The Eric Metaxas Show - Kim Owens

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Kim Owens has an update on revival in her church, Fresh Start in Peoria, Arizona, and what this might mean for a positive change throughout the country.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. A taxes show with your host, Eric Metaxis. Folks, it's the Eric Mataxis show. Don't forget to go to Ericmataxis.com and sign up for the newsletter so you can get the video of these wonderful interviews that I have the privilege of conducting. We're talking to Dwight Chapin, who's the author of the president's man, the memoirs of

Nixon's trusted aid, and Dwight, just to reprise things, you were an extremely young man in your 20s when you served Nixon in the White House. In this book, you go into all of those details and the stories. But I was just asking you about current events. And you were reflecting on how the presidency has changed and how Nixon, obviously, of an older school, was willing to be less a friend of the people and to kind of, it's an interesting thing. I think this has to do with the advent of the media and social media. It's very difficult for someone, like a Trump, for example, to maintain that distance, that Twitter gave him immediate access, and that has an upside and a downside.

Yes. Nixon's focused and thought about how do you lead? I mean, this was something he studied. I mean, and let's take Vietnam for an example. With the Vietnam War, I forget the exact number. But he went on national television like seven times, had maps, had arrows. He took the public along with him.

That's why when, I mean, he was elected into office in 1968, and he won an overwhelming majority. He won everything except Massachusetts and the District of Columbia in 19702. Because we have to be clear, McGovern was from Massachusetts. So the idea that liberal Massachusetts, with its representative, running against Nixon was the only place besides D.C. I mean, you talk about a landslide. But what he did is he kept the public with him.

When he came into office, there were 510,000 troops in Vietnam. When he resigned and left, it was down to, I think, 9, or 10,000, and the war was almost over, as you know. But he had this plan. and he had to keep the public with him. And he's doing that by going over the heads of the media by using nighttime television appearances. Keep in mind we only had ABC, CBS, and NBC.

But the difference, Dwight, of course, is that in those days, when the president of the United States said to the network heads, I want to speak to the American people, they gave him that opportunity. There was what I would call a much more positive sense of patriotism in order to have that accomplished. With the advent of all of these channels of distribution, we now have the networks, the prime networks being entertainment media. And if a president goes on, he's on the cable shows, which is only a fraction of trying to bring the country along.

Let me give you another example. When Nixon announced his cabinet to the country, Nixon didn't do it, you know, have some potential cabinet officer come in and then they went out to the press and Nixon announced it one after the other. What he did is he held them all in confidence. Nobody knew. And so what he did is he went on national television and he had all of these cabinet officers seated around on rise,

actually on a riser type thing. And then he went and he got behind each one of them. And he explained to the American public why he had picked each one of these cabinet officers. And this was in 69? This is 69, right when he picked it, or it could have been late 68, right when he had picked his cabinet. But the important part there was he wanted the American public to know the qualifications and how good all of these people were. I mean, you know, governors Volpe, Governor Romney, he had exceptional people, George Schultz, I mean, on and on and on.

And so he's going around and explaining that this is his case. And what does that? I believe the number is 55% of the, I have it in my book, 55% of the nation watched that night. I mean, it is extraordinary statecraft and leadership. And again, we forget, I mean, he was from another era. And it is, it's lamentable the way things have gone today. And of course, I think it is, it is Woodward and Burr.

that led the way in creating this narrative that the press is against the president or if the president is conservative, let's say, or Republican, and that that really was corrosive over the decades. And so that now you have a situation where effectively the New York Times is dead, whatever they were, even when they published the Pentagon Papers, they were, it struck me trying to do the work of journalists. Today, I simply think that's not the case. In order to understand what happened in Watergate, you have to understand Nixon's mind. And when Nixon was a young man and he fought the Hiss battle of the hiss being a communist that was in the State Department and Nixon taking all of that on, and then he runs against

Helen Cahagen Douglas, who was a very famous liberal for the Senate out in California. Then he gets picked to be vice president and Eisenhower uses Nixon for all of the political stuff. And you have Herblock doing his cartoons. You have the establishment people now. Nixon is the battery ram.

