The Eric Metaxas Show - Mark Driscoll

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

Mark Driscoll from Real Faith ministries dives into the concepts in his new book that takes on "the demonic power of critical theory and cancel culture."

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. I think we are having a fun show. Oh, this is great. It's Friday, so why not? Honestly, when I talk to James Tour, that was hour one today, I can't get over that guy. He cracks me up. He's so intense and so brilliant. Yeah. I think I said this, that I literally wrote Is Atheism Dead because of him and because

of Stephen Collins, who we had on a few days ago. We'll replay that in the next couple of weeks. You wrote this book right here. I wrote Is Atheism Dead. Because of James Tor. Because of James Tour. Wow. I want to talk to you about you've been reading the book and there's some fun stuff we can talk about.

But before we do that, let me just remind you, folks, we need everybody who listens to the program to give anything to the Alliance Defending Freedom. Go to Metaxistococ.com. You think, well, that doesn't include me. Actually, it does. If you can hear my voice, and that's a lot of you out there, we need you to do what you can for religious liberty. You understand your tax dollars are being used against religious liberty, and that's the heart of who we are as a people. I've talked about that a lot. It's in the news constantly.

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and which wig I've chosen because I have more than one. I don't like to talk about it. This red one's very... Well, you know what? The wig adhesives are just driving me crazy. We shouldn't talk about that. All right, what are we going to talk about?

Is atheism dead? We want everybody to pre-order the book. The cheapest, you can get it 45% off at ericmetaxis.com. In order to get the word out on this stuff, Okay, this goes beyond books. The book needs to be a success. Every time I come out with a book, it's a challenge because folks at places like the New York Times, they don't like the cut of my jib.

And they don't even like that I have a jib. And they work against you. They don't want to put you on their bestseller list, even if the book has sold well. So you have to really overwhelm them. So I'm asking for your help, bluntly, and saying, please pre-order the book. order as many copies as you think you will buy. Please do that by pre-ordering. Because there's stuff in this book that's going to make news.

It's going to upset a lot of people. If you've read it, you see what I'm talking about. And by the way, Albin, you are reading it right now. I am. The only time I have to read it, basically, is on the train back and forth from Terrytown every day to come into work. So I'm only about halfway through the book right now. That's why it's – but it's fun because I can savor it, okay? So now I just got through some of the Old Testament archaeology that proves that Old Testament, quote-unquote, stories are real, true stories.

And those are really fun. We talked about Hezekiah's tunnel yesterday, which was really incredible. Actually, I made that one up. Oh, you did? Oh, who's going to check? Who's going to know? Okay, check, please. I'm out of here. No, now we're into like the New Testament stuff. Yeah.

And I really like this little section here. I'm right in the middle of it right now. The argument from quarkiness. Oh, I have to explain. I mean, because that's technically not archaeology. But I do talk about the New Testament manuscripts. Yes. In other words, they've discovered manuscripts that date back so close to the actual composition of the New Testament.

I mean, if you think about it, it was in the first century that people like Paul and Mark and Luke, you know, they were writing these gospels, right? And, of course, Paul was writing his letters in what, I don't know, the 50s, 8.000. I mean, you know, right years after Jesus's ascension. So imagine that they have discovered manuscripts that go back almost into that first century. When you look at the historical record, if you look at what do we know from Socrates and Plato and Aristotle and Thucydides and what do we know about it? We know nothing compared to, I mean, the comparison, there is no comparison. The New Testament documents. So I talk about how we know that these are real from the archaeological finds of these things.

This John Rylans thing gives me chills when I think about it. Don't give that away. You have to buy the book. But what you're talking about is I said, while I'm on the subject of how we know this, I said, I need to write about how do historians determine is this authentic? And you talked about the argument from quirkiness. In other words, there are things written in the New Testament. that are so odd that if you're a student of literature and you bump into that, you go, wait a minute.

Yeah. This is real. This is not something that somebody made up. So what was the thing that you were going to bring up? Well, I was going to bring up the part about the fish because in the Bible, this always struck me. And I said, I'm going to remember this number. If I remember nothing else about everything I've read in the Bible, after Jesus was resurrected, again, he comes on the shore and they're fishing and they don't recognize him at first.

He says, go back out. Come on. You didn't catch anything. Throw it on the other side of the boat. They come back. They had so many fish. But this time, they actually counted the fish. And the number was 153 fish.

