The Eric Metaxas Show - Lila Rose and Bob Woodson

Episode Date: July 29, 2021

Lila Rose highlights her book, "Fighting for Life"; then, civil-rights great Bob Woodson of 1776unites.org explains a better way to fight Critical Race Theory.

Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. This is exciting. I am at the NRB, and I get to talk to an old friend. She's extremely young, but she's an old friend. Her name is Lila Rose. I think of her just as a pro-life hero. Her new book is out.

It's called Fighting for Life, becoming a Force for Change in a Wounded World. Lila, welcome. Thanks, Eric. Now, since I last saw you and talked to you, you got married and you had a kid and you have another one on the way. So you've been a little busy. A little bit. I'm astonished. What is your married name?

My married name is Spence. Spence. So it's Lila Rose Spence, but we know where is Lila Rose. Lila, I'm very excited for you that you've been married, that you have a kid, you have one on the way, and now you have a book out. Is this your first book? It is. I've always thought, like, why don't you write a book? So thank you for writing a book because your story...

Just for you, Eric. Thank you. Because your story needs to be in book form. And I guess I want to talk about... It's a great title, by the way, Fighting for Life. Thomas Nelson, great publisher. I want to hear your story before we get into the book. Do you tell your story in this book at all?

So, yes, the book is part story, part lessons, like an activist manual, for how does anybody make a difference in the world, especially when they're fighting for a hostile cause. Right. So then what is your story? And I mean, you've told it to me before, but for my audience, how did you get involved? Where did you grow up? And how did you get involved in the life movement?

Sure. So I'm from San Jose, California. You grew up in the heart of Silicon Valley, one of eight kids. And I was heartbroken by abortion at a young age. I found out about it by reading this history book as a kid. My parents had so many books in their house growing up. And the book had these images in the centerfold, which were images of children who were victims of abortion.

And so you see this when you're a kid, and I was already really interested in justice issues, evil, right and wrong. I kind of had this very sensitive heart. And when I saw this image of this baby first trimester, you can see the humanity of the baby. I mean, it's all there. The child's, you can see the arms, legs, face, torn apart by a suction abortion. I was heartbroken, and I was really interested.

How does this happen? Where does it happen? And I studied it and started to read the book and learn. and you find out all of a sudden 3,000 abortions a day. No one's really talking about this growing up in my church community. It was like never talked about. When you say 3,000 abortions a day, can you guys hear me? All right.

When you say 3,000 abortions a day and you talk about seeing these images, how old were you when you saw the abortion images? So nine years old when I first opened that book, and then in my... Nine years old. And so already at that point, you had a sense of what this is. Had your parents talked to you about what abortion is? Not really. I mean, they were pro-I-I-I- mean, they had eight kids.

They're pro-life, right? There were ultrasound images of my little sister on the fridge and my younger siblings. Okay. So there was the humanity of the baby was like part of the family. But I was, you get into an age at a kid and everybody has this experience, whether it's done to them, God forbid, evil's done to them, or they learn about evil. And you suddenly realize there's evil in the world.

And I was at this age where I was learning about evil in the world. I was reading about the Holocaust. I was reading about American history and our evils in our history. And when I read about abortion, I was like, wow, evil is not just in the past. It's happening today. And it seems like society is accepting it today. And so that inspired me to want to do something about it. If anybody knows you today, they know you as a pro-life activist who got involved very young.

So you're saying that the issue came to you when you were nine years old. When did you decide I'm going to do something about this? Probably 11. I did my first thing, which was to put up posters around my grocery store telling people to vote for life. I couldn't vote yet. I was 11 years old. When you were 11, I love this. You were 11 years old and you're like a pro-life activist at age 11. I mean, this is not a joke. This is, you did this. Well, I mean, I was really fascinated by history. I was looking at all these, I had Corey Ten Boom as a hero.