He's the straw enemy. And that continues right on up. And so finally you see the real Nixon at the press conference where he lost to Pat Brown in California. And he says, you don't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore. I'm out of here. You're not

have me to kick around. I have this all in my book. And then he starts this comeback. And he comes back and he has these successes. And he has the success of going to China. He is riding so high that when the chance for the Democrats to come back off of this Watergate thing and then you have the manipulation by John Dean, and then you have all of the newspapers kicking in. And then you have all of the newspapers kicking in as well as television and they had never had the economic bonanza that they had in terms of selling papers and viewership and everything and it the whole idea was to level Nixon and they had to bring him down he was he got too too far up there and there there is another strain in this whole thing which is the Kennedy machine because there was a huge

attempt to get ready to rehabilitate Ted Kennedy who had gone through the Chappaquatic event. And there were 31 prosecutors. Most of them had either worked for Bobby Kennedy or came out of the Harvard Law School. 31 Democratic prosecutors in Archibald Cox, and they were the ones that came after Nixon. And the name of the game was to bring Richard Nixon down. This is going back to the deep state at one of its earliest times. There's no question about it. And that's what's so fascinating is that you see these things only clearly in retrospect. But where we are now, of course, very different.

But what you've written in your book, I think dramatically informs where we are now. We don't know what the future holds. but I'm at least grateful to you for having written this book. I could talk to you for hours, and I'm sorry that we don't have the time. Maybe we can just have you back to keep talking, since I know that you don't live too far from here. Okay, so the president's man is the book, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid. The book is just out, is it not? It comes out, February 15.

It comes out. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a brand new book. I hold a copy in my hands. Dwight Chapin, congratulations on a monument. mental effort, the president's man, the memoirs of Nixon's trusted aid, and thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Eric. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete

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Welcome to the program. Thank you. Thank you. Such an honor to be with you. Well, you're very kind. You and your husband have been pastors of a church right outside Phoenix for some time. How long have you been in that area? Right at 25 years.

25 years. That's a long time. I've been married 25 years. It's kind of suddenly you realize, holy guacamole. 25 years? What happened? That's incredible. Now, did you grow up as a believer?

Is this something that happened? I'm always curious about people's stories, how they get to be where they are. Yes. No, I grew up in church, Eric, and my husband did as well. And we grew up in the faith, knowing Jesus is our Lord and Savior. And we have a great, great heritage. My parents and family, I'm a third-generational Christian and preacher and just and pastor and ministry. So broad shoulders to stand on.

So yes, I was raised in church. And I think the question, whenever people talk about revival, right, because this is called doorkeepers of revival, birthing, building, and sustaining revival, people always want to know what do we mean by revival? Because a lot of times we all know this, right? Somebody says like, hey, we're going to have revival down. We're setting up a tent and we're having revival meetings.

And you think, what does that mean? It's confusing. I feel like it's people using it as like a selling point. Because revival, obviously, is when the spirit, of God moves and stuff happens and people realize, wow, God is doing something. So when you talk about it, what do you mean by it? Yeah, that's very accurate. Sometimes we just use the word just kind of as a pulling point. But, you know, we have reference points, great reference points of past revivals that we can look to as standards and as criterion. And God wants to do that and he wants

to do even greater than that. But as far as we're concerned, first of all, just say there's many accurate definitions of revival, and I believe all of them are probably valid. What we have said here, Eric, is, and what the mandate and the assignment that we feel like the Lord has given us is to birth, build, and sustained revival, revival being the manifested presence and power of God that is sustained. What we have seen in history is that revival has come and they go. There are outpourings. There are outpourings of the Spirit, outpourings of God, outpourings of the Holy Spirit that come. And, you know, they may last weeks, they may last a few months, maybe in a few years. But what the, the burden of the Lord that we have here is that once that revival is birth,

once the presence and the power of God is birthed and being manifested, what can we do to keep the fire burning on the altar of our hearts personally? and then of course corporately as we come together as a church or as churches. What can we do? How can we raise the spiritual bar so that our spiritual pursuit continually pulls on the manifested presence of power of God? And here's the rest of the definition, if you will, that results in transformation. Because that is the test.

