The Eric Metaxas Show - Mary Carmen Englert

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

Mary Carmen Englert introduces her book "Seven Pathways | Ancient Practices for a Deeper Relationship with God". More at https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Pathways-Ancient-Practices-Relationship/dp/1637631588

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's LegacyPMinvestments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. It's the show featuring Go-Go-Go the chimp. Nothing like a chimp to liven up the radio show. Easy there. Go-go, go, go, go. No, go, go, go. Hey, Eric. I got to tell you, I'm excited. It's a big day. I say that a lot, except I'm always lying.

But today I'm telling the truth. Yeah. This is the first time that I'm really exciting. It's refreshing. It's not just showbiz. This is real. I'm excited. In two days from today, February 8th, our documentary letter to the American Church

will be available for everyone to see. I want people to go to letter to the Americanchurch.com today. and to sign up, you'll see, folks. There's a trailer there. If you go to letter the Americanchurch.com, everything is there. The most exciting thing to me is that last night I heard we have 70 churches already signed up for a free screening. Yesterday on this program, I read the names of 38 or 39 or 40 churches that were signed up yesterday morning. I read them from a basement in Virginia.

And today, I don't have the new, I don't have the list of the new ones, but I am 70 churches already signed up scheduled to go. Letter to the American Church.com. You can see the list of those that are, you know, already doing it. But this is going to be updated constantly. You can go there. Honestly, I'm hoping, and I am expected to be like 700 at some point. Oh, no, no, no. You know, the list is going to grow.

No, no, no, no, no. It ought to be in the thousands, but we have just started. Right. And this is exciting. But, I mean, look, by the way, let me say that we have two friends going to be on the program this morning. In hour one, our friend Mary Carmen Englert, have known her for many years here in New York City. She has a bookout. Kind of an amazing story. So stay tuned for that. In an hour, two, my friend Bruce Frogerty, he's talking about his Easter crosses. This is something he has done for many years. he's been on the show before.

I get so excited. Sometimes an idea is just brilliant. This is a brilliant idea to share your faith. So Bruce Fogarty is an hour two with the Easter crosses. Tomorrow, we have China. China Phillips, China. China Phillips, who, you know, she was in Wilson Phillips. You know, she's the daughter of, I can't think now.

You know, the Mamas and the Pappas, the whole, you know, she's like, you know, music. royalty royalty and she is a very serious Christian and she's going to be on this program so she she's married to a Baldwin so she's married to a Baldwin which is crazy because I've met I've met all the Baldwin brothers no I've met three of the four Baldwin brothers and she's married to I believe just one of them biblically that's that's the rule you can just be married to so three of the four probably Alec probably Stephen and then Billy and then it's Billy you have not met the elusive Bert Baldwin yeah I don't know I don't know Herbert I have no idea I don't know. I believe it's Bucking. But anyway, China, China, it's, you know that I was in the White House with Trump. And he was giving some of us a little tour. This is like, how many years ago, seven years ago? He's doing his little tour. And he says, you see this phone here? He goes, you want to make a call to China? He actually said that. I was right there. He actually said that. He was right there. He actually said that's right there. He said, you want to make a call to China.

Secure line. Anyway, okay, so a couple of things before we go to our guest. Yes. A couple things. Some of you know there was a contriteau, a brouhaha. Because right here at this desk, I interviewed Benjamin Thomas about his book, Revelation, Riddle, or whatever. And in the middle of it, he doesn't believe in pre-trib rapture theology. Now, anybody who doesn't understand what that is, good for you, because who cares? It's like it gets, some people get in these weeds, right? I don't have a particular end-time eschatology. I'm not against the idea of pre-trip rapture. Definitely not against it, right? Because half of my friends have that theology. So to me, it might be right, but I haven't like taken a stand. But on the program with Benjamin Thomas,

it seemed like I was taking a stand against pre-trip rapture theology, which actually I wasn't. And I have to explain this. Well, so, Eric, you are a skip-ahead person. So I understood it because I'm your friend and I know, like, where your brain went. But if you were listening to the words that came out of your mouth, you would, and you were a pre-trib person, you would be offended by what you said. I finally listened to it the other day, and I was like, oh, no, that's what I said. So you're a skip-ahead person.

