The Eric Metaxas Show - Matt Locket and Will Ford (Encore)

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

Show. Just yesterday, I caught a wild bird with my bare hands, and then I set it free, because that's just who I am. When you love something, you set it free. But first, you must catch it with your bare hands. That's the rule. And now, my friend Eric Mataxis, who is a lot like that caught bird. Fly, little Eric, fly. Be free and fly. Fly to your microphone in the mountains. He ya-hawk! Hi-h! Hey-haw! Hey-h! Hey, there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Have I got a show for you? You should be thanking me in advance because this is, you won't have enough time to thank me later. It's that wonderful. I have as my guests, two people, I'm going to let them tell their story because that's why we're here.

Matt Lockett is in the Washington, D.C. area on Capitol Hill. Will Ford is in the Dallas area. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. Thank you so much. Thank you, Eric. Good to be with you today. All right. Now, I don't want to explain anything. I want you guys to do the explaining. So first of all, describe to me, Wolf Ford, you know, if somebody needs to describe you, apart from the story that we're going to share with you and Matt, who are you and what do you do? Who am I? I'm a professor at Christ for the Nations Institute. And for the past 20 years, been traveling around the country.

teaching on prayer, unity and revival, and continue for a cultural life. That's pretty good right there. And Matt, how do you describe yourself? Well, I'll see if I can top him. I am in Washington, D.C. on Capitol Hill. And I actually direct a prayer ministry here on Capitol Hill that's focused on government. And real laser-focused praying for the ending of abortion in particular. but broader than that, but we're right here in D.C.

Been here for 15 years. Okay. Now, a lot of people will be listening to this, you know, maybe as a podcast or on the radio. So I want to be clear that Matt, you're white and you're wearing a beard in glasses. And in Will, you're black. You're wearing a beard and no glasses, okay? Just so we're clear on who you are and what you look like. But the color of your skin is at the center of one of the most amazing stories that I've heard in quite a while.

And so I want you both to tell the story. So how did you meet? Well, you know, we met at a prayer meeting, but really to understand how we met after talk about this family heirloom in my family, it's this 200-year-old kettle pot that was used by the slaves of my family. They used it for cooking, they use it for washing clothes. But Eric, the reason why it's passed down is because they secretly used it for prayer. They owned by a slave master who would be it for any reason and praying was one of them. But in spite of the threats and because of their love for Jesus, they decided to pray anyway.

So they were going to a barn late in night to make sure to prayer me one scene. But to make sure it wasn't heard, they used this cast iron kettle pot to muffle their voices. Okay, now what, now I've seen this, and I got to just explain to my audience how amazing this is, because it didn't make any sense to me. I've never seen anything like this, that this is a large pot, and somehow they figured out, and I, this is why I was like, where did they get this idea? that if they put it on the ground and they they prop it up with some rocks and that they pray kneeling down sort of into the to the opening of this overturned pot that somehow their voices don't escape and the master who hated them praying would not hear them. But it's just a crazy, amazing story.

And it's even more crazy that you have the pot. I couldn't believe it when I thought. heard that. Yeah, so the way the story is told is this old teenage, young teenage girls, she decided to keep this pot and this story in our family. Why does she do that? She's probably thinking about all those who are dead and gone. She's probably thinking about all those who are too old to enjoy the freedom she's about to embrace. So she keeps this pot and this story in our family, and she passed the pot and the story down to Harriet Lockett, who passed it on to Noah Lockett, who passed it on to William Ford Senior, then William Ford Jr., who's a lot of the

then gave it to me William 4th or 3rd. So I've been taking around the country. Yeah. No, but I just want to say like the idea. Yeah. When we talk about, you know, heirlooms and having history and whatever, not a lot of people have that.

And when we're talking about blacks in America who come out of slavery, I have never heard ever, ever, that someone had something passed down from slavery times. I mean, you've got to appreciate how rare this is. I do. And I've taken it to be a reminder of those prayer bowls in heaven. Revelation 5 and 8.

