The Eric Metaxas Show - Letter to the American Church (Encore)

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

Eric is interviewed by Albin about his book, "Letter to the American Church," and his insights are powerful and, hopefully, motivating continue to awaken a sleeping Church in 2023. (Encore Presentation)

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, he has a jar of peanut butter, and he's not afraid to use it. Here comes Eric Mattexas. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.

I've been happy New Year to you. and your family. And you still married to that woman? What's your name, Ann? Yes, Ann, beautiful. Anne, lover, lover, lover. How many years has it been? You guys got married later in life, but you guys are. Yeah, we're coming up on 15, number 15. I predict that this is going to last. That's my prediction. That's my new year prediction. Okay. Your marriage is going to last, not just this year, but in the years to come. Thank you. I'm going out on a limb. New Year's predictions. Thank you. 2023. I'm living until I'm 98, and

still be married to Anne. She'll still be alive to. Is that beautiful? Okay. So, well, we have, I want to talk a little bit about what we're looking forward to in the year ahead, because there's a lot to look forward. Somebody asked this question, I think, in the, in the, uh, Ask Mataxis last Thursday. And I thought there's so much, there's a lot happening this year. And so let me start there. What I, one of the things that I'm looking forward to, I think I did mention this. Socrates is in the, city. We're really ramping it up. We're going to be doing them around the country. We have plans to do one in Seattle, almost certainly in Seattle. We have plans to do many of them, of course, in New York.

So let me just tell you, there's a lot of new developments coming. I can't share everything, but we're going to be in the weeks ahead, in this month, once a week releasing one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the, events that we have recorded over the last months. I mean, these are some amazing events and we wanted to edit it all right and everything like that. But those are ones we've already done. And we're going to be doing many, many more. Put on your calendar, February 28th, New York City, Eugenia Constantinu.

Some of you remember I had her on the show a couple of times, folks. Oh, my gosh. She is a scholar, a true scholar of the New Testament. She has so many degrees. kidding. But the beauty, and this is why I love this woman, Eugenia Constantine, she's so humble and so normal. She acts like, oh, but what's the big deal? She's amazing. She wrote a book. We talked about it, at least, I think twice on the program in the last year, called the Crucifixion of the Lord of Glory, the Crucifixion of the King of Glory. It is an amazing book. And I said,

you know what next year at the beginning of lent we need to get her on to do a socrates in the city event i'm telling you i rarely read a book that i am i'm blown away uh crucifixion of the king of glory so she's going to be in new york city february 28th um and we don't we haven't you know advertised the registration or anything but if you can possibly get to new york city on february 28th or if you live in the New York City area, I am, I just cannot tell you how happy I am that she's able to do this. She lives in San Diego. She's coming. It's just, it's going to be great. So mark that down February 28th. We've got a lot of other dates ahead, but none of them set in stone. But that one is, is a huge, huge, huge deal. And I want to say also, when you talk about what I'm looking forward to,

Albin, I don't know if you know this. I think you do know this. My book, Fish Out of Water. Yes. coming out in paperback in March. The cover, the paperback cover, I love it so much that I think I'm more excited than I was about the hard cover, which never happens. Oh, by the way, we should warn people that in both hours of today's show, both hours, Albin, we're replaying an interview. Albin interviewed me on my most recent book, the shortest book I've ever. written called Letter to the American Church. So today in both hours, we're playing Albin's interview of the author, Eric Metaxus, about his book, Letter to the American Church. So that's both hours

today. What I'd like to just say is that you wrote this book so quickly that you can actually, you wrote it, you wrote it. That's how quickly you wrote it. That's how quickly I wrote it. And it's that sloppy. There are just sentence fragments. It's a mess. No, it's, it is. It is, it is kind of amazing. I've never written a book so quickly. Well, look, it's the shortest book, but I'm sorry to say it's the most important book I've ever written. Now, look, people might say that if you know me, you know that I don't, I not only try not to blow smoke, but I detest when people blow smoke and are just, you know, puffing things up that don't deserve puffing up. This, I think, is the most important book I've ever written because, you know, you know, you

