The Eric Metaxas Show - Liz Wheeler - Part 2

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Liz Wheeler, podcaster and author of "Tipping Points," continues her conversation with Eric, sharing thoughts on why the Left feels they can get away with just about anything these days.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, he has a jar of peanut butter, and he's not afraid to use it. Here comes Eric Mattaxas. Hey, we're starting the show now, and here's the good news. get to continue my conversation from yesterday with Liz Wheeler today. Does that make any sense?

Liz, welcome back. Thank you, Eric, for having me. There's so much I want to talk to you about. There are things in the news we should talk about. We've got to talk about my pillow. We've got to talk about the Alliance Defending Freedom. Why don't we start there? Yesterday, our friends at the Alliance Defending Freedom were at the Supreme Court arguing this. case for religious liberty, it seems that everything, you know, in other words, no matter what the Constitution says, you have to keep defending it because they're going to be crazy people in places like Colorado who are just going to do whatever they want and the state government's going to be fine with it. And then you have to go to the Supreme Court. Otherwise, you've got to deal with

their Marxist madness in places like Colorado. That's basically what's going on in this case. It is. It's sort of a repeat of the Jack Phillips Masterpiece Cake Shop, except in that case, I blame the Supreme Court a little bit. They ruled so narrowly in the Masterpiece Cake Shop case that it only applied to Jack Phillips. It wasn't something that established a precedent that said, okay, well, a religious person like this florist, I believe she is, this florist is allowed to exercise her religious beliefs in the workplace without facing a lawsuit from the state over their anti-discrimination act. And the Supreme Court at that time could have said this applies to everyone. Instead, what they actually ruled in the masterpiece cake shop case was that Jack Phillips had been treated with animus by the state. So they didn't comment or set any precedent on religious freedom. This case is sort of, I would call it, a retrial of that same principle. Hopefully it will lead to a little bit of a broader ruling.

And I don't think it's a florist. I think Baranel Stutzman was the florist, and that was a previous case. This one is a website creator. That's right. That's right. But what I find fascinating really is, again, like the Supreme – I mean, sorry, the Constitution and this nation have always been super clear that we cannot force people to say things they don't want to say, to do things they want to do. It's a free country, and if you have religious beliefs, they're sacred. But in places like Colorado, they're challenging that, which is just kind of astonishing because, you know, they're only challenging it with Christians.

They don't challenge it with Muslims. They don't say to a Muslim baker, hey, bake a cake, you know, celebrating the nation of Israel or we'll take you to court or we'll see. You know, they seem to target Christians, and this is going on and on and on and on. And it really does seem like there's animus. There are people in Colorado who just hate Christians and Christian values, and they decide to come after these people. But thank God for the lines defending freedom because they're defending them. Yeah, I mean, because what happens is this giant political apparatus on the left, who do, of course, have anti-Christian objectives.

They come after individuals who don't have the budget or sometimes the legal representation, the political knowledge, to fight back on this. I mean, they're business owners. They're small business owners who own their own business. It's such an evil thing that they're doing. It seems to me, now, there might be constitutional law attorneys listening to this that say, wait a second, Liz, you're missing something.

But it seems to me to be a very cut and dry case. When you have the First Amendment of the Constitution that prohibits the federal government from in any way violating the free exercise of religion. And then you have a state whose law prohibits the free exercise of religion in the workplace. That seems to me a very obvious ruling that the state is not allowed to do that because the Constitution prohibits it. I know states have a lot of leverage when it comes to additional laws that they're allowed to enact on their people. They do have the right to have tighter rules in their state than the federal government is allowed to have at the federal level. But what the states are not allowed to do is they're not allowed to abridge the freedoms that are guaranteed in the Constitution.