So they're bowls in heaven full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. So they use this as an acoustic means to keep their prayers from being heard. But literally, there's a prayer bowl over every family, I believe. There's a prayer bowl over every city. There's a prayer bowl over our nation. God's looking for a new generation to resource the prayer bowl. once again, because it wasn't just black Christian slaves praying back then. They're also white Christian abolitionists who were praying as well. And if any person was a slave was a Christian, the person was their brother.

And it was the prayers of that godly remnant that prayed into being the first and the second great awakening. Had it not been for those revival, slavery wouldn't have ended. One of the reasons, of course, I wanted to have both of you on is because you ministered together in the love of Jesus and the name of Jesus. and the power of the Holy Spirit. And, of course, we're living in a time of racial division in this country. Some of that is legitimate.

Some of that is stoked up by people who have no business doing that. And I think that we have to confront it head on. And that's why when I heard your story, I said, I've never heard a story like your story. So you have been ministering Will for quite a while using this pot as a prop. I mean, to show people that this is real, that this goes back to slavery times. In your own family, let me ask you real quick, when did you become a Christian? How did you become a Christian? How did you become a Christian? Or were you raised that way?

I was raised that way. I remember nine years old, giving my life to Jesus, reading a little chick-trick one day. But grew up in the black church and had a godly mother, godly father. who was a who raised him in a Christian way. But our story goes to another level

when I had a dream about Dr. King and God began to convict me about my unforgiveness issues with the white community. So I shared it

with a friend of me. Oh, that was 2003, 2004. Okay, so you have a dream about Dr. King. Yep. In that dream, he began to

convict me about my own unforgiveness issues and show me I had all my white gap this white baggage I need to get rid of so I shared that dream with a friend of mine and he said I'm having a prayer at the Lincoln Memorial it'll be January 17 2005 MLK Day share your dream bring your kettle tell your story

and that's where I meet this guy okay so what kind of a gathering was this and who had said this up. This is, what, 2003, 2004? January. 2005, January 17th. 2005, January 17th, you had this dream. And what kind of a gathering was this that you will forward a black man and you, Matt Lockett, a white man would both be at this gathering? What kind of a gathering was it? Well, it was a prayer meeting. And, you know, what's interesting about this is that it was on Martin Luther King Day, but

Will was there because he'd had a dream. And I was there because I had also had a dream. Now, Will and I didn't know each other before this. And I had a dream where God spoke to me about what he wanted to do in America through day and night prayer. And through, you know, kind of a roundabout way, he led me to this prayer meeting. I came across the country, took time off work, you know,

spend your hard-earned money to show up at a prayer meeting at the Lincoln Memorial on Martin Luther King Day. And so that was the first place that Will and I came together, didn't know each other, but we met on the spot where Dr. King gave the I Have a Dream speech. So you have two guys that separately have dreams that lead us there. Hold on a second. This is too exciting. We're going to go to break.

We'll be right back to the rest of the story. Hey, folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Matt Lockett and Will Ford. Will is in Dallas. and Matt is in the D.C. area. Will, you are black, Matt, you are white. And you're telling a story that, again, when I heard this story, I said, you have to come on this program. The world, America, needs to hear your story.

So you were just telling how the two of you met. Will, you had a literal dream where you were talking to Dr. King. I want to hear about that in just a minute. But Matt, you were just telling us that you had a dream. Now, you don't mean an actual dream. You mean a calling from God. You don't mean like you fell asleep and you had a dream in the way that Will did. No, we both had dreams while we were asleep that led us to that prayer meeting.