let me just say part of the proof of God in my life is to see his hand over the years. And when I think back that he called me to write my book on William Wilberforce in 2006 and 2007. 2006, sorry. He called me to write my book on Bonhofer, which came out in 2010. He called me to write a book on Martin Luther, which came out in 2017. When I was writing these books, I never dreamt. that some years in the future, what I learned from writing about those three heroes of the faith

would be brought to bear on where we are now in the United States of America. I never dreamt it. If you had talked to me at any point in all those years, I would have said, oh, I, you know, maybe someday things we're going to get. So when I wrote the book letter to the American Church, which we're going to be discussing in both hours, or we are already discussing, it became clear to me that God prepared me to write this book for this season in America, for the American Church, over the years, without my knowledge.

I was just doing what I thought, you know, I'm doing what I think God's called me to do, but I had no sense of the bigger picture. So I do want to say that that is, what I'm looking forward to is that this year, the people who have read letter to the American church. And many, many people have read it because it's sold better so far than I think any book that I wrote in the beginning. I mean, eventually Bonhofer, these books sell more. But no book has ever sold so quickly because I think there is a genuine hunger. And I think that my hope for this year is to see people, pastors, living out what is in this book, realizing, you know what, if I don't live out my faith,

I'm a hypocrite. I need to live out my fate. That's the joy. That's the God wants me to bless him by living it out. So I'm looking forward to seeing that this year. I'm already seeing a little bit of it, but I'm looking forward to that. And I mentioned Albin, I'm looking forward to the fact that fish out of water, the book is coming out in paperback. And I think this fall is atheism dead is coming out in paperback. I am looking forward to speaking on those books in churches. Because when I speak, speaking churches on a letter to the American church. It's a little heavy. It's a little serious. And I've been doing tons of that and I'll do much more of that. But I'm looking forward to telling the funny true stories in fish out of water of growing up with my mom and dad and telling the fun. I mean, the amazing proof of God from science. So I'm looking forward to traveling around the country. And I should say, folks, if you want to see my travel schedule, go to ericmetaxis.com. I don't think I've ever traveled as much as I've got tons of traveling and I'm traveling around the country. But I look forward to meeting you all in the book lines and stuff.

We take pictures. I mean, for me, honestly, people say, well, are you sure you want to do that, Eric? Yes, it is a joy. Yeah. It is a huge joy for me. Yeah. But by the way, we've got to mention CSI. We've got a great campaign to free slaves over in the Sudan.

And for $250, you can actually set a, a human being free. Just go to our website, metaxisotalk.com, right at the very top. There's a banner. Click on that. Send in $10, $50, $250, and free a slave or be a part of something. Be a part of freeing a slave. Do that today, folks. Pretty much everyone can participate in that. There are people literally who can give $10,000 tax free. If you do that and you want to spend an evening with me, It'll be my joy to spend the evening with you. We want people to live out their faith. These are just some options.

Got to mention our friend Sean Floyd is a film out called Super Spreader. If you go to SalemNow.com, you'll see not only the show that I do with Albin, which is obviously free and insane. But that's the talk show, the late night show. But you can see Super Spreader. I recommend it very highly. it will inspire you. Folks, we need to be inspired and encouraged. Go to SalemNow.com. Check it out. And we'll be back with more of Alvin interviewing me. It's very curious. Thank you. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that

question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. and the doctors who formulated relief factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients, and each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such wonderful relief. If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise,

they're just getting older. you should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you. It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more on one of them. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes leading the prices of goods. to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money

is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable. Gold is one of the best ways to protect your retirement. No matter what happens, you own your gold. It is real, it is physical, it's always been valuable since the dawn of time. Legacy precious metals is the company I trust for investing in gold. They can help you roll your retirement. retirement account into a gold-backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metals safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at LegacyPMinvestments.com. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Metaxas show. As you know, we try to get the best guests we can on this program. And I interview these wonderful people.