Am I missing something or is this case this obvious? But here's the point, I think. When you don't have the truth on your side, you don't ask yourself, you know, is this right or true? Because you don't care about the truth. You care about power. And so what you do is kind of like a criminal. A criminal looks at a bank and says, could we rob the bank? They don't say, is it wrong to steal? Can we get away with it? Can we get away with it? And so in places like Colorado, and this is going on in various ways all around the country and around the world, people look at a situation. They say, well, we don't care about truth. We don't care about right or wrong. We don't care about the country. Well, we just care. Can we pull this off? And in places like Colorado, you can pull this. I mean, it's exactly like Putin saying, we have a dottering cipher in the White House. Could we?

We maybe go into the Ukraine now. What do you say, guys? It's like, yeah, if you don't do it now, it's not going to happen. They're not asking, is it right or wrong? They're asking, could I do it now? Can I get away with that? I mean, this is what the Democrats do at the federal level. Think about what Biden did with the attempt to cancel student loan debt.

He knew that was illegal. Nancy Pelosi literally said last year that the chief executive, the president of the United States, does not have the unilateral authority to just erase student loan debt. Nancy Pelosi said that. Fast forward this year, right before the election, when they needed to bulk up young people voting in the midterm elections for Democrats, Biden made this promise. You vote for us. I'll give you this free stuff. They knew it wasn't going to stand, but it wasn't until after the election that the court said, oh, no, you're not allowed to do that. Well, they'd already collected all of those votes. So it was a question, not of what's right or wrong, not of what's good or bad policy, but what would trick people into voting for them. That's exactly right. And so to me, states like Colorado, they figure we can pull this off. And it's like, okay, let them sue us. But in the meantime, we're going to have a chilling effect. We're going to try to bully people and small businesses.

And that's basically what they do. But you're right. It is open and shut. All this stuff is open and shut. It's the simplest thing. But these folks don't care about what is right or true or constitutional any more than, you know, the head of China cares about should we morally take over Taiwan or should we enslave the Uighur. The question is, what can we get away? with because they don't believe in truth or goodness or anything. They believe in power.

And that's what we're dealing with. And so increasingly now we rely on folks like the heroes at the Alliance defending freedom to stand up to this because unless somebody stands up to it, you know, the Supreme Court can't rule unless you come and you go there and you argue. So this should be simple. But maybe, Liz, when they did not rule as broadly as they might have in the Jack Phillips case, maybe the court was not quite as conservative, maybe now because of Kavanaugh and the whole coterie of actual constitutionalists, maybe they will rule in a way that is more helpful in the future. Yeah, if I may indulge in a little prediction here, if you look at the makeup of the Supreme Court, Justice Roberts is a squish, but he's actually

decent on religious liberty. Not perfect. Depends on how hot button up a topic it is. He's okay. Amy Coney Barrett, you can pretty much count on. Thomas, you can pretty much count on. Pretty much. Alito. He's a rock. You can, yes. Alito is another rock.

Count on for this one, though. So that's three and a half, I would say. Kavanaugh, he prefers judicial restraint. He prefers to rule in a very narrow sense. He doesn't want to be a precedent setting justice, at least if you

analyze his views. He shares that a little bit with Roberts. Roberts also tries to rule in as narrow way as possible. He's just a little more politically influenced, I think. I think that this case has a good chance of securing a majority in favor of religious liberty, especially because of the masterpiece cake shop, because of that narrow ruling, because of the cultural backlash that ensued afterward. Not that Supreme Court justices should take that into account, but they're human and we know that they do. Like I said, if I may indulge in a prediction, I think that this could go our way and in a big way. I think it must, actually, because it is so black and white, as you were saying in the beginning, it's extremely basic. And it's almost, well, it's not almost, it is shocking that there are some

people who don't get that and who are willing to play this game in places like Colorado. So I hope that that it goes well. I mean, listen, we have to restore this republic. I mean, we have, you know, it's kind of like open borders. We've got all these holes that, legally speaking, have to be, the parts of the wall have to be rebuilt because you can't live life in America if you're constantly worrying about somebody coming after you because they don't like you or like your values or whatever it is. Folks, speaking of values, we're asking you to go to metaxis talk.com. and click on the CSI banner and free a slave in the southern Sudan. This is literally happening, and you can do something about it,

and we're going to keep asking you to do what you can. We'll be right back with Liz Wheeler. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis, and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed, and when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise.

