The Eric Metaxas Show - Mark Hemingway

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

Mark Hemingway gives chapter and verse on the hinky 2020 election -- he and wife Mollie expose it all in "Rigged: How the Media, Big Tech, and the Democrats Seized Our Elections."

to the Eric Mattaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hello there. Alvin, I'm never plugged in when we start these things, but it doesn't matter as long as you can hear me. I can hear you. You can hear you. Listen, today's Tuesday, right? Not just Tuesday. It's not just Tuesday.

What else is today? Today is your 25th wedding anniversary. Oh, stop. Come on. I would have remembered a thing like that. Well, Suzanne called and said, hey, don't forget to remind Eric. Look. I may be slightly forgetful, but I would never forget a thing like that.

We were married in 1996, okay, in October 12th. That makes it, about a quarter of a century, roughly. So I think that would be 25 years. Well, what the? Yes, really? Is that why this cake is here? With lit candles? I am so embarrassed because I said the nastiest thing to Suzanne this morning and on her anniversary.

You know what? I'm so glad I'm kidding about this. that. Hey, Halvin, seriously. By the way, the fire marshal said that I had to have a watering can on set. That is a beautiful Eric Mataxis show watering can. Can we auction that off? Well, we could. If anybody gives $5,000 to the Alliance Defending Freedom, show that watering can because that's unbelievable. Isn't this a wonderful watering can? You will get, you will get. You know what? I think we'll let it go for $2,500. Okay. Because it was used once. Okay. Seriously, folks, that is gorgeous. It's a gorgeous. It's galvanized.

deal. You understand the galvanizing process? I don't think people realize what it took for us to get that galvanized. $2,500 to food for the poor. I said food for the poor. That was our last campaign. To a license of any freedom. Now, Albin, this, I think the folks in the studio are afraid of the fire. To celebrate my anniversary with Suzanne, 25 years ago today, we were married. And everybody says the first 25 years are the hardest. Oh, they're the most fun. And let me tell you, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because sometimes, you know, they just don't listen, these spouses of mine.

Over the years, I've noticed that. But Suzanne is so wonderful. She even lets me joke publicly about things like that. Listen, everybody who knows me knows that I thank God for her. And I treasure her in our marriage so much that I joke about it. I think people who don't joke about it, they're kind of nervous. But I feel we're both committed to marriage. We have this crazy idea because we read,

the Bible, and sometimes we take it, you know, literally, where it says that Jesus doesn't allow marriage and stuff. And we're crazy enough to go that extra mile and say, yeah, we're going to believe what Jesus said because technically he's God. So we, but we can testify that if you do go through the tough times, your marriage gets stronger. That's true. And it's an interesting thing, because our marriage is unbelievably strong. No, seriously, I've seen that, and I've witnessed it to some extent in my marriage. So, Albin, first of all, I want to say, I know you drew this. I did, yes.

And because I care about you, I'm not going to show Suzanne the picture you've drawn of her. Because... What not? I don't know. Well, you know what, now that you mention it, it looks exactly... Honey? I have to do it by memory. Okay, I'm going to blow this out.

Since Suzanne and I are one, we blow with one breath. Ruach. And I had a blue candle and a pink candle, so there you go. Is this the blue one? That would be you. How can you tell it's blue? And that would be... And this is pink?

I can tell just by the color. This is so sweet. We're going to eat this on the break, and I'm going to bring a slice home for my current wife. What's your name again? Shoot, I always forget. She looks like that. Let me see. Oh, that's Suzanne.

Yeah. Yes. Seriously, is this such a happy day. I have to joke, right? I have to joke. Right? Hey, here, here, just to bring things down a notch, because people think, oh, that's so sweet, whatever, let me just get really, like, nasty and mercenary, all right? Just to show you that I'm that kind of a guy.