You know, when you have heroes like that, people who literally gave their lives for other people. gave their lives for other people and endangered themselves for the sake of the innocent in their own communities. You think going and putting up a poster at your grocery store is not that controversial. You know what I'm saying? So I, I, and my parents, God bless them. We were homeschooled. So there was this really independent, fierce independent sense that they instilled in us. Yeah. We could kind of do anything. You know, there wasn't really any like, um, anything off limits as far as what we could accomplish. Right. And so I didn't feel some of the natural maybe fears,

but I did have to face fears myself as a teen starting live action. And when I first started it as a teenager, I didn't imagine it would become what it is today, you know, a global educational leader for the pro-life movement. So wait, so you started live action, which is the organization of which you are the head. You started as a teenager. Right. So became official at 15. My parents' living room. We're going to educate the teens of San Jose, California.

So at age 15, you decide I want to start an organization. Who does that? not I, but at age 15 you start this organization. It's just funny to me, how God makes everyone so differently, just the idea that you knew you wanted to do this. And then all these years later, you're obviously still doing this. I mean, you're still young, but when you start at 15, it's just amazing. Well, I think the whole reason I wrote this book is for the last 10 years,

I've had probably thousands of women, young women I've talked to over the years, speaking across the country, across the world, and they say, how did you do it? you know, how do you get started? How do you have the courage? And I wanted to say, listen, I didn't always have the courage. I didn't have a roadmap when I was starting out of exactly what to do. I just took the next right step. And so the book is 27 lessons from what are the steps that I took.

And part of it's wrestling with your own struggles. Because if you want to be a force for change in the world and go out there and help and serve others, you have to also address what's hurting or wrong in your own heart. Right. It's both and, and that's the, I think that's the holistic view of activism. It's not just external change. internal change. I have to ask, maybe it's an obvious, it is an obvious question, but now that you're a mother, I mean, because again, when I met you, you were single, now you're a mother. It's got to bring a new dimension of this issue to you, to having carried a human being in your womb. And in fact, as we sit here doing this interview, you're carrying another human being in your womb. I mean, it's amazing how suddenly,

this is your life. You're not talking about other women. This is you. I mean, I look at my son. He's 18 months old now, and I look into it as this beautiful little innocent face, and I'm like, how can I not double down on this fight for life? Because this is his future. Now it's tangible in this little person that I'm entrusted with. My husband and I are entrusted with, and our culture is really struggling.

You know this. I mean, you talk about this a lot, Eric. But the solution, I think, is strong families. You know, the solution is loving each other, building our communities. I mean, the culture battle is more about culture build is what's needed. And that's why I'm so grateful to be blessed with the family, because that's my best contribution in the end. Better than any of my activism is going to be how much I love my family. Right.

And so you said you were raised in a large family of what, eight kids? Eight kids. Well, it's amazing to me because that's, you know, having experienced it, there's something really wonderful about that. And most kids today don't get to experience that. It is wonderful having this family culture. It does something in a way. Now, the title of this book is amazing.

Fighting for Life, that is a great title. You know that. I'm a writer. That's a really good title. It's excellent. I'm going to steal it. Albin, make a note. She doesn't own it.

It's Fighting for Life, too. It's Fighting for Life. Eric Mattis. Son of Fighting for Life. But it is a great title. And so what do you mean by it other than fighting for the unborn? Do you mean something else by it? Yes.

So the story, I get really personal in fighting for life. I share about my own struggle with depression as a teen and self-harm. That even led to a point of suicidal ideation because I was really struggling. And I had this realization, if I don't fight for my own life and my own worth and see it before God and get the help I need, how can I help anybody else? So there's that story in the book. There's also the story of my little sister who, actually attempted suicide and she let me share her story she's very open about it and her story being transformed by choosing life when she experienced an unplanned pregnancy so it's much more than

a political fight it's a personal fight and we each have to fight it fight for our lives and the lives of those we love well yeah so if your sister had an unplanned pregnancy this is real it's not theoretical um and i didn't know that you had struggled with with depression uh to the extent that you just mentioned. I don't know it at all. I've been public about my own struggles, and I love it when people are public, because everybody thinks it's just them, and there's so many people that have been dealing with that. So thanks for talking about that. We're going to go to a break. When we come back, we'll talk more with Lila Rose. The book is Fighting for Life. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and

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world. So how is the battle for the unborn different today than it was when you began your organization? It's so different in a good way. I mean, there's so many more voices, younger voices, speaking out for change and on behalf of the pre-born and mothers. The abortion rate has declined in the last 10 years to, in some ways, historic lows. Pro-life legislation is at an all-time high at the state level unprecedented pro-life legislative gains. And what do you attribute that to? I think it's a lot of factors, but primarily it's the energy and enthusiasm of the fight. I mean, there's millions. I mean, Live Action has five and a half million people following us, following along.