Right. And that was a detail. They didn't usually talk about details way back then. Well, I mean, there are many things. There are many things. There are a lot of people that read the Bible and they're kind of looking for symbolic meaning, right? And I'm just here to tell you, sometimes a number is so quirky that there is no symbolic meaning. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sometimes the number is just a number. So if the number was 144, you'd say, ooh, that's 12 times 12. It's this biblical number. It's in Revelation. What do you do with 153? If it was 150, you'd say, well, they rounded it up or they rounded it down. When you say 153 and you try to make sense of that, the most common sense interpretation is they were so blown away.

If you were a fisherman at that time, the idea of throwing down your net and coming up with 153 fish with that size net and that size boat. It was so astonishing that they said, we're going to count, we've got to count this because we've never seen this many fish. The number was 153, and they wrote it down. Right. And back then, it got into the World Records, the Guinness Book of World Records, because before that it was 149. So that's why they counted it. That's why it got in the Bible. In the Aramaic World Book. But, you know, honestly, when I look into this, I thought there are little things in the scripture that are so bizarre that if you're a student of scripture, you can't bat it away. So a lot of times when atheists like Christopher Hitchens are trying to poke holes in the Bible, they avoid these things like the plague

because they know, I mean, my wife and I've been reading through Chronicles recently, the specificity of the names and the numbers. And it is so insane that there's not a chance that they made this up. I mean, it's boring, it's detailed, there's a thousand names, there's strange numbers, and it is so, it's just obvious that they wanted to record all this stuff. And by the way, with James Tor, speaking of Mr. Tour, or the professor or doctor, Tor, in another interview you do with him, you talk about Chronicles, you talk about all these little tedious numbers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. So it's very excited. We're going to play that next week, by the way. That's right, that's right. Well, I mean, I guess the larger thing is that there's a lot of stuff in this book, you know, It's mostly about archaeology, but I needed to take a detour when I was talking about, you know, when archaeology is trying to determine is something authentic or what does it mean.

This comes into play, and so I do a little detour on this issue of the quirkiness. And the number 153, to me, that's the most dramatic example. Yeah. Because, you know, you want to say to a skeptic, what do you do with that? Why did they write 153? There's no way around it. They knew this is the largest hall of fish. It's so insane.

They literally counted the fish. And anybody at that time would have said, are you kidding? That is a miracle. I mean, you know, it's just anyway, that's so funny. And we were, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, there's so many exciting little things in the book. And we've talked earlier about just the kids. There were kids that discovered like three of the greatest finds in the Old Testament.

That chapter, we talked about the other day, Hezekiah's Tunnel. There's a chapter in the book. Now, this was when I discovered, this a lot of times this happens to me, I'll discover something and I will think, wait a minute, this can't be. I realize that the three most, three of the most amazing archaeological finds ever in dealing with the Old Testament, three of them each involved a bad, behaved boy. Yeah. I mean, this is like you'd make it up. One is hilarious. Two is a weird coincidence.

Three. And so there's a chapter of, it's called three misbehaving boy. Anyway, when you read it, it's in order of how poorly behaved they were. The last one to me is the funniest. His name's Nathan. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot, have never made a big deal about.

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Go to relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500, 8384, 800, 500, 8384, relief factor.com. I use it. It works. Hey there, folks. Many of you already know Mark Driscoll. If you don't, let me see what it says.

Oh, yes. He's the founding senior pastor of the Trinity Church in Scottsdale, Arizona. but he has debated Deepak Chopra on ABC's Nightline. He's discussed marriage with Barbara Walters on The View, all kinds of ugly stuff like that. Mark Driscoll, welcome to the program. Good to have me, buddy. Good to see you. Thanks for having me on.

It's good to see you always, but honestly, you've written a book. The reason you're here today is to talk about, I'm holding it in my hand. It's called Christian Theology versus Critical Theory. A lot of people are at least confused about this new thing. You keep hearing about critical race theory. My theory, my thesis, I should say, is that anytime somebody comes up with a new thing like that, I'm deeply suspicious because they act as though, oh, you know, everything you've heard up until now is wrong. Here, take this.

And I think, why? What are you saying to me? So we were hoping we could get somebody on the program to discuss it. And we found you. So Mark Driscoll, thank you. Thanks for writing this. Is this brand new? Yeah, and so it's Christian Theology versus Critical Theory.

