The Eric Metaxas Show - Killy & Canon J. John

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Canon J. John and his wife Killy are in the studio to talk about many amazing and encouraging people throughout history who've made a real difference in the world, sharing stories from J. John's book, "Heroes of the Faith."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. Back again, eh? Glutton for punishment, eh? When will you ever learn? Now, here's the host that you hate to love,

the man who was the reason your friend sponsored your last intervention, Eric Matt, Texas. Hey, folks, welcome to Friday. We have a special double-feature treat for you. I mean, I'm not kidding. One of my favorite people in the world, he has a funny name. He's Greek, and he's from England, and he's an amazing, amazing evangelist around the world. But he goes by the name Jay John.

Because Greeks sometimes, I remember in my book, Fish Out of Water, I talk about my gym teacher growing up when I was in a Greek Orthodox parochial school. The gym teacher was Lambros, Lambrakis. And the Greek people have names like this sometimes. So, Jay John, his name is like Janis Yanakos, which is like John McJohn or something like that. I think we mentioned in the interview. But so he just decided for simplicity sake for his first book to just go by J. period John. but he's a canon in the Church of England. It's kind of like a Monsignor in the Catholic Church or whatever.

He's just a delight. He's very funny. Very, very funny. And so we're going to be talking to him and his wife, Killy, in both hours today. He has a bookout, gorgeous book. But, Alvin, what you didn't know, I don't think you knew that. So as I'm recording this, I have been with TPSA Faith here in Nashville. It's a big pastor's conference. And I was the main speaker last night. And when it was

all over, it was late. I wanted to get some food. I was fatigued because I'd been at the NRB in Orlando. And so I just wanted to get some food. So I finally get back with the folks that I've been eating with. And I walk into the hotel and who's there, but Pastor Yergan from San Diego. And I thought, holy cow, I was just talking. talking with with Canon J. John about you. And it's past Pastor Yergan, I've spoken at his church many times in the San Diego area. They've got a bunch of campuses. But he starts doing the most brilliant imitation of Canon J. John. I was just dying because Canon J. John has a particular way of talking. If I weren't so fatigued, I would try to imitate it right now. But he is an extraordinary figure.

So we've got Cannon J. John for both hours today with his wife, Killy. They were with us in the studio in New York. He's very funny, but he's very, very effective as an evangelist. I just want to mention right after the interview, I said to both you and Canon J. John and his wife, I said, this is the kind of interview Eric would love to do all the time. It's entertaining. It's uplifting. It gives you hope for the world.

Yeah. No, it's true. It was just that much fun. So we're running both hours today just because it was, it was just a blast. We will probably encore it at some point if I'm away or something because a lot of times we do these interviews that are so good. And we know that not everybody is able to listen every single day. But you've got that coming up in a couple of moments. Really, honestly, one of the most fun subs of interviews I have done.

A couple of things to mention before we get to the fun part with Canon J. John and Killy, we have an obligation to remind you just a couple of days left in our campaign with CSI. Ladies and gentlemen, most of you haven't yet participated. And I don't want you to miss this because this is a great opportunity. You have to go to Metaxistocot.com. You click on the banner. I ask you to consider giving anything. Just the smallest amount will help free slaves in Sudan.

We've talked about it on this program all month long. My goal, and I have failed miserably, is to get almost everybody who listens to the program, to do something, something, to go to metaxis talk.com to click on the banner and to give anything. This is a magnificent organization. CSI, it doesn't really get better. That's why we partner with them twice a year because they do what they do so well.

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We all need to be involved. We can't just say it's somebody else's job. We have forgotten that we have an obligation to put our faith into action. And so part of that is informing ourselves. Part of that is doing what we can. Part of that is never shopping at Target again. Part of that is never buying an Anheiser-Busch product again, not just but Light, Stella and their other products. Anheiser-Bush and Target and other corporations have shown total contempt.

for your average American, for American families, you have to get involved. I mean, you have to get involved. Some people say, well, I'm too busy. I don't care. Ladies and gentlemen, if you don't, the ship's going down. Everybody has to do a part and God will be with you. You do your small part. You don't have to be the hero, but you've got to do something.

You've got to support those who are doing something. So right now I mentioned the real Anthony Fauci movie. That is literally free. The real Anthony Fauci Movie.com. I've seen it. It will help you. I also want to say that our campaign with CSI, there is no reason everyone can't do something.