But sometimes we just really can't get anybody of quality. And I said, hey, Albin, you know what? We can anybody, what about if I were to be the guest and you were to interview me about my new book? Yeah, because when you said, I want to be the guest, I said, well, have you written anything? Yeah. Have you starred in anything? Well, why you? The fact is, I didn't want to be the guest. I want to be perfectly blunt and say that I am the guest right now because it was Albin's

idea to interview me about my new book letter to the American chair. So, Albin, since I'm the guest and you're the host, I'm. better shut up and let you, you run the show. Okay, well, I heard you had letter to the American church, so I was looking for something in the mail, something maybe like this, a page, a page and a half. Right. Hey, dear church, I got some things to say.

Yeah. But, of course, you know, the guy who wrote Bonhofer, you know, 500, 600 pages, of course, his letter is not going to be like two pages. It's going to be kind of like 150 pages or something like that, and he's going to put in a nice little book call. Well, it is my shortest book. It is. And I mean this, folks, this is a short book, but it is, you know, no joke. I think it's probably the most important thing that I have written, period, period, end of sentence. Yeah, I know. What's amazing is, and it's very cool because it says on the front, and this is very important, because of course you wrote about Martin Luther, you wrote about the slave trade and William Wilberforce and miracles, but on the front, and this is an important.

line because when I first read it, I said, well, Eric's written all kinds of books, but it says author of Bonhofer, Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy. Why is that important? Because in a sense, this is almost like part two of Bonhoffer. Because you're not Eric saying, hey, listen, I got a message for the American church. You make it very clear in this book. This is Bonhofer in his day, saying to his church, hey, listen, folks, you've got to wake up. And so you were taking Bonhofer, in a sense, you're taking Bonhofer's warning and his words, and you're turning them around and saying, look, that was 1930s, Germany. This is 2020s America. Don't listen to me, folks. Don't listen to Eric Metaxis. Listen to Dietrich Bonhofer. The German people did not listen.

And look what happened to them. And look where we were in America. Actually, that was the challenge for me in writing this book, because I never, I mean, this is true. folks. I've never felt this burning. I felt like I've got to write, I've got to say this. Like God put it on my heart to say these things. And I was actually thinking of publishing it myself. I just thought it's not going to be long, but I've got to say this so that some key figures in the American church will read this. I've got to say this. And my publisher, Salem, when we met at NRB National Religious Broadcasters Convention back in, what was it in, I think it was March? March. They wanted to meet with me. They had some ideas for books that I might write with them.

And they basically described this book. They said, we think you should write this book. And I thought, that is absolutely weird. That has to be God because I didn't tell anybody I wanted to write this book. They described it to me. And I said, I was already planning to write that book. So they're the publisher of the book, Letter to the American Church. But the title, I originally was going to title it, Faith Without Works is Dead. In other words, the American Church, has gotten so focused sometimes on what we believe that you forget that if you do not live out what you say you believe, you don't actually believe it. God looks at our James writes about it. I write about it in the book quoting the gospel of the epistle of James where he basically says faith, he says exactly faith without works is dead. In other words, if you think you can just say

I believe this stuff, but you're not living it self-sacrificially. You're not speaking the truth when it matters, God knows you actually don't have faith. So your salvation, this is chilling, is on the line. What you do, what you say, how you behave, are you fighting for the truth at a time that it's being under attack? Are you doing all these things? Or have you been persuaded to be silent? And I guess I ultimately, what it really boils down to, what I say in the book, is that

the German church was silent. Bonhofer tried with everything. he had to get them to speak up and to fight the evil of the Nazis before most people really understood where it was going. And they said, not yet, not yet. We don't want to be political. We don't want to be political. Well, when they finally woke up, it was too late. They had opened their mouths too late. And what I say in this book, and I'm begging people to take this seriously, folks, I'm begging you to take this seriously. The silence of the German church, which led to the nightmare of the Holocaust and everything else, that is precisely the same as the silence

of the American Church today. We are facing cultural Marxism. We are facing transgender madness. We're facing political enemies who no longer believe in the Constitution, who want to fundamentally transform America, destroy, crush religious liberty, redefine liberty on every level we are facing this nightmare, and most leaders in the church have been silent. And I'm saying in the book, please, please, try to take this seriously what I'm saying, that our silence today is leading us to the nightmare, to the same nightmare for America that Germany was led to by the silence of the German church. I believe that is exactly where we are.