The presence and the power of God, when it is manifested in a personal life, in a corporate atmosphere, no matter where that may be, It should result in transformation. That's our, I guess, our measuring point there. It's going to have some impact in the atmosphere. It's going to have some impact in our hearts, in our lives, in our lifestyles. Because, yes, it's changed lives, but it's also changed lifestyles. We make total terms in our life.

And so that's really what we believe that revival is the, and I believe this definition is encompassed in many other definitions as well. We're just saying it may be differently, but our mandate is sustain that. How can we keep that fire burning in Leviticus? And then, you know, we see on the day of Pentecost as the Holy Spirit was poured out, it manifested in like as a tongues of fire. You know, how can we keep that fire burning in our heart so that we're continually burning at a passionate and a zealius level for the Lord that literally pulls on the manifested

presence of God that results in transformation? And I believe ultimately, reformation as well. Yeah, and that's important. It's interesting because, as you know, probably better than I do, but there's so many different strands and brands of the Christian faith, and there are many that they really disdain anything that looks like emotionalism. And sometimes the presence of God either looks like emotionalism or can be mixed in with emotionalism.

We've all been in churches where some people are experiencing God's presence, which is a mystery. I mean, that's a whole conversation. How do you know? But you're experiencing God's presence. And other people are just kind of acting out emotionally, what we Christian say, it's in the flesh. I remember my wife and I met at David Wilkerson's church,

Times Square Church, in New York City. And he was almost overzealous in crimping down any kind of emotionalism. He said, we're not going to have any flesh in this church, you know? And I always was kind of like, Pastor Dave, I think that was the Holy Spirit. I think it was, but he was so afraid of emotionalism, of fleshly exhibition. So how do you deal with that? Because you know that wounded people are often attracted to certain kinds of churches.

And just how do you deal with that pastorally? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Well, I think that it's absolutely accurate, that there actually anything can get into the flesh, whether it's emotionalism or actually even just being stoic can be in the flesh. You know what I'm saying? We're not responding to biblical worship and biblical praise and worship. Because there is a protocol of biblical praise and worship and pursuit of the Lord. And many times what you see in the Old Testament in the New Testament is you see people that are really,

I mean, just so hungry for God, for Jesus. They are very emotional. And I'm not, I'm not disagreeing that with you or with anyone else that it can get in the flesh. But here's kind of how we handle it, is that a lot of times religion and religion has, religion or religiosity has been described as form without power. In other words, religion reasons away the power of God and the supernatural of God. And so one of the ways that we tend to do that is we tend to try to pull back on our flesh, on our human emotions, but God's a very emotional God.

You read the Bible from beginning to end. It's full of emotion and passion and zeal. And so kind of what we, the way we relay it to people is I'm going to, and this may be hard for some people to grasp, but I'm going to force my flesh to do what I know my spirit wants, how my spirit wants to respond to God. So that doesn't mean I'm going to go point the spotlight on me. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to do something that's going to point the spotlight on me.

But at the same time, I don't want to back off so much that I get into a religious mindset that's going to quench the spirit that's going to reason away the power of God, knowing that the Bible fully gives promises or gives promises that I can fully pull on the supernatural realms of glory and they manifest in my life. So how do we balance that? I think for us, the type of church that we are, we allow some things. And if it gets out of hand that we know that it is, quote, in the flesh, we have ways of handling that. But at the same time, we're not going to, and we don't handle it publicly unless it's, you know, necessary.

But we have, we're going to allow people to express themselves biblically in their worship and their praise and they're seeking God. And, you know, we may or may not want to go into that today. but, I mean, it's in the Word of God how we're to pursue him. And the fact of it is is that a lot of those are outward fleshly manifestations. You know what I'm saying? Or physical, I guess you would say, engaging with God. The lifting of the hands, the clapping of the hands, the shouting, the bowing, the weeping, you know, saying these kinds of things.