So I'm just going to ask you again, please, please go to metaxis talk.com. Please give anything. Doesn't matter, but please just participate. Register that you participate. You can call 888-253-35-22. 8-88-25-3-35. So I also should say I'm going to be traveling like crazy the next few weeks. I'm going to be speaking in Chino Hills, California at Jack Hibbs' Church at this coming Wednesday.

I'm going to be in Albuquerque. I'm going to be in San Diego. I'm going to be in Portales, New Mexico. go to my website, ericmataxis.com. You can see where I'm going to be. I'm going to be in Denver after that. Really crazy. Please pray for me because it's been a challenging time just in terms of health and stress and craziness.

It's been tough. If you're a praying person, I ask you, please just pray for me during this time because I think that, you know, we're in a spiritual battle. But anyway, coming up. We've got a couple of wonderful hours with our friend Kenon, Jay John's wife, Kelly. And again, don't forget, CSI, go to metaxistalk.com. It's vital that everyone do something, metaxestalk.com. With the overturn of Roe v. Wade, lots of companies are coming out saying they'll pay for employee abortion travel and expenses.

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and he's brought along his new wife, Killy. Killy, welcome to the program. Oh, it's great to be on, Eric. How long have you kids been together? What's it been a month? Come on. Hey, 40 years this year. We've been married.

40? 40, that's a biblical number. That's a big number. Yes. And everyone says the first 40 years are the toughest, so congratulations. I think you're going to make it. Well, it was 39 happy ones. That first year, Eric,

was tough. Was that true? Yes, she threw the salad spoons at me. That's absolutely normal. I often say, unto the 10th year. But at Christmas, when you bring a Christmas tree into your home, you've got to rearrange the furniture. But when you bring another person into your life, you've got to rearrange a lot more. So it takes a bit of adjusting.

I'm not buying that. I think you're right, as you usually are. Look, it's wonderful to have both of you here. I know that you spoke at Times Square Church last night. And Killy, how'd he do? Did he do all right? Not a lot of people for the altar call. I heard it was not good.

Oh, yeah. No, I heard it was not good. No, I actually have no idea what happened last night. I wanted to be there. But what was amazing, Eric, wasn't it, Killy? Is that when I said, I'm going to call you to the altar in a few minutes. So there was an altar call. Yes, but I said in a few minutes and people came straight away.

Yeah, because they want to get a good spot. Because that spot is holier than that spot. Everybody knows that's the glory zone. You need to hit the glory zone. I've spoken many times at Times Square Church. I met my current wife, my only wife, of almost 27 years, at Times Square Church. And then I've had the privilege, of course, of speaking there a number of times over the years. And my standard dumb joke when I speak at Times Square Church is that I can't help myself when I'm there because it's a, it's a

fun crowd. That's one of the joys of speaking at Times Square Church. It's such, it's so much fun. I always say that I met my wife, Suzanne, right here in this church. And then I say, in fact, I met all three of my wives right here at Times Square Church. And people know that I'm laughing, that I'm joking. So they laugh. I'm always worried that they're going to think what, but they know I'm joking. Look. What's so great about the church. Can I just say this, Eric? Please. So multi-racial and cosmopolitan. That's what I love. Without trying.

I think the best part is that they're that way without trying to be that way. They just are. And that's what I noticed when I walked in there for the first time in 1990. I remember looking around thinking, what is this? This is terrific. I'd never seen anything like it. It actually changed New York for me. I remember leaving Times Square Church.

This would have been the spring of 90. And I thought, I felt different about the whole city, knowing that that church was there. Well, in any event, you don't live in New York. You don't sound like, where do you live? We live in a little tiny place called Chorleywood, which is just outside London. So we're still on the subway, the railway line. What do you call it? Underground.

We call it the underground. I knew that. Why don't you just say that? We're not dumb. We've watched English films on the underground. The underground. So what's interesting is, how do you pronounce the name of your town? Chorleywood.

See, it sounds so lovely the way Killy says it, Chorleywood. Yes. I would say Chorley Wood. Yes, and we live on Quickly Lane. Quickly? Yes. Quickly Lane. So we're in this little, quaint little village, but we're only 30 minutes from the

center of London. That's pretty swell. Yeah. Wow. Nice. It's great. I've not been to London in some time, you know. No.