And if I don't speak about it, I will die. I have to deliver this message. and I believe by God's grace he'll get it in the hands of people who are open to the truth. And I'm going to read a question. You have obviously questions and answers in this book, and I want to read this kind of open-ended question, and it's kind of something of a softball, but I want to read it anyway. It follows up on what you just said. You see in America, you know, today a similar pattern, I think a lot of us do.

And you say here, since we have the dramatic advantage of knowing what happened in Germany, will we take what he said, Bonhoeffer said, more seriously than they did. And then you say, will you, like the individual, not just the church in general, because we, the people, we the people are the government, but we the people are also the church. I wanted you expand a little bit on what Bonhofer did. I mean, how did he, he saw it, but then what did he do specifically? Well, it's interesting because Bonhofer saw what was happening before other people saw what was happening.

And that's kind of like a prophetic thing, right? He could see whether it's mystically prophetic where it was just his sense from how he was raised. But he seemed to see the evil and where it was going. And he saw that if the church stands and fights, the evil will not prevail. But if the church does not stand, if the church says, well, it's not our job. Romans 13, we're not supposed to speak about political things. If the church does that, he knew where the Nazis were going to take Germany. The Nazis would never say we want to transform Germany into an anti-Christian or non-Christian country. They weren't stupid. They wouldn't say that,

but he knew that that was the DNA of national socialism. And he tried to get the church to understand this is what you're facing. And every day that you're silent, you are enamelized. enabling this to triumph, this evil. And so, you know, you say, what did he do? I mean, he did many things. And eventually, to be perfectly honest, he threw up his hands because he knew it was too late. The German church had failed. And that's, you know, eventually he gets involved in the plot to kill Hitler. That's way down the line. But in the beginning, he was just with all his heart trying to get the German church to see the urgency. And this is kind of what I find is the key. It's the urgency. It's always the tempting thing to say, you know what, it's just, it's just not that bad.

We'll get through it. Hitler's a one-term fewer. We'll get through it. The pendulum swings this way and that way. It's okay. Well, Bonhoeff is saying, no, no. If you do not speak up now, if you do not fight, if you do not, yeah, maybe you'll lose your job, maybe I'll go to concentration camp, but the point is if you do not fight, the suffering that is going to be unleashed, the evil that is going to be unleashed, is inconceivable. And I think that's my point in the book is to try to get people to know that good people in the past similarly could not conceive of what lay ahead. They were exactly where we are, where they basically said, that can't happen here. That won't happen here. We know what happened when you see the images of the death camps and all this stuff. You

can't believe that it happened. It's so horrible. But most Americans think, well, nothing like that could ever happen. That's not going to happen. It's no different than the German church. They were convinced this can't happen. Yeah, I came up with a one-word answer after reading halfway through the book. I came up with a one-word answer of how could the church let these things happen? The one-word answer gradually. Gradually. That's right. Don't give the devil a foothold. Isn't that a scripture and is the church doing that? And there's examples of that. And I know we're going to touch on that in the next part. Okay. You've said it exactly, Albin. It's the proverbial frog and the tea kettle. If you do not recognize what is happening, you don't do anything. You just

kind of let it go a little further and a little further and a little further. And then at some point you realize, uh-oh, it's too late. I think of when you think of, when you think of Gulliver being tied down by the Lilliputians, right? At some point, he could have woken up and burst the bands, but if they could just keep tying him down and tying him to, at some point, he would not be able to get up. That's the question of the American church. While we're going to a break, we'll be right back. Make like a Mr. Meek, and you'll get cut out. As hard as it may be for us to comprehend here in America, there are people in other parts of the world whose very lives are being threatened simply for believing in Jesus. In fact, people are being enslaved for their faith. Some have been in bondage for 25 or 30 years.