Nothing would bless Suzanne and me more than if you pre-ordered a copy of my new book, Is Atheism Dead? Why? Because we have a heart for evangelism, and we live in a cancel culture, and books like Is Atheism Dead tend not to find their way into. airport bookstores where all of the Michelle Obama memoirs are located, stuff like that. So in order to get there, the book has to be huge out of the gate. There is information in this book that is going to astonish believers and non-believers alike. It's all true. And I think we're in for a paradigm shift. Obviously, I only think my book is a small part of that. But I think something is happening in the country. People are waking up. And the information in this book is,

from science pointing to God, from biblical archaeology, and then the stuff at the end of the book, which is, I think, going to really freak some people out. I just want to say it needs to do well out of the gate. So if you want to wish us well on our 25th anniversary, I know I can speak for Suzanne, that we would be thrilled if you would pre-order many copies of the book so that when it officially comes out next week, all of those pre-orders will accrue to the first week and potentially we will get on some bestseller lists. And by the way, if you want to read it twice, get two books because I notice as I'm reading it, the page will disappear and I can't go back.

Right, right. That was designed. That's designed into it. So you have to get multiple copies. But after you've read it once, you really do want a fresh copy. You never want to read this same book twice, speaking as an author. But no, seriously, there's a link at our website, Eric Mataxis.com. I believe it's the Baker link.

I can't say officially. but the book, the $28 book is $14.97 there. So if you want to buy multiple copies for Christmas, and I'm not just talking this Christmas, Christmas is for years ahead. You want to stock up on this book before the jackbooted thugs, you know, come out of their underground all over the cities of the country.

The well-meaning jack-booted thugs. Yes, but they are well-meaning because they mean to crush us in humanity and justice in the name of love. And they don't even know what that means, but they don't care. Who cares? Okay, so seriously, I'm asking you to do that. And again, I don't do it lightly because I think there's information in here that once people know it, first of all, I'm going to say, how did I miss this? And then they're going to realize, well, you missed it because very few people report on this stuff.

So it's only by God's grace that I was able to find this stuff. But there's some insane stuff. I mean, the fact that Camus and Jean-Paul Sart came to faith, how can you even explain that? And then how can you think that, well, if it happened and there's documentation, nobody's written about it? I think, you know, people don't report on the news. Before we go, now, by the way, in the first hour, we're going to be talking to Molly Hemingway or to one of her many husbands about the stolen election. They're not going to say it's stolen because they don't want to go to jail, you know. In a free society, there's a lot of stuff you can't say.

But we're going to be talking about that in a couple of minutes. That is incredibly exciting. I just want to say that this is, you don't want to miss this, okay? In Hour 2, we're talking to Kirk Cameron. He's always doing something great, and I just love him. So we're talking to Kirk Cameron. But I've got a number of stories I want to tell in Hour 2. I was driven in a cab ride.

I was driven by a cabbie who was very recently a three-star general at the Pentagon. I'm not kidding. Wait till you hear that story. in New York kids. I want to talk about other things. Tomorrow on this program, Jenna Ellis is going to be here in the studio. We've got Lee Strobel coming up, Max McLean.

If you go to the My Store site, you can get all my books and these amazing Bonhofer posters. We're going to show you one in the studio. But before we go to the break, we are doing, in the next hour, I'm going to tell you what I want to give you. If you order, I'm sorry, if you go to 8th, ADF and give them $2,500. I'll explain in a few minutes.

But right now, let me just let you know that people are musseling free speech all around the country, especially in colleges. This is utterly un-American. If you shrug, you've become part of the problem, folks. We've got to fight. All of us who enjoy liberty in America, free speech, freedom of religion. If you don't fight, you become part of the problem. We cannot sit on our hands. The German church sat on their hands.

and we know what happened. They're still hanging their heads in shame. Larry Elder has something to say. Why don't we play the Larry Elder clip? It's no secret that our freedoms are under attack more right now than at any time in our history. Churches are being forced to close. Freedom of speech is being muzzled by school boards and on and on.