But we're going this summer. We will be there for just a few days this summer. and we had our honeymoon in London, which tells you a little bit about us, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Wow. We must be anglofiles or we couldn't afford the other places, either one or the other. No, I, okay, listen, we're not here to talk about these things, but it's so much fun to see you.

I want to say, first of all, you're an evangelist principally. So that's how you think of yourself. Yes. And so you travel a lot. Usually with your current wife, Kili, I can't believe. it 40 years. I really can't believe it 40 years. So how many children, grandchildren? We have three children and three grandchildren. Yeah. Are they anywhere near you? They are, everyone's in London, so it's great. Oh. Yeah. No, really great. And you've heard that grandchildren are a gift from God,

Eric, for not killing your own children. I like that. Yeah. I like that. We've got, I've got, Eric, I've got more patience with my grandchildren than I ever had with my children. Yeah. Well, that's, you, one hears that over and over again, and it's a strange thing. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I accept it. You've spoken, it says here in my notes, that you've spoken in 69 countries.

Yes. That's extraordinary. But you've been doing this now for decades. Yeah, and some of those multiple times. I would think so. Yeah, the Middle East and Asia and Africa, North America, Tralachia. Yeah, people often say, how are you, Jay John? And I say, well, there's not too much wrong with the model. It's the mileage. I mean, really, though, that's extraordinary. Well,

look, I want to talk to you about everything. That's the problem. But fortunately, you've helped me focus by bringing along a very beautiful book. I have to say it's rare that I have a covetous impulse. When I see something, you know, sometimes you see something, you just say, I want that because it's so beautiful. This is a beautiful. book. It's titled Heroes of the Faith. And you do go just by J. John, J. period, John, even though I know technically you may have a more complicated name. Absolutely. On documents, on various documents around the world. As you know, Eric, I'm Greek, and my name in Greek is Janagis Yuanis. But if you translate it into English, it's John, son of John. Right. John McJohn. It is. Or John Bar John.

Or Johann Bar Johann or something like that. But so you've decided to simplify things. Well, no, when I wrote my first book, I decided, oh, well, I couldn't really put the Greek name on there. It didn't feel kind of right. And I thought, oh, I'll anglicize it. And then I was surprised that the book did really well. And the author of the book was being invited to go and speak. So that's how it stuck.

That's very interesting. Marilyn Monroe has the same story, by the way. So many people, but it is, you hear these stories over and over and over again, of people, public people who somehow something happened with their name, and then they carried on, and here they are now. But Killy, is Killy short for something? Yes. What is Killy short for?

She laughs, like, oh, I'm supposed to know, I don't know. Killy is short for Killed-Dees. For what? Yes, there you go. Killed-Dees. What kind of a name is Killetys? It's where my parents went for their honeymoon. It's a place in County Fermanagh in Northern Ireland.

And so I always say it's a good job. There's a place in England called Bogner. It's always say it's a good job. They didn't go there for their honeymoon. Ah. Kiladies. Did they call you that growing up? Well done.

Can I just say well done for straightaway saying it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But Eric, Killy comes from generations and generations of missionaries. and I'm first generation. Like grandparents.

Yep. So my grandmother on my mother's side was a missionary to Burma, my animal now. Yes, back in the 1920s, 30s. And then on the other side, my great-uncle was actually influential in bringing Billy Graham

to the UK back in the day. Because her great-uncle... See, now we're just dropping names. That's unnecessary. Albin. Can you believe that they would do a thing like that? No, come on, seriously? Yes. That's unbelievable.

In the Second World War, he was the Billy Graham of Britain. And what was his name? So his name is Tom Reese. Tom Reese. And after the Second World War, he booked the Albert Hall. You know the big Albert Hall. The Albert Hall? Yeah.

Where I've sung many times in my mind. Yeah. But listen to this. Kay, sarah, sirrah. That's it. Yes. But all the theaters, weren't they? They're all shut because of the Second World War.

He turns up at the Royal Albert Hall. He says, I want to book it every Saturday for 52 Saturdays because it was empty. And he put newspaper ads and says, come and hear what Jesus can do for you. He filled it 52 consecutive weeks. Color me impressed. I mean, I love stories like this. How wonderful. So that would have been just 1940s.

Yeah. Well, yeah. And your father was a clergyman in Cambridge. Yes. At Holy Trinity, the well-known... Charles Simeon. Oh, stop it. Yes.