What you were saying in your brain is you're skipping ahead to the, unfortunately. To the possible downside of people with that theology. And that is. And so what I was saying was that there are some people, this is kind of funny, like you have to just be so careful what you say. I know, right, that all of the pastors who are my friends who have this theology are not guilty of saying, oh, what, Jesus is going to come there for we don't have to do anything. I know that they're not. And in fact, some of the pastors like Jack Hibbs and Gary Hamrick, these guys are the model of step up. up and doing what you're supposed to do.

They're the model of it. Jack's going to be on the show in a couple weeks. But I was saying that there are some people where there's a danger where you could basically say, listen, the Lord's coming back soon. He's going to rapture us out of here. And therefore, we don't need to do anything. Yeah, let's go to Taco Bell. And so I said that like an idiot without context.

And a lot of pastors got ticked at me. And I'm such a nice guy. Why would they do that? But seriously, it's so funny. because I didn't know. This is a classic case of where you have no idea, like, you know, you're saying something without thinking, not realizing you can offend some people. So I want to apologize to the folks that I offended because I did, I finally watched it and I said, yeah, you know what? If I didn't know me and I heard that, I would be like, what? So yes, I don't mean to say

that anybody who has pre-trition, this is really interneissine theological stuff, but that if you have that theology that you will be guilty of apprehending it in a way that is going to allow you to be passive? That's not, I don't believe that. I just believe that there are some who do that. But I just thought, let me just say that again, because I know that there's some folks at there who didn't, I put something on Twitter and I mentioned on the show, and they probably haven't heard it about it yet, and they still think that I'm taking a stand against pre-trib rapture eschatology, and I'm not. I want to be very, very, very clear. I am so. Certainly not. So the phrase pit of hell was in reference to sitting on your hands. Not doing anything. Using something as an excuse to not do anything. But that's the same thing about Romans 13, right? That's the scripture. People use Romans 13 to say, oh, therefore, I don't need to push back against the government. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So anyway. Remind me. What's Romans 13 to make it? Oh, I don't know. Romans 13 is, you know, we're supposed to obey the governing authorities. And that's what, you know, Luther spoke about that. And you can.

over-emphasize certain things and it can push people into a bad reaction in a sense and say that that's like that's all the scripture has to say about so therefore I'm not supposed to push back against the government but that doesn't mean Romans 13 is not biblical it's in the bill it's in the Bible so you have to be very careful but okay I want to get back to the fun stuff last night I got home from Virginia and since my mom was is with us we watched I've never watched it before. But I've talked about we're doing Socrates in the city plus, right? So Socrates plus, you have to sign up.

And by the way, folks, you've got to sign up because it's really cheap. And there is a raft of awesome stuff. I was looking at it yesterday. But yesterday, for the first time, on our big TV, I watched the first episode of a gentleman's guide, and it's a gentleman's guide to New York. And the director did such an amazing... It just looks so beautiful.

Yeah, he's very talented. And it's fun. I read a poem. I don't want to spoil it, but I watched the whole thing yesterday with my mom and my daughter, and it was just, I said, I can't believe what they have done. This is a beautiful thing. And again, this is one of the things that's at Socrates Plus. But go to Socrateson CityPlus.com. And you've got to go there because if you're not a member, you're not going to be able to see.

We're live streaming everything. February 8th. This week I'm flying to Seattle. We're live streaming our event with John. West. That's this Thursday night. We're live streaming it. You can watch it live with all the flubs and fluffs. What's he talking about? Remind me. It's C.S. Lewis. And it's C.S. Lewis. And it's a whole, I don't want to get into it, but it's C.S. Lewis. It's awesome. So you got to sign up for Sockdes and City Plus.com. We're live streaming stuff the next day. We're live streaming James O'Keefe,

February 29th. So, like, there's a lot of stuff coming up and you, I don't want you to miss it. So go to Socratesandcityplus.com and sign up. And do not forget, folks, Letter to the American Church, by the way, you can buy the book, you can buy a study guide, but the film drops this week. Letter to the American Church.com. Check it out. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one. Glenn and the team have been great supporters of this show, which is why I am proud to partner with them. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage, giving you the ability to access all three major networks, which means,

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Check it out. Hey there, folks. Welcome back. What a joy to sit here with an old friend, Mary Carmen Englert, and then to realize she's not just a friend anymore. She's an author of a book called Seven Pathways. Mary Carmen, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Eric.

