I'm Greek.

We'll be right back. Are you concerned about memory loss for yourself or a loved one? Susan Gibson's mother had dementia. Susan prayed God would show her the solution to memory loss. and after many divine encounters combining faith and her background as a pharmacist, Susan founded Vivalore and created Glory Day Brain Booster. Glory Day is a premium quality, all natural supplement with five to 20 times more nutrients than any other memory supplement. It won the award for most innovative healthcare regimen in 2020.

Visit Vivalore.com for testimonials about the life-changing improvements people have experienced. Glory Day is for those with normal memory, mild, or severe memory. loss. Don't wait until your memory slips. The pathology that leads to memory loss starts 20 years before your first memory loss symptom. Vivalore is V-I-V-O-L-O-R at Vivalore.com. Enter promo code 20 for 20% off. The makers pray that God's glory rests on every pill. Vivalor.com, V-I-V-O-L-R.com. Folks, I got some embarrassing news to share with you, but you know what? This is just the kind of a show where I don't care. I'm willing to lay my heart, you know, on the line. Here's the issue. Mike Lindell with my pillow. You may, you may notice that I have a bobble hell of him near me.

He's here to remind all of us that when you go to mypillow.com, you get whopping discounts if you use the code Eric. Now, there are a lot of people who haven't done that and we have your names here. And Chris Heim's Ann Albin pointed out to me that there's like three pages of you who's, first name is Eric. You, you're so, I mean, that's humiliating for me that even though your name is Eric, you're still not willing to use the code Eric. I mean, if you don't want to use it because it's my name, use it because it's your name. But the point is that I see who you are, and I just, I just feel humiliated by this. Please go to go to mypillar.com. It's okay, Mike. It's going to be okay. Go to mypillot.com. Use the code Eric. You're going to get whopping savings and really

high quality products. Did I, did I mention that? Thank you. Hey, folks. I'm talking to my friend, Kevin McCullough. Kevin, we have Charlie Kirk on deck, Lance Walnell, coming up. They bring a different perspective. You really are someone who understands a political process and politics in general, just magnificently. And it's important for us to understand these things.

So you just said previously that we need to get involved. politically and so on and so forth. People have been saying this for years and we haven't. And so the question becomes, do Americans have the will, do enough Americans have the will to get involved? Because it is because we really haven't gotten involved quite enough. Or maybe we got involved and, you know, the dark side of the country has just has had so much power in the media that it's been really difficult to, to get much done. You become demonized. If you're with the Tea Party or if you're for Trump, you become demonized. And so maybe people have lost heart and they're just, they just want to go

home and suck their thumbs and, you know, watch Schitt's Creek. Well, and that's one of their choices, but that's kind of where we got to this point by doing. So I would, I would discourage that. And I don't want people to misunderstand me. I'm not saying particularly for Christians that the ultimate answer is going to be found in the halls of Congress or in 1600, Pennsylvania. Avenue. But we, I want to go back to my first point. We are not the ruled. We are the people who rule. They govern by our permission. It is we who need to have a better stewardship of our responsibility in this process. And as we do, as we tell our neighbors, as we engage them, as we talk about the implications of policy, as we say, hey, you know, the governor's race in

our state matters because they could potentially impact the electoral college at some point. All of a sudden, we are expanding ourselves in a way that we might not have in recent times. And here's a big reason why I don't think we have, Eric. I think that in America, we have had a very luxurious experience with freedom to the degree that we've abused it. We've forgotten about it. We have said, there's no big deal here. It will always be this way. And the truth is, while we were debating micro discussions about, you know, stimulus checks and what size they should be and who should get them and all the rest. Over the last couple of years,

the Democrats have been planning on how to put up drop boxes, reorganize how reporting is done. Stacey Abrams has been recruiting a huge army in the state of Georgia. And you've had similar experiences in some other Democrat-controlled states. They had their eye on the long ball. They had their eye on the game as the next time when they were going to be given the ball, so to speak, on offense. and they were committed to getting it across the finish line.

