The Eric Metaxas Show - Launce Wallnau

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

Launce Wallnau, who saw Trump's presidency as a type of King Cyrus from the Bible, has a new book, "God's Chaos President," which contains fresh insights (and warnings) about the upcoming election. (Encore Presentation)

show. I shouldn't tell you this, but Eric hired someone who sounds just like him to host today's show. But since I'm the announcer, they told me. So I am telling you, don't be fooled. The real Eric's in jail. And welcome. Hey there, folks. This is the Eric Mitraxas show. It's the show about everything, which means I get to interview a wide array of guests, some of whom I actually enjoy speaking with. Those are my favorites. Today, we have someone named Lance Wall Now. I actually know Lance and like him. So this should be a fun conversation. Lance Wallnau, welcome to the show. It's so good to see you later. Good to see you. It's, uh, uh, you're, you have a new book called God's Chaos President.

Yeah. I assume you're referring to, uh, Martin Van Buren. Well, we're going to, we'll cover that in a minute. But, um, you Lance Wallnau, we were together recently, uh, in, in California. And I realized when you get going, when you're giving a talk and you get going, you sound more and more like Jackie Mason. Are you aware of that? It's an, it's an, it's an, I'm sorry, I didn't notice that, but I've been told that. You start doing the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, rhythms and, and, and, you know, but listen, I was born in Long Island, and, and, and I actually, I remember, I was saying, Lord, I think as I get older, I sound more like my dad, who was half Jewish. I said, I'm sounding more Jewish all the time. And I actually went to lunch at

Manhattan, and I was asking the Lord, is this okay? And guess who I'm sitting right in front of is Jackie Mason? And I looked at him and I said, you know what? Maybe this is my destiny. Some people become famous evangelists. Maybe I'm just going to become, you know, more Jewish and comedic before I'm done. Jewish, you worship a Jewish rabbi. You know, Jackie Mason was supposed to become a rabbi. Did you know that? Oh, and his brothers are rabbis. Yes. Anyway, we're getting off topic, but this is always my goal to get off topic before I've even begun.

Forgive me, ladies and gentlemen. I need to introduce you, Lance Woll now, at least somewhat properly. You're a best-selling author. A lot of people are familiar with you. A lot of times I have folks on my program that the people who know who you are, they go like, wow, I can't believe you got such a lot of people. and such. And then there are other people say, who is that? And I know that there are many people that don't know you, and I'm actually excited to introduce you to those people. But you've

written many books. You describe yourself as a strategist, a futurist, and you are, what is the term, I guess? It's like you're a consultant, you know, you're kind of, you kind of, when you give your talks, you're helping people see things that they may. may not see. And it's not always based around faith or politics, but that's the context in which I know you. So let's just leap into the book. Your book has a subtitle. It's called God's Chaos President, the ancient code that reveals America's future and the destiny of nations. What do you mean by that? Well, you know, it's hard to imagine something like the United States not being in history, especially when you have all of this end-time apocalyptic developments going on.

I mean, you've got characteristics like Donald Trump in office. What happened for me was around 2015, I actually began to get a strong sense of what was coming in America. And, you know, we got people in the Pentecostal and charismatic niche of the world, which are called profits. And I never saw myself there because I was a consultant. Then I realized Donald Trump is going to be president. And I started hearing things.

And I thought, I better write him down. and just get them committed. So in 2015, I wrote them. Hold on. When you say I started hearing things, do you mean gossip or do you mean revelation from God? What are you talking about? Well, this is the strange thing. Anyone as a Christian knows that they've heard God's voice, but usually it's in retrospect.

It's like, how did you get to say, if you're a Christian, you've got born again, you had to have heard God's voice to even begin relating to the Lord. So I started to hear. When I say here, I mean, I would hear a word, actually, coming almost like a ticker tape into my head. Now, this isn't something I normally do. So I at first was very suspicious. And I heard Donald Trump is a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness. And I thought, where the heck did that come from?

Okay, so see, this is why I want to get my audience context on who you are. Let's just for a second, what were you doing 30 years ago? I was in Babylon, New York. I was a consultant in the oil industry. And so I was working there. We had a company in the New York Stock Exchange, and I was a corporate consultant. At what point in your history did Christian faith become a part of your life? Well, two, two points. One, I didn't grow up a secular Jew. I grew up an Episcopalian. And so my dad had hidden the Jewish background our entire life. And he never wanted any of us to know about it. So I'm at a full gospel business meeting. So I'm going to them and all these guys are singing their songs. And a fellow was on the platform who was a minister, who was a Jewish minister, a messianic Jew. And he comes off the platform. He says, young man, God's going to use you to reach your people.