If you've been listening for any period of time, you know I'm passionate about the work of Christian Solidarity International, a ministry that sets these captives free. There are hundreds of thousands persecuted and enslaved in the Middle East. Together, we can literally buy their freedom and save the lives of some precious brothers and sisters this Christmas, giving them the joy and hope that we celebrate freely. For only $250, you can provide life-saving aid this Christmas. buy a believer's freedom and provide them with much-needed food, a goat, and other goods necessary for their very survival. These are brothers and sisters who are enslaved and fearing for their lives. Just $250. Maybe you can give more. Maybe a portion. Every gift helps. Imagine buying a fellow believers freedom. Call 888-253-352. 888-253-352.000. Christian solidarity,

providing lifesaving resources for persecuted Christians for almost 40 years. 888-253-352 or Metaxistalk.com and click on the Christian Solidarity Banner. Give someone the gift of their freedom for Christmas. Thank you. Folks, welcome back. It's the Eric Metaxa show. Typically, I interview someone, but today, Albin, he thought it would be fun for him to interview me since I have a new book out called Letter to the American Church. So, Albin, it's yours, man.

Usually it's fun. I've got to tell you, my favorite book because of the fun aspect is Martin Luther because it was such a crazy time. It almost was like a fun facts Fridays. There were, you know, relics and indulgence. There was a lot of huge. in my Martin Luther book. This is not a book loaded with fun, no. No. I want to go on to what the pastors did back then, and of course it's going to

dovetail onto what the pastors are doing now. I just want to read this real quick. And it's a mathematical calculation, which I found really fun. And it really explains, again, what happened when the pastors did try to speak up and who was strong about their faith and who said, I am, you know, I stand here and know, I'm not going to move. You said, we know what followed in Germany. the 12,000 pastors or 12,000 pastors chose to be

not to be political and shrink back from top taking a heroic stand. The Nazis were successful and they were able to marginalize and hopefully get in. But it began with, you started with 12,000 pastors. You said there were 3,000. Well, no, no. There were 18. Actually, I didn't know this. I didn't know this until I wrote this book because I said the parallel to today is that when when the Nazis first took over, Bonhofer and a few heroes said, okay, we as the church must clearly speak against this Nazi regime. They're basically trying to destroy the church.

Now, it's different than it is here in America, but it's the same concept. They basically said, we're going to take over the church, we're going to crush the church, we're going to, whatever, whatever it is. Something similar is happening today. But in Bonhofer's day, the first thing they did was they wrote the famous Barman Declaration. And I write about that in the book. And in the Barman Declaration, they basically made clear that our allegiance as Christians is to the Church of Jesus Christ, and we will not allow the state, the National Socialist Nazi state, to take over the church. We have different views on certain things. We are the church. We don't have a racial view. The Nazis had a racial view of everything. On and on. So they write the Barman Declaration.

about 6,000 people sign it, I think, whatever. But two years into this, as this goes on, of the 18,000 Protestant pastors in Germany, only 3,000 of the 18,000 stood strongly with the Barman Declaration. Tons of them had been intimidated into silence. They said, we don't want to get in trouble. We're going to keep our mouth shut. Now, on the other end of the spectrum, out of this 18,000, you had 3,000 who were super, pro-Nazi who were happy to crush the confessing church, the people who signed the

barman declaration. So you've got 3,000 heroes, you've got 3,000 devils in the middle. You have 12,000 pastors who said, you know what, we're not going to take sides, we're going to be quiet, we're going to be silent. It is because of the silence of those 12,000 pastors that the 3,000 were not able to prevail, that they were the ones having to, to, to, fight the battles. It's kind of like when somebody gets canceled today and you just say, I'm not going to speak up. Let so-and-so get canceled. Let the hothead talk. And I'm just going to keep my job and keep my platform. And I'm not going to say anything I shouldn't say. So you had 12,000 pastors in Germany somehow persuaded that silence in the face of evil is the best path. And what I,

the case that I make, I try to make in the book is that it is because of the quiet, the silence of those 12,000 pastors that unbelievable evil was unleashed in Germany. If any of those, now let's be honest, of those 12,000, I'll bet you more than half knew that the Nazis were evil, knew. They knew this stuff, but they said, we're just going to be quiet. We're going to see which way the wind blows. Maybe it won't come from me. Maybe if I just keep my head down, the Nazis will leave me alone. And you see that same spirit in the church in America today. You have a lot of pastors thinking, look, I don't want to get involved in the controversy. I don't want people coming after me.