Alvin, they're dropping names again. You know, this kind of celebrity schmaltz, I don't like it on this program. But Eric, Eric. Charles Simeon. Eric, when I met... When I met Killy, she was sitting on the fence. So we had to get the fence electrocuted. Well, no, I don't know that I follow that or want that visual image in my mind.

So strike that from the record, if you would. No, listen, you, Charles Simeon, most people listening now, don't know who Charles Simeon is. And in show business, this is what we call a cliffhanger. When we come back, we're going to tell you who the great Charles Simeon was, is. In history, we're going to talk about Heroes of the Faith. That's the book in front of me right now by Canon J. John. Heroes of the Faith, don't go away. Are you tired of not getting a good night?

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I plan to have plenty more fun because I'm talking to Jay John and Killey. Do you go by Killey John? Yes. You do? Yes. How fortunate. So, Killy and Jay John, we were just talking. We're going to be talking, actually we're already talking, even though people may not know, about this new book Heroes of the Faith, because you just mentioned one of your four bears and Charles Simeon.

Yes, so he was a clergyman in Cambridge. back in the 1800s, somewhere around that time. Well, it's the very, very earliest part of the 19th century. I mean, Charles Simeon was there. He would have been there, you know, I believe right after, I mean, during Wilberforce's time, because Simeon figures prominently in my book, Amazing Grace, about Wilberforce and was part of the Clapham

sect circle. I always say the Clapham Circle, but sect was used as a pejorative. They called them the Clapham. saints. In any event, Charles Simeon was an absolutely central figure in Wilberforce's life and in

abolition and in the host of things they did for God. And somehow you're related to... So I'm not actually related. Yeah. But he was the rector at the church where my father

ended up being the vicar. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. But this history, it's amazing. And they even had his sort of of umbrella in an amazing little sort of box and his teapot. What do you mean his sort of umbrella? His umbrella and also his teapot. They have his umbrella displayed in the church, like a relic. That's as close to the C of E gets to relics at this point.

We've got Simeon's umbrella. That's about it. But, you know, Eric, did you know that at his funeral, there were thousands and thousands of clergy, bishops, archbishops. And in those days, they didn't use the word mentoring, but he mentored so many young pastors that change. It changed the landscape and the spirituality of the nation. Well, listen, fortunately, for all of us, within the pages of this book, Heroes of the Faith, we can find Charles Simeon.

It really is a beautiful book. I want to say congratulations on it. And let me say that it looks like a compilation of 50 short biographies of Heroes of the Faith. So many of them are folks with whom I'm familiar and Truman Capote. Now, why is he in here? That doesn't make any sense. Just kidding. I got you.

I got you. But in this book, you do have Charles Simeon, number 13. So we can look that right up because I'm really fascinated when you just said you were giving us the details. Is this, am I going to be able to find it? You said that he was profoundly influential in his day. And, you know, I don't know those details. So tell us more about that while I'm looking him up. I feel like at one point there were ministers within the Church of England.

I mean, like almost two thirds of all the ministers have been influenced by him. Personally. Personally. And I think he was at the church for 50 years. Yeah. It was a really long... Well, he was born in the same year in which William Wilberforce was born.

He was born in 1759. Yes. Okay. And, I mean, that tells us, obviously, that he was already, as I suspected, you know, getting busy in the 18th, century. Yes.

And then well into the to the 19th. But let's see. It will tell us he died in 1836, so he died just three years after Wilberforce, a couple of months before the start of Victoria's reign. But, I mean, this is just one example from this book of people with whom we ought to be familiar. They're so exciting. I mean, once you get to know who they are. Absolutely.

But the idea that your father, Killy, was at this. church in Cambridge. I'm sure I've been there. Yes. Yes, it's right in the city center. Well, look, but you know what I love, Eric, I love that scripture where it says there's a great cloud of witnesses that are urging us and encouraging us on. And, you know, here are 50 of those great cloud of witnesses who are urging us on. And that's an encouragement, isn't it? That all different types of people from all walks of life had the same heart that, you that we have. Well, yes, and it's important we know there's stories,

and as I said, many of them will be familiar with, many of them we won't. I've often had the thought of writing a book like this, but then I see a book like this, and I think, how wonderful that I don't now have to write this book, because you've done such as big, I mean, I'm not kidding, what a beautiful book and what a wonderful job you've done. But I want to go through.