And I said, Episcopalians. And he says, Jews. I go, why would I reach Jews? He goes, why don't you call your father right now and ask him? So I called my dad. I said, dad, you know, I'm hanging out with these exciting Pentecostal people. I'm at a business meeting. He says, I'm going to be used to reach my people, the Jews.

And right away, he goes, what's his name? Who is he? Where is he from? He thought maybe he was a kid in the, you know, he grew up with as outing him. I said, believe me, you don't know who these people are. So he says to me, I'll tell you what, don't mention this to your brother. It's funny, I'm talking to you about this family business right now. But he goes, don't mention it to any of your brothers. If you come home, we'll discuss it.

I came home and he shows me the family tree. Okay, so we have rabbis. My father was Jewish. You're an adult before you even know you're a Jew. No, but then I started thinking about it. I was dating a Jewish girl. My best friends were all Jewish. I was in the, everybody I was with was Jewish, and I was the only Gentile among them.

I thought I was a diversity quota or something. But I still can't believe that. So you are an adult, and you don't know that you're a Jew until a messianic rabbi gives you a, what do we call it, a word of knowledge? So you're launched on this. this path, but you don't move in the kind of circles like where we were this past weekend, where there's some people for whom hearing from God and prophecy and all this stuff, it's absolutely normal. In the Episcopal Church, in many Reformed Evangelical churches, they look at you like you got three heads. So you're telling me that in 2015, you are actually suddenly now

hearing certain things, and you just quoted one, like you said, like a ticker tape, comes through your head. Donald Trump is, what do you say? And I have, and to be honest with you, rather than being an enthusiast, Eric, and going, oh, boy, I'm hearing. I actually got concerned. I thought, you know what the Bible says? Test the spirits to see whether they are of God. So if you're really a biblical person, you're not running around trying to look for voices. You're actually testing and discerning what's coming there. So I sat down and I said, I'm not going to say anything about this. And but then the cadence came back again.

And I was sitting there watching one of the debates, and I had this joy in my spirit. And I thought, why do I have joy? This guy. And I realized that, and this sounds a little strange, but maybe you could translate this to your audience. The Bible says that deep calls into deep. Sometimes you know things in your heart that you don't understand with your head. But it's like a woman's intuition. I didn't trust that man.

I knew all along he was a sheister. So some people had that intuition. Well, that intuition could be in you. I intuitive that Donald Trump was going to be the next president at a time when nobody thought he would be. And then I heard that ticker tape again. And it was, the next president of the United States will be on Isaiah 45 president. Now I'm really nervous because now I'm being misled with specificity. This isn't just a general thing.

I'm getting specific deception. Way too much like Jackie Mason. There's no way you ever were an Episcopalian. So he's not being misled with specificity. So God says to you that he's going to be president, and he says he's going to be an Isaiah 45 president. For my secular listeners and viewers, what in the world does that mean? The 45th president in the United States is going to be an Isaiah 45 president.

I hear the 45th president, and this is embarrassing to say, but I could go to the Bible to look up Isaiah 45, but I didn't. I went to Google because I wanted to test. to see what number is the next president? Because right away, in my own sophisticated way, I know this is the devil. If the next president is 46, this is obviously a bad spirit. I go to the Google and I go,

what president number was Obama? And it says, in a 44. And I thought, uh-huh, a deceiving spirit. He got reelected. That much I know. And then it says, you know, but you keep the same number, no matter how many times you're elected. So he was 44 and he was 40.

and he was 44, the next one's 45. Boom. Hang on, we're going to go to a hard break. Forgive me, folks. We'll be right back with the punchline. I am talking to my friend, Lance Wollnow, Dr. Lanswoolnau. He's the author of a brand new book called God's Chaos President. Lance, you were just telling us this extraordinary experience you had,

a undoubtedly spiritual experience. God speaks to you that Donald Trump is going to be an Isaiah 45 president. and you look it up. Okay. So you figure out that if he were elected, he would be the 45th president. So that means something, I guess. But what has the amazing thing, Eric? The Lord didn't say Donald Trump will be. He said the next, the 43th president will be in Isaiah 45. So I go to now, after Google, I go to Isaiah 45. Thus says the Lord to Cyrus is anointed. And then I'm reading this chapter on Cyrus. And I'm reading it and I'm finding some interesting things. It says, you know, and all these things I'm going to do, though you do not know me.