Yeah, those are not fleshly, but they are physical. And that's, I just, I'm fascinated with this stuff because I've been to so many different kinds of churches. And of course, there are churches where they almost have, I mean, look, we all do. it, right? To some extent, we're going to make God in our image. That's the temptation. And so some people have this very dignified view of God. They say God is, God is holy. And what that means to them is, it never gets out of order. I will never be emotional. And you think, well, that's a nice idea. But what if God gets emotional? Are you blocking him out because that offends your dignity? Is it your dignity, or is it God's dignity? And of course, we think of David dancing before the Ark.

And is it Mikhail? I can't remember his, Michael, is sort of bothered by it. Doesn't like to see him dancing and whatever. And we have to recognize that in ourselves. Is what bothers you really God? Or is it you? Is it God trying to challenge you? And I know that there are folks listening to this program that they just, they don't move in, in this kind of stuff. And I think that sometimes when they're exposed to it, they go, huh, you know what? Those people aren't crazy. I would love to go to a church where they seem to be actually enjoying themselves. It's not a dull religious duty. And I know that you and your husband pastor that kind of a church. Well, I think if I can just interject this, Eric, I think what I would say to people that may be in that

frame of mind, seek God, literally, I mean pursue with all of your heart. Whatever faith, whatever I'm talking about, you know, in Christian faith, type or style or or, you know, denomination or name or label that you have, seek Jesus, pursue him passionately and see what happens, you know? We're going to go to a break. I want to follow up right from there. Folks, don't go away. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise.

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They're also calling it the Holy Grail of business podcasts. So subscribe to IP frequently and stay up to date on their weekly stream of episodes. Wherever you get your podcasts, go to IPP, frequently.com. That's the letter I, the letter P frequently.com. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Pastor Kim Owens, Sheen, her husband, pastor at church in Peoria, Arizona. Arizona. The other Peoria, there's two, I guess. There's at least two. You were just talking about this idea of pressing in to God's presence and praying. And again, for a lot of people, they don't come from that kind of style. They're very quiet about it.

So what do you mean by that? Well, you know, Eric, we've been conditioned through different ebbs and flows of the church throughout time to go to church. And many times we go to church, but we don't encounter God. And I don't even want to keep it in a corporate setting, even in our personal lives. It's just like if I go to church or if I do this or do that, then this is Christianity. And those are a part of it, a very vital part of it. but the foundation of Christianity, the foundation of why we're in this is to know God and to encounter God, even Jacob in the beginning in Genesis.

And then you go to the woman that bowed at Jesus' feet to wash his feet. You know what I'm saying? These encounters, and there's many, many encounters between Jacob and that woman that washed Jesus' feet. both of those were God encounters, Holy Spirit encounters, that radically altered their lives. And so if we're only conditioned, if we think our Christianity is only about just going to church and doing the proper things, it's very easy to become religious. And we accept just this form of something, but we deny the power of it.

And when you deny the power of something, what you're doing is you're rationalizing in your reasoning, in your mind, and in your person that this is, this is what God is, kind of like you said a moment ago, making God in our image or who we think he is and what he should be. When God says, if you will, Jesus says, if you will just seek me, if you will just pursue me, just just pursue me, just cry out to me. Around here at Fresh Start, we call it a raw cry. A raw cry is unrehearsed, it's uninhibited, it's not religious, it's not performed, It is literally like Barnamaeus, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me to where literally

people are telling, be quiet, be quiet, be quiet, but he would not be quiet. That's what I challenge people who are watching or listening today. Cry out and see what God does, because here's the fact is that if when we do that, I promise, if it's from the heart, that raw cry will pull on a sovereign God. and that pull will trigger a sovereign God as it has done in revival history of past to pour out a supernatural. And here's the fact. When the supernatural touches the natural, we have no control over how we're going to respond, how we're going to act, react, respond to it.

So, of course, this is in my opinion, but also in my experience, that's not something that you can argue with. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying anybody's trying to argue or anything. I'm just saying if you will just give a simple raw cry to God, to Jesus and just say, I know there's more and I want more. I know there's more than just going to church. Don't get me wrong. We are big advocates on going to church and having a church home.

