The Eric Metaxas Show - Killy & Canon J. John (continued)

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Canon J. John and his wife Killy continue discussing more amazing and encouraging people throughout history who've made a real difference in the world, sharing stories from J. John's book, "Heroes of the Faith."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy pm investments.com. Did you overhear the expression, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Well, when Eric Metaxus was little, he had his own lemonade stand. And he sold so much lemonade, he became rich beyond his wildest dreams. Now he's able to do whatever he wants. He's now the host of a big time radio show.

Welcome the guy who's oh so lemony sweet, Eric Matt, Texas. Hey there, folks. In case you're wondering, I get to continue my conversation with Canon J. John and his wife, Killy. The book that we've been discussing and that we'll continue to discuss is titled Heroes of the Faith about 50 heroes of the faith. I'm surprised in some ways that the title wasn't already taken. It seems like there would be 100.

There probably are 100 books with this title, but this is the one that people must get. Well, it's current. It's conveyed in a way that's going to be accessible to people today. Not like those other lousy heroes of the faith books that are available, which you shouldn't buy. No, but it's true, though. this book, I said it in our previous conversation. It's a very beautiful book. It is accessible.

I really can't praise it enough. It's very beautiful. And it's the sort of book you could use for homeschool or for whatever. There aren't many books that you can flip through in the way that you can flip through this book. There's something about it that it seems to lend itself to that. You don't feel an obligation. Like, I've got to read it. I've got to read it. You can just take in a little bit. Absolutely. Well, we hoped and produced it in such a way. It's a coffee table book that it's always going to be out to pick up and dip in. And hopefully it will infuse in people a little bit of faith, hope and love. Well, I'm sure that it will.

I can't say enough how beautiful it is. Now, you self-publish, which I find all the more impressive. Usually self-published books are lacking something aesthetically, visually, as we say here in America. But you've done a beautiful job on every level. The design of it is beautiful. And one of the reasons, of course I wrote from various publishers over the years, but what we really wanted to do, the thing that prompted us in self-publishing,

and we produced children's books and created an imprint called Theology for Little People, is that we're able to distribute them. So, for example, we were able to distribute 3,000 children's books to, to 55 children's hospices and children's hospitals around the United Kingdom. And, I mean, that was a massive project. So that's one of our projects. We distribute resources and books to 120 prisons in the United Kingdom. So by itself publishing, we are able, because of the cost,

be able to do that much more than we were before. full. My goodness. There's so many figures in the book, and I want to spend the time going over those that we haven't mentioned in our first conversation together, but you wanted me, in the course of this conversation, to talk a little bit with you about the Ten Commandments. And now that I'm sitting here with you, you realize every time a word comes out of my mouth, I say the Ten Commandments, and I hear myself, so I should be saying commandments, not commandments, but it is so, it is so funny to me that I prefer the way you pronounce most things. So thank you for making me feel uncomfortable. Please continue. Now, let me ask you a question, Eric. How many times did God in the Bible write with his finger?

I'm thinking twice. Twice. Okay. Right. He wrote once and he wrote the Ten Commandments with his finger. We know what he wrote the first time. Yes. The second time, for all we know, No, he may have been doodling. We don't... Okay. We agree. But he wrote the Ten Commandments, okay? And he wrote on the wall in...

In Nebuchadnezzar's palace. He wrote... On the wall. On the wall. Okay. And then the Son of God wrote in the sand with his finger. Yeah. So the first...

And it does say right, right? He didn't... So he didn't doodle. He was writing something. He wrote with his finger. What a concept, yeah. Yeah. So the first one...

he wrote the Ten Commandments, that's law. Yeah. Then he wrote on the wall, that's judgment. And then he wrote in the sand, that's grace. And somehow we have to hold law, judgment and grace together, which is fascinating. Now, I have preached and taught the Ten Commandments 37 times around the United Kingdom. And just over one million people have attended. the meetings. Now, I do them in reverse order. So I start with coveting, how to find true contentment.