So this was from somewhere else. This was not anything that I dreamed up, that I thought up. It was literally a dream. When did you have your dream roughly? Well, it was the previous year. See, it was exactly one year to the day since my father passed away unexpectedly. And I went through a really painful year. And one of the things that was painful for me was that it became really important for me to try to figure out where my family had come from. I wanted to know our family history. But in my family, my dad was one of 16 siblings, but no one in our family knew our family history. It had been lost. And so I went through a really painful year. And it was during that time. that I had this dream that led me to the prayer meeting. So I show up at the Lincoln Memorial here in Washington, D.C. on Martin Luther King Day, 2005, and that's where I met Will, who had also been led there by a dream. And he had the kettle with him, and he told the story of the kettle

about this rich family history and legacy of prayer for America and prayer against injustice. And I was really provoked by that because here I didn't know my family history and you know here was a black man who I just got to interrupt you I have to interrupt you to tell my audience folks I don't want to give it away but I want to promise you do not go away because the way this comes together is a flat out miracle you're going to hear you're hearing it but you haven't heard it yet you haven't heard the punchline yet. This is insane. This is God who is a God of miracles and he's a God who cares obviously about racial reconciliation or he would have not have done what you're going to hear about. So, okay, Matt, so you go there because of a literal dream you had. And I find it fascinating that

the dream is related to wanting to know your family history. You're a white guy in America and you don't know your history. So keep going. That's right. Yeah, so I came together with Will there on the steps of the Lincoln, and I heard the story of the kettle, and I was really provoked by it, but then Will told this little detail in the story that that kettle had been handed down to Harriet Lockett, and Lockett is my last name. And so it came down through a Lockett family, and then ultimately to Will Ford the third. And, you know, it's kind of like a Moses moment where you hear your name called, and you've got to take your shoes off, so to speak. And I went up and I talked with Will after the prayer time there. And we started comparing notes. And, you know, his lockets spelled their name differently. They dropped one of the, or, you know, they'd spelled it with only one team. My lockets spelled it with two.

His lockets were down in Louisiana. Mine were in Kentucky. And so we just thought it was this amazing coincidence that what resulted from that chance encounter was that God called me out of the marketplace. I had a wonderful career in marketing, advertising. and God called me out of that. I became a full-time missionary in Washington, D.C. And Will and I just dedicated our lives and our time together to praying for revival in America,

praying for racial healing in America, and particularly for a culture of life. And so Will and I just started running together, and it all seemed like it was because of a chance encounter, which ended up being not so much a coincidence. We haven't even scratched the surface because I know this story. So I'm just telling you people, listen carefully. Pay attention. Okay, so Will, you start ministering with your white brother, Matt Lockett, the two of you are ministering.

And you see it as an interesting coincidence that your families share the name Lockett. Obviously, there's a T on one and there's two T's on the other, so you don't make too much of it. At what point does this go to the next level? At what point do you, Matt Lockett, discover the house and the significance to the Civil War? Yeah, that's what happened for us. Matt found out about this house in his family where the last battle for the Civil War basically

happens in one of Matt's ancestors' front yard. Matt, you want to go ahead and share that? Yeah, you know, this is what's interesting is that Will and I started praying together. and we prayed together and did life together for almost a decade before we got to that next level, Eric. And so suddenly we discovered, we'd been praying at Appomattox Courthouse, which is the, that marks the end of the American Civil War, the ending of slavery. And I through that process found out that the last battle of the Civil War happened at a place called the Battle of Lockett's Farm, spelled with two T's. And again, I'm having another moment where I'm hearing my name called.

So I start studying that, and I find out about this Lockett Farmhouse. The last battle occurred there. But it was about that time that my older brother actually got breakthrough on our genealogy. And he contacted me and said, you know, I got us all the way back. But I want to hit pause for a second so people get all this stuff. Because this is insane. I want people to understand very specifically, like with journalistic detail, okay? Because if you don't believe in God, I want you to tell me what you make of this story.

So you're telling me that you guys are praying for 12 years together. And then suddenly now you get a breakthrough on where your family is from and there's a specific house. And you tell me that in the yard of that house was the last battle in the civil war. You guys are ministering as a black man and a white man for racial reconciliation. and you're telling me the last battle of the civil war to end slavery in America was fought in the yard of your ancestors' home, Matt Lockett. I mean, that's just like something somebody would make up. There's a historical marker there that reads,

Here Lee fought his last battle. I mean, okay, that's, I still, like, this is, there's several layers here, so let's keep going because we're not done. Yeah, well, take, you know, since we're just thinking about it for a moment, you know, it's interesting that Will has this artifact from the past that represents, you know, the pain of slavery, but also how people pressed through and endured during that time of challenge. And he has this rich history of ancestors who prayed for slavery to end. And then suddenly after 10 years of us praying together,

I find out that slavery, so to speak, slavery actually ended in my family's front yard. So now I have this artifact from the past. And Will and I thought, isn't this interesting? We both have these artifacts in our families. What are we supposed to do with that? Well, that's what my brother found out our genealogy. What an amazing coincidence. It's almost enough to get me to believe in God, but I'm not that crazy, right?