And we have other people. The organization, Live Action, has how many? Myself and Live Action, we have over 5.5 million people following our work. And, you know, 15 million people reaching weekly with our work. And these are mostly young people, young women. Right. So that's the backbone of our movement. And I just seen, that didn't exist 10 years ago.

And it's exciting to be a part of that and watch other pro-life groups be founded and grow and do amazing work serving mothers in need and families as well as educating and getting involved in politics. I think I was at the pro-life March a few years ago, and I remember saying that I think that the trend, part of the reason the trend has been changing is because of science. In other words, ironically, we know things today that we didn't know. We have ultrasounds. You have pictures of your unborn siblings on the refrigerator. And so it's not a thesis.

you can see actually that this is a person, this is my brother, this is my sister, this is my grandchild. It's become a thing. Technology has enabled us to see the humanity of the unborn. And so science, the more we know from science and the more technology we have, the more clear it is that this is a person. And obviously in 1973 it was very easy to talk about it as a bunch of cells or as a blob or something. it's less easy to do that. Yeah, I mean, the science is crystal clear. All the embryologists and human biologists agree that life begins at fertilization, a unique, innocent human life begins then.

And it's also the democratization of information. Like social media and the Internet has made the institutions that were gatekeepers of information less powerful. And unfortunately, in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the institutions were corrupted and became super pro-abortion. I mean, the American Medical Association, a lot of school systems, universities, media, So to have the independent voices online telling the truth is what gives me hope for our generation. It's challenging, isn't it, when you think about the medical establishment, we, I guess most of us have grown up taking it for granted that they're good guys. And we forget that they're human beings.

And so when they get in bed with a particular philosophy, we initially don't think about it. We just assume, well, they're doctors they know best. I mean, we've given them a kind of authority in this culture, and that's waned dramatically. We've seen that with the COVID mess, that these are, in many cases, very compromised individuals. And it's in some ways heartbreaking to think of them as less than they ought to be. Well, I mean, it's happened historically, tobacco. The doctors were bought and sold by the tobacco industry, and they were, you know, in the early 20th century, they were telling you tobacco is good for you, you know. I'm smoking is good for you.

So the medical association, a medical community is not above corruption, and it happens, and we have to call it out. And the good news is there are good doctors calling it out. I mean, there's thousands of pro-life obstetricians gynecologists in the group called APlog. We work with them often and get their voices out there. Are they represented in the mainstream? No, because most of the mainstream is so pro-abortion. But that can change.

With enough education and one person changing at a time, that can change, and I think it is changing. When you talk about young people being activists in this, it seems then that that would have not been the case 20 years ago. So this is a new thing. I think it's definitely grown. I think there were some 20 years ago, but now it's bigger and stronger than ever. And that's why pro-life public opinion is strong,

despite the fact that the rest of the culture is so toxic to life. And where are we politically? In other words, there have been cases around the country, heartbeat bills and things. I think it can be confusing. In other words, if Roe v. Wade says that the law of the land is abortion on demand, how is it the states can get in between that? Like, I'm not really clear on that. Right. Well, KC.V. Planned Parenthood. So that was a case after Roe v. Wade basically said you can ban abortion after viability.