That's why I'm asking you to step up and make a donation to my friends at Alliance defending freedom. Legal defense for men and women just like you, they need your help to keep fighting court battles to protect your freedom. You have to go to metaxis talk.com. Right now, metaxistalk.com. Right now, metaxistock.com. Anything you can donate.

We're going to be back later. I'm going to share some crazy things that we want to give you to thank you. But please, we really need your help. God bless you. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot, have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip,

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It works. When you get the blues, come on, get rhythm. Hey there, folks. As promised, the author of a brand new book, it's called Rigged, how the media, Big Tech, and the Democrats seized our elections. You'll notice it doesn't say stole our elections. And I'm going to ask the author Molly Hemingway, who is a friend and just a lovely person and a great and heroic journalist.

I want to ask her why the title says rigged, but it doesn't say stolen. In any event, why waste any more time? Ladies and gentlemen, the lovely Molly Hemingway. Molly, you're looking especially lovely today. How are you? I'm doing fine. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

You're not Molly. Who is this person? I would be Mr. Molly Hemingway. Oh, you're Mark Hemingway. You know something? I met you. and now that you mention it, thank goodness. I was really worried.

I said everybody's been having a tough season, and I thought if Molly's let herself go to this extent, we need to cut this off right now. Mark, how long have you guys been married? There's a nice question. We have been married for, gosh, it'll be 15 years in three days. Wow. You're getting up there.

The two of you do work together. I did have the privilege finally of meeting you. I've read your tweets and other things over the years. But how is it that you come to be representing her on this book tour? Well, I'm not really telling tales out of school. I mean, I don't want to take away from the achievements my wife, which are, you know, monumental. However, I ended up largely co-writing this book with her. She says so in the acknowledgment of the book, even though my name isn't on the cover.

you know, at the end of the day, you know, the book money all go to the same bank account, I guess. But the circumstances in which we wrote this book were under an incredibly short time frame and other things that we felt, you know, was necessary to get this book out in time to discuss it this fall ahead of the election next year. And I just ended up getting drafted to help her do all the heavy lifting. Well, I'm glad you're here because there is, unfortunately, no more important subject than whether the greatest country in the history of the world still has free elections. I'm under the apprehension that we don't, and I can't think of anything worse because it affects

everything. So what is your principal thesis in the book? It's called rigged. It's possible, of course, to rig an election legally, and then there's this thing called stealing and going to jail. So what is your thesis? is? Well, there's obviously been a lot of stuff that's been thrown around since the election about, you know, various nefarious things that went on with the vote counting and things like that. You know, we at no point assert in this book that the election was quote unquote stolen that way, that the votes were, you know, miscounted or anything like that. At the same time, I think that there are plenty of things that can be done over the course of an election such that it will be conducted in such a way that people perceive it to not be, you know, a free and fair election. And so in that respect, we tried to step back and take sort of about 30,000-foot view of, you know, everything that happened in the election. In a lot of ways, it's, you know, campaign book in terms of, you know, covering how the media reported important news. But, you know, there is also granular reporting, for instance, on election laws in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Georgia and things like that and all kinds of things that, you know, should make people very worry about the specifics of our election system. And it just seems to me when it comes to the problems with counting votes, the whole game, basically, is to create the circumstances where fraud can occur.

And because they know that if fraud does happen, it's virtually impossible to root it out after the fact. I mean, fraud is most likely to occur among urban democratic machines in places like Milwaukee and Philadelphia, where they actually have an established history of this sort of thing. but at the same time you're counting on the local authorities or in this case a Democratic Justice Department to go in and point out that Democrats are cheating and you know that's not going to happen. So a lot of this is about restoring the perception of fairness to our elections because there were several things that happened where, you know, the election laws were applied inconsistently and they created opportunities for fraud and nobody knows what happened. And so people are right to have questions about this. So you're going out on a limb and saying that fraud is wrong? Yes, election fraud is very wrong. And contrary to what a lot of people have said, you know, election fraud is also very real.