I'm always shocked when friends of mine suddenly write books. It's like, hey, how did this happen? How did this happen? I'm shocked to be here as well. So where do we start? Do we start with your story or do we start with the book? You know, they're kind of intertwined together so we could start with both. Okay. So, yeah. So seven pathways. So how did I even get on this? You know, some people ask them, why seven? Well, this actually got started many years ago, and I love how the Lord uses something you start many years ago and then he brings you back. So through a very long and arduous health journey and struggling with unexplained pain, the Lord led me back to these seven practices. And I had started it about 15 years prior, just seeing the need for these spiritual pathways in my own life. Okay, so these are sort of like ancient Christian.

practices that, so obviously biblical, but in many ways, I mean, I just noticed this, that modern Christians often dispense with that, like we kind of do our own thing. Absolutely. And people have been practicing their faith for 2,000 years. Yeah, we can learn from some of these people. We can learn from Christians in the past of how they live out their faith and how they practice their, how they live at their faith in terms of, you know, daily reading or meditation or prayer, whatever it is.

So, yeah, how did you discover the seven pathways? So really, what I could do really well, and when you struggle with a lot of pain and you're exhausted all the time, I could do silence really well, and I could do prayer really well. And so how I started was with Thanksgiving, and people often say, why did you start with Thanksgiving? And I say, well, you know, when you wake up in the morning, we remind it immediately of the crowd of stress. There's all the things that are not happening in your life. And so Thanksgiving is the one way that you can realign your thoughts with God and who he is and remember his greatness. And so. And that's one of the seven.

Okay. So it's called seven pathways, ancient practices for a deeper relationship with God. So one of them is simply giving thanks. And so you would do that every morning. Yes. In the midst of pain. Oh, absolutely. And I still do.

It's really a game changer. Our culture becomes, we've become very entitled. We are forgetting our rich heritage. Christians should be the most thankful people. We've received the greatest gift. I mean, I think we're not surprised. We're often now, it becomes kind of the norm. Oh, normalized.

Oh, yeah, Jesus died for me. No, that's the ultimate gift. No one dies for anyone. Well, isn't it amazing how, you know, people say, I mean, I talk about this a lot, actually. Like, people say that they're Christians. And so I wrote my book a letter to the American Church for Christians specifically say, okay, you say you're a Christian.

If you are, then a number of things will follow. In other words, if you actually, people say, well, I have faith, saving faith. It's like you do. Okay. If you do, then you will live your life as though you actually believe Jesus died for you who didn't deserve it. And gratitude, Thanksgiving has to flow out of that. But the point of your book and the point of, you know, we have to remind ourselves over and over and over.

It doesn't come naturally. We have to do it because if you don't do it. So for you, that was the first thing, practicing Thanksgiving. Yes. And that's what Seven Pathways does. It helps people activate their faith. Often people say, yeah, I have faith, but they're still a little lost. or they're just feeling like, hey, I don't know what I want to read, or sometimes they just kind of become a little disinterested.

Yeah. And in Jesus, it becomes a little, it's like, yeah, I know that. But this is seven pathways and through these practices, including the time in the Bible as well in prayer, which is essential. Obviously, the Bible is the primary way, which we know God and who he is, his kids. character, his plan for the world and his redemptive story of how he wants to shape us into followers of Jesus and also reminding us that we are sons and daughters of the king. I think a lot of people forget that, like, you actually have Heavenly Father, then through knowing him, you can have those attributes that God works into your real world and

life. And that's what through practicing these seven rhythms, which I call them, are just helping give people a cadence to how they spend time with God again, that structure that these ancient theologians and ancient practitioners of the faith throughout the centuries have given us. I'm just kind of giving you something that's been around a long time. It's been there, and we tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's like, well, I don't want to be like Martin Luther as a monk doing this and this and this and this.

It's like, no, no, no. You don't want to do it unto destruction. You don't want to try to save yourself by doing it. On the other hand, if you believe you do want to do these things. And so the seven that you list is Thanksgiving, silence, confession, song, prayer, Bible study, and scripture meditation. Now, before we get into all those, what is your health journey? I mean, because you were already into all this stuff and thinking about this stuff. But while you're thinking about these seven pathways and starting to practice them,

you had this, like, really health crisis. I mean, suddenly you start feeling pain. How long ago was this and what happened? It started in 2018. And so it was unexplained head and neck pain. Lots of misdiagnosis, 15 plus doctors. What? Yeah, lots.