And then I do lying, how to hold to the truth. Then I do stealing how to prosper with a clear conscience. After I've done the stealing one, I ask everybody to return their stolen goods to their rightful owner. And if they can't, we introduce amnesty trash cans and they bring their stolen goods. Wait a minute. You're saying this literally. Oh yes. Oh yes. Yes. So we did 37 cities and they put in half a million pounds worth of cash into the trash cans. We had envelopes with 20,000 pounds inside anonymous note. We got burgled 20 years ago and claimed for jewelry that was never stolen. Other people, there was one, 25,000 pounds and the lady said, I was the matron of a nursing home and I stole old people's jewelry and I want to return it. And I said to people,

when I'm teaching this, have you ever phoned in at work and said you're sick when you're not sick? Because if you have, you've stolen from your employer. Did you know that 95% of sick days on Monday and Friday. Yeah. Who wants a long weekend? Yeah. That's a coincidence. Well, if you're sick, who can blame you?

Oh, yeah. Anyway, and then I go on and we do adultery, how to have fair pre-for relationships, and then they bring their partners and put them into the trash cans. Stop that. But murder, Eric, how to manage your anger, we had an amnesty for knives, guns, and ammunition. And in Liverpool, I did it in Liverpool Cathedral, and it was jammed. We had so much ammunition that the police had to send two vehicles to come and take it all away. Don't let a match at one of his crusades.

Seriously, that's just so, I mean, wow, I hardly know what to say because I'm amazed at the, how do I put it, you know, the practical aspect of this, the idea that you're not just talking about, but you're giving people an opportunity genuinely to repent, to give the money back. And if they can't, then to put it in these trash cans to be, I'm not sure what you do with it. But I mean, the idea that you're giving people the opportunity. But the reason I bring this up in part is that I think one of the problems,

you know, with those of us who would describe ourselves as evangelicals, But Christians in general is that we forget that these kinds of practical things are helpful for our inner repentance. Absolutely. We act as though, well, I did it in my head. And it's like, well, no, because we're very quick, or many people are very quick, to criticize Roman Catholics for, well, they've got this and they do that. And you think, well, that can go wrong, but it can also go. go right when you give someone an opportunity to act out this repentance or whatever it is. So how wonderful.

Where did you ever get the idea of doing this? It's amazing. Well, it started in the year 1999 when we're going into a new year, new millennium, and everyone's seeking the Lord. I'm seeking the Lord. What shall I focus on Lord? And I just felt the Lord say, teach the Ten Commandments. That's what I felt.

And it was such a curveball. Do you remember we talked about it? And it seemed old. Is this a God idea or a good idea? And then I thought, well, how about if I try it out in my church, my own church, and just see what happens? And it was incredible. I mean, when we got to the idols, I said to them, right,

if you've got any idols, anything dark, occultic, witchcraft, bring it all back. And they would bring everything. Ouija boards, tarot cards, crystals. All right, hang on. We're going to go to a break. I'm almost too much enjoying my conversation with Canon, J. John, and Kili. The book is Heroes of the Faith. Beautiful book. We'll be right back. With the overturn of Roe v. Wade, lots of companies are coming out saying they'll pay for employee abortion travel and expenses.

Most of you've heard about some of these companies. You've decided to stop shopping or doing business there. But did you know that you most likely own stock in those companies through your 401Ks, IRAs, IRAs, and other investment accounts? Folks, this is a huge problem, and we need to do something about this to send a message to Wall Street through our investments. You need to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric and get a free Inspire Impact Report. This biblical investment analysis will educate you on what's really in your investment accounts, like companies paying for abortion travel. You need to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric to connect with an Inspire Advisors Financial Professional who can run your report and help remove companies paying for abortion travel today. go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric.

That's inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Advisory services are offered through Inspire Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the SEC. Legacy precious metals has a revolutionary new online platform that allows you to invest in real gold and silver online. In a few easy steps, you can open an account online, select your medals of choice, and choose to have them stored in a vault or ship to your door.

You have access to a dashboard where you can your portfolio growth in real time, anytime. You'll see transparent pricing on each coin and bar. This puts you in complete control of your money. The platform is free to sign up for. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com and open your account and see this new investing platform for yourself. Gold hedges against inflation and against a volatile stock market. A true diversified portfolio isn't just more stocks and bonds, but different asset classes. This new platform allows you to make investments in gold and silver, no matter how small or large, With a few clicks, visit legacy pminvestments.com to get started.