I mean, we have at least one presidential election in, you know, living memory in 1960 where historians sort of broadly agree that, you know, there's plenty of evidence to suggest it might literally have been stolen from the person who rightfully won it. And at the same time, you know, there are plenty of, you know, isolated examples of voter fraud or problems with mail and ballots. You know, there was an entire election that we talked about in the book. And, you know, I broke this news nationally in 2020 where Patterson, New Jersey, there was a city council election that was substantially tainted by mail-in ballot fraud, where they figure something like 30% of the mail-in ballots were fraudulently cast. Well, it's always difficult, in a sense, to come to terms with a reality without appearing to say as though, well, these things happen. It's kind of like, you know, if the neighbor, you know, rapes and kills someone

else and someone says, well, you know, boys will be boys. You would, most people would be offended and saying that, that's not appropriate to say that. Just because it's happened before, it's horrific. I get the idea that many Americans are convinced that the election was, in fact, stolen. And of course, there are all these different words and ways to look at it. So before we go further into what I think is vitally important, which is what you write about in this book with Molly, about how to fix it. Do you rule out that the election was stolen, even though you don't make that case? That's not what the book is about. I think that in an election where, you know, well over 150 million ballots were cast, that that was decided by, you know, 40,000 votes across, you know,

a handful of states. You know, you can't have a lot of, you know, confidence. that that result was accurate at the end of the day. You know, I mean, there are plenty of other ways, you know, again, I would stress, though, to think about, you know, how this election was rigged other than, you know, actual ballot counting. I mean, for instance, we talked about this book. I mean, there's polling showing that had the media accurately reported the Hunter Biden scandal instead of literally broadly censoring it, that, you know, enough votes would have changed hands, you know, easily for Biden to have lost the election.

So, yeah, like I said, there are all kinds of specific things here that, you know, cast out upon how this election turned out. But you could, you know, largely say that about any close election. One of the frustrating things about what's going on here is that, you know, you have to remember there were official protests by Democrats in Congress, you know, and widespread conspiracy theories surrounding the 2004 election and the 2016 election, which were all coincidentally won by Republicans. And you go back to 2004, we're talking like, you know, crazy conspiracies about, you know, Karl Rove's cronies hacking voting machines in Ohio. And this was, you know, largely accepted by the mainstream media. You know, Hillary Clinton spent four years after 2016, literally calling Trump an illegitimate president that was only, that was installed by Russians and, you know, explicitly saying this,

and this was never condemned. Now all of a sudden, Biden eaks out the narrowest of victories in this circumstances and totally illegitimate and unpatriotic to even suggest there might be problems in our vote. the system. Where do we lay the blame? In other words, I think that there's layers, right? To me, the idea that

a number of deep state actors, you don't call themselves that, but would sign a letter calling the Hunter Biden laptop Russian disinformation. I think in a civilized society in the 19th century, many of them would be shot.

In other words, I think that this is a level of horror in America that we now act as though, well, these are grave, grave crimes against democracy because we all know that it wasn't Russian disinformation. So the idea that people would prostitute their titles and the credibility they've earned over decades for a nakedly political act, I just confess that I don't know where to go with it. I'm staggered that we've come to this point, not even to touch upon. on the idea that an entire journalistic class, apart from heroes like you and Molly Hemingway,

your wife and others, a few heroes would actually talk about this. But this is at least unprecedented in our lifetimes. I just can't remember anything that even comes near this, including 1968 and what followed. Yeah. You know, we try and talk about this in the book. I mean, part of the problem, I think, here, is that people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the totality of the problem. Okay. It would be very almost comforting to think that there's someone behind the scenes twirling their mustache, you know, pulling all the strings and making all this happen. But the reality is, is that we have this, you know, sort of like hive mind that operates,