Now, all my friends are involved with there with Ben Carson, there with Huckabee, there with Rubio, there with Cruz. Every evangelical I know is being tapped to go help these other guys run. The only heathen in the group is Donald Trump. And so right then, I'm looking at this and going, oh, my gosh, the only one who doesn't know him is Donald Trump. And so now I'm going, that's it. Donald Trump is the one and nobody wanted to hear it.

So it's one thing if it's after the election. Everybody suddenly was an authority on the subject. Oh, I knew all along. Didn't you know I said it? In my case, nobody wanted to hear it. What year was this? 2015, as the elections going on, I write the book. So are you the first one to say that Trump is a type of Cyrus?

That whole heresy came from me. That was my original heresy. You're the troublemaker. I wanted to go to Ground Zero to find out, to trace it back, to who the troublemaker is. You, because a lot of people have said this, so tell, for people, a lot of people listening don't know anything about the Bible or God or whatever,

who was Cyrus? What does this mean? Well, this ends up being more than even I knew. The Jewish people were for 70 years, they were in Babylon. They had a prophecy from Jeremiah saying that after 70 years, you're going to come out. And suddenly, out of nowhere, this Persian, Cyrus comes along and in fulfillment of prophecy. I mean, even Isaiah is very specific. He says,

I'm going to dry up rivers in front of him. Cyrus is able to invade Babylon by diverting the Euphrates River upstream so that he literally goes in and invades the city on dry ground by diverting the river. This is the history of his invasion. When he comes in, Daniel is there, according to Daniel, he's there for one year in the first year of the administration of Cyrus. Now, Daniel was over 120 governors. He was an old retiring Jewish statesman, and he just wanted to be left alone. But Cyrus pulls him in because he's a transition government. He's an expat, Daniel.

He's not a Babylonian, so everyone trusts him. And Daniel shows him the Isaiah 45 prophecy. Thus says the Lord to Cyrus, 120 years before he was born. When Cyrus sees this, he reads that he is being put in by the hand of God for the purpose of his people and for Israel. And so at that point, he decrees, you Jewish people, I want you to go back to your homeland and rebuild your temple. Rebuild your house and pray for me.

And so an expedition takes off of 50,000 Jews, not a whole lot because they had real estate, they were settled down, but the 50,000 go back and they begin to rebuild the house. As I'm reading this, I begin to understand, And this is the code because what happened is we had a Cyrus come into office. He comes into Babylon from outside. He doesn't know God, but he's anointed by God. And then the spirit of God is doing it for the sake of, in my opinion, Israel and the Christians.

He's the biggest advocate for these two people. I don't know how we could be such knuckleheads and not see this. So he comes into power. And then there's a decree made. I think we've had a decree, Eric, for three and a half years for the church to rise up. I don't think we did what we were supposed to do. And guess what? That's exactly what happened in the Bible.

God's people went down. They lost focus on what they were supposed to do. They all went into their own private property. They went in their own building, their own projects. And then an economic blight hit. And God sent a prophet, Hey, Guy, and said, you better consider your ways. You don't have as much time as you think you do. And the people started realizing the timing of God.

And basically the prophet said, you're building your house. and my house is incomplete. And so they suddenly repented and started building on God's project. I'd say that's where the church is in America right now. They're just realizing it. So you have a parallel to today. Totally. This is the code.

This is, it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, exactly what happened. So, and so that's in your new book, God's chaos president. Exactly. Okay, so tell us then what do you see from the, now I just understand that many people listening to this program, think both of us are crackers. We're Mishugana, they're saying, Mushugana, and I'm Shibitzing

thinking about those people, but let me just say this. Let's just go with this idea in your book, God's cast president. What do you believe God is saying about this election and our future as a nation? This is important, and yeah, you know, people will think

we're Mish Ranaa, but the truth of the matter is, that's why I prefer to call myself a futurist, because a futurist sounds somewhat sophisticated. It could be like an economic futurist. The way that I look at this is I saw, Eric, just to push the envelope even further, I committed myself a year ago. I said Kamala Harris.