And it turns out I had a rare cancerous tumor. It's called a cynic cell cancer. It was in my right parada, which is one of the salivary glands. and very hard to detect. The cells mimic traditional cells, meaning on CTs, it does not show all of it. MRI showed more of it even then when you get in. It was much larger. So it was causing pain.

It was cutting off movement to my mouth, my eyes, and my ears. And it was slight. It was ever so slight. I noticed that I was having problems with my mouth. But then again, people often say, oh, you're aging or, oh, you have migraines. You know, there is numerous things that went on. And none of those were the right diagnosis. And so thankfully, after a very long journey, almost five and a half years, last year, in March of 20, 23 is when I had the tumor removed.

It was discovered just a little early in December 22, what I had. And it almost been five years at this point, which is really hard to have so much. pain and just really have your life taken from you. And so in many ways, God put my life on hold and put me in a mode of listening. I will say it was, even though it was the hardest time in my life in many respects dealing with not only physical pain, but just enduring that emotionally, but also having to push through. And I was writing this during this time. And people were like, are you going to go, are you going to put it aside? I was like, no, I'm actually not. I'm going to keep working on it.

but I'm going to work on it slowly, and that's what God did. And that's what I want to encourage people. When you're in a really hard place, you can take small steps. And that's what I did. God gave me really small steps to do each day. So when I was writing this for just one example, he said, okay, I want you to listen to each chapter of John. And then I want you to go back and just voice text some questions. Then the next time I want you to go back, and I want you to think of some questions for confession.

And just like, he took me through all the path. raised very in a very timely manner, but it was something that I could do. And through that time, then I had some others, folks that jump in and help me along the way. And so what I did, I actually wrote two books in this time while I had cancer. So I wrote this ancient practice is for a deeper relationship with God. And then the workbook version, which is also on the website at 7 Pathways.com, which is taking you through all these seven pathways through the study of gospel of John, which is a chapter by chapter study or half of a chapter. Some of the chapters are very, very long. So it's better to break them up. So that's one reason. It's just, I want

to encourage people, hey, you know, God does, God says we are going to experience suffering as Christians. Like that is not, it's not something strange is going to happen to us. But by, that by suffering is by means which we know him, but also by the means which we are more transformed. and that we can actually have something to say that people will listen to as well. Isn't that amazing? I know. There's so many people to be like, I don't want to receive that. I just want a victory and health.

It's like, well, yes, of course you do. But if the Lord allows you to experience these things, you can experience them unto him with him and let him use them for his purposes in your life. And you know, you went to a Dallas theological seminary. I did. And that's pretty recent, right? Well, it has been now 20 years. Okay, I didn't realize that.

So I'm saying that you didn't just kind of, you know, you've been a student of the scriptures, and this has been something that's been in your life for a long time. And I started this 15 years. I literally started working on this in 2005. So it was very interesting how God circled me back to something. And I taught a couple seminars at Redeemer when I lived in New York on these practices. they were only four at that point. And then through this journey, I live them.

Well, I love this. Folks, I'm talking to Mary Carmen Englert. The book is Seven Pathways. There are actually two books. You can go to Seven Pathways.com, seven spelled out, seven pathways.com. We'll be right back. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question, well, the owners of

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Go to Nutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Neutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-D-I-X.com. Nutrametics.com use the code Eric for 15% off. Welcome back. I'm talking to the author of Seven Pathways. Mary Kerman Englert, you know, it just seems like God is bringing us back in a way. I mean, these are ancient pathways. But the point is, how do we live out our faith?

And I talk about this in a different way when I'm talking about Letter to the American Church. But people kind of act like, okay, I believe some stuff. Check, check, check, check. I believe it, and that's it. And so I guess, okay, I'll go to church on Sunday or whatever. But it's supposed to inform our every thought, pray without ceasing, live your life with Thanksgiving. How do we do that? And it seems that people are, as far as I can tell, increasingly hungry for the how.