We don't have that kind of determination. For a few maybe good reasons, we don't really put our ultimate faith in them. We believe in God and that he's ultimately in control. But that is lazy when it comes to public policy involvement. We are not only the subjects of a sovereign God, but we are also stewards of free will that he gives us. And when we don't exercise that will, we have a way of undermining what is good and healthy for the rest of society and the culture.

So we have to take responsibility here. We've got to roll up our sleeves. We've got to say, God, what do you have of me as I go forward? How can I be more educated? How can I communicate better with other people that are involved in these matters? What should I do? Should I join a local CWA group as one just started here in the tri-state area not long ago? What is that?

Concerned Women for America. And it's a bunch of moms that are very motivated about policy and they're concerned about whether. I don't feel called to join one of those groups. So maybe you should start the concerned men of America organization and ask people to join that. Regardless, the idea is the same. Get involved. If you don't care about it, it will get stolen from you. And we may have just seen that in these two elections.

What do you, what do you know, it's kind of funny, Kevin, I got to say like a lot of people say you're pretty dumb. And based on what you just said, they could be wrong because you've said a lot of good things just. now. Thank you. No, you said, you said such important things just now, tremendously important things. And let me ask you, we, I spoke to Larry Taunton yesterday, and by the way, people should be following him as well as you on social media. But it seems to me that there are many sincere Christians who don't see things the way we do. They don't see that there is. is a deep state involved in trying to undo the will of the people. I mean, we have to face the satanic ugliness of people in our government living off of our taxes who are working against the will of the people.

I mean, that has happened over the last four years. That is the end of democracy when you have that. And so, you know, if people want to interpret my Bonhofer book, the deep state is Adolf Hitler. These people are working within the process to undermine the process. And it seems if we were to just drift on from what happened last night or early this morning, we would be drifting into the darkest, most troubled waters in our history. We may be. And that's something that has haunted me for the better part of the last year,

as we've been having this nationalized discussion, as you've seen freedoms being taken away, as you've seen unconstitutional mandates like masks be enforced through executive order, no law passed, just a governor saying you're going to do this regardless. Eric, it doesn't come easy. And there are a lot of Christians, even in pulpits, that are leading people away from where truth is on this. The truth is the Christians walk in life involves politics. It involves parenting. It involves making good decisions in their own personal behavior. We have to apply a faith because it's either the biggest deal in our lives and touches everything or it's a complete myth and it has no importance whatsoever. But there's

no middle ground. For Tablum digesting Christians, we've got to move out of that arena and get into the hot or cold because that's the only place that we fit. All right. We're going to drag you into one more segment. Folks, this is here. Kmetak's show to Uncle Wade. Across the universe. Hey there. Hey, folks. I'm talking to Kevin McCullough. Kevin, it's so great to have you.

You really, I mean, you're a friend, but you are, you're more than a friend. You're an enemy. And you, no, I mean, you are somebody that, that, you know, like many dear friends, like John Zemirac and others, help me personally to process what's going on. And because we share a faith, we can talk about that aspect of it. as well because I don't believe that American democracy is possible without committed people of faith. And by committed people of faith, I mean just what you were saying in the previous segment, that people have to live out their faith. And so when you become a pietist and a separatist

and you just sort of go into your closet and pray, when you divorce your faith from your politics, from your civic life, you're really, you're being double-minded, you're not being biblical. And that's been the challenge because I've had many fellow Christians, some of them friends and some of them actually former friends who are so bitter about my acceptance of Donald Trump and my joy at some of his actions as a leader, some of his leadership, the bitterness, because these people have bought into an idea that I think is false. So now there's levels of that, but many, many people like me saw Trump as a Cyrus figure or a Jhaju figure, a disruptor who maybe wasn't quite of our tribe, but who nonetheless was leading in a way that American patriots have led in the past, many of whom have not had the kind of faith that you did or I did. And so it is difficult for those of us like me who think that way to accept what it would mean to hand the reins over to a Joe Biden because frankly, I don't think he has the capacity, the energy, the competence, even to lead poorly. In other words, I don't know to whom I'm actually giving the reins. Well, and there's a lot of reasons for that because for much of his life in the Senate, he was considered kind of a Democratic moderate where he did have a, you know, a position on

