The Eric Metaxas Show - Mark Wahlberg and Robert Morgan

Episode Date: April 14, 2022

Mark Wahlberg discusses his motivation for playing the title character in the new film, "Father Stu"; then, Robert J. Morgan brings the miracle of the parting of the Jordan River to life in his book, "The Jordan River Rules."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Eric McTaxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Oh, boy. I know. It's Wednesday. It is. You knew that. Just like right off the top of your head. You knew. I looked at the calendar. Look at that Wednesday again. Unbelievable. Well, Alvin, we got a lot of things this here. Some happy, some sad, some tough.

some happy, some tough. First of all, we should let the audience know that in a couple of minutes, we're going to air my conversation with Mark Wahlberg. I probably should talk about that up front. But before I get into that, my experience with Mark Wahlberg,

before I get into that, I should say that we have a lot of exciting guests coming up. We've been getting some amazing, guess. Yesterday we had Jenna, our friend. I'm trying to think that was yesterday. Yeah. Jenna, Jenna was yesterday. At the beginning of my conversation with Jenna Ellis, we had Rudy Giuliani. She introduced me to Rudy Giuliani. And then, of course, on Monday, we aired the interview with Rudy Giuliani. Both hours. What I didn't share, I've had just a crazy few weeks. We had the honor of dinner, with Mayor Giuliani on Sunday night.

And his son, Andrew Giuliani, was there. His son is running for governor in New York. And let me tell you, we need him. Oh, boy, would that be amazing? Because once you get to know him a little bit, we're going to have him on the show, which is to say Andrew Giuliani. He is, oh, gosh, it's just wonderful to think

that there are people out there who would be wonderful in these roles. But it makes me think of the fact yesterday there was a shooting on the subway in New York. Now, I just want to tell you, New York, since Michael Bloomberg left office, because he was sort of continuing the Giuliani policies, since he left office, things have been going downhill in New York. So when you hear about something like a subway shooting, you almost can't believe it, because New York has been so safe for so. so long. And I just thought to myself, Rudy Giuliani would not let this kind of stuff happen. So you have a mayor now, Eric Adams. I don't know if he is willing to do what it takes. But if you

listen to the conversation that we had with Giuliani, Giuliani knows how to deal with this. This is not rocket science. It's really, it's, it's fixable. That's the horror to me of places like Chicago. It's fixable, but you don't have the political will. Anyway, I want to re-air my conversation with Giuliani, maybe next week sometime. But it's just, it's just heartbreaking to think that that's the case. We had Laura Logan on the other day. We're going to get her back. We've got Oz Guinness coming up. We have Dave Rubin coming up. We have David Berlinski coming up. We've got all kinds. And those just the ones I can. remember right now. Those are just the daves. Those are just the daves. That's right. So,

um, okay, so we, um, I guess so, so let me say a little bit about the dinner with Giuliani. Yeah. Jenna, who worked with him, uh, you know, as a lawyer for Trump. Co-counsel, yeah, co-counsel with Giuliani, who is, you know, one of the greatest prosecutors who has ever lived. I mean, if you know his story, you can look him up. He, you know, he said, oh, we're going to be watching the Masters on Sunday afternoon. So when he come up to the apartment before we go to dinner? So we go up to the apartment and, you know, it's just such a crazy honor to meet the mayor. And, I mean, I met him years ago.

He wouldn't have remembered. But he was so friendly, so affable. genial, generous, that it was really beautiful to see that somebody who has achieved this greatness in his life. I mean, he has done, again, most people, they only remember what happened, you know, in the last year.

He's just been so amazing, but he was so wonderful. We went over to Bar Italia, which is on Madison Avenue, and, you know, some woman who was a fan of his wanted to get a picture, he acted like she was doing him a favor. He was so sweet to her, you know. So sometimes,

you hear what people are like behind the scenes when they're not faking it. But it was just, it was wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful. So anyway, if you didn't hear that, if you didn't listen to that, you can go, obviously we post everything on Rumble. I want to say again, we're putting everything, we put everything out via email. You have to sign up for Eric Mataxis.com. And we send you everything. We'll send you the Mark Wahlberg, the Dave Rubin, the, you know, everything. So it's right there for you. So you don't have to go looking for it. Okay, so we come to the film Father Stu. Yes.