Kamala Harris is going to be the competing presidential candidate against Trump. Now I'm going on the air right now and telling you that. This is a crazy thing. But a year ago, I was saying Kamala Harris. And then when she totally flamed out with the Senate, you know, running in the primaries, I said, thank God, I'm finally wrong because I'm not even

liking some of the things I'm seeing. And so I've told my staff, and in their election, you know, we all have friends who love to put us down. We make a mistake because they think we need it. We benefit from the humility. And so, oh, look how you missed it with that. You missed it so bad. It's like, well, of course, I missed it. And then when she got, I got a text, oh, boy, you were right. I go, what are you talking about? Biden just called Kamala. I said, you see what I said? this is the problem. I have words that are accurate. Nobody believes it. And then when I give them, nobody likes them. Okay. Now, now just to be just to be clear, and you can sit back a little bit, because we want to see the full breadth of your beautiful background there. I don't mean to be a production

manager here. But let me ask you, Lance, because this is, you and I love to joke around so much, but we're talking about such serious stuff. So Kamala Harris, Are you suggesting that her being chosen as vice president has more significance? In others, are you suggesting that either Biden will step aside or that she will become the actual president? Or what are you saying? We're in some interesting territory right now. I'm telling you that if you actually step into a dimension where you can kind of like censor into it, things to come. Because it wasn't just Cyrus.

I actually wrote in 2015, Eric, I wrote the term Trump derangement will be associated with media. I predicted the term before Trump derangement became a term. This is all a matter of published record. And so I- Did you trademark it? Huh? Do you trademark it? No.

Darn. Okay, go ahead. Look, I told you that I'm 80% Gentile. What am I supposed to do? So the reality is with Kamala Harris, I saw this, I saw her and I said to myself, is this, I believe what the Lord is showing me is not what will be, but what I think it's possible to know what the future would look like in terms of what the devil wants to do. And so you can see it.

Now, for instance, this may sound like strange theology, but let's go there. David is seeking the Lord about whether he should go to a certain. city. I think it's Kaila or something like that. And he said, Lord, should I go to that? If I go to that city, will they receive me? The Lord says, yes. And if I go to that city, will Saul come up? Lord says, yes. And if Saul comes up, will those people betray me? And the Lord says, yes. And he goes, thank you. He decided not to go to that city. Got it. Got it. That's funny. So for knowledge, isn't predestination. To get a little weird here, it means if God shows you something, he's saying, and this is what's going to happen, and this is what I want to do.

So here's where the church is at right now. If Kamala Harrison, I know people are not going to like what I'm going to say, you can always edit it out, thank God. I'm telling you, this woman will be Hillary 2.0. She will be like the retribution of the spirit of Hillary, and particularly on social issues and evangelicals. Did you just use the word Jezebel? No, I didn't, but that's the word.

I just want to make sure you don't. Okay, so on social issues. issues and things. The way Kamala Harris went after David Delighton, he was an investigative journalist who exposed Planned Parenthood's harvesting and selling of unborn baby parts, a wicked, demonic thing, in my opinion. She went after him like she was tracking down Eichmann. She decided that she would make an example of him. There are many cases of this from her past. that actually are very scary in which playing to the narrative you have just said. There's no doubt about it.

She was vetted before she came. This isn't like you get this image like Joe Biden is weighing the kid. Joe Biden is not doing any weighing. He's not even writing his own scripts. He's sticking their reading. Every time he doesn't, he just reads what he's told to read. We've got to go to one more break. Another break.

We'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to Lance Walnau. Folks, I'm talking to Lance Walna. now he's the author of a new book, God's Chaos President, Donald J. Trump, the ancient code that reveals America's future and the destiny of nations. Okay, so you're saying that this woman, Kamala Harris, was vetted by the people behind Biden, not by Biden himself. Absolutely. This guy, this is an Axelrod and Eric Holder and the big Democracy Alliance donors and the media guy, Zuckerberg. Everybody knew this was the perfect candidate.

she is going to execute an agenda to restore everything Obama lost in his legacy to Trump. In other words, her task is actually to undo and make up for lost time. That's, and this is for people like me or for you, this is, this is the, and it isn't just going to be one term. If someone like that gets in, they will make it so that, you know, there'll be the, you know, there'll be this whole change with the immigration rule. They're going to have millions of people that are going to be voting. Basically, they'll make sure that this is a two-term disaster. And America- It goes way past two terms.