How do I do it? And in the ancient church or in previous centuries, there was a lot of focus on that. Anybody who's a serious Orthodox Christian or a serious Catholic, they, they have access to a lot of this, but kind of in the evangelical church, we often, we've kind of skipped way past that into whatever, I don't know, but these things are important, and they're a gift from God to us. Like, here's how you do it. Here's some ways. And it seems to me that that's exactly what your book is. It gives people tools because I wake up in the morning, okay, Lord, how do I do it? What do I do today? It gives you a framework, and it gives you something

to build upon. So let's go through these seven things. First of all, how do you determine that there are seven? Does that come from some ancient source, or did you just end up coming? I just ended up coming to seven, to be honest with you. And these are just seven historical practices. And it's a great number for our faith as well. So that's all landed on it.

And so, do you, in these books, do you recommend that somebody do, do, you do, that somebody do a certain thing every day? Or how does it, how does it shape up if somebody looks into it? So you start with Thanksgiving. And so the rhythm of it, I'll just go through it quickly. I can circle back. Thanksgiving, silence, confession, song, prayer, scripture. I think I just did it wrong.

Did you do it? No, I think I have Thanksgiving. Silence. Song. Confession. Confession. Song. Prayer.

Bible study and scripture meditation. Got it. My head got ahead of me. So you, now, do you do one of these a day or several of these a day? No, no. Actually, I do all seven of them. Yeah. So I broke it up in a time frame that you can do in about 35 to 40 minutes.

Yeah. Though if you're a really quick student, you could do it in 30 perhaps. And then other times when I was on the journey, just like when you're really hungry, you eat a lot, right? If you haven't had food in hours or you wake up in the morning and you're extremely thirsty. When you're going through something really difficult, and some of you all, there where you're going through something you might want to spend longer than just three minutes on one i mean would spend 20 30 minutes on prayer and when i say prayer i don't mean just praying for yourself

i mean like praying for other people i have this whole like pray and again i'm not trying to be rigid it's it's just a prayer plan hey how can i get in praying for people in my life whether it be people i know well my family or friends or the community um at large and then it's also praying praying God's word. You know, these are words that he's given us, such as the Psalms, which is the prayer book of of the faith. And those are also can be, they were sung historically as well. That's a great structure, laments especially, a lot of people think laments.

Oh, it sounds so awful. Yeah. Sounds like a, dirt like a bad word. Yeah, lamentations. That's scriptural. Yeah, that's it. That's it. But it's an awesome structure.

of how you can present, like, those really difficult times of the Lord. And David spent, what, over a third of Psalms in laments. So I would say that something we might want to park on a little bit more in our own journey. And we live that. It's just like we're disconnected from the... What exactly is a lamentation? In other words, when people are, you know, definitely, it's not a word that you hear. Yeah.

So what are people... So, yeah, what is the biblical idea behind lamentation? Yeah, it's... The biblical idea is just presenting your longings, your sufferings to the Lord. And it's a, excuse me, it's a confession of those thoughts in addressing God, presenting those thoughts, but then also you are firm and trust in who God is. And then you praise them at the end of it. So it's about a six-step, seven-step structure of the lament in the book.

But that's a little summary of it. of it. It's just, it's, and that's what David often did. If you look in the Psalms through the limits, which makes up about 42 of them in Psalms, that he has this structure. And that's often when we pray, we then forget to remind ourselves, okay, let's affirm. After I've just said all these things that I'm struggling with or a friend, my family members are struggling with, then let me affirm who God is. And let me affirm that I'm going to trust him and praise him. Yeah. And that reframes how you think about your suffering and your pain. And it brings God into the story because the whole purpose of prayer is speaking, listening to God.

Well, we want to bring him into the story. It's not just us talking to someone. It's us having a conversation with something. So through that, the lament structure, we can then hear from God. And that's what I love. And it's not as, honestly, I'd love to do more research in this too. I'm still learning about limits, not an expert at all in suffering and pain. and then expressing that to God.

But it's something we live daily. And I think we're really missing that in our spiritual lives. I know I am. And one of the things here you mentioned is silence. And obviously that's so that we can hear from God. Yes, absolutely. And for some people, that's easy. For some people, it's not so easy.