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a gold-backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metals safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at LegacyPMinvestments.com. Big bright, shiny yellow sun. I'm talking to Liz Wheeler. Hi, Liz. Hi, Eric. I hear you're the host of the Liz Wheeler's show.

You've heard correctly, yeah, they just coincidentally titled the show, found me, fit in perfectly. It's just amazing. Amazing. Amazing. They say we've got to find someone named Liz Wheeler. we do it and here you are. Although you'd be surprised at how many people share my name in this country. Well, that's true.

Not many people have my name, which is Eric Metaxus. It's a freakish, teutonic, Hellenic combination. Usually, if you have a surname Metaxus, you're definitely not going to be named Eric. But my mother's German, so I'm named after my grandfather, my mother's side, and so on and so forth. All right, we've got to talk about the news of the day, what's going on right now. let's talk about the Republican National Committee headed by Rana McDaniel, who is what,

she's the niece of Mitt Romney. Mitt. Yeah. Mitt Romney, famous squish from the state of Utah. She doesn't strike me as being a genuine conservative, certainly not a MAGA conservative. She strikes me as being kind of like a Mitch McConnell, you know, and she has not been good for the Republican Party. So who are we guessing is going to replace her or hoping?

Yeah, I mean, she's either incompetent or a squish because she's had a chance already. She's had a chance to do something for the Republican Party. She's been in this seat as chair of as chair of the RNC for quite some time. Chair of the RNC has a lot of responsibilities. And she has not, she has not followed through on those responsibilities. It's time to make a change. Like it's time to, it's, it's time for something new. My personal favorite for this would be Harmeet Dillon.

She, one of my favorite sayings is if you don't understand, if you don't recognize and acknowledge the reality of the political enemy that we're facing, you won't fight well against it. And I think that Rana Romney McDaniel does not understand the reality of the political enemy that we're facing. It's shown that's manifested in her in her work, which is not fighting the fight. But Harmeet Dillon knows what's going on here. There's also Lee Zeldon might throw his hat into the ring. I thought he was a great choice for governor of New York. I wish that he had won that. I hope he runs again. And I think he can win that. But Harmeet is just very, very, she's placed

very well for this. She understands the issues with election integrity, that difference between just vague allegations of fraud versus the electioneering that happened, she understands the nuances of that. And you have to understand the nuances of that to actually make a difference, not just to tweet about it, not just to yell about it, but to fix it. So it doesn't happen again. I think she'd be a phenomenal choice. Harmeet, Dylan, Lee Zeldin, and of course, my pal, Mike Lindell. I think he said he was thrown his hat in the ring, right? He said that he was going to do that. Look, I mean, if there's anybody that cares about the elections, it's Mike Lindell. But I love the idea that now, Harmeet Dillon, I'm trying to remember.

I know I've met her and I've seen her many, many times, but what her background is or what it is that she's been doing. She's a lawyer, isn't she? She is. She's a lawyer. She runs, I think it's called the Dillon Law Group. But they're the predominant law firm that has been behind some of the, some of the, I would call them the culture war lawsuits, which I love to see. We need politicians who, Republicans, and I would count an R&C chair as a politician, right? They're not in Congress, but that's a political job.

Oh, it's a hugely important. Who's not just there saying, oh, we're going to be fiscal conservatives, we're going to be about national security, we're going to be about economy, and then we're going to be kind of libertarian on the social issues. I want to see someone who understands the battle over education, the battle over marriage, the battle over parental rights, the battle over free speech, the battle over medical freedom, the battle over our elections and election security. and I was excited. I talked to her yesterday because I saw on Twitter that there was rumors that she was going to run. And I think, in a sense, I said this to you before the show, actually. I hate to see someone who's so competent where they are moving away because she's doing such an incredible job where she is being this legal bulwark

against the legal abuse that's coming from the left. But at the same time, if we don't make some big changes at the top of the Republican Party, we're going to keep suffering these losses regardless of whether we're winning public opinion and whether we're winning school boards. And she would be great. And I really do think we have to be all in because you don't have forever to write these wrongs. At some point, the window is closing.