In other words, for me, if that happens, this is me talking here, the futurist, Eric from Texas, I have said that if he doesn't win a second term, if they are able to have their way, it will effectively be the end of America because we're going to change things so fundamentally we'll never be able to write the ship again. We're going to go into, you know, effectively cultural. Marxism. We're going to go very far away from the founder's vision that we have had roughly these 245 years. You're absolutely right. So rather than going on that negative note, I'm looking at that and saying that's what's coming. What's worse is, I knew Kamala was going to be the agent.

And what's weird is, I knew Joe Biden wasn't going to be the president or he wouldn't be staying long in that office. So I think she's vetted. I think she's approved. I think she's going to do the, just like he's doing someone's agenda, she's going to do the agenda. And I'm saying, actually, no, it's like, she's like a chameleon. This is the mysterious part that we, I'm saying, I've got to pray and we have to really press into. Because what you have is a personality that can shift on any position. I mean, this is a woman who at one point, nobody's even quoting this. I'm watching her make a commitment on reparations.

She's committed on that. She's committed on borders being open. She's committed on socialized. There's hardly a radical proposition that she has an already verbally committed to, but she's capable of flip-plopping on anything depending on whether or not it serves that moment. And the American mind is so fickle that it almost looks, well, she lets pretty, and she's convincing, and she's got nice teeth. And so that's the American mind evaluating stuff. Meanwhile, I'm sitting there looking at her agenda and going, you have to look, it's just like X-Men.

This is mystique. This is like some ability to become whatever you want to see, but we have to be able to see what's actually there. Yeah, I mean, she's like an evil, And I think that Mark Levin covered it pretty accurately, I think it was last night. But when you go down the list of tremendously radical positions that she has fully affirmed, it's actually frightening. I don't say that often. It was actually frightening. I thought if half of these were to come to pass, America, as we know it, is over.

So why do you have any reason to be positive? lands. What do you think? Because of the code. It's the code. This is what gets me. It's because Cyrus comes to power. Cyrus comes in as an intervention of God and a prophetic fulfillment of what God spoke to Jeremiah. And when he comes, God sends prophets again to the Jews, to Zerububel and to Joshua, the man in charge of the house of God and the temple and the man in charge of government in Jerusalem and says, wake up. You guys have a project to do. Well, they stir it up. And Eric, they went to work on the house. Now, to me, what is the house?

I think God wants to build a church that can suddenly be big enough to be relevant to America. Not a local church, but you could shut down for a year and open up after New Year's. A house that is a house for the nation. We have abdicated our responsibility

to be engaged. Look at you. I'm so proud of you. You're doing media. You do the Socrates Club. You're engaged on the front lines. Believers are not sufficiently motivated to see the gate.

of influence is where they got to go. But this is the code. Haggai builds the, he says, build the temple. They build a house basically for the nation. Then Nehemiah comes and says, we need walls and gates, walls and gates, and they begin to restore the boundaries, the culture, and the gates. The gates of influence in media and academia, in entertainment, in government, and certainly in areas of business, we need to have a vigorous uprising of Americans who love Americans. not just Christians, but people who share the same basic values and occupy the gates because the gates had been taken over by radicals who have a completely different direction they're going to drive this trust, this person.

You spoke on this the other day. You've spoken out at other times. And I know what you're talking about intimately. And I know that many people in this country don't understand what has happened. In the last 50 or so years, the famous long march through the institution. institutions, the academy, universities around this country, including so-called Christian universities, have been taken over very dramatically by the woke cultural Marxists. There is no question. It's been happening for decades. The media is dead. The New York Times is dead. They no longer

report on what they used to report on. Now it's effectively opinion, journalism, and on and on and on and on. So for what you're talking about to happen, it seems to me, Lance, that we need a bona fide revival in America. In other words, not just a political revival, but a spiritual revival. Absolutely. And this is one of my main concerns. The first thing that Christians do, you'll see, Lex, there's two things that we go to automatically. It's almost like a reflex. The first thing is pray.