You're going to love this free new tool they've added. LegacyP.m. Investments.com. Legacy p.m. Investments.com. Check it out. I continue my conversation with Canon J. John. Canon is an English, Church of England term. It is. If I was a Catholic, I'd be Monsignor. Monsignor. That kind of sounds better, doesn't it?

A bit more Rappet. What if you were Pentecostal? You'd be a bishop. Okay, so we're talking to Canon J. John and his wife, Kili. The book is Heroes of the Faith, gorgeous book. But we're talking about the Ten Commandments, as I pronounce it, self-consciously, commandments, Eric. But you were just saying about preaching on the Ten Commandments in your local parish,

and you came to talking about idols. So please talk about that. Yes. And then when I, again, when I do them in reverse sort, Eric, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And when I got to the stealing one, I just felt prompted to get people to return their stolen goods. And as I continued with the commandments, I felt, okay, how can we be practical? And so when I got to the idols one, I just said, look, have you got anything that is unhealthy in your home? Have you got anything that God forbids?

Okay, but what I love here is that the standard response to this is that we can only have idols in our hearts, not actual idols. Of course we have idols in our hearts, but you are talking about, yes, we can get to that, but actual idols, actual objects that are occultic or somehow forbidden. I mean, that's what, yeah. Which people have as art. And it's incredible.

I mean, we go around museums viewing things that God forbids. Isn't that interesting? Well, sure. Anyway, now, I didn't itemize them. I just said, if there is anything that you feel uncomfortable with it. And then the following week, they brought Ouija boards, tarot cards, crystals. People from your church. People, because so many visitors had come.

Okay, because people attending your church for some time. I would think eventually they would know this stuff. But not everyone hears it. Isn't it, Kili? I think that's the thing. Not everybody hears it. And so, you know, how often do you hear a talk on the Ten Commandments here? Right.

And also practical application is always a good thing, isn't it? And then restitution, you were talking about Zakeas. Yeah, well, it's biblical, isn't it? Zakias, Jesus came to his house. And he said, you know, you need to make restitution. You have to pay everyone back. So actually, there is a good biblical principle. for it, isn't there? Well, yeah, and that's what we're saying is that sometimes working out the

reality of it, the practical reality of it, because it's so easy for us to make it all this mental thing that I say, okay, I've got an idol of greed, well, okay, but when you can do something physical, somehow that's very important. Of course, God came in the flesh. He didn't just, you know, talk to us from the clouds. He came to us in the flesh. This is an important part of walking out one's faith. But I just love the idea that while you're preaching on the Ten Commandments, you're giving people this opportunity.

I really do think that it's freeing for people. There's a delight when people can actually do something. Eric, so therapeutic. I came to receive Christ as a student in London. And a couple of days later, I felt very uncomfortable that I had these books on plastic surgery because I wanted to be a plastic surgeon and I'd stolen the books

there was one particularly encyclopedia on plastic surgery that cost like... Now I'm confused. Did you have a problem with the fact only that you had stolen them or did you have a problem with the fact that you had books on plastic surgery? No, I wanted to be a plastic surgeon.

You don't have a theological issue with plastic surgery. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a doctor. Because this is not the nose I was born with ladies and gentlemen. I want you to know. No, no, no. All I'm saying, though, Eric, was no one told me, and I felt I should take them back to the store.

So I go back to the store. Again, I'm a very young Christian, only a few days, and I go into the store, and I say to one of the assistants, hey, I've got books that I stole. I want to return them. And she looked at me as though I was an alien that had just landed from another planet. Anyway, speed up the story. I'm sitting in front of the director. of this huge book department in London called Foyles.

He said, tell me, I said, I stole these books. Why couldn't you just dump them off and run? Why do you have to deal with this stuff? I just felt I should take them back. But why do you have to, you know, it's just fascinating to me that you had to sit there with the director of it. I know.

And then I said to him, but I met Jesus last week. Uh-huh. And Jesus told me to bring them back. Yeah. And he said, do you realize I could call the police now? And that never occurred to me. Yeah.