I mean, we have to understand everything is at stake. If we don't get free and fair elections in America, if we don't, I mean, here's the issue. If people don't believe the elections are free and fair, that is a fatally corrosive to the republic. People have to believe that when they, vote, their vote counts. If there's any question of that, it really destroys, you know, that's what corruption does. It destroys not just the institutions, but the faith in the

institution so that people are no longer, you know, willing to fight as hard because they say, well, what does it matter? That's pervasive right now among conservatives and Republicans. Right. And so to have somebody like Harmeet understand that this is, this is the number one issue. I mean, if you don't know for sure that the referee is not being bribed, if you don't know that, you really, you cannot have an America until you solve that problem. And I actually believe that part of what happened when we didn't get the, you know, the predicted red wave, it was good because it makes people understand, yes, we need to fight. We are not even close to done.

Anybody who thinks that, you know, John Federman grunted his way to victory? I don't think so. And I think, but see, the thing is I think most Americans see that. Yeah. They just think, no, that's not right. Carrie Lake, she didn't lose. It was so evident because polling, going into Election Day, there was, I think it was a CNN poll, a CNN exit poll.

It was either CNN or CNBC. It was some liberal mainstream media outlet. They did an exit poll on Election Day on the midterms and found that 75% between 70 and 75% of voters were either dissatisfied or angry with the job that Joe Biden has done. And I sit here asking you, how do you marry that, Eric? Marry that number, that number of voters who are dissatisfied with the president with the fact that we didn't see this red wave. Because we won public opinion. The issues of the day have been inflation, gas prices, critical race theory, transgender ideology and school and parental rights.

Those have been the most pervasive issues that we've been dealing with in the last year, that voters on both sides of the aisle care about and that voters on both sides of the aisle agree with Republicans. So how do we get those two things, public opinion and this dissatisfaction with Biden and not see a red wave? The obvious answer to that is something has changed with our election structure.

Maybe something that changed from election day to election season and people want to know, well, what is the actual mechanism? What happened? Was it lawbreaking? Was it rigging? What is it? And then we have politicians who aren't giving a clear answer. Well, that's the job of the Republican. Republican National Committee to give us clear answers. And by the way, the answer is all of the above.

And that's why a lot of times, you know, if you wonder why something is happening or why something is not happening, a lot of times the answer is because it's too complicated and people tune out. And that's part of what's happening here. Here you have, you know, voting machines that plausibly have been have been monkeyed with on 100 levels. That's number one. But it's complicated. You can easily tune out because it's like, well, I don't get it. I don't understand it. I don't have time to watch Mike Lindell for five hours because this, you have to like get a PhD in this stuff. Then there's the issue of, you know, 2000 mules, the harvesting and the ballot stuffing. There's another issue. Then there's the issue of what came out just the other

day with Twitter. And you've got all of these monsters, these giants with putting their thumb on the scale to the tune of zillions of dollars. I mean, when you think of the effect that Twitter and Facebook. So there's a host of issues. And if the Republican Party doesn't deal with this, it is game over for America. You will never be able to win another election unless we take it. Think about what happened in Wisconsin, for example. This is a perfect case study, I think, because the Wisconsin, it made it all the way, the lawsuit made it all the way to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. And they issued a ruling saying that the changes to the rules that were made in the lead up to the 2020 election were actually unconstitutional changes. They said that should this happen again, it renders an election.

election invalid. Now, Eric, I don't know why it didn't render that part of that election invalid because the state was not allowed by the provisions of the Constitution to mail to mail ballots to every voter without request. They weren't allowed to have ballot drop-off boxes that were unmanned. It is a constitutional provision in the state of Wisconsin that you have to hand your ballot to an actual agent of the state, if you will, an actual election worker. And they just redefined these mailboxes as people, which in another world is kind of funny to to say like, oh, yeah, we're going to give that personhood, but not an unborn child. But the Wisconsin Supreme Court said, this is not fair.