I might lose members of my congregation. I'm just going to keep quiet on all these issues. And you think, folks, how can you be quiet when you're dealing with issues that are just utterly anti-biblical in America? You could say many of them are fundamentally anti-American. We have Marxism, cultural Marxism, and various guys is taking over transgender, madness, that if you don't go along with the transgender madness, you're losing jobs, people losing jobs. And children's lives are being destroyed. And I think to myself, how can you be silent today? Well, the reason people, Christians in the church are being silent, they're saying,

you know what, let the other guy fight that battle. I don't want to be tagged. Well, yeah, and you know, part of the problem, and the key word here in this chapter, 12,000 pastors, is pastors. They were the leaders. They get up there. And if you, let's just say you have a congregation of 200 people. Your pastor is either not speaking about it or saying like, no, we're going to welcome this and that. You're sitting there saying like, well, if he who knows scripture and he's wiser and he's, if he's going to take that stand, I think differently, but I'm not going to speak up. But if you get up there and you start speaking, you encourage people and say like, listen, go out there, write the letter, run for office, you know, make a stand. Don't let this happen. So if your pastor,

who is a leader, is a strong leader. He's going to strengthen his flock. Right. If you want to take your Christianity seriously. Well, I mean, I think that's the one of the main points of the book is that people are hungry for truth and leadership. And somehow many Christian leaders have been persuaded to be quiet. They've been persuaded that to speak up on these issues is to get too political.

And I'm here to say, folks, that's not biblical. Don't agree with me. just because we agree politically. Forget it. I'm talking about what is biblical. And in the book, I am very clear that it is about what does God want us to do. We're going to go to another break. We'll be right back.

Albin is interviewing me. What happened? Stick around. With the overturn of Roe v. Wade, lots of companies are coming out saying they'll pay for employee abortion, travel, and expenses. Most of you've heard about some of these companies. you've decided to stop shopping or doing business there, but did you know that you most likely own stock in those companies through your 401Ks, IRAs, and other investment accounts?

Folks, this is a huge problem, and we need to do something about this to send a message to Wall Street through our investments. You need to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric and get a free Inspire Impact Report. This biblical investment analysis will educate you on what's really in your investment accounts, like companies paying for abortion travel.

You need to go to inspire advisors, com slash Eric to connect with an Inspire Advisors Financial Professional who can run your report and help remove companies paying for abortion travel today. Go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. That's inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Advisory services are offered through Inspire Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the SEC. My Pillow is excited to bring you their biggest betting sale ever in just in time for

Christmas. For a limited time, get the Giza dream bed sheets for as low as 2998. a set of pillowcases for only $9.98 and rejuvenate your bed with a my pillow mattress topper for as low as $99.99. They also have blankets and a variety of sizes, colors, and styles. They even have blankets for your pets, get duvets, quilts, downcomfitors, body pillars, bolster pillows, and so much more. All the biggest discounts of the year are happening right now, so don't miss out. They're also extending their money-back guarantee for Christmas until March 1, 2023, making them the perfect gifts for your friends, your family,

you know. So go to Mypillow.com and use promo code Eric or call 1-800-978-3057, and you'll get huge discounts on all my pillow betting products, including the Giza Dream Bedsheets for as low as 2998, and get all your shopping done now while quantities last. Again, use code Eric and Save MyPillow.com. Folks, welcome back at the Eric McAxis show, but I, Eric Mataxis am the guest being interviewed by Albin, my producer. I love it. I love it. It's great.

So, yeah, I wanted to, if you don't mind, there's a phrase I think it's so important. It kind of dovetails off of what we just talked about. And that's Spiral of Silence. Oh, the spiral of silence. Yeah, I get into this. Chuck Colson introduced me to this idea. I write a lot about Chuck Colson in the book because he created something with Robbie George and Timothy George, Beeson down in Birmingham, called him. Manhattan Declaration, kind of based on the Barman Declaration. This is, I guess it was 2009. They recognized what is happening now. They saw it back then, and they said, we need to write a, you know, a document that to get Christians to sign it so that as these things come to the fore, which they're now doing, that Christians will stand up. Well, Chuck was astonished at how many Christian leaders, this in 2009, refuse to sign the Manhattan Declaration. Now, when you talk about the spiral of silence, here's the key.