Well, okay, so everybody's praying. But then you have to figure out what are you actually praying for? And then it's like, repent. So what they're bringing? Hold on. This is a key thing. We're going to a break. This is very key. We'll be right back with Lance Walnau. Folks, I'm talking to Lance Walnow. The book is God's chaos. President Lance, you just said that Christians say, okay, first thing we've got to do is pray. Second thing we've got to do is repent. I don't see much repentance happening, actually, but go ahead. Well, no, because the first thing is everybody gets nervous and praise like that. And so there's prayer, prayer. We're going to have a prayer meeting. Do you know, I was reading once where God actually said, There's a verse in the Bible. Will you stop it already? I don't want to hear any more praying. It's where Joshua loses a battle. He gets upset about the fact that it looks like God's causing a

reverse for them. And he goes and he goes to God and says, why have you done this? And the Lord says, stand up. I didn't do this. You did this. This is because, I basically feel like God's saying that right now. And so everybody's saying, Lord, when the Lord says, you know what, here's the repentance you need. It's not, we're all, we're acting like, well, those heathen, don't New York Times. You're right. The New York Times and CNN and the Hollywood credit and the liberals and the gays and what's happening in America. Here's the reality of it all. If the church had been properly awakened and engaged, a lot of this wouldn't happen. Let's admit it. That is 100% correct. There's no, what you just said, do you know how many people didn't vote? How many evangelical Christians,

they're not registered to vote? They didn't vote. They wouldn't vote for Trump. 30 million, 30 million. I'm getting the data right now. 30 million Christians who have opinions on everything that's wrong in America are not registered and do not vote. Okay, that is staggering. And of course, I think of the parallel of the German church in Hitler's time. If the German church, this is the whole point of my Bonhofer book, if the German church had stood up in the beginning and heeded the cry of this prophet named Bonhofer, Hitler, never could have succeeded. That is a flat-out fact. It was the failure of the German church to be the church.

It strikes me that we are in something of a similar position. Not only that, but I read your book, and I loved your book. It depressed me a little bit because you're such a good writer. People shouldn't have that much talent. You could be funny, you can interview, but you can write so well. It discouraged me. I put my book off a whole month writing. I said, have you read the taxes?

Look, he writes one book after another. How does he do it? The other thing that depressed me was the fact that what did they say in Germany? Oh, as this thing started, God's going to send a revival. This is an alarm when believers start to attribute God's doing something when things are going in the wrong direction. And so they think that this is going to result in some kind of awakening. No, it didn't result an awakening unless you wanted to go visit Auschwitz or something. This wasn't an awakening. So you're absolutely right. This is where the church is in America. But Donald Trump is there,

and this encourages me, because it ain't over yet. And this guy was put there by God. Now the church has a role to play, and I'm convinced if we pray and repent. But the repentance is, we're the ones that's screwed up. We don't have to be praying for God to send conviction to the unsaved. Do you know there's enough Christians in America to change the culture in America? That's why the repenting has got to be us for negligence and selfishness and ignorance. Wow. Oh, my goodness. You're singing my song because I've been very, very upset at two things. First of all, we have many serious Christians in America who don't discern the times. They don't read the times. And they are, they're really on the wrong side of many of these issues. And I don't know what to say to those folks. But to those folks who understand that things are wrong, to not be politically involved, to not vote, almost. to delight in the destruction of America because they have some wonderful idea that, you know, this means Jesus is going to come sooner.

That is not biblical, folks. You are supposed to fight for what is right and true. Fight for other people. Don't fight for yourself. There are young people across America whose lives will be destroyed if this nation continues in this direction. Vote for those people cast a vote. And so it's just wonderful to hear you affirm what I know is true, Lance.

I mean, I know this is true. Yeah, absolutely true. And by the way, when Nehemiah came to go rebuild the walls and to occupy, and by the way, the walls, I don't want to get into more controversy here. But the walls has to do with the Jezebel spirit and the collapse of culture. We're talking about the walls that used to define a family. The walls used to define a marriage. The walls used to define public service.

The walls used to define the boundaries of America's borders. You know, in Acts the Apostle Paul said that God has given time and boundaries. to nations. This is like, I don't know, God isn't progressive enough. He actually puts boundaries on things so that they can prosper. So he puts boundaries and time limits. And I think America's time is up. I think that, I think God is showing us, hey, look at what's coming. What do you think? And I think he's giving us a window. We're talking like weeks in order to be able to awaken ourselves. And no Christian should be ignorant of the times that we're in. This is like, got, like you said, you're watching history happen.