That happened all over our nation. That is not hard to understand. And that is why Donald Trump made a statement. This is a classic controversial Donald Trump statement. He shouldn't have put it the way he did. But, you know, when he saw what happened with Twitter, you know, he is convinced, as I am convinced, and many people are convinced that Joe Biden was not actually elected. And we the people wanted Trump to be president.

And a conjuries of various forces conspired to deprive the American people of their choice for president. So Trump leaps in and says, well, then, you know, like if the car was stolen and we recovered the car and we know who stole it, we've got to give it back to the right owner. In other words, he's basically trying to make the case. and, you know, I've argued with my friend Jenna Ellis over this, is there constitutional path back? And so Trump said something about, well, then we need to, you know, blow off the Constitution or whatever. We know what he meant, but he shouldn't have said it that way. We'll continue the conversation, and I'll continue these sentences when we come back talking to Liz Wheeler. Don't go away.

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972 Patriot. Get free activation today with the offer code Eric. If you're fed up with the woke companies that don't care about your values or our country support a company that does, PatriotMobile.com slash Eric or call 972 Patriot. PatriotMobile.com slash Eric. Hey folks, I am talking to Liz Wheeler. Liz, it's really you. It is. It is.

So I'm told. Thank you for having me, by the way. This is really fun. Well, it's a big sacrifice. What were we, what was I just, I was just chattering about something. Maybe it's good that I forgot what I was talking about because we were talking about the elections. And I was basically just saying that when it becomes confusing,

people tune out. And we do, as we were saying earlier, we need an RNC head who realizes that you cannot, we cannot move forward unless we clarify this. You were talking about what happened in Wisconsin. Wisconsin. And actually, no, I remember what I was talking about.

I was talking about Donald Trump said something about when somebody makes the case like, look, you know, if we know that Joe Biden and his people stole the election, there's something we can do about it. And he is saying, in a nutshell, that's preposterous. If we know that it was stolen, we should be able to figure out a way to do something about it. And I agree with him.

I don't know what that means, but it seems to me that when a wrong has been done, we have to figure out a way to make it right. Yeah, there has to be some accountability. Listen, this is how I think about statements from politicians, like the one Trump made where he essentially said we should suspend the Constitution and install him as president. I'll just take you through my thought process here because right now we have the mainstream media and the left all the way up to the Biden White House condemning Trump for saying suspend the Constitution. And I mean, of course it's a bananas thing to say, right? Of course we should not suspend the Constitution. But it's funny that the left is the one crying in outrage over this because the left is this is the same Democratic Party, the same leftist apparatus who told us that our entire country is illicit.

legitimate based on some kind of systemic racism. That's the Constitution of the United States, the Declaration of Independence are racist documents, that we are irredeemable just because of the color of our skin based on sins of the past. They, on a regular basis, make every effort by hook or by crook to subvert the Constitution, not because they are trying in an unwise or imprudent way to correct or write some wrong, but because they want to deprive you and I as Christian people of our fundamental, God-given, inherent human rights as protected by these documents. So a little ironic, kind of funny, coming from the left, pretending to care about the Constitution,

when the entire platform of their party is anti-free speech, anti-religious liberty, anti-Second Amendment right, anti-Forth Amendment right, I mean, from A to Z here. So we should put someone, we should elect someone to the head of the RNC that understands the problems, what led to this electioneering, unpack exactly what happened so that we can course correct so that we can have free and fair elections so that when public opinion agrees with Republican platforms and there's discontent with a Democratic president that we see the logical outcome of that in an election, it's actually not rocket science. It should be very hard to do, but that's politicians, right? They make difficulty out of something that should be easy.