The list of names, first let me ask you. I see Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I see Francis of Assisi, Hannah Moore, oh my goodness, G.K. Chesterton, Rosa Parks. But what determined the order in which you put them? Because they're not in chronological order. They're not in alphabetical order. Is there any discernible order? Why did you put them in this order?

Well, okay. The origin of them was during lockdown in England, which was pretty severe. Yeah. I felt I wanted to encourage our constituency. Yeah. And that's when Killy said to me, oh, why don't you do something, you know, the Great Cloud of Witnesses? And I thought, yes. So, in fact, my first one was William Wilberforce.

And I just wrote one just to encourage people. Okay, so he's the first one. All right, we're not going to let you finish the answer to this question. because we have to go to a break. But we will, of course, when we come back, let you finish the answer. The book is Heroes of the Faith by Jay John. Don't go away.

Folks, welcome back. I have the joy of speaking with my friends, Jay John and his wife of 40 years, Killy. And we're talking about your new book, Jay John, called Heroes of the Faith. It is a very beautiful book. I never say that lightly. It's a beautiful book.

It's an object d'art as well as being a book. I was asking you why do you have these heroes of the faith in the order in which you have them, because they're not in chronological order. So please carry on with your answer. Yes. So during lockdown, which I said was pretty strict in England, I wrote one to encourage our constituency. And then Kili said, well, why don't you write another? So I did, and then another.

And so I ended up writing 122. So there's a volume two at least coming out? It's coming out later in the year, yes. So basically I started, when I first came to Christ as a student, I mean, I was eating books seriously, because I was given all these biographies of all types of people, and I would read one a night. I was so hungry, not only for scripture,

but also to read what God's people have done over the year. years. And so there were a number of them that I was still familiar with. But then as I kept going, we did more research and discovered, well, there's actually thousands out there. And they're beautiful stories and they're important people. Again, I'm looking at the cover. There are only 16 illustrations on the cover, 16 of these figures. I can identify, I think, most of them. I see Harriet Tubman looks like Phyllis Diller, am I right? Yes.

The comedian Phyllis Diller. It looks like Francis Schaefer. Francis Schaefer looking a little bit sad as he was wont to do. We have Chesterton, we have Bonhofer, George Washington Carver. This looks like

it's either William Booth or John Brown. I don't know. Who's that? William Booth. William Booth. Fannie Crosbury because nobody else wears those dark glass, 19th century glasses, C.S. Lewis, Madam Chenkech, I think. But what's amazing, Eric, is the fact you've got different people,

men, women, from different cultures, different countries, and different centuries, all passionate about following Jesus and serving him. Yeah. There are so many here. Now, again, many of them I'm familiar with, but some less so. Some of them, I think we have a glancing familiarity with them. Some of them I've never heard of. Who was Robert Murray Machane? Oh, McShane.

Oh, my word. Probably in his time, the greatest preacher in Scotland. And what was his time? He died. But listen to this. He died when he was 29. And he made it into the book. He made it into the book because of what he did.

If you, Kili and I, we read the Bible through every once a year, every year. Yeah. Okay. And we use the Robert Murray-Machane Bible reading plan. Where you read. He has a Bible reading plan. Yes. And you read four chapters a day.

Our great friend Dr. R.T. Kendall, he has used the Robert Murray-Machshane Bible reading plan for 56 consecutive years. So Dr. R.T. Kendall reads through the Bible. Consecutive years. Yeah. That's rather impressive. He was remarkable as a preacher, both in Scotland, in Israel, and it's incredible. How much can be accomplished in a short life? Well, I mean, I love being introduced to new figures. I'm afraid I don't know who Josephine Butler is. So Josephine Butler, again, she was a British lady. And she did amazing work within the dockyards.

She was sort of upper class. Yes, she has that look, especially if there's a beautiful portrait of her, that she must have been upper class. So she was born in 1828, died in 1906. And you say that she was one of the most important English women of the 19th century. So I've heard the name, but just tell us a little bit about her. It sounds like she did, as you call it, charity work. She, I believe, went down to the dockyards and just served down there.