I wouldn't believe. It's an amazing, amazing coincidence. Now, just to go back to this prayer thing, the idea that black slaves are, praying against slavery. You don't hear about that very much, do you? You just don't hear about that. That they're praying to the God of the scriptures for deliverance and the master hates it when they pray. Very interesting. It is compelling. I've come through 3,500 slave narratives. I found 400 times with slaves had to have secret prayer meetings. And of those times, Eric, I found that about 200 times they use wash pots and barrels and kettles to muffle their voices as they prayed.

And it's a powerful thing. I talked to my friend David Barton about it, and we both believe that as they were transferred across the country and went to plantation to plantation, they keep the secret prayer meetings going. They were sing a secret cold song in the middle of the day called Steal Away to Jesus, and it would alert everybody in during their day that there would be a prayer meeting that night. Isn't that powerful? This is unbelievable. all of America needs to hear this story.

Please continue. This is just stunning. We're not done. Yeah, so let me jump in here. Go ahead, go ahead, man. Yeah, just to bring it back to that point about the genealogy, my brother got breakthrough on our genealogy, and he started telling me, you know, I got us all the way back to 1645. We came in as settlers through Virginia, and I started telling him the story about the Battle of Lockett's Farm. And he stopped me.

He says, you know, I know. I know the place that you're talking about. That was our family. So it wasn't just a name. It was actually my family. The last battle of the Civil War occurred in my family's front yard. Not just any lockets. It was my family.

And so now the plot was really beginning to thicken that these artifacts, they weren't just coincidences. It seemed like there was spiritual significance to it. I just wanted to make sure we understood that because this is the product. When people pray, things have to pray. things happen. You had a dream that pulls you into this whole thing and that eventually God leads you. If anybody doesn't think God leads you or God led you, both of you, they're not paying attention or they just hate logic because that's where logic leads in this story. There's no escaping it.

We're going to break. We'll be right back. Hey, folks. I'm talking to Wilf Ford and Matt Lockett. If you're just tuning in, man, I don't know. I don't know what to say. Guys, this story is just crazy. We serve a crazy, unbelievable God who sometimes does stuff so mind-blowing.

When I heard your story, I said, there are people who are just not going to believe this because we're still not done. We haven't hit the real punch. So, okay, so you're telling me, Matt, Lockett with two T's that you discover, yes, this is the house. This is my family. The last battle of the Civil War was fought in the yard. of my family's house, the Locket Farm. That's right. And so I actually went and visited that site and I met the man that lives in the house.

See, the house has been preserved. It's still riddled with bullet holes from the day of battle, but it's still there. And I met the man who lives there. And he invited me in, and I was shocked when I walked in and framed and hanging in the living room was my family genealogy. My family tree was right there. And I compare it with the notes that we had discovered. It was my family. And so then he starts telling me a little more detail about our history that he knew that we had no idea.

And he explained that some had left and gone to Kentucky, and that's the only part we knew. But then he said this. He said, some were involved in very significant historical events in the South, but some left here and went to Louisiana. And then he added this detail. He said, you know, in some cases, there was a clerical error in the handwritten ledgers, and they changed the spelling of the name and dropped one of the T's. and I was stunned when he said it. Come on. Yeah, it made me tremble when he said it.