abortion that was pro-choice. He did have, he was usually pretty left on most social issues, but he wasn't always like a crazy spender saying, let's raise taxes and throw money out the window. The people that are in his party now are nothing like the people that were in his party when he got into it 47 years ago. and he's going to have a bit of a line to toe to meet expectations. The AOCs, the Kamala Harris's for that matter, are not going to go quietly, and they're not necessarily going to say everything's fine when he doesn't give them the most extreme possible outcome that they would like. That may or may not suit him well. I don't know.

I mean, the country may be, so let's just take one thing that he did recently. He picked Merrick Garland for his AG. choice. He could have picked a much more radical person. Merrick Garland actually wasn't even the worst Supreme Court justice that's been put forward by a Democrat by a long shot. He was seen to be as far more moderate than either Sotomayor or Kagan, who were put on the court by Obama. And so from the idea that he's going to go out and just find rabid, hard, you know, communists for all of his positions in his cabinet and so forth, he's kind of debunked that. However, He also put Dr. Susan Rice in his administration. So you've, you've kind of got a little bit of

representation from both sides of that of that aisle. Nonetheless, we are going to have to do what we had to do for eight years under Barack Obama. We're going to have to say, I don't like this. Here's why. And let people know. We're going to have to say, okay, you did okay on this one. We're going to give it a pass. But I think what we have to do is we have to call balls and strikes as they come at us. I would encourage Christians in particular, not to be vitriolic or vindictive or over the top, stick with facts, stick with what we can prove, what we can say, what we can demonstrate to be the case. We're going to be called extremist and firebomb throwers anyway. That part, I'm not, I don't care about the calling of the names.

I'm just saying for the credibility and the ethic of what we're arguing, we've got to make sure that we know truth, because I think ultimately truth is what we're called to be messengers of, regardless of the arena that we're in. Let me, uh, I want to circle back since we just have you for a couple minutes. Mike Pence, you are saying that really he didn't do wrong. It seems to me. I don't believe that it is a moral failure to disagree with the president on the role of what the electoral guy should do. I think they have different views.

Kevin, Kevin, hold on, hold on. Since we don't have a lot of time, I've got to pin you down here. If you were there yesterday, you're the vice president. Would you have done what he did? I don't know. I haven't studied as closely. A president was leaning on Rudy Giuliani very hard. Mike Pence has a different circle of advisors. And this is, Eric, this has never been done before in the modern era.

I mean, this is all new territory. But I think this is the point of leadership, though, isn't it? But I think that limited leadership is some limited use of power and power grabbing is something that I am always going to air more on the side of than grabbing power. Of course. is unproven. Of course, but what happens? I mean, let's look at Lincoln. He was a pretty good leader. I would say he's right up there. In fact, he should be on Mount Rushmore if he's not. Lincoln did some things that people criticized as utterly guilty of what conservatives like Andrew McCarthy or others would accuse Trump of wanting to do. Lincoln is a hero. Is he a hero because he did those things and won and saved the Republic?

And would Mike Pence be a hero if he had done those things and we would have moved forward in that way? I don't know. And I think that the concern about the Trump base not being able to deal with reality was not proven yesterday, but the media is using the disruption yesterday to make that narrative now a big talking point about Trump. forces going forward. I actually think that when the truth comes out, we're going to find out that the people that did penetrate the barrier were Antifa undercover, not even part of the main Trump squall that was there. But nonetheless, you got to understand we are in a world where perception has almost more validity than reality in certain circles. That's why you and I have to keep talking about the truth as much as that's, but that's the point. And let me say this. Let's say it was Trump people. I still say so what.