Well, I mean, again, we're facing the end of America unless we deal with these things. So to me, not getting the red wave, I see it as a good thing ultimately in God's economy, because if you care about America in the long term, you have got to fix these issues. You know, it's like a boat that's leaking, and you're like, if you don't plug the leaks, eventually you're all going to die. And we have to plug these leaks.

We have to deal with these problems. These are huge problems. I mean, we have really, I mean, you have to go back to the Civil War, really, to look at a moment like where we find ourselves. This is an existential moment for the nation. Well, we're actually having the same fights. We're not physically fighting the way that we're,

we did in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War, but we're having the same fights over what is what is true, what is a right, what is a right? We are just having that politically. Like instead of arguing over how much is it fair to tax someone who makes of a certain income, there's not necessarily an inherent moral right and wrong there, right? You kind of wiggle that around to see what's fair. But it is, it is a matter of objective truth of right and wrong, whether you're allowed to practice your religion in the public sphere, whether I'm allowed to say what I want on Twitter. And we've devolved as a political apparatus, our political discourse has devolved to the point that we're actually arguing over basic first principles.

What is a woman? What is a man? Do parents have dominion over their children? Are you allowed to go to church? Can government force you to get a vaccine? All of these things that were settled with actual conflict in our nation before the left has brought us back to these fights. Yeah. And again, it is astonishing because it's my belief, and I say this over and over, that most Americans, get this. Most Americans haven't suspended their view of what is a man or a woman or whether parents should be able to have control over their kids. I mean, these things are inanities. They're preposterous. They're laughable idiocies. But we have a ruling class and a mainstream media and many others that are willing to go along with these preposterous cultural Marxist lies. And we have to fight. We have to deal with this. So it's a lot.

is the existential crisis in which we find ourselves at the moment. But I believe it's God's will that we fight, and I believe it's as well that we fight. It's our duty as Christians to fight, too, not to just step back and let politics be politics, but to understand that our right to live as Christians to pursue Christ is on the line here. And if we don't fight for ourselves, who's going to fight for us? Exactly. Well, we've just got moments left, Liz Wheeler. It's great to have you here. And I know you're in New York for a couple of days. I'm in New York for years. But it is great to have you here. So I don't know, 30 seconds. What are you doing these days? You're doing your show and you're raising. Yes, yes. I'm being a hybrid, full-time mom and full-time

political commentator. I host my show, the Liz Wheeler Show, as I juggle my lovely, wiggly, almost two-year-old daughter. And of course, being a wife to my husband and all the rest of It's a crazy chaotic life, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's, I feel this incredible calling to both. I always say it's my vocation to be a mother, and it's my calling to fight for our nation in the way that I can. And I'm trying to find that best balance. I do ask, I mean, thank you for having me on the show, but I ask all your viewers, subscribe to my show. You can go to Apple Podcast or Spotify.

If you like to listen, you can go to YouTube or Rumble if you like to watch. Hit that subscribe button and join us in this fight. It's a fight worth fighting. Well, I thank God you're on our team. God bless you, Liz Wheeler. Thank you. Thanks, Eric. Tell me, Eric, why is relief factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain?

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If you've been listening for any period of time, you know I'm passionate about the work of Christian Solidarity International, a ministry that sets these captives free. There are hundreds of thousands persecuted and enslaved in the Middle East. Together, we can literally buy their freedom and save the lives of some precious brothers and sisters this Christmas, giving them the joy and hope that we celebrate freely. For only $250, you can provide lifesaving aid this Christmas. You can buy a believer's freedom and provide them with much needed food, a goat, and other goods necessary for their very survival. These are brothers and sisters who are enslaved and fearing for their lives. Just $250. Maybe you can give more. Maybe a portion. Every gift helps. Imagine buying a fellow believer's freedom. Call 888-253.