Big, big, big. But at the same time, there's more. There's a personal, like, impactful encounter. Well, listen, Kim, I just want to say there's no doubt about this. And the fact of the matter is, I have only. recently in the last few years really noticed that if you have had miraculous experiences with God, it changes things. You can't, it's no longer an intellectual construct. It's no longer merely theological. I really believe if you have encountered God miraculously as a person somehow,

because there's so many different ways that can happen, it just changes you forever. I mean, I came to faith with the Lord speaking to me in a dream and it was gained. over. I went to sleep, wondering if you could really know God, woke up knowing him. And even if you can't explain it, you're just different. You're struggling for words, but the point is you know. And I really think that people need to understand that experiencing God miraculously, and when I say miraculously, and anything that's supernatural, whether God speaks to you quietly or loudly or performs a huge miracle or a small miracle, when you know that was God, it changes. everything and you're going to be emotional.

You're going to be a passion is ignited. And I just want to say to people, we ought to hunger for that. Biblically, that is what God calls us to a relationship that is real. And it doesn't mean it can happen every minute and that you're going to be in this emotional tizzy every second. But the fact of the matter is that's the baseline. And when you have had an encounter with God of any kind like that, you can't go back. You can't pretend it didn't happen.

and you can't pretend, well, it was just the way I used to think because it's real. And I do think there are a lot of people going to churches where that expectation is not even introduced. They're not even, they just think, well, that happens to other people. But God wants it to happen to every one of us. And if you're really shy and you don't want it to happen in front of other people, well, that's fine. It can happen alone in your car. But God wants you to have a real, raw relationship with him where you don't, you can't, you can't bat it away as like, well, this is this kind of intellectual thing and I've changed my mind.

If you meet somebody, you can't change your mind about whether you met them. You know they're real. So I just want to say that because I think it's very important. A lot of people do not have the expectation that that's who God is and that's who God wants, you know, me to encounter. Right, right. Revival sets that expectation. So when you birth that revival, when you birth that revival, when you birth that measure of God's presence, it continually raises that standard. And I believe, Eric, this is what is missing in a lot of churches, whatever camp, whatever circle, whatever denominations, missing a lot of churches in a lot of Christians' lives, is that we've settled for a spiritual bar, if you will, a spiritual level, a spiritual, you know, reference point. And no one has ever challenged us, us, them to raise the bar.

When we come back, I want to ask you more about that. Folks, I'm talking to Kim Owens, the author of Doorkeepers of Revival. Hey, folks, if you listen to this program, of course, you've heard me talk at infinitum about my pillow and my friend Mike Lindell. Well, Mike has just announced that you will receive one of his books, and the book is Next Level Insane. It is called What Are the Odds from Crack Addict to CEO? It's his story.

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such as individual towels, blankets, comforters, and much more. Or call 800-9-78-37-th. That's 800-9-7-8-3057. To use the promo code, Eric. Welcome back. I'm talking to Kim Owens, the author of Doorkeepers of Revival, birthing, building, and sustaining revival. Kim, I know that miracles are normal in the Christian life.

Some people hear from God every hour or every day. other people it's rare. For me, it's been rare, but there is no question that I have experienced God many, many times. And I always want to say to people like, that's the normal Christian life. You should be expecting relationship with God like that. And I assume that you and your husband have experienced that over the years where you know God said something or God did something. Can you talk about that because they're people listening that they say they're Christians, but they've not experienced the miraculous. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Well, you know, God speaks to us in several ways. The primary way is that inward witness. Some people have heard audible voices. You mentioned a moment ago that you had a dream. God spoke to, you know, just an encounter dream. God speaks to us through circumstances, through situations. Obviously, one of the number one ways, if not the number one ways, he speaks to us through his written word.

But he can also speak to, obviously, anything that has spoken to us, whether it be audible, inward witness or whatever. I mean, it got to line up with the word of God. You know, that's the ultimate thing. But many times the promptings and the miraculous leading of the Holy Spirit, the leading of the voice of God, is in our inward witness. How do we hear that? How do we amplify that?