And I believe an awakening is actually going to be. And, you know, it's a cute saying, but it's a rude awakening before the great awakening. And by the way, God sent an awakening in the book of Hagar. He sent one to the Jews. And you know when the awakening happened? When they realized that they were neglecting God's project and they'd better get to work on God's project. I have to say, as I have said, I agree with your assessment of the situation. people don't seem to understand either how bad things are,

or if they do understand how bad things are, they don't do anything about it except fret and watch Fox News and Kavich. I think that if people don't act, there are a million things you can do. Prayer is a good thing to do. But my goodness, folks, vote. If we vote, it's a different story.

When I think of the people who sat home and allowed Gavin Newsom to be elected, There were enough people in California to elect the other guy five times over. Evangelical Christians not registered, didn't vote in that election. We're in a similar state here where if people care about the future of their kids, about the future of what we have built here, it's incumbent on them to vote. And whatever put the idea into their head that politics is too dirty and that Donald Trump, because of this and this and this, I can't vote for him.

Those people are not thinking rationally, and they will have themselves to blame if we go down the tubes with a Kamala Harris-slash-Biden presidency. And as worse is, they would accuse people like us of having bad theology, because we're saying, get engaged with what's happening. The truth of the matter is, they are in theological error

because they are not stewarding the inheritance God gave them. God gives you money and you squander it. God gives you health and you become obese and start smoking packs of suit. It's not God's fault if you have cardiac arrest. America has a stewardship and the church has a stewardship. Anyway, we could go all day. The optimism is there's a visitation I believe God's doing right now, which is why this subject is so important.

Okay, hang on. We'll be right back. We'll hear more about that visitation in a moment. Hey, folks, I'm talking to Lance. Now, Lance, let's just continue the conversation. You said something about a visitation where we are now. What do you mean? I'm saying that there is an appropriate anxiety creeping up over the awakened part of the body of Christ,

that we are literally standing at the precipice of the collapse of Western civilization. This is not one of those moments where it's like, oh, every election people say that. Forget that. Many of us were not involved with electoral politics at this level until Donald Trump came the law because we thought somebody was taking care of America. We were not educated. Listen, man, I did not know that, I'll be honest, I wasn't tracking with the Department of Justice and FISA courts. I knew, most of us knew nothing. As a matter of fact, I've got data on it. 20 million Americans have been launched on a civics lesson since Donald Trump came into office.

Barna calls the group Sage Khan, spiritually active, governmentally engaged conservatives. It's a unique group that put Trump over the top in the swing states. And there's 20 million of us out there. We are watching this. And we're the ones who are concerned. I think if this group is now coming into a kind of a unity, Eric, that we haven't had. We should have been doing this for four years. We should have been doing this.

Instead, we all went back to our own projects. The midterms told me, uh-oh, we don't get the urgency of this thing. And so now we're going to have to see the awakening of us to our responsibility. and negligence, and that's not nearly as sexy a revival move as a lot of people would like. They want to have a God moving and falling down in visions and dreams and miracles and a sweeping of the electorate in so they could go back to business as usual, and that's not going to happen. That's interesting you say that. So then what do you see that's going to happen?

How do you mean? Say more about that. I see that in a very short period of time, the church is going to have to have its own wrecking ball. An overdue reformation has to happen because we need to have some consensus on whether or not we will engage ourselves with these unseemly matters of gates of influence because we've let the gates be occupied. And we're not going to solve this problem in an election cycle. You thought there was a crazy manifestation after Trump got in last time. Can you imagine the unraveling that will happen when you've got people rioting in streets already right now, and this is just an

election cycle. What would happen if they actually lost? What happens if Trump goes in? What happens if God's intervention tips the scales because his people are finally doing what he wants him to do? And he says, I'm going to give you mercy. I'm going to extend, we better go into this next season knowing it is going to be persecution without leverage to fight back if he loses. It will be be persecution with leverage if he wins. We're going to have to commit ourselves to the gates of influence. And that's going to require a das reckoning in the church, because too many leaders are delivering too many different messages, and the church needs to have a clear trumpet sound. So there has to be kind of like a Jerusalem conference, Eric, like they had in Book of Acts.

They convened. I'm calling for a convening of leaders to discuss the fate of America and to own what we do. I am very with you on this, Lance. It's fascinating. The problem, of course, when you get a bunch of pastors in a room is that they like to get up and give little sermons and then nothing comes out of it. We're going to end hour one, but we're going to drag you over into hour two for another few minutes to continue the conversation. Folks, the book is God's chaos, president, the author, And my guest, Lance, wall now. Stick around. Hey, folks, you can listen to the rest of this interview on our YouTube channel, the Eric Mattaxas show.

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