I interviewed Mel Gibson the other day about it, right? And I'm not, as you know, I'm not like a hard-hitting journalist. I'm not going to ask the tough questions. That's just not who I am. Maybe I'll become that. But right now, I'm just not the kind of person that's going to put somebody on the spot. Don't become that. We want the lovable air.

Well, I mean, you know, there's a role for that to ask a hard question. But not yours. But I'm no Barbara Walters. No, you aren't. What kind of tree would you be? Of all the trees, if you could be a tree, what tree would you be? Yeah, but you could be a barber. I could. Yes, I could. In this day and age.

But the fact is that with Mel Gibson, I just thought it's just an honor to interview him, and I don't want to get into the controversial stuff and ask him controversial stuff. But there's a lot of controversial stuff. And with Mark Wahlberg, it was in person.

It wasn't a Zoom thing. But it's set up by Sony. When a film comes out, like this father stew, I guess, you know, they set it up and it's like part of a junket, as they call it. So you feel a little bit I don't know, it's just kind of a strange, it's very different from interviewing somebody that you get. It's like you're on their turf.

Yeah, you're on their turf and they treat you like the underling that you are. So it's kind of funny. So the night before I had to watch the film, Father Stu, because they wanted me, it was important to them that you watch it before you do that, right? Probably because they've had like really callow journalists doing these interviews who, you know, don't know how do I pronounce Mark. And so they want you to watch the film. So I watch the film. And the thing that I have to say to my audience is it's wall-to-wall F-bombs. It's like loaded with cursing, totally unnecessary cursing. So even though it's a sweet film, it has heart, it's a pro-god film, it's a this or that, it is just not the film you could say, hey, take the family. You know, no, you can't take the family.

You can't recommend it to the youth group because it's basically what. So I thought, do I want to bring this up with Mark Wahlberg? Not really. Do I want to put him on the spot? He financed it. You know, he used millions of his own money to do it. He does a beautiful job. I mean, he's a really excellent actor.

And he did a great job in it. But I didn't want to bring that up. But it was kind of funny to me that I'm interviewing this guy about this family film. It's not a family film, but it's a very pro-faith Catholic film. And it's wall-to-wall F-bombs. It's like David Mammon. wrote the screenplay. So I didn't ask him about that. It's based on a true story, too. I wonder if the real life father, Stu, it was like that, you know. So we don't know, we don't know. But it is kind of funny that

I just didn't have the heart, you know. And also, I think sometimes when you're in the presence of people like this, like he's an A-list star. I mean, in 2017, he made more money than any actor in Hollywood. So it's that level of, you know, zillionaire, top-level actor. And I almost feel like I don't want to give them a hard time. Like I feel like, you know what? He came to New York. He's doing this thing. He's doing a faith film. He's doing that. So I didn't want to give him a hard time. But also, he was very serious. And as you know, Albin, and as my audience knows, if I can't joke around, you might as well tie my hands behind my back. Like, I don't even know how to communicate if I can't, you know, tease you. But with him, I didn't feel like I could really tease him. It was like he wasn't either in the mood

or he wasn't going to get the joke or whatever. So it's kind of a serious interview. So we're going to play it in just a moment. When we come back from the break, we're going to play that for you. All right. And in our two, anyway, we've got a lot going on today. We've got a lot of this crazy stuff. I want to remind people that we,

if you go to my website, which is Ericmataxis.com, you can see my speaking schedule. This weekend, this Friday. Oh, my gosh. That's the day after. Yes, that's right. Today I'm flying today. To Tucson, Arizona. I'm speaking in Tucson at an early morning, good Friday breakfast. That's this Friday. I'm traveling a lot in the weeks and months ahead. Go to my website, Ericmetaxis.com. Folks, I probably have never mentioned it before. But if you don't sign up for my newsletter, you're missing all the candid photos. We'll be right back. Eric, why is relief factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain? I'm often asked that question.

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Get ready. It's going to be my slightly boring interview with Mark Wahlberg because I'm not joking. Yeah, it's almost funny. It's like, hey, what would Eric be like if he asked to interview somebody and there's no humor allowed? Yeah. Well, now you're going to find out. Mark Wahlberg is coming up in two seconds. And I was able to joke around with Mel Gibson.