It's free at real faith.com. I've got a mountain of Bible teaching there. I tend to teach through books of the Bible. I've been a pastor for 25 years. I didn't go through a publisher because I know it would get attacked and canceled. I didn't put endorsements on it because then all they do is just shoot arrows at your friends. So I'm just giving it away. I think that the greatest threat to Christian theology right now is critical theory.

I believe it's the counterfeit. I believe it seeks to undo anything that looks like traditional Western values, marriage, family, sexuality. Critical race theory is a part of that, but it's a much, much, much bigger issue. Critical theory includes gender studies. We're even seeing it now with mask, no mask, vaccine, no vaccine. Almost every single cultural collision that we're having is up against critical theory. Now, most people, I think intuitively sense. something along the lines of what you said, but they don't have the vocabulary, and I really don't,

to put these things together. Is it because, I mean, when I think of things like critical race theory or critical theory, immediately I think, hey, this is Marxism. Marxism has been taken out of the economic sphere and brought into every other sphere, and what Marxists do is they divide people. It is, to my mind, fundamentally anti-biblical. In other words, as the Bible brings love, and forgiveness. And it canceled culture, critical race, three, all of these things are dividing. Is that what you're getting at when you talk about masks, no masks? Are we even dealing with it with that issue? Yeah, every single issue, it's a collision of two worldviews. So the Christian worldview is that there is a God, he has laws, everyone is judged by them, you need

forgiveness of sin, we need to love and serve one another. The counterfeit of that, So I would put the category of spiritual warfare over at all, that everything God creates, Satan counterfeits. So what critical theory seeks to do, it seeks to make heaven without God, it seeks to replace fathers and families with government, and it creates warfare, it creates collision between those who would hold to traditional theory versus those who would hold a critical theory. And traditional theory is really, how do you build something? How do you build a culture, an economy, a family, a marriage, a society? what happens in critical theory, it's deconstruction, it's breaking. So you critique gender, you critique marriage, you critique sexuality, you critique private property ownership, you critique

right to privacy when it comes to medical issues regarding vaccine. And so what these are, these are just demolition crews. And you know as well as I do, building something is really hard, tearing it down, breaking it is very, very easy. And so what you get every day, everybody wakes up and it's sort of the rage of the day, who or what are we attacking, breaking, and tearing down today. And the myth is that if we tear down what was built, that somehow something better will emerge, a better culture, a better view of family, a better social order. And it just doesn't happen. You look at the cities like Seattle, Portland, L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, that are maybe a few years ahead of parts of the other Midwestern cities that are a little more insulated. and it's not working. It's not working financially. It's not working culturally. It's not working

racially. People are literally fleeing those places because it's just a lie. The lie is that we can make a just, orderly good society without God and without law and order. It's amazing because most Americans aren't used to this and they're thinking, where did this come from? I had the fortune or misfortune, you know, going to a place like Yale in the 80s, where you're going to this stuff was already entrenched. And I even remember at the time, just a naive working class kid, I wanted to study the English language, study English literature, and these weird Marxist feminist theories were coming in.

And it just struck me even then as odd, as somehow unpleasant, as fundamentally negative. And it sounds like that's what you're saying. Like this stuff is almost like a force of negation. It doesn't want to build. It just wants to destroy. Do you think if you ask somebody who is a big proponent of this stuff, that they are they deluded into thinking that there's something happy on the other side,

that there's some utopia on the other side of the wreckage? Yeah, you mentioned Marxism, and that is always, who's the oppressor and who's the oppressed? And if I'm the oppressed, then justice is attacking and dismantling the oppressor. And then the naive assumption is, like, if we destroy family, if we destroy marriage, if we destroy gender, if we destroy Christianity, which is happening now. And I believe that critical theory is creating a whole generation of widespread mass apostasy, people who are giving up basic biblical convictions but still claiming to be Christians. And it's exacerbated by social media, the throttling of the platforms and organizations like Black Lives. matter, which are fundamentally seeking to undo everything that would be some sort of Christian value about gender, marriage, sex, and family. But the naive assumption is, if we get rid of

something, we'll get something better. Jesus had the principle of seven demons. He said, if you cast a demon out and you don't replace it with the Holy Spirit, you just get seven more demons. And so we see this, for example, with reimagining law and order in the police. Well, if we just defund and decriminalize, then what will happen? Well, hell will come up. and take over the earth. That's what's going to happen. You don't get something better. And so what happens in critical theory,

you're criticizing something that is imperfect, but you're going to replace it with something that is probably far worse for human life and flourishing. You call that justice. You call yourself a victim, and the result is everyone loses. And we're seeing this in major urban centers across America. And what you said, Eric, is true.