When you're quiet about something, if somebody says, you can't talk about vaccine passports, you can't talk about the negative effects of the vaccine, you can't talk about that the election was stolen, you can't talk about transgender stuff. If you want to work here, you've got to tow the line on this transgender stuff or on gay marriage or whatever it is that you're being told you can and cannot say, right? If you do not speak, if you're quiet, you are encouraging other people to be quiet. In other words, whatever you do is contagious. So if you're bold and you speak, you're emboldening others, people say, well, so-and-so said such and

such, thank you for saying that because that's what I was thinking, but I was kind of afraid to speak. Now I realize I really do need to speak up. Lives are at stake. Children are at stake. The future's at stake. If you're silent, especially pastors, Christian leaders, when you don't speak, you are encouraging other people to be quiet.

And when you encourage other people to be quiet, that encourages other people to be quiet, which encourages other people to be quiet. And it's a spiral of silence. It is exactly what happened in Germany. If the church in particular had spoken up in the beginning, it couldn't have happened. Right.

But they said, not yet. Let's be quiet. Let's not rock the boat. We're good Germans. We don't want to, let's give Hitler a chance. Let's just, you know. And because of their silence, they made it more and more difficult to speak up. So if you had spoken against the Nazis in the beginning, you could have gotten away with it.

The church had tremendous power. But every day, the silence made more silence follow so that by the time you're in 1935, 36, you wouldn't dare open your mouth because you're going to a concentration camp. So I talk about that. And I guess I want to talk about why many of those pastors, because this is what ties into America today. Why were they silent? Why? They all had these kind of religious answers, religious reasons. One of them, they said, Romans 13, it's very clear. We're not supposed to be political. Folks, that's nonsense. Romans 13 is not the be all and end all on this subject. It was

written under the Roman Empire, where you would be crucified and tortured. You had no rights. In America, we are deputized. We, the people govern ourselves. So, it's a completely different situation. But in any event, you could see how in Germany, they just said, oh, Romans 13, we're going to be quiet. We have a nice religious answer to cover our silence that we just want to preach the gospel. Some of them really believed that. And I really believe the same thing is happening today. You've got pastors writing books about how we shouldn't be political. And I think to myself, ladies and gentlemen, how can you avoid politics? The unborn, okay, are made in God's image. If I stand up for the unborn, plenty of people are going to say, you're just being political. You're just

trying to shove your values down my throat. I am commanded by God to speak the truth about the unborn. Wilberforce spoke the truth about the slave trade. Bonhofer spoke the truth about the Nazis. There are many people today in the American church who would say, oh, I would have stood with Wilberforce. Are you kidding? Everybody knows slavery is wrong. I would have stood with Bonhofer. Everybody knows the Nazis are right. Folks, let me tell you something. If you are not speaking up on these issues today, you're guilty of the people who did not stand with Wilberforce and who made his life infinitely more difficult. You're guilty of the people who did not stand with Bonhoeffer. The parallel is the same and the excuses are the same.

And what I'm trying to do in the book is to get people to see this. A couple of people have written books saying the exact opposite of what I'm saying in my book. One of them is Andy Stanley. He wrote a book called Not In It to Win It. ladies and gentlemen, I was astonished when I read the book. It is, look, it's just flat out wrong. I know he thinks he's right, but it's absolutely wrong. And when I say wrong, I say unbiblical, okay?

It's not biblical. If it was biblical, I would say, well, maybe I don't like it, but it's biblical. It's absolutely wrong. The idea that getting involved in politics, getting involved in the culture and speaking, is not the role of the church, is madness. We've made an idol of evangelism as though we can speak about nothing but, quote, unquote, the gospel. That is very confused, wrongheaded theology. But I got to tell you, I went on Amazon to look at his book.

There was a fulsome endorsement from my friend Jim Daly, a focus on the family. And that's when I thought to myself, many, many good people have been deceived into thinking this is the right path. And I want to say to these good people, folks, please reconsider because the nation's at stake, many good Germans, many wonderful German Christians got this wrong. Martin Niemuller, the hero. He got this wrong. And when he finally woke up, he knew, oh, it's too late.