I don't find it very easy. My head is crowded with noise. But getting silent to hear from God. When we come back, I want to ask you more about that. Folks, I'm talking to Mary, Carmen Englert. The book, Seven Pathways, two books. Seven Pathways.com is the website. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back. I'm talking to Mary Carmen Engler about her journey with God and about the book that came out of it called Seven. pathways. We were just talking about silence, so these different things. Silence, obviously, we know that we're not just supposed to chatter at God. We're supposed to listen. And people often say that, and I think that it can be frustrating because you think, listen, well, of course, if God wants to talk, I want to hear, but I don't hear anything. You know, how do you cultivate that? Yeah. So I would say cultivating listening skills can be difficult. First of all, you need to quiet.

your surroundings is helpful, right? It's hard to hear if there's a lot of noise around you. And then quiet yourself. And that can be a difficult factor as well. How to quiet yourself and obviously closing your eyes, but also quieting yourself before the Lord means coming before him and quieting your mind can be also helped by pulling out your Bible and reading God's word. that'll often quiet in your mind because then it puts his thoughts in your mind versus those noisy stressors. That's interesting. That's one of the, so the quiet, so in the silence, you can actually be, I would think it's like cheating, but no, it sounds like a good idea. You can be reading silently and listening as you're reading.

Then you have confession. You know, again, these are as ancient as it gets in the Christian faith, but oftentimes people don't practice these things. And the Lord wants us to for us, for us, because he loves us. He wants us to search our souls and to put these things before them so we can be cleansed. Yes, absolutely. And that's what confession does. It brings cleansing, but it also brings, after cleansing comes freedom. And Christ wants to bring freedom.

And what it additionally does is that it releases his power to work in and through us as sin is continued. And this is a process. You know, confession is a daily thing. It's something we are always going to be a part. And to become comfortable, a little comfortable with the difficult conversations or the old tapes. You know, I guess, somebody called it, I called it old tapes that God sometimes brings up when you're, bringing confession or we repeat the same tapes. They're like, okay, Lord, I'm struggling that that's the same thing.

So, you know, he can rewrite those tapes. He can create new ones. For those of who you know what tapes are, some of you are like, I have no idea what a cassette. Yeah, what's a tape? It's a cassette tape. It's not an MP3. What is that? But it is interesting because you're right.

We do have these thoughts in our heads, and some of it is not the voice of God. Some of it is some condemnation that we picked up either from our parents or from ourselves or whatever it is. And the whole idea is God is exhorting us to hear what he has to say about us, not what others have to say or what the devil has to say or what, you know, some voice from the past. But that is, that's a discipline. Or by following these disciplines, we can help God's voice come to the fore in terms of what he thinks of us, which is exactly what is true as opposed to something else. And that's what through, even what I went through, it was like all those other voices in my life quelled more when you go through pain and God removes you out of a lot of things.

And I quit looking at social media a lot and really started hearing his voice more. It was amazing how tuning out the noise, so to speak, I was able to hear that voice through even music in the mornings. Like God will wake. I would literally wake up in the morning with songs in my head in the mornings. It was just crazy thing. And see vision. I mean, God was speaking to me, visions through the word all over. It just notes that people send me from prayer rooms, prayer teams. So when you calm the noise in your life, you open yourself up to the most beautiful voice, which is the Lord's and his word and that relationship that really can transform.

and give you the best life that he wants for you and then also help you finish well. And that's what is Christians, a lot of people have just, and that's where I think these practices will really help people. A lot of people are just kind of like, I'm going to pull over and park here.

Or I'm going to back up here, and I think I just, I don't know, it's not that bad, you know what I'm doing. Instead, God's like, no, this is going to help you move forward. I mean, we are in a spiritual battle, and that's what prayer also in the Bible is used. He's left us.

for us because prayer is listening and speaking to God as well, but it's also a spiritual battle. And we have to remember that. That's what we're in in this world. And so this will help you with that as well. And you have to see God's hand in this illness that you've had, the idea that God used that on some level to get you to, you know, it gives you a lot of credibility with people that are listening right now because you've been through this, you have used this while you've been suffering. This is not just theory. No, and I'm still, I mean, I don't have all the mobility of my mouth, but I mean, hopefully it will come back.

And people say, or do you still have pain? I'm like, yeah, I still have pain. And that's just a part of, you know, Christian life, suffering and pain. We all have it to some degree. And yeah, I did it through that. And that's what I encourage people. When you're going through a hard time, press in to listen to see what God might be saying during that time. And you can experience, and that's what he says. You can experience his presence in no other way. And then he transforms people through that in ways that he can't throw, whatever the suffering does is Jesus suffered.