And I thought, my mum, my Greek mom's going to kill me. Yeah. Anyway, but he said, he said, I've never, ever come across this before. He says, you're free to go. So picking up on your point a moment ago, Eric, I walked out of his office. There was like five stairs, but I just jumped all five stairs. I was free. there I was like

cleanse I experienced this cathartic experience and I was liberated well it's interesting because since I wrote a biography about Martin Luther it's very easy for people to sneer at how the Catholic Church

made you know living out the faith very practical to the point of preposterous and idolatrous or things, but you can see how people are longing for a right way of somehow practically living things out. That's not wrong. It needn't all be mental assent. We have to embody things and sometimes repentance can be embodied. And what you're talking about is a beautiful example of that. That we really do long for that as human beings. The Lord created us to long for that. And the thing is, each commandment, there's good news.

So I'll give you an example. And Kili and I have worked through all of these commandments. And let's take the one on murder. Okay, don't let your anger get so out of control that you take a life. Okay. Now, then what's the application? Well, if you look at the Bible, a man called Moses murdered, a man called King David murdered and a man called Paul murdered.

but God took three ex-mergerers to write most of the Bible. That's a happy redemptive story. But it is interesting that God would also, in his mercy to us, allow these three figures that we are tempted to worship or idolize to show us that they had more than feet of clay, that they were sinners in such a dramatic way. It's interesting that even that's part of God's plan, that to have Paul standing by as Stephen is stoned,

to have Moses in his anger, murder, an Egyptian, and of course to have David effectively murder Uriah the Hittite, it's interesting that the Lord would arrange that so that these greatest of figures would be seen as having had to repent of the word. type of sin, murder. Yeah. And to be actually honored in the Bible, aren't they as well, even despite their flaws? Which I think is an amazing thing about the grace, isn't it?

The grace of God. Yeah. You know, we can have that forgiveness if there is repentance. Well, what I'm fascinated by every time I sit down with Jay John, I got to say, is you seem to think, like in sermon illustrations, or you seem to think, it's the way God made you. When you talked about, you know, the three times that God writes with his finger, you know, that seems like a perfect sermon, I think, to myself.

Like, I want to preach that. That's beautiful. Yes. And it's the same thing with what you just said about David and Paul and Moses. It seems to get, were you always that way? Because you seem to think in a very organized, kind of cheerful way. just very helpful somehow. Well, we've known each other 42 years gone.

Was I always like that? Well, you're fairly cheerful, I have to say. He is a cheerful guy. Would you say that he can be annoyingly cheerful? Well, you know, Eric... He's very positive. There's people, you know, the glass is half empty, and then there's glass is half full.

But where the glass is overflowing, aren't we? We try. I try to be. I'm not... Try to be. Probably as good as you, but... Yeah. There are some people, Eric, Eric, there's some people...

who create happiness wherever they go. And there are some people who create happiness whenever they go. You know, I don't think... He's got a million of them. But the thing is, as Christians, look, come on. In the words of Nehemiah, the joy of the Lord is my strength. That doesn't mean I'm immune to suffering and I'm immune to other things. Of course.

But you press on. One presses on. Doesn't one. You've neglected. sufficiently to promote your book, Heroes of the Faith, which we will mark down as false humility. And when we come back, we're going to talk about Heroes of the Faith. This is such a beautiful book.

It is 50 stories of Heroes of the Faith, but just so beautifully produced. So as soon as we come back, we will leap back into that subject with Jay John and Killey. Don't go away. Are you tired of not getting a good night's sleep? Well, my friend Mike Lundell has created the perfect solution. He didn't just stop at the pillow. He also created the Giza Dream Bed Sheets made from the world's best cotton called Giza.

These sheets are ultra-soft and breathable yet extremely durable. And now for a limited time, you can get 50% off the Giza Dream Sheets with prices starting as low as 2998. These sheets come in a variety of sizes and colors and have a 60-day money-back guarantee and a 10-year warranty. Take advantage of this amazing offer. Go to mypillow.com and click on the radio podcast. Square and use promo code Metaxus at checkout. You can also find deep discounts and all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress topper and my pillow towel sets.

Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Take advantage of this amazing offer. Go to MyPillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use promo code Eric at checkout. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Call 800-978-3057 or go to MyPillow.com now and use promo code Eric. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night.