Yeah, you are. I was able to joke around with Rudy Giuliani. It was nonstop joking. Usually I joke around if I can't joke around. And Mel said about metaxis, and so did Mark at the end of the interview. Actually, you know what he did. He did. Listen, I want to be really clear.

Wahlberg was a nice guy. I really like him, but he was just very serious. So I don't know nothing about that. But I guess I want to say also to people who are tuning in, please support our sponsors. Please support Mike Lindell. Go to my store.com. The Bonhofer poster is gorgeous. I promise you.

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Mark, it's great to meet you. I've got to tell you. I'm happy to meet you. I'm happy to meet you because when somebody comes to faith and then is willing to, you know, bring that into their craft, that's rare. that's rare and that's really what the main thing I want to ask you about when did your faith become real for you because it's obvious you wouldn't make a film like this if it wasn't important to you it's been very real for me from a very early age I mean I do accredit all of my personal and professional success to my faith now that being said um you know like a lot of people you get to trouble you turn to

god and please help me and this will never happen again um but when I started doing good things good things started happening for me. I'm a man of routine. You know, people always give me a hard time about my schedule, but that's what keeps me centered. And it's at, you know, the base of that is that in my prayer time and my scripture reading and then, you know, of course, you know, working out. And then I feel like I can conquer the world until I go and wake up my teenagers. And then I realize I need lots of help. But, uh, but yeah, I think I've always felt like I wanted to do more with the talents and gifts that were given me for the greater good and for, to fulfill God's purpose. You know, he put me in this position for a reason and it's not to just keep making,

you know, comedies that sometimes work and sometimes don't. And so, uh, when this came to me, I really felt like it was, uh, it was meant to be. Well, I mean, there are a lot of people that say they're Christians, but you'd never know it from their work. So I guess my question is, what, at what point, first of all, at what point in your life as an adult did it become really serious? You talk about scripture reading, whatever, you know, there's a lot of people that say, I believe in God, but that's serious. Gosh, becoming a dad, you know, becoming a dad, becoming a husband. You know, the older you get, the more serious it gets, right?

And that being said, now, I don't make a decision based on whether I'm going to do something and compromise my artistic integrity just because of my faith. You know, I've always hoped that God is a movie fan. I've made movies that are about tougher subjects that, you know, that I've had, have been things that I wanted to do and challenge myself as an actor. But I definitely am committed to and looking forward to doing more faith-based content and more stuff that just has substance and helps people. At some point in the past, I know that you reached out to some people to make amends.

You had altercations when you were young and stuff. But, you know, that's a big deal. A lot of people just don't, they just let it go. And what I'm saying is it still seems to me like at some point something happened where Jesus comes into your life in a new way. Because, I mean, I had faith as a kid, but it wasn't into my 20s that something happened. Was it like that for you, or was it more gradual?

It was more gradual. It just seems like everything is directly connected to my faith. So, you know, what I'm doing professionally, what I'm doing personally, how I want to grow as a man, how I want to be an example, as a father, you know, the kind of husband that I want to be. be all those things. So, you know, it's just, it's renewed every day.

It starts with expressing my gratitude and then kind of asking from my marching orders and what can I do to, you know, do my part. Was it fun working with Mel Gibson? Fun in this. We'll probably have more fun on Daddy's Home, but we had 30 days to shoot this movie. The great thing about this film was every single actor, whether it was Mel or Malcolm McDowell or Jackie Weaver or Teresa Ruiz or all the rest of the wonderful cast that we had everybody wanted to be part of telling Father's Stu's story, which is a unique thing.

You don't get it that often where people are attracted to a movie that basically doesn't have anything to offer you other than being a part of something that could be special. You know, it was not a paying gig for sure. I was financing the movie myself, so I had to, you know, I had to manage the budget. But people really wanted to be a part of it and telling the story and being part of the vision. And so, you know, that's a unique experience. When something comes together like that, and of course now the powers that be at work, this movie's been blessed for a very long time. Well, I still want to, maybe, because you're in the Hollywood world, I'm not, I live here in Manhattan.