Before that would place this, quote, unquote, undue burden on a woman is the legalese that they used. And so when these bills are passed to ban abortion at the heartbeat, being detected, that's just, seven weeks, six weeks, they're going to get challenged, and they do get challenged, so they can't go into effect. Here's the good news, though. As you may know, the Supreme Court recently agreed to take up the 15-week ban from Mississippi. This is pre-viability before the baby is old enough to survive outside the wound with medical intervention, and I don't think they would have taken that case unless they're going to support that ban at 15-week abortions. Is that sufficient? No, every abortion is a murder and should be banned, but it's a step in the right direction. So I'm hopeful that

the more the Supreme Court pays attention to these laws and if they uphold them, then states can start to finally protect their citizens like they're supposed to do. Well, it's an amazing thing. I mean, it reminds me, you know, since I wrote the book on Wilberforce Amazing Grace, I, you know, remember when I was writing that thinking how Wilberforce was willing to be incremental. In other words, of course, he would have liked to ban slavery. But before they could get there in 1807, there were many laws to improve the situation. And simply by doing that, you educate the populace on what this is because you're talking about it.

And they begin looking into the details of it. And that's exactly what happens. And if you're talking about a child at 15 weeks, suddenly people think about what is a child at 15 weeks? And when they hadn't given it a moment's thought before that. Now, given the new Supreme Court, the new justices that are in, do you think Roeville? Roe v. Wade could be overturned in the next few years. Do you think it's possible? Do you think, how would that happen? It's definitely possible. The Roe v. Wade case law is so bad. Even pro-abortion legal experts say it's so bad. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't hold together. It's a constantly

shifting precedent why abortion is of so-called woman's right. It's not. It's killing a child. But, you know, that takes intellectual clarity and courage from the Supreme Court justices. And they're, you know, typically the Supreme Court really tries to be very moderate. They don't like to do anything dramatic. They definitely don't like to undo past precedent. That's only been done a handful of times in American history, right, to write the wrongs like Dred Scott and other terrible cases like that. So I think it's going to be a hard push for them, but I think that someone like Justice Clarence Thomas has it in him, the courage and the clarity, the intellectual clarity, and with the right leadership on the court, they should undo the damage of row. They should just say

this is an invented human right to kill a child, doesn't exist. The state has an interest to protect these children. The 14th Amendment ensures equal protection under the law that should be for all humans, including pre-born humans. They're not, you know, less than a born human. Do I think they're going to do that with this case? I think that would be a long shot just because they're kind of timid by nature. A lot of these justices and some of them are just outright lefties. Are you just too nice to say cowardly? That's another correct word to use. Well, look, the fact that they were unwilling to look at the evidence in the election fraud, that was a staggering thing. Because nobody says how you have to rule.

rule. But would you look at the evidence? The fact that they wouldn't even look at the evidence, it's a chilling thing, really, that they are already playing politics. They're already abandoning their roles as arbiters of the Constitution when they do things like that. So they are human beings and they are capable. And something like that, that's a debate. There's two sides of that debate. But when it comes to human life, life is life. There's no debate on when life begins. I mean, this shouldn't even be a matter. You don't get to legislate away the right to live of a whole group of people. But that's what the Supreme Court did in 1973, it needs to be undone.

For a second there, I forgot I was talking to Lila Rose. It's kind of funny because you see this in black and white. Of course, it is black and white, but very few people rarely, people rarely phrase it. Life and death is black and white. Your debt or you're live? There's no in between. I mean, I think the issue recently, was it the president or Jen Saki or who was it that said, and Nancy Pelosi, whether they won't answer.

They refuse to answer whether it is a human. being at 15 weeks because they know there's only one correct answer but if they admit it yeah it undoes their entire justification for a right I mean I look I think it's safe to say that they know it's a human being and they still think abortion is fine and they they just they they qualify it in their minds they don't you know they don't they don't see life as sacred right and I I think that all the conversations that we've been having it's all to the good more and more people are hearing about this hearing the arguments and you know

and I know that people make up their own minds. They listen, and they know it's a baby. And so I think that there is, I'm very hopeful, frankly. Let me just ask you, though, when you said that the abortions have decreased, we just got less than a minute, what, can you give us any statistics on that? Yeah, so for years they were topping a million abortions. And now, according to the numbers from Gutmacher Institute, this is Planned Parenthood's own research arm,

we're down to 800-ish thousand a year, and that's been dropping. So we're down hundreds of thousands of abortions in the last two decades, and that's an amazing success, life saved. It's fantastic. We're out of time. Lila Rose, congratulations on this book, fighting for life, becoming a force for change in a wounded world by Lila Rose. Lila, thank you.