I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients. And each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a,

different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such wonderful relief. If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise, they're just getting older. You should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you. It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried and have ordered more. On one of them, go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Welcome back. We're talking to Canon J. John and his wife, Killie. And we're talking about many things, but we're wanting to promote this gorgeous book, Heroes of the Faith. I keep saying how beautiful it is. It really is like a coffee table book. Not like a gigantic coffee table book, but nonetheless larger than your average book. And very beautifully produced. There are a number of figures on the cover whom I don't recognize. Who is this dower-looking woman here on the lower, on the right, just below Chesterton?

I think that's Gladys Aylwood. And your listeners may remember the film with Ingrid Bergman. Yes. In of the Sixth Happiness, which was her story, slightly dramatized. Yeah. But she was an amazing woman, a very small lady who wanted to go from the UK to China to serve, but, you know, she wasn't a healthy person. But she ended up going and doing the most amazing work out there.

And in fact, she led children out from an orphanage to a place of safety when there was the sort of one of the Chinese wars. Wow. And then following Gladys, we see Apollo Kivebulaya. who is apollo kivabulaya again what we did in the book her we tried to draw from different cultures different countries different continents and the reason i put him in the book is because you've got this man who had an incredible influence in his generation um as a preacher and he's unknown I was going to say he's born in 1864 in Uganda, what has become Uganda. And so, yeah, it's funny because I wrote a book called Seven Men and a book called Seven Women and another book called Seven More Men.

And it's wonderful when you can insert someone who's virtually unknown, knowing that people who are thrilled to read about C.S. Lewis and Bonhoeff or whatever will stumble upon this other figure. But so tell us a little bit. And again, I think his humility, just the humble guy from a very poor background who encounters Jesus and just wants to serve Jesus. And, you know, he, you know, in some ways becomes the Billy Graham of his era. Wow. You know what I mean? And yet we've not heard of him. Yeah.

But there are tens of thousands of these types of people, which is a huge encouragement that God knows them all. Well, I just turned the page and I bump into James Clerk Maxwell. Now, I don't know if you're familiar with my book, Is Atheism Dead? I am. I am. I am. Fairly recently called Is Atheism Dead? And the story of Maxwell, Maxwell without any question, the only person in the history of the world who could be thought of as the equal of Newton or Einstein is Maxwell.

And yet he's not known in the way that Einstein is. and Newton are known, but he was as profound a Christian as any who ever lived. And that was why I wrote about him in my book. But I'm thrilled to see that he's made his way into your book. And Einstein had a portrait of him in his home. It's kind of funny because I think Einstein once kind of cracked. Somebody said to him, they compared Einstein to Newton, and he corrected them. And he said, no, Maxwell.

You know, he basically was, he pointed to Maxwell before Newton. That's right. Because Maxwell, but the level of genius of Maxwell, it's a little frightening, but then you realized that he was just profoundly Christian. Oh, yes. And, you know, he lived fairly recently. This is not like, you know, you can say, oh, this was in the 1500s when everybody believed in God. No, this was at a time when much of the Western world had already turned against God in the intellectual circles and stuff.

And in those circles, Eric. in the circles of academia, he was very open about his faith. And people knew that. And again, I find that, we find that encouraging. Excuse me, sorry. But also, what's so lovely is that at the end of each section, there's a few little points about how we can sort of learn from them as well,

which I think is really helpful in the book. Now, I've noticed there, Eric, you just looked at Holman Hunt. Oh, my word. Holman Hunt, who've painted this, the light of the world. I have seen the original. Have you? I'm sure you have. It's either in Oxford or Cambridge. I always forget which one.

One is in St. Paul's Cathedral and one's in Oxford. Okay. Yeah. This is, well, so this book of 50 Heroes of the Faith, titled Heroes of the Faith, includes all kinds of people and several painters. William Holman Hunt is most familiar. for his painting of Jesus standing at the door and knocking. It's called the light of the world.

And I did have the privilege of seeing the one, not in St. Paul's, but in, did we say Oxford? Oxford, yeah. In Oxford, yeah. And what's lovely about that? That little, that became a bit of a postcard. Yeah. And there was a generation when God used it to help people in their journey of faith.