you know, by, you know, playing cultural divides against each other where people just do this stuff, you know, kind of on, on, on, in lockstep without being, you know, told what to do, right? They're just convinced that the other side is, is so bad that, you know, they can bend the rules because they're saving us from some sort of larger harm. It's like that great C.S. Lewis quote about, you know, how it's, you know, much, you know, worse to live under moral busy bodies than, you know, criminals essentially because the moral busy bodies will torment you without end, you know, rather than, you know, simply satiating your greed. And that's, I think, what's going on here. Like you mentioned, for instance, the case of the, you know, 50 intelligence

professionals that came out and condemned the Hunter Biden laptop as Russian disinformation without knowing at all whether it was Russian disinformation. I mean, the reality, I mean, the is these people are just so gaslighted that the opposition is evil, that they're willing to say whatever they need to say. That's the point. And parenthetically, that's why Hitler killed the Jews. He thought they were bad and he needed to take action. We're going to be right back talking to the husband, so I'm told of Molly Hemingway. The book is rigged how the media, big tech and the Democrats seized our elections. Don't go away. Hey, folks, Eric Metaxis here. Joe Biden and the Democrats have laid out the most socialist agenda our country has ever seen.

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Don't leave your retirement to chance friends. Contact Legacy Precious Metals today. That's 866-473-6204. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to the husband of Molly Hemingway, Mark Hemingway. Together, they put together a brand new book called Rigged, How the Media, Big Tech, and the Democrats seized our elections. Mark, you were just saying that these generals and others who signed the letter calling the Hunter Biden laptop story Russian disinformation, they seem all to have known that they were lying, that they were lying to the American people, that they were using their, public persona in a way that would be effective

because of who they are and because of their titles and that they did it because they thought they had to save the Republic from another Trump presidency. And I only half jokingly refer to Hitler because very few people do

monstrous things thinking I'm doing something monstrous. They always have what they think of as good reasons. The difference is that in a country of laws, like the United States of America, there are these guardrails. There's the Constitution. We have jail for people who break laws. How is it, you think, that so many high figures, including Hillary Clinton, would very seriously lie?

In other words, know that they're lying and with a straight face, speak to American voters and citizens and say things that they know aren't even slightly true with some desired effect. Do you suppose that they never thought that they would be found out? Is that part of it? I mean, so in the case of someone as large as Hillary Clinton, I mean, I do think that there do exist, you know, avaricious narcissists at a level in our leadership in this country that should be concerning to us. You know, as for, you know, people that are further down the rung

that are the lieutenant supporting all this nonsense, I think a big part of the problem, of course, is the media in this country. I mean, we have a hugely asymmetric media system in this country. If I want to know what a liberal in this country thinks, I can turn on the television. And 10 seconds later, I know what it is. You know, liberals in this country, on the other hand,

because they have such, you know, a hegemonic, you know, control of all of these institutions, you know, they're not out there subscribing to the Claremont review of books or watching Eric McTaxis to see what conservatives think about important issues. So consequently, they are really stuck in this gigantic, like, feedback loop of information that is constantly, like, reinforcing all their biases. And I think it finally in the last, you know, decade or more reached a point where, well, actually, the last two decades or so, it reached a point where they just got so convinced that conservatives and Republicans and Christians and whatever else were, you know, all so evil in intent that they were justified in doing practically anything that, you know, they needed to maintain control of the levers of power. I mean, if you think that the primary purpose of the, you know, major journalistic institutions in this country is to decide elections, you know, that explains all their motivations and, you know, what they've been doing for the last couple of decades, far better than, you know, any sort of, I don't know, highfalutant nonsense about, you know, informing, you know, democratic voters. It strikes me, I don't know if you've watched Mr. Smith goes to Washington recently,

but the character played by Claude Raines, this deeply, deeply cynical, compromised, powerful figure in the Senate, or is at the House, I can't remember, but it strikes me that that is at the heart of what happens in a country like America. Those kinds of people will rise up, and you need characters like the young man, the naive, innocent young man who believes in America played by, is it Jimmy Stewart or Gary Cooper? Gary Cooper, I think. No, Jimmy Stewart. And I think to myself, that's kind of where we are right now. We have so many people in the tank really believing, hey, this is the way the system works. Don't be a Boy Scout. Wake up. And I feel that there's something really spiritually dark about that. Speaking as a Christian, I realize that this is not just realpolitik. This is ugly. This is antithetical to what the nation was based on.