Facts are facts. You don't base your reality for the greatest nation in the world on what a few people did yesterday or today. You don't do that. That is a fundamental lack of leadership. Anybody who goes that way, who puts their finger in the wind like Leffler and the rest of them, that is the definition of someone who doesn't know how to lead, who is a failure. as a leader. That is the definition. And I am stunned at how the media, including the conservative media,

generally drift along with this. We'll be right back. If you want. Folks, we're coming up with Charlie Kirk. And we're going to continue dealing with the reality as we find it. I deal with it through expressive dance, but I don't do that on camera. That's how I work out with. was hoping for some of that today. That's how I work out my grief. I wear an aqua unit tard and I just do it

alone in a studio that I rent. Okay. So Kevin, let me go back to what you finished on in that last segment. Yeah, please. Because I think you made an important point, but I don't, I don't think that my point was being made clearly. I believe that we have to hold the line and call balls and strikes and say what was, was, and we've got to clarify. Clarity is more important than unity. Clarity is more important than almost every other virtue, because to be clear is to get to the substance, to get to the facts, and then to be able to establish a groundwork by which you can then communicate even further. For every instance of what Ms. Loughler did yesterday, I would point people, and I think I have it posted. If I don't yet, I will shortly after we're off the air to Twitter, the Matt Gates speech from last night's late session in the Congress, where he, he resolutely laid down the law and said, look, these people that broke in were likely not. In fact, the Washington Times has evidence from some facial recognitions experts that are saying they've identified multiple Antifa in the crowd, blah, blah, blah.

But then he went on to say, and let's talk about the reality of why we were here. We were here to support democracy. We were here to save election integrity. He lays out the entire groundwork. And then he says, and for all of these reasons, we should, we, the body that is here to vote on these electors, we should reject them. Now, he got several applause. He said, I'm so glad that my colleagues across the aisle for the first time in weeks haven't argued to defund the police. That brought about applause.

He got booed from the other side when he said, you know, these were the tactics that BLM and Antifa used all summer long. And none of you said anything about it the entire time, which is a legitimate point. He got booed from the bad guys. He got applauded by the right side. at the end of the day, it came down to sheer votes. And in the House of Representatives, where they had the power to override that electoral slate, they didn't have the votes.

And that's just the reality that we live in. But what does that mean to us, to you and me, to believers that may be listening right now? We have a different plane that we operate on. God's in control. He knows that Joe Biden is going to be president, and he's asking us to walk this valley right now, to follow him and trust him even deeper and more strongly than we did before,

and to maintain our character in the process. This is not about saving America just for saving America's sake. America is no greater than anybody else apart from God's grace. We have to be the elements of that grace as it's expressed. And if the church is stronger, America will do better. If the church is weak, America will fall away. That's just the bottom line. Well, that's right.

That's right. there's so much here, my friend. I just think that maybe the most important thing would be people would remember that if you go to mypillow.com, make sure you use the code Eric. If you can think of nothing else, if there's just one piece of information you can take away from this program, is that you need to go to mypillow.com or my store.com, use the code Eric. And pretty much everything follows from that. I think that's true.

If that's not true, let me say this. You know, Kevin, when you said God is on his throne, we have to remember if we lose everything, if I am in a concentration camp in China or North Korea, if I'm being tortured for my faith, God is still on his throne. We are commanded to rejoice in him as those being persecuted right now rejoice in him. So we have this dual reality, and it's something that we need to understand. If things don't go well, it doesn't mean we cease to worship God and cease to ask him, what do I do right now? And that's, to me, part of the magic of the story of Dieterik Bonhoeffer is that he kept asking God as things got worse and worse.

Okay, what do I do now? What do I do now? Kevin, we're out of time. My friend, God bless you. Thank you so much for being a part of an important show. Absolutely, Eric. Thanks for having it.