And that's based on Revelation chapter 3, verse 20. Jesus stands at the door and he knocks. If anyone hears his voice, open the door, let him in. And they had to restore that painting recently, Eric, and they took it down, they had to take the frame off and just do some restoration. And as they took the back off, they didn't, it was not known to them,

that Holman Hunt had written on the back of the painting and he wrote these words, forgive me, Lord, for keeping you waiting. Oh, we'll be back with more. The book is Heroes of the Faith. Jay John and Killey John are my guests. Welcome back. I'm talking to Jay John and his wife, Killy,

and I'm looking at this beautiful book, Heroes of the Faith. Now, people always ask me this question. They say, Eric, where can we get your book? I think, what a dumb question. And yet I'm tempted nonetheless to ask you that question. I assume we can get this in the normal places. Is there a place where you would like us to go if we're going to get the copy of this book? Well, if you're in America, the best place is Amazon.

If you're outside of America, jjohn.com. Not canonjohn.john.com? Well, either all. Really? J.john.com? We just bought it. I love it. I know we've been trying to buy it for ages.

Yeah. He wouldn't sell it to us. Right. But he decided. Jayjohn.com. Sounds better, isn't it? Jjohn.com. I like it.

I like it. Thank you, Eric. J.john.com. Well, I want people to go to jayjohn.com just to discover more of you. I think people can tell how delighted I am that you're here with us in New York, in the studio. But I'm particularly delighted by this book, and I know they can find, they can, they can, They can read more about you at J.john.com. You have, my goodness, Harriet Beatriceau, William Booth, Elizabeth Elliott, the second person in the book I've had the privilege of meeting in person.

Did you? Oh, yeah. Oh. Well, I was very close friends with her brother, Thomas Howard, who is practically my favorite author. My goodness, he is just the greatest. He wrote a book called Chance or The Dance. I interviewed him at Socrates in the city after you and I spoke at Socrates

the city a few years after that. But I met Elizabeth Elliott here in New York and she's of course most famous for her book Through Gates of Splendor which talks about the murder of her missionary husband Jim Elliott in the 1950s but just so many wonderful figures

in this book. And it looks like it's been written in a way that you could use it for homeschooling as well. I hope people will do that. That's what we hope, didn't we kill it? I think it's great for adults but also for children, you know,

who are being particularly homeschooled. I'd imagine that would be fantastic, really. I mean, there's information there. It can be devotional. Oh, even for preachers and pastors, there's lots of stories and quotes. Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously the way it looks, people can't see it,

but I can tell you, folks, that it would be a perfect book for a young person or to use in homeschool. There's no doubt about it. You have in the beginning of the book, the famous Augustine of Hippo. Yes. Hippo being a city in North Africa. So you reach all the way back to the fourth century. Is that the earliest figure historically?

I think it is. Yes. Do you know one of my favorite stories is of this mother, Eric, who brought her son up to be a Christian. And he went off to university and he rebelled. And he not only rebelled, but preached against his family and against his family's faith, and he got into wine, women, and song,

and got involved in all sorts of things. And she just prayed, prayed, prayed, prayed, prayed. Nine years later, so he rejected Christ, nine years later, he had an epiphany. The mother's name, Monica, the son's name, Augustine. I mean, he's one of the most influential Christians, whoever lived. And very important that we know

what history we can about the faith. Because there are a lot of people, of course, they think that the faith leapt from John at Potmos, you know, to Wittenberg, Germany, or to Azusa Street in 1906. They don't understand this beautiful tradition of faith. Absolutely. But I found someone even chronologically earlier

than Augustine of Hippo, the famous John Chrysostom, who was in the fourth century, because Augustine is the fifth century, am I right? Yes, yes. I think. But you know, what's so great about that story about Monica and Augustine?

No, no, I'm wrong. They're both in the fourth century. My apologies to you. But Chrisostom was born just a few years earlier than Augustine. What I'm encouraged about that story about Monica and Augustine is that if anyone tuned in now who's got a problem, prodigal. Yeah.

Don't despair. Yeah. Just keep loving, keep faithful. Yeah. And there's that verse in Romans, as much as it lies within you keep the peace. And let's just pray that the prodigals will remember, return, and rejoice. Well, it's not biblical to badger someone into the kingdom of God. And I think oftentimes parents are tempted to do.

We're all tempted to do that, but parents particularly are tempted to do that. And it's difficult to keep one's mouth shut, but sometimes that's exactly what the Lord's plan would be for us and evangelizing those we love. I'm just delighted flipping through this book because it's so beautiful. You also have George Mueller. Talk a minute about George Mueller. Go on, Killy.