Thank you, Eric. Hey there, folks. Guess what? Yes. Did you guess? I have as my guest, Mr. Bob Woodson. He is part of 1776 Unites and the Woodson Center. Bob, I get hope just looking at your face. You just cheer me up because I know you're a sane

voice in the midst of the madness. Okay, I want to talk to you about critical race theory. You identify as a black male. Is that right? Yes. Okay. That's most of your life. You're in your seventh decade here as a black male. So you speak from some experience in the civil rights world before it went crazy and woke. You wrote an article at the Policy Review called A Better Way to Fight Critical Race Theory. What's your thesis in this article? The Cetheists is not, first of all, the so-called anti-racists are the new racist. Let's be very clear.

They are propagating a theory that harkens back to the days of racism. where they're saying that we should be judged not by the content of our character, but by the color of our skin. It was an esoteric kind of debate on campuses for many years. But then right after the George Floyd and other incidents, the radical left has migrated into the public domain and using it now as an instrument to attack American whites, attack democracy, is being used as a, pervasive strategy to really undermine the values and principles of the nation. All in the name of social justice. And of course, let's just be clear that what they're trying to do is they're trying to get

people to think racially. In other words, if I see you as a white guy, you see me as a white guy, I see you as a black guy. When you see that first and when you focus on that, it makes you a racialist, whether whether we're racists or not, the point is it makes you look through the lens of race, which you and I know as Christians, as Americans, we know that that's wrong. No matter where it goes, no matter where it's coming from, there's something unhealthy about it. And it undermines our unity as Americans. It undermines our unity as believers. So I think that's the first thing that needs to be said. And if people say, what's wrong with critical race theory? The first thing I would say,

that encourages people to think about race more and not less? It really does, but it's destructive to all Americans, particularly black Americans, because what it's really saying is that personal responsibility has no role in our future, that all Americans who are white are privileged and therefore guilty of white supremacy and all blacks of victims to be pitied and patronized. And where do you go from there once you begin to do? And so, but the pushback from that is not to ban it. What we should do is the best disinfectant is sunshine.

So what we should do is challenge those who are propagating this destructive theory to prove how does it improve the quality of life of the people. either black, white, brown. How does it improve the quality of life? Does it increase performances in schools? And so does it promote the kind of unity that we need to address the problems confronting America? Okay. So no matter what you think of the actual theory, the question is, does it work? And the answer is no.

But, I mean, couldn't anybody guess that? It feels like anything that comes out of cultural Marxism, already, you know, it's inherently destructive. They will never build the utopia they talk about. They want to destroy what we already have. But they have never, in the history of Marxism, whether economic Marxism or cultural Marxism, they never seem to get there. And they pretend that we're in this struggle eventually will get there. But you and I know that the reason we have cultural Marxism is because standard Marxism failed.

That in China even, they know it doesn't work. They can't work on that economic system. But now, you know, they're saying, but let's try this. But you're saying this will never bring the harmony they're pretending. No. And like I say, and the best way to combat it, first of all, is to confront white. There are two groups of people, I guess, who bothered me the most, Eric. There are self-flagellating, guilty white people and rich, angry, entitled black people

who exploit this grievance. And also it's been like a parasite on the rich tradition of the civil rights movement. It's destructive to all Americans. But some people are well-intended but misguided. They believe that somehow because of the shootings of police officers on a small number of blacks, they are saying this is an example of injustice towards blacks.

and therefore critical race theory is a response to injustice. And that's, it's false and it's not true. And so what our way of combating it is to allow the people in whose name, they say they are acting, low-income black people, to speak for themselves. 80% of them are against defunding the police. Wait, wait, wait, every time somebody says something like that, I've got to stop everything. Say that again, because that is unconstitutional. Unbelievable. I've never heard that. Go ahead.