Served the poor, the prostitutes, the downcast. I mean, a trailblazer for her time, wouldn't you say, Killy? And very much sort of put, you know, put her own life sort of on the back burner as you were to serve others. We were talking this morning, Eric, as we were coming here to see you, what were the common denominators of these 50 people? And I came up with two, you came up with one. The two that I came up with is humility. They were very, very humble people, all of them, even though they're,

accomplished great things. And I think humility is to receive praise and to pass it onto God untouched. That's it really. Last year, I spoke at this pastor's conference on preaching how to preach. And the guy introducing me said, oh, how shall I introduce you? And I said, oh, just say our next speaker is J. John. He's a donkey. And he goes, no, no, no, no, I can't say you're a donkey. I said, you just ask. me how to introduce you. I said, that's how I want you to introduce me. Just say, our next speaker is J. John, he's a donkey. So he gets up, he goes, our next speaker is J. John. And he told me to say that you're a donkey. And I walk on, people are laughing. And then I retell the story of Jesus on the donkey going into Jerusalem. The donkey was so excited. This

was his first outing. Everyone loves the donkey. He can't believe that he's so... People are cheering. Chearing. You're throwing palm fronds in front of him. They love him. And they don't want his feet to get muddy, so they lay down their clothes. He thinks this is the life. But of course, we know what happened to the donkey when he got to Jerusalem.

You never ever heard of him again. We just carry Jesus. So I would say one of the things is humility. The other thing is holiness. These are people who endeavor to keep. clean and you said faithfulness i mean they they put up you know they lost their children they lost their families and yet they still stuck with it and kept going we need we need to be uh inspired and encouraged by stories like these uh and so um we will continue our conversation with j john and

killy the book is heroes of the faith folks welcome back the book in my hands a beautiful, beautiful book is called Heroes of the Faith by Canon J. John, sitting here with his wife, Killy. I have to say, I'm not shocked by a little surprise to see Rembrandt here. Tell us about Rembrandt, because not everyone knows much about his biography or about his faith. We simply know about his beautiful paintings. And that's the reason, isn't it, Kelly, we decided to put him in. Because of the beautiful paintings that he did and the religious art that he did. And again, he was another one, wasn't he, that was, you know, a little bit out there. But he just created amazing, amazing art, you know.

And a lot of people, Eric, don't always know that people like him had a deep, deep faith. Well, yeah, that's the point. I mean, I wasn't clear on that. and I'm glad that you're making it clear. And he did actually. He really did. And in those days, they didn't use the word evangelical. But to me, in my reading and research,

he would have been like we are. But he expressed so much of his faith through his art. And God used his art to help people on their journey of faith. Yeah. there are so many vital figures in here I'm shocked to see that there is someone here whom I had the privilege to meet in my life John Stott is here in the book

and I'm sure you knew him quite well Oh do you know he What an amazing man When I was first I first started speaking at universities As a young evangelist And he invited me to go and have tea with him And so I was so excited I'm going to meet with John Stott.

And he says to me, we sit down, he makes the tea. He says, now tell me about your devotional life. And because I didn't expect that question, I thought he was going to talk to me about global evangelization. It kind of threw me a bit. Doesn't that seem like a mean trick question? Yes. Stott says, I've got this young upstart coming in here.

Must think a lot of himself. I'll fix him. No, but I mean, that's like what a question. question to be asked. And I didn't know how to answer it. There's no right way to answer that question. I was like, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, tell me about your prayer life. I was like, what do you mean? And then, of course, if you don't know how to answer a question, you ask a question. So I said, oh, well, tell me about your devotional life. And he said this. I pray and read the scriptures one hour a day one afternoon a week one day a month and one week a year and i walked out

and i thought if john stock can do one hour a day one afternoon a week one day a month one week a week a year i'm going to do the same and that became my practice wow and of course there are certain weeks you can't do that of course yeah but at least there's a goal and do you know when he had to go into a nursing home Eric, and they cleared his apartment. Beside his bed, there were two holes through the carpet. Oh, stop. I mean, really? I mean, when you hear things like this, it sounds made up.

Of course, I don't believe that it is made up. But my goodness. I mean, can you imagine how many hours you must have been on your knees to make two holes through thick carpet? Sheesh. First of all, start with thin carpet if you want to impress the people. Always start with the thinnest possible carpet. And, no, that's so wonderful.

Look, there's so much more to talk about. That ends this portion of the conversation. I hope people will get a copy. It is a beautiful, beautiful book. Heroes of the Faith, really gorgeous, by Canon J. John. Thank you, Canon, Jay John, and thank you, Killy. Thank you.