And the simplest issue is, can we have free elections? So in the book Rigged, which you and Molly put together, you talk about what happened and what we can do about it. Do you think we're going to – is there anybody taking action to do about – to do things about this right now, because if we don't, we know that America is over. There's just no reason to vote if you don't know the person you voted for, we'll get that vote. So if there is a mild silver lining, it's that a lot of what happened there, specifically with regards to the electoral system and electoral laws being sort of abused, had a lot to do with COVID.

Basically, for a long time, Democrats have been pushing, you know, mail-in-balloting and all these other things that are, you know, inherently problematic. I mean, just to be clear here, you know, a study by Caltech and MIT, you know, not exactly a bastion of right-wing conservatives, you know, little over 10 years ago concluded that, you know, states should either eliminate or reduce mail in-balloting because it was so susceptible to fraud and, you know, expand early, you know, expand in-person the time for in-person voting. Similarly, Jimmy Carter chaired a bipartisan commission 15 years ago that concluded that mail-in balloting was the largest source of fraud in the U.S. system. So, you know, this shouldn't be a controversial opinion. Yet, Democrats are big on ballot harvesting,

and, you know, using their manpower advantage in terms of union and college volunteers and things like that to go out and collect ballots, which, you know, anytime you have a third party collecting ballots, that's inherently problematic. And the COVID allowed them to, you know, for the, you know, to have a justification to fulfill their, you know, fantasies of, you know, making mail-in-valid and, you know, much more widespread. I think Republican legislatures have gotten wise to this. And I, you know, and I think that they're going to be, much more careful in the future, I hope. And there are some evidence that they are about in terms of passing laws, governing, mail, and validing and the security measures surrounding them. Similarly, one of the other big things we talk about in this book was how Mark Zuckerberg spent in excess of $400 million, the CEO of Facebook sent on, you know, election infrastructure in this country. Ostensibly, all of these grants were to, you know, for COVID stuff.

It was supposed to be buying people. Hang on. Forgive me, Mark. We're going to break. Ladies and gentlemen, do not go away. Much more to come. Set the dirty mangy dog, but name me Sue. Hey folks, my friend Mike Lindell, the inventor and CEO of MyPillow,

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He spent $400 million to do something. The question is, was that wrong? Was that illegal? Can we blame him? What went wrong in that case? So in this case, Mark Zuckerberg spent in excess of $400 million on what was supposed to be improving the election infrastructure in America. Ostensibly, these were largely COVID grants like they were supposed to be going to pay for PPE for election workers and things like that. In reality, he funded this money, went through liberal groups where there were strings attached. And all of a sudden, these liberal groups, this wasn't just like outside spending where liberal groups were going in, you know, to try and have an impact on election. These people were embedded in like election offices with public officials that were supposed to be bipartisan or nonpartisan. And as a result, you know, Zuckerberg's own people essentially were doing everything from designing ballots to having access to, you know, state voter data.

Is this illegal? No. And that's the crazy thing about it. This is like so insane that anyone would have tolerated this that no one ever even thought to pass any laws against it. You know, right now there's a bill in Congress, for instance, where they were. want to stop the private funding of deploying of National Guard troops at the border, which is something a bunch of rich people in Texas did recently. And I think there are, I agree with that. I think there are certain functions that are so important they should not be funded privately because of the risk of, you know, tainting them. And this is a classic example of that when, but Democrats, you know,