We must build ourselves up in the Lord. We do that by increasing our faith. how do we increase our faith by reading and hearing the word of God, by spending time in the presence of God. It's like, you know, you're going to get to know someone better. You spend more time with them, right? So I'm going to spend more time with the Lord so I get more acquainted to his voice and more more sensitive to his promptings. The Holy Spirit is a prompter. He's a comforter.

He's a teacher. He's a guide. The Bible says all of that. A counselor. and many times when he speaks, anytime he speaks, it's miraculous. But we have to cultivate that in our life. For us, for me and my husband,

for the revivalist and the believers here at Fresh Start Church, we have tried to create Eric and continue to a culture of prayer and intercession in our lives and in our midst, becoming a house of prayer as a corporate setting and then individually. By doing that, You're building an atmosphere so that you're not just getting the visitations of God, but a habitation of God. So you're dwelling with Him. You know what I'm saying?

You're dwelling. He's dwelling with you. The miracles, whether it be emotional, mental, physical, spiritual miracles that can manifest take place in those atmospheres. Atmospheric is everything. The atmosphere of our personal minds, the atmosphere of our heart. homes, the atmosphere of our churches. It's everything. We must bring down, if I can say it like this, the realms of his glory, the manifestation of who he is. And it's in that atmosphere that the miraculous can come forth. You know, I think you may be talking about the leading of the Lord,

but it can happen, body, soul, and spirit. Absolutely. So that's kind of it in a nutshell, how you have to cultivate that atmosphere to see the miracles manifest. Yeah. And I, I want to say to people who are, you know what I think happens? I think they're people who, they, they, maybe they know there's a demonic realm, and they're afraid that if they open themselves up at all, what if it's this, what if it's that? And so they just avoid it all together. And you said it really clearly, if you are reading the Bible and understand that God will never say anything or do anything that's not in accordance with the scripture, that's the baseline, folks. If you want to know an angel told me to go do this, well, if you want to know if that was God's angel or not, it has to line up with what the Bible says.

And the fact of the matter is that the people who know the Bible best, in my opinion, are folks who move in the miraculous, because this is the handbook. And so it really is important to say that because I think there are some people, they act as though I have a choice. Either I can major in the Bible or I can major in experiences. And I think, are you kidding me? It's supposed to be both. One without the other is pretty dead. And God is looking to lead you, not to deceive you. But it's beautiful that you talk about that atmosphere as well.

Hanging around people, the body of Christ, where people live this way, a life of prayer and intercession and fasting. It's what the Lord put us on this earth to do. This is the whole reason we're here. and if you want to know what you're supposed to be doing in your life, that's the first answer, and then he will lead you through that. That's wonderful. So how long has your church been where it is now in Arizona?

The actual church itself, yeah, the church has been in existence for almost 50 years, actually. My husband and I are the second pastors. The founding pastors were here about 20 years. So the church itself has been in existence almost that long. So we have been here 25 of those years. Yes. In sustained revival, we are in our seventh year, as I have described it on your broadcast. And that's, I mean, that is just beautiful.

I know that when you have revival, it means people are coming to faith who weren't part of that. And when you see that, it increases your desire to pray. And it's just, it's so, it's so encouraging. I know there's so many people listening right now. Maybe they just, they need encouragement. Maybe their walk with God is dry. and I want to say to them, folks, God doesn't want it to be that way. He wants to have a living, vibrant relationship with you.

We've just got about a minute left. Kim, what will people find in the book, Doorkeepers of Revival, to encourage them? You know, I wrote Doorkeepers of Revival to help lead Christians and to help lead leaders and pastors into the more. We talk about, we say that a lot around here, there is more. There's always more of God. There's always more that you can pull on and experiencing God. And so they're going to, I talk about spiritual pursuit. I talk about encounter. I talk about prayer.