If you go to the university, you're peering into the future. Right now, on the college campuses, they're educating the lawyers, the media pundits, they're educating the people that will be running business and politics for the next generation. And so what started out as a, you know, politically correct speech and safe zones and gender studies and women's studies and fat studies and human sexuality, you know, naughty classes, that's gone from the university. Now it's gone mainstream. And right now, if you go to the university, you're getting to look into the future, what are we going to have in the next 10 years? and it's horrifying. Well, we know that it's madness. I guess my question is, you know,

somebody famous said that some things or some ideas are so stupid it takes an intellectual to believe them, you know? So it's not that surprising that in the kind of greenhouse of the university, this madness can take over. But the idea that it's come into the mainstream of society, and worse than that, the church, how do you think it's possible that people in the evangelical church could not understand that this is what you're saying it is and what I've been saying it is? Well, I believe everything that God creates Satan counterfeit. So I believe that critical theory, and that's what we're writing about, is the opposite or

the counterfeit of Christian theology. And so what happens is within critical theory, we're basically good and we're getting better. The Bible says we're bad and getting worse. The Bible says that there are unchangeable fixed laws that come from God. Critical theory says that. that there is no such thing as law, and it's contingent and dependent upon each individual and culture. And in Christian theology, you own your own failures,

your personal sins and your shortcoming. In critical theory, it's not personal, it's systemic. You are the victim of various systems that have oppressed you, so rather than repenting of your sin and changing your life, you attack other people and you turn yourself into the victim, and all of a sudden you're Jesus and you're the good one, and they're Judas, they're the bad one. And so in the name of justice,

your job is to attack and dismantle everything they say and do. We see this with cancel culture. We see this with throttling. And we see that in the end, you know, cancel culture is the counterfeit of the crucifixion. We believe that Jesus got crucified. Now we end up crucifying people in their careers and their reputations.

In Christianity, you're supposed to be born again. The counterfeit in critical theory is you're woke. And so that's the counterfeit of being born again. I mean, everything is just a counterfeit. What I'm saying is critical theory is a cult. It is a new demonic religion and ideology that has taken over every sphere of academia and culture. And those who would claim to be Christian and seek to reconcile these two things are responsible for a massive generational apostasy in the name of tolerance, diversity, open-mindedness, and equality. And it's just all misery.

And it's all just simply untrue. What's the website where folks can get a free copy of this book? Realfaith.com, and it's Christian Theology versus Critical Theory. And it's just free. We'll give you a free. Realfaith.com. We'll be right back with Mark Driscoll. Realfaith.com, folks, check it out.

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That's 866473-6204. Folks, I'm talking to Mark Driscoll. If you don't know who he is, here he is. Mark, it's good to talk to you. It's good to talk to people who understand that we're living in the real world. and that our faith, we have to understand how it fits into the real world. We were talking about your new book, which people can get free at where? What is it?

Realfaith.com. Realfaith.com. Okay. It's called Christian Theology versus Critical Theory. It's important, Vodi Bacom has written about this as well, that we really understand this. This is a very small book, and you're giving it away free, which is amazing. but I'm kind of amazed that so many in the church are somehow open to these horrible ideas. What do you suppose it is?

I guess my theory is that they just don't want to be combative, and they think that's combative. That's maybe Mark Driscoll or Eric Metaxus, you know, have a personality to deal with that. I just want to be nice. I just want to preach the gospel. But the problem is if you don't speak out against something like Black Lives Matter and understand this is Marxism, This is not about caring about other colors. This is about harming those people in the name of helping them, and you have to confront that. But it's a very ugly thing.

And a lot of people, I think maybe it's not in their personality, and they're hoping they can take a pass, I guess. That's my best estimate of why some people are not fighting this. Yeah, and what I would say is there are some who have written on critical race theory. that's one element or application of critical theory, which is a much bigger issue. But most have not hit it from the perspective of spiritual warfare. As a Christian and a Bible teacher for 25 years teaching through books of the Bible, if you believe that Satan and demons are real, then you have to believe that what does it work behind critical theory?