So he was from the UK as well, down in Bristol, in the southwest of England and he just had the most amazing faith so there's a great story because he set up orphanages for children and there's a great story about where they had no breakfast and so basically he said to the children

let's all just pray before the food arrives so they all prayed and literally there was a knock on the door and the milk man had broken down He had like a wagon or something. And he said, you need to take all my milk. So they have milk. And then they got bread from somewhere else.

And he was totally, lived totally by faith. And just prayed about everything, didn't he? He did. He did. And Winkley said he lived totally by faith. He did. He ran, I mean, there must be 10,000 orphans that he looked after. And he never asked anyone for any money he trusted.

God. This is an important book. I am really delighted to see it and delighted to have both of you here. I'm glad that you come to New York once in a while. Thank you.

It's the only thing keeping me here, Albin. I just want you to know. So, Canon J.john.J.com and Kili, thank you so much. And congratulations on Heroes of the Faith. Magnificent. House gets lonely. I guess every form of refuge has its price.

It breaks her heart to think her love is only. Folks, I continue talking with Todd Chapman, who's with the CSI, Christian Solidarity International, enabling us to participate in freeing slaves. in Sudan. It's just an amazing thing. Now, Todd, let me ask you, clarify, because there's some people think, like,

oh, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to help the slave trade by giving money because that makes slaves more value. Explain how that's not the case. And I want to be clear about that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So the slaves that were freeing in Sudan,

they've actually been, they were, you know, they were taken captive, many of them, most of them women and children. They were taken captive when they were children. Now decades later, They're women. They've had children in captivity, but they were taken during a time of religious strife in that country. All of that has ended.

The act of taking of slavery has been abolished years ago. But when that happened, what didn't happen was there was no provision made in that legislation in those negotiations to actually free the more than 100,000 people that had been taken captive. And so those are the people that CSI's been working to free in the intervening years. And every year, we're able to free thanks to generous folks like you, upwards of 1,500 slaves who have again spent decades living just absolutely horrendous lives in captivity. I mean, they're beaten, they're abused, they're forced to convert from Christianity to Islam, rape, all sorts of unspeakable abuse. They've had children in captivity. But every year,

we identify, we negotiate the freedom for these slaves. No cash is involved. Many of these slave owners are actually cattle ranchers and were able to barter a cattle vaccine that they desperately need in exchange for freeing these slaves. And then we bring them back from North Sudan to South Sudan. There's a great reunion celebration, big feast, dancing, music, all the beautiful things. Whenever possible, we reunite them with their family, get them back to their home village. It really is a big homecoming. But Eric, you're right.

I mean, this is not an ongoing problem in Sudan. We're just trying to free people that, again, have been held captive now for decades. And there's, we've freed more than 100,000 people, but there's tens of thousands more. And so your generous gift right now will allow us to free even more of these precious people. And to put it negatively, if you give nothing, they will stay enslaved. So this is an opportunity, folks. There's a finite number of human beings currently enslaved. CSI has made it possible to free them now.

There's not a ongoing slave trade. So the number is finite. We can get it down to zero. You who are listening can get this down to zero. So the key is to get everyone who listens to this program to participate. Folks, I want to say it again. It doesn't matter what you give. As long as you give something, it adds up.

So I want to invite you, go to our website, Metaxus Talk, dot com. Right at the top of the page, you'll see metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner. You can do whatever you like. But this is a magnificent opportunity. We've just got days left in the campaign. If you haven't done it, there's still an opportunity to do this. Next month, we're not talking about this. So I'm just begging you to get serious today. If you'd like to call, Some of you can do that more easily. The number is 888, obviously toll-free, 888-253-3522. 8-88-253-3522.

There are folks out there who can give a lot of money, it can free a lot of slaves. I want to encourage you, whoever you are, wherever you are at whatever level you're able to participate, This is a sacred opportunity. It does not get clearer and simpler than this opportunity. CSI has teed up, but we need you to step up. So please go to Metaxistalk.com or call the number 888-253-3522.

And Todd Chapman, thank you for what you're doing. God bless you. Thank you, Eric. God bless you.