I spoke up too late. If I would have spoken up a year ago, we could have saved Germany. from hell. And the fact of the matter is it was too late. And I really, as you said, Albin, I wrote this book because the parallels of the German church are astonishing. They had all these good religious reasons. We now know they were wrong, but do we now know that many of us are getting it wrong and that we have an obligation to speak up? Do we understand how bad things are? And do we understand that there are people really suffering in your congregations, outside of on, they are really suffering and they're going to suffer more and more and more if the church is silent on all of these issues.

I just want to say, I know we have to go to another break, but it's hard for me to, I just want to say lovingly, folks, consider what I'm saying in this book, because it is really only what Bonhoeffer was saying. And we saw what happened. People didn't heed his voice then. The church didn't heed his voice then. And the question is, will the American church heed his voice today? Okay, we'll be right back. Folks, welcome back to the Eric McAxas show. But I, Eric McAxas, oddly enough, am the guest.

The host is my producer, Albin. He's asking me questions of my new book, Letter to the American Church. And this was your idea, Albin. This was my idea. Because this is so powerful, very serious. And, you know, people out there are going to be like, well, how can I get involved? And what about my church? I'm in a church right now, and the pastor doesn't seem to get it.

One thing is the pastor needs to read this book. You need to read this book. But people that do get it. A couple pastors, because Anne and I, every Sunday, we go, most every Sunday, we go to Jonathan Kahn's church in Wayne, New Jersey. And he has a new book out. You interviewed him. Great book. It's kind of another angle on this. This is called Return of the Gods. And you've got to hear that interview. Anne and I watched it twice, by the way, that interview you did with Jonathan Kahn. Powerful stuff. Jonathan Kahn gets it. He's awoke, awake. Jack Hibbs, of course, Calvary Chapel. Well, look, let's be clear. Yeah. There are many pastors in the country who do get this. Yes. And half of them have become my friends at this point. But there are many that are still very, very shy about this.

They're afraid of losing members in their congregations. And I'm just thinking, folks, if you, you have to try to understand that. Nothing's new. The German pastors who were silent. It's so easy for us to point our fingers at them and say, oh, I wouldn't have been silent. Folks, they're no different than we are today. They had their good reasons. We now know they were wrong.

We now know those reasons were invalid. But they were not saying, hey, we don't care about the truth. We don't care about the. They were just misguided. And what I'm trying to say in this book is I'm trying to say, look at the parallels. Tell me what I'm missing. This is not an incendiary book design. to shame people. This is a, I hope, a loving message to people and saying, listen, good people can

get this wrong. Would you consider what I'm saying here? Would you consider what Bonhofer was saying? And would you, I mean, I guess to me the worst thing, Albin, is when I think about the German pastors who were silent, when they had to live through the hell of what happened. And then decades later, hanging their heads in shame, I just want to say, we don't want to be like that. We don't want to fail and then to hang our heads in shame for decades. So this is an opportunity. But I guess don't do it for yourself. Think about the people whose lives are being affected. Think about young women who are being persuaded that they're confused about whether they're woman or a man, they're having their breasts removed. They're having these things happening. And

my heart breaks. And if you care about these people who are being deceived and you don't speak up, what is the biblical view of this? How many genders does the Bible say, if you're not talking about that lovingly, if you're not talking about biblical view of sexuality, if you're not talking about how critical race theory is atheistic, the BLM movement is atheistic and marvellous, and marvellous, and Marxist and is going to destroy black lives. If you care about black lives, you are obliged because of the truth of what the scripture says to speak. And this is just what I'm hoping in the book is that people, I can reason with people in this book, because I'll just say this because I know we're out of time, but I will say that folks, the urgency, this is the key. It's like you may have

weeks, months, I don't know, but the silence of the American church is destroying this nation in the same way the silence of the German church destroyed the German nation. And if we do not understand this and repent and begin to speak, we will see horrible things. And we will, we will no longer have the ability to speak. So it's, it's, there's just no doubt, Albin, that this, I've written this book as a warning. I'm just, begging people to think about this. I hope people will give this book to their pastors. I know we're out of time, but I'm just grateful for your willingness to ask me some questions, folks.

Thanks for listening.