And it's a powerful cultural force that is taken over social media. It's made its way to throttling platforms. It is brainwashing kids in schools. It is attacking marriage, family, gender, economics, politics, every area of society. You have to come to the conclusion that behind it are demonic forces at work, that this is really God versus Satan playing itself out in a very real cultural battle. The first critic in the history of the creation was Satan. He looked at God and God's governance and God's kingdom and said,

I disagree. I'm going to topple the authority. I'm going to disrupt the order. I am going to change the law. And so what we are seeing is really the war in heaven playing out on earth. The critic has come to earth and he wants to dismantle authority and God's presence in every sphere of society. And so for the Christian, if what you say is, I don't do conflict, what you are saying is, I do welcome the demonic. I like the way you put it, because that unfortunately is exactly correct. I really feel that something happened to the church over the decades

where we forgot that fighting for truth and justice and for those who were oppressed, that's a biblical value. Fighting is a biblical value. I think we've forgotten. We thought that we could just... I mean, I think people kind of come up with this idea that they think that I can just love somebody into the kingdom

as though that might not entail fighting for what is right or true. and obviously you're saying that, you know, you can't. You can't really be neutral because it's spiritual. And I love the fact that you're saying this is spiritual warfare, because sometimes we've got to call a spade a spade this is demonic and the way it has crept into everything so quickly. I'm tempted to see it as an Antichrist spirit or really almost as an end-time antichrist spirit.

because none of us has seen anything like this in our lifetime, certainly not in the West. Yeah, I would fully, totally, completely agree. It's like, why is it so powerful? Why was it so sudden? Why is it taken over every area of academia? Why is it made its way into our kids' classroom? Why is it made its way into what bathroom we can go into? Why is it affected everything we do?

It is because it is a demonic force. And Satan is always seeking to establish himself as the high. highest authority in every single sphere and realm. And right now, he's got media, he's got politics, he's got economics behind him. And in the age of social media, now what we have is we have the ability to brainwash people at the most rapid pace in the history of the world. And with COVID and things being shut down and people living online and being filled with fear and then joining in the rage of the day, it just accelerated and exacerbated, I think, a demonic, cult-like brainwashing of an entire planet. And the Bible does talk about in the last days, delusions and

deceptions and people being led astray. I'm 100% convinced that that's exactly what we are seeing. It's interesting. I think even a lot of Christians, they kind of shrink away from the idea of spiritual warfare, that they think everything can happen in the intellectual realm, the realm of ideas. But we're talking about something. It does, you can sort of smell it. It has a force. It's nasty. It's ugly and it has just metastasized into every part of culture. That's what I find so extraordinary. And that's why I'm glad you don't just deal with critical race theory in this book. Folks, you can get a free copy at realfaith.com.

Realfaith.com. Realfaith.com. Versus critical theory. Yeah, you deal with critical theory. Give us, you know, the 30-second view of where did critical theory come from? Does it come from the Frankfurt School? Does it come from Gramsci? I mean, is this just cultural Marxism in our time?

Yes. As a short answer, yes. It does start in Germany. It moves out. It does come out of Frankfurt. That is ultimately what is happening. But what happens in Marxism, the effort is made to create heaven on earth without God.

And it's replacing God with government. And it's the human vision of heaven. It's not God's vision of heaven. And so this is playing itself out. But that is very spiritual. of course, Marxism is atheistic. It is not godly or honoring of the Word of God in any way. And so this is a counterfeit.

We're going to have to leave it there, but you've wrapped it up. It's beautiful, folks. Christian theology versus critical theory. Get a free copy at realfaith.com. Mark Driscoll, God bless you, and thank you. Hey there, folks. If you listen to this program, you know that I care about religious liberty and that I've been begging you to make a donation to the lines of

hunting freedom. Why? Well, I've told you why over and over, I think they are as good as it gets. There are so many people being challenged in the area of religious liberty, and it's going to be all of us eventually. They're fighting this battle for us. Let me be blunt. It's for us, so we might as well help them out because they're doing it for us. I thought maybe I can convince you if I have one of their senior councils on to talk about what they're working on. You're Matt Sharma. I know you anyway. What case can we talk about that you guys are working on? Because I want my audience to understand what it is that you do on a daily basis, fighting for everybody in America.