Okay, so now Matt Lockett, you have two T's in your name, okay? Will Ford, you're telling me that this bowl was handed down through your ancestors, also named Lockett with one T. With one T. And where would your family come? they were slaves in Lake Providence, Louisiana. That's where the kettle came from. And so when Matt told me this,

I pulled out our research and had a genealogist, look up on research before, and he found a man named Isaac Lockett. He shows up in 1870 census. He's believed him up, be my oldest known family member. And in that census, he's 90 years old. It's 1870, so this is probably the place in Lake Providence, Louisiana, where he was a slave. But in that document, Eric, it said that he was originally from,

Virginia. We did our research and the few Lockett families that were there in Virginia was Matt's family. We did another year and a half worth of research and here's what we learned, Eric. We learned that it was Matt's family who owned my family where this kettle pot came from. So think about it. Here's my family praying for the ending of slavery. And then all the way up at the farmhouse or the people used to own them, slavery comes to an inner front yard.

But then because he's the God of the past and the future, and he loves to heal history and he loves to move the chain forward. He connects two people from those same family lines, Matt and I, together, so we can war against injustice in our day and cry out for awakening in our time. If anybody is listening to this,

if you need proof of the existence of God in history, if you need proof that God wants real racial reconciliation in the name of Jesus, I don't know where else you could get a more, amazing story. This story is so extraordinary. It's kind of, it's like something I thought, it's like made up by Jonathan Khan. You know Jonathan

Khan. He's a friend, right? He's on his program. He's a good storyteller. It's a little too perfect. It's a little too perfect. It doesn't, I don't believe it. Can you just make it a little messier? I mean, the idea and have you guys, when was it that you discovered this

final stunning piece of the puzzle? Probably about five, years ago is when everything started coming together and we found other documents where we just we were like 70% for sure but then when we had these other pieces to come together then we knew that we knew that this is definitely the story but here's the thing that's so powerful thinking about this happened to two guys who are led by dreams to the place where dr king said and is i have a dream speech, I have a dream that one day the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave on us will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood. So maybe the dream speech wasn't just poetic.

Maybe it was something prophetic about it. Maybe there's this dream king called the King of Kings who has this father who still answering this prayer of John 17. Father, I pray that they will be one so that your glory could come so that the world would believe. Maybe God hadn't forgotten about the prayers of all those who have gone before us. You know, I just think we're in a place where God wants to heal this amazing divide in our nation and hadn't forgotten about the dream he's given. This is, I mean, you know, you forgive me for constantly editorializing and annotating, but I just want people to get this, how crazy this is. Yeah. What you're saying is that there were prayers offered during slavery times, okay?

There's no doubt God hears every prayer, and he certainly hears the prayer. of those suffering under slavery who have a master who hates when they pray. And they, the slaves, love to pray because they know God loves them and died for them and hears their prayer and will answer their prayers. And the idea that God plays this out through the decades and history in such a way to lead us to understand how he feels about this. And to lead the two of you, I mean, when you say, Dr. King, you know, gave his I have a dream speech and maybe it was prophetic.

You know there's no maybe. There's no maybe. This is as prophetic and crazy and clear as it gets. We're going to go to another break, but we're going to have you back in just a moment. This is genuinely miraculous stuff. And it is a tremendous joy to have you on this program and that potentially millions will hear this totally miraculous story. We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to Matt Lockett and Will Ford. This is a completely miraculous story that you two are telling. Let me ask you a question because you said it was around five years ago

that you put together the final piece of this crazy, crazy puzzle. Have you written a book about this? Have you, you know, appeared? Because I had not heard this story until somewhat recently. Yeah, we did. wrote a book called The Dream King. And when did that come out? You know, a little over a year ago.