80% of black people polled are against defunded police. 60% of blacks polled when asked, to what extent is racial discrimination a barrier to a successful future? 60% say, not at all. And that's why the best way to confront critical race theory, Eric, is to give a microphone to the people in whose name they say they're acting. That's why we're going to come back. I want to pick up on that. Folks, I'm talking to Bob Woodson. You need to know who he is. We'll be right back. Hey, the folks. I'm talking to Bob Woodson. Bob Woodson with 1776 Unites and the Woodson Center. So Bob, you said the best way to fight critical race theory is to give a microphone

to the people it claims to speak for, black people in America. Absolutely. And that's what we have done at the Witson Center. Sylvia Benderstone is a woman, a mom who lost her teenage daughter to urban violence many years ago, and she has taken that hurt and that pain and turned it into a positive force, and she's now working for the Witson Center, and she has organized 2,500 other moms like herself from around the country, and they're called the voices of Black Mothers United. And they are clearly, we took out a full-page ad in USA Today supporting the police. Two weeks ago, they had a conference where they invited police officers to come with the various moms, and they spent a day and a half discussing ways that they can better cooperate and have that communities protected.

But again, mainstream media will not publish this. And so we are reaching out to other police officers, and they have come together in five cities, Eric, to cooperate. And as a result of this level of cooperation, homicide closure rates have improved because these mothers have worked with the police to generate respect and trust to build bridges of trust between the police and urban community. and that movement is spreading. So the left does not represent, these people do not represent black folks. Well, look, I already knew that, of course, but we realize that when someone who is black

talks the way you're talking, they're marginalized. You're not invited on to NBC. They just don't want to hear from you. So we really have a media and a culture, in effect, nominated by leftists, and they do not want to acknowledge that you exist. I was talking to, I don't know if you know, C.L. Bryant. I was with him in Birmingham, Alabama this weekend. And I thought, I've not heard of him before. There's so many people, black Americans, who think utterly differently

than they are, you know, supposed to think, quote unquote, according to folks like Biden. And you don't hear from them. That ultimately, Bob, strikes me as at the heart of our difficulties in the country, is that people think that if you're black in America, you think this way. And you're here to say, no, that's not true. But there's so many others like you that I know, whether it's Clarence Thomas or Herschel Walker, you know, but they never appear outside of, quote, unquote, conservative media. No, but I also think conservatives who really believe in the nation, they need to invest, the way the left invest in the naysayers. We really need some major investments so that these

voices of Black Mothers United and others, we would like to have the money so that we can have weekly commercials that celebrate heroic actions undertaken by police to protect and save that serve their community. Well, this is, look, it's one of the reasons I have you on this program is I hope there's somebody out there listening, some millionaires or billionaires. who say, I want to help, where can I go? What can I do? One of the reasons that I have, as I said, is I want people to know about the Woodson Center because many people just don't know what to do. And I think the least you can do if you have money is write a check to somebody who's on the right side of this and who's making an effort. You guys have done tremendous things,

but I can only imagine trying to compete for money in this insane world is not easy. It is true. Because we're critical of the race grievance industry and the poverty pimps, people on the left do not fund us. But we are speaking out telling the truth. But we have real remedies, Eric. I'm talking now to a community-based group of ex-offenders and people who want to come up with internal strategy. But the cure has to come from within. White people can't do anything about the self-destructions that is going on in the black community. But what we're trying to do at the Woodson Center is to demonstrate to the nation that we can create an island of peace

in some of the most violent drug-infested neighborhoods. We've done it before 23 years ago in Washington, D.C. The Woodson Center worked with a group called the Alliance of Concernment, and we went into a gang area that had a 53 murders and a five-square-block area in two years. And as a result of our community-based intervention, violence, it went from 53 in two years to zero in 12 years in that community. So we've demonstrated if you invest in healing agents within the community suffering the problem, then we can really reduce the violence and promote harmony in these communities. It has nothing to do. White America can do nothing to address the critical problems facing us today.