It's such a rare and happy and encouraging thing to see A-list stars putting their faith out there. It's a big deal. And I guess it probably comes with a price. But, you know, people are rooting for folks like you to live out your faith. So that's a long way of saying thank you. Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate it. I think it's one of the only ways to really bring people together, right? We're all trying to see the good in everybody.

And this movie is about redemption, and nobody's beyond that if they're willing to do the work, if they honestly and sincerely repent. And, you know, want to go and do the work to turn their lives around. You know, but God knows your heart. So there's no fooling God. Correct. And I got to ask you, you mentioned your workout routine. I was jealous of your guns.

When you took your shirt off from the baptism thing, I said, this guy is really still working hard. What is your workout? Will you share? What is your workout routine? Today, I just squeezed it in. I mean, I'm traveling, promoting the movie. I've never worked so hard to kind of get the word out there about a film.

But, you know, I usually like to get in there, you know, three or four in the morning, get it done right after my prayer time. But I go to bed. If I get up at three, I go to bed at seven. I like my sleep, eight hours. Rest and recovery is just as important. That is amazing. How do you get to bed that early?

That's astonishing. I say, good night to my wife and my kids. And I say, yeah, you can tear it up downstairs, be quiet upstairs. I got to get up. And then I'm waking them up in the morning. So they say, good night to me, you know. And they're the last faces I see, and then I'm the first face they see in the morning. You've always been ambitious.

Have you always been disciplined? I mean, it seems kind of amazing to me. From a very early age, I have been disciplined. You know, when somebody actually was willing to take a chance on me, give me a job, give me an opportunity, I took that very seriously. And, you know, I always pride myself on making sure that I could over-deliver for people who would bet on me. Is that what attracted to you to the character of Father Stu? Because he seems like that the maniac who will not take no for an answer, he's just going to do whatever he needs to do. I mean, is there a little bit of you in that?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think lots of me and Stu, and, you know, I've been preparing for, you know, a majority of my life to play this part in many respects. Yeah. I said it earlier. Hollywood doesn't talk a lot about Jesus, but most people in America talk about Jesus. And you have not shrunk from that. Do you have other projects, faith-based projects lined up or not yet? I have other stuff that would kind of fall under the aspirational, inspirational, you know, faith-based title, but I'm hoping that this project, well, not only for projects for myself, but other people, young filmmakers, talent, people that have stories that they want to tell, that they maybe want to be the face of, that I can help get them made as well. So yes, in successive Stu, we're hoping to really start a faith-based component and do lots of meaningful stuff,

both film, television, long form, short form content. This is good news. This is good. I'm excited about it. Have you ever heard of Dietrich Bonhofer? No. German pastor got involved in the plot to kill Hitler. A lot of people have heard of Maximilian Colby,

but there are few people like that, really heroic, amazing figures. There's a film about him coming out next year. I just want to know if you'd heard about him. And so final question, Are there any heroes in the faith that inspire you in particular? Yes, the unsung heroes, the ones that are in the field on the street, beating the pavement every day, just reaching out to people, letting them know they're there.

I've been so fortunate. You know, God puts people in your life at the right time for a reason, and I've met so many people, and they're the reason why I'm here today. So it's the unsung heroes that are in the communities, in the churches, in the schools, in the boys and girls clubs. Yeah. All right, you're a good man, Mark. Thank you.

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Robert Morgan, welcome. Thank you so much. I want to be very clear, Robert J. Morgan, not to be confused with all the other Robert Morgans that are out there. I'm sure there's a few. There are, but there's only one Eric Mataxis. You know what? There probably are others.

I feel sorry for those people. And I love your new book. About atheism, I cannot put it down. I've been reading it on the plane everywhere I've been going. Well, it's very good. Music to my ears. Thank you very much. Very readable.

Yes, I think it is readable, and I hope my stuff is readable, because I feel like the information is so important. I want to get it out to people. But when I hear something like that, it is really music to my ears. Thank you. And we're here to talk about your books, actually. You've written many books. You are an author. You do a lot of speaking.

You've sold millions of copies of your books. How did you get, I always want to know people's stories because your book, the one that we're going to talk about right now is called the Jordan River Rules. And you wrote a book called The Red Sea Rules. The Red Sea Rules. I want to talk to you about those books, but how did you come, where did you grow up and how did you come to be the writer of many books? Well, I'm a native Tennessee, and I grew up in the mountains. I'm a hillbilly. I tell people I grew up where God made the sunshine and we made the moonshine. And I was married out of college and my wife and I began pastoring in the mountains, Katrina and I.