and by the way, this money was by Mark Zuckerberg was deployed in such a way it was extremely partisan, for instance, you know, Trump counties in Pennsylvania received 59. cents in Zuckerberg money per voter, whereas, you know, Biden counties averaged, you know, $2.85 per voter in terms of the money they got from Zuckerberg. I mean, this was specifically targeted to Democratic counties to basically juice Democratic turnout, and it came from a Facebook, it came from the CEO of Facebook. I mean, if that doesn't stink to high heaven, I don't know what, what, what does. The good news is that the Republican legislatures are now trying to ban the private funding of

election administration. What happened in Maricopa County recently, everywhere I look, I get the impression, even if I didn't know what to think or if I didn't have a dog in the fight, I would get the impression that the Democrats are scared to death of transparency. When someone is scared to death of transparency, that tells me they have something to hide. Am I mistaken? Have I misread some of the foot dragging that I have seen in Arizona? and in other places? Well, I mean, obviously there was a lot going on there with the Arizona recount, and some of it was, you know, did seem a little crazy. But having said that in terms of the initial decision to do a recount, Arizona was a state that was well known for actually running fairly clean elections. I mean, Arizona is not like Pennsylvania or Wisconsin,

where there is a long history of shenanigans in terms of counting ballots. And Arizona was the opposite of that. So why anyone would have feared a recount in Arizona, especially when it, you know, didn't actually change things, I think does kind of reveal to what you're saying there that they are suspect in transparency. When you refer to shenanigans, are you talking about anti-American criminal activity? Well, like, for instance, you know, in 2020, a former Democratic congressman was indicted by the Justice Department for fraud over several elections in Philadelphia involving tampering with voting machines. I mean, like, that stuff still happens in America.

You know, is it, you know, on a crazy widespread basis? Well, it's hard to say because there's so little effort in this country put into policing voter fraud. But, you know, we know it's been a major part of our history. And what's crazy is that most people don't realize it wasn't until like 1950 or so that all 50 states basically had, you know, private in-person voting in this country that, you know, they had a secret ballot, you know, which is something that we've taken for granted forever. There's been a history of corruption in this country. Do you discount machine fraud along the lines of what Mike Lindell got into? The reason I ask is because there was a film put out by HBO a few years ago called Kill Chain, coming mainly from a Democratic point of view,

but it made extremely clear that it is possible to hack the machines. Couldn't be easier, frankly, to hack the machines. and the Democrats were deeply worried about it. And the moment the election was called for Biden, everybody went, mom, nobody mentions Kill Chain, made by HBO, hardly in bed with the GOP or the Trump voter. What do you think about that side of things? Because a lot of people think that if we don't go to paper ballots,

if we don't do away with these mysterious machines, no one will ever believe that the election was not seen. stolen. Yeah. Well, I think that there is no proof that is, you know, convincing proof that has emerged at all that boating machines were hacked or tampered with in such a way that, you know, had a significant impact on the 2020 election. That is not the same thing as saying that, you know, just because there's no proof, you know, doesn't, and it's not, I'm not saying that just because there's no proof that we should not be concerned about how easy boating machines are at hacked. I mean, obviously, you know, cybersecurity experts have demonstrated this again and again and again and again.

And, you know, we have plenty of reasons to, you know, believe that cyber warfare and all these other things are, you know, ramping up. So this is something that we need to be very, very careful about. And it's like everything else, you know, a big part of the reliability of our system and a big part of our democracy relies upon, and this is something we're talking to the book, the consent of the losers, you know, that we all accept the results are valid. And if you don't have confidence in the election and that confidence is not widely shared, then you have a huge, huge, huge. problem on your hands, regardless of whether or not there's proof of their being, of there being, you know, an election hacked or, you know, outright fraud. So you need to put, you need to put measures in place so that people have confidence in the outcome. And unfortunately, for Democrats in their agenda, that does mean much more emphasis on in-person voting and much less emphasis on