Well, it's interesting because you've been doing this for a long time, and you know where of you speak. I hadn't known you until the Colson Center gave you the Wilberforce Award a few years ago. And I'm always astonished when I meet somebody like you and I think, how have I missed this person? And it's because the world in which we live, let's be honest, that in the mainstream media, they allow people, you know, whether it's going back to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or any of these race hustlers, somehow they have persuaded foolish white liberals that they speak for black Americans. They don't speak for black Americans. I know that you do. But we're in a big battle in the media. We really are, but somebody asked Mother Teresa one time, wasn't she frustrated that she's not more successful

because there are 3 million people who need her. She can only minister to 300. And she said, God doesn't require a success with faithfulness. And so we believe, we are trying to be faithful to the remedies that we know work. And we're just hoping and praying that the resources will be made available for us so we can demonstrate to the nation that these troubled black communities can be healed through God's grace, but the healing must come from within the healing agents that are indigenous to these communities. And appointing the accused and finger at white America and systemic racism is somehow related to these problems. You know what? If you're white and feeling really guilty, here's what you do.

a big check to the Woodson Center. Bob identifies as black, and he will receive it as a black man from your white bank account. We'll be right back. Sticking here with Bob Woodson. Because I know this can't be real. Hey there, folks. It's incumbent upon me to remind you that Nutrimetics.com is one of our sponsors. If you use the code, Eric, you save 20% with them.

Nutrametics.com will ship to black people, to white people. They don't ask your race. They're a colorblind organization. Nutrametics.com use the code Eric. Now, Bob, I got to talk to you about why do you have hope? I'm talking to Bob Woodson, 1776, the Knights in the Woodson Center. You're a black man in a world that has gone crazy where race hustlers and cultural Marxists have tried to take over the conversation with regard to race in America. So what gives you hope that what you're doing matters at the Woodson Center? People are motivated when they know victories that are possible, not by injuries to be avoided. And reading your work about the Clackham group in the 18th century in England, just 20 people. Just to be clear, in my book Amazing Grace, which is about William Woolbforce, he had a group around him that they call them the Clapham group because they lived in Clapham. But you're right.

It was just 20 or so people, they changed the world. They changed the whole nation. Even though Britain's economic interests was on the side of maintaining slavery, they persuaded them to change. And I believe our group, the Woodson Center, can have the same cultural impact that the Clackham Group had. And so that's my motivation. So that's why I believe we can make the change. When I talk about Wilberforce and my book Amazing Grace, a lot of people are aware of it, a lot of people aren't.

But I always say that the reason that I want to talk about Wilberforce is because it gives us hope that a handful of people genuinely changed things so dramatically. You almost can't believe it. It seems made up. But it was their hearts were right before God. They tried to do things. But it is about networks. I mean, you know, the fact is that, you know, you work with other people. it's not just about you.

And networks sometimes are important so that we know I'm not crazy. There are a whole bunch of people here working with me as you have at the Woodson Center who know that this is the way to go. And that's why I want people to know that you guys are there. Now, are you just in the D.C. area? Where is the Woodson Center physically? The Woodson Center's headquarters is in Washington, D.C., but we have 2,500 grassroots leaders in 39 states,

black, white, red, brown, who are part of our network, our family of healing agents, or Josephs, as we call them. They are an army ready to be, they are the cultural insurgents who still believe in the values and virtues of this founding values and virtues of this country. They are real believers. We're just, we want to arm them. They are their new patriots. I just hope that somebody who has a burden for this issue will go to the Woodson Center website and try to connect, whether with you in D.C. or with some of these branches, because people really need hope. They need to understand that there are others who see what they see and who are working toward real solutions, not just saying this doesn't matter. This really does matter. We've only got a minute left, Bob. What should we

leave my listeners with? Let them know that there is a consensus. among low-income black America that America is worth fighting for. And they are real patriots. And I think if America's going to be saved, it's going to be done because of low-income blacks around the country

who have risen up in saying, this is our land, and we are going to protect it. And that's America. That is so powerful. I mean, I literally tell people, the reason I voted for Donald Trump

is because I care about poor, urban communities, minority communities. If you care about those kids and you just want a virtue signal and go with the Democrats, you're a hypocrite and God sees what you're doing. Folks, we need to do what works, not just what makes you, you know, feel like a hero in your white country club or wherever it is you are or online. Bob Woodson, I just love talking to you. Folks, go to Woodson Center where 1776 Unites. Bob, thank you for everything you do. Thank you, Eric.