And then we moved to Nashville. And so I've been a pastor there for over 40 years. And I would write out manuscript, my sermons. And eventually they began, you know, Nashville is a mecca for publishing companies. And so eventually they turned into books. And my wife went to heaven a couple of years ago. But I just keep on writing. But now my ministry is primarily writing and speaking. I'm still connected with my church in Nashville. But as a caregiver, I had to step away from full-time pastoring. And my wife, Katrina, had multiple sclerosis. But that's the way that we got into it. I didn't really intend to be a writer, but preparing sermons sort of paved the way for it. Right. Well, I want to talk to you because it's Holy Week, it is great to talk about your new book, the Jordan River Rules.

It's a small book, 10 God-given strategies for moving forward. It says, the same God who led you out will lead you on. Now, tell us about the previous book, because just yesterday I was in the studio. and I saw a red book. This book is blue, and it says the Jordan River Rules. Yesterday I saw a red book, and the red book said the red sea rules, and I got them confused. I said, how come one has a red cover and one is a blue cover?

Now I realize, oh, there are two different books. One is about the Red Sea. The one of the other was about the Jordan River. But tell us about the first book, the Red Sea Rules. You said it came out 20 years ago? Yes, about 21, 22 years ago. I was flying to America from Athens. from Athens, wow.

Well, I had a very difficult problem. I was coming back to deal with, and my heart was very low. And I opened up my Bible on the plane to Exodus 14. And God made a way for the Israelites through the Red Sea. And as I studied Exodus 14, I couldn't write fast enough to write down the insights that God gave me. And I came back, and they eventually proved adequate and efficacious in my situation. So I preached a series of sermons on those 10 principles from Exodus 14. We call this series God will make a way.

And then they became this little book, The Red Sea Rules, which has sold three quarters of a million copies. And now, 20 years later, my wife passed away, and I was reading in Joshua. And the first word said, Moses, my servant is dead. Now, therefore, arise and go on. And I realized that the same God who parted the Red Sea also parted the Jordan River. We rarely hear about that. And I remember when I first discovered that when I was a new believer, I thought, wow, I've never heard this. This is, you know, an equal miracle, really, even though the Jordan River isn't quite the Red Sea.

Nonetheless, you think this is just a flat out miracle of God, and we really don't talk about it as much. We don't. And, you know, Eric, some of the young. people remembered the Red Sea parting. And the Lord replicated that miracle to give them a reminder. And so the theme of the Red Sea rules is the same God who led you in will lead you out. The theme of the Jordan River is the same God who led you out will lead you on. And this book is about moving on to new stages in life. Whether you're graduating college, whether you're a widower like I am, whether you're changing vocations, whatever it is. The same God who parted the Jordan

River has stages that he's preparing us for. Every stage of life is better. And all of the other stages have prepared us for the one that's coming up in our lives. That's beautiful. And what an important message. I mean, anyone who has lived a little while knows life is tough. Ladies and gentlemen, no one is exempt. If you're alive, you go through stuff. And whether it's losing a loved one, or going through innumerable things. I just think of the people I know and I think of my own life. I had an old friend who used to say, Eric, pain hurts. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are, what stature you have, your income.

Pain hurts. And the Lord allows us to go through stuff, but he wants us to go through it with him, not alone. He wants us to go through it his way. And when we come back, we will find out more about what Robert Morgan has written in his new book, The Jordan River Rules. It's the Eric Metaxos show. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, if you listen to this program, of course, you've heard me talk at infinitum about my pillow and my friend Mike Lindell. Well, Mike has just announced that you will receive one of his books, and the book is next level insane.

It is called What Are the Odds from Crack Addict to CEO? It's his story. You will receive it absolutely free with any purchase using the promo code Eric. Did you hear that? It would be a great time, by the way, to buy his warm and wonderful My Slippers. For a limited time, he's offering 50% off my slippers. We all wear them in my extended family. My slippers.