We just don't know. We go about our lives. If you weren't doing this, we'd be in a different America, to be honest. So what are you guys working on right now? Well, one of the high-profile cases we're actually asking the U.S. Supreme Court to take is the one of Lori Smith and 303 creative. So she is an artist, a web designer that does incredible work. And as concerned, she's in the state of Colorado, concerned that she's going to be forced by the state to design sort of custom wedding sites for same-sex marriages that violate her beliefs. And according to a federal court of appeals, yes, the government can force her to create messages, to create websites to speak in support of same-sex marriages in violation of her deeply held religious beliefs.

I mean, I just want to say to my fellow Americans that when you're on the right side, you're on the right side. But it really doesn't matter if people can just push you around. So you have to go, in some cases, to court. And what do you do? Where do you go? The Alliance Defending Freedom is there. It's unconscionable that in America, somebody can say to you, I want you to bake a cake that says, I don't know, think of your favorite offensive statement, du jour. I hate women. I hate blacks. I hate Jews, whatever. Bake my cake. I'm paying you money. Bake the cake. Why should an American have to do that? Why should an American have to create a website for somebody who's promoting something they disagree with? In America, you don't have to do that. The Constitution says, no, we ever lose liberty, freedom of expression. And yet it is happening. And so if it weren't for Alliance Defending Freedom, and you, Matt Sharp, you understand this because you are there. If it weren't for you guys, taking these cases. cases and figuring out how do we bring them to the Supreme Court, how do we get our laws to

reflect what the Constitution says? It's the work of the law, and it takes place in the courts. Matt, you, can you talk about what Governor Abbott in Texas has been doing with regard to trying to get, and again, this is just pure common sense, but we are having to fight in the courts for common sense, that men should not be able to compete with women in high school? Talk about that case. Yeah. So I think a lot of people are familiar with what's going on with men being allowed to compete in women's sports. A lot of it started in Connecticut with our clients, Selena, Sol and others that were losing out on opportunities because of a policy that allowed two guys to compete. And in response, several states have passed laws that protect female sports, that protect fairness,

and now one is being considered in Texas. And what we're hoping is that this law will protect every girl, not just high school girls, but also college girls, so that a girl that graduates from high school to college doesn't find herself being forced to compete against a guy. And as you said, this is not only just common sense, but science is backing this up. In fact, there was actually a report that came out from a UK United Kingdom group today affirming what we all know, which is that men have advantages over women. Those advantages don't go away just because you're on puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones.

And that's what Texas and other states need to do is to protect fairness in women's sports. I mean, the biceps that I have, you know, there's nothing going to make them go away. This is just who I am, okay? It is true, though. I mean, I always have to joke because it's so crazy to me that you could have these high school male athletes suddenly deciding, I think, whether flippantly or honestly, we don't know, to compete against girls. is they're destroying these girls' chances of getting scholarships and so on and so forth. This is not right, folks. It's simply not right. But if you do not have the Alliance Defending Freedom fighting for you, we know that school administrators, folks in government, are by and large,

utterly gutless cowards who also clearly don't care about you and your kids. Otherwise, they would fight. So you have to go to the Alliance Defending Freedom who do fight, but they need our help. I want to say, folks, please go to my website, metaxis talk.com. You see the banner. We desperately do need your help. Matt, how long have you been with ADF? And what is it that makes you want to do this kind of thing? I've been doing this for over 11 years now. And it honestly started with my dad. My dad is now retired, but was a pastor. And I remember concerns of one. day is the government going to come knocking on the church door because of something he preached of holding true to gospel truth. And that's what led me into this to make sure that whether it's my

dad or others, business owners, high school athletes, whatever they may be, that they're never forced by the government to do something or say something that violates their religious convictions. Well, I throw this out there all the time when we're trying to raise money for something I believe in. I say to folks, if you'll make a donation of $10,000 to the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is as good a cause as it gets in this hour, folks. If you want to know what can I do, you can help the Alliance Defending Freedom. But if you'll make a donation of $10,000, it will be my honor to join you and your family or friends for dinner anywhere we can get together. I just put that out there because it's fun for me to meet people who care about what I care about,