electronic voting, I think, as we go forward. Well, why wouldn't China, for example, who, you know, the Chinese communist leaders, they're evil. They not only don't believe in God, they don't believe that human beings are anything except product to be used as they see fit. Why would people that are as immoral as that shrink from doing anything they possibly could to install a man who's effectively a puppet who will certainly never dream of standing up to them in the way that Trump did? Isn't it perfectly logical to assume that they would do everything,

to make that happen. It just strikes me that way. I don't think that's a crazy concern at all. I mean, obviously, that's, you know, tampering with an election on that scale is not above China. And, you know, it's certain a possibility. I mean, I can only say that, you know, no convincing proof has emerged and anything like that has happened. Well, forgive me. We're going to go to a break. A few more minutes left with Molly Hemingway and Mark Hemingway brand new book, rigged how the media, big tech and the Democrats seized our elections. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to Mark Hemingway, the author with Molly Hemingway, of the new book

Rigged. Mark, you mentioned a silver lining earlier. One of the silver linings to me in the horror show that's unfolded in the last year and change is that many Americans who were sleeping are waking up. They've been forced to wake up, whether it's the high gas prices, the lies that they hear about what happened or didn't happen in Afghanistan. Your average American knows that even if they voted for Biden, something's wrong with this picture. They're not getting what they thought. Everything looks not just not great, but in fact disastrous. So I think that's a good thing. And I think that many Americans have been persuaded that they need to do more, that they need to get involved in their democracy and help keep the republic. And I think your book rigged

is for a lot of those people that want to find out what can I do to get involved. I need to get involved in my local elections, my state elections. Would you say that this book will appeal to that kind of a person who wants to know how they can help? Absolutely. I think a big part of what happened and why people feel uneasy about the last election is simply because they, you know, a lot of things that were supposed to happen that we're accustomed to happening are not happening anymore. Like, for instance, you know, we can't purport, we can't purport to be shocked that Joe Biden is as bad as he has been thus far simply because, you know, he wasn't tested in the election. I mean, you know, no one bothered to hold into account. You know, normally it's the media's job

to ask a lot of probing questions and put people on the hot seat. that just didn't happen. I mean, the guy camped out in his basement for months, and then they pretended that, you know, major corruption, and then they literally censored his, you know, major corruption stories involving him. So I think that people, you know, are, one, they're growing much more skeptical of sort of the established authorities, which is good. They need to start thinking much more independently. And the other thing is that they do need to get more involved in sort of their local elections. There are various ways to do that. But they, they, need to start paying attention to what's going on, you know, in terms of, you know, local city offices, you know, how elections are managed and what their state legislature is doing to ensure that they have confidence in their elections.

You know, already in states like Georgia, Texas and other places that had, you know, all kinds of problems, you know, you're seeing reform movements and hopefully the voters follow through and make sure that those have, you know, teeth. The election coming up 2022, it's right around the corner, practically. Do you have a sense that the American people will be able to trust what happens then? We'll be able to move quickly enough? Huh. That is a really good question. You know, I don't know. I mean, the 2020 and 2016 were both extraordinarily close elections.

And when you have really close elections, that highlights all of these problems within the system. 2022, at least thus far, is not shaping up to be a close, particularly close election. It looks like Republicans are going to do well no matter what. So it's harder to make an issue out of, you know, things that might make a difference around the margins in terms of, you know, tweets to election law and things of that nature. So I don't know. I mean, if it turns out to be an extraordinarily close election, then, you know, maybe. there won't have been time to have made a difference.

But if it's just a blowout for Republicans, then it won't really matter. I'm not even persuaded that the last election was closed. That's what I think the problem is. In other words, it seems common sense tells you very few people would vote for a doddering man, a political hack, career politician like Joe Biden. It's just common sense. Some people hated Trump enough that they were willing to do that. But the idea that Trump, uh,

that Trump can get these monstrous crowds, enthusiastic people, and that Biden can barely take questions from the press. I really wonder what the exact results were of the last election. In any event, very grateful to you, Mark Hemingway, and to Molly Hemingway for writing the book rigged. Thanks, and God bless you.