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That's 800, 978-3057. And use the promo code, Eric. Folks, welcome back, as you know, in a couple of days. We have Good Friday, and then, of course, Easter. So we're talking about some interesting things with regard to the body. Bible, the scripture. And I'm sitting here with Robert Morgan, whose book, new book, is the Jordan River Rules, not to be confused with the gigantic bestseller, the Red Sea Rules, which came out over 20 years ago.

The new one is the Jordan River Rules. So, you know, for folks like me who, okay, we've been led out of bondage and sin and unbelief, but when you come to faith, your problems don't go away, you just you're just able to deal with them in a new way. But so what are some of the things that you say in the book the Jordan River rules? Well, it has to do with going forward. The Lord always wants us to go forward. And the Israelites have been going around in circles

for 40 years in the desert. Oh, that's, okay, that's what sets this up. Yes, yes. Because before they cross over into the promised land, they have been circling for 40 years, not ready to go in. And a lot of people feel stalled in life. But the Lord wants us to go forward. He's got new adventures for us, new land to conquer, new things for us to do. It says, Eric, in Numbers chapter 33, the Lord said to Moses, write down all of the stages through which I have led you.

And I believe the Lord leads us in stages through life. And so the thesis for this book is the next stage is better in many ways than the previous one. and all of the other stages have prepared us for this one. And that opening chapter of Joshua says, Moses, my servant is dead, therefore arise and go forward over this Jordan. I will be with you every step that you take. That land will be given to you as I was with Moses. I will be with you. I will never leave you or forsake you.

And it's a tremendous encouragement to people to get out of that stalled place in life. And to go forward because God has a place. plan, an individual plan for every one of us. And the next stage of your life, of our lives, is going to be better because we'll be more mature, we'll be growing, and the Lord has new things for us to do. This is kind of a problem in our culture, and I rarely say this, but I think it a lot, and I'll say it now. We live in a sick culture, and this culture, roughly since the 60s has been preaching a lie. And the lie is that youth is better than old age. To be young, the young have something, they have an innocence and whatever. That's totally unbiblical. Totally

unbiblical. The scripture says that, you know, when you have years under your belt, God makes you a richer, deeper person because you have suffered and you've experienced things. and we need to value that. And we do need to believe that, you know, if somebody says, oh, my best days are behind me, that's a lie from the pit of hell. I will say that. It is a lie from the pit of hell. God says, first of all, yeah, you may not be able to jump as high or you may not.

But God is about other stuff. And that's what you're talking about in this book. Absolutely. And one of the wonderful verses, this book covers Joshua chapters 1 through 6. And one of the wonderful verses is stay close. to the Lord, for you have not been this way before. And that's true for us in the future. You know, as a nation, as a people, as churches, as individuals, as we go into tomorrow, we have not been this way before. But we have a God who guides us. He has risen from the dead.

He knows the way. He goes behind us. He goes before us. As he was with Moses, he will be with us. He will not leave us or forsake us. And those assurances give us the confidence that he He has the future mapped out for us, and he's going to lead us all the way through life and on to heaven. I want to, you know, just underscore that because I really do know. I know we live in a culture that lies to us, the voice of Satan in our ears, that, you know, your best days are behind you. It's just now, you know, just to wait for death, or now you just have to kind of manage the decline.

That's not the voice of God. and we need to stand heroically against the voices of hopelessness and darkness and understand those are lies. Those aren't just unhelpful. They're lies. And we need to believe what God says. And what God says is what you've put in this book, Robert Morgan. And it is, we need to hear it over and over and over because many of us struggle with this.

Every one of us, as you get on in years, these voices. these things that you hear, these messages in the culture, that are simply not true. That's true. I so deeply believe that God leaves us on this earth in order to do something for him, and not until we're finished with it. Will he take us to heaven?

And we run into obstacles along the way, but the Israelites in chapter 6 came to Jericho, but they encircled it as the Lord commanded them, and they just marched around it. So as we come to obstacles, whatever our age, we encircle it with prayer, we encircle it with the Lord's presence, we encircle those obstacles with perseverance, and the walls somehow come down. The Lord is in control of our lives.