who care about the country and religious liberty. And I want to encourage anybody out there, whatever you can give. We're in a battle right now, folks, and you're going to be sort of. sorry if you don't pitch in wherever you can. This is just one place. But if you don't pitch in now and all of these things go away and you're living in a different country, this is not scaremongering. This is real. I wish it weren't real, but it's very, very real. People's lives are already being affected. The difference between this country and other countries is we understand the law is on our side. All we have to do really is fight. That's what ADF does. So I'm going to ask you

again, please go to the lines of any freedom. I've got a phone number if you prefer to call. You can always call. And the number, well, the website, of course, is metaxistalk.com, but the number is 855-447-53-53-8553-55-547-53-53. Or again, go to metaxisstalk.com. You'll see the banner. We need your help. And Matt Sharp, thank you so much for the work. you do and for being on the program. Thanks for having me, Eric. Can you believe that James Tour? Oh, man.

Okay, folks, today, in hour one, we had James Tour. I feature him prominently in my new book, is atheism dead. There is nobody like him. In fact, he's sort of responsible for my writing the book. I'm not kidding. He and Stephen Collins, the archaeologist, the two. The two of them were what made me think, you know what? I need to write this book.

I hope you've pre-ordered several copies. If you want to do your Christmas shopping now, who's going to stop you? If you go to Eric Mataxis.com, the Baker Book Link, there may be others, but that one I know is 1497. That's 45% off for the book. Folks, nobody is coming near that. So if you want to buy multiple copies, you want to pre-order multiple copies, you want to pre-order multiple copies. I don't know how long that price will last.

You understand that's a ridiculous So I beg my friends, if you're going to buy it, get it now. And do the Christmas shopping now because Grouchy Fauci might cancel Christmas again this year so get it now early. That's right. That's right. It's part of the Luciferian agenda. We can't talk about that.

No, let's not. Okay, so here's the point I want to make. We are doing a fundraiser with the Alliance Defending Freedom. We need to hit it hard for some reason. I know people are probably fatigued, but I want to say that if you give money to the lines offending freedom, you're basically helping yourself in your country

because they are fighting for religious liberty. I can never stress it enough, and it always sounds like maybe I'm exaggerating. Folks, this is the central issue of our time. Liberty in general, but religious liberty is under attack without religious liberty, such as we have had for these 250 years almost, We cease to be America. Now, if you've read my book, if you can keep it, you'll understand that a little bit.

That is who we are. We have effectively ignored these ideas because we've said, oh, we're so blessed and we're so free. Well, in the midst of taking our eye off the ball, some dark forces have come in who see things differently. And your average American is having to fight like crazy simply to preserve his or her freedoms. religious liberty is at the top of the list. I mean, people are being threatened by, you know, Attorney General Merrick Garland if they did. I mean, you know all this stuff.

You hear in the news every day. If you want to do something about it, please, folks, I don't care. I think I said the other day, if it's the widow's might or the widows 20,000, we hope you understand how serious this is. And when people say, what can I do? I don't think it gets clearer

than this right here. If you give money to the lines defending freedom, they're defending a religious liberty, and it's not like there's a raft of these folks out there, okay? There's a tiny handful of organizations that do this. Pro bono, they take on these cases. My employee, Katie, Madonna,

they have gone to ADF because of a horrible thing that they are going through right now with an employer trying to force them to take an experimental jab. So like, if you get a blood clot or you die, what can we tell you? Get the jab. You want to keep your job. We don't care.

I'm just telling you, whatever you think about the vaccine, this is not America when people are forcing you to do stuff like this. And if you don't understand that, you're not doing your homework. That's a fact, what I just said. I can give you chapter and verse, but not now. Right. We need you to give to ADF. So please go to metaxis talk.com. If you prefer to use your phone, I'm going to read the number.

but we kind of desperately need your help. This is a big deal. 855-5-4-7-5-4-7-53-8-55-5-4-7-53-33. You can also help America by blessing people who've been canceled, whether that's me or Mike Lindell. Mike is such a hero. Go to my store.com. You can get all kinds of stuff there.

Use the code. Eric. Gorgeous, Bonhofer posters. We didn't have them before, specially made. They are gorgeous, they're huge. It's the cover of my book. It's that photograph. Go to mystore.com, use the code, Eric.

Go to frankspeech.com, use the code, Eric. It is now something you can use there. Thank you.