I talk about a little bit about fasting. And there it's not a book on fasting, but talk a little bit about that. I talk a lot about our corporate structures and things in our churches, how we can better facilitate birth build and sustain the presence of God in an ongoing basis, obviously. And so that's what they're, and how to continually dig wells, spiritual wells, personal as well as corporate wells, keep that revival going. And I know that I know, Eric, that if they give this all of their heart and all of their soul and all their mind, that they will see transformation. And that's one of the things that I just want to make sure that I say before we close is that we have seen so many transform lives here and are continuing to see it at Fresh Start. We're seeing drug addicts set free. We're seeing homosexuals,

lesbians set free that are now serving in our church. We're seeing just people that are desperate. We're seeing marriages healed. Families put back together. Hopeless lives being changed. That is what is all about. And I'm glad we're ending on that because that is exactly what it's all about. Kim Owens, God bless you.

Congratulations on the church and on the book Doorkeepers of Revival. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. Thank you so much. Hey there, folks. Welcome back. Before we go away, we just want to say, I want to say, Turner Classic Movies is not a sponsor on this program, but they usually have such

good films on that that's almost the first place I go if I turn the TV on because a lot of the older films have biblical values. It's really astonishing how much you can learn about life simply from watching old movies. And the other night, it was it last night, Suzanne and I watched Red River. Oh my goodness. It is one of these signature films directed by Howard Hawks starring the great John Wayne. And it's a pretty dark role for John Wayne. And he, anyway, he plays somebody who is driving cattle all the way from Texas, taking for the first time the Chisholm Trail, the now famous Chisholm Trail. But Walter Brennan, is in it. Walter Brennan, one of the great character actors who've ever existed. The whole film,

though, I kept thinking, this is about character. This is about right and wrong. And this was a Hollywood film, a gigantic hit. And I think it was 1947 when it came out, but just spectacular. And I want to encourage people in your spare time, feed your mind with good things. The Bible says to us, you know, whatsoever things are good, whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are of good report, whatsoever things are. We're supposed to think on things that are good and true and beautiful. And I really do think that, listen, there's a lot of junk on Turner Classic movies, but most of the time, there's some good stuff.

And you can live in the past in a good way sometimes by watching Turner Classic movies. But Red River was just so wonderful. I thought also what it talked about without talking about it is what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a man? That's not the kind of thing we talk about much in this day and age. And so I was just, I just said I have to share that because there's certain older films that are well worth our time. Okay, before we go, Alvin. Yeah, I just want to say to be a man today, it's either Eric or me.

And that's about it. Yes, we're the only men that I know of. And Chris Himes, Chris Himes as well. Yeah, sometimes, sometimes. I don't even know about Chris. But no, but it is interesting, though, that some of those older films, they're just beautiful. And so Turner Classic movies often, you know, you have to be a little careful, but they often are just fantastic. I spoke this past week about a film that I saw.

I think it's on Hulu called Mr. Jones, which is a, it's a dark film. It's not a film for kids, but I'll tell you, it's an amazing film by the director of Nieska Holland. And it really is about telling the truth and about courage. So there's some good stuff out there. And I think we want to patronize the good stuff when we can, where we can. I should mention, folks, if you haven't yet signed up for my newsletter, and if you haven't signed up your relatives and friends and neighbors, we don't get any money out of this, ladies and gentlemen. and this is just a way to communicate with you since YouTube shut us down. I want to encourage you, go to Eric Mataxis.com, sign up your friends.

They can get off if they don't like it. But I think that they're going to, we just share a lot of great interviews like the ones we're doing today, the ones we do every week. We share them that way so that you can share them. So I want to encourage you to go to erikmetaxis.com. If you click on the speakers thing, it tells you where I'm going to be. I will be shortly in old, is it Old River, New Jersey? I think it's Old River, New Jersey. Tom's River?

No, no, no, it's Old River, New Jersey. And then I'll be in Phoenix, Arizona, all the way to Tacoma, Philadelphia, Atlanta, L.A. Anyway, something like that. I'm getting around. I've been everywhere, man. I've been everywhere, man. Cross the Desert Sandman. I breathe a mountain air, man.

Something like that. Go to Eric Mataxis. dot com and you'll see