3522. 888-253-3522. Christian Solidarity, providing life-saving resources for persecuted Christians for almost 40 years. 888-253-3522 or Metaxistalk.com and click on the Christian Solidarity banner. Give someone the gift of their freedom for Christmas. Thank you. Welcome back talking to Kevin McCull about the news of the day. Now, actually, Kevin, part of the news of the day is that as of, I guess yesterday, launched a campaign for this month to free slaves. This sounds like it's a metaphor, but we mean this literally, folks, which is why I use the word literally carefully. We're not talking about people who are enslaved in quotes.

We're talking about people who are actually being enslaved in the southern Sudan. And if you go to metaxis talk.com and click on the banner, you'll see it right at the top. you can help free them because CSI, Christian Solidarity International, have been involved in this for decades. They know they have relationships there. They know what to do, what can be done. So this is an amazing opportunity. And Kevin, because we've just begun this month, I thought it would be good to get you to talk about it because you're familiar with CSI and with how they do what they do. Yeah, well, I've had the great humbling honor to be a spokesperson for them for the last 10 years or so.

And one of the things that I cannot get away from, and for the people that are watching your show on Rumble or wherever you post it, I want you to see the picture of this lady's face that I'm holding up to the camera right there. You can't see it very much, but I think you can at least get a glimpse of the smile. This is a woman by the name of a choke, and her story is very similar to many of the stories that you will hear about and you will read about in the work of CSI. But when she was taken into slavery, and a lot of this happened during the Sudan Civil War, which was, I think, 1995. And when the Arabs from the northern section of what was then the United Sudan would travel down into the southern regions where the Christians were, they would ransack villages. They would rampage through towns. They would kill lots of the men and boys.

They would grab and take captive the women and children and begin marching them towards the north. These were the spoils of war. This is what's happened since the beginning of time. But when they were put into slavery, they were treated completely inhumane. And I could detail some of what they've gone through, a choke. the ladies who's a picture I just showed you, she was systematically abused from the moment she was taken into captivity

as a nine-year-old girl. And just imagine the trauma, the unsettledness of your psyche of the world and life you know. You're helping your mom pick crops and make dinner one day. And the next thing you know, you're being systematically

raped by your captors multiple times in just your trip to the north. When you get to where you're going, you're sold to the slave master from the raiders. The slave master then rapes you systematically, regularly, may cause you to have two or three children regularly let his sons or his business associates have their way with you as well. And over time, as a person, you become very desensitized and you withdraw within yourself. And there's almost an otherworldliness that you're kind of living in because it's just a protection mechanism for all the pain that you're experiencing. But then you add on top of that every day you're told to go and to do all of the laundry, to do all of the chores, to do all of the stuff without really being fed. you're fed scraps that fall off the table from the family.

The wives of the slave masters hate you because you represent a lack of sexual identity with them. And if you have kids, they really hate you. Your children are allowed to be with you until they are weaned. And once they are weaned, they are taken from you because obviously the slave master believes they're his. And when you go through all of these things, you're having. constantly verbal abuse leveled your way. They call them a name that we can't even translate in American media because it's so vulgar.

The meaning of it is so vulgar. It wouldn't be allowed to be on broadcast radio or television. So this is how they are treated for year after year after year, an unrelenting wave of just constant abuse. Many of these girls were Christians raised in Christian homes. when they find themselves in these situations, the Arab master says, you have to become a Muslim woman now.

In order to be a good Muslim woman, you have to go down to the creek. Here's a rusted lid from a tin can. You have to cut out the piece of your sexual organ that gives you pleasure. And you're not allowed to have pleasure in your sexual activity for the rest of your life. There's no sterilization,

sterile facilities, there's no clean instruments. None of this has done. Many of the girls have gotten very bad, infections and died from this procedure. But you're lucky enough, a choke is, to survive and then to carry on with your life there in those conditions as such that it is for a few more years. Kids are taken away from you.