Well, I mean, look, it's part of the warp and woof of human existence. It's kind of like people understand that with exercise, right? If I want to grow, I have to exercise, which involves like, you know, tearing up the muscle so that it can grow back stronger. And it's hard. But it's a blessing. To see it through God's eyes. It is a blessing to go through this kind of thing. And we've lost that because I think, again, sometimes people's theology gets them off to where they kind of act like, no, no, no, no, no, suffering is of the devil. It's like, no, no, no, God can use difficulty. I mean, just call it difficulty trials. The Lord can use it. It doesn't mean that we want them, but it means

that we want whatever God has. And you allowed the Lord to use this in your life. And it's just, it's a beautiful story, Mary Carmen. I'm sorry we don't have more time, but I'm just excited that you have done this. Seven Pathways is the name of the book. Again, two books. And the website is seven. You've got to spell it out.

Seven Pathways.com. 7 Pathways.com. I'm very excited about this. Mary Carmen, congratulations. Thanks for being my guest. Thank you so much for having me, Eric. Folks, welcome back. I'm really thrilled to be talking to the two brilliant women who have turned my book letter to the American church into a documentary film. They didn't just turn it into a documentary film. It was their idea to turn my book letter to the American Church into a documentary film, which is going to be basically everywhere, although we want to. your help in making sure that it's everywhere because the message couldn't be more urgent. But Rachel Tash and Simone Alex, welcome to the program. Thank you.

Who's in the film? I mean, I know the answer, but let me ask you, who's in the film? You both interviewed all kinds of people. Obviously, I'm the main narrator. But whom can we look forward to seeing interviewed? Well, we've got Charlie Kirk as one of the leading voices, Dr. James. Lenzie. We have a few pastors, Pastor Rob McCoy from Godspeak, Calvary Chapel, Pastor David Englehart from King's Church in New York City. We've- John Amichuku.

John Amichukwu. That's my favorite word of the month. Yeah. Amunchukwu. John Amunchuku is such a hero. He is such a hero. And yes, he is prominently featured in the film, right? Yes. And Victor and Eileen Marks. That was really important for us because they're on the cutting lines of taking action and no holds bar going into, you know, really scary places and rescuing children and really being the gospel in action. And, yeah, Seth Gruber. Seth Gruber, who really covers the whole abortion issue from a really fresh perspective. I think he's the foremost leading voice for millennials and Gen Z on abortion right now. So it was important to have him speak to that.

It's a great message. The film is very timely, very now going into a very contentious 2024 year, you know, the politics, everything that's going to be happening. The film touches on all of this, taking you through 1930s Germany all the way through modern day. People are going to learn. They're going to see everything laid out what's been happening in this country in our school systems, in corporations, the tactics that were used then and that are still being used now. People are going to be blown away by what they're going to see. And it's a wake-up call to the church to have them get engaged, start talking, taking your kids out of public schools, run for office. all of it just to get involved.

I really have to say that, again, you know, it's one thing to write a book. It's another thing to make a film. And what you all did, you know, not only did you translate my message into a film, you did way more than that. You made it into a film which goes way beyond the book. I mean, there's tons of stuff in the film that is not in my book.

And these are extraordinary voices. all of them that you mentioned, Charlie Kirk, John Amichuku, David Englehart, Eileen Marks, Victor Marks, Pastor Rob McCoy, James Lindsay. Everyone brings a different piece of the puzzle. And I have to say that it's very compelling. And, you know, since I wrote the book, I would think I wouldn't be that compelled by watching it because I already know this stuff. No, there's tons of stuff in the film that's not in the book that, you know,

you can say things and go places that I wasn't able to in the book. Unfortunately, the message is very important. So I just want to tell people, ladies and gentlemen, this is very important. We've made this as a tool for you to get the word out. We're in just as crucial a moment in American history as can be. It is God's will that the church stand up and take action and avert the horror of what happened in the German church. That's really, this is a huge warning. And every single person listening has a role to play. And the first thing you can do is go to letter to the American

church.com and see where you can see the film. And please tell your friends about it, letter to the American church. Rachel, Tash and Simone Alex, thank you so much for your work on the film and for being my guest today. Thank you. Thanks, Eric.