But, you know, Eric, you pointed out that, you know, it's been five years. See, here's the thing about this story is when we made that discovery, we didn't jump at trying to tell this too quickly because, you know, it needed to cook a little bit more. See, something started setting in once we made that discovery, there was a reality that is hard to articulate that began to hit us in a new way. And Will, why don't you share that? Oh, yeah. So, you know, with all the buzz and everything goes off and they, oh, my God, what a God story. Then that's about five months, Eric, it was like this. Hold up. Your people owe my people. And I have stories in my family of a slave being beat to death. And now I have a face connected to

that pain, connected to that story, connected to that everything that has. happened to my family, and it happens to be the face of somebody that I love. And so I'm now trying to forget how my friend was ever my enemy for my family, if you understand what I'm saying. Now I finally had to have a face for those stories. And so I had to go to a whole new level of forgiveness, even in my own life. Thankfully, God gave us two years of relationship before we started learning all this, because it was actually kind of hard on a personal level. And as we began to work it out, we talked about it, but we did a lot of soul searching ourselves. But I had to deal with my own unforgiveness issues once again, and I'm glad I did.

Well, look. So it was just about a year ago that we actually put this into a book. Right. And it's called The Dream King. Who's the publisher of that book? New type publishing. Okay. I'm so glad you put this in a book because, you know, once people hear this program,

they're going to want to hear more and we don't have an infinite amount of time. But this is mind-blowing stuff. This is mind-blowing stuff. There's so many pieces we haven't even unpacked. I mean, the idea that, you know, you're saying to me, Will, that you struggle with unforgiveness, it's very, very unpopular right now to talk about blacks, forgiving white. We don't talk about forgiveness in this culture.

We talk about I'm right. You're a jerk. You did this. You owe me. We don't talk about Jesus commanding forgiveness. And the fact of the matter is, if you are a Christian, you don't have a choice. You've got to deal with that, right?

When we pray the Lord's prayer, Jesus said, Jesus said, you know, that if we want to be forgiven and we do, then we must forgive. Oh, that's not easy. When we're talking about stuff like what you're talking about, that is not easy. So for you to live this and to God to weave this together between the two of you in this way, I mean, honestly, it's just mind blowing to me. Yeah, it's at the tip of the iceberg of the story. I mean, Matt, tell them about the abolitionists in your family real quick and how to house between both armies. So I had been, you know, listening to the story of the kettle for a decade, and then to find out that my connection to the story was to that of the slave owner.

That was really hard, and I had to go to a whole new level of humility in coming into, you know, a realization with that fact. But here's the thing. God's a great storyteller. That wasn't the end of the story. Yes, we had slave owners in my family, but we found out in the previous war, in the Revolutionary War, revival had also come to that same area in Virginia, and one of my other ancestors, Daniel Lockett, got caught up in that revival and became a Methodist circuit writer. And that's significant because at that time in history, all the circuit writers were also abolitionists. And see, this is the thing, is I believe that the church is uniquely positioned for,

what is happening in America right now because we believe in redemption. We believe that God can take a really, really tragic storyline and he can actually turn it and use it for good. He's the only one that can do that, but to find out that my family also had a connection to abolition, that's, that's, it was revelatory for me, but that's important for us to understand that America also has a redemptive storyline. Yeah, so in all my family is where he says, yeah, yeah, we're going to We have this name called generational curses and generational blessings. They represent these dominated themes of storylines. And just like Madden and his family had slave owners, but he also had abolitionists.

And that's in all of our families. I think what God is shouting to America right now is this. What storyline do we want to be a part of? The healing or the hurt, the blessing or the curse, what storyline do we want to be a part of right now? Well, you know, the idea of forgiving, the idea of blacks, forgiving whites. I said this earlier, that is very hard for a lot of people. And it takes voices like yours will because we need leadership on this. You know, when I interviewed the folks from South Carolina who had a white man come into their church and murder them, okay?

And when you hear them tell the story of publicly forgiving this man, it is completely mind-blowing. And we all know it is only Jesus. It is only the God of the Bible that enables up to do what is completely impossible. I want to ask both of you. So right now, I mean, you're doing this program right now, but do you go together and speak in churches? We're living in such divided times. What are you doing right now? Go ahead, Matt.