The same Lord who rose from the dead brings down the walls that are in opposition to us and gives us victory in our hearts and victory in our lives. Well, I have to say it's obvious that, you know, you know, you were a pastor because you have a pastor's heart and these are the kinds of things we need to hear. I mean, when people say, like, well, I don't go to church, folks, you need to hear these things. You may think you know the truth, but if you don't have it reminded over and over and over again, our sin nature, we forget these things, that the whole world is warring against this truth. And we need to be reminded over and over to walk in hope. So what are some of the

other things in the Jordan River Rules, the book that I'm holding in my hand, that we can talk about. Well, one of the interesting aspects is in chapter two, two spies for the swollen Jordan River, and they end up in the house of a prostitute. Yes. And she is the only person in that whole city of Jericho who has a heart that's being prepared by the Lord. And these two spies happen to end up in her house. They help her. She helps them. And the result of that is she becomes a part of the lineage of Jesus Christ. And the simple lesson to me is we've just got to help one another. There are people that God is going to bring into our paths that we can encourage, that we can help, and part of our journey through the Jordan River and onto the next stage of life is seeing who we can help,

who we can encourage, and it may be the most unlikely of people. Well, I've literally been reading and writing about that scene with Rehab. It's very important. When we come back, we continue the conversation with Robert Morgan. The new book is The Jordan River Rules 10 God-Given Strategies for Moving Forward. Folks, I'm talking to Robert Morgan, who has a book out, not to be confused with the huge bestseller, The Red Sea Rules, which has a red cover, but the Jordan River rules, the new book. And you were just talking about Rahab, the prostitute, how when they go into her house, it's an amazing thing that sometimes God does stuff so dramatic.

He does it so dramatic to underscore the point. Obviously, he doesn't approve of prostitution. He doesn't approve of lying because Rehab lies to the... He's making a larger point. And one thing that I read, because I literally was doing research on this the other day, is that probably the reason these two... spies sent by Joshua into to do this. The reason they probably went to her house is because they knew they wouldn't be followed

there. In other words, it was a place where you could be secret. So it's kind of a, we don't know. But the idea is that she does the right thing. She acknowledges God as God, knows that God will destroy Jericho. and she is then included in the bloodline of David and Jesus. I mean, it's one of these levels of redemption that you think that's too much. I can't believe it.

And then there's the crimson cord. Yeah. They have a tie a crimson cord to the, and it's very much like the blood that was put on the doorposts of the Passover lamb in Exodus chapter 12. I think it's indicative of Christ. Yeah. It's the blood of Christ. It's that crimson cord through the Bible. And when you read the scripture, you know, Eric, all of these things fit together.

There is a cohesiveness to the story of scripture that makes it unlike any other book. And one other great verse in the book of Joshua is when we are told that the Lord will go with us, that if we sanctify ourselves today, we will do exploits tomorrow. And that's sort of the theme of these first chapters, that if we will live correctly today, God will use us in wonderful ways tomorrow. And this is the Jordan River Rules. The Jordan River Rules. It's a small book.

It's a short book. It's the kind of a book that I suppose you could use as a devotional. But this stuff, it's kind of funny because, you know, a lot of times if you've been going to church, you kind of think, oh, I've heard this, I've heard this. But why is it that we need to be reminded over and over and over? And my theory, I guess, is that apart from the fact that we're sinners who are kind of, constantly needing, refreshing in the truth. But I guess it's kind of God's way of speaking to us personally. Like you can say you know something, but when someone says it or you read it in a book, you realize God's speaking this to me now. And I think there are a lot of people out there who

are maybe they do feel stuck or they feel, I just don't know. Have I come to the end? Am I done? And Lord says, no, not if you're still here. every time I open the Bible I find something new. Even in passages that I've known very well, the Bible is a never-ending reservoir of refreshment and wisdom for us. And in these six chapters that begin, Joshua, there are so many lessons I could have written a whole series of books from them, but I've tried to distill it here to tell people how to go forward into the next stage of life. Robert J. Morgan, do you have a website where people can find you? It's Robert J.morgan.com. Hey, that's pretty simple.

Robertjimorgon.com. We don't have to spell Robert. We don't have to ask how to spell Morgan. Robert J.Morgan.com. The brand new book is The Jordan River Rules. Robert Morgan, we have to get you back to talk more about other things. But thank you for today. My pleasure.

Thank you.