Then you hear about a retriever, somebody called a retriever, not a raider, but a retriever. And these are Arabs that are working with the Christians in the South. And they come up and they find the slaves and they ask, are you a slave? or do you want to go home? And if they find them, they enter into a negotiation in which they earn their liberation and they are returned to home. They are given everything they need to start a life all over again called a bag of hope. And when they are returned to their home village or where they're from, the celebration

and the explosion of happiness and joy is as euphoric in its intensity as the suffering has been in what they have experienced. It doesn't last as long, but it certainly is just as intense because it's like the prodigal son only wasn't a prodigal that left. They were taken against their will and the homecoming is that much greater. When you explain all of this to people, Eric, and you say, you can take a woman who's living in that kind of existence of death and you can take her to life back home with everything she needs to start her life on her own for $250, one-time gift in this day and age. And let me tell you everything that's in the bag of hope.

It's a year's worth of food. It's a years worth of seed to plant the next year's food. It's utensils to garden, fish, and cook with. It's all of the blankets and tarps that you need to have a sleeping structure. It's a she-goat that will allow you to have a micro-enterprise to breed more goats and to sell them and find a way to live. But all of that in your gift for $250 is what's good. Kevin, I want to keep you on to continue talking.

But folks, you've heard this. It is our honor to participate in this. It is an honor and a privilege that we get to participate. Please go to metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner, metaxis talk.com. We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. We're talking to our friend Kevin McCullough.

And what we're talking about, you talk about what's the news of the day. The news of the day is that people are being monstrously enslaved this minute while we're having these conversations. The news of the day is also that there's something we can do about it. Kevin, when you shared the evil, the unbelievable evil that men and women are suffering, in southern Sudan, where monstrous people are allowed to persecute torture and slave, rape, it's hard for us to take it in. And I think that we in the West, who are so blessed and so privileged, we cannot fathom that this evil is happening. While we have our little battles over this or that, this is going on in the world, folks. This is not history.

This is happening now, right now. And we have the tremendous privilege. It is a privilege to do something about it, even to hear the story, to know how grateful we are, or I'm sorry, to know how blessed we are so that we can have gratitude to God that we are not suffering those things. And that because of our freedom and because of our largesse, because of our abilities, our relative wealth, we can actually be a part of redeeming what has been broken, destroyed. I want to remind people, metaxis talk.com is the website. Metaxistococococcom. You'll see at the top, there's a banner, and there's a phone number, which I will give just because some people would prefer to

call. Folks, you've got to do this. You have to do it. This Christmas season, you've got to participate in this to some extent, whatever you can do, the number is 888-253-3522. 888-253-3522. 8-88-253-3522. Kevin, you said that $250 if somebody gives that. Of course, this is tax-deductible. But if you give that amount to CSI, you are single-handedly not only freeing someone from these satanic conditions,

but you're also enabling them to get started in a future in freedom. You just detailed what they get. They don't just get taken out of this. They get everything they need to start their life over again. And I showed you the picture of a choke for a reason. She has a huge smile on her face. And for someone who has gone through 15 or 16 or, or 17 years of ritual abuse to the point where you become numb, you withdraw into yourself,

you don't even really understand what's going on around you, for them to come out of that and to have a smile like that and to express Thanksgiving to God to reuse their Christian name again. There is so much that they have to be thankful for. And yet, Eric, almost every single one of them that comes out as they are talking to the CSI liberators at the liberation camp on the border of the two sedans, they say the same thing. and again and again and again. Thank you God for setting me free. Thank you to the Christians in America who got me free. Now, please don't forget the ones that are still there. And at the peak of slavery, there were about 185,000 to CSI's credit and people listening to your show and mine

and others over the last number of years. We have helped liberate more than 135,000 of those people. but that leaves somewhere in the neighborhood of about 45,000 slaves and children to go. And they need our help. We're at, we're at a time. Folks, you've just got to participate in this. You give what you can by the grace of God. Evil is real. We need to face it and we need to do what we can.

MetaxusTalk.com is the website. Please go to Metaxistock.com. Click on the banner. Tell your friends. This is an amazing thing that we get to do. Kevin McCullough, thank you.