Yeah, Will and I are telling the story to anyone who will listen right now. I believe that it's a story for such a time as this. And so, you know, we've been going around for the last few years telling it in conferences, churches, really, honestly, anybody who will listen, a few civic settings. We've told it in some citywide gatherings. And it has this stunning quality, whether you're a Christian or not, that there is another narrative, a meta-narrative, that God is writing over this nation. And, you know, it's an opportunity for us to come into contact with that and to, you know, respond to it. Yeah, it's going to take a united church to heal a divided nation. And God is using this story to bring people to the table and to bring people into the conversation and connect them to

the unfinished business of that dream of Dr. King. I have a dream that one day the sons are former slaves, sons of former slave owners sitting at that table of brotherhood. We're here to tell America. Listen, there's still room at the table. It's so beautiful. We're going to have a final segment. And folks, the book is The Dream King. I honestly hope that lots of people will buy this book, share this. The Dream King, Matt Lockett, Will Ford, chosen by God for such a time as this. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, welcome back.

I was just saying to my guest, Matt Lockett and Will Ford, how annoyed I am that I cannot talk to them longer today. So I need to have both of you back, ASAP, to continue the story. In the meantime, people will buy the Dream King and share this video with everyone they can think of because we're living in insane times. We have anarchists and Marxists and angry people and criminals mixing in with peaceful protesters. And we're living in a time of such division right now. I'm just guessing that there are a lot of people that don't want to hear Will Ford what you have to say, that you're not on board, you know, with the Black Lives Matter organization or movement.

It doesn't sound like you are. I understand where they're coming from when they say Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter 2. I understand even what people will say with all Lives Matter. But I believe like God is saying, drill down deeper, life matters. Because when the people that we cannot see can become optional, it's an ever. There's some of the other people that we can see can also be dehumanized and marginalize even to the place of elimination like we saw with George Floyd. And so the life issue is really key to bring in and restoring dignity, the value, the inherent value that we all have. I want to say real quick, I think everybody listening to this program agrees that Black Lives Matter.

I'm talking about the movement, the organization. Now, that's where this gets so confusing. You understand what I'm saying. I know exactly what you're saying. The movement and some of the people behind it or whatever. And all the other agendas that have crept into it and the billions of dollars get paid to different people to do certain things that's connected to that whole agenda with Intifa and all that. But listen, the good news is this. God is in the healing.

He's going to heal this nation. He wouldn't have brought Matt and now together with such a crazy story. If he wasn't going to be part of, we weren't going to be a point. of releasing healing into this nation right now. He's doing that right now. We're seeing amazing things happening across the country, and we're so excited to be on here, Eric. Let me see a website.

If you want to get the book to is Dreamstreamcom. It's Dreamstreamco.com. Go there so you can get the book. I know Amazon, they have, they're kind of running low on the stock, but go to our website and check it out. All right, let me say it again. Dreamstreamco.com. Dreamstreamco.com.

Look, I wrote a book about miracles. I believe in miracles. I have seen many miracles in my life. And I just want to be real clear. The story of the two of you meeting and coming together in this whole thing, going back generations, this is a miracle. This is God working sovereignly in history to bless us, to lead us to revival,

to lead us to redemption and reconciliation. And this is God working in history in a visible way through the two of you. And I know must be humbling and strange. You say, Lord, why me? The Lord says, don't ask. I love you. And I choose whom I will choose. It's amazing to me.

But this is a miracle. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is I want people to know God is at work. He has not forgotten about America. He has not forgotten about these divisions. He is alive. and here's the big one. He answers prayers because everything we're talking about now is the answer of the prayers of black people enslaved in this country,

praying to Jesus and abolitionists on the other side, praying to Jesus. And look what God has done. It's just my privilege, gentlemen and my brothers to hear your story. I'm sorry we're out of time, but we will have you back as soon as possible. I hope people will get the Dream King, the book, the website, Dreamstreamco.com. Gentlemen, God bless you.

Thank you. God bless you. Thank you so much. We are raising money for food for the poor this month. Food for the poor is an organization that we have vetted. We work with them. They feed the poorest of the poor in third world countries right now because of COVID. Folks in Haiti and Guatemala and countries like that are struggling even more than they were before.

The phone number is 844-863, Hope, 844-863. Hope. If you go to Metaxistalk.com